Table sugar works super well for me. 1:1 glucose to fructose. Up to 120g per hour with sodium citrate and zero gut distress. Mixes easily in a blender bottle. Much cheaper than any marketed product out there, just as effective, and easily accessible at any grocery store. Game changer!
I've been taking a cheap drink mix (Vitalyte - $20/kilo - mainly glucose) and adding extra table sugar and sodium citrate to reach carb and sodium targets. Works for me.
This works for me too but definitely isn’t for everyone digestion wise. Unbelievably cheap and no negative effects for me after doing it for a year. I always chase each mouthful with water for dental hygiene reasons.
@@marcvb3364 i get headaches if i don't use 1000mg of sodium an hour. Also it cuts down the sweetness, I don't eat sugar off the bike so a banana tastes like cake to me. lol
Typical easy to moderate 3-4 hour ride I will do 60g sugar + 5g of salt. If it's going to be a hard ride 80g and if it's a race 100g+. If I'm building up to a race then incrementally build from 60 to 100. Eg. 70 one week 80 the next etc. If your stomach has issues go back down for an extra week. On rides under 3 hours I do 40-60g. In terms of salt I require more than average. Most people probably get by with 2-3g. @@jangel7424
I really wonder if you guys have ever actually tried mixing table sugar in bottles. 100g mixes in a few seconds of shaking with cold tap water in a 750ml bottle. It's just not an issue. Sucrose is 50/50 dextrose/fructose, and it's practically free. Paying $2+ per serving for "sports drinks" is just throwing money away.
We have. For a period of time there was an 80/20 style project here at TrainerRoad to make affordable, no BS carb mix with the intent to sell it, so we tested a truly massive amount of ingredients, mixtures, etc.
I use the juice of half a lemon per bottle, one tbsp of forest honey (more minerals than regular honey), and a scoop of Re-Lyte. I use hot water in the winter, and cold in the summer.
Totally works to mix sugar with water, no need to make a simple syrup. Just shake bottle a couple times and let sit for 30m-1h. Assuming your stomach can handle it of course 😂
I tried cluster dextrin and, for me, it did seem to take longer to digest and give me energy. I really didn’t like it for training rides under 2 hours but could see some benefits for super long endurance rides. I’m still going to keep using standard glucose and fructose drink mixes since they just seem to work better for me.
You gotta have big ballz (or ovaries) of fire to do downhill mountain biking -- along with incredible bike-handling skills so you don't kill yourself. Yet, bad accidents still happen. It's a very dangerous sport to say the least. And thanks for talking about H.B.C.D. (Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin), a.k.a., cluster dextrin @TrainerRoad. Appreciate the information. Keep it up guys.
Sugar water works for me. It's simple to prepare and easily available. I use it for long rides and high intensity training rides. If you're having stomach issues I suggest you take less until your system slowly gets accustomed to it.
Guys you should look at where the bodybuilding industry has been. Cluster Dextrin has all the rage a number of years back as an intraworkout fuel source. Nutrition is such a huge component of bodybuilding industry I would argue there is alot that can be learned looking at what has and had not worked in this space.
Worked for the sellers or worked for the users of the product? There are plenty of questionable supplements in the bodybuilding realm. Including ones that cause rage.
My experience with running stress on different surfaces: for me it is not the hardness of the surface that causes me problems, it's slope. Going down hill kills my legs, and running on a cambered road or non level path is also hard on my legs. If I can choose between a super hilly, soft chip trail, and a dead flat paved pathway I seem to be less likely to get injured on the paved pathway.
The TT bar rule changes are because at the pro level, it is now common to raise hands so high that it blocks the sight in front. In major events, riders were just looking down and using radio, follow car to tell them when to turn. It is faster with head down, and not looking ahead but stupid dangerous
Great podcast. Thanks. Regarding your recommendation on carb intake, my sense is that slower carbs could work better for those of us who don’t respond to carbs well from a glycemic point of view. Perhaps you could add the recommended levels of blood glucose for training/racing? That way we can try to reach the individual carb mix to get to those targets sustainably. I imagine the right blood glucose levels are between 100 and 120, but could it be useful for max efforts to reach higher levels?
