Well 10 to 15 years ago analog cameras was very cheap on ebay, but then a trend of reviving using film came and prices of analog cameras sky rocket. I do not understand all the fuzz about using film ! I used film for several decades both as a professional and for hobby, since 2007 I have only used digital Cameras and I have never been more happy as a photographer ! I am also happy not to use any of the chemicals required for film !!!
If the prices are going back closer to what they were prior to Covid, I wouldn’t call this a crash but a correction. Until I see the big used gear retailers coming up with bigger discounted sales (eg KEH had 20% sales in the past), I would definitely not call that a crash.
I’m in Canada, and I have 13 Nikon film cameras , and 5 high end Canon bodies. Film cameras have always been a big part of my experience and will always be. I don’t mind paying for film and processing. Just makes me slow down and really enjoy the process.
I traded my M6 last year before the new release for a new MP and as you correctly pointed the old M6 was becoming unreliable so pretty happy. There is an obsession with sharpness in 2023 but film is about character and mood so sometimes the old lenses can create a better image than the newer ones. My advice for film shooters with the cost of film is to shoot B+W and develop and scan your own negatives. You are more in control and much cheaper. Cheers and regards.
I feel like that’s something a lot of film Leica owners don’t talk about. The fact that the camera needs to be serviced regularly or it’s just a pretty paperweight.
Film camera prices are through the roof unless you try and sell your used gear to a camera store or one of the online dealers. They'll tell you, "Yeah man, there's, like, not much demand for this stuff right now and these things were really not the best quality, I'll give you $25 for the camera and all the lenses." Walk into the store the next week, and you'll see them selling the exact same camera in the same condition for around $200.
I bought a Nikon FE at a local used camera shop for $250. I know I could have gotten it cheaper on eBay but this one was pristine and had 30 day guarantee and I supported local business and community in process so I'm cool with it. Plus I met some great people and they introduced me to local film community and developers which was awesome so I was more than happy. Being out of film for 15+ years this was welcome help to get my journey started with film. Plus I love that local shop.
Solid analysis!! I'm in NZ and have noticed pretty much the same thing. Gear just sitting there not getting sold. I sold my Mamiya 645 1000s recently for reasons you've mentioned, increasing cost of film and general living expenses. Plus I needed to invest in a mirrorless for CZcams so I think I made the right decision (albeit a very difficult one). I actually made a bit of money on the Mamiya but that was partly to do with getting a $350 USD refund from the japanese ebay dealership when I complained about something!! I'm now down to a Nikon FE and Olympus OM2 for film cameras and will be keeping them. Appreciate the video mate :)
Your video is spot on! I have been saying this for about a year. We are going to start seeing more people gravitating to analog style digital cameras. I doubt I would ever get 650.00 out of my YashicaMat 124G that I bought and had CLA’ed.
Yes I agree there is a lot of high end film gear for sale but not selling in the UK.I went to a large camera fair recently and noticed a lot of Leica gear for sale. It was still there when the fair closed. There is a big difference between collectors and users. The users will not pay the high prices.
In Germany I do more often see Kodak Gold and Ultramax remaining in the shelfs of local stores. No wonder at around 8-9€ per roll. I think the big film boom is over.
You are so right, the price of film and film processing has gotten stupid. After shooting digital for the past 20 years, its kinds hard to justify the film wait. This is 2023, digital is the way to go. I still own a couple of film cameras. But I only shoot a couple of rolls per year. THANKS for your post.
The bubble is definitely bursting. The cost of film and processing is only going to continue to rise from the already crazy high levels. At the same time, disposable incomes are being squeezed. Which means fewer and fewer people will be able to justify shooting film as a hobby. Reduced demand for film cameras from people who would buy them to use just leaves the collectors / speculators and they will only want the ultra high-end rarities. In that scenario, prices for most film cameras will fall. Especially those that inflated most dramatically like the most hyped point and shoots (whose electronic components will start to fail in massive numbers as they age , rendering them unrepairable paperweights). It’s basic economics.
Great Video Mate :) Yeah man I’m actually seeing both the film and digital camera market dropping (2nd Hand) I’m in Australia too and yeah I just don’t think people have the “extra” cash to spend on gear right now :) I think you are spot on…
100% agree with the first point about the camera not mattering very much. Photography is 90% talent and 10% hardware, and once you reach a certain lens quality then it's really a case of diminishing returns.
Film cameras can still be bought at a bargain price. Recently, I bought a Minolta 7000 Maxxum for $75 with a 35-80 f/4 lens. The camera was in perfect condition and it’s fun to use. There are sellers who don’t really know what their camera is worth so those deals are still out there (I.e I got a Pentax 645N for $200 because the woman selling it didn’t think it would be of use to anyone. Eventually, all the supply of film cameras will be exhausted. What Melbourne really needs are more qualified service technicians; they would be flat out making good $$$ simply be conducting CLA’s of older film cameras and doing them in a reasonable time frame.
Stateside, I have seen many CZcamsrs buying and promoting all the cameras mentioned and for several years, buyers are only interested in those recommended by their favorite CZcamsrs. That sent prices skyrocketing. Inventory in Los Angeles is extremely low for all film cameras. I haven't seen prices dropping but the same cameras have been sitting for months. All the cameras you mentioned are sitting at around $5000. Most Americans are financially tapped out. For all the reasons you mentioned, it does seem that there is a drop in demand for film cameras. Personally, photography is a hobby for me so spending even $1000 for a camera seemed absurd. I was able to load up on my dream cameras when professionals were making the switch to digital. I do regret not picking up a Hasselblad on the cheap.
I think you’re spot on even for the US market. I remember buying a Leica M3 in 2008 for less than 1K US and still selling it for the same price a few years ago. Now with the rising prices of film and everything else, it’s like do you pay for a more expensive camera or spend that money on film? Lenses still seem to hold their value though over bodies which makes sense.
All good points!!! I am glad the used gear market is getting more realistic... is a 50 year old camera worth a mortgage payment??? If it goes down to a night out, you may be more able to afford something!!! I, like you, will buy whatever Pentax puts out to support new film cameras!!!
I agree, same market softness here in NorCal-a Contax 645 w/ 80mm and 140mm lenses has been price-dropped successively for weeks and currently lists for an unheard of low $2850. Even in 2013 when I returned to film, this kit was commanding $4000. One thing about FE/FMs, I hate their shutter actions, they feel and sound weak. It’s why I always mated them to MD-12 motors because somehow the shutters felt sturdier. Just a personal foible. They’re great cameras!
I am set I already have my Hasselblad 503 CW and Nikon F3hp and I will until I die. Also loving my little Olympus 35mm 38-105mm point and shoot. I have not shopped for a new camera in years. Maybe I can find some lenses at a good price today.
That is mostly true here the USA too. The premium brands like Hasselblad and Leica are still holding their value but most others have come down a little. Some items are sitting there in the market without moving. Just 18 months ago a Nikon 35Ti was right at $1000USD but recently I’ve seen them for under $800USD but the Nikon 28Ti is still up over $1000USD. As for film if you do some shopping and are willing to try something other than Kodak or Ilford there are some reasonably priced choices out there. Processing is another story if you do color but B/W can be done without much in the way of a darkroom and scanned with a digital camera if you don’t have an enlarger system
This is interesting. I used to own a ton of film camera 35mm pns and pentax 67 , with tons of film but now I noticed this camera or medium does not change my feel with photography so I decided to go back to a full frame digital camera and adapter for old lens. Honestly( for me) , film or not is doesn't matter.
Been shooting film for years. In my opinion, Film still has an advantage over digital if sharpness is not your priority. Film is just overpriced. I’m glad I was able to shot film again when I did. Hopefully film prices will become reasonable.
I quite film a couple of years ago because I could foresee this. Film cameras were way overpriced for something that could break tomorrow, film was rising and stocks reducing. Now that it has dropped somewhat might pick up another Nikon film camera and bang a few rolls through again. Im glad I sold my RZ67 when I did though even though I really miss that camera.
Good insight... There is definitely a shift happening in the second hand market here in the US. Doesn't sound directly parallel, but I've been selling since 2012, and the last few years have seen hundreds of new sellers selling film gear(all severely overpriced), and I'm slowly seeing them disappear one by one...
Hey Joey! Long time so see man, hope the family is all going well! I know what having kids does to your CZcams schedule 😂 hope your at least getting some waves 🌊
Hi, I see also the price crash in the second hand market in Europe since some months… Almost nobody from the collectors want to talk about because they will loose a lot of money and if the hipsters hear it’s not ‘cool’ anymore it will be even more drop the prices…
I sell film cameras for a living and we have similar situation in Europe- 1. people don't have money anymore for expensive gear 2. pros gave up shooting paid gigs on medium format because of the film cost 3. chinese collectors stopped buying because of poor economy situation 4. prices on hyped gear (Contax T3 etc) topped last year and soon all those cameras will die. 5. color 35mm film isn't cheap anymore so kids are no longer interested (they moved to old digicams). Of course it's not like the market collapsed overnight, and used M6 Leicas for 1000$ won't happen again, but it's last call to catch the hype train and get your money back (unless you overpayed heavily it's still perfectly doable). PS I'm waiting for the new Pentax too!
