Music SERVER or OVERPRICED Computer ?? !!
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2024
- #audiophile #audio #hifi
Heres more TRUTH coming from the HiFi TRIBE...
Dont believe the HYPE !! Buy whatever you like, but be AWARE of what these things are..
JOIN the HiFi TRIBE at 11stereo.com, its FREE !
Another cool video. Ive been running a modest SoTM SMS 200 Neo - Upgraded Linear Power Supply with a half decent power cable and I tweeked it with a couple of Fuses and its sounding Fantastic into a DAC with Linear Power Supply : )
A server is a pc that serves files to other devices across your local network. A streamer streams music. My server is a mini pc with all my ripped CDs. I rip CDs on the same machine. The mini pc cost $160 and the usb DVD drive I use to rip CDs cost $25. My streamers are a Wiim Pro Plus in my office and an Eversolo DMP-A6 on my main system. Paying more than $200 for a music server is crazy. Bits are bits.
well, your PC could be a streamer too if you install the apps to receive Spotify, Airplay, Roon endpoint, ecc. The only difference between a server and a streamer is the lack of an internal library in the streamer. Both are computers and both use basically the same software (linux, samba, ecc).
In fact, most commercial streamers are Raspberry Pis running a customized image of volumio.
As Mikey says in the video, there's nothing special about streamers/servers, they all are linux based PCs running standard software... some of them add some propietary app to control it from the phone but that's all.
Hello, nice to see you….thanks for all the info
Sweet vindication yet again. Thank-you Sir.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
I like the clean look ❤ (the hairdo and lighting). Basements are funky.
Like your style. You always catch yourself and keep it cool! Enjoying your videos...
Thanks Scott..
No don't calm down. I love the passion. You speak the truth people need, please just keep it coming. I knew the servers were at a huge "Audiophile" markup I'm glad you exposed it so thoroughly.
Thanks
I like when you get fired up! Someone got in your head telling you to calm down at times. Bring it!
Right on !
Hot head are you? That's not a good way to live cobber. CD's. Any and all other "sources" are crappola. @@OCDHIFiGuy
we tune in for your opinion, what Linux distro do you use on the old music streamer/server?
Mikey, I saw one of your older videos testing an Antipodes K50. Mind chiming in on that front? I hear good things but that can be said about almost any product that doesn’t suck.
Good video. As you say, where the rubber hits the road, my dac i have more than 30x less invested in compared to my steaming computer. Silly, maybe, but It’s an easy thing to say yes to while I decide on other front end purchases. Probably leaving a lot of performance on the table with this imbalance but impressed how far I have been able to push it. I figure when my new dac is on the rack the improvement will be spectacular. 80 20 split is hard to swallow I guess
Mikey!! Keep bringing the audio pain for the shills!
@OCDHIFiGuy Mikey, does an old iPhone count as a streamer if I connect the iPhone to a good dac?
It counts, won't get you the best sound
Yep.
don’t hold back Mikey you had me lol
I agree with you. I found different streaming transports do have a different volume, amount of gain and volume play. The actual quality - how natural, detail, etc, doesn't change with streaming transports and depends on the DAC. Spend 80% on the DAC is 💯 spot on. THANK YOU - The Dude ✌🏽
I use the headphone jack on my iPad plugged into the AUX on my preamp. Boom 💥 done!
you have not said what to use , download instead Roon ?
Humm
1. HDPlex case $400
2. HDPlex 500w Linear PSU $800
3. JCAT XE USB card $1000
4. JCAT XE Ethernet card $1000
5. Motherboard $250
6. RAM $200
7. CPU $400
8. SSD $200
9. Software including HQplayer, Roon, Audiophile Optimiser $800+
10. Labour cost $xx
11. OCXO clock upgrades for USB card $1,500
Suddenly, building your own doesn’t seem so cheap. I’m not knocking this approach as I’ve done the same thing and achieved even better results by using two PCs. one Roon core and other for the Roon end point
Though I dislike Roon 😮
BluOS interface is friendly
BS Node N130 is affordable
Lol. You can use an embedded MOBO which takes out -$400. EThernet card not needed -1000. SOTM usb card -$600, one software NOT HQ player and LINUX -$500 ... so it's much lower
Absolutely there are different levels of acceptability depending on the calibre of one’s rig. I used to have such a streamer as you noted and it sounded inferior to my CD transport. Note, my CD transport and music streamer are both connected to the same DAC to help provide a valid comparison, but acknowledge the mileage may vary with others
@@virenkhatri7720 thank you for bringing some clarity in this bullshit shower
@@OCDHIFiGuyPink Faun Ultra OCXO USB car is $1800. You would be amazed how much better it sounds than basic SOtM. The SOtM card with separate SOtM clock (+$1000) and separate PSU for the clock (+$600) is better, but still no match for the Pink Faun. $1000 Jcar falls somwhere in between basic SOtM and PF. I do agree you can go with a MoBo with integrated CPU (J5040 for example), but that is only an option if you don't want to use CPU intensive stuff like DSD upsampling and you library is less than say 10k albums.
