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How Pro Cyclists Train: The Truth Revealed! - Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 459
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
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// TOPICS COVERED
(00:00) Welcome!
(02:22) Sleep deprivation’s effect on performance
(31:25) Red Light Green Light Progress
(43:17) How Pro Cyclists Train
(01:09:03) How to manage perfectionism
(01:30:53) Why are top pros burning more carbs?
// RESOURCES MENTIONED
- The role of perfectionism in predicting athlete burnout, training distress, and sports performance: A short-term and long-term longitudinal perspective trainerroad.cc/Květon2021
- Sleep Deprivation TikTok: trainerroad.cc/thatsleepdoc
- Relationships between training dose and record power outputs in professional road cyclists: insights and threats to validity trainerroad.cc/Galloetal2023
- The Impact of Sleep Duration on Performance Among Competitive Athletes: A Systematic Literature Review trainerroad.cc/Kirschen2018
- Aitor Viribay Morales’ Tweet Thread: trainerroad.cc/AitorViribayMo...
- The Norwegian Method: Episode 3: trainerroad.cc/NorwegianMetho...
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// HELPFUL LINKS
- Have a question for the podcast? Ask here: trainerroad.cc/3HTFXNi
- Watch our latest Cycling Science Explained video now! • Science-Backed Nutriti...
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- TrainerRoad Forum: trainerroad.cc/3uHvLnE
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- Listen to the Successful Athletes Podcast: trainerroad.cc/3JmKrN5
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- Training Blog: trainerroad.cc/3gCdNdN
Family physician here. Please do not recommend medications especially for mental health or sleep. Temazepam is a benzodiazepine that has similar correlations with dementia and risk for addiction. This should be discussed with physicians.
Can they even sell it to you without a prescription in the US? :O
@@MiguelAugusto1982no. It’s a schedule 4 drug.
You guys have to stick a warning on the video for a moustache like that !
They’ll shave it for later
That sir, is called a pornstache.
That's the type of *state that comes with a free restraining order from nearing a schoolyard 😂
It is an unfortunate look
Ya’ll must be living on the internet. The mullet is back. The stache is back. Rock em while they’re still hawt 🤘😂
A great podcast, not a supprise as TR puts out great content. Jonathan thank you for opening up and letting us know you are human. We all have something we are riding away from. Keep up the great work.
This firetruck doesn't stop for red lights! 🚒💨
I’ve listened to every podcast and this has been the best one in a while. Jonathan, sharing his vulnerability and relaying it back to the science Topics was phenomenal highly recommended episode. Please do more like this!! More sciencey researchy stuff.
And I wouldn’t mind to be Let into red light green light as well 😉 😊
I would say the best one since coach Chad left.
Name suggestion: ReadyLight
It sounds like red light, but it tells you if you’re ready to perform
Love the podcast too, but I love Sarah's voice even more.
Best podcast in well over a year! Keep 'em coming!
I just liked the perfectionism section where everyone opened up.
Jonathan talks too much. Seems like in Zone 2 of talking :P
@@bodhisatwaghosh Comment reported
Love, love, love the return of the two hour podcast!
The new Red-light Green-light features sound fantastic, can’t wait to see the data on the career page 👏🏻👏🏻
Excellent podcast. Relevant topics - strive for excellence and determination versus hyper perfectionism paralysis - good topic to delve into.
Have you guys seen the new wahoo treadmill I think paired with TrainerRoad will be a game changer for non runners
Great episode this week. I love the up research study reviews.
I coach my son, Sam Holness, who is an autistic IM Triathlete. On sleep, training has definitely helped with his sleeping patterns. He now sleeps 7+ hours per night and 2/3 hours in the afternoon after working out in the morning. I find that nutrition is a much bigger issue. A healthy gut equates to a healthy mind
Absolutely loved this episode! Thank you so much for sharing your stories & experiences around perfectionism, passing on those traits to our kids & self love. So validating on every level. It’s so great to hear from parents trying to fit in some training. Thank you all for everything you do!