Off loaded most of my 35mm P&S during the mania. But at the same time I was purchasing digital cameras for peanuts. Starting to see the digicam market here in Australia pick up momentum 🚀
I bought an RB67 Pro SD for ~400USD with a lens and back recently. Glad I undercut the market by about 50% but people aren’t as lucky. Hopefully market prices start dropping across the board so some higher end cameras will be slightly more enticing to buy into.
Great thoughts! I think for pure film gear, e.g. film camera bodies, point and shoots etc the prices will settle now as the cost of actually shooting film continues to rise. Considering a roll of Portra now costs over $30 AUD, the viability of continuing to shoot film in any significant quantities is very much questioned. I think camera lenses that can be used on digital bodies could still hold some value. My 2 cents worth, invest in lenses. Buy cheaper film bodies, e.g. a contax g1, Nikon FE...if it stops working it stops working but you can enjoy it for the time being. Nikon, Leica lenses can be enjoyed on film and digital and that is really a safer bet at the moment.
Luckily, i bought most of my film cameras before the hype. I think a lot of classic cameras will hold a certain value, especially these working without a battery. The ultimate hype cameras like the XPan and these electronic point and shoots had and have to loose again on the second hand market. It makes no sense to buy a used camera for 4000€ which can break after a short time of use and are irreparable because of it's electronics.
I live in the USA and in the last month, purchased a MINT condition F6 and grip and just today, a Mint condition F5. I have no plans to sell either camera (due to my age and the fact that I grew up with film) and plan to use them until the end of my life. I must admit that film costs and the processing costs make the process of using film a much more expensive deal. Still, I love FILM, especially B & W! I paid less than $500 for the mint F5 and did so because an F5 saved my life in combat in Afghanistan. I agree with you that selling now is probably a loss for folks. That said, I applaud PENTAX for their announcement that they will manufacture new film camera bodies. Many photography students here in the USA are required to shoot both film and digital and they are grabbing up gear and depleting the stocks in local camera stores.
I made a video about the last film camera I planned on purchasing, then sold it cause I wasn’t using it much. Now I’m investing in digital Leica M to shoot for fun alongside my m6. Keeping my film camera collection for sentimental reasons but I also didn’t spend a ton of money on them, they were mostly purchased back in 2018/2019. US second hand market is currently flooded with cameras and they are starting to come down in price slowly but surely.
I bought an M6 for £1440, used it for 3 years. Sold it for £2500. Same time I bought a Pentax 67 for £450 sold it for £1200. Now I shoot with a Canon 300V and 50mm 1.4...Happy days 👌
I’m can’t believe what people were paying for Canon AE1P and Pentax K1000 bodies . $150+. What not buy a Nikon F100 for the same price? Heck N90s for $50. People are ignorant of what available out there. Especially the 90s camera bodies like EOS1n and Nikon F8008s which you can buy cheap and will last. I wanted an FM3a but the prices went from $350-$400 five year ago to $1000. Insane. No thanks. I’ll shoot my FM2n and FE2. Both I purchased in like new condition for $150 a piece. Forget old Pentax cameras like the ME Super or Super Program. They were never built to last this long. No part available. I’ll buy the new Pentax.
That`s called influence my friend. Those camera are well know and widely available. Researching film cameras for the first time ain`t easy. A lot of cameras, a lot of gears around, it`s difficult to choose one thing, and people went with what others have or suggest to buy. I was in the very same situation, but I give myself some time, and luckily went with Minolta. At the same time found a great deal for Sony A300 which was really convenient to use Minolta lenses on it. Now I secretly hope, price of the film will drop a bit in the near future.
I have a Nikon F90x (N90s in the USA) and the exposure is always spot on. That and my F4 are my go to cameras. I have manual focus Pentax and Olympus cameras and I love them but practically speaking, auto focus helps my old eyes and aperture priority means I can concentrate on what I am taking and not the technical stuff.
Definitely not wrong. I've just offloaded all my cameras because I think it'll only get worse and the bubble was a once-off event. I actually tried to sell them to a second hand camera shop and they said they weren't taking on second hand at all because people just aren't buying.
Actually just took the initiative about 5 weeks ago and started buying up an insane amount of film cameras ~ sitting at roughly 80 of them picked up in the last month and a bit. Multiple Yashica T5’s in mint condition for $200 each, Contax T2 for $800, Nikon F3 for $200, Nikon F (original with plain prism) for $100 and many more it’s insane what’s happening. I’m taking a big gamble but one i’m willing to risk. This is all Australian market and prices too!
First of all, film was (almost) never cheap. I remember back when I was a kid, the only way to afford me any descent film stock, I had to buy it in a bulk roll. So I did that for years. The only time you could get film for peanuts is from the time when digital photography was established (early 2000's), when film was slowly extinguished by slow and agonising death, until recently, when prices exploded. I'd not say film camera market is crashing, but it 's definitely slowing down. I still see local optimists here in SE Europe who are trying to sell their Praktica cameras for US $75 to 100, but high end mechanical pieces like Nikon F3 or FM2 are getting cheaper day by day...
Mamiya 7’s have always astonished me, once their electronics fail, that’s it. Expensive paper weights. Why, oh why would you spend such insane amounts. I remember them brand new on sale too.
I dont know about a bubble bursting BUT i do hope things find more of an equilibrium. I think certain vintage cameras are worth perhaps not the current prices but something maybe approaching them. but only certain ones otherwise im in full agreement. pentax and hopefully other manufactures producing film cameras again and the global back catalogue of vintage gear not being priced outside the means of the majority of sensible people are the best thing that could happen for photography at large for now. exciting times! finally!
Great news, I´m seeing lower prices for film cameras in Europe too. Waiting for the Mamiya 7 to drop... But cameras - even digital ones - aren´t really selling right now. Wanted to sell my Fuji X-T2 and ebay seems to be flooded with exactly that model atm. I´ll be just waiting it out. No need to make a loss...
I’m here in Japan, or ‘film-heaven.’ Having a Leica or any high end camera and shooting film is a ‘thing.’ And even with the digital era those unusual optically, rare, or quality name brand vintage lenses are still demanding high prices and seem to be selling. I once many years ago had a manager of a camera collector’s shop say that if they put on the floor all the M-series Leica they had in the back room prices would crash. There are a load of Leica available these days, but price have not crashed, but climbed to a level I never thought I’d never see . There are deals out there though (the normal stuff) and even the Leica L39 screw mount cameras have seen a drop to ‘deal’ status (if you think Leica), and the vintage 50-60 year old Takumar lenses adapted to a FF digital camera have been my window to new [to me] used gear with a vintage ‘look’ and affordable. The one problem with vintage gear is the repair costs. Unless it is really a high end ‘collectable’ something, it is now almost disposable gear and not worth any price unless you can do your own repair work.
Right before film made its big debut, I bought my Minolta X-570 in absolute perfect condition for $50. Just 6 months ago it was going for mid $200. Now they are less than $150. Now we just need film prices to go back down. I just had dev/scan of a roll here in southern California and it was over $20 for high res. Absolutely insane.
I built a $25 copy stand. My Olympus digital bolts to the top and 4x5 light box is underneath with the film on top. I own two film scanners and this rig blows the door off both for speed and quality.
Hi...I can understand where you are coming from. I can sense that prices has come down. But the prices will not come down uniformly for all camera. For some it will hold decent value. Yes, some camera like mamiya 7 or like, they will lose value quickly like they appreciated. Good for us.
Even for us still shooting film it is s tough market. I typically sell film gear to buy other film gear. My Hasselblad just sits on the market at a really fair price (well under what I paid 2 years ago) and because it does not sell I don't have the cash to reinvest so someone else's cool gear is also going to sit on the market as they have lost a hopeful buyer. I do also shoot digital and won't be buying more either unless my stuff sells.
Been shooting film for only 6 months but yeah makes sense people would sell things off, I’ll never have the money to buy a Leica so that’s not a worry for me, I’ve been shooting with yashica fx-3 super 2000 and spent a bit on lenses, got like 4 lenses and the camera probably haven’t even spent 1000cad, and I’ve been very happy with the photos it takes!
I've sold most of my film camera these days just have a Minolta X300s and Praktica Super TL3 in my film collection. I kept most of the lenses so I can adapt them to my mirrorless camera. I personally won't be investing any more into film due to the costs. I have 2 rolls of Kentmere Pan 100 left then that's me done with film photography. For me personally unless you go to a dark room and create a photograph all that's happening is people are just producing a digital image from photographing a negative which is in itself still a digital image. To really see the beauty of film photography, it has to be done in a dark room because an actual photograph will look vastly different to a scanned negative.
