"Is America Moral? : A Gun Culture Conversation"
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- This is a short segment from SOC 119, an introductory class on race and culture that is taught by Dr. Sam Richards at Penn State University. Today's video comes from the twelfth class of the Spring 2023 semester. The live stream took place on Thursday, February 16, 2023. The full lecture live stream is available here: • 23SP Class #12: Run, H...
Feel free to participate in the comment section. But please be kind. Remember, this is a classroom.
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New to SOC 119? We live stream every class, during the fall semester the live stream is Tuesdays and Thursdays @ 1635-1750 EST. During the spring semester we stream on Tuesdays and Thursdays @ 1505-1620pm EDT. Feel free to join us!
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Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
02:06 "What story do you tell yourself?"
09:00 "We need to protect ourselves from Tyranny"
16:16 "Does the rate of suicide by gun change your perspective?"
17:22 "The problem is the accessibility and mental illness"
20:20 "This is the best way to live."
23:00 "Wouldn't Terrorist be the better term?"
23:50 "What is the common factor?"
26:40 "Does gender play a role?"
28:04 "What about non-gun violence?"
#guns #gunsinamerica #viewsofamerica #internationalperspective #newperspective
Anyone who believes the government isn’t capable of atrocities towards its people need to read more into history
It is, you’ll just get steam rolled by the army no matter how many rounds your gun can shoot.
@@fatboyRAY24 you’d be surprise what a community with guns and determination to fight for liberty and freedom from tyranny can hold off a armies with more advanced fire power. A government is becomes reluctant to go against a well armed citizenry. Governments with the intent to “control” its people must not allow its citizens to be armed.
@@fatboyRAY24 The same military who couldn’t defeat goat herders and rice farmers thousands of miles away is going to defeat the most armed people in the world in a civil war? Yeah, I don’t think so.
@@fatboyRAY24 to some extent, in the example of an individual basis, I agree. However, how would you explain insurgencies, and non-organized militaries being able to defeat foreign and domestic powers (i.e. the American Revolution, the Vietnam War, the Chinese Revolution, the war in Afghanistan, etc.) of course, many people died, and on a cost of life basis, the insurgencies lost many orders of more people, however, they destroyed the others will to fight, and politically, won the war. I could be missing something, just interested in someone else’s opinion
@@fatboyRAY24 You are discounting the resistance of the army and the strategic advantage of the local populace. There is more to this situation then who has the biggest weapon.
Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither.
And will lose both
The three questions that should be asked for this conversation.
1. Is it morally justified to take a life in defense of self or others
2. Are you willing to put your trust in all governments in perpetuity not to take hostile action against you
In American culture the vast majority will say yes to the first and no to the second even if they have a wide range of reasons for those answers.
Once you get to that point if your answers coincide with what would be the norm in American culture, then the third question comes into play.
3. If you were forced to defend yourself against a superior foe and you did not have access to the weapons necessary to do so how would you accomplish this?
Understanding the logic behind this series of question is the key to understanding why Americans are so protective of their gun rights.
Statements to take objection to.
* "It's become easier to get guns" No it absolutely is not easier than it was 50, 60, 70, or 100 years ago. There are simply more obstacles now because there didn't used to be obstacles.
* "Obama was elected so we got to watch black people" Absolutely not, the number of people who gave a rats behind about his race as a negative is so miniscule as to be statistically zero. What they cared about was his intent to try to take away guns. See above distrust matrix. The instructor isn't doing his students any favors forwarding those lies.
*"Men's mental health" No that isn't the cause. Men are simply more inclined to violence than women and that makes big difference at the extremes. If you take the 100 most violent people out of a group of lets say 1 million either 99-100% of that 100 most violent people will be men and it requires someone extremely willing to implement violence to enact terrorism. That's why there is a gender imbalance. Its simply a factor of examples that occur from the extremes and mathematics.
I agree with your points as well. It is not like you or I are even teaching a class, it just that we are informed on the actual facts and filter out the B.S..
Yeah I felt he used a bad example when saying "we gotta watch black people" white people is how Obama got elected, mainly white lib females.
Hit the nail on the head. However I do believe men's mental health does play a very large role.
A logical conclusion based on deductive reasoning. Something most of the world unfortunately lacks.
I agree. Growing up, we had much more access to guns. We also had more fathers in the home.
I'm a first gen immigrant, and i've managed to convince my parents of the utility of guns against tyranny. We're from Iran, and they're seeing how their government will use live rounds against protesters, and people can only really resort to using molotovs and homemade weapons to fight back. I got them to see how if the people had the ability to be armed, the government wouldn't dare use live rounds, because then they will risk losing a war, will lose many military members, lose members of the workforce, and lose tax dollars in huge amounts, not to mention the general chaos.
Guns are tools. Morality is subjective. What is good for one is not good for another. If people want to kill themselves or others, they don't need guns, as is evident throughout human history. The fact that we still kill one another is the problem, not the guns. Cars are weapons, but we don't say its immoral to have one.
We had a dictatorship in my country that was brought down by a non violent revolution. If it ever comes to a point of tyranny for part of the government i belive most of the military will start the revolt, and bring in the citizens, as what happened here.
The case of iran means that there isn't a significant opposing majority of the population that stands against the rulers.
If practically all of the population were to be against a government is impossible that that government won't fall
I also believe that, if in any country of europe or north america, the government used live ammo against protests, regardless of population being armed (like is thw case of most countries) that, not only probably military would refuse to open fire, but for those that do, that would be such a mssive uproar in the majority of population thst, at the very least, the people in command of that order wouldn't be brought to face consequences
I'm am for allowing guns though, but definitely think that proper regulation is key. Was just giving my view in relation to the part of as defense against government tyranny
The girl that laughed off civilians being able to protect themselves against their government needs to take some more history classes… especially about some of those countries that were being represented in stage.
The US is 0-3 to dudes in pajamas and AKs. Just saying.
It shows she knows nothing about the recent fall of Afghanistan
Such an ignorant statement. You can't compare a 3rd world war zone (that the US invaded) with 1st world stable countries.
She knows absolutely nothing about the 2nd Amendment and what it's purpose is. For the citizenry to defend itself against a tyrannical government.
5:21 “Run, hide, fight” is not the “American way,” backed by a gun culture. It’s a list of the only remaining options for any rule-following occupants of a gun-free zone that just happens to be ignored by an evil killer.
