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Why the GR86 Cup is Better than the MX5 Cup Race Car - TheSmokingTire
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2023
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This video was originally recorded as a companion to a written Road & Track Piece, appearing in print in September 2022.
Why should the MX5 Cup have all the fun? Toyota's GR86 would make a great spec race car, and to prove it, Toyota built some and started a series! The GR86 Cup features stock horsepower, but reduced weight, added downforce, motorsport grade suspension, slick tires, and a Sadev 6-speed sequential gearbox. Matt got to go down to Carolina Motorsports Park to have a day's lapping to get a feel for the race car, and came away super impressed with the performance and the level of fun.
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The MX-5 cup comes with SADEV Sequential now too, since '21 I think
I don't think he knows the difference between Spec Miata and MX-5 Cup :(
Definitely doesn’t. But then again he doesn’t know much about many other vehicles either. 😅
I wouldn’t begin to consider purchasing one without a different oiling solution. For a 125k car they should be running a dry sump. No use pulling g’s in your car if it’s going to trash the engine.
Commenting for visibility. This has to be addressed
Cup cars are driven the hardest and there haven't been any blown engines.
@@patg3331 interesting… there have been plenty of blown engines in the stock/modified production cars. Given the engines are exactly the same… then the margin of error likely lies between the few degrees of extra body roll between the two suspension setups… even with the extra 0.5-1 G’s of lateral force in the cup cars. If the solution to the problem is really just a stiffened anti-roll bar, I would actually consider owning the production GR. Until then I’ll stick with the MX-5.
@@patg3331source?
Bumping
I’m so very impressed with Matt’s driving; he constantly states that he is not a racing driver, but his fundamentals are all there. I consider myself a very good driver, and I know three different spots that I definitely would have made mistakes. I’d love to see Matt thrash a US Legends car!
Matt’s warm up lap is essentially as fast as I could ever hope to drive.
he might not be a race driver but he can drive for sure
Not to mention he's describing and commenting on it live. No small amount of talent and focus.
He states that he’s around 1.5 seconds slower than the PROFESSIONAL racing driver they had, who DID NOT comment on film whilst wringing this machine out. He is a monster!
@@MR2D2AL I think its more likely 1.5 seconds off their driver's *instructional* lap pace.
The Miata is $80,000, has a SADEV sequential, and is much lighter which means it will be less expensive on tires, brakes and general consumables because less force is going through them. The Miata has 181hp so it should be equally quick until you get to a track with a long straight.
Much better deal in my opinion. Also has the added benefit of reliability. The FA24 has been promising with the exception of its oiling issues. Too big a risk. Not worth an extra 45k over the mx-5 imo.
The current GMX5 cars (presumably what you meant, since it's more of the direct competitor to GR86 Cup than Spec Miata) are sequential, and have been for years.
and cost 80k instead of 130k like this GR86 Cup
Whats the horsepower on one of those, similar?
@@jordandunne5292 ~181HP, but the car is much lighter so it's probably competitive in a straight line. I think you could pick and choose which would be faster depending on the track.
Funny, it actually has a SADEV 6 speed sequential just like this car lol.
@@chromaventure and the engine doesn't blow up on right hand turns.
?? The Miata Cup is $40k less and comes with sequential
Also resell for about 60-80k for a equally good one.
$125k for this does not sound like a great value to me. You could buy an MX5 Cup car and a GR86 road car for the price of this thing. Or, a GR86, Mx5 AND a spec NA miata + tires for the season
Or, hear me out. You could get a flight to Europe, a Caterham Academy racecar (which is WAY cooler), an entire race season, room and board, a flight back.... And still have enough left over to get a GR86
I know where I'd spend my money!
@@carscoffeeandcannabis-634I thought of your other options but not this Caterham one hmmm 💡
You definitely do not understand the cost of JUST the parts he explained in this video. How much do you think a good sequential transmission costs 😂??
@@thedoctormma9433 idk but do you know the mx5 cup car comes with a sequential for $80k? 😂
@@thedoctormma9433who cares lol
What about those 20 psi right turns though? Hard to ignore that issue.
Yeah idk what to think, and it's an 125k racecar with the SAME issue as the road car lol.
@SnubBarracuda It's probably overblown. Seems to be pretty rare from what I've seen.