My 1st camera was a Nikon Fe with 50mm f1.8, in 1980 it cost 550$ CAN, I sold it when I upgraded to the F3HP a few years later. Still have my F3HP! Now I mainly shoot for my own pleasure with a Leica M10-R, film days are long behind me. Now I can at least scan my old slides/negatives with my Leica.
I've noticed the same thing on eBay for around 2 months now here in EU, excluding the Nikon. Nikon is going up in price quick ever since it got hyped up on CZcams a few months ago. I am of the same opinion about new film cameras and will buy the Pentax and probably Mint too.
I shot film for five years. I recently switched to digital due to the higher price of film. It’s actually been really enjoyable not having to scan my film. I’ve been getting prints made every month from the photos I’ve taken and that has also been a really awesome experience. I think all Nikon has to do is make an updated DF (smaller, lighter, full frame, possibly mirror less) so we can use all of the f mount glass with a more retro camera experience.
I think the US market has definitely cooled off. So much Stupid Money was handed out during the 'rona 'crisis' that people were doing crazy things. Lately, I've noticed some Pentax 6x7s sitting on facebook marketplace for quite a while (months). Thinking about getting one, had one back in the 80s, but just not sure I want one again. Picked up its little brother the 645, which is a great 'little' 120 camera, plus it can use lenses from my Kiev 60 SLR. I love when I can 'dual use' lenses, like my minolta AF film lenses on my Sony digitals. Don't ever anticipate getting a Leica unless it's cheap.
Interesting. In the US, at least to my observations, while film has increase in price a little, it hasn't been THAT bad of an increase. For my film shooting, I tend to stick mostly with medium format....shooting 6x6, 6x9, 6x12 and my favorite, 6x17. I haven't found that MF film has increased that much. For 35mm, I'm about to grab a reel of Vison3 500T and respool my own. I figured that will be roughly $2.50/roll or so....and for 35mm I mostly only shoot it in pano with my HorizonT or PressPan camera. Anyway...while I have noticed cameras here are getting $$$, I haven't noticed film getting that much more expensive, nor hard to get. At least in the US.
I’ll put you onto some game. Mono no aware is a indie movie or movie company in Brooklyn. They got good prices on film where they charge 70 dollars per 100ft of vision 3. It’s economically if you’re bulk loading and shooting stills. Not so much for videos.
I started with and still use the same Nikon f and set of Nikon lenses I scored on Facebook marketplace a couple years back before the boom really happened. I use those same lenses on my Z6ii now and they are almost as sharp as modern glass. The coatings are definitely their downfall though, some lens flares if you're shooting with the sun hitting the front element from the side but they're manageable with a hood.
I haven't paid much attention to the US film camera market as I faded away from film once it started getting expensive. But I see a lot of high end cameras still listed. What this is doing though is raising digital bodies up. Especially Fujifilm. I know it's also the fact Fuji discontinued a bunch of their models but a lot of film enthusiasts seem to be paying top dollar for Fuji bodies here in the US.
the biggest deal i got so far was a whole kit of a Leica IIIc with 4 different lenses, some soviet and some not, with the custom viewfinder, leather case and all for less than 500. the camera is working magnifingly and has never gave me an issue, imo that was a bargain. but i agree. here in italy the film has never got very popular for the demand but the prices for the camera have indeed been getting higher for some reason, people selling Canon A-1 for 400 bucks not even being restored, so with necessity of some intervents. ofcourse they will never sell those
I don't shoot film but sometimes when I'm out I'll see someone shooting film. I think its the college kids that are getting into film. Also I think the reason film is catching on again is people are just board and what a new look to their images.
I just picked up a Pentax 67 and figured I will probably loose money when I sell it, but that happens with digital as well. My Z6 is not worth much either.
Agreed! I’ll be selling 35mm gear for realistic, cheap prices so that I can concentrate on my return to large format and 16mm cinematography.. and afford to buy sheet film.
@@shootswithcoops Absolutely Agree, I love my Chamonix 4x5, yes it is slow and methodical but soooooo rewarding, I have been developing my own BW and then scanning with a macro lens and DONE! Great video you posted here, Cheers.
@@flyingo I don’t blame you 1 bit, LF shooting is soooo much fun, especially when developing the stuff yourself like I do, it is also soooooo rewarding. Good luck, most importantly have FUN.
I’m in the US and bought SO many film cameras in the early 2000s. I’m interested in helping new, young photographers get into film so my plan is to sell nice Nikon and other brands of cameras for at least $50 to $100 lower than the current prices to do two things; save people some money and get these beauties shooting film through them again. I’m not worried about profit because I paid less than $50 for most all of them back in 2004 or so. As a hobby I repair photographic equipment - small problems, replace light seals, etc., so the hundreds of cameras and lenses I have (yes “hundreds”) are in such good shape that I know they’ll outlive me, and probably film itself. The money I spent on most all of them isn’t “tied up” and it isn’t imperative that I make it all back. I knew going in that prices would double, triple and possibly quadruple, and they did, but if me selling a Nikon F with lens for less than $100 helps someone get into film photography, then I’m happy. Life is too short to try and get every penny you can. My biggest concern is that eBay is still the largest market, and I hate evilBay.
There is still some way to go for film camera prices. It's not feasible for manufacturer's to build a camera for example a Hasselblad 500CM for £1,100, which is what I paid in April 2024. I would guess it would need to retail for £6k plus. I have also noticed a recent shortage of available medium format cameras for sale.
Around the year 2000, Hasselblad gear was CHEAP on eBay. Remember the SMC? A few hundred. The 500mm that came in a rifle stock leather case? Nobody was buying it. So I did. Contax 645? Grabbed.
Nah not around 2000. The people shooting medium format were still shooting film at that time, including fashion photographers. Only press photographers shot dslr. Cut to 2005-2010, then Hasselblads were cheap. Bought a mint 500CM from 1991 for 650$
I'm not 100% sure, but I get the feeling the market in the UK is at least plateauing. I've been sitting on a Zeiss Contax IIa that I don't really want to sell as it's so lovely, but can't really justify owning it alongside an M2 and a IIIf (and an R6 and Nikon F3 and F4 etc..... ). The problem is I'm resisting selling in case I lose on it, but if the market is dropping, I'll need to sit tight for quite a while.
I agree, it'd be very difficult to tell the difference between a photo shot on film with a Pentax, Nikon, Canon, etc., and a much more expensive Leica M rangefinder. So why do people shoot with Leica and other expensive 35mm cameras? 1) lenses for a particular camera system 2) the experience of shooting with a particular camera. A Leica feels great in the hand and the build quality is superb. And they are quiet - instead of a sharp clack from an SLR mirror slap that can be rather loud, you get a soft click from a Leica. If I'm shooting street photography, I'd much rather shoot with a Leica M than my K1000. Of course, any rangefinder is going to be quiet. But my point still stands that the camera you use, the experience you get from the camera, can make all the difference. It's not just about image quality.
I'm an American who just bought my first film camera 60 us dollars for a Minolta xg-a with 2 lenses and a bag, though only 1 lens cap that fits. I have little idea how good or bad a price that is lol
Bought my M2, M3, RB67, Rolleiflex, 2 Mju-ii Cameras for around £2000~ over the first few years I got into film photography. Prices comparatively now are fucking insane and I wish I spent a lot more money. I'd be sitting on the deposit for a house... I remember when I thought £6 a roll of Portra 400 was expensive. We used to buy 24exp of Agfa 200 in Poundland. Shooting film was essentially free
I remember those Poundland film days, they had kodak ColorPlus 200 too sometimes. So weird to see people seeking that film out now for about £20 for a 36exp, from memory it was a pretty mediocre film.
Funny I have a hard time getting a half decent buck for my film gear on eBay but the Japanese dealers/sellers are all asking top dollar for the same gear. Of course theirs is mint ex++++. I interpret that rating as bargain😂.
here in EU, at this time the prices are staying high, but i have time to wait...i have 14 analogue cameras, 35mm , 6x6, 6x7, 3 point and shoot, the most of them i bought in the 80s and 90s. in last time i bought just a nikon FM2n ( near mint) but the price is between 400,-- and 500,-- €. But you can get some with 299,-- and my second is a Hexar RF ( also top condition) € 899,--.. I did not buy Leica, Hasselblad or Pentax 67...... i want them but the prices are crazy,,, i have time, the prices will drop also in EU, because of the film-prices..... greets BM
Im guessing the high end camera market, ie. Leica, paralled the high end watch market, ie Rolex. Both these luxury markets have taken a big hit lately. A lot of players have left the field.