And Jonathan, my favorite parts are always your data insights, how you point out bias in studies & how you just keep on top of the data to keep things in perspective. Thank you!
Liked commented and subscribed! Thanks for keeping me entertained on the trainer.
Durian riders gonna love the carb facts
Excellent pod! Keep these coming
Great information, Thanks
Let the Lady talk.
I've been battling sleep deprivation n was able to fall asleep for 15 mins listening to this awesome podcast. Will rewind n continue.
I've been using this trick for the past 2 years now. Works wonders! 😁👌
Love the pod cast never miss it
Haven't listened in awhile, but this was great. Favorite part is the first 30 minutes of sleep/general talk.
Liked that. Thanks.
Great podcast. Looking forward to see more content related to what Aidor brought Up.
Thanks for the breakdown of the pro training study. Pretty much exactly what I have seen with the one pro athlete I have worked with. Her last year was 913 hours and 76% Z1, 17% Z2, 7% Z3
Glad it was helpful!
yes, please, do more of this type of videos! 🙏
You got it!
Anyone else finding the number of ads inserted into the podcast annoying?
Great information! Please do more science related videos/podcast! I’m like sponge bob soaking great info! Kudos for sharing your personal struggles. Helps the mortals relate to the gods!
I need to point one thing out in the linked paper. It says the power data come from SRMs and Dura Ace R9100-Ps. The latter are known to be accurate by knowledgeable cyclists (see DC Rainmaker and GP Lama). The paper links a peer reviewed source to show that these sources are valid. That source did not actually test the Dura Ace PM. This is a problem. The Dura Ace PM is not actually consistent.
I think the volume is very low... like it's half of the "music" loudness.
I think it's ok to turn it up esp. I wanna hear every subtle detail you are discussing 😊
The science podcasts are my favorite!
Yes, 3:00 am workouts are the staple
at the beginning of the year, Red Light-Green LIght was active on my TR account back to July 1st. For the first part of the year I was coming back from a pelvis injury (and following TR plan). In April I started to participate in my Masters racing class in Colorado and jumped into fast training rides. I had 10 yellow days and trained on 3 of those days. I did have 3 Red days, happy to say I did take those days off. It is good feedback to what my body was feeling at the time. I'm looking forward to seeing that released as I'd like to increase my TSS more than what my current TR plan has for me. I've been adding extra Z2 since end of October, but hesitant to change the interval workouts, just letting the TR AI make the adaptation post rides.
Just found this channel...amazing content. I liked and subscribed just so you know 😉
Add the ranking feature. I love comparing myself to others 😂
Where’s ivy ?
Will TR ever be able to take into account my Whoop data? Would be very beneficial for red light green light.
Athlete levels - definitely interested!
Interesting about sleep.
I’m doing a bike packing ultra in July that’s got a tight cut off time.
So I will be sleep deprived for around 10 days.
I ve seen the elite bike packing racers mostly get 2-6 hours sleep.
So I guess you can train your body to get used to the feeling mentally and physically.
Interesting stuff while on the turbo (winter time in Northwest Europe)
For the Red Light - Green Light feature, what are the plans for incorporating additional data from fitness trackers like Whoop (strain/recovery/sleep), or Garmin (Body Battery, Sleep Score,…), others…
As somebody that has done proper testing for a long time, all I can say is that every single percentage based system is very wrong for a large number of people.
Even doing 20 min tests produce wildly erroneous results for athletes at the ends of the endurance or sprinter spectrum and then all these percentage based systems are based off a bad test.
Please add the ranking function. Sounds like fun
How does red light / green light take strength training into account?
Is it just me, or is the audio mixed really quiet today?
Great pod, just quiet.
Yes, very low volume to other YT sources. There is an active topic on the TR forum about this via YT and other audio-only sources.
@@Chader9 Commercials come on and then I'm deaf for a few minutes 😆
Best episode since coach Chad “left”. Enough said.
