I just did a heat exchanger on exact unit. The one I did was from 2013. It only took me about 2 hours to replace once on site. They actually have a 20 year limited warranty
I just found/diagnosed a failed Secondary for a carrier furnace. Customer called us out because she smelt Bad eggs/fish when the furnace would run and thought it was a dead animal. I learned from watching you that I need to look at the Heat Exchanger because you mentioned that
😳 a local manufacturer here in Aus had a older model gas furnace that would notoriously suffer corrosion around the pressure switch tube that went down into the “sealed” heat exchanger… the negative pressure from the blower would then pull combustion gases straight into the supply ducting… Terrifying stuff, a customer of mine recently had one of these units
That style unit is one of the worst as far as heat exchanger failures. I’ve changed a many of them. You will have to reuse the faceplate when changing the heat exchanger. Also be prepared for some screw heads being corroded.
I usually find the cracks on those "Lennox" units within about the first 6" up top were the flames go into the heat exchanger. They were pretty notorious for getting those big oval hot spots on the side walls. And the crack would usually be right in the middle of the hot spot. And usually on either the far right tube or the far left tube 😎👍 Maybe the tsunami caused that unit to roll out! 😮💦💦💦💦💦
Pretty short life, but I know living outside a package unit takes a real beating. I see a newer ECM in that blower, way too clean to be original. Inducer bearings getting noisy, in addition to the bad heat exchanger. That AirEase ain’t so easy on the customers wallet. Another enjoyable video.
Went to a call yesterday where the blower came on at the same time as inducer. It turned out home owner installed a nest thermostat in the summer time, and it was programmed for heat pump.
Every one of those Lennox style package units I’ve touched seems like it has a bad heat exchanger. Especially In those little divets along the sides of the individual cells. If they not already rusted through, you can usually poke right through them with your bare finger
If you have to replace heat exchanger on package unit then always order the face plate with it as good practice. On occasion, replacing the heat exchanger without the face plate will not be possible because some of them are deteriorated beyond yiability. I have changed thousands of heat exchangers, particularly ICP/CARRIER among others Some were as old as 30 yr old but h o simply refuse to replace system.
Even though I do not know what the original complaint was, since the draft inducer was running continuously, it was probably the gas valve. This is what happens because the valve is monitored by the control board. There are about 4 pressure contacts inside the gas valve and due to metal fatigue, they do not make good contact and even break off. You can wire around the contacts.
Hope your change out goes well lol sell them a good unit if not under warranty. we have a lot of problems on package change out with old duct and bad sizing here in southern Kentucky. What a shame your right
I have 2 air ease 2 ton gas pack units that I installed myself 15 years ago. I use natural gas from my own gas well. Both units have developed holes in the heat exchanger. In the past I had to change both draft inducer motors and repair the wiring in one gas valve because the crazy little pressure contacts broke off. I wired around them. The holes in the heat exchanger are caused by rust in the dimples of the exchangers. I have replaced one of them with a mr cool unit but only used heat so far as it has been so cold. If this mrcool unit proves satisfactory, I will purchase another identical unit as it takes a unit on both ends of my house. I have sensors in all rooms that detect natural gas and monoxide and the system will turn of all gas coming into the house. Hopefully these new units will be ok.
@@asintonic hot flue gas goes through that heat exchanger on the inside. Air from the home flows across the outside of it to pick up heat. The two should never mix, but rust makes it so. Then you've got combustion gas inside your home, potentially deadly. And yes the heat exchanger can be replaced, although it's sometimes more economical to replace the whole shebang.
The old click and dip. Yeah, if a rollout is tripped, spend some time inspecting everything. Once had a wasp nest inside a draft inducer that was causing the heat to light, but not induce enough draft leading to a backfire when some of the unburnt gas finally lit.
All outdoor package units condense in the HX. The reason is especially in humid climates, that inside of the HX is always exposed to outside air, it gets in thru the exhaust outlet. If the homeowner keeps the A/C cranked in the summer, so that the internal temp of the HX is well below the outdoor ambient dewpoint, you'd be surprised how much they can "sweat" inside. Coastal areas are even worse, that salt air mixed with water really trashes heat exchangers fast. Back in the 1980's me and my Dad would replace Carrier heat exchangers on a restaurant across the street from the beach, and it was just routine maintenance to replace the HX's on the two rooftop units every 3 years. The restaurant owner could not afford to keep buying new units every 3 years! So was much cheaper to just replace them on a schedule. Even stainless steel can corrode in that kind of environment. The only way to make something last would be to make a HX out of some kind of Cupro-Nickle alloy, but the huge problem with using that is they are very intolerant to repeated extreme thermal cycling and would crack in no time. And a cracked HX is just about as useless as a rusted out one, lol. I guess you could build one out of Inconel out of recycled jet engine turbine blades, but nobody's going to buy a $20,000 furnace, you could buy 7 Aire-Ease for that much. lmao.