UK shooter here. So I've always shot film. Never got into digital. Bought Nikon F5s for circa £150 in 2008 and 2010. Bought my Hasselblad in 2011 for £1800. The same cameras as of a year ago, were fetching upwards of £2500+ and £500+ commonly (some exceptions). The last 6 months, like you observe, I've noticed things not selling AS FAST. And sometimes for a bit less and I think the film costs have a lot do with that, combined with other cost of living issues as you observe too. I just shot a wedding - it cost £1100 to buy, develop and digitise the film for it. And then there's the fee on top. So shooting film for pro work makes prices super high. I think all the youngsters were going crazy for film (because to many of them, film was\is "new tech" - as in, new to them cos they've only ever know digital) but now its become not as affordable as they've been used to so the eBay and second hand stores are not selling that kit as fast and the iPhones are becoming more appealing. Even for me, I must admit its getting crazy. I shot 5 rolls of 35mm Provia 100 on holiday (about £80 of film) and it cost another £80 to get it developed and digitised. £160 for some holiday snaps on film....got to say, the iPhone is starting to appeal.
Nicely put, EU (Spain and Sweden) based here. OZ-NZ and other far markets were expensive precovid and I can't fathom at extra costs now. I mostly just shoot Medium format because of its qualities and 35mm is more occasional to me. As an under 30yo film shooting has almost always been expensive relatively so I really have been conscious throughout my amateur career. But also, I always have gotten good bang for the buck cameras. GW690, some prosumer Nikon AF and Pentaxes or Olympuses. No Leicas, Mamiya 7 or Hassies. The Mamiya 7 (And Bessa III - GF670s) are insane. Photo philosophy, better spend the money on film and going around to shoot. As of weddings, there is one popular Pro photog that owns a lab and it's so good he is very pro film, he recently tried a digial medium format but seems rather neutral to it. I would not be able to hold dat pro-film position unless well backed; he has a huge advantage in affounding/driving a film based workflow. And the phone is not just starting to appeal; decent models now have large sensors (compared to old P&S) and TBH for snapshooting they can even be better. But for targeted shooting with B&W darkroom printing, Film is just so rich.
I think Rick from Pawn Stars said it right when he said “Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s worth money” I see heaps of people listing their cameras for far too much just because it’s old, only to realise that they have to start lowering their price.
i'd be more specific saying that influencers with colour photography made the hype and kodak/fuji killed it, black and white will stay here for long time. Also i see more analog gears appear in the shops in italy last 2 months, nice video by the way
Market correction, not a collapse. Along with all the film availability nonsense, COVID gave a lot of people in the West extra disposable income either through government support or just not being able to travel for a while. That’s all gone, replaced with high inflation and rising interest rates. The hype train on certain cameras has definitely come and gone too. It’s a good thing. I don’t think film photography is a passing fad - vinyl records were considered similarly in the early 2000s - there will be plenty of hipsters who’ll move onto newer, easier, more affordable trends. That means fewer buyers fighting over the same limited secondhand market. I’m sure maintainable/repairable cameras will always remain solid and Leica will maintain their own cult status regardless but prices for highly electronic cameras be it Mamiya 7s and XPans, or shitty point and shoots will invariably suffer. And yeah, paying more for an AE-1 or K1000 than an FM/FE should be a crime 😂
yes filmprices are crazy. but with a bit of time it may get better again. in the end people who are selling theyr stuff now and give up film pgotography for good, i hope are people who started with film just because it was a hype. people who started with film and thought they need a M6 to make good images or just to own one because bloogers are taking about it. so i really hope some of the people who started with film trasnfered to be core film shooters now. oterhwise the whole system will fell apart again. and that would be very very sad. cause then we have a bankruped kodak company again.
I bought my film cameras at the good time, and have become alarmed at their increase in value - it puts me off actually using them sometimes, certainly in certain scenarios. I'd be happier if they all fell in cost, even if my collection reduces in value. These cameras should be accessible and usable, not investment items. I wouldn't pay the prices being asked today.
The proof will be in the Japanese pudding so to speak. I will believe the second hand analog gear market bubble bursting when I see consistent discounts with Japanese sellers. I understand Australia is a bit of its own thing with currency and import duties.
been shooting film for around 10 years and after searching and finding my favorite camera's in thriftstores i now can't be arsed to pay 15 euro for a roll of fuji c200. 😅 You'd wish for the market of film to implode so prices decrease but that also means that the already niche market is basically dead.
You refer to business write-offs. In the US to "write off" something as a tax deduction, in terms of a physical asset such as equipment, one must first buy the asset. To buy the asset one must have the money to buy it, and to do that, more often than not, one is, for government accounting purposes, seen as having a profit of at least the amount spent on the asset, so you get a business income tax on the amount spent, OR you could add your personal money into things as owners' equity and perhaps avoid a business income tax while costing you personally the full amount of the not yet gotten deduction. Or you could use retained earnings, i.e. retained profit already taxed. Once the business owns the asset the so-called bullshit term "write-off" begins, over MANY years one deducts the price paid for the item, a little each year, so you write off the debt with money that was worth MORE at one time, but worth less on each write-off due to inflation. After many years of deducting the annual amount your item becomes fully depreciated. Should you sell it, it will then become a taxable income event. Due to inflation and depreciation, you will never get the full value of the item deducted. All of that is why it is far cheaper to lease in business, in the US at least, all the lease expense is fully deductible whenever you pay it. Why spend 30 or 50 grand on something and get screwed better to lease. In fact sellers of large equipment know this and so it is all built-in to things. We once made the mistake of buying a copier for several thousand dollars, we leased thereafter.
Ok. But if you are in business, your business pays for the equipment, no matter how it is obtained. If you are a hobbyist, that expensive camera is an expensive hobby.
@@musa7606 Oh no, actually YOU DO PAY for the equipment when YOU are in business. Whatever the business spends YOU do not get in personal income. YOU personally pay for the equipment most certainly. In fact, for an LLC you and your business income are basically considered ONE entity by the government, and oddly an LLC is quite frequently the best tax status alternative for a business. Where a C corporation or S corporation makes more sense for others, depending on the business. Here's an interesting tidbit. IN NY State if you are an LLC and want a DBA, i.e. a "Doing Business As" this or that name you MUST register it with the state. IF your are an LLC it was/is like $50, if the same business were an S or C corporation, cha-ching $1500 for the SAME thing. I can tell you from years of getting delayed paychecks, living on not much, that indeed YOU pay right out of your pocket. YOU make the sacrifices in income, time, effort, low pay. It is called sweat equity. I can personally attest to it. That's why write-offs are bullshit for most small and medium sized businesses. It's like the so-called martini lunch meetings and horseshit they used to talk about. If you are taking clients out, that money does not go home in your paycheck. I paid, rent, utilities, insurance, leases, and payroll for EVERYONE ELSE, then, if something is left, that does not have to be set aside for the next round of bills, and all the accounts receivable are in good order, i.e. do big deadbeats not paying their bills, then you can get paid as an owner. Over time, as a business develops, things improve, but the basics of what I said above are always true. YOU pay.
lets all band together and lowball every camera on eBay tonight
I’ve been watching a camera on eBay for a month and finally last night it dropped 15%, so I picked it up, now hopefully some lenses drop in price too
I've had these thoughts too 😂
My man!
We need someone to coordinate this. You know, with time zones and all that, need some organizing
I think cameras that are mechanical and non-electronic will hold their value more than cameras that use electronics with more plastic parts.
Film saves you time in Lightroom and Photoshop. Time savings is often better than money savings.
Here in the US stores can't keep film in stock. It is sold out as soon as it gets on the shelf. Young adults have fell in love with film.
Well 10 to 15 years ago analog cameras was very cheap on ebay, but then a trend of reviving using film came and prices of analog cameras sky rocket. I do not understand all the fuzz about using film ! I used film for several decades both as a professional and for hobby, since 2007 I have only used digital Cameras and I have never been more happy as a photographer ! I am also happy not to use any of the chemicals required for film !!!
If the prices are going back closer to what they were prior to Covid, I wouldn’t call this a crash but a correction. Until I see the big used gear retailers coming up with bigger discounted sales (eg KEH had 20% sales in the past), I would definitely not call that a crash.
I’m in Canada, and I have 13 Nikon film cameras , and 5 high end Canon bodies.
Film cameras have always been a big part of my experience and will always be. I don’t mind paying for film and processing. Just makes me slow down and really enjoy the process.
I traded my M6 last year before the new release for a new MP and as you correctly pointed the old M6 was becoming unreliable so pretty happy. There is an obsession with sharpness in 2023 but film is about character and mood so sometimes the old lenses can create a better image than the newer ones. My advice for film shooters with the cost of film is to shoot B+W and develop and scan your own negatives. You are more in control and much cheaper. Cheers and regards.