My music server disc spins at 33.3RPM.
Nice.
My 33.3's went into the trash bin in 1984. The world changed forever. CD & Apple Macintosh. What a joyous year it was!@@OCDHIFiGuy
The best with those discs is that they never sound the same between each spin.
That might be a relief for many when when we can get variations.
In this digital world precision repeatable that always is the same may be so tiresome as if nothing is happening.
Just the same, same. 😅
@@AmazonasBiotop Yes especially speakers are subject to continual environmental changes which would stop any two sessions from sounding exactly alike! With optical media having significant shorter life span and a higher error rate than vinyl.
@@glenncurry3041
I don't really understand.
Why do you throw now speakers under the bus?! 😊
Yes, of course speakers will have the biggest "error" in the sound reproduction.
And yes if you put the the speakers in different locations in the room or in different rooms then they will sound differently.
But all that has nothing to do with anything when it is a CONSTANT. 🤔
We have the SAME room and speakers in a specific location.
(that is the constant)
Then we play something digital or something analog.
You can put a CD player with one and same disc on repeat.
That disc will sound the same hour after hour, day after day and months and months.
Until the day the CD player breaks it would up to that point just sound the same as day one. (no physical contact only light hits the fully reflective layer on the CD.)
A LP is a physical media were we drag the hardest stone that man knows of in a grove of soft PVC.
We can say that different RIAAs and DACs is their equivalent.
So the CD transport with their different error corrections that don't allow any uncorrectable errors as output (otherwise it is not a CD when it dont meet the red book standard.)
The transport in the LP is the TT. There is NO correction whatsoever anywhere.
It is that you get what you get depending in so uncountable factors and combinations of the factors. (all of those is worth a post of itself..)
That is why I meant that play after play of a LP will not sound the same. 😅
Why and what make you knowing that optical has "higher error rate" than vinyl?!
For example a LP pressing plant has a QA department.
They take a LP direct from the LP press it can be a small number of test pressings or whatever just new records with 0 plays.
They put The LP record on a TT and capture the sound in a computer. They ALSO have the data file that they feeding the cutter head when the lathe cut the lacquer.
Now the QA personnel can compare what they had going into the cutting head AND also the captured sound and end result of what all the process steps in the LP pressing plant has distorted, changed and influenced on what the end result would be!
That is what is interesting for the QA personnel when they want to catch to big deviations in the pressing plant PRODUCTION!
So I know and seen so easy example as a new virgin unplayed LP with click and pop that were NOT there from the start. And nothing that went into the cutting head.. 😅
(this is just in the production facility and all the other "issues" and variables that is involved when the LP gets to a consumer.) 😅 👍
As you now concrete can see and understand in that small example that the LP is the one with higher error rate! (and we don't need to talk about cleaning, washing or other silly factors when it is a 20 min old LP)
But as I said that variance is nice and relaxing in this digital world. 😅
Mikey, if I play files from a USB flash drive is that considered the server?
No, that's considered the drive. Otherwise known as storage.
I use a base model M1 MacMini that i paid about $500 for. I find it's USB output is quieter than some others and it's cheap. I click on a track on Swinsian and music comes pouring out of the speakers.
Hey Mike, agree generally, but Taiko Extreme is another story. I've seen one inside and when you look CLOSELY at the parts and topology, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see those guys at Taiko did a LOT of work on it, especially too on the software side. The parts alone are much more than $4K minimum. I think them charging $25K is pushing it, I wouldn't pay that, but $10K yes. Perhaps there is a market there for someone to undercut Taiko by $10K and still have a healthy profit margin.
Forget a rocket scientist. How would a computer scientist identify the improvement vs say a wiim?
they can be undercut qith a 100 dollar usb dac.all this garbage
Agreed, a Taiko should be $10K. The new one coming out is $60K from what I hear... lol. Okie 👍 dokie.
