It is somewhat obscene don't you think that the NZ government offer of a 100 million dollars to a bunch of millionaires gets turned down because it isn't enough! Especially when you consider a lot of other sports get nothing in any form of assistance or grants and would be greatly appreciative of even just a tiny percentage of what is being offered to Team NZ. I think the whole America's cup thing gets grossly devalued when there is nothing to support anymore, which will be the case if Dalton and co. go off shore chasing extra millions. Bye bye Dalton and any national support if your aspirations come to fruition.
I'm from NZ and would love for the next America's cup to be hosted in NZ, even if it's in a different city perhaps. Auckland is the ideal location, the infrastructure is already there as mentioned with part of the govt spending of $250 going towards that. I'm no expert but I feel NZD$99 is a fair if not generous offer, considering the pandemic and what has already been invested by the people of NZ vs the lack of forecasted economic boost through the event itself, also due to the pandemic . As with most major sporting events, often the host nation doesn't make a profit. We're a small nation and don't exactly have a huge budget to throw on an event like this, no matter how good we are. Still, I hope it does stay in the city of sails.
What about New Zealanders support for Team NZ, I for one wouldn't go out of my way to follow them if it goes off shore. Just wait for the results on the news.
Of course there will be a higher bid. The gulf states can always find the money. Th NZ government bid is a fair and reasonable amount of taxpayers money. Going off shore will risk loosing the goodwill of the New Zealand public. They need to remember the origins of the New Zealand challenge when people around the country donated money to help the early challenges. Peter Blake mortgaged his house to fund an early challenge deposit. I'm sure the All Blacks could get fantastic sponsorship if they played all their home tests in Japan.....but that's not the point. The New Zealand public have always looked on the cup are THEIR challenge, even if it's an overseas sponsored team. To take it away from them is a huge risk, especially if they lose. Nobody will be putting their hand in their pockets in New Zealand to fund another challenge if that happens.
Let's not forget, it's about benefits to Auckland businesses having it here, not about loyalty that's second. Turning down 99mil is greedy? Remember Mayweather doesn't get in the ring for anything less than 300mil and Soccer transfers in the hundreds of millions. This is a billion-dollar event spanning months of sailing, not a one-off boxing match for half a billion... allow the funding to reflect that wherever in the world it's held, we'll win anywhere on this planet regardless
Dalton & TNZ want 60% salary increase for crew & critical staff to ensure they stay onboard for next cup & not grabbed by other overseas syndicates. That's just greedy, what about loyalty to NZ & everything we have put in so far? Let sponsors pay up more, not us taxpayers.
I think so. Better to risk losing the cup but retain the moral high-ground than vice versa. I can't believe the amount of taxpayer money that has already gone into ETNZ over the years. Couldn't see that happening in any other country.
People talk about loyalty to team NZ. How many of those people would forgo a big wage increase to stay with their current employer? Loyalty only goes so far. Money speaks very loudly.
Seems like a ruse with the rules theyve established about Nationality etc .. especially if they're aiming for a quick turn around .. just trying to game the govt
Yeah and as much as I love the AC, most of the design and on board team at etnz are multimillionaires and dont need the money..They just want the money.Speaks volumes about any desire to the best for New Zealand and represent this country,,,hypocrites and to think Dalton was so anti Coutts.Almost acting in the same manner,money first loyalty second
If they leave we (NZ) should ask them to stop using New Zealand as part of there team name. Instead of wearing a silver fern on their shirts they should wear their sponsors logo.
"They still have the option of coming back to Auckland" Why? This is big money sport. If there is no loyalty why should the offer not be withdrawn if it is unacceptable. What benefit do countries get from spending enormous sums of money to subsidize non participatory sports?
I’m from NZ.. Your interpretation of the press release is a bit askew. There has been an ‘exclusive negotiation period’ within which Team NZ was exclusively bound to negotiate with the NZ govt. Now Team NZ is able to explore alternative venue bids, these can be then considered as options.. Team NZ is hell -bent on defending the next AC successfully
Thanks for clarifying Geoff. I thought I had mentioned that. When I'm reading I forget which bits I've read out! Either way it's unusual for a winning AC team to even look at international venues
@@FastForwardSailing I agree it’s unusual, but the possible effect of the next period of negotiation might be to establish that Auckland is in fact the best venue.. from a negotiation standpoint, until one assesses an option against another option, one can’t rate one over the other. I like many fellow kiwis, hope the outcome is to hold the event in Auckland.. but there needs to be enough money to be able to fund a viable defence (is the ‘party line’..)
Hey Geoff. I suspect the exclusive negotiation was a ruse. No matter how much the govt spent, ETNZ could always reject it and use it as a crowbar to jack up the price for the non-exclusive period. Lose-lose for the NZ govt. Makes a complete mockery of the concept of Team New Zealand.
Thanks for stating the truth.Dalton is a tribe member. You'll notice that the 5 million stolen from the govt funding news has gone down the memory hole.(deposited in an Hungarian bank account)
Not new Zealanders are tired about that kind of trophy, but the world wide is. Too much money, too much useless speed in that competition, just a helm, a mainsail and stop.... Then a lot of arms working. That's no sailing. It's boring.
Considering the NZ govt is a huge sponsor of the team it would be intereresting to see what effect it has on how much they are willing to give. For the NZ govt, having the race in NZ is the return on the investment. Having it raced elsewhere will mean NZ govt gets little return on its investment and will reconsider the sponsorship.
@@bremCZ "Representatives of taxpayers". WTF are you talking about? They don't 'represent taxpayers'. They represent those voters they agreed to enrich at the expense of another group of voters. And of course, large numbers of the socialist clowns who voted for these idiots wouldn't pay any tax at all.