I feel like that’s something a lot of film Leica owners don’t talk about. The fact that the camera needs to be serviced regularly or it’s just a pretty paperweight.
Film camera prices are through the roof unless you try and sell your used gear to a camera store or one of the online dealers. They'll tell you, "Yeah man, there's, like, not much demand for this stuff right now and these things were really not the best quality, I'll give you $25 for the camera and all the lenses." Walk into the store the next week, and you'll see them selling the exact same camera in the same condition for around $200.
i got most of my Film gear including the Xpan and Hassy when the prices were half of what they are now. i will keep them , and keep shooting film.
I bought a Nikon FE at a local used camera shop for $250. I know I could have gotten it cheaper on eBay but this one was pristine and had 30 day guarantee and I supported local business and community in process so I'm cool with it. Plus I met some great people and they introduced me to local film community and developers which was awesome so I was more than happy. Being out of film for 15+ years this was welcome help to get my journey started with film. Plus I love that local shop.
Here in the U.S. the prices is still strong, especially for higher end medium format cameras. It might be leveling off though.
Solid analysis!! I'm in NZ and have noticed pretty much the same thing. Gear just sitting there not getting sold. I sold my Mamiya 645 1000s recently for reasons you've mentioned, increasing cost of film and general living expenses. Plus I needed to invest in a mirrorless for CZcams so I think I made the right decision (albeit a very difficult one). I actually made a bit of money on the Mamiya but that was partly to do with getting a $350 USD refund from the japanese ebay dealership when I complained about something!!
I'm now down to a Nikon FE and Olympus OM2 for film cameras and will be keeping them. Appreciate the video mate :)
Your video is spot on! I have been saying this for about a year. We are going to start seeing more people gravitating to analog style digital cameras. I doubt I would ever get 650.00 out of my YashicaMat 124G that I bought and had CLA’ed.
Yes I agree there is a lot of high end film gear for sale but not selling in the UK.I went to a large camera fair recently and noticed a lot of Leica gear for sale. It was still there when the fair closed. There is a big difference between collectors and users. The users will not pay the high prices.
In Germany I do more often see Kodak Gold and Ultramax remaining in the shelfs of local stores. No wonder at around 8-9€ per roll. I think the big film boom is over.
You are so right, the price of film and film processing has gotten stupid.
After shooting digital for the past 20 years, its kinds hard to justify the film wait.
This is 2023, digital is the way to go. I still own a couple of film cameras.
But I only shoot a couple of rolls per year.
THANKS for your post.
The bubble is definitely bursting. The cost of film and processing is only going to continue to rise from the already crazy high levels. At the same time, disposable incomes are being squeezed. Which means fewer and fewer people will be able to justify shooting film as a hobby. Reduced demand for film cameras from people who would buy them to use just leaves the collectors / speculators and they will only want the ultra high-end rarities. In that scenario, prices for most film cameras will fall. Especially those that inflated most dramatically like the most hyped point and shoots (whose electronic components will start to fail in massive numbers as they age , rendering them unrepairable paperweights). It’s basic economics.
Great Video Mate :) Yeah man I’m actually seeing both the film and digital camera market dropping (2nd Hand) I’m in Australia too and yeah I just don’t think people have the “extra” cash to spend on gear right now :) I think you are spot on…
Even the “Digicam” market has burnt out a bit too - just over the last couple of months lol
Ofcourse you post something like this the morning after I invested in a Contax T2 and now im wondering if that was the best choice 😅
Narrator: It wasn't :)
100% agree with the first point about the camera not mattering very much. Photography is 90% talent and 10% hardware, and once you reach a certain lens quality then it's really a case of diminishing returns.
Film cameras can still be bought at a bargain price. Recently, I bought a Minolta 7000 Maxxum for $75 with a 35-80 f/4 lens. The camera was in perfect condition and it’s fun to use. There are sellers who don’t really know what their camera is worth so those deals are still out there (I.e I got a Pentax 645N for $200 because the woman selling it didn’t think it would be of use to anyone.
Eventually, all the supply of film cameras will be exhausted. What Melbourne really needs are more qualified service technicians; they would be flat out making good $$$ simply be conducting CLA’s of older film cameras and doing them in a reasonable time frame.
Recently bought 2 Olympus OMs with 4 lenses for $100. Don't buy the Leica, save your money for film.
Stateside, I have seen many CZcamsrs buying and promoting all the cameras mentioned and for several years, buyers are only interested in those recommended by their favorite CZcamsrs. That sent prices skyrocketing. Inventory in Los Angeles is extremely low for all film cameras. I haven't seen prices dropping but the same cameras have been sitting for months. All the cameras you mentioned are sitting at around $5000. Most Americans are financially tapped out. For all the reasons you mentioned, it does seem that there is a drop in demand for film cameras. Personally, photography is a hobby for me so spending even $1000 for a camera seemed absurd. I was able to load up on my dream cameras when professionals were making the switch to digital. I do regret not picking up a Hasselblad on the cheap.
I think you’re spot on even for the US market. I remember buying a Leica M3 in 2008 for less than 1K US and still selling it for the same price a few years ago. Now with the rising prices of film and everything else, it’s like do you pay for a more expensive camera or spend that money on film? Lenses still seem to hold their value though over bodies which makes sense.
I love when bubble go poof whatever bubble it is.
I so hope you’re right! I’m a film camera buyer, not a seller, so any price decreases are music to my ears.
All good points!!! I am glad the used gear market is getting more realistic... is a 50 year old camera worth a mortgage payment??? If it goes down to a night out, you may be more able to afford something!!! I, like you, will buy whatever Pentax puts out to support new film cameras!!!
I agree, same market softness here in NorCal-a Contax 645 w/ 80mm and 140mm lenses has been price-dropped successively for weeks and currently lists for an unheard of low $2850. Even in 2013 when I returned to film, this kit was commanding $4000.
One thing about FE/FMs, I hate their shutter actions, they feel and sound weak. It’s why I always mated them to MD-12 motors because somehow the shutters felt sturdier. Just a personal foible. They’re great cameras!
I am set I already have my Hasselblad 503 CW and Nikon F3hp and I will until I die. Also loving my little Olympus 35mm 38-105mm point and shoot. I have not shopped for a new camera in years. Maybe I can find some lenses at a good price today.
That is mostly true here the USA too. The premium brands like Hasselblad and Leica are still holding their value but most others have come down a little. Some items are sitting there in the market without moving. Just 18 months ago a Nikon 35Ti was right at $1000USD but recently I’ve seen them for under $800USD but the Nikon 28Ti is still up over $1000USD. As for film if you do some shopping and are willing to try something other than Kodak or Ilford there are some reasonably priced choices out there. Processing is another story if you do color but B/W can be done without much in the way of a darkroom and scanned with a digital camera if you don’t have an enlarger system
This is interesting. I used to own a ton of film camera 35mm pns and pentax 67 , with tons of film but now I noticed this camera or medium does not change my feel with photography so I decided to go back to a full frame digital camera and adapter for old lens. Honestly( for me) , film or not is doesn't matter.
Been shooting film for years. In my opinion, Film still has an advantage over digital if sharpness is not your priority. Film is just overpriced. I’m glad I was able to shot film again when I did. Hopefully film prices will become reasonable.
I quite film a couple of years ago because I could foresee this. Film cameras were way overpriced for something that could break tomorrow, film was rising and stocks reducing. Now that it has dropped somewhat might pick up another Nikon film camera and bang a few rolls through again. Im glad I sold my RZ67 when I did though even though I really miss that camera.
Good insight... There is definitely a shift happening in the second hand market here in the US. Doesn't sound directly parallel, but I've been selling since 2012, and the last few years have seen hundreds of new sellers selling film gear(all severely overpriced), and I'm slowly seeing them disappear one by one...
Hey Joey! Long time so see man, hope the family is all going well! I know what having kids does to your CZcams schedule 😂 hope your at least getting some waves 🌊
@@shootswithcoops thanks! Ya, it's tough! Definitely been scoring some waves though! Just got home from a couple weeks in the Philippines 🌊
Hi, I see also the price crash in the second hand market in Europe since some months…
Almost nobody from the collectors want to talk about because they will loose a lot of money and if the hipsters hear it’s not ‘cool’ anymore it will be even more drop the prices…
I sell film cameras for a living and we have similar situation in Europe- 1. people don't have money anymore for expensive gear 2. pros gave up shooting paid gigs on medium format because of the film cost 3. chinese collectors stopped buying because of poor economy situation 4. prices on hyped gear (Contax T3 etc) topped last year and soon all those cameras will die. 5. color 35mm film isn't cheap anymore so kids are no longer interested (they moved to old digicams). Of course it's not like the market collapsed overnight, and used M6 Leicas for 1000$ won't happen again, but it's last call to catch the hype train and get your money back (unless you overpayed heavily it's still perfectly doable). PS I'm waiting for the new Pentax too!