The BOM of Taiko server is significantly more than $4k. Lots of ppl on Computer Audiophile tried to make clones. The case itself is $2k. MoBo and CPUs are close to $2k. The USB and Network cards are $2k EACH. Then there is the memory (LOTS of it), huge PSU and ultra expensive Optane SSDs. We are talking about 10+k in parts. That is 33% of retail in BOM alone - which is higher than the industry standard, which is 15-20%.
Might be one of your best videos
Thanks David !
For me it's important to have the best and cleanest power going on in your computer. A power supply noted for it's low noise and PCi bus power filter and a USB add in bit that filters USB power for it's plugs and a proper power cord all made noticeable improvements. This is my modest effort to improve my basic computer hardware for audio. And for sure I do not expect it to compare to your 25K unit...
Pardon me Bayard,
I see on ebay a generic "HiFi" branded PCi bus power filter for $63. This is simply deposited into an expansion slot as the SoundCard's power whip is connected to it? It's that easy? Thanks.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
There is a card, probably the one you are talking about, that goes into a PCIe slot and basically filters the power on the PCI bus. There is also a card that takes a slot but plugs into a USB header on the motherboard, and it is for filtering the power on the USB connection. They both made audible improvements in my computers sound output, which is through a Xonar soundcard, a classic old gen 2 stereo card with the opamps of my choice, The sound is as good as any DAC I can afford...@@TriAmpHiFi
exactly what I said when I saw audiophile servers costing $9k c'mon... $9k for an intel Atom pc i can build for 80 bucks?!?
In a nutshell
One CD player. Rotel RCD1572MKII for US$1,199.99 = all anyone will ever need. Cheers from Australia.@@OCDHIFiGuy
I would love a Roon replacement
That's why I won't upgrade from my windows vista pc that motherboard has toslink input and output
I bought the Audiolab 6000N streamer because I was going to use my external DAC anyway It uses DTS Play-Fi and I only use Qobuz No display, but has programmable buttons and is rack-mountable I stream via my smart phone Less that $1,000 I've always wondered if I could do better, without diminished returns
If you would be so kind Jack,
Could you give me any insight into why a person would consider buying any modern streamer that has no HDMI Video Out? Why would one do this?
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
. As a music lover, I can't have a streamer that can't bring me a couple great performances like these two, for a minuscule example;
Candy Dulfer - Pick Up The Pieces (Part 1) or
Ain’t Nobody - Leonid & Friends
I use an Intel Nuc with a seperate renderer/streamer. I cant see any reason to spend more.
There u go..
An RPI4 with an LPS is a great value.
and a fifo or atleast a i2s isolator
There r some reasons for a price hike
Passive cooling without a fan don’t makes no noise. But then it needs bigger cooling block.
I guess the only explanation for some of the prices is the support side. For instance if you charged double whatever you did helping people with support would be less annoying. However that’s up to the consumer to decide if it’s worth it, and companies should still be alittle more transparent as to what actually is inside. Great video Mikey
Agreed. Thx !
Roon just made itself a Chip in the Game to get Paid! Thanks Mikey for helping us get around it!✌️
Boom !
One high end brand used the A10 processor found in the Apple IPad !!
Don’t calm down Mike. Be yourself no matter what they say. It’s how you weed out the assholes. The people that really like you don’t care how you are 🤙🏼
Cd transport or turntable for me
You'll change eventually
Thank you sir
All the best
OCD-HI-FI-GUY
Keep this subject alive, i much prefer using a computer based system.
What would be great is if you could run a side by side demo of a computer versus one of these glamorous streamers.
Thank you for your hard work 👍
I have been building computers for ten years I have built thousands of them. It doesn't take much of a computer to just play music. Seems to me the way to really sell it would be with some type of propriety software. You could even use an embedded mother board. I'm running the poor man special My CDs are burned to the computer just using iTunes ran out by USB to an ifi Zen Air DAC. It makes my music easier to listen to, so I listen more often.
You mean embedded? Of course.. the software is worth $300
I'm glad I got to where I was happy with my system. I tell my wife my system is cheap and she laughs. How can 15k be cheap?.......if she only knew
Innuos, as one example, has custom mother boards in all current units right up the line. Some are doing more than others, that's for sure.
Oh. The brand where you pay another $6K for a proper computer power supply ?
Steamrollen flamethrower
The second one.
i use a lenovo laptop with aurdirvana orgin sounds good to me...🙂
There you go
yes, a music server is a computer, no doubt. but in fact, different music servers sounds different! i made extensive listening tests. and in my case (with a modified 40’000 euro linn klimax organic dsm networt player) on my 700’000 euro high end system, the sound quality was always worse with fiber cables compared with audioquest „vodka“ ethernet cables (testet in many ways). and also roon server was sounding dramatically worse than any other testet server. finally i was choosing the amazing sounding, but very affordable naim unity core as my music server. - only my 50 cents -
Mikey, if I stream Qobuz from an old iPhone to a decent dac am I good to go?