#Question ... Nordyne/Miller CMF95 /072 Mobile Home Propane Gas Furnace, 4 years old. When the furnace is cooler & only running once every 3 hours or so, it takes 26 seconds from the "CLICK" of the Hot Surface Igniter to the "CLICK of the gas valve opening & flames coming on, BUT >when the furnace is running every 45 minutes during colder weather, there are only 8 seconds between the igniter "CLICK & the Gas valve "CLICK, would you consider that normal ? The furnace uses a Silicon Nitride type Igniter. I have OCD, so I am inclined to pay attention to this kind of stuff & have been counting the time between clicks for months now, I live in Mass. & noticed as I leave the furnace on full time, versus controlling the firings during the early Fall, it just fell to 8 seconds versus the 26 seconds, & if I turn the furnace off for a few hours, it goes back to the 26 seconds for the first burn. I would have thought the Control board would have a fixed time for such an operation, your opinion would be great. Thanks ... LOVE your videos
Got a question. I'm trying to help a friend. He has a unit that looks just like this one. I replaced a high limit switch. Due to it being all crusty. But there's flame roll out in one of the 3 cells. While it does run a short period of time. The new high limit shuts it all down. My question is why the God awful smell. Almost like a chemical smell. Almost like formaldehyde smell. Is that a clogged heat exchanger?
Yes! What you're smelling is actually acetaldehyde, a byproduct of incomplete combustion. It can have a sickeningly sweet kind of smell to it. Shut it down. You can get a replacement heat exchanger, they usually have a 20 year warranty on them. Even if not under warranty a lot of times they aren't very expensive. These Lennox/airease units I wouldn't though, they don't give you new screws and faceplates etc, and dealing with rusted off screws is a pain in the butt. Also, if you're going to replace the heat exchanger I wouldn't do it without new burners as well. The problem with those style of burners is they get rusty, and the crosslighters get clogged with rust; there's only a tiny slit that lets the flame jump from burner to burner. This can result in delayed ignition or ignition failure because the flame sensor is usually on the farthest burner from the ignitor.
There are a few things that could be wrong, take blower motor out and inspect heat exchanger, check all orfices and gas connections, if it’s a package unit then must be level on pad or condensation will not drain out the inlet of the heat exchanger. Depending on the age chances are the blower is blowing the flame back due to a hole. As the unit warms up the hole will become bigger. Must inspect operation and see what it’s doing if heat exchanger is still in tact. The list goes on, can’t diagnose without actually looking at it
Ahh thats nothing. Ive seen them literally with cracks on bends with rust around the whole thing. People push things till they have no choice but to replace it...
There should be very little to no CO in the house. The pressure from the blower motor on the external parts of the heat exchanger should be greater than the negative pressure inside the HX from the induced draft blower. As long as the induced draft motor is in good shape, which it was. The bigger issue is that rollout switch is going to keep tripping to the point it won't reset anymore, those little rollout manual reset high limits can only be tripped a few times, and then they're junk, they're very cheaply made. Bypassing the limit is a really bad idea, if there's enough rollout it could start a big fire in the unit, and burn up all the wiring etc. I saw one that that happened to 10 years ago, there was not much left of the circuit board, all the wires and transformer, and thermostat wires was charred, compressor contactor etc. This was a 2.5 ton Rheem package unit. I was able to get a new heat exchanger for it under warrranty, but they didn't cover replacing the contactors, wiring harness, 24v transformer, control board. It could have been a lot worse, but managed to save it. The only reason for saving it really, was the compressor had just been replaced the prior year, and the A/C side of things was working very well. If it didn't have a new compressor and indoor blower motor in it already, then it would not have been worth repairing at all.
I just did a heat exchanger on exact unit. The one I did was from 2013. It only took me about 2 hours to replace once on site. They actually have a 20 year limited warranty
Can you please tell me where you purchased the new heat exchanger for this unit?