I’ve been using maple syrup it works fine I’ll add 600mg of salt. 60ml is 220 calories and 55g carbs. That works out to $1 per dose. Definitely not the cheapest. But compared to scratch high carb $5.24 for 400 calories maple syrup costs $2 for 440 calories. I feel fine after 11 hours. 🤷🏻♂️
Crashes on a TT bike due to not being able to see are a big issue. Bernal didn't see a bus, Stefan Küng didn't see the barriers last year. The riders are being guided by the team car behind them.
I have better luck with regular Skratch than their high carb. 3 scoops of reg Skratch (heavy sweater) + gel every 30 min gets me a bit over 100g carbs an hour
Heart Rate Strap question. I have a heart rate strap that was messing up and not tracking my hear rate after like 30-40 minutes into the workout. Tried resetting it and tried using the gel to make sure it wasn't a contact/connectivity problem. I have since replaced the strap. Is there a way to mark these workouts with a technical fault? I would like to let the machine learning know that I really can't ride threshold with a 90 bpm heart rate.
You can! Go to the completed workout on TrainerRoad.com, click the "Edit" button (it's a button with a pencil on it), and you can un-check the box Career Inclusion box for "Progression Levels, AI FTP Detection".
My bet is that Red Bull will be entering the sports drinks/nutrition market. They've run the gambit on all the action sports and probably have reached every all-night truck driver there is. What's left? All those skinny cyclists?
Some exciting and compelling topics! Thanks,TR, for not being sponsored. Grateful you share your learning and advice for our benefit. P.S. Nate looks Great:)
It's strange these guys are super anti-table sugar, but cite Alex Harrison, who seems pro-table sugar from his TR forum posts. I've been using table sugar from costco for almost a year now. It's super easy to mix, it's super cheap and I can easily go 120-150g/hr for hours with no ill effects. Nate also said it's a pain to make into a gel? That's not true at all. It takes 3-5 minutes on a stove with light heat to turn into a syrup, with a consistency just like any over-the-counter gel that costs $1-3 per 20g/carb, which is absurd. The only downside is how sweet it us.
@user-hh2ne5hu1r @mojomonkey2112 There is a theory amongst youtube content creators that if you don't allow ads to be served on your content, that the distribution of your content is relatively handicapped. Most people create CZcams content to collect ad revenue, but that is not our goal. The goal of our content is reach as many people as possible and build trust with them, so reach is crucial. We enabled ads on our content as a test to see if it would increase reach, and sure enough, it has had a positive effect on reach. We're still measuring the benefit in reach and weighing whether it's worth the inconvenience it causes those who are used to the content not having ads. The reason we haven't mentioned it on the podcast is because that is due to lack of relevance, but we'll mention it on a future episode. Thanks for your feedback!
Table sugar works super well for me. 1:1 glucose to fructose. Up to 120g per hour with sodium citrate and zero gut distress. Mixes easily in a blender bottle. Much cheaper than any marketed product out there, just as effective, and easily accessible at any grocery store. Game changer!
I've been taking a cheap drink mix (Vitalyte - $20/kilo - mainly glucose) and adding extra table sugar and sodium citrate to reach carb and sodium targets. Works for me.
I do the same and add a bit of malodextrin sometimes to play with the ratio plus a squeeze of lime juice for flavor. Huge money saver.
Same, only problem is how much stickier it is than maltodextrin/fructose mixes. A few drips on your bottle and the thing turns into flypaper.
This works for me too but definitely isn’t for everyone digestion wise. Unbelievably cheap and no negative effects for me after doing it for a year. I always chase each mouthful with water for dental hygiene reasons.
Don’t give them the secret sauce please let everyone keep waisting money 😂
Table sugar, table salt, lemon juice. 100g/hr. Done.
100%. Been using this for years (without salt most of the year), and it's perfect.