I'd imagine that last Americas cup didn't get the return NZ was expecting because of covid. Economically the country is doing well relative to the world, and is growing, but any public money has to go to continue stimulating the economy.
Love to see cup race here in New Zealand and see hw long team nz can hold the cup .ido believe this time going to be hard for any team trying to take the cup off team nz .good luck team nz
The next America’s Cup races need to be held on a course long enough that a race is more than just laps of up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down the course. At least la-s that require several turns per lap, more like auto races.
I don't think it would be a good idea to convert the AC into a Sail GP format competition. We already have a popular sailing event like that, although I understand the growing concerns of the long hiatus. It's a valid argument. Another option would be to _reduce_ the hiatus, maybe down to every three or even two years. That way interest in the AC can be better maintained in the interim. As for venue, I'm not that particular. I just want a location where good wind is guaranteed every day! Does that place exist? If so, hold the event there!
I agree. Host it more often. More cost effective that way too. On the wind... I don't think guaranteed good wind exists! But there are certainly some areas better than others. That seems like a priority for a venue. Especially important for the live footage which is how most fans watch
@@FastForwardSailing BTW, how is Barcelona in regards to wind? It seems well favored but being by the Mediterranean wouldn't the wind be at either extreme?
@@jamesaron1967 I can't comment on Barcelona as I've not sailed there. I have sailed in Majorca which is close but it's an island so could be very different wind. Majorca's wind is pretty good. You don't hear of that many races hosted in Barca so that could indicate it's not that great
More regular racing would require fundamental changes to the deed of gift. Winner is allowed to set the rules, including the class of yacht sailed. Two years would never allow enough development time for any new class. I know many people argue that the AC should still be raced on 12m monohulls but that's what has always made the AC unique. Winner sets the rules. The AC has always been about pushing the limits of tech. That may not have been foreseen when the rule writers came up with the idea, but it's the natural outcome of it, and I think it has become quite an important aspect that should not be overlooked.
Team New Zealand while I loved the coverage of the event on your home waters this year and would love for you to defend it in New Zealand. If that is not going to happen come back to Bermuda to defend it. You did amazingly well in 2017. Bermuda would love to host another cup
It could well be held on the Great lakes but the Swiss lakes are probably not reliable regarding the wind strengths although there is a lot of good sailing there too. It would actually surprise me if the word offshore was mentioned in the rules as it was a default and perhaps thus not mentioned. And I could be wrong of course.
Unfortunately Grant Dalton doesn't understand that in hosting the Americas Cup the costs are now so extreme that the trophy has become devalued. The RNZYS holder of the cup have I believe handed over its future to Team NZ a seriously bad move. We believe the present crew that won this year are not keen on defending the cup offshore. Of the venues mentioned only one might be suitable for the races to be held that is Cork the others Dubai China Isle of Wight are or maybe oozing with money but not the right conditions. In fact I will predict that if Team NZ race in Cork with maybe a new yacht they will lose the Americas Cup. We are not impressed with Daltons yet to be confirmed decision to take the trophy overseas just for MONEY. Because money lowers the value of the event.
He cannot do the job with 99 million, get someone who can, and if he takes it off shore, the country will not forget it, or back with their own money any of his future projects, like we have done with so many of his projects before(round world racing before america's cup). Shameful how he is taking us and our loyalty for granted
Any place that has serious dependable wind UK San Francisco New Zealand or Cork... Dubai would be a risk. The city of Alameda in San Francisco bay would be a good venue without San Francisco politics getting in the way. New York in San Diego are lousy options... in the US
The cup should never go back to the USA unless they WIN IT! Besides that the US is not a Safe place to send overseas teams! If they can't protect their own Capital and seat of government, how can they be trusted to protect our sailors?
the cases havnt been high but when the last america's cup had no out of country travelers coming to watch im guessing that the return of investment that the govenment had been betting on wasnt there
Tourism has been destroyed as one of our top 3 earners. 15% of businesses is some parts have shut down. The AC done asap could actually save nz tourism.
True, but would that give enough time for more syndicates to be ready? To really benefit we need the Cup to be watched all over the world as a big advert for NZ. A re-run of the last regatta with so few challengers may not generate much interest.
@@unikittythegamer4515 true. That is where the hoopla needs to settle down and govt offer necessary assurances of an open borders regatta. There are zero excuses once the vaccine is rolled out, for this to happen as normal.
Why do you say "we all know there is plenty of money in Saudi Arabia" when talking about Dubai? Dubai is one of the Emirates in the United Arab Emirates, who are a completely different country to Saudi Arabia and not all that friendly to them either. UAE is far more modern and open than Saudi Arabia.
Yes I believe they still are. I actually worked for them a few years ago there. But it's still the solent so home turf. Many of the team are from the IOW and the yacht club behind Ineos is Royal Yacht Squadron in Cowes. Brits will be very happy with logistics if they pull this one off.
That's true (I used to work there). But it is on the Solent so it would effectively be a "home match" for them. Also the yacht club behind Ineos is based there. Probably should have been clearer though
Would have been cool to bring it to Lake Wakatipu. Queenstown would offer a great place to host and view the racing. If they do choose an alternative site, perhaps the UAE waters would be ideal, for Emirates commitment to our team.
I reckon there would still be the $$ issue anywhere in NZ. Looked it up on google and looks like a lovely venue though. I think UAE does tock a lot of boxes. Might be a claim to fame for NZ - the first team to host the cup in Asia
super embarassing, we went to the cup, and Auckland made a fantastic job of hosting, and it highlighted Auckland at it's best, and 7500 boats went out to support them, it was great fun. I also think a change to smaller cheaper boats is necessary, because three competitors trying to win it from us, this has just got too expensive for most teams. Australia, Japan, China, Switzerland, France and few others found this last cup too expensive to attend, with the boats prohibitively expensive. I also would say that local knowledge won them the secound last race, so home turf advantage was a factor. Team NZ is backed by our government and they are using tax payers money, and why would we put our tax money into an overseas event, Seriously? Would you want your government spending millions of dollars on a team that turned their back on you? Not a popular move for any government and fair enough.