I'd say pyramidal or polarized are basically the same. The take away is, do >>70% riding in the aerobic zone
No, polarized is 80% of training sessions in aerobic zones. Not the total amount of time. Don’t know how people miss this important part. So if you do five sessions a week then one of them should be hard intervals.
Re the pro cyclist training - I'd be interested in knowing more about the time spent in zone 1 (using their 3 zone system). Did they spend it mostly at the top of zone 1, or much lower? Ive seen a fair bit of anecdotal evidence that a lot of the low intensity work that pros do it well below LT1. If you look at MVP's strava you can see lost of time at the 200-250w range, which is well below his LT1, which would be at least 300w
Indigo suggests high Z2 level not low in the Aerobic zone (LA
@@CarnivoreDMD I know, but for world tour level cyclists this is about 300w, and none of them spend 15 hrs (75%) each week riding at 300w. Luke Plapp for example averages about 190w
@@bobbrian6526 I meant stay in the top end of your Z2 as much as possible for best outcome per Indego although I disagree with his view in extreme carb consumption. He says 80% with the other variable per target race conditions.
@@CarnivoreDMD right, this is where I think what he says is different from what pros actually do. None of them at staying in the top end of their Z2 from 75% of their training hours. Most of that Z2 work they do seems to be on the low end of their Z2. Also, even at fat max (top end of Z2) you are still using arounf 40% carbs, which means around 1000 cal carbs per workout or more. If they did low carb diet they would not be able to do even a low intensity workout after a couple of days
@@bobbrian6526 IF they we not “fat adapted”. Even Lance was training w/o card intake back in the late 1990’s. Other than doping, probably why the European cyclists were almost ALWAYS better, they had more fat in their diet. Mark Allen said there was no way to do Ironman length races without relying on your ability to utilize fat. I think a lot of the top pro’s are “ lean mass hyper responders” and they naturally have high LDL cholesterol but low triglycerides which helps natural fat utilization. Also why a lot of endurance athletes seem to have metabolic issue as they age.
So how do we shift workers train?? I have found zero resources with this and historically my coaches don’t understand it either.
Sarah ❤🎉
1:02:55 Hahahaha brilliant sense of humour. I didn't register if you delved into why they market Z1 up to 79%...
I shouldn't care is probably the answer.
I didn't think TR had ads on YT videos? I'm a TR user and the number of ads is just ruining it for me. Is it a change by TR or YT?
Even Polar bears don’t stick to a strict polarized plan 👨
Love Scotland. 🏴
You don’t have parent parking spaces in the US?
I wouldn’t say that’s how they “train,” obviously in a race they aren’t thinking about training and are riding at whatever pace to stay with the group. But yes, it is how they ride throughout the year and it is why they are so good.
Honestly just ride your bike. I see far too many new cyclists worrying about staying in Z2 and thinking if they touch a certain zone it’s the end of the world. For a lot of people, any sort of fatigue and consistency will make you faster, don’t over think it.
why so many ads this time? never seen the podcast so interrupted by ads
I think excluding the many races you mention these athletes are doing from their training hours, as if those races have no basis on their training fitness, may be a mistake. Sounds like their over all fitness regimen may well account and incorporate those high intensity races, which could explain the lack of those hours in the training between races. I have to wonder what the tables would look like including the races.
RLGL Alternate Names: Rip or Rest; Rip, Ride or Rest; Shred Light; Ready Light; Shrediness Score; Training State...
Anybody knows what happened to Ivy?
Anyone know the insta account the mention here? I canae find it…
Can you all please have the screen / camera on your eye level?
Havent they said there are no ads in their podcast? Im getting some. 😢
They don't have actual ads in the podcast as produced, but CZcams will serve ads unless you pay for their premium service. If you listen to the audio podcasts from the many sources, there are no ads.
what does it matter if a training distribution is called pyramidal or polarized? training should involve all intensities and durations (which is oft overlooked). its a matter of when to fit them into your programme.
Well said!
Where is ivy? Why do ppl dissapear at tr?
Well freaking said 👏 take your like and subscribe
Like to research podcasts.
