Why A Saddle Is Safer Than A Tree Stand
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2022
- Why A Saddle Is Safer Than A Tree Stand
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What it comes down to for me is the best part of saddle hunting is the pack in and set up, but it’s hard to beat sitting down in a tree and being still.
Yep well worth packing and setting up a stand for me personally.
Great video man! I’ve watched a ton of your sticks and stand videos numerous times. Thank you! Keep up the good work!
Thanks! Glad you enjoy them
I as many other saddle hunters (should) applaud you sir, as someone who openly doesn’t saddle hunt it’s awesome you would still speak on the positives of a saddle, it’s even crazy that I view that as something rare (as it shouldn’t be) most would never speak against their method, or admit another method is better in any way. This is probably, as most of your videos, is the most logical video I’ve seen in a while.
Appreciate that! I have always tried to make videos that help others and educate them. Sometime that's a tuffhead I may not use but know enough about to help others with thier research and planning.
@@SamkoTradBow this was refreshing to watch. Safety is strictly the factor that got me to switch from my climber. Main thing for me was gaining trust in the ropes lol Now I know better but at first it was hard to wrap my head around the ropes being that strong.
@@The_Fit_ness_monster yep trusting your gear takes a little getting used to!
@@The_Fit_ness_monster Your post implies that you believe a saddle to be safer than a stand. This I 100% disagree, and not because I believe stands are somehow100% safer, but rather, that an all in approach like this video is inherently flawed. As I've pointed out to tradbowpodcast, both systems are equally safe and equally dangerous. There is no, "this" is safer than "that" because you have to define what "this" and "that" is. It depends on the specifics of the system employed. You will not convince me that a saddle is safer than my system using a buckshot deer stand, something I've used for over 20 years(the very same stand with close to 1000 climbs). My stand setup has a hanging seat I designed and built myself which keeps the hunter safe even if the bottom bracket completely fell out from under because it's made of 2" webbing webbing(200lb rating) to form a seat pocket to support the rear and the back like a hung rectangular hammock and then a wood piece in the front to keep the seat open so the sides don't compress against your thighs like many swing style seats do. Through the center is a a 2" webbing between the crotch to prevent sliding out of the seat. Of course, this never is even needed in the sitting position, your bottom is slightly lower than the wood piece and the webbing acts like a cup holding you in place. On top of this, I employ a life line. I use a moveable anchor just like how some saddle hunters do. As I go up, I move my anchor up. It' always kept at least chest high or higher. So in my system, though I consider it a two-tier redundant system, it's actually three tiers of redundancy. For me to fall out, my bottom has to fail, then my top, and then, my life line, which encompasses a dynamic climbing rope rated for 8.6kN and 6 UIAA falls. I anchor to it with two 7mm accessory chords as friction hitches which serves as redundancy should one fail. These have a MBS(minimum breaking strength) of 12.4kN or almost 2800 lbs per line.
Let's see what a saddle hunter has for his/her setup. For a standard saddle hunter who one sticks, all they have is a tether as they climb, the most dangerous part of a saddle hunter. The one common mistake I see with saddle hunters is that when they stand up on the platform. In this position, they are totally exposed and the tether's anchor is at their foot. With the length of their tether and the attachment system for the saddle, this equates to a fall factor that is greater than 1. This is very, very dangerous. Saddles are fall restraint systems, not fall arrest systems. When they are used to catch you during a fall, they are acting as a fall arrest system and this is not what they are designed for. A fall factor of 1 means you fall the distance of your rope before it starts to arrest your fall. A fall factor of greater than 1 means you fall greater than the length of your rope before it starts to arrest your fall and that's what is the case here. Fall factors greater than 1 induces tremendous shock load on the body. It can break you or it can break the saddle. Remember, saddles are not designed to arrest falls. Instead, they are designed to keep you from falling in the first place. Using them as a fall arrest system is not the correct usage of this product. When you are standing on your one stick platform and your tether is anchored at your feet, this saddle is no longer a fall restraint system; it now is acting as a fall arrrest system, something designed to safely catch a person in the event of a fall. Where in the literature of saddles is there any mention that this is the intended use of these saddles? Depending on your level of physical fitness and how much you weigh, it can lead to serious injurious or even death. The heavier one is and the less fit you are, the greater your injuries are going to be. If the saddle holds, you could break a back, break your neck, cut open your head, or any of a number of serious injuries. If you survive the fall, you could be dangling to the point where blood circulation becomes a problem. In 2022, a saddle hunter died due to suffocation. He was found still conscious by a squirrel hunter in the upright position only 6 ft off the ground but the hunter was unable to get him down. He passed out and went inverted and died as a result of this accident. He was dangling for not a very long time. Phone records and when the rescue occurred showed he was in the tree less than an hour, so in less than an hour, he lost his life. This is why it's folly to think that if you are a saddle hunter, you are somehow inherently safer.