If they take it offshore I am done with the america's cup, I do not support traitors, who brought the cup here, then willfully took it away for money, scumbag move.
The reality is that we aren't big enough to keep it here. Not everyone in NZ is interested in the Americas cup in fact in reality there a only a small percentage who are. We all take an interest in it when it's on because we do have good success with yachting world wide but once it's over we don't care or even follow it. There is alot more money to be made in the bigger markets around the world and lets face it, the Americas cup is a business and business is about money
How probable is it, that with non public input behind the scenes from other teams, that deviance from the five eyes agreement has something to do with hosting resistance?
People have questioned the Emirates sponsorship thing are they in or out. Tnz runs on roughly 1/3 the budget of most other teams. They have never had a billionaire benefactor like all other teams. Revenue? 2000 defense returned nearly 1 billion with infrastructure costs and outlays.
Cheers Brad. Good to have this kind of data. Sounds like a well run event can at least break even. Do you think ETNZ are being greedy turning down the $99mil?
@@FastForwardSailing no. I dont like our govt depite what you might hear over there. They are not supporting the economy very well or plans that generate actual income. I have not heard numbers about this last AC but, believe it will have paid for itself easily in the worst conditions. That we won and get a chance to defend again actually makes a second defense here more important because it would be all profit second time round.
@@hurri7720 fundamentally investing, not sponsoring, the Americas cup is an economically intelligent decision. If it brings money in that would not otherwise come, nz needs it. Now more than ever. To me the pragmatic in me says its an easy choice.
It’s because you’re abbreviating from the America’s Cup race, or the America’s Cup regatta, not actually referring to the cup itself. Like the World Cup, people usually mean the tournament, not the trophy. So, ‘the’ is correct I think.
The main thing and the most important thing is that it's not a two team solution, there has to be competition between more than two teams to win the AC or it becomes a total joke. I really hope at least the Americans and Italy will take part again. And of course it should be in NZ preferably. If it's all about money just put the thing on ebay.
What does that even mean? Or did you (noting the lack of punctuation in your possibly tragically truncated sentence) get taken by aliens in mid thought? Cheers, D.
@@mikejones-go8vz You're really going to tell me to be precise when your opening sentence is wrong? And then you leave me hanging with no punctuation at the end (?) of your sentence. What gives? Did you get spirited away by aliens as well? For the record, 'America' is The United States of America. 'The Americas' is what you're thinking about and yes, it include North and South America. And in North America we can find 'America'. All of which makes my original comment valid and shows you to be a CZcams warrior with no clue. Do you now have anything productive to add to the conversation or will you resort to another snappy comeback? FFS, I wasn't even talking to you.
I haven't seen the specific financials but if 99million is combined hosting fee and team funding the money wouldn't go too far to cover both but again I don't know the specific event running costs.
Yeah, as you say, it's hard to assess the running costs. Should be less than last time with all the infrastructure in place. But I expect it would be hard to keep it below 99mil
I don’t think they’ve published details, but an article in the NZ Herald quoted Dalton as saying the $99 million is a lot of money, but it wasn’t straight up cash. It included things like tax relief, which is not quite the same as cash.
then choose a cheaper boat for the series, only three challengers could afford it last time, and plenty of of other teams showed interest, this is not just about NZ, although that by itself should be well enough, it is about others who were excluded by the cost
@@J.Smith-rc6wh yeah, I think the boat was cheaper the development cost of the F50 but maybe sticking with the same design for another cycle would’ve been cheaper. Especially given the relocation costs to NZ on top. But being cutting edge is part of the America’s Cup, it’s as about the designers (and the lawyers) as the sailing.
The only thing wrong in Auckland in the last Cup was the lack of challengers. Otherwise, it was perfect and one of the very few places in the COVID world where it could have been hosted. I don’t want to see the AC only available to the very few richest countries so I could be persuaded that a venue in Europe or the Middle East would be good for the AC if it attracts more challengers. But if I’m forced to watch the next Cup in a spectacular venue like Auckland or Bermuda once again, I’d be OK with that. Team NZ faces very real financing problems to protect its team and mount an effective campaign for the next Cup. The NZ government seems low but that is a political decision. Excellent video as I’ve come to expect and appreciate.
AC36 was very well done. As you say, it only lacked more challengers which they are trying to improve for next time. If not NZ I like the idea of a middle eastern venue too. Close enough to Europe to help new challengers. First time hosted in Asia ever, and home to NZ's title sponsor for so many years. P.s. Thanks for the support :)
NZ gets a lot of income through their performance and reputation for ingenuity, staying afloat and representing NZ is important. A lot NZers sadly don’t like the amount of public money that goes in to it, and that needs to considered, too. I love the romance of it being held back in the Solent, and watching a U.K. team beat an American syndicate to there would be awesome - but it wouldn’t count if they didn’t earn it first. Heart says NZ, but is it better for the cup (and TNZ) to be held somewhere more accessible? Argghh, glad it’s Dalton’s decision!
You are so right, and as a NZer, who tried and failed, then got up and earnt the right to bring it home, I want you to have that experience to, to bring the cup home the right way, much more exciting and satisfying. So challenging, you have to win away from home against all odds, makes it special. Makes it epic. Any other way dilutes the experience into yet another also ran.