Without gun-free zones, the phrase “Run, hide, fight” would be replaced with the phrase “An armed society is a polite society.”
🎯
Politely and respectfully, this hypothesis has been completely debunked. The perpetrators go to these places to cause the most damage to society. The fact you can last waste to 20-30 people in three minutes…you’d have to arm everyone, including the students, to maybe, possibly, make a difference.
The real problem is America lacks the political will to remove violent people permanently from society, mainly because they're afraid of being called racist. The average killer has already been arrested over 10 times before he kills someone. We need to rehabilitate those who can be saved and purge those who are lost causes.
The moral order: run, hide, fight..is the result of liberals forbidding firearms in schools (of course crazy criminals DO NOT FOLLOW LAWS -duh they kill people... also illegal). The DNC is literally holding our children hostage in "gun free zones" they require us to send our children to school..but no choice given policed or un-policed, God or no god...liberals call this "Public Choice", it would be a public choice if I could cut my property taxes by 60%, and send the kids to a private school.
I don't think we should "purge" them but they should be removed and rehabilitated until there is tons of evidence they can be peaceful happy people...
We closed the mental institutions rather than reforming them. Simply put, that was our first and biggest mistake. Being soft on crime is an afterthought in comparison, although still a very serious issue.
I don’t its that we’re soft on crime, but rather are system doesn’t prevent it. It deals with the aftermath instead, and by then it’s too late.
Cite the statistic
I wish I were able to join in this class on some of these subjects, especially this one. I love these discussions and have been studying the data for 15 years.
Point of fact, from 1980 to 2018, gun ownership stayed fairly even at about 40% of the population. This means more and more people bought firearms. While this was the case, all violent crime reduced. This means as more guns became easier to obtain, more people bought them and less people killed each other with them. This statistic highlights that it wasn't guns becoming more prevalent that increased gun violence, as this had been the case for almost 40 years.
It was a cultural shift that occurred. Remember, gang violence has many repeat offenders, so it's important to also understand that the 80% of gun homicides are not committed by different people on a 1 to 1 basis. It's more likely that the number of people within that 80% of perpetrators is about half of that percentage or less, meaning if 20,000 murders occurred, 10,000 people committed those murders. This may not be an exaggeration as the State Office of Policy and Management in Connecticut found that 45% of released violent criminals were arrested for the same crime some time after being released. So not only are the ones that don't get caught likely to kill again, but those that are released are repeat offenders.
Following this train of thought, we can narrow down the gun violence and homicide to specific cities, areas within cities, to certain cultural attitudes, etc. These areas may have a higher black presence, but the racial makeup itself isn't the issue as there is more variation within groups than between them. It is also important to understand that mass shootings criteria has been changing, so the increase statistically is partially a calculation change.
When taking all of this data into account and controlling for gang violence and the repeat offenders within, the rate of gun crime becomes more understandable as not something that normal people accept, but as a subculture that has been allowed to thrive within the majority culture.
The culture of the US is based off of personal freedoms, which is why we have so many guns, but outside of gang and drug violence, so little gun homicides. This fact bolsters that the US is a moral country, as we expect gun owners to help out people in need and rely on each other when a disaster happens. I have a dozen other arguments I could make, but this is a quick spread of arguments and data to push against an anti-gun narrative.
Very well said.
I'm a "gun-person": it's a hobby of marksmanship and tinkering, I hunt occasionally and I carry concealed every day.
Your last paragraph struck me the most because when you consider just how many guns we have in the states it's remarkable how low the gun-homicide statistics are outside of the "hot-spots" of certain areas of certain cities. If we were an immoral country, the streets would be running red by now, it'd be Mad Max style.
It amazes me when people ask "what stops you from killing someone with a gun when you get mad?", because it's the same thing that stops me from killing someone with a hammer or a knife or a car when I get mad....
Look how many Law Enforcement Officers are actually killed by a gun, knife, etc... out of the total amout of LE deaths. Many sources lie and twist the actual truth. Only about 10 percent die from a weapon. List the heart attacks, hit by a car while writing a citation, etc... which is by far the largest majority of deaths. My own field of work has 2700 deaths a year which is far, far more than LE officers. In the end 12 to 14 police die a year due to being killed with a weapon.
Speaking as someone from England, it is a pleasant surprise that the audience listens to a debate without shouting/screaming their opposite views 🇬🇧🇺🇸
this was not a debate. This is a classroom setting, and the instructor has scolded students for talking out of turn before. It's a pretty controlled environment.
In another class, he speaks of an event that happened at this university - where student protesters DID shout down and cause a speaker to be cancelled by terroristic threats.
Sadly, too many leftist students and too many leftist professors in America today are completely mindless, and do scream their opposition against peaceful speakers.
@@ShannonBarber78 It used to be in the Universities, but now if it doesn’t suit the agenda it seems to be howled down. As for the tea cakes & scones, I would say us Brits are considered a little aggressive by most other nations.
The kid that says he loves his government is speaking out of pure fear of his government
Yes, governments have carried out the worst mass murders in human history.
Being patriotic should not immidiatly equate to being afraid. That kid from Saudi Arabia is most probably on a scholarship grant from his govt and is avaialable to most citizen. Of course he loves his govt.
He loves his govt bc he agrees with them. What does he do when he doesn’t?
@@Rob-me8vp Exactly. In alice in wonderland there is scene where everyone is trying to get dry but only the captain is dry because he is standing on a rock above the water. When told that his crew will never get dry he responds that that is nonsense because he is perfectly dry.
I was thinking the same thing. He is making the argument for keeping guns against a tyrannical govt crystal clear… he probably has no idea what true freedom is. “As long as you abide by the rules set by the govt, you can live in peace” is the statement of a sheep…
Interesting conversation. A couple of things.... 1st of all guns have gotten harder to buy, not easier over time. 2nd, guns have not changed much in the last 100 years. People had full auto Tommy guns in the early 1900's. The AR15 came out somewhere around 60 years ago, and they had large capacity mags then as well. So if the guns haven't changed, I think the question needs to be: What has changed?
Exactly! There was also a time when schools had rifle ranges and students would take their guns to school. If guns were the problem there would have been way more school shootings back then.
