I have used JB Weld to make repairs in aluminum and also in aluminum to a copper connection on a rv refrigerator. So far I haven't had a failure. Thanks for the videos
I have used Jb on lots of things including a defective 1 inch ball valve which was 10 years ago and it’s still holding strong, “ note “. I will only use it if I absolutely have to
Good Job. I wish more technicians would learn coil repair. Aluminum welding isn't that hard. I prefer a propane torch, which burns cooler than MAP gas. Back in the day, I had a worker have many leaks soldering copper pipe for water heaters. I took his MAP gas torch away and loaned him my Bernz--O-Matic propane torch. No more leaks.
Have had issues with trane aluminum coils since about 2016 or so. Not many issues here lately was told by trane tech when we statted noticing a pattern that leaks were being caused by flux getting stuck in the weld ring and dissolving away and blowing out over a couple heating/cooling seasons. Absolute pain. Not an isolated issue. We were, and still are, going back on what seemed like 1 out of every 3-4 installs becuase of leaking coils. Repaired a few with al822 rod in a pinch but stopped repairing after several would start to leak again from a different spot. Always at the solder joint. If you choose to braze, make sure you clean with a stainless wire wheel or brush. Cleanliness and the right heat are crucial for a good weld on aluminum.
Big Blue works better when set to "stream" and if you spray slower. If the leak is really big the nitrogen will blow the solution off the hole without making bubbles.
after years on the trade, the best repair to me would be to replace the coil. however one thing you could have done was to hook the vacuum while trying to repair the coil and let mother nature give you a helping hand . good video
That Lucas Milhaupt AL822 is the best I’ve found. I’ve only tried 2 though the Solder weld and the Lucas Milhaupt. I liked the way the AL 822 flowed and I’m confident to make repairs with it. I saw that stack of hundreds on top of that Trane condenser, you must’ve had a good week!
Lucas Milhaupt AL822 repaired my trane aluminum to copper leak at a spine fin header. Two local hvac outfits that advertise "repair, dont replace!" both declined to repair. I bought everything, taught myself in a few hours and got it fixed. Still working three years later.
Good job I just watched the the video from your buddy my hvac life where he did the comparison between solder weld and Al 222 and al222 to me was clearly the winner. As you did not need to flow nitrogen through the pipes and looked neater and cleaner. Ohh and Ted what the hell is up with that awful looking screw hose clamp on a copper pipe that is not meant to be used on that. Period you can use it for a fual line repair on a car. And for car coolant hoses if done corectly but for residential hvac or Comercial hvac I have never seen that. Whats next is the next big hvac lazy man trick going to be use big gap foam in a can from Lowes to try and repair a copper pipe leak. I am not saying that's you but that's the kind of stuff when I see that, that makes me mad. Other wise great job and thanks to people like you who actually test things to see if it works or not It makes the world a better place. .
I don't know if I like the way that stuff flowed. I've only tried to Solder Weld, it sticks and works, I kind of like the way the flux is put on separately so that you can flex the area completely where you wanted to stick at. With this stuff from uni weld it looks like you've got a kind of smeared all over to get the flux spread out. The hard thing to learn to do with solder weld was hold the heat and the rod in place at the same time versus heating your base metal up then applying the rod. That's so against everything we've ever learned. But that's how the solder weld for aluminum works. PS Lora said we got us a spitter😅😅
I did an aluminum patch on a condenser 3 years ago. Still holding strong. The product I used didn’t do as well. I had to pull just a little vacuum on it to get it to pull in and hold. It was about 6 months out of warranty. I had an evap coil that had a bad joint like this one. Only had been in 4 months.
You couldn’t have said truer words about the EPA 💯. Another government many maker. Good repair on the leak! I have done successful repairs on aluminum piping before that’s still holding. The trick is to regulate the heat for me anyway
I would recommend using big blue streaming instead of spraying. The micro bubbles will show up almost immediately. Just a suggestion! Love your channel!
Coils like this should be pressure rated so customers know what they are buying. The evaporator is on the low pressure side but if for some reason the pressure is higher than it should be due to a faulty metering valve, overheating or some other reason it will fail if built only to withstand normal working pressures. They should be built to handle the high pressure load which would mean they might cost a little more but as a homeowner I would be willing to pay it.
Interesting test repair Ted thank you for sharing this. Is that stack of green paper on that new condenser a promotion from Trane? Also I love “visiting” your shop, always lots of cool stuff to see. …we agree completely on the other subject you discussed. 🇺🇸
Some of the American Standard/Trane replacement TXVs come with a worm gear clamp. Some come with the clip. I always keep the clips off old coils so I have some for each diameter suction line and bulb size.
Might try a Dremel tool with their small wire wheel brushes to clean up the joint before soldering. Aluminum re-oxidizes quickly so you have to get on it quickly after cleaning.
That must have been poor quality control when that coil was constructed to fail after just four years. I know there is expansion and contraction and pressure going on but to see something fail that doesn't have any moving parts drives me crazy. Are these built by hand or an automated process?
What the heck?? The formation of that hole is interesting, as it looks like it’s always been there. The million dollar question is why did it last so long. That’s just weird and you’re right!
i had the best luck with a stainless brush on a dremel or drill and acetone to clean with, sometimes you can pre heat then spray it with alcohol then finish heating the base material, AL822 worked best for me as well
I did do a pressure test and check, just started signing off and then doubled back. 30:26 of the video czcams.com/video/XWbqrcCqlqg/video.html May be another video other than the one you saw. Was testing leak detectors and doing a repair.