@@J.Smith-rc6wh completely agree. I’m actually a kiwi and I’ve still got a KZ7 t-shirt somewhere. Would the AC mean as much if the wasn’t a great story behind it? That’s what the U.K. needs - the world’s oldest sporting trophy comes home. I live by the Solent now, and the AC is not that big here, and it won’t get the public profile like it has at NZ unless there’s a story of triumph to go with it.
Mostly the cup is funded by rich people not nations. For instance, when has the US government ever funded AC? To get more teams the most important thing might be continuity of design over several cup series. Even the richest peoples sailing team owners blanch at the cost of developing a completely new AC boat every 3 years. The deed of gift makes such a thing very tricky. The deed of gift is indeed a gift, to the barristers.
Cheaper boats would be better for both NZ team, and also would attract more teams to compete again, we are already down to three challengers, which does not do the cup any good. If they used 45 foot boats, it would be 1/3 the cost, and you could still see them easily from the water. Win Win
@@J.Smith-rc6wh first time, new boat, small fleet. The first fixed wing cat/tri was a two team event. The next cup will be the test. The proven tech should see more teams next time.
@@108hindu agree but a one design does not offer the challenge of evolution of the sport. Tiptoeing that line is important. Fortunately, the cant system works pretty well, as long as humans do their bit properly. As for funding, tnz runs on 1/3 of other teams budgets. That Elison and friends choose to throw 3 times the amount, is purely down to pour management, as has been well established by TNZ for 25 plus years
@@bradclifton5248 Actually AC ran a strict design concept for many years. Like in the 80’s for instance. Then they reworked that design in the 90’s and used that one for a few cups. Because of that continuity we had lots of teams in the 90’s. The 89 cup is an obviously different animal because of the legal challenge involved. As far as team NZ. I don’t recall them having held the cup for 25 years. Alinghi’s big budget beat NZ as I remember. Twice? Then Ellison brought it back to the USA with a deed of gift match. Ellison then won it again in 13, in the best cup match in history. Oracle then came up with a cheaper to build boat that more people could afford to compete in. Like the cats or not, there were indeed more teams that competed. NZ is a great and talented team that always gets great return for the money. The current design is only a good idea if it’s kept intact long enough to get more people interested in mounting a challenge. The field has gotten much smaller since 2016. There is a reason for that. You act like it’s just a matter of good management, but that hasn’t always won you the cup has it? It’s much more complicated than you make it to be. To complicated to debate well debate in this format.
Hosting rights for the Americs Cup must be worth a lot more than 70 million, Japan is spending 22 billion on the Olympics, surely the Auld Mug is worth at least a billion.
Please, alinghi did not poach team nz. The management had already decided to go forward under Sir Peter Blake. They had been replaced on the boat by Barker and Pepper. Alinghi got the best cast offs ever and it hurt nz till another pragmatist fought his way to lead the team. But no one cared till it bit us in the arse.
I'm sure it will be in England... more than Any Arabic Countries or any Oriental countries ...they have money but no many followers. May be in Ireland? In this case.... The English will be very mad.. And Ben Ainslie...also
I think the UK seems most likely. Ireland seem to be showing more active interest. As a Brit I wouldn't mind as it's still close :). Some Brits might be annoyed though
Bermuda has a lot of plus points. Weather for one. But I like the idea of increasing the number of teams which would make a European or middle eastern venue preferable
Sydney is the obvious choice. Best harbour in the world and home of the wing keel that the Kiwis copied anyway. Australia knows how to put on a big event much better than NZ. A big plus would be that there's more Kiwis in Sydney than Auckland . If Team NZ. Wins Australia could claim the cup. If they lost we could point out what they did wrong. P.S. The silver fern could still be displayed on the sail next to the boxing Kangaroo.
![New SailGP Team [All We Know So Far About Team Switzerland]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/58IPeWprVIo/mqdefault.jpg)
It is somewhat obscene don't you think that the NZ government offer of a 100 million dollars to a bunch of millionaires gets turned down because it isn't enough! Especially when you consider a lot of other sports get nothing in any form of assistance or grants and would be greatly appreciative of even just a tiny percentage of what is being offered to Team NZ. I think the whole America's cup thing gets grossly devalued when there is nothing to support anymore, which will be the case if Dalton and co. go off shore chasing extra millions. Bye bye Dalton and any national support if your aspirations come to fruition.
I'm from NZ and would love for the next America's cup to be hosted in NZ, even if it's in a different city perhaps. Auckland is the ideal location, the infrastructure is already there as mentioned with part of the govt spending of $250 going towards that. I'm no expert but I feel NZD$99 is a fair if not generous offer, considering the pandemic and what has already been invested by the people of NZ vs the lack of forecasted economic boost through the event itself, also due to the pandemic . As with most major sporting events, often the host nation doesn't make a profit.
We're a small nation and don't exactly have a huge budget to throw on an event like this, no matter how good we are.
Still, I hope it does stay in the city of sails.
What about New Zealanders support for Team NZ, I for one wouldn't go out of my way to follow them if it goes off shore. Just wait for the results on the news.
I don't see much point in supporting Team Screw New Zealand.
Well, as a Kiwi I’ll be keeping my money, what’s the point in holding the cup if not to get people to your country
Of course there will be a higher bid. The gulf states can always find the money. Th NZ government bid is a fair and reasonable amount of taxpayers money. Going off shore will risk loosing the goodwill of the New Zealand public. They need to remember the origins of the New Zealand challenge when people around the country donated money to help the early challenges. Peter Blake mortgaged his house to fund an early challenge deposit. I'm sure the All Blacks could get fantastic sponsorship if they played all their home tests in Japan.....but that's not the point. The New Zealand public have always looked on the cup are THEIR challenge, even if it's an overseas sponsored team. To take it away from them is a huge risk, especially if they lose. Nobody will be putting their hand in their pockets in New Zealand to fund another challenge if that happens.