@diab01us True! I put my shotgun in my school locker many times to go hunting with friends after school. Several of us did, and nobody thought anything of it. Until Columbine. Then we had to stop. Kids just didn't kill people 30 years ago. Something has gone horribly wrong with the psychey of these people. It's so sad, and there doesn't seem to be much interest in trying to find out what.
@@charliemore7668 IMO one of the problems is the whole everybody gets a trophy culture. Imagine a kid in grade school that thinks he is a winner no matter what. Then he gets to an age where he learns that's not the real world. He has not been taught to deal with disappointment so he will get to the point where he lashes out. Obviously not all kids will do this but there are some that won't be prepared for the real world.
Prozac Nation is probably worth considering. The timeline fits. Its an overlapping set of factors of course. But its not number of, or access to guns, if anything that is a paradoxical effect--fear of Obama removing access to guns drove huge increases in gun purchases. If he had made it clear that he was not going to try to restrict guns, there would be less guns in circulation, in the end his successor passed more gun restrictions than him. But also, Obama set multiple records for American wars, so that has an effect as well, because trauma often persists.
I think the most influential is the media, the school systems and the disregard for religion.
The media focuses on tragedies and have been very anti-USA my entire life. The internet allows for fast spread of many mental diseases.
An American born person in a college class just argued that the idea of needing guns to defend yourself from a tyrannical government is absurd. I normally call to attention certain cultures and mental illness, but maybe the US education system is the problem.
I do not agree with them but I can see where they come from because I have a hard time believing that our military which is composed of american citizens would be willing to shoot at fellow americans to that level. And with rapid communication available to all, and the loss of it being a major concern to the individual, it would be hard to minimize the communication after a point.
I'm referring to the irony that America was founded by citizens defending themselves from a tyrannical government, and yet she thinks the idea is absurd.
@@shawnsnow6413 cool, if the time comes, lets do like our founding fathers and get weapons from an armory to fight back. No need for the population to be flooded with weapons during peace time.
@@fatboyRAY24 Perhaps times of peace are facilitated by a populace flooded with guns. What armory lol? If there was a community armory it would have to be maintained by the local government which we may or may not be fighting against. That doesn't sound like a very solid plan.
There are governments and groups that have done this to the general population of countries in your lifetime. Why is it such a bizarre idea?
It's EXTREMELY rare. ALSO, anti-gun folks ignore all the Defensive Gun Use statistics, and since the media is anti-gun, for the most part, few folks recognize that guns are used to defend folks millions of times a year in the USA. When you go through the gun death statistics, and you remove the suicides, accidents, self defense, and the criminals killing other criminals, we see only about 1600 murders with guns that people find problematic. That's far less than the number of lives estimated to be saved by guns each year.
I would have liked to hear something said about the use of firearms in self defense, not even fired but just shown to stop a crime.
I'm Canadian and even I know if the media pumped out the REAL numbers about firearms in the US the liberal propaganda machine would start sweating to just to remotely keep up.
Tough times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create tough times.
Tough times are coming, arm yourself.
- Strong create easy* times, Easy* times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
Tough times create hardships for almost everyone.
Strong men perpetuate cycles of violence and create strong times.
Compassion and empathy create good times.
@@speider strong ≠ violent
@@speider can you give a historical example?
It's "common sense" that if a thief or someone else who wants to harm or kill someone KNOWS that victim doesn't have a gun to defend themselves, they will be MORE likely to go thru with the harm/crime... 🤷
It takes a lot more and longer for a man to get to a point where society sees value in him. A lot of men are not handling that pressure very well. It doesn’t help that we are telling them that acting masculine is wrong.
And it only took feminism 60 years to destroy society.
It isn't that society sees value in men or not. It is whether men see value in themselves. Men without purpose see no value in themselves. The number one way to change this is for fathers to get their sons working giving them purpose. I had my first job at 14. Learning how to earn money and take care of myself and seeing what potential I had is what gave me worth and value. A large portion of society has lost the father in the home showing young boys the way.
The vast majority of school shooters are a young man who grew up without a father figure and were raised by single mothers. They were also on Anti-depressants. Those are the 2 biggest commonalities between each and every school shooter
Seems the last 4 shooters were trans and that’s out of the norm.
@@kevinwallis2194especially considering how absolutely rare trans people are in the general population
@@popularopinion1 Well how rare it should be and then this generation rolls around and it's suddenly a 20x increase.
@@kevinwallis2194 yeah the majority of trans kids are fatherless with highly emotional mothers and are on WAY MORE then anti depressants.
the amount of times young people say "like" is astounding. And it's not just kids from the US.
Listen to how often a journalist starts a sentence with "So....."
Painting gun crime as a morality argument is a giant oversimplification. A lot more factors at play than someone's sense of right and wrong. You don't think that mass shooters realize that their actions are heinous? There's a reason so many take their own lives after committing the act. They understand that their lives are essentially over once they get to that point, so they end it before being captured.
As for the girl asking about whether it's justifiable for civilians to personally arm themselves in the event that their government becomes tyrannical, yes, absolutely. There's a reason the Founding Fathers were wise enough to include the Second Amendment in the Constitution. Any bureaucracy can be subjected to tyrannical overreach no matter how historically stable, even the U.S.
As for the guy that responded by banning all guns, that fixes absolutely nothing. If civilians don't have the right to bear arms, that doesn't mean the military or law enforcement won't be armed. And just because someone is wearing a badge and uniform, that doesn't mean they don't have the capacity to use their guns for malicious intent, obviously. Also, it will just create an underground black market and because criminals don't follow the law, they will still find a way to buy guns, even if it becomes more difficult.
Being susceptible to indoctrination by a radical ideology that advocates for violence against infidels isn't mental illness, that's being gullible and sheer stupidity. Unless you grew up in a place like North Korea where all of your immediate surroundings is a real life Truman Show, individuals have the ability to seek different angles in a story and remain skeptical of what they're consuming. If someone internalizes that it's just to mow down non-believers in the name of Allah, the person actively took steps to get there, the beliefs weren't forced on them.
So to be frank, the students are not the brightest or most well thought. And it shows. The guy who was talking about Indonesia around 16:00 saying things like, "it's common sense that it's a good trade off to get rid of guns so that people won't go out and shoot eachother". The portrayal he gave was an obvious strawman of what is even happening I'm the US, and you can tell that he hasn't put a ton of thought into this topic.