For the price of this thing, You could get a flight to Europe, a Caterham Academy racecar (which is WAY cooler), an entire race season, room and board, a flight back.... And still have enough left over to get a GR86
I know where I'd spend my money!
His face when drinking the green juice says it all lol
Lol these are about 140k now, it’s 5k a weekend for entry fees, and that doesn’t include tires parts or team if you decide to race with one of them. If you really price this out it’s closer to running GT4s than it is to mx5 cup. It’s about 380-450k to put the car on track for a season. That doesn’t include, testing travel, or hotel. Just some insight.
Seeing Matt drive like that on a track that I have driven many times def proves that he is great driver!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHA good one.
@TheSmokingTire what oil cooler did that car have?
That's the ColorFittings kit based on a Setrab core, the logo is pretty clearly visible at 1:09
This setup with a bit of head work and breathing mods would be a riot. Give it another 60hp or so of naturally aspirated, rev happy power.
Too bad they don’t sell these to the public. They only sell to sanctioned race teams
GR supra cup then. This car is aimed for the kids coming from karting and not wanting to do spec miata. 240 NA hp is more than enough as it tests the driver’s capabilities of extracting the most of low powered cars.
GT4@@AceShadowbloodcivic
Smartest comment in the bunch sir. You are absolutely spot on. reason why they are made extremely easy to drive.
@@AceShadowbloodcivic😮
Matt, it’s worth pointing out that the current ND2 Cup can be had with the SADEV sequential box as well and costs quite a bit less to get into, other differences like aero and hp/weight notwithstanding. Great video, as usual!
I wish the 4 cylinder race car market wasn't going over to sequentials. We're running out of club races where your left foot has something to do but you're still competitive with the rest of the pack.
good drivers should be left foot braking even with a sequential, but I’d agree it’s more engaging. If nothing else I would hope the cup cars migrate to standard-trans-only rules to lower the barrier of entry
The transmissions themselves don't last in race situations. They'd need reinforced forks and syncros. instead of spending 5k in improving a manual, they spend 10 on a sequential that's bulletproof compared to the manual.
Seeing you back to back 1 year apart is wild! you should be proud of your healthy journey
Matt is a stellar driver. While he is delivering a top notch commentary. Props to you.
You can really see how much weight you lost from this video! (Not being a dick at all keep it up!)
I heartily agree with all the compliments about Matt's driving!
And there were way too many shots of the rear wing. It just doesn't matter.
Why is the external camera mounted on a different car than the one Matt is driving? His car has a window with an open insert, and the external camera has no window and a net.
one has AC , the other hasn't, maybe that's the reason ?
I’d take the mx5. You can turn left and right in the Mazda without worrying about oil starvation, pretty neat feature
I would love to have a GR86.....if it had a different engine.
mostly just a different oiling solution. the motor itself is fine
The turbo 3-cyl from the GR Corolla would be my choice.
Yeah, at this point it really is the engine which keeps me from getting into one, just not that big a fan of boxer engines.
It’s all about a low centre of gravity, naturally aspirated power, it’s cheap to buy, cheaper than the Miata/MX5 and has more power, the 3 pot turbo engine is not that great, it’s got plenty of turbo lag and would weight more with all its plumbing, the boxer engine is a clever design, it’s really low centre of gravity is why the car can be so low overall, helping handling, and all 230hp with a higher Rev limit is there all the time, turbo lag is a pain on little cc high boosted 3 pots.
Well said. Another great and refreshing comment compared to all the numb zombies here regurgitating oil starvation issue and not buying the car because of bla bla boxer engine. In the meantime they have no idea what they are missing.
The only downside is oil starvation with these. Look what happened to the MCA 86
Just wait 2 years or so, and Itl be fixed. I had a 2013 frs and it was a piece of junk. Got a 2017 86 and have never had a problem
This was awesome! You were moving around that track!
224 HP with an oil engine issue for $125k is very pricey. Should have either bumped it up to at least 300HP or lower the price to GR Supra prices.
Frankly, I love that we now have both the Miata and GR 86 cup cars.
6:55 look at that rim. Holy balls.
It's crazy that it sounds pretty much identical to the iRacing version!
Why doesnt the last gear whine? Just not straight cut?