Off loaded most of my 35mm P&S during the mania. But at the same time I was purchasing digital cameras for peanuts. Starting to see the digicam market here in Australia pick up momentum 🚀
I bought an RB67 Pro SD for ~400USD with a lens and back recently. Glad I undercut the market by about 50% but people aren’t as lucky. Hopefully market prices start dropping across the board so some higher end cameras will be slightly more enticing to buy into.
Great thoughts! I think for pure film gear, e.g. film camera bodies, point and shoots etc the prices will settle now as the cost of actually shooting film continues to rise. Considering a roll of Portra now costs over $30 AUD, the viability of continuing to shoot film in any significant quantities is very much questioned. I think camera lenses that can be used on digital bodies could still hold some value. My 2 cents worth, invest in lenses. Buy cheaper film bodies, e.g. a contax g1, Nikon FE...if it stops working it stops working but you can enjoy it for the time being. Nikon, Leica lenses can be enjoyed on film and digital and that is really a safer bet at the moment.
Luckily, i bought most of my film cameras before the hype. I think a lot of classic cameras will hold a certain value, especially these working without a battery. The ultimate hype cameras like the XPan and these electronic point and shoots had and have to loose again on the second hand market. It makes no sense to buy a used camera for 4000€ which can break after a short time of use and are irreparable because of it's electronics.
The XPan is on my list of wanted cameras, but yeah, not buying until they are cheaper.
I live in the USA and in the last month, purchased a MINT condition F6 and grip and just today, a Mint condition F5. I have no plans to sell either camera (due to my age and the fact that I grew up with film) and plan to use them until the end of my life. I must admit that film costs and the processing costs make the process of using film a much more expensive deal. Still, I love FILM, especially B & W! I paid less than $500 for the mint F5 and did so because an F5 saved my life in combat in Afghanistan.
I agree with you that selling now is probably a loss for folks. That said, I applaud PENTAX for their announcement that they will manufacture new film camera bodies. Many photography students here in the USA are required to shoot both film and digital and they are grabbing up gear and depleting the stocks in local camera stores.
I made a video about the last film camera I planned on purchasing, then sold it cause I wasn’t using it much. Now I’m investing in digital Leica M to shoot for fun alongside my m6. Keeping my film camera collection for sentimental reasons but I also didn’t spend a ton of money on them, they were mostly purchased back in 2018/2019. US second hand market is currently flooded with cameras and they are starting to come down in price slowly but surely.
I bought an M6 for £1440, used it for 3 years. Sold it for £2500. Same time I bought a Pentax 67 for £450 sold it for £1200. Now I shoot with a Canon 300V and 50mm 1.4...Happy days 👌
I’m can’t believe what people were paying for Canon AE1P and Pentax K1000 bodies . $150+. What not buy a Nikon F100 for the same price? Heck N90s for $50. People are ignorant of what available out there. Especially the 90s camera bodies like EOS1n and Nikon F8008s which you can buy cheap and will last. I wanted an FM3a but the prices went from $350-$400 five year ago to $1000. Insane. No thanks. I’ll shoot my FM2n and FE2. Both I purchased in like new condition for $150 a piece. Forget old Pentax cameras like the ME Super or Super Program. They were never built to last this long. No part available. I’ll buy the new Pentax.
I can’t believe people ran the Mamiya RZ67 and the Mamiya 7 through the roof in prices.
That`s called influence my friend. Those camera are well know and widely available. Researching film cameras for the first time ain`t easy. A lot of cameras, a lot of gears around, it`s difficult to choose one thing, and people went with what others have or suggest to buy. I was in the very same situation, but I give myself some time, and luckily went with Minolta. At the same time found a great deal for Sony A300 which was really convenient to use Minolta lenses on it.
Now I secretly hope, price of the film will drop a bit in the near future.
I have a Nikon F90x (N90s in the USA) and the exposure is always spot on. That and my F4 are my go to cameras. I have manual focus Pentax and Olympus cameras and I love them but practically speaking, auto focus helps my old eyes and aperture priority means I can concentrate on what I am taking and not the technical stuff.
Definitely not wrong. I've just offloaded all my cameras because I think it'll only get worse and the bubble was a once-off event. I actually tried to sell them to a second hand camera shop and they said they weren't taking on second hand at all because people just aren't buying.
Actually just took the initiative about 5 weeks ago and started buying up an insane amount of film cameras ~ sitting at roughly 80 of them picked up in the last month and a bit. Multiple Yashica T5’s in mint condition for $200 each, Contax T2 for $800, Nikon F3 for $200, Nikon F (original with plain prism) for $100 and many more it’s insane what’s happening. I’m taking a big gamble but one i’m willing to risk. This is all Australian market and prices too!
First of all, film was (almost) never cheap. I remember back when I was a kid, the only way to afford me any descent film stock, I had to buy it in a bulk roll. So I did that for years.
The only time you could get film for peanuts is from the time when digital photography was established (early 2000's), when film was slowly extinguished by slow and agonising death, until recently, when prices exploded.
I'd not say film camera market is crashing, but it 's definitely slowing down. I still see local optimists here in SE Europe who are trying to sell their Praktica cameras for US $75 to 100, but high end mechanical pieces like Nikon F3 or FM2 are getting cheaper day by day...
Mamiya 7’s have always astonished me, once their electronics fail, that’s it. Expensive paper weights. Why, oh why would you spend such insane amounts. I remember them brand new on sale too.
I dont know about a bubble bursting BUT i do hope things find more of an equilibrium. I think certain vintage cameras are worth perhaps not the current prices but something maybe approaching them. but only certain ones otherwise im in full agreement. pentax and hopefully other manufactures producing film cameras again and the global back catalogue of vintage gear not being priced outside the means of the majority of sensible people are the best thing that could happen for photography at large for now. exciting times! finally!
Great news, I´m seeing lower prices for film cameras in Europe too. Waiting for the Mamiya 7 to drop... But cameras - even digital ones - aren´t really selling right now. Wanted to sell my Fuji X-T2 and ebay seems to be flooded with exactly that model atm. I´ll be just waiting it out. No need to make a loss...
I’m here in Japan, or ‘film-heaven.’ Having a Leica or any high end camera and shooting film is a ‘thing.’ And even with the digital era those unusual optically, rare, or quality name brand vintage lenses are still demanding high prices and seem to be selling. I once many years ago had a manager of a camera collector’s shop say that if they put on the floor all the M-series Leica they had in the back room prices would crash. There are a load of Leica available these days, but price have not crashed, but climbed to a level I never thought I’d never see . There are deals out there though (the normal stuff) and even the Leica L39 screw mount cameras have seen a drop to ‘deal’ status (if you think Leica), and the vintage 50-60 year old Takumar lenses adapted to a FF digital camera have been my window to new [to me] used gear with a vintage ‘look’ and affordable. The one problem with vintage gear is the repair costs. Unless it is really a high end ‘collectable’ something, it is now almost disposable gear and not worth any price unless you can do your own repair work.
Right before film made its big debut, I bought my Minolta X-570 in absolute perfect condition for $50. Just 6 months ago it was going for mid $200. Now they are less than $150. Now we just need film prices to go back down. I just had dev/scan of a roll here in southern California and it was over $20 for high res. Absolutely insane.
I built a $25 copy stand. My Olympus digital bolts to the top and 4x5 light box is underneath with the film on top. I own two film scanners and this rig blows the door off both for speed and quality.
Hi...I can understand where you are coming from. I can sense that prices has come down. But the prices will not come down uniformly for all camera. For some it will hold decent value. Yes, some camera like mamiya 7 or like, they will lose value quickly like they appreciated. Good for us.
Even for us still shooting film it is s tough market. I typically sell film gear to buy other film gear. My Hasselblad just sits on the market at a really fair price (well under what I paid 2 years ago) and because it does not sell I don't have the cash to reinvest so someone else's cool gear is also going to sit on the market as they have lost a hopeful buyer. I do also shoot digital and won't be buying more either unless my stuff sells.
Been shooting film for only 6 months but yeah makes sense people would sell things off, I’ll never have the money to buy a Leica so that’s not a worry for me, I’ve been shooting with yashica fx-3 super 2000 and spent a bit on lenses, got like 4 lenses and the camera probably haven’t even spent 1000cad, and I’ve been very happy with the photos it takes!
I've sold most of my film camera these days just have a Minolta X300s and Praktica Super TL3 in my film collection. I kept most of the lenses so I can adapt them to my mirrorless camera. I personally won't be investing any more into film due to the costs. I have 2 rolls of Kentmere Pan 100 left then that's me done with film photography. For me personally unless you go to a dark room and create a photograph all that's happening is people are just producing a digital image from photographing a negative which is in itself still a digital image. To really see the beauty of film photography, it has to be done in a dark room because an actual photograph will look vastly different to a scanned negative.