If he has not been in the US for very long that makes it more justified, but it still seems insane to have that dramatic of a view if the US (that significant amounts if people are just running around getting into firefights b/c of guns)
Thank you for this elaboration on this subject, very well written and informative. I would love to hear your response to some of his other lectures.
@@TheGreatJto me it's also HILARIOUS that he said that since I know that Indonesia and Malaysia have serious problems with violence to include gun violence. Maybe he's from the ruling class and doesn't experience it but it's definitely there.
Banning all guns is a no-go. They are too dispersed into society. Take away the guns from individuals who would use it to defend themselves and all the people who have acquired them illegally get to keep theirs.
who doesn't see a spike in crime occurring?
@@travisspicer5514 we will never give up our guns.
Look at the countries where the foreign students come from. All these countries have homogeneous populations. The countries do not allow much immigration and the idea of a diverse population like in the USA is completely foreign to the leadership of these countries.
Yep
Ya.. but India has very diverse population. In the East people look like Chinese, up North people look like Middle Eastern and European mix. Infact diversity is the reason India got partitioned into Pak and Bangladesh. Infact today Middle East is filled with 25% expats.
@@RAIRADIO In the US when we say different ethnic groups we're referring to blacks, whites, browns, Asians etc. No one in the US would say we're getting a diverse population because some people are coming from Sweden and some from Italy. They're still all white.
@@jackbrown8052 I absolutely would say just that in many cases. Nationality and the related culture differences are a huge aspect of diversity. Consider this a counter-point. Who really has more in common: Chelsea Clinton, Sasha/Malia Obama, and an average white female that went to public high school with a family working blue collar jobs?
It's really not all about race, though that does play a factor. More than anything, it comes down to culture and upbringing. For example, the typical African American in the USA has a vastly different culture from someone that grew up in Africa and recently immigrated, but they may look nearly identical on the outside.
@@jackbrown8052 I partially share your view, but it is important to point out that Islam is not a race, and theIr indoctrination, or doctrine confornance is regardless of skin color. while racial strife in America has been reaching greaferheights after having been subdued in previous decades, there were periods where African descended Americans we better regarded than Irish immigrants. Today, imigrants from Africa are a very diffirent population from descendants of American slaves (and.they commonly don't see eye to eye). Maybe the difference is Swedish culture, and many contemporary African cultures, are more stable than certain UK derived cultures and what has become associated with black American (ghetto or hood) culture, which isn't restricted by melanin or genetic.ancestry as much as in dominant culture trsnsmission. I don't think Eminem is Swedish nor African, but I think he's apart of that degenerate culture. Thomas Sowel argues that the African-descended American slaves had their own culture ripped aeay from them, and they adopted a degenerate poor-white surrounding culture of promiscuity and wanton violence and unique slang which descends from an earlier wave of immigration from the UK.
Mass shooting statistics start in the 90's for a reason. My generation, millennials, and gen z lack purpose and are living through cultural and moral degradation, as well as contributing to it. Medications for depression or anxiety are also a factor, and technology is a factor. Young boys not having a father present is a huge problem, not being raised properly. There's countless reasons.
I think you're quite right. In the 1980s, a bill was introduced to train police officers to assume a man is guilty when responding to a marital dispute. However, in re ent years, research has shown that women are the aggressor 70% of the time.
Excellent reply
Yes, my childhood we looked up to those with intelligence and high moral compass. Those days are over.
Mass shooting stats are mostly gang related. Any shooting with 4 or more injured (included indirectly) is considered a mass shooting.
The biggest one by far is the medications. If your read the warning label it basically says it can turn young men into mass murderers.
"Like, I don't want to generalize, you know"
(Continue to listing personal experiences and generalized statements)
😂
Everyone would possibly like a benevolent dictator but they are rarer than unicorns...
Easier to find a benevolent dictator than a benevolent democracy
@@tayzk5929 populism is not democracy. The argument is true, if you're meaning to say it's easier to find a benevolent dictator than to find a benevolent mob. But majority rule (both mobocracy or oligarchy) is not democracy. Democracy means Citizen's government, not rule by politician or popular majority.
in a strict democracy, the citizens would absolutely be benevolent to themselves, even if they were all corrupt and greedy, because that's fundamental self interest. Jury duty is structured to be apolitical for this reason, decide in closed rooms away from public pressure so that the truth has a chance to not be drowned by saving face.
If I were a narcissist, or a Demagogue, then I'd be very keen not on doing the right thing, but on looking good, and willing to whip up and to appease a crowd for the rush and the sense of power. This kind of political populism is what you're unfortunately referring to as "democracy", and defeating that impulse is exactly what led.the ancient Greeks to devise actual democracy in the first place. That proto-democracy was the only true democracy, all other systems that pretend that voting for the popular politician is somehow democracy is an utter sham.
That said, I'm not really arguing in favor of a pure non-voting anti-politician democracy, I'm am pointing out that it can exist, but we don't have one presently. We are not supposed to be exactly a democracy, but a polity, which is a mixed system of government, except that our polity is missing the democratic segment, because we have popular politicians not just where they belong, in the Senate... but also where they don't belong, in the citizen's House of Representatives. This is why politicians can be selfish at the expense if the citizens who don't have a voice, just a politician who makes promises that he will put their needs above his own. We need actual citizens in that role, to have a bicameral legislative body if rulers where the citizens and politicians can keep each other in check.
If we had a functional House of Representatives that acted in the self-interest of the citizens, then they would selfishly pursue the goal of finding that benevolent dictator, and appointing him to be President. That's how it was supposed to work. (Edited fir typos and a few missing sentences.)
The one young one man has no idea that the wrong people can take over the government and control every aspect of your life overnight without the ability to keep that government in check and he's ok with it. Good luck to you sir, I will keep my ability to stand up if needed. I'd rather die on my feet than to live on my knees.
Why is it the number of defensive firearms uses are almost never included in these kinds of discussions? Is it possible to get fair estimates of how many lives are potentially saved each year by the legal, defensive use of firearms?
Justified defensive use of guns (often without even firing a shot) dwarfs unjustified homicides with guns.
Because if defensive use was included, that would make the case for preserving the 2A a no brainer.
It’s got to be a societal issue. America is not the only country in the world with widespread gun ownership. For example, in Switzerland virtually all male adults are required to have a firearm in their home. It should be noted that military service is mandatory for all adult males, in Switzerland. Their murder rate is extremely low and mass shootings are almost unheard of.