@@marcvb3364 i get headaches if i don't use 1000mg of sodium an hour. Also it cuts down the sweetness, I don't eat sugar off the bike so a banana tastes like cake to me. lol
How many grams per hr in both sugar and salt?
@@jangel7424 I usually adjust depending on the intensity and duration, between 50-100gr per bottle/hour
Typical easy to moderate 3-4 hour ride I will do 60g sugar + 5g of salt. If it's going to be a hard ride 80g and if it's a race 100g+. If I'm building up to a race then incrementally build from 60 to 100. Eg. 70 one week 80 the next etc. If your stomach has issues go back down for an extra week. On rides under 3 hours I do 40-60g. In terms of salt I require more than average. Most people probably get by with 2-3g. @@jangel7424
I really wonder if you guys have ever actually tried mixing table sugar in bottles. 100g mixes in a few seconds of shaking with cold tap water in a 750ml bottle. It's just not an issue. Sucrose is 50/50 dextrose/fructose, and it's practically free. Paying $2+ per serving for "sports drinks" is just throwing money away.
We have. For a period of time there was an 80/20 style project here at TrainerRoad to make affordable, no BS carb mix with the intent to sell it, so we tested a truly massive amount of ingredients, mixtures, etc.
I use the juice of half a lemon per bottle, one tbsp of forest honey (more minerals than regular honey), and a scoop of Re-Lyte. I use hot water in the winter, and cold in the summer.
Totally works to mix sugar with water, no need to make a simple syrup. Just shake bottle a couple times and let sit for 30m-1h. Assuming your stomach can handle it of course 😂
I tried cluster dextrin and, for me, it did seem to take longer to digest and give me energy. I really didn’t like it for training rides under 2 hours but could see some benefits for super long endurance rides. I’m still going to keep using standard glucose and fructose drink mixes since they just seem to work better for me.
You gotta have big ballz (or ovaries) of fire to do downhill mountain biking -- along with incredible bike-handling skills so you don't kill yourself. Yet, bad accidents still happen. It's a very dangerous sport to say the least.
And thanks for talking about H.B.C.D. (Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin), a.k.a., cluster dextrin @TrainerRoad. Appreciate the information. Keep it up guys.
Thorough info - nice discussions. Y’all are consistent in incorporating athlete questions & diving in on their behalf. Well presented & executed.
Love this duo!!! You guys just cook together. 🔥
Sugar water works for me. It's simple to prepare and easily available. I use it for long rides and high intensity training rides. If you're having stomach issues I suggest you take less until your system slowly gets accustomed to it.
I started my own company Geluminati for this very reason. We make a cluster dextrin mix cheaper than the other guys
That's awesome!
Red Bull F1 team dominated the 2011-2013 season too, not only recently.
Yeah, a known for those that watched F1 prior to Drive to Survive ;)
I giggled a bit with not even a breath of Vettle and that history mentioned.
Guys you should look at where the bodybuilding industry has been. Cluster Dextrin has all the rage a number of years back as an intraworkout fuel source. Nutrition is such a huge component of bodybuilding industry I would argue there is alot that can be learned looking at what has and had not worked in this space.
Worked for the sellers or worked for the users of the product? There are plenty of questionable supplements in the bodybuilding realm. Including ones that cause rage.
Thank you !!! Found your youtube podcasts yesterday. It's sooooo inspiring to get back on the 'saddle'. 😎💯💖👍🚴♀
My experience with running stress on different surfaces: for me it is not the hardness of the surface that causes me problems, it's slope. Going down hill kills my legs, and running on a cambered road or non level path is also hard on my legs. If I can choose between a super hilly, soft chip trail, and a dead flat paved pathway I seem to be less likely to get injured on the paved pathway.
Hasn't Skratch already been selling this as their Super High Carb mix for a few years?
I have no problems with my home made sports drink which uses table sugar. 100g in a 1L bottle mixes fine.
Which glucose do you use? Keep going. Big fan of your plans! 👏👏👍
The TT bar rule changes are because at the pro level, it is now common to raise hands so high that it blocks the sight in front.