I just found/diagnosed a failed Secondary for a carrier furnace. Customer called us out because she smelt Bad eggs/fish when the furnace would run and thought it was a dead animal. I learned from watching you that I need to look at the Heat Exchanger because you mentioned that
😳 a local manufacturer here in Aus had a older model gas furnace that would notoriously suffer corrosion around the pressure switch tube that went down into the “sealed” heat exchanger… the negative pressure from the blower would then pull combustion gases straight into the supply ducting…
Terrifying stuff, a customer of mine recently had one of these units
That style unit is one of the worst as far as heat exchanger failures. I’ve changed a many of them. You will have to reuse the faceplate when changing the heat exchanger. Also be prepared for some screw heads being corroded.
unless you order a new vestibule panel with heat exchanger, saves you most of the headaches
I usually find the cracks on those "Lennox" units within about the first 6" up top were the flames go into the heat exchanger. They were pretty notorious for getting those big oval hot spots on the side walls. And the crack would usually be right in the middle of the hot spot. And usually on either the far right tube or the far left tube 😎👍
Maybe the tsunami caused that unit to roll out! 😮💦💦💦💦💦
yeah, looked like the left flame was borderline roll out and running fat. probably the side that's spanked on that one.
This is what I have found in both m,y units.
Pretty short life, but I know living outside a package unit takes a real beating. I see a newer ECM in that blower, way too clean to be original. Inducer bearings getting noisy, in addition to the bad heat exchanger. That AirEase ain’t so easy on the customers wallet. Another enjoyable video.
Saving lives is what you do! 👍👍
Went to a call yesterday where the blower came on at the same time as inducer. It turned out home owner installed a nest thermostat in the summer time, and it was programmed for heat pump.
Every one of those Lennox style package units I’ve touched seems like it has a bad heat exchanger. Especially In those little divets along the sides of the individual cells. If they not already rusted through, you can usually poke right through them with your bare finger
Nothing much better than a package unit
Why I liked commercial work
If you have to replace heat exchanger on package unit then always order the face plate with it as good practice. On occasion, replacing the heat exchanger without the face plate will not be possible because some of them are deteriorated beyond yiability.
I have changed thousands of heat exchangers, particularly ICP/CARRIER
among others
Some were as old as 30 yr old but h o simply refuse to replace system.
Great video once again
They don't need heat at the moment as it was 78 in Greenville today. Looks they'll live to see another day....
Even though I do not know what the original complaint was, since the draft inducer was running continuously, it was probably the gas valve. This is what happens because the valve is monitored by the control board. There are about 4 pressure contacts inside the gas valve and due to metal fatigue, they do not make good contact and even break off. You can wire around the contacts.
Hope your change out goes well lol sell them a good unit if not under warranty. we have a lot of problems on package change out with old duct and bad sizing here in southern Kentucky. What a shame your right
how is that not under warraty? its only 9 years usually it has 15-20 years even for residential unit.
I have 2 air ease 2 ton gas pack units that I installed myself 15 years ago. I use natural gas from my own gas well. Both units have developed holes in the heat exchanger. In the past I had to change both draft inducer motors and repair the wiring in one gas valve because the crazy little pressure contacts broke off. I wired around them. The holes in the heat exchanger are caused by rust in the dimples of the exchangers. I have replaced one of them with a mr cool unit but only used heat so far as it has been so cold. If this mrcool unit proves satisfactory, I will purchase another identical unit as it takes a unit on both ends of my house. I have sensors in all rooms that detect natural gas and monoxide and the system will turn of all gas coming into the house. Hopefully these new units will be ok.
old mercury bulb thermostat would back feed everything when one circuit is jumped.
Good find ... Some people don't understand how dangerous that situation can be ... Good call Ted ... Thx
Hi, im new to all this could you please explain a short version of what happened? could that rusty component be replaced?
@@asintonic hot flue gas goes through that heat exchanger on the inside. Air from the home flows across the outside of it to pick up heat. The two should never mix, but rust makes it so. Then you've got combustion gas inside your home, potentially deadly. And yes the heat exchanger can be replaced, although it's sometimes more economical to replace the whole shebang.
I work in the same area as Ted. I'm changing a heat exchanger in one tomorrow, the distributor ordered a whole batch them.
you guys are lucky with these package units. so much easier than split systems.