Switzerland we don't speak about. 99% white homogeneous Christian country is not diversity bro. And everyone knows diversity is our strength.
Needing to protect yourself from the possible tyranny is the exact reason we have the second amendment. And thank you for correcting the statement “more often than not” it’s something that needs to be addressed because even though the person likely had no bad intention saying it inaccurate information needs to be spoken about and flushed out.
Government that fears the people serves the people. Government that doesn't serves itself. It's not about overthrowing the government. It's about making the government think twice about the policy and laws it creates. It's not about winning a battle against the government. It's about making sure there a risk and cost to the government if it goes too far. It's not about saving myself from the government if it decides to kill me. It's about taking a few of them with me. 80 FBI agents have died in the line of duty since it's creation. What happens when it's that many in a week? Will they continue to obey the orders sending them to their deaths? Those who don't own guns owe a debt of gratitude to those who do for the rights they continue to enjoy.
Any society comprised of humans will always have bullies. To survive you need knowlege and to acquire knowlege you need to survive, a gun is an equalizer.
I think the problem with this discussion is that America doesn't have a singular culture. It is not a homogeneous country. It is a country made of countless cultures, one of which is gang culture. Something that is nowhere near as prevalent in other countries.
This includes the mafia and the founding fathers right? Who started the gang culture??
The two parallel causes of "gun deaths" in America are:
1. Fatherless homes in inner cities (homicides)
2. Crisis of meaning in middle aged men (suicides)
If you reduced those deaths each by a factor of 10, you'd virtually eliminate gun deaths.
People from other countries do not have a full understanding of not being a subject of their government.
US citizens are responsible for their own protection, primarily from their own government, then foreign powers, criminals, predatory animals, etc. We are SUPPOSED to be armed, trained, etc. We have offloaded that responsibility, and are reaping the consequences.
The lack of knowledge about firearms and the reasons for the second amendment ,among those opposed to them, increases the issue.
We live in a constitutional carry area and the crime is extremely low.
Yes, it's very peaceful in Chinese civilian life (one student said).....until the government decides it doesn't like you, then the gloves come completely off.
"...but in most places it's become easier to obtain guns..." Please prove that statement. I find it very hard to believe. I'm about the same age as the professor and remember a world where getting/having guns was nothing compared to today. As in night and day different.
You used to be able to order guns from a catalog and have them shipped directly to your house. Now we have mandatory background checks and shootings are up. That tells me it's not the access to guns. Something is rotten in our culture that caused this. It's moral decay.
It depends on the time scale.
Compared to 1920, it's harder today.
Compared to 1990, it's easier in most places.
You used to be able to buy machineguns by mail order.
Two crazy stories,
about only the government can have guns.........
Schindlers List and
The Killing Fields.
Oh wait, these are true stories.
Even if every one had guns, it would still go down badly. Because the public was already with the govt. It never happens without public support. Public IS the government.
@@RAIRADIO about 1/2 of the Cambodian population died in the 5 years of the Pol Pot rule. Do you think that is what the citizens wanted? Was the government doing the will of the people?
@@RAIRADIO This is absurdly off base, your understanding of the political system seems so distorted that I don't exactly know how to address you, or where to begin. Do you really think that even 50 percent of the population identifies with our political rulers who themselves are generally above the laws they impose on us? This seems a pretty cut and dry question, if you can't answer it honestly then there's no assumption of good faith possible.
When the one kid talked about crazy people getting guns, and all hell breaking loose, I thought...
"What if only the government has guns, and the 'crazy' people get into power? What then?"
The primary conversation should be about mental health and guarding schools more diligently. America has always had an excessive amount of guns and these mass shootings have only become a problem in the past couple decades. The uptick in mass shootings is directly correlated with a declining mental health of the public.
In addition the guarding of schools needs to be addressed. If a criminal robs a bank with a gun the banks don’t legislate for gun control they just hire armed guards.
The amount of guns is not the issue, its the amount of people willing to misuse them, and who are capable of commiting mayhem with any tool available. The rest of your comment is spot on, and to further your point... a locked door will not prevent a determined enemy, but an unlocked door will invite indiscriminate crime. The schools make for a soft target because of misguided policies, so they attract the derange who want to make a spectacle.
It’s NOT WHAT YOU HAVE! ITS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT !!!
Guns aren't the problem. It's mental health. Gun laws always hurt law abiding citizens. Also the second amendment is clear the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.
How much did you train with weapons in the military and how strictly were they kept track of? The expectations we place of private citizens should be more like the military.
The lack of common sense laws hurts citizens only in the United States, apparently. With tons of data to support that.
@@rmo9808you'd be surprised at how little law enforcement and the military actually train with weapons. Even infantry. The people who train the most with weapons in law enforcement and the military are in special operations and they train a lot. There's a large percentage of gun enthusiasts who train far more than the military or law enforcement. And the people who compete train more than anyone honestly.
@@azules9780 What happens to someone caught with a gun without training or anyone knowing about it?
@@rmo9808 What do you mean?
I would have loved to have been in this class and chimed in this discussion.
Wow! This channel is quite the gem :) thank you for providing these lectures for us to watch ❤
One thing I would add is in concerning why mass shootings have increased so much within the past few decades. If I recall right, a huge majority of mass shooters (95%) were on antidepressants. Based on that, it seems that this is a mental health issue.
The culture has changed. After Columbine, the media sensationalized these shooting giving notoriety to the killers i.e. fame. The internet is toxic and aids in these killings. Also, since Ferguson, the defund the police campaign, BLM, cities not prosecuting criminals, release of prisoners, etc...all contribute to the crisis.
I have no data to back this up, but what it always seemed like to me was mass shootings is "in" right now with the mentally ill. During the 60's, it was "in" to assassinate political figures (Kennedy, MLK, etc), then bombings seemed to be popular for a while, Oklahoma City being one of the biggest, then anthrax, and now mass shootings. It's a phase much worse than bell bottoms or huge shoulder pads.
There is soooo much more to it
Not enforcing laws is also a problem. Most of the resent mass shooters had existing issues that were ignored...this professor rocks we need more educators like him...