Let's not forget, it's about benefits to Auckland businesses having it here, not about loyalty that's second. Turning down 99mil is greedy? Remember Mayweather doesn't get in the ring for anything less than 300mil and Soccer transfers in the hundreds of millions. This is a billion-dollar event spanning months of sailing, not a one-off boxing match for half a billion... allow the funding to reflect that wherever in the world it's held, we'll win anywhere on this planet regardless
Who got the bulk of that money though?,break that down for us.
Keep it home... this is where the passion for sailing is!!
Personally I want our home to go off the worlds radar for a while
Dalton & TNZ want 60% salary increase for crew & critical staff to ensure they stay onboard for next cup & not grabbed by other overseas syndicates. That's just greedy, what about loyalty to NZ & everything we have put in so far? Let sponsors pay up more, not us taxpayers.
I think so. Better to risk losing the cup but retain the moral high-ground than vice versa.
I can't believe the amount of taxpayer money that has already gone into ETNZ over the years. Couldn't see that happening in any other country.
People talk about loyalty to team NZ. How many of those people would forgo a big wage increase to stay with their current employer? Loyalty only goes so far.
Money speaks very loudly.
Seems like a ruse with the rules theyve established about Nationality etc .. especially if they're aiming for a quick turn around .. just trying to game the govt
@@108hindu so do Nationality rules - it's just smoke
Yeah and as much as I love the AC, most of the design and on board team at etnz are multimillionaires and dont need the money..They just want the money.Speaks volumes about any desire to the best for New Zealand and represent this country,,,hypocrites and to think Dalton was so anti Coutts.Almost acting in the same manner,money first loyalty second
If they leave we (NZ) should ask them to stop using New Zealand as part of there team name. Instead of wearing a silver fern on their shirts they should wear their sponsors logo.
Team Traitor would be a apt name, or Team Anything for Money . . .
Money or NZ? You going overseas and that's the end of TNZ. The Country will not support you anymore.
We are a small country…. With Covid, there was no profit. Who knows what the future holds.
"They still have the option of coming back to Auckland" Why? This is big money sport. If there is no loyalty why should the offer not be withdrawn if it is unacceptable.
What benefit do countries get from spending enormous sums of money to subsidize non participatory sports?
Well if they do go offshore then they shouldn't expect anything further from the NZ taxpayer...
I’m from NZ.. Your interpretation of the press release is a bit askew. There has been an ‘exclusive negotiation period’ within which Team NZ was exclusively bound to negotiate with the NZ govt. Now Team NZ is able to explore alternative venue bids, these can be then considered as options.. Team NZ is hell -bent on defending the next AC successfully
Thanks for clarifying Geoff. I thought I had mentioned that. When I'm reading I forget which bits I've read out! Either way it's unusual for a winning AC team to even look at international venues
@@FastForwardSailing I agree it’s unusual, but the possible effect of the next period of negotiation might be to establish that Auckland is in fact the best venue.. from a negotiation standpoint, until one assesses an option against another option, one can’t rate one over the other.
I like many fellow kiwis, hope the outcome is to hold the event in Auckland.. but there needs to be enough money to be able to fund a viable defence (is the ‘party line’..)
@@Kiwigd Yeah, certainly they could go for Aukland if there are no great bids. I could see that happening. Will be an interesting next few months
Hey Geoff. I suspect the exclusive negotiation was a ruse. No matter how much the govt spent, ETNZ could always reject it and use it as a crowbar to jack up the price for the non-exclusive period. Lose-lose for the NZ govt. Makes a complete mockery of the concept of Team New Zealand.
@@jameslittlewood7663 mate, I suspect you are exactly correct.. that’s exactly my interpretation too..
these rich people have had their hands out for years.
Thanks for stating the truth.Dalton is a tribe member.
You'll notice that the 5 million stolen from the govt funding news has gone down the memory hole.(deposited in an Hungarian bank account)
I hope they stay with the AC75 design.
Not new Zealanders are tired about that kind of trophy, but the world wide is. Too much money, too much useless speed in that competition, just a helm, a mainsail and stop.... Then a lot of arms working. That's no sailing. It's boring.
Considering the NZ govt is a huge sponsor of the team it would be intereresting to see what effect it has on how much they are willing to give. For the NZ govt, having the race in NZ is the return on the investment. Having it raced elsewhere will mean NZ govt gets little return on its investment and will reconsider the sponsorship.
You mean the New Zealand taxpayer. The NZ Government doesn't have any money.
@@haroldgodwinson832 No, I mean the NZ govt. As representatives of the tax payers they govern where the money collected through tax be spent.
@@bremCZ "Representatives of taxpayers". WTF are you talking about? They don't 'represent taxpayers'. They represent those voters they agreed to enrich at the expense of another group of voters. And of course, large numbers of the socialist clowns who voted for these idiots wouldn't pay any tax at all.
I'd imagine that last Americas cup didn't get the return NZ was expecting because of covid. Economically the country is doing well relative to the world, and is growing, but any public money has to go to continue stimulating the economy.
Love to see cup race here in New Zealand and see hw long team nz can hold the cup .ido believe this time going to be hard for any team trying to take the cup off team nz .good luck team nz
The next America’s Cup races need to be held on a course long enough that a race is more than just laps of up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down the course. At least la-s that require several turns per lap, more like auto races.
They will change the course is was something they identified and would alter
No you are very wrong there, it has to fit TV, it's match racing at best. Ocean racing is something totally different.