Well Ted, That system needs to be kept in a safe n sound condition for safety reasons 👍 Au
Great video!!
What a craptastastic heat exchanger. Hopefully they stopped running it!
Waking up dead, that's a good trick... Unless you're a zombie I guess.
this is the reason i always get a 6 month PM done on mine gas works nice and quick
and unlike a heat pump works super hot every time
Drill/impact is a must always when approaching package units and on rooftops
A good example of why you MUST have at least 2 Carbon Monoxide detectors in your home.
Whenever I hear the term roll out I think of the rapper RIDICULOUS lol
Well, I hope you get the business, whether repair or changeout.
Wow, a furnace OUTside a house? Never seen one of those before.
Always gotta look for the “WHY” instead of just “fixing”
The old click and dip. Yeah, if a rollout is tripped, spend some time inspecting everything. Once had a wasp nest inside a draft inducer that was causing the heat to light, but not induce enough draft leading to a backfire when some of the unburnt gas finally lit.
Thx Ted.
holes/cracks in the heat exchanger always scares me how dangerous it can be.
Ted, Doing any racing. Love to see more about your cars.
First time I've seen a furnace installed outside.
“How the hell do you wake up dead?”
Going to sleep alive.
It happens in the queue line to the Pearly Gates.
You go to sleep in your bed and wake up in heaven. From carbon monoxide poisoning
i wish someone would be kind enough to explain. im new to this.
I didn’t know furnaces had Windage trays
Zip it Joe
@@TedCookHVAC 😂😂
How are you doing after the water 💦 brake.
Hope you get all from the water company.
The flames seem ok but with the blower coming on immediately it is harder to tell if it only has smaller or fewer holes.
Looks like new motor and in good shape other than the hx? Hopefully the owner went with it.
You guys are lucky. In NY no chans that kind of access. One may be lucky if find oarking in the same block.
And today video is great.
No 80%er works with the burners on top and inducer on the bottom, heat is meant to rise, looks like it was condensing in the hx.
when not oversized and correct airflow, they're just fine... that rules out 90%+ of installs, due to hack work and idiocy🤣
All outdoor package units condense in the HX. The reason is especially in humid climates, that inside of the HX is always exposed to outside air, it gets in thru the exhaust outlet. If the homeowner keeps the A/C cranked in the summer, so that the internal temp of the HX is well below the outdoor ambient dewpoint, you'd be surprised how much they can "sweat" inside. Coastal areas are even worse, that salt air mixed with water really trashes heat exchangers fast. Back in the 1980's me and my Dad would replace Carrier heat exchangers on a restaurant across the street from the beach, and it was just routine maintenance to replace the HX's on the two rooftop units every 3 years. The restaurant owner could not afford to keep buying new units every 3 years! So was much cheaper to just replace them on a schedule. Even stainless steel can corrode in that kind of environment. The only way to make something last would be to make a HX out of some kind of Cupro-Nickle alloy, but the huge problem with using that is they are very intolerant to repeated extreme thermal cycling and would crack in no time. And a cracked HX is just about as useless as a rusted out one, lol. I guess you could build one out of Inconel out of recycled jet engine turbine blades, but nobody's going to buy a $20,000 furnace, you could buy 7 Aire-Ease for that much. lmao.
Dang that looks bad. Do you find many failed by wrong return size or incorrect gas pressures? I've seen gaspacks 3-4 years old that had holes in them.
That is an Armstrong unit. I remove the top of the unit to see the heat exchanger on all these styles of units.
Hey it’s a Ted video - the Package Wizard. Like the pinball wizard but different.
#Question ... Nordyne/Miller CMF95 /072 Mobile Home Propane Gas Furnace, 4 years old. When the furnace is cooler & only running once every 3 hours or so, it takes 26 seconds from the "CLICK" of the Hot Surface Igniter to the "CLICK of the gas valve opening & flames coming on, BUT >when the furnace is running every 45 minutes during colder weather, there are only 8 seconds between the igniter "CLICK & the Gas valve "CLICK, would you consider that normal ? The furnace uses a Silicon Nitride type Igniter. I have OCD, so I am inclined to pay attention to this kind of stuff & have been counting the time between clicks for months now, I live in Mass. & noticed as I leave the furnace on full time, versus controlling the firings during the early Fall, it just fell to 8 seconds versus the 26 seconds, & if I turn the furnace off for a few hours, it goes back to the 26 seconds for the first burn. I would have thought the Control board would have a fixed time for such an operation, your opinion would be great. Thanks ... LOVE your videos
Uncle Ted!, how's the parking lot repairs going?