This was a very interesting topic. I would have liked to see more touched on society, community, etc. I feel like lack of community is a big part of the issue. Listing to several of the speakers they didn't feel the government took care of them but the community did. In many communities religions support mental health. We have lost a lot of this, if we ever had it.
The issue with community is with the diversity means different cultures and there has always been more violence when different cultures interact. The United States is the country with the most immigrants from anywhere in the world. This means there is going to be more conflict. Greater education can help minimize this as individuals realize that offensive things in their culture are not offensive in others and learn that they need to understand the individual and their intent better. Certain groups in this country suffer from lower education across the board for various reasons and statistically commit more violent crimes.
It's an anti gun conversation if you don't recognize that the phycological reason why the person killed people and that a gun can't shoot itself.
Tyranny was mentioned, briefly. Look up Roof Koreans. For a more recent example of why average people need to be armed, look no further back than the BLM Mostly Peaceful Protests (TM) a few years ago where the police bowed out of entire cities, at the direction of their (mostly Democrat) bosses. "Hello, 911? I'm in a traffic jam and three people are jumping on the hood and roof of my car with my two young children in the back seat. Can you please send help?" Answer: No.
I’d take a look at how different countries handle criminals. The US has become very weak on criminals. When you’re weak on crime, crime grows. If there is no law that has consequences grave enough to make you second guess committing a crime then there is no motivation to make you think twice.
This professor is a gift to his students! He really knows how to bridge gaps.
I like how he said guns have become a normal reality in America but hasn’t it always been a normal reality here?
Bingo. Exactly, that hasn't changed.
Nearly all violence related to guns is related to gang violence. In no place in the United States does the police come running to you immediately to protect you in a situation that becomes violent, urban or rural. We have a Constitution that is largely ignored by those in charge of defending the people's rights. The perception in this country is that those who are the most authoritarian are perceived by a lot of people as being more Democratic when they're not and those who are more Democratic are perceived as being more authoritarian despite the obvious characteristics of both are being misrepresented in the media. The perceptions come from how the media portrays things and when the media is being dishonest, then you get false perceptions.
Someone kills people with a gun, and the gun is blamed. Someone kills people any other way it's their fault, or they are mentally ill
Look up the psychology of labels. I think you'll find it interesting.
Some Americans always want to blame the object not the reason because 90% of the time the reason is mental illness but the people expressing violence because they feel no one hears their cry for help are the marginalized and if we actually addressed the problem those marginalized people would feel targeted or discriminated against and the institutions and political representatives and medical representatives are afraid to call out obvious mental health issues out of fear of being called racist or some sort of phobia!
It's nice to see a teacher just give his students something to think about rather than preach some ideology.
2 minutes in and the young gentleman can not identify the threat of violence from the government.
just found this! respect! such informative dialog and thestudents seem engaged to listen
Ive noticed that people dont remember that americans used to be able to buy a machinegun out of the sears catalog and have it shipped to their front door and the murder rate was still quite low.
Again, the problem isnt the gun!
It's cultural our morals are in the shtter
@@nunyalastname-ej8vlall the hate i see going on is from the left and the right. And the left is far worse. Exponentially. Im talking about on the street
I like how the lecture started with “this isn’t any anti gun lecture” and as soon as a student in the audience asked a legit question saying “we have always had guns and laws haven’t changed a whole lot so what has changed?” The profesor shot it down with gun control talking points. Way to go
I noticed that too. 👎
What has changed in your view?
@@TheWillzy punishment that fits the crime.
@@drtmi8789 you'd need to elaborate. You think that what's changed is ... punishment that fits the crime. That doesn't compute.
@@TheWillzy not too hard to understand as long as you're not a sheep and actually have critical thinking skills. You know, like confessed murderers getting life for multiple murders, or rapists, or thieves. The saying used to go like, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." though a few of those I mentioned should be carried out on the courthouse lawn immediately.
@@drtmi8789 Maybe if you read more carefully you'd realize you didn't answer the question asked. The question was "what has changed."
But you answered "what needs to change." So the problem isn't that I'm a sheep. It's that you had 2 opportunities to answer the same question, but failed.
Very interesting discussion. Wished someone would've posed the question to your panel, is there any country that enjoys the freedoms we enjoy in the US, & if not perhaps one answer is that American believe that with freedom comes a requisite responsibility to provide & protect that comes with that freedom.
Great conversations. Toward the end I really appreciate that students point out it's not always everyone else's fault that someone crazy decides to go do something crazy.
It’s good to brainstorm and explore what brought us here and what solutions would work to solve the current problems, but in the meantime, you know that teacher doesn’t have a gun to protect the students from an active shooter.
Isn't that Ironic.😁
can these kids ever have a conversation without saying “like” for every other word
Too often in here i see "personal weapons wont help you the government will beat you"
The logical extension of that person's argument is "so you shouldnt be allowed guns so that its even easier". What a way to think
People used to be able to order guns (including full auto machine guns) from a catalog and have them shipped directly to their house without a background check. America has always had a gun culture however mass shootings and gun violence have only become common in the last 30-40 years. Over the same time many new laws have been passed to restrict and limit gun ownership, carrying, gun and magazine types legally available. So the real question that we should be asking is, what has happened to Americans to cause this change? Also, there are many nations, like Mexico, where civilian gun ownership is extremely restricted yet the nation is rife with violence, gun violence, etc. and most of it is conducted with illegal guns showing us that more laws and restrictions aren't the solution.
most of those non US students come from much more homogenous countries, when it comes to similar people, similar beliefs, similar customs.. this is 1 of the reasons Japan has low crime in general.. And their crime types differ..
Sooooo, you are saying that us citizens need to keep guns because we are diverse country. So who is scared of whom here? What is the fear?
@@wm8673 we have guns because thats our inherent and inalienable right. full stop...
I love the different ideas being talked about. I would love to hear the difference in ideas from these students going to a very expensive college like Penn St vs a small community College where the student may have to work to be able pay for their own classes.
If we didn’t have 2A America and the world would be a much more authoritative place.
Thanks for reminding me that my new AR15 is ready to pick up
Only one?
There are five reasons for an American to possess firearms: 1) hunting, 2) competition, 3) recreation, 4) individual and collective self-defense, and 5) to exercise your civil rights (i.e. because you can).
Yeah but I wouldn't put it in that order.
I would not call myself a "gun guy". But I am definitely a "2A guy"..