I don't think it would be a good idea to convert the AC into a Sail GP format competition. We already have a popular sailing event like that, although I understand the growing concerns of the long hiatus. It's a valid argument. Another option would be to _reduce_ the hiatus, maybe down to every three or even two years. That way interest in the AC can be better maintained in the interim. As for venue, I'm not that particular. I just want a location where good wind is guaranteed every day! Does that place exist? If so, hold the event there!
I agree. Host it more often. More cost effective that way too.
On the wind... I don't think guaranteed good wind exists! But there are certainly some areas better than others. That seems like a priority for a venue. Especially important for the live footage which is how most fans watch
@@FastForwardSailing BTW, how is Barcelona in regards to wind? It seems well favored but being by the Mediterranean wouldn't the wind be at either extreme?
@@jamesaron1967 I can't comment on Barcelona as I've not sailed there. I have sailed in Majorca which is close but it's an island so could be very different wind. Majorca's wind is pretty good.
You don't hear of that many races hosted in Barca so that could indicate it's not that great
More regular racing would require fundamental changes to the deed of gift. Winner is allowed to set the rules, including the class of yacht sailed. Two years would never allow enough development time for any new class. I know many people argue that the AC should still be raced on 12m monohulls but that's what has always made the AC unique. Winner sets the rules. The AC has always been about pushing the limits of tech. That may not have been foreseen when the rule writers came up with the idea, but it's the natural outcome of it, and I think it has become quite an important aspect that should not be overlooked.
Team New Zealand while I loved the coverage of the event on your home waters this year and would love for you to defend it in New Zealand. If that is not going to happen come back to Bermuda to defend it. You did amazingly well in 2017. Bermuda would love to host another cup
Alinghi had to host elsewhere since Americas Cup is offshore racing and Switzerland doesn't have a shore to a ocean/sea for offshore racing ;)
It could well be held on the Great lakes but the Swiss lakes are probably not reliable regarding the wind strengths although there is a lot of good sailing there too. It would actually surprise me if the word offshore was mentioned in the rules as it was a default and perhaps thus not mentioned. And I could be wrong of course.
Unfortunately Grant Dalton doesn't understand that in hosting the Americas Cup the costs are now so extreme that the trophy has become devalued. The RNZYS holder of the cup have I believe handed over its future to Team NZ a seriously bad move. We believe the present crew that won this year are not keen on defending the cup offshore. Of the venues mentioned only one might be suitable for the races to be held that is Cork the others Dubai China Isle of Wight are or maybe oozing with money but not the right conditions. In fact I will predict that if Team NZ race in Cork with maybe a new yacht they will lose the Americas Cup. We are not impressed with Daltons yet to be confirmed decision to take the trophy overseas just for MONEY. Because money lowers the value of the event.
You wont get public support if you leave NZ. End of! Sack Dalton
He cannot do the job with 99 million, get someone who can, and if he takes it off shore, the country will not forget it, or back with their own money any of his future projects, like we have done with so many of his projects before(round world racing before america's cup). Shameful how he is taking us and our loyalty for granted
Any place that has serious dependable wind UK San Francisco New Zealand or Cork... Dubai would be a risk. The city of Alameda in San Francisco bay would be a good venue without San Francisco politics getting in the way. New York in San Diego are lousy options... in the US
The cup should never go back to the USA unless they WIN IT!
Besides that the US is not a Safe place to send overseas teams!
If they can't protect their own Capital and seat of government, how can they be trusted to protect our sailors?
Should be called slow forward, I needed watch at 1.5x
the cases havnt been high but when the last america's cup had no out of country travelers coming to watch im guessing that the return of investment that the govenment had been betting on wasnt there
Tourism has been destroyed as one of our top 3 earners. 15% of businesses is some parts have shut down. The AC done asap could actually save nz tourism.
I agree with that. Run the AC sooner and the cost comes down- 2022 perhaps
True, but would that give enough time for more syndicates to be ready? To really benefit we need the Cup to be watched all over the world as a big advert for NZ. A re-run of the last regatta with so few challengers may not generate much interest.
@@unikittythegamer4515 true. That is where the hoopla needs to settle down and govt offer necessary assurances of an open borders regatta.
There are zero excuses once the vaccine is rolled out, for this to happen as normal.
Definitely greed ,the work that was done on our waterfront was outstanding and is well suited for a successful defence
Why do you say "we all know there is plenty of money in Saudi Arabia" when talking about Dubai? Dubai is one of the Emirates in the United Arab Emirates, who are a completely different country to Saudi Arabia and not all that friendly to them either. UAE is far more modern and open than Saudi Arabia.
Arent Ineos based in Portsmouth? Good vid. Thank you
Yes I believe they still are. I actually worked for them a few years ago there. But it's still the solent so home turf. Many of the team are from the IOW and the yacht club behind Ineos is Royal Yacht Squadron in Cowes. Brits will be very happy with logistics if they pull this one off.
You have said that "Cowes is the base for ineos team uk" this is incorrect and the base is Portsmouth.
That's true (I used to work there). But it is on the Solent so it would effectively be a "home match" for them. Also the yacht club behind Ineos is based there. Probably should have been clearer though
Would have been cool to bring it to Lake Wakatipu. Queenstown would offer a great place to host and view the racing. If they do choose an alternative site, perhaps the UAE waters would be ideal, for Emirates commitment to our team.
I reckon there would still be the $$ issue anywhere in NZ. Looked it up on google and looks like a lovely venue though.