No
@@borisbobowski628 but the streamer is just a computer as a phone is a computer. Mikey said put 80% of $ towards the dac. Am I wrong? Did I misunderstand?
@@j.wellness7771dedicated streamers are far better than an iPhone. Don’t get it twisted.
@@YouSoundButtHurteven if I download the file (music) to my phone? What you gentlemen are saying seems counter to what Mikey said in the video
You are good. You may want to investigate/pay for a music player app on your phone that ensures bit perfect output like UAPP or BitPerfect.
I realize you modified it, but what’s the name of your case? It would match my Niagara 3000.
HDPlex
Source is really important, especially once you reach a certain level, and by source in digital I mean streamers, servers, switches, reclockers etc. The good devices are usually pricy. Anyone who doesn't agree with that has not tested enough or has other reasons to say otherwise.
All that crap is not needed if you just buy a higher level DAC. Anyone that says otherwise, has limited experience.
@@OCDHIFiGuy that is just not true, and anyone with a little experience with trying different gear would know that.
Roon Nucleus with a S booster is good enough then, and it's focused on audio.
Shortly means ….. when?.. Let me know that’s why I don’t stream to messed up & confusing. Thanks Mickey😊
What’s your thoughts on what jay audio lab is doing?
What's he doing ??
Good stuff. Don't worry about being too 'emphatic' in your presentation. Personally I wouldn't care if you went 'Sam Kineson' on us..
I appreciate that!
Thieves gonna steal…..What can you do except not be a victim yourself? ✌🏻
Servers make a massive difference!
Not when you have a world-class DAC.
@@OCDHIFiGuy your world class DAC didn't sound world class at Capital Audiofest, I wonder why?
@@OCDHIFiGuy Yes, but with an ethernet connection. Ethernet sounds much better than USB, much less noise.
So why do they sound different? Can we make these kids to our dedicated computers?
Squirrel much? Excuse me? I said "SQUIRREL, MUCH!?"
Eleven Ka-CHOW-SOND Dolla Streamer? ...I just want to hear that Playback Designs goodness.
It's good shit Allen...
Graphic User Interface
BluOS is user friendly 😊
Great video. I'd go 90/10.
Fair enough...
The advantage of ROON is that you can run it on cheap hardware, no need to spend big dollars on expensive hardware with the like of melco or Aurender.
Roon is a resource pig... you actually need to run CORE on a separate computer.. fail... to me anyways...
@@OCDHIFiGuy You mean music server (Roon core) and Streamer are separates? Yes.
You don't complain that DAC and Pre amp are separates either. No deal breaker there beside the subscription is overpriced.
No we don’t want you to chill lol
Lol. Right on.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have a lot of respect in what you are doing….thanks again
I want ROON's scalp after 9 years of effing with it. Gimme! This was a good one
Dear Mr.P,
allow me the following question: in your opinion,what is the most important part in a streamer?
Thank you
The sound.
Good stuff Mikey but from one OCD guy to another........the Verastarr faceplate on your vintage server doesn't look straight and level.
It's called charachter ;-) 😉
Well played, Sir 👌🏼
WiiM pro. Plug and play under $200.
Yes let’s eliminate Rune.
11:52 Playback Designs MPD-8
Any custom build hardware, like most streamers are, has quite high costs, try to build something by yourself before bringing in wrong and false statements.
Lol. I used to sell my builds. Do your homework...
They are overpriced to all hell. Would be great to see better HiFi/HTPC products out there. Not many boxes to check really, fanless, CPU shielded in case, quality shielded power supply, and a top shelf USB card. Reasonably priced, theres still a place for a PC in the HiFi rack for power users.
Overpriced transistor radio
Sweet, got any for sale ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy Selling fast. Small crowd of audiophiles around my white van parked in the shopping centre car park
A server would be better without a sound card.
Unless it's a player as well.
Overpriced computer.
Sotm is making their own mother boards. Be more exact and less arogant. Thx.
It's Arrogant, Nancy...
@@OCDHIFiGuy😀You are so funny
ROON Sucks!
Lol. The evil empire!!
Audiophile Junkie wanted $3k +😮
For what model?
Home built, his pyramid design with blinky lights @@labalo5
Which means his BOM to retail ratio was even lower than Taiko.