The two reasons I have guns is for
1 - prevent tyranny
2 - defense of self and family (and anyone else around me)
hunting should be last on the list. Security is #1 priority
What frustrates me is that they're not discussing WHO those suicides are... A LARGE majority of the suicides in our country are active duty and or veterans. That would then modify this conversation even further.
That is not true, there are a lot of veteran suicides, but it is not the majority of cases.
@@dowutado Young adult deaths have increased I believe due to lack of preparation for what the real world required. So many kids are growing up spoiled rotten and are unable to handle the difficulties of life.
@@dowutado Give me another population that looses 22 people to suicide a day? while that number might have come down a bit, I do not know of a population with that high a number.
@DyvmSlorm According to Google the current average suicides a day is at 132. There does not have to be one group with more. 22 of 132 is not the majority. Like I said it is a lot, but it's not even close to the majority.
@@dowutado While they do not commit the majority of suicides, as a group, they can be the group that commits the majority of suicides.
So, think of it as plurality instead of majority. I believe that was the original point.
I've studied American history in a very in depth manner, and in all of my studies I've never come across a Bill of Needs. The private ownership of firearms is a hallmark of a free society, but unfortunately all societies are populated with imperfect human beings. Therefore a certain level of irresponsible firearm use is an inevitability in a free society. It's a price one must pay to live in a free society.
Why do countries with strict gun laws have far less murders and suicides?
I truly wish someone would have asked the panel.... "If gun ownership were legalized in your country, would you feel inclined to own one?
Great conversations on this channel, I'm actually shocked that he is able to have these without being shut down by the administration. How are these discussions distilled down to a key point or "take away"? How are exams administered in this class?
This is EXACTLY the way EVERY educator should be. Impossible to really pinpoint his political viewpoint - he argues MANY sides of every issue…he makes student think, and exposes them to alternate views in such a positive way.
I love his style, but he absolutely shows his leanings on the gun debate in this class.
I like the format of the class - but this guy is far left leaning, trying HARD to force himself to try to present some sort of centrist.
@@TeranRealtoryea, it's pretty obvious
When I went to school in 80 and 90s kids had guns in there trucks every day no mass shootings I watched as we started to see doctors throwing kids on all kinds of meds for every bad mood your in that's when these mass shootings started but we can't talk about that it has made it so much more worse . I now when I went threw a bad case of depression I went on meds I actually felt worse not better it a question we need to ask but where not allowed to talk about it
The basic problem of violence is a lack of respect for life in general and other people specifically. Teaching our children that it is acceptable that they exist because their mother chose to birth them belies the devaluation of life by our society. When a person can choose to take another person's life by denying and devaluing their humanity, society loses the basic understanding that life is precious. We see "others" as less valuable than ourselves and that puts our society in a very dangerous place. Race, religion, political beliefs can all be used to excuse hatred and violence against the "other". Welcome to 21st century America.
It's no coincidence that we see this rise in violence as we see people falling away from their churches, and criticism of believing in God increasing.
Why do I need a firearm? Why do I need free speech. Why do I need freedom to worship? Why do I need to vote?
It's my Right that's why! It's My Right!
저희 대한민국도 범죄가 없지는않아요. 하지만 총기로인한 범죄는 완만해서는 안나와요. 그 이유는 같은 나라 같은 민족인데 서로 아끼면서 그런 예절교육을 어렸을때부터 아니 선조들부터 배워왔어요. 그래서 총기사고 등등 모든 한국국민들이 말을하지않아도 몸에 배어있는것 같아요. 다른사람들한테 피해주는일 가슴아프게하는일은 하지말자. 이런 마음가짐같아요. 이런 이유로 대한민국이 이렇기 까지 발전한것같아요. 교수님 항상 강의 재미있게 보고있어요.. 제가 비록 대학을 다니지는 않지만 강의보고있으면 가슴이 뜨거워지고 웅장해집니다. 감사합니다
Yes, American culture is very divided, and we are taught hatred at ourselves and hatred at each other. Imagine if Korea and Japan had to share a government, despite the historical animosities. People are taught to hate our peers because of religion, because of skin color, because of political affiliation.... because of things that happened not to us, but to our ancestors. Even without guns, there are angry mobs willing to beat people with clubs or fists in the street. People will invade homes or workplaces to rob them, but also disregard their life because we are not identified as one people. We connect more to the drama, and the stories retold on the media networks, than to our neighbors and peers.
We have problems, but the problem is not with the guns.
We have always taught kids run/hide/fight, we just called it “Hide and Go Seek”
Food for thought: 32 people were killed at Virgnia Tech, 16 were old enough to legally carry a concealed gun.
More food for thought: the shooter was taking a popular med that is known to mix badly with young males, causing murderous thoughts, cause extreme acts of violence, and cause a numbing of human emotions, like sympathy and empathy.
It’s an issue of normalized violence X gun accessibility. We need to control both. The same people who become mass shooters would have been mass “stabbers” if they were in other countries. They would at least be limited in their ability to inflict violence on others in a short amount of time. We need to reduce both the percentage of people who are on the fringes of society and access to guns.
That would have to be one of the most incontrovertible and distinct comments relating to this topic. Thankyou so much for your thoughts I couldn't agree with you more.
this passed summer 11 people were killed by a mass stabber in canada. if canadians had a right to defend themselves there probably would have not been 11 people murdered
Defensive and preventative gun uses saving people are more numerous than offensive illegal gun uses. Important often neglected fact.
Let's look at just one example. The Vegas shooter. Horrible and evil as it was, he used guns with crappy bump stocks from a distance and didn't seem to have a plan to survive. Take away the guns and, sure, he might have gone with a sword. However, he was also a private pilot. How much worse would that tragedy have been had he crashed his plane into the crowd?
How about another one. The guy who drove through the parade. What if he had used a gun instead? Do you think, with the police presence, he would have hit as many?
One of the first mass school killings in the US was committed with a chain and a match. The doors to the school were chained and then the school lit on fire.
My point is there is a tool to be used for any atrocity and even though guns are just such a tool, they are not as easy to get as the media says (legally at least).
Affecting change on the normalization of violence will do SO much more to reduce these problems than making guns more inaccessible.