I think UAE does tock a lot of boxes. Might be a claim to fame for NZ - the first team to host the cup in Asia
super embarassing, we went to the cup, and Auckland made a fantastic job of hosting, and it highlighted Auckland at it's best, and 7500 boats went out to support them, it was great fun. I also think a change to smaller cheaper boats is necessary, because three competitors trying to win it from us, this has just got too expensive for most teams. Australia, Japan, China, Switzerland, France and few others found this last cup too expensive to attend, with the boats prohibitively expensive. I also would say that local knowledge won them the secound last race, so home turf advantage was a factor. Team NZ is backed by our government and they are using tax payers money, and why would we put our tax money into an overseas event, Seriously? Would you want your government spending millions of dollars on a team that turned their back on you? Not a popular move for any government and fair enough.
If they take it offshore I am done with the america's cup, I do not support traitors, who brought the cup here, then willfully took it away for money, scumbag move.
This sounds like SailGP. If you haven’t watched SailGP, the racing is so much better than AC. Makes matching racing look boring
Still I believe the cheapest solution right now is to stick to the same now.
This is just Dalton trying to negotiate a better deal. If I was Arden, I wouldn’t budge.
They lose my support. Ineos never won!
If it has to go elsewhere,I would hope there can be a pre regatta match here in Auckland,to help offset losses last year .
The reality is that we aren't big enough to keep it here. Not everyone in NZ is interested in the Americas cup in fact in reality there a only a small percentage who are. We all take an interest in it when it's on because we do have good success with yachting world wide but once it's over we don't care or even follow it. There is alot more money to be made in the bigger markets around the world and lets face it, the Americas cup is a business and business is about money
To you question - anywhere but the UK!! But prefer NZ.
I think many agree with you. I'm British so secretly wouldn't mind but really I think we should win it first
How probable is it, that with non public input behind the scenes from other teams, that deviance from the five eyes agreement has something to do with hosting resistance?
People have questioned the Emirates sponsorship thing are they in or out.
Tnz runs on roughly 1/3 the budget of most other teams. They have never had a billionaire benefactor like all other teams.
Revenue? 2000 defense returned nearly 1 billion with infrastructure costs and outlays.
Cheers Brad. Good to have this kind of data. Sounds like a well run event can at least break even. Do you think ETNZ are being greedy turning down the $99mil?
@@FastForwardSailing no. I dont like our govt depite what you might hear over there. They are not supporting the economy very well or plans that generate actual income.
I have not heard numbers about this last AC but, believe it will have paid for itself easily in the worst conditions. That we won and get a chance to defend again actually makes a second defense here more important because it would be all profit second time round.
@@bradclifton5248 , in a two party system it's sort of easy to see your point for what ever it's worth.
@@hurri7720 fundamentally investing, not sponsoring, the Americas cup is an economically intelligent decision. If it brings money in that would not otherwise come, nz needs it. Now more than ever. To me the pragmatic in me says its an easy choice.
@@bradclifton5248, So keep it in NZ then, people will bring money with them.
“The” America’s Cup? Really? It’s a cup named after the vessel America, isn’t it? As in America’s Cup, not THE America’s Cup.
That's certainly true. I don't think it would be gramatically correct though to say "Where will America's Cup be held?"
It’s because you’re abbreviating from the America’s Cup race, or the America’s Cup regatta, not actually referring to the cup itself. Like the World Cup, people usually mean the tournament, not the trophy. So, ‘the’ is correct I think.
The main thing and the most important thing is that it's not a two team solution, there has to be competition between more than two teams to win the AC or it becomes a total joke.
I really hope at least the Americans and Italy will take part again.
And of course it should be in NZ preferably. If it's all about money just put the thing on ebay.
AUSTRALIA. SYDNEY. WOULD. BE. IDEAL.
There's plenty of countries in America that would love to host this
No thanks 🙂
What does that even mean? Or did you (noting the lack of punctuation in your possibly tragically truncated sentence) get taken by aliens in mid thought? Cheers, D.
@@fodank America is Canada down to Chile to be precise
@@mikejones-go8vz You're really going to tell me to be precise when your opening sentence is wrong? And then you leave me hanging with no punctuation at the end (?) of your sentence. What gives? Did you get spirited away by aliens as well?
For the record, 'America' is The United States of America. 'The Americas' is what you're thinking about and yes, it include North and South America. And in North America we can find 'America'.
All of which makes my original comment valid and shows you to be a CZcams warrior with no clue. Do you now have anything productive to add to the conversation or will you resort to another snappy comeback? FFS, I wasn't even talking to you.
@@fodank get a life, chill out 😂and you said,’ YOU sentence’ such bad spelling 🤔🙄
I haven't seen the specific financials but if 99million is combined hosting fee and team funding the money wouldn't go too far to cover both but again I don't know the specific event running costs.
Yeah, as you say, it's hard to assess the running costs. Should be less than last time with all the infrastructure in place. But I expect it would be hard to keep it below 99mil
I don’t think they’ve published details, but an article in the NZ Herald quoted Dalton as saying the $99 million is a lot of money, but it wasn’t straight up cash. It included things like tax relief, which is not quite the same as cash.
then choose a cheaper boat for the series, only three challengers could afford it last time, and plenty of of other teams showed interest, this is not just about NZ, although that by itself should be well enough, it is about others who were excluded by the cost
@@J.Smith-rc6wh yeah, I think the boat was cheaper the development cost of the F50 but maybe sticking with the same design for another cycle would’ve been cheaper. Especially given the relocation costs to NZ on top. But being cutting edge is part of the America’s Cup, it’s as about the designers (and the lawyers) as the sailing.
The only thing wrong in Auckland in the last Cup was the lack of challengers. Otherwise, it was perfect and one of the very few places in the COVID world where it could have been hosted. I don’t want to see the AC only available to the very few richest countries so I could be persuaded that a venue in Europe or the Middle East would be good for the AC if it attracts more challengers. But if I’m forced to watch the next Cup in a spectacular venue like Auckland or Bermuda once again, I’d be OK with that.