My Parent's Trane did that a few years ago.
I seen you find a lot of broken heat exchangers. I wonder if its a southern thing because of the use or humidity?
Most likely lack of start up procedures.
How do you like that flashlight?
Got a question. I'm trying to help a friend. He has a unit that looks just like this one. I replaced a high limit switch. Due to it being all crusty. But there's flame roll out in one of the 3 cells. While it does run a short period of time. The new high limit shuts it all down. My question is why the God awful smell. Almost like a chemical smell. Almost like formaldehyde smell. Is that a clogged heat exchanger?
Yes! What you're smelling is actually acetaldehyde, a byproduct of incomplete combustion. It can have a sickeningly sweet kind of smell to it. Shut it down. You can get a replacement heat exchanger, they usually have a 20 year warranty on them. Even if not under warranty a lot of times they aren't very expensive. These Lennox/airease units I wouldn't though, they don't give you new screws and faceplates etc, and dealing with rusted off screws is a pain in the butt. Also, if you're going to replace the heat exchanger I wouldn't do it without new burners as well. The problem with those style of burners is they get rusty, and the crosslighters get clogged with rust; there's only a tiny slit that lets the flame jump from burner to burner. This can result in delayed ignition or ignition failure because the flame sensor is usually on the farthest burner from the ignitor.
Do you like your friends alive or dead?
You need to get a pro in
There are a few things that could be wrong, take blower motor out and inspect heat exchanger, check all orfices and gas connections, if it’s a package unit then must be level on pad or condensation will not drain out the inlet of the heat exchanger. Depending on the age chances are the blower is blowing the flame back due to a hole. As the unit warms up the hole will become bigger. Must inspect operation and see what it’s doing if heat exchanger is still in tact. The list goes on, can’t diagnose without actually looking at it
How exact do you wake up dead teach me.
Seems odd to have the burners up too above the inducer, gas will cool off and possible condense and rot the bottom
i bet the corrosion is from having the heat exchanger downstream of the evap coil in a humid climate.
How much for a heat exchanger
👍👍👀🇺🇸
That gas according to my type 1 exam book must be burned off as flue gas othrrwise it can explode because its not making a complete burn.
Ahh thats nothing. Ive seen them literally with cracks on bends with rust around the whole thing. People push things till they have no choice but to replace it...
What is your favorite song
That thing should no be legal the way it is make. Just park car start engine in garage and close door.
can tell how the flames are acting is that it is junk
Do you really wake up after you're dead?
Poor unit is just a baby and already has rusty heat exchanger made in China:(
Airease you right to sleep
carbon monoxide kills
im sure you disabled it lol
Why did you change your channel name to "Anti" DIY? You don't like the DIY HVAC channel?
He is a different channel. I was around many years with this same name.
@@TedCookHVAC I like the other guy because he calls out how crooked the industry is.
unless they have carbon monoxide detectors thoughout in their home and working properly and they still will wake up alive/well
There should be very little to no CO in the house. The pressure from the blower motor on the external parts of the heat exchanger should be greater than the negative pressure inside the HX from the induced draft blower. As long as the induced draft motor is in good shape, which it was. The bigger issue is that rollout switch is going to keep tripping to the point it won't reset anymore, those little rollout manual reset high limits can only be tripped a few times, and then they're junk, they're very cheaply made. Bypassing the limit is a really bad idea, if there's enough rollout it could start a big fire in the unit, and burn up all the wiring etc. I saw one that that happened to 10 years ago, there was not much left of the circuit board, all the wires and transformer, and thermostat wires was charred, compressor contactor etc. This was a 2.5 ton Rheem package unit. I was able to get a new heat exchanger for it under warrranty, but they didn't cover replacing the contactors, wiring harness, 24v transformer, control board. It could have been a lot worse, but managed to save it. The only reason for saving it really, was the compressor had just been replaced the prior year, and the A/C side of things was working very well. If it didn't have a new compressor and indoor blower motor in it already, then it would not have been worth repairing at all.
Most likely they will wake up cold, because that roll out switch will just trip again.
If I wake up dead... Did I even wake up?
1300 views, zero comments?!
First?
First 🎉