I disagree with the assessment of this video entirely because it's lumping everything into a saddle vs stand thing. It's just not that simple. To do so is just irresponsible because it sends out the wrong message. There are going to be saddle hunters who will patting themselves on the back continuing to do what they do, even if it's dangerous, because this video supports what they want to hear. We become our own worst enemies. When we want to believe something, we immediately look for things to confirm our beliefs and that's what this video does. Just read your own words:
Safety is strictly the factor that got me to switch from my climber
You inherently believe that when comparing these systems as a whole, one is safer than the other and that couldn't be further from the truth. My system of stand climbing has essentially 3 tiers of redundancy in all, but I say it's only 2 tiers because my seat is designed to switch from tree-facing during the climb to away-from-the-tree during the hunt. I release two carabiners to allow me to transition between the two positions. During this phase, on the stand and the lifeline is what's backing me up and as such, it only has 2-tier redundancy 100% of the time. A saddle on the other hand will never have 2-tier redundancy unless you used two saddles, and no one is going to do that. To be redundant, systems have to be 100% independent of one another.
This is why I disagree with this video's assessment. I get it, tradbowpodcast is not a saddle hunter so he in all likelihood should be saying the exact opposite, but yet here he is speaking against the system he uses so his words must be valid. This couldn't be further from the truth because it ignores the details of the systems employed. I stand by my statement that both systems are equally dangerous and equally safe. What matters is the details of the implementation, not the systems themselves because each can be made safer and each can be made more dangerous depending on the user. I just don't want people to be climbing unsafely and continuing to practice unsafe climbing simply because he agrees with them. What matters is the details of your system, not the method of your system. A redundant system based on two very safe and reliable systems is going to be safer than a single system based on a single reliable system. The fact of the matter is that all systems, no matter how reliable, can fail, whether it's equipment failure, or user error. The fact is they can fail. This is why airplanes have two engines when only one is needed to fly. Just remember, no matter the system you use, it's only as safe as you make it. Don't buy into the "this is safer than that" mentality because it can make you complacent and unsafe. No matter the system, it's up to you to make sure it's safe. It's not the system that keep you safe; rather, it's you, and the choices you make that determines whether you are safe or not. Cheers and stay safe fellow hunters.
Edit: Note, I climb trees recreationally, so I know how safe ropes and harnesses can be. Be it an SRT system or a DRT system or whatever, there is always an element of danger because no system is 100% safe. I have nothing against saddle hunting because it's not like the idea of hanging from a rope is a new concept. Arborists have been doing this forever so it's nothing new. It can be very safe if done right. One-sticking and other climbing systems, now these are new things and they all come with their own dangers. Depending on how you choose to one-stick, it can be relatively safe or it can be outright sketchy. It's not so much the system, but rather, the details of how you implement it. Young guns can go out there and muscle their way through anything. Nothing is hard for them because they have the strength and endurance to do whatever they need to do. For someone that is not so young and not in shape, things that young guns make easy and safe, become hard and dangerous.
I’m really looking at buying one so looking forward to your video on the saddle.
Will be out soon. Just waiting on the info from john
I've used 6 saddles, now I'm back to a beast stand. My problems are personally ones with saddle hunting. For one no matter what I do in a saddle I keep fidgeting and twitching. I don't know if it's because it's fun or what but I just can't help but sway in a saddle and make movement. In a tree stand I am Rock solid and don't move an inch all day. And two I just don't know what it is but I can't stand facing the tree
Agree with everything you said. That's why I do not saddle hunt
I hunt a climber that faces the tree and love it. Each side of the tree gives me a gun rest and I can move the stand to use the tree to block sun or weather.
I don’t think I could sit still in a saddle either.
BTW is Warren Womack dead. No
Videos from him on Utube > a year?
You've made some very good points all I've found to be true using a saddle and a hang on. I think they are equal in how safe they are. My reasoning is with a saddle if you were to have a failure in a carabiner or bridge or made a mistake with a knot, your going for a ride. I think its crucial to inspect your gear carefully but especially with saddle equipment. At least with a stand if the cables or buckle fails you have the harness as a second means of security to keep you from hitting the ground, at least when you've already made your transition into the stand. But as you mentioned it's the transition that's most dangerous in general so it's hard to argue against the safety of a saddle
Great points and well said. Thanks for the great comment
Hey Glenn i make my own ground blinds with woud and branches works perfect
The heat and humidity in Georgia may make you want to not carry a stand LOL
- Early in the video when you said (basically) "I don't know what all this stuff does" reminded me of where I was when I was considering getting a saddle.. But as I watched videos, read and asked questions, obviously it became clearer.. To the point where I am now REALLY excited to try it. I can also see how much more freedom you have to picking trees to hunt from using a saddle.