Team NZ faces very real financing problems to protect its team and mount an effective campaign for the next Cup. The NZ government seems low but that is a political decision.
Excellent video as I’ve come to expect and appreciate.
AC36 was very well done. As you say, it only lacked more challengers which they are trying to improve for next time. If not NZ I like the idea of a middle eastern venue too. Close enough to Europe to help new challengers. First time hosted in Asia ever, and home to NZ's title sponsor for so many years.
P.s. Thanks for the support :)
It’s all about $$$ ⚓️
I'm afraid so
always has been, it's the AC.
Anywhere but China!
NZ gets a lot of income through their performance and reputation for ingenuity, staying afloat and representing NZ is important. A lot NZers sadly don’t like the amount of public money that goes in to it, and that needs to considered, too. I love the romance of it being held back in the Solent, and watching a U.K. team beat an American syndicate to there would be awesome - but it wouldn’t count if they didn’t earn it first. Heart says NZ, but is it better for the cup (and TNZ) to be held somewhere more accessible? Argghh, glad it’s Dalton’s decision!
You are so right, and as a NZer, who tried and failed, then got up and earnt the right to bring it home, I want you to have that experience to, to bring the cup home the right way, much more exciting and satisfying. So challenging, you have to win away from home against all odds, makes it special. Makes it epic. Any other way dilutes the experience into yet another also ran.
@@J.Smith-rc6wh completely agree. I’m actually a kiwi and I’ve still got a KZ7 t-shirt somewhere. Would the AC mean as much if the wasn’t a great story behind it? That’s what the U.K. needs - the world’s oldest sporting trophy comes home. I live by the Solent now, and the AC is not that big here, and it won’t get the public profile like it has at NZ unless there’s a story of triumph to go with it.
I'm a Kiwi,I think team NZ are getting greedy ,they forget who has given them a hand up in the past,I hope they fail miserably now.
bugger may it gone..........sailing away
What would honestly feed the sport. A host nation that can fund it and would generate more teams in the future.
Mostly the cup is funded by rich people not nations. For instance, when has the US government ever funded AC? To get more teams the most important thing might be continuity of design over several cup series. Even the richest peoples sailing team owners blanch at the cost of developing a completely new AC boat every 3 years.
The deed of gift makes such a thing very tricky. The deed of gift is indeed a gift, to the barristers.
Cheaper boats would be better for both NZ team, and also would attract more teams to compete again, we are already down to three challengers, which does not do the cup any good. If they used 45 foot boats, it would be 1/3 the cost, and you could still see them easily from the water. Win Win
@@J.Smith-rc6wh first time, new boat, small fleet. The first fixed wing cat/tri was a two team event. The next cup will be the test. The proven tech should see more teams next time.
@@108hindu agree but a one design does not offer the challenge of evolution of the sport. Tiptoeing that line is important. Fortunately, the cant system works pretty well, as long as humans do their bit properly.
As for funding, tnz runs on 1/3 of other teams budgets. That Elison and friends choose to throw 3 times the amount, is purely down to pour management, as has been well established by TNZ for 25 plus years
@@bradclifton5248 Actually AC ran a strict design concept for many years. Like in the 80’s for instance. Then they reworked that design in the 90’s and used that one for a few cups. Because of that continuity we had lots of teams in the 90’s. The 89 cup is an obviously different animal because of the legal challenge involved. As far as team NZ. I don’t recall them having held the cup for 25 years. Alinghi’s big budget beat NZ as I remember. Twice? Then Ellison brought it back to the USA with a deed of gift match. Ellison then won it again in 13, in the best cup match in history. Oracle then came up with a cheaper to build boat that more people could afford to compete in. Like the cats or not, there were indeed more teams that competed.
NZ is a great and talented team that always gets great return for the money. The current design is only a good idea if it’s kept intact long enough to get more people interested in mounting a challenge. The field has gotten much smaller since 2016. There is a reason for that. You act like it’s just a matter of good management, but that hasn’t always won you the cup has it? It’s much more complicated than you make it to be. To complicated to debate well debate in this format.
Hosting rights for the Americs Cup must be worth a lot more than 70 million, Japan is spending 22 billion on the Olympics, surely the Auld Mug is worth at least a billion.
Please, alinghi did not poach team nz. The management had already decided to go forward under Sir Peter Blake. They had been replaced on the boat by Barker and Pepper. Alinghi got the best cast offs ever and it hurt nz till another pragmatist fought his way to lead the team. But no one cared till it bit us in the arse.
Australia would be my pick.
greedy
I'm sure it will be in England... more than Any Arabic Countries or any Oriental countries ...they have money but no many followers.
May be in Ireland?
In this case....
The English will be very mad..
And Ben Ainslie...also
I think the UK seems most likely. Ireland seem to be showing more active interest. As a Brit I wouldn't mind as it's still close :). Some Brits might be annoyed though
I can't see why TNZ would want to give home advantage to a challenger.
Only a mad Englishman would get mad if it's not held in England.
Sail GP is far better racing. I don't think I will spend money to watch the AC37's again.
Go back to Bermuda!
Bermuda has a lot of plus points. Weather for one. But I like the idea of increasing the number of teams which would make a European or middle eastern venue preferable
Sydney is the obvious choice. Best harbour in the world and home of the wing keel that the Kiwis copied anyway. Australia knows how to put on a big event much better than NZ. A big plus would be that there's more Kiwis in Sydney than Auckland . If Team NZ. Wins Australia could claim the cup. If they lost we could point out what they did wrong. P.S. The silver fern could still be displayed on the sail next to the boxing Kangaroo.
Win your own race clown