My 1st camera was a Nikon Fe with 50mm f1.8, in 1980 it cost 550$ CAN, I sold it when I upgraded to the F3HP a few years later. Still have my F3HP! Now I mainly shoot for my own pleasure with a Leica M10-R, film days are long behind me. Now I can at least scan my old slides/negatives with my Leica.
I've noticed the same thing on eBay for around 2 months now here in EU, excluding the Nikon. Nikon is going up in price quick ever since it got hyped up on CZcams a few months ago.
I am of the same opinion about new film cameras and will buy the Pentax and probably Mint too.
I shot film for five years. I recently switched to digital due to the higher price of film. It’s actually been really enjoyable not having to scan my film. I’ve been getting prints made every month from the photos I’ve taken and that has also been a really awesome experience. I think all Nikon has to do is make an updated DF (smaller, lighter, full frame, possibly mirror less) so we can use all of the f mount glass with a more retro camera experience.
A full frame ZFc is rumoured to be happening
I think the US market has definitely cooled off. So much Stupid Money was handed out during the 'rona 'crisis' that people were doing crazy things. Lately, I've noticed some Pentax 6x7s sitting on facebook marketplace for quite a while (months). Thinking about getting one, had one back in the 80s, but just not sure I want one again. Picked up its little brother the 645, which is a great 'little' 120 camera, plus it can use lenses from my Kiev 60 SLR. I love when I can 'dual use' lenses, like my minolta AF film lenses on my Sony digitals. Don't ever anticipate getting a Leica unless it's cheap.
Contax T3’s holding steady, if not more 🔥
Interesting.
In the US, at least to my observations, while film has increase in price a little, it hasn't been THAT bad of an increase. For my film shooting, I tend to stick mostly with medium format....shooting 6x6, 6x9, 6x12 and my favorite, 6x17. I haven't found that MF film has increased that much.
For 35mm, I'm about to grab a reel of Vison3 500T and respool my own. I figured that will be roughly $2.50/roll or so....and for 35mm I mostly only shoot it in pano with my HorizonT or PressPan camera.
Anyway...while I have noticed cameras here are getting $$$, I haven't noticed film getting that much more expensive, nor hard to get. At least in the US.
I’ll put you onto some game. Mono no aware is a indie movie or movie company in Brooklyn. They got good prices on film where they charge 70 dollars per 100ft of vision 3. It’s economically if you’re bulk loading and shooting stills. Not so much for videos.
I started with and still use the same Nikon f and set of Nikon lenses I scored on Facebook marketplace a couple years back before the boom really happened. I use those same lenses on my Z6ii now and they are almost as sharp as modern glass. The coatings are definitely their downfall though, some lens flares if you're shooting with the sun hitting the front element from the side but they're manageable with a hood.
yup analog is going up and up. everyone loves it
I haven't paid much attention to the US film camera market as I faded away from film once it started getting expensive. But I see a lot of high end cameras still listed. What this is doing though is raising digital bodies up. Especially Fujifilm. I know it's also the fact Fuji discontinued a bunch of their models but a lot of film enthusiasts seem to be paying top dollar for Fuji bodies here in the US.
the biggest deal i got so far was a whole kit of a Leica IIIc with 4 different lenses, some soviet and some not, with the custom viewfinder, leather case and all for less than 500. the camera is working magnifingly and has never gave me an issue, imo that was a bargain. but i agree. here in italy the film has never got very popular for the demand but the prices for the camera have indeed been getting higher for some reason, people selling Canon A-1 for 400 bucks not even being restored, so with necessity of some intervents. ofcourse they will never sell those
I don't shoot film but sometimes when I'm out I'll see someone shooting film. I think its the college kids that are getting into film.
Also I think the reason film is catching on again is people are just board and what a new look to their images.
I just picked up a Pentax 67 and figured I will probably loose money when I sell it, but that happens with digital as well. My Z6 is not worth much either.
Large format is still alive and well! 4x5, 8x10, and so forth. I called it the 3 F’s, when the FILM FAD FADES, and it has. 😂😂🤣🤣
Agreed! I’ll be selling 35mm gear for realistic, cheap prices so that I can concentrate on my return to large format and 16mm cinematography.. and afford to buy sheet film.
Yep very very true, and large format won’t go anywhere. Proper art form
@@shootswithcoops Absolutely Agree, I love my Chamonix 4x5, yes it is slow and methodical but soooooo rewarding, I have been developing my own BW and then scanning with a macro lens and DONE! Great video you posted here, Cheers.
@@flyingo I don’t blame you 1 bit, LF shooting is soooo much fun, especially when developing the stuff yourself like I do, it is also soooooo rewarding. Good luck, most importantly have FUN.
If your predictions are correct, I look forward to all of the sales to come.
I’m in the US and bought SO many film cameras in the early 2000s. I’m interested in helping new, young photographers get into film so my plan is to sell nice Nikon and other brands of cameras for at least $50 to $100 lower than the current prices to do two things; save people some money and get these beauties shooting film through them again. I’m not worried about profit because I paid less than $50 for most all of them back in 2004 or so. As a hobby I repair photographic equipment - small problems, replace light seals, etc., so the hundreds of cameras and lenses I have (yes “hundreds”) are in such good shape that I know they’ll outlive me, and probably film itself. The money I spent on most all of them isn’t “tied up” and it isn’t imperative that I make it all back. I knew going in that prices would double, triple and possibly quadruple, and they did, but if me selling a Nikon F with lens for less than $100 helps someone get into film photography, then I’m happy. Life is too short to try and get every penny you can. My biggest concern is that eBay is still the largest market, and I hate evilBay.
I just bought my first film camera! I wish I had seen this prior, lol, but it's fantastic that you're helping people like me get into the art.
That's nice of you but if you're not maximising your profit, someone else will...
@@appleshampoo324 , true.. but that will be up to them.
There is still some way to go for film camera prices. It's not feasible for manufacturer's to build a camera for example a Hasselblad 500CM for £1,100, which is what I paid in April 2024. I would guess it would need to retail for £6k plus. I have also noticed a recent shortage of available medium format cameras for sale.
Around the year 2000, Hasselblad gear was CHEAP on eBay. Remember the SMC? A few hundred. The 500mm that came in a rifle stock leather case? Nobody was buying it. So I did. Contax 645? Grabbed.
Nah not around 2000. The people shooting medium format were still shooting film at that time, including fashion photographers. Only press photographers shot dslr. Cut to 2005-2010, then Hasselblads were cheap. Bought a mint 500CM from 1991 for 650$
I'm not 100% sure, but I get the feeling the market in the UK is at least plateauing. I've been sitting on a Zeiss Contax IIa that I don't really want to sell as it's so lovely, but can't really justify owning it alongside an M2 and a IIIf (and an R6 and Nikon F3 and F4 etc..... ). The problem is I'm resisting selling in case I lose on it, but if the market is dropping, I'll need to sit tight for quite a while.
KEH seems to be the same. A lot of high end cameras and they are not selling very quickly.
They won't be able to do that long term, eventually they will have to shift the stock. They probably bought them for quite a price too.
I agree, it'd be very difficult to tell the difference between a photo shot on film with a Pentax, Nikon, Canon, etc., and a much more expensive Leica M rangefinder. So why do people shoot with Leica and other expensive 35mm cameras? 1) lenses for a particular camera system 2) the experience of shooting with a particular camera. A Leica feels great in the hand and the build quality is superb. And they are quiet - instead of a sharp clack from an SLR mirror slap that can be rather loud, you get a soft click from a Leica. If I'm shooting street photography, I'd much rather shoot with a Leica M than my K1000. Of course, any rangefinder is going to be quiet. But my point still stands that the camera you use, the experience you get from the camera, can make all the difference. It's not just about image quality.
I'm an American who just bought my first film camera 60 us dollars for a Minolta xg-a with 2 lenses and a bag, though only 1 lens cap that fits. I have little idea how good or bad a price that is lol
Sounds good
Bought my M2, M3, RB67, Rolleiflex, 2 Mju-ii Cameras for around £2000~ over the first few years I got into film photography. Prices comparatively now are fucking insane and I wish I spent a lot more money. I'd be sitting on the deposit for a house...
I remember when I thought £6 a roll of Portra 400 was expensive. We used to buy 24exp of Agfa 200 in Poundland. Shooting film was essentially free
I remember those Poundland film days, they had kodak ColorPlus 200 too sometimes. So weird to see people seeking that film out now for about £20 for a 36exp, from memory it was a pretty mediocre film.