The safety part of getting on to a platform or stand.... I am thinking that the saddle platform, having a shorter distance from the strap button to the platform than the hang on stand, would make it much less likely to kick out than the hang on after camming it over.
Yep saddles are for sure safer and easy to carry. But I can not stand facing the tree and just hanging there all day. So for me I'd rather carry the stand in and have the all day comfort once on stand. But I sure can see the draw to saddles and why people like them. For me It takes a half hour to walk in and a half hour to walk out, but I'm gonna be in the tree 5 to 10 hours. So worth the half hour carrying the weight.
To me the saddle is not the best functionally, but the level of confidence and security I have using it keeps me hunting off the ground. I've developed a bad fear of heights from a ladder stand folding, a hang on cable snapping, and sliding down the tree in a climber. At least with the saddle I KNOW I'm always tethered in. I still get anxiety dangling there, but knowing that I'm suspended by a rope that would lift my truck allows me to function at height. I even take it a step further and climb with my tether and lineman belt if I'm climbing up multiple sticks.
I do wish I could get in a hang on and feel safe, because overall, I think they would be a very valuable tool in my arsenal.
Glad the saddle give you that extra confidence to hunt from a tree.
I am beginning to like the saddles (or more accurately the climbing harness) more and more. I still like my stands when I am in the tree but prefer the climbing harness to the body harnesses usually recommended and used for tree stands
Agree. I love the rock climbing style harnesses in my tree stands
I’ve been following your videos and considering going to a saddle or hang on. I am having trouble leaving my Buckshot Bigshot stand. I think it’s something about the climber that is more comfortable. Also, I could fall asleep in it and not fall out. I’m not saying sleeping has ever happened…
Saddles are safer for sleeping as you can't fall out of it. Stand wise I love the beast stand, and novix stands.
Hey Jason, any tips on setting up in pine trees? I saddle hunt and will be hybriding with a Beast stand. climbed a few pines, the loose flaky bark scares me sometimes. is it just something to get used to? any pointers? Thanks for the help
Great question and yep I have tips!
1. Bring a small roll of duct tape if you have to cut a pine branch that's behind your back when on stand so you can tape the cut end and keep the sap from sticking to your clothing or stand seat or straps etc.
2. You are correct, the bark can be loose and it's very easy to slip sticks, stand etc. Make are you always use 3 points of contact and a lineman belt when climbing and go slow testing everything before applying full weight.
3. Do not expect the bark to hold to the tree if you are grabbing at it with your finger tips as you climb or position yourself. It will often pull away and you will slip.
4. Always make smaller gaps in your sticks and to the stand on pines so that you are not hyper extending.
5. If using an aider on your sticks don't trust the pine bark to not give away under toe pressure and make sure you are relying more on your arms to support and stabilize you rather than hoping your toe bites the tree solid in the aider to keep your foot from swinging out.
6. Everything mentioned is extremely amplified in wet weather so be extremely careful.
@@SamkoTradBow really appreciate your input and advice on both of the questions I had
thanks a lot!!!!
Beast Stand arrived yesterday
am excited about it will be trying to "hybrid " my saddle with the stand just need to work out a system for that
@@arthurcarstens awesome. That beast stand is amazing!
Great video Jason. Question for you, will these ship to Canada. I am in Ontario and would buy one immediately. thx
I bet he would. Contact John. Tactisaddle.com
Well i am 67 and hunt from natural ground blinds stay safe
I'm looking forward to the day I decide to stop climbing and start ground hunting only. Once stands are no longer fun for me that's my next move
At 75 I am making that transition soon. Just bought one of those new small one person 360 degree view blind. Love it.
I gave up hang ons and ladders 5 years ago. Down to one climber.
I’d like to do a horizontal saddle across a heavy limb, like an adult swing for bow shooting lol.
Sure would be comfortable and you could swing and have fun waiting on the deer to show up🤣
U can be even safer if u keep your linesmans belt and tether on as u set your sticks and climb just work your tether up above u as u go....yes takes a little longer but double safe
Very true. And yes safer. Things get tangled up a bit when you tethered in the front like a rock style harness but it's still doable.
Two years ago when I went from a LW stand to a Predator saddle platform, it was infinitely easier to set up the predator.
Yep saddle systems sure are great today
Where is link to make your lineman belt?
czcams.com/video/E67zxwSMbls/video.html
Hey Jason,
Good job on explaining your position on saddle hunting. People's tribalism for methods are very interesting. Not sure why that happens. If you saddle hunt then you can talk about it. But if you don't saddle hunt then you should not talk about it. If you are a traditional archer then you can only be a traditional archer and never use a gun, compound bow, ext. I don't fully understand that mentality! Maybe one day People will step outside of the walls in there mind and just grow mentally. Will see; good job on your demonstration sir!