I dont know what the condition of the track was or what size tires you were on but in my opinion I believe that car could of been pushed harder! It's was like you gave it 75% of its capabilities. I'm means it's race car at the end of the day. It takes time to get use to a machine that is purpose built from the factory to be on the track to bring out its full potential. All and all it looked like a great time and experience to say the least.
Lucky you! And great review
By large margin there are more reliable gr86 track cars then there are oil starvation issues. I raced two AER events in a row in a GR86 of early mfg build. Of course the RTV was addressed, and in both 8 hour races at VIR, the car was flawless.
Sometimes I think the racing world just comes up with expenses for the heck of it. Why do this or the Miata Cup need a sequential when the reinforcing the factory manual would be cheaper? Why do they need full Conti slicks instead of a more durable race tire? Why ON EARTH does a car with less than 250hp have traction control? These all seem like moronic expenses. Just go the vintage racing route, Formula Ford, or an entry-level spec Porsche series like spec Boxster/911.
The Miata guys are going to come at you for not knowing the difference between Spec Miata and MX-5 Cup especially when it comes to SADEV. Warning you on track days you can get stuff wrong with the Porsche guys but you cannot get facts wrong with the Miata clubs. They will check you immediately and you will fail trust.
DANG I wish I could get one of these!
It's probably better than MX5 Cup Race Car, but it also costs double
Here we are in 2023 and people are still calling MX-5 Cup cars "Spec Miatas" lol SCCA and NASA really have a deathgrip on the concept of a miata on a race track
No i think he's just a street car guy that doesn't know the first thing about racing.
It almost sounds racist against MX5 Cup cars.
Australia has been running an 86 race series for Gen 1 & 2 for a while now, check it out...
Can someone with more power and exposure please press toyota about the rtv issues, how to fix it and oil starvation for the engine this is the only thing stopping me a buying the car please.
This is awesome! CMP is my local track, recognized it immediately
Spec miata does use sequential gearboxes. Also the only reason they proly put sequential in 86 was to replace the bad engine noise.
Miata *was* always the answer.
Saw it a SEMA last year. Looked like a great factory racer.
Its cool, but these cars are only as good as thr race series surrounding them. Thr mx5 cup is consistantly some of the beat racing you can watch. IMSAs backing and $$ has made that series just an absolute blast. Its unlikley the series surrounding these cars will be the same given that thr cars coast that much more, and not having a backing from an organizayion like IMSA.
Wow that weight loss since you filmed it 👏
Looking good Matt. I've been watching for many years. Love the content.
Did they fix the oiling issues on that one?
no
Matt, I saw the battery is missing from its original location. Were you able to see where it was relocated to? Thanks for what you do.
its in the rear to improve weight distribution, AFAIK
$125k is literally the MX5 Cup season car purchase included.
Miata cup cars are sequential. Why doesn't 6th whine in the 86?
Yeah but is the GR86 Cup’s engine carrying a couple gallons of RTV in the crankcase or is that feature exclusive to the road going version?
You see that tire bead movement at 6:58?! Must be running what, 15-20 psi to move that much! Probably needed a lot more heat in them before pushing hard! I get that the car is designed for 45+ minute runs, so they'll build pressure, but holy crap, only if the tires stay on for the first couple laps!
we all want to know how toyota build this regarding the oil pressure drops on right turns.. and the rtv issues?? any one know how they went about it?
Pretty sure MX-5 Cup cars come with sequential transmissions as well.
That transmission probably costs the same as the base road car though, right?
Love CMP, I’ll be there next week in my e92.
Toyota needs to hold Subaru accountable. I would not touch a GR86 until the FA24 oil issue is fixed and support is opened to all current GR86 owners at minimal cost to the owner.
Holy shit it's CMP! I went to my first autocross and my first trackday there.
I love the car but at $125K this thing is a bit of a rip-off. A factory prepped Civic HPD Si is $55K which seems fairly reasonable. The Global MX5 (with SADEV) is also quite a bit cheaper.
For the same money you can buy a Radical SR3 or Sebco NP-01 and get a LOT more performance. Hell, for less money just build a Spec Corvette and have some AMAZING racing in a much more performant car.
That said, for up-and-coming young drivers looking to make a name, running this class is probably a great way to go.