Funny I have a hard time getting a half decent buck for my film gear on eBay but the Japanese dealers/sellers are all asking top dollar for the same gear. Of course theirs is mint ex++++. I interpret that rating as bargain😂.
here in EU, at this time the prices are staying high, but i have time to wait...i have 14 analogue cameras, 35mm , 6x6, 6x7, 3 point and shoot, the most of them i bought in the 80s and 90s. in last time i bought just a nikon FM2n ( near mint) but the price is between 400,-- and 500,-- €. But you can get some with 299,-- and my second is a Hexar RF ( also top condition) € 899,--.. I did not buy Leica, Hasselblad or Pentax 67...... i want them but the prices are crazy,,, i have time, the prices will drop also in EU, because of the film-prices..... greets BM
Id look for a chinon mechanical lice the cx which is as reliable as the canon a1
I think it’s the economy in general
Im guessing the high end camera market, ie. Leica, paralled the high end watch market, ie Rolex. Both these luxury markets have taken a big hit lately. A lot of players have left the field.
This is pretty much on trend in America rn as well
UK shooter here. So I've always shot film. Never got into digital. Bought Nikon F5s for circa £150 in 2008 and 2010. Bought my Hasselblad in 2011 for £1800. The same cameras as of a year ago, were fetching upwards of £2500+ and £500+ commonly (some exceptions). The last 6 months, like you observe, I've noticed things not selling AS FAST. And sometimes for a bit less and I think the film costs have a lot do with that, combined with other cost of living issues as you observe too. I just shot a wedding - it cost £1100 to buy, develop and digitise the film for it. And then there's the fee on top. So shooting film for pro work makes prices super high. I think all the youngsters were going crazy for film (because to many of them, film was\is "new tech" - as in, new to them cos they've only ever know digital) but now its become not as affordable as they've been used to so the eBay and second hand stores are not selling that kit as fast and the iPhones are becoming more appealing. Even for me, I must admit its getting crazy. I shot 5 rolls of 35mm Provia 100 on holiday (about £80 of film) and it cost another £80 to get it developed and digitised. £160 for some holiday snaps on film....got to say, the iPhone is starting to appeal.
This is the reason I’m putting together my digital set up. I’ll still shoot film, but only rarely.
Nicely put, EU (Spain and Sweden) based here. OZ-NZ and other far markets were expensive precovid and I can't fathom at extra costs now. I mostly just shoot Medium format because of its qualities and 35mm is more occasional to me. As an under 30yo film shooting has almost always been expensive relatively so I really have been conscious throughout my amateur career. But also, I always have gotten good bang for the buck cameras. GW690, some prosumer Nikon AF and Pentaxes or Olympuses. No Leicas, Mamiya 7 or Hassies.
The Mamiya 7 (And Bessa III - GF670s) are insane.
Photo philosophy, better spend the money on film and going around to shoot. As of weddings, there is one popular Pro photog that owns a lab and it's so good he is very pro film, he recently tried a digial medium format but seems rather neutral to it. I would not be able to hold dat pro-film position unless well backed; he has a huge advantage in affounding/driving a film based workflow.
And the phone is not just starting to appeal; decent models now have large sensors (compared to old P&S) and TBH for snapshooting they can even be better.
But for targeted shooting with B&W darkroom printing, Film is just so rich.
what medium format film camera would you recommend at the moment?
At the moment, Pentax 67’s seems to be going pretty cheap and they are pretty bullet proof.
Mamiya RB67 is bulletproof, and the lenses are cheap (except the 110mm) and fantastic.
So you are saying I should be able to get my Hasselblad soon? 😊
I hope so haha
I think Rick from Pawn Stars said it right when he said “Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it’s worth money”
I see heaps of people listing their cameras for far too much just because it’s old, only to realise that they have to start lowering their price.
Agree till there is more affordable film
Yep, very true
i'd be more specific saying that influencers with colour photography made the hype and kodak/fuji killed it, black and white will stay here for long time. Also i see more analog gears appear in the shops in italy last 2 months, nice video by the way
Market correction, not a collapse. Along with all the film availability nonsense, COVID gave a lot of people in the West extra disposable income either through government support or just not being able to travel for a while. That’s all gone, replaced with high inflation and rising interest rates. The hype train on certain cameras has definitely come and gone too. It’s a good thing. I don’t think film photography is a passing fad - vinyl records were considered similarly in the early 2000s - there will be plenty of hipsters who’ll move onto newer, easier, more affordable trends. That means fewer buyers fighting over the same limited secondhand market. I’m sure maintainable/repairable cameras will always remain solid and Leica will maintain their own cult status regardless but prices for highly electronic cameras be it Mamiya 7s and XPans, or shitty point and shoots will invariably suffer.
And yeah, paying more for an AE-1 or K1000 than an FM/FE should be a crime 😂
Film, like vinyl, is a wish dream for those who were not there when that stuff was happening. Come on, what's next. wet plates?
Basic economics is crazy
yes filmprices are crazy. but with a bit of time it may get better again. in the end people who are selling theyr stuff now and give up film pgotography for good, i hope are people who started with film just because it was a hype. people who started with film and thought they need a M6 to make good images or just to own one because bloogers are taking about it. so i really hope some of the people who started with film trasnfered to be core film shooters now. oterhwise the whole system will fell apart again. and that would be very very sad. cause then we have a bankruped kodak company again.
I bought my film cameras at the good time, and have become alarmed at their increase in value - it puts me off actually using them sometimes, certainly in certain scenarios. I'd be happier if they all fell in cost, even if my collection reduces in value. These cameras should be accessible and usable, not investment items. I wouldn't pay the prices being asked today.
Yeah totally right, they should be used, higher price can turn some into collectors pieces
That Would Be Tragic!
The proof will be in the Japanese pudding so to speak. I will believe the second hand analog gear market bubble bursting when I see consistent discounts with Japanese sellers. I understand Australia is a bit of its own thing with currency and import duties.
been shooting film for around 10 years and after searching and finding my favorite camera's in thriftstores i now can't be arsed to pay 15 euro for a roll of fuji c200. 😅 You'd wish for the market of film to implode so prices decrease but that also means that the already niche market is basically dead.
Great time to buy cameras, shocking time to buy colour film
hahah so true
=> Great time for collectors, sad times for film photographers
You refer to business write-offs. In the US to "write off" something as a tax deduction, in terms of a physical asset such as equipment, one must first buy the asset. To buy the asset one must have the money to buy it, and to do that, more often than not, one is, for government accounting purposes, seen as having a profit of at least the amount spent on the asset, so you get a business income tax on the amount spent, OR you could add your personal money into things as owners' equity and perhaps avoid a business income tax while costing you personally the full amount of the not yet gotten deduction. Or you could use retained earnings, i.e. retained profit already taxed. Once the business owns the asset the so-called bullshit term "write-off" begins, over MANY years one deducts the price paid for the item, a little each year, so you write off the debt with money that was worth MORE at one time, but worth less on each write-off due to inflation. After many years of deducting the annual amount your item becomes fully depreciated. Should you sell it, it will then become a taxable income event. Due to inflation and depreciation, you will never get the full value of the item deducted.
All of that is why it is far cheaper to lease in business, in the US at least, all the lease expense is fully deductible whenever you pay it. Why spend 30 or 50 grand on something and get screwed better to lease. In fact sellers of large equipment know this and so it is all built-in to things. We once made the mistake of buying a copier for several thousand dollars, we leased thereafter.
Ok.
But if you are in business, your business pays for the equipment, no matter how it is obtained. If you are a hobbyist, that expensive camera is an expensive hobby.
@@musa7606 Oh no, actually YOU DO PAY for the equipment when YOU are in business. Whatever the business spends YOU do not get in personal income. YOU personally pay for the equipment most certainly. In fact, for an LLC you and your business income are basically considered ONE entity by the government, and oddly an LLC is quite frequently the best tax status alternative for a business. Where a C corporation or S corporation makes more sense for others, depending on the business. Here's an interesting tidbit. IN NY State if you are an LLC and want a DBA, i.e. a "Doing Business As" this or that name you MUST register it with the state. IF your are an LLC it was/is like $50, if the same business were an S or C corporation, cha-ching $1500 for the SAME thing.
I can tell you from years of getting delayed paychecks, living on not much, that indeed YOU pay right out of your pocket. YOU make the sacrifices in income, time, effort, low pay. It is called sweat equity. I can personally attest to it.
That's why write-offs are bullshit for most small and medium sized businesses.
It's like the so-called martini lunch meetings and horseshit they used to talk about. If you are taking clients out, that money does not go home in your paycheck.
I paid, rent, utilities, insurance, leases, and payroll for EVERYONE ELSE, then, if something is left, that does not have to be set aside for the next round of bills, and all the accounts receivable are in good order, i.e. do big deadbeats not paying their bills, then you can get paid as an owner.
Over time, as a business develops, things improve, but the basics of what I said above are always true. YOU pay.