In the not so distant past mass shootings were much rarer. In the not so distant past people with mental problems were put in institutions where they could be treated or at least removed from the greater society so they wouldn't cause problems for the rest of society. Social media is causing problems for many people. I am sure these and other things contribute to the problem.
why is this problem newly developed? Lets say since 1966. but i grew up in the 70/80s and this wasn't a problem. Why has it spiraled out of control?
if this questioned isn't answered the problem will not be solved.
BTW, if you take guns then take alcohol, fast food, and all the other things that cause mass harm to our health. guns are the mechanism. if there are 320 million guns in the US only a handful will be used for violence. so 99.999% do not harm.
I like this guy, open mind and logical.
I loved when he said. “Obama is black so we have to watch out for black people, because you know…black people”
Buying a gun wasn’t always a right of passage? Bull 💩. In the 1960s and 1970s some high school kids would drive to school with a rifle on a gun rack in their truck. And not just in Texas, in Pennsylvania as well. So yes, it has been a cultural norm for a long time. Those kids decades ago weren’t shooting anyone. You missed the mark on that one, Professor.
"I was shooting at 5 years old" BS was what I thought when I heard that.
@@travisspicer5514In another video he said he wasn't even allowed to have a water gun.
A few years ago, I researched the data on gun homicides in the US, along with deaths from lightning strikes. One is literally more likely to be struck by lightning than to be killed by a gun.
"I feel like when the power is with the right people..."
Spoken like someone who's never encountered a politician. 🤣
He ask the Saudi kid to expand after he said the “Saudi government is authoritarian”. The poor kid could end up being called to the embassy to be killed and dismembered.
Great question "What is the common factor" (similar to what I posted below) but horribly uninformed answer from the Prof. Assuming in good faith just simple ignorance, let's set the record straight. No, it's not easier to get a gun now than it was in the past. Mail-order was a common way to buy a gun not so long ago. Also, the density of gun ownership has no, or possibly a reverse, correlation with shootings in an area.
Not only was mail order common, it was in some places the only way to get a gun.
And you could buy surplus machine guns that way.
No reason needed. From Federalism to the Constitution. Read it and get back to me
2nd amendment is one of may rights to prevent tyranny, whether the price is too high or not, it can be told whether people would rather live in USA or other countries. I think it's clearly told.
Mental health is a blanket statement. Depression can be labeled a mental illness but Depression doesnt mean youre homicidal. I own pew pews and never once thought of taking someones life but i am ready to if i need to defend my life or your life from someone trying to take it
How far of a stretch do you think it would be for leftists to say you’d have to be mentally ill not to be a leftist? I actually see a few narratives dancing around that belief already. Bet its coming
This is my response to how guns are seen in my country
We have guns here in Australia and ownership is highly regulated but still obtainable if you abide by the requirements for owning one. Most owners are farmers or people living in rural areas and they are seen and used like a plumber uses a wrench. They are a tool used to do a job so you should use the right tool for the job including sport shooting. That's why appropriate firearms are sold here. After our first and only mass shooting the population voted and agreed to ban and remove all fire arms that are not appropriate for the roles civilians need them for. The gun by back scheme was so successful in removing inappropriate firearms we have some of the lowest levels of gun violence in the world. You can still hunt here, you can still go to a range and shoot guns. Australia has several gold medalists in the Olympics for clay shooting. Gun ownership is totally ok as long as the populace respect them for what there intended purpose is while ensuring that regulations are in place for those that would see to do otherwise.
(And no our guns don't shoot out spiders, snakes, crocodiles sharks or anything like that either just regular bullets 😅)
USA has a higher percentage of black and latinos than Australia, who commit the vast majority of gun violence.
Defensive gun uses that protect people are more numerous than illegal offensive gun uses.
Didn’t Australia lock down hard and open up camps during C19?
Guns secure freedom.
I feel sorry for the people in Australia
If there’s only been one mass shooting in your country, how can one point to gun law changes as the reason there haven’t been any more? Something so rare that it only occurred once in history is obviously an anomaly and there’s no way to predict if there would be a next occurrence at all, let alone how to prevent it.
Has the gun law change impacted overall violent crime rates in your country? Were they trending up before the change and down after the change, did they trend the same, or down before, but up afterward? How have they trended compared to the US for the previous and post gun law change? Have the rates changed at a greater or lesser rate than countries that haven’t implemented similar gun laws? The reason I ask, is because there’s a theory that stricter gun laws actually increase violent crime victims as it can remove an impactful form of defense for the weak.
It is one of America's many fundamental rights, period. Be American, love America and protect yourself, your family and your friends & neighbors.......buy a gun. A gun has never been charged with a crime in the 531 years since Columbus landed in America.
Some of these CHILDREN glibly say there’s something wrong wit your morality if you use violence?
If you DON’T use violence to protect your
Self, your spouse, your children, I’d that moral?
Sometimes violence is
Evil, sometimes violence
Is necessary.
They grew up protected. Let us remember that these are individuals from another country studying in the US. While there are definitely programs for this. Either mommy and daddy are paying or you do not have a job that keeps you from going a semester abroad.
Nobody needs to have a reason to own any type of legal weapon. It's really nobody's business, certainly not the government's business.
You are safe out protesting because of your rights, and the reason we have ENFORCEABLE rights is our arms.
For me, this question is like asking me Why I need knifes in my kitchen. OR why I need wrenches in my tool box.
Yup!
A gun is just another tool.
I have seen horrible videos of bullying, very violent and sickening torture, and murder from dozens of countries during a content moderation job I had. These were from South America, China, and European countries mainly. There are sick people everywhere that do terrible things to others. I'm sure most exhibited some sign of their issues that could have, or should have been recognized by those around them. We need to pay closer attention and speak up when we see something that concerns us. I don't know how to keep people from abusing it for attention or revenge when they feel wronged.
The largest problem is one party has refused to protect our children. Our schools are far less protected than our professional sports teams.
The very main thing the 2nd was made for... was to fight a tyrannical government. Something our founders were VERY aware of.
Most people confuse "peaceful" with "docile".
The first guy said very little civilian violence. All depends on what you consider violence. Some might say the way women are treated in their culture is violence.
A question I would have liked to have been asked for the kid from Kuwait is this. Can he at least understand Americans wanting to have guns to protect fro tyranny considering he himself said wether you like the rules your gov makes or not you Jjst follow them and everything will be okay? I want my government to fear me.
It starts with the government teaches use of aggressive violence is morally acceptable