Super fun car! Have you driven one of the newer MX-5 cup cars with the sequential?
Really solid car, on a beautiful day just moving on the slicks
What makes it sound so good?
WOW Love this video. Thnak you TST
This would be a great weekend track car alone. Not even a need to go racing but just to have fun and learn how to drive on a track. If I was rich and has 125k to burn, id go for this if......they provided a dry sump for this price. Wouldnt want my car blowing up because I drove it the way it was meant to be driven.
If I was that rich and had 125k to burn, I would buy a Praga R1 - an actual race car.
125k for an entry level racing car. Are Toyota completely out of their minds?! The current 911 Cup car is 225k (Euro), the BMW M2 CS Racing was 115k (Euro) but !including! VAT.
125k is crazy
1:07 I need one of those GR intake resonator deletes. NAOW.
Wrong.
Toyota will never support a spec series like Mazda has.
Mazda has been a root series provider in sedan, prototype and open wheel.
Toyota comes and goes.
Note: I have a 91 Miata. Would love to have a Toyota 86. I just believe that Mazda has done a wonderful job in developing driver series.
I can only assume it's because they need to show the GR brand actually racing. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with TRD having all the brand cache but then relegating it to Off-road shit only.
That thing is pretty impressive, not a bad deal for a setup track car
Stupid question, where does the whine come from? Is it the transmission?
Yes!
Matt you are looking great! Keep up the hard work!
I think I'll just have a GT4 for that price. Also, fix the oiling solution Subaru.
So many fun noises that no longer come out of most modern supercars.
Thanks for posting! Such a great car.
Love the track focused content. Have you heard of the Rush SR? I have one on order, should be here in November. 1200lb, 145HP, sequential gearbox. Mine is fully loaded and it’s going to cost 55K. If you don’t know about it, check it out. If you want to drive one, let me know, I’m a member at the Podium Club in Arizona, and they are dealers for the car.
Again, I love the track content, more of that please.
Not sure Matt could fit in one 🤣. I just learned of them and it reminds me of FSAE. Seems like a great (cheaper) radical alternative
You can drive this thing in iRacing. It’s an awesome series.
Certainly looked like fun!
You could build a spec miata for 15k lol.
the sequential is dope
All way, like your work. Your love of car all ways come Throw .😊
"What do you think, Veggie Boy?"
"I like it!"😊
"You can really taste the kale!"
what baffle are they using in the oil pan?
Can someone explain why a race car would use sequential shifting and not use paddles?
You can use a paddle with a sequential transmission. The new Prodrive restomod subaru has a paddle connected to the same Sadev sequential box. Lots of race cars use sequential race boxes, just drivers choice as to how to operate them.
i heard they have been blowing up engines too just like your road going versions.
Also the known problemas with oil starvation on this new gen motors is not a myth anymore, it is a real issue. Don't know if the MX5 have any motor known issues tbh.
From what I understand they're designed to handle 1.4g from the factory
I don't think it's a problem for gr86 cup from the video.
Since it's on slicks and has racing suspension it can generate a lot more G forces in the corners.
its a subaru engine oil starvation is standard from factory
This is designed for Nascar style left turn ovals
The ND MX5 has a reliable motor but unreliable transmission, to the point that there are NC transmission swap kits
These things going to lunch their engines also just like the road cars?
Well, at least now I know how I will spend my time if I win the lottery
Is this available to purchase for personal track use? or only for the single make series?
Series only
I'm surprised they let you turn right.
Nice to see an Episode without Zack
GR86 cup only 13 sek of an porsche 992 GT3 road car at Road Amerika
Lol can't compare the 2 race serie when one cost way less to run and maintain.
Is this the first race car with electric power steering?
How much I envy you both, americans and japanese. We don't have it in Europe. Beautiful one. Only one series have the potential to better it. The Mustang Challenge. Certainly not for fan per USD (or EUR). Just one little thing bothers me. One seat fits all. No, no, no. Custom racing seats, please.
Really nice race track.
Now do the Lotus Emira GT4 :)
Is the TST going to be in the new Forza? DLC maybe?
It’s too expensive. Spec Miata grids are larger at a fraction of the price.
Decently fun in iracing compared to mx-5