IVY?
Sarah has an interesting accent. Ma’am are you from Kansas?
She's Scottish I'd say.
Ivy's gone!
First of all correlation in research can not be equated for causation in an observational study. Second, they are trying to defend their plans which have way too much intensity way way more than 80-20( regardless of how the 20% is spent -sweet spot/ anaerobic ) Their plans are More like 60-40 which none of the groups have in the Gallo et al study. They should show data about the superiority of that much intensity proportion in lower volume training ( which I don’t think it exists )
60/40 is better on 10 hours a week. You dont just scale down 80/20
@@thomashald8000No.
@@artjomtamm7751 yes 80/20 only comes in to play as a necessity when you do high volume. For speed/watts on low volume, intensity always Trumphs zone 2. Been racing cat a for more then 20 years now, and worked with a lot of coaches and scientists, been on the national team as a junior and senior, so i think i know a little about training. 80/20 is a way of adding on when you hit the max amount of hiit you can tolerate, which does very from person to person. But if you do 2 hiit session a week of 2 hours and 2, 3 hours zone 2 rides, thats pretty much the best distribution on a 10 hour week for most people in my humble opinion.
Can you show me the studies to support what you say Thomas.
@@eduardomacias637 if you show me yours first
I can't believe they used a 3 zone model! 🤦♂️
Because why not?
@@user-yn5sk5ru5g classics 5 oder 6 Zone Modell would show more of the typ of trainings. Especially with
It’s the logic model. I have 3. Aerobic and easy, threshold and interval sessions. Everything else is just over complicated.
@user-yn5sk5ru5g because unless you've done a lactate lab test it's meaningless. Zone 2 for example is different between 3 zone model and 6 zone model.
Nate needs to back off the Yerba Mate😂
Word! Jon seemed really uncomfortable at times...
Moustache aside, Sarah’s accent made up for the distraction! 😂😂😂
I'm not sure how people could figure that top pros are burning fat and not carbohydrates and then watch Jonas Vingegaard and Sepp Kuss ride up a mountain. Those guys are feeding constantly and they have sweet eff all when it comes to spare fat to burn.
I think that misses the point of Aitor's thread. Their body composition is the result of far more than just their substrate utilization while on the bike. The point is that their substrate utilization may not reflect popular assumptions.
Is there anyone not diagnosed with something ??
Why not call it 'Physiorhythm' instead of Red-whatever-it-was?
Nate does this everytime. He gets all excited and blabbers on about all these new features and then as as usual fails to deliver them.
Goobers
There are far better way to aid sleep than pharma drugs. Sour cherry juice, raw almonds, kiwi fruit, warm milk, magnesium powder, not eating 3 hours before bed, reducing screen time, etc etc. And delete tictok...no excuses.
also, look up banana peel tea !!
I'm inviting the "you idiot" comments by pointing this out, but if I'm reading these correlation plots correctly, the speakers don't ever mention the elephant in the room - that these negative correlation coefficients below the y-axis 0 actually indicate a reverse correlation to the X-axis measures. For example, on the one-day races plot at 51:54 bottom right, the Z1 & Z2 training time measures negatively correlate to the raceday RPO20 & RPO40. And the spread of the whiskers on many of the measures ranges across the positive to the negative correlation coefficient - meaning that with 95% confidence it helped OR hurt the racer with their race power outputs. Why would you spend so much time attempting to make any sense of these findings at all. Total waste, scientifically speaking.
I love the podcasts and generally never miss one, but I find the jerky movement of the speaker an irritation and would rather see a more natural presentation.
why does nate look like hes gunna cry
He always looks like he's on the edge and about to cry
Big spoiler: they don’t use TrainerRoad. 😂
Squid-aptive training
Bro it’s cycling on a bike your way to amped up for me. Relax have fun. It’s cycling for Christ sakes. I made 9 seconds in.
This podcast has really gone down the Sh*ter. Running out of things to talk about , so just regurgitating the same stuff …..,Nate’s moe is ridiculous.