So very well said. Even on this video I have been called a "sell out", told they lost respect foe me for talking about saddle hunting because I don't do it, etc. Pretty sad what humanity has come to.
@@SamkoTradBow I don't know what the fix is for this issue. I see it with the compound community, the traditional community and so forth. I wish people would just appreciate the earnest work and efforts of all people that wish to bring higher thinking and enlightening ideas. Keep up the good work sir! I am trying to keep the traditional Archery spirit alive as well but it's not easy! Your work is appreciated.. ty
@@danielcolon4195 thank you. Greatly appreciated and that's all we can do. Lead by example and be nice to other people! A rare commodity these days.
@@SamkoTradBow yes sir!! Thanks for all you do!
A saddle still has a platform to attach just like a stand? Help?
If you want to add a platform. Many people use a ring of steps that straps to the tree or a top of stick saddle step. But even with a platform you never have to slack line a saddle set up
I 100% prefer a stand and sticks. But the simple answer to witch is safer. It's the saddle.
Wow how have time has changed.. last year you said you will NEVER use a saddle ever.. in your older video.. CAN BE TRUSTED WITH THE TRUTH..
Ahhhh watch this video before commenting on what I say in the video. I specifically and very clearly stated that I do not and will not hunt from a saddle. You should actually watch it.
pull your stand up with a drop line.
Great idea but won't make it safer to hang. But still a great idea for those that don't want to climb with a stand on thier back. Thanks for commenting
It all depends on what system you use. There is no one is safer than the other. Both are equally dangerous and equally safe. It depends on what the user chooses to implement. You are not going to convince me one sticking is safer if all one uses is a one stick system with a lineman's belt goinf up. I see saddle hunting vids where when guys are at the top of the stick, their safety line is anchored at their feet. This can lead to serious injury or even death in the event of a fall. With stands, there is such a thing as a lifeline. You are connected from the ground up. Unless some piece of equipment fails, you're going to fine. This can be use for both syatems.
A lifeline has to some how get up the tree to be connected at the top.
@@SamkoTradBow Likewise, a lineman's belt has to somehow go up the tree as well. When I use a stand, a climber that is, I used a movable anchor. Make a figure eight loop, swing it around the tree, and hook it to the the line via two carabiners to form a loop that can easily be moved up. Attach to it with a friction hitch. You do the same as you do one sticking. Move it up as needed. My rule of thumb, anchor is always chest high or above. This way, your stand is backed up by your life line from the ground up. Once up, I use a cinching lineman to achor in, then i release the lifeline and send it around so it loops once over itself before clipping it in. Now it stays put whether there is tension or not. I reattach to the lifeline and release my lineman's and then i proceed to lock down my stand. All in all, waaay safer than saddle anyday in my opinion. Why? The answer is my system has redundancy. The saddle does not unless you use two tiezin lines. A stand alone is sufficient to protect a hunter. Add a lifeline and you have reduncy. A saddle has no redundancy. It relies entirely on the anchor line and no, the foot rests are not redundancy as they cannot keep the hunter up in the event the achoring system fails. Because of the nature of how saddles are used, and anchor system fail means you are going down. So I absolutel disagree with this assessment due to the lack of redundancy in the system. Now if it were to incorporate another backup anchor line then i would say it is equivalent.
In the case of a strap-in stand like you show here, I take a redundancy approach when I hang my steps and when I hang my stand and then ultimately, anchoring my lifeline. What I do has reduncy at EVERY phase. Can that be said about saddle hunting? If I had to guess, I would say better than 99% of saddle hunters have zero redundanc. This fact makes it more dangerous than a stand setup with redundancy. So again, it all depends on the system that is deployed. Both can be very safe and both can be very dangerous.
Use a life line problem solved always safe. Can’t fall if your always tethered to the line.
Lifelines are great for people that hunt the same stand that stays up all year. For us mobile guys a lifeline doesn't work as you have to hang the life line fist.
@@SamkoTradBow you strap the life line at the bottom and move it up as you go correct?
@@cameroncunningham687 you could if you hunt trees without branches. I never hunt trees without branches
You used to say your hang on was the deal and your saddle or arbor saddle was safer. You then used both but do not saddle hunt. Thx
Nothing has changed. I only hunt with a tree stand and climbing sticks and a rock style safety harness. I don't, didn't, and will not hunt out of a saddle. But is it not OK for me to do a video on saddles to help those that do saddle hunt?
I'm over 60. I'll stick to what the pro uses🤣🤣 Summit Goliath SD with 3 summit rail packs, a cup holder, a phone holder, and a pillow. Zzzzz
That works perfect
You've lost your mind. U need a perch vs ring of steps
Guess I lost my mind then.
@@SamkoTradBow You do an excellent job. And your enthusiasm is evident!
@@DavidGonzalez-ek3zh thanks! Hearing that makes all the hard work worth doing