In major events, riders were just looking down and using radio, follow car to tell them when to turn. It is faster with head down, and not looking ahead but stupid dangerous
Great podcast. Thanks. Regarding your recommendation on carb intake, my sense is that slower carbs could work better for those of us who don’t respond to carbs well from a glycemic point of view. Perhaps you could add the recommended levels of blood glucose for training/racing? That way we can try to reach the individual carb mix to get to those targets sustainably. I imagine the right blood glucose levels are between 100 and 120, but could it be useful for max efforts to reach higher levels?
I’ve been using maple syrup it works fine I’ll add 600mg of salt. 60ml is 220 calories and 55g carbs. That works out to $1 per dose. Definitely not the cheapest.
But compared to scratch high carb $5.24 for 400 calories maple syrup costs $2 for 440 calories.
I feel fine after 11 hours. 🤷🏻♂️
Crashes on a TT bike due to not being able to see are a big issue. Bernal didn't see a bus, Stefan Küng didn't see the barriers last year. The riders are being guided by the team car behind them.
I was screaming "WHAT ABOUT KÜNG!" in my car yesterday.
I have better luck with regular Skratch than their high carb. 3 scoops of reg Skratch (heavy sweater) + gel every 30 min gets me a bit over 100g carbs an hour
Heart Rate Strap question. I have a heart rate strap that was messing up and not tracking my hear rate after like 30-40 minutes into the workout. Tried resetting it and tried using the gel to make sure it wasn't a contact/connectivity problem. I have since replaced the strap. Is there a way to mark these workouts with a technical fault? I would like to let the machine learning know that I really can't ride threshold with a 90 bpm heart rate.
You can! Go to the completed workout on TrainerRoad.com, click the "Edit" button (it's a button with a pencil on it), and you can un-check the box Career Inclusion box for "Progression Levels, AI FTP Detection".
My bet is that Red Bull will be entering the sports drinks/nutrition market. They've run the gambit on all the action sports and probably have reached every all-night truck driver there is. What's left? All those skinny cyclists?
Some exciting and compelling topics! Thanks,TR, for not being sponsored. Grateful you share your learning and advice for our benefit. P.S. Nate looks Great:)
It's strange these guys are super anti-table sugar, but cite Alex Harrison, who seems pro-table sugar from his TR forum posts. I've been using table sugar from costco for almost a year now. It's super easy to mix, it's super cheap and I can easily go 120-150g/hr for hours with no ill effects. Nate also said it's a pain to make into a gel? That's not true at all. It takes 3-5 minutes on a stove with light heat to turn into a syrup, with a consistency just like any over-the-counter gel that costs $1-3 per 20g/carb, which is absurd. The only downside is how sweet it us.
What's with the ads all of a sudden?!! Really hard to watch while I'm on the trainer... on TrainerRoad, ironically.
Also getting ads now. Maybe someone forgot to check a box? Can’t imagine they’d make this change and not mention it
@@mojomonkey2112 It's YT not the TR, it's been happening a lot lately across multiple channels
@user-hh2ne5hu1r @mojomonkey2112 There is a theory amongst youtube content creators that if you don't allow ads to be served on your content, that the distribution of your content is relatively handicapped. Most people create CZcams content to collect ad revenue, but that is not our goal. The goal of our content is reach as many people as possible and build trust with them, so reach is crucial. We enabled ads on our content as a test to see if it would increase reach, and sure enough, it has had a positive effect on reach.
We're still measuring the benefit in reach and weighing whether it's worth the inconvenience it causes those who are used to the content not having ads.
The reason we haven't mentioned it on the podcast is because that is due to lack of relevance, but we'll mention it on a future episode.
Thanks for your feedback!
Too many adverts in this episode. Didn't make it to the end....
Do you mean Dr Alex *Harrison*?
Ha ha, Nate..."this is my dream". Love it.
Mark Spitz joined TR? 😊
No Ivy? No word on her absence? Huh that's weird. Always classy, TR.