We've had a couple of Trane coils with that almost exact failure. I'm guessing it is sealed well enough to pass the factory check and then fails pretty quickly afterward
Manufacturers should be required to warranty those coils longer or simply built them better, which is probably the lessor cost in the long run. There just is no darn way I would spend much on a system that has inferior design and workmanship from the maker. These new systems should last no less than the previous systems of the 1990's !
hey ted I know it is holding at that low pressure but that is a 410a coil and with a season it will easily hit 500 psi. check at that pressure for a day or two and see if that holds? just for S and giggles.
Seems can probably do low long flame on oxy-ace torch and probably be ok but I've not brazed aluminum or really its not brazing but soldering. Soldering is lower temp
If these manufacturers had to pay for the refrigerant I bet they'd figure it out pretty quick. I've had both evap and condensers replaced and two compressors in 8 years. Sure, they replace the part under warranty but the labor and gas is ridiculous. Will we ever go back to making quality again?
Thin walled metal to save costs and increase profits seems to be the norm. Built to fail after warranty runs out. They can make them like they once did. Same as everything else made these days (a conspiracy to screw the consumer).
Yes they can make quality again but consumers don’t want to pay the price. Build coils in USA using quality products and quality control, which requires paying employees $35 plus an hour plus benefits. It would add $500 or so more dollars to cost of equipment. Consumers want the cheapest price with a name brad badge on their equipment. I do HVAC and have lost jobs of being $200 over the cheapest bidder. The cheapest bidder cuts corners (leaving old line sets, no nitrogen flow, leaving old pad and disconnect). It’s all about $$$$$.
@@joeburner7120 Seeing that I've spent almost 10k on top of the original installation over the last 8 years, I'd gladly kick out an extra grand for the equipment if it ran problem free for 15-20 years without any major problems (besides stuff like contactors and capacitors).
Those big leaks just blow the bubble solution away. What about using a little aluminum wheel cleaner to etch the area, then brake clean and you alumafix rod of choice?
Lucas started after he the owner sold Harris. The only product I hate is their 5%. He must forgotten the Harris recipe. I bet if you used a designated flux as you heated that, and not relied on the "flux core" you would have filled that hole the first time. Just like a water line when you get a little something in the joint, heated it and flux it.
Imo I don't like aluminum coils and rather have copper ones. I guess I'm use to old school but seems they are too brittle to leaking. Well we will see how this goes Ted you may change my mind.
It's not so easy when that leaks in an engine bay. And not sitting on a bench. I put a whole new AC system in and had trouble finding a leak with smoke with dye it didn't matter You couldn't hear it but it sure wouldn't pull it vacuum.
1 out of 3 or 4 going back in 6 months or less is taking it's toll on small business. To use aluminum there needs to be heavy wall tube ! All of this to get 1 point of efficiency = EPA focus is to stop leaks and venting? Now with these unrealistic efficiency mandates ? Definitely leaking a lot more refrigent because of the crap aluminum coils ? Carrier had aluminum coils in the late 70s early 80s and stop making units with aluminum because of the chronic problems. Now with the push toward FLAMMABLE refrigent and compression fittings 🤤 will the new leak detection be a torch 🔥 oops.
What you did is all it takes, does not need to be pretty! Propaganda, LMAO! That one would be a challenge in the field for sure. I use the MAP torch that has the hose from tank to handle, is a little easier to maneuver in tight spots. The only time I really do these are when the replacement coil is a long way out on order and we want to try to get some cooling in real hot weather or elderly or babies or bad health.
Mr. Cook, I truly enjoy your videos. Your candor, honesty as a contractor, and funny personality are a true pleasure to watch. Thank you!
I have used JB Weld to make repairs in aluminum and also in aluminum to a copper connection on a rv refrigerator. So far I haven't had a failure.
Thanks for the videos
I assume a lower pressure on a fridge.
I have used Jb on lots of things including a defective 1 inch ball valve which was 10 years ago and it’s still holding strong, “ note “. I will only use it if I absolutely have to
I used it on a 1 inch ball valve under 80 pounds city water pressure, still holding after 10 years
@@HenryMancini-rg3xmchange out the dadgum valve.
Good Job. I wish more technicians would learn coil repair. Aluminum welding isn't that hard. I prefer a propane torch, which burns cooler than MAP gas. Back in the day, I had a worker have many leaks soldering copper pipe for water heaters. I took his MAP gas torch away and loaned him my Bernz--O-Matic propane torch. No more leaks.
Great point!
You nailed it on the EPA.
Have had issues with trane aluminum coils since about 2016 or so. Not many issues here lately was told by trane tech when we statted noticing a pattern that leaks were being caused by flux getting stuck in the weld ring and dissolving away and blowing out over a couple heating/cooling seasons. Absolute pain. Not an isolated issue. We were, and still are, going back on what seemed like 1 out of every 3-4 installs becuase of leaking coils. Repaired a few with al822 rod in a pinch but stopped repairing after several would start to leak again from a different spot. Always at the solder joint. If you choose to braze, make sure you clean with a stainless wire wheel or brush. Cleanliness and the right heat are crucial for a good weld on aluminum.
Good job Ted! Not why that isn't a permanent fix, but it's your job. The real fix would be to install a Goodman coil. 😂
Big Blue works better when set to "stream" and if you spray slower.
If the leak is really big the nitrogen will blow the solution off the hole without making bubbles.
I've found this also. If you can hear the leak lower your test pressure. You will have more success.
after years on the trade, the best repair to me would be to replace the coil. however one thing you could have done was to hook the vacuum while trying to repair the coil and let mother nature give you a helping hand . good video
You inspired me to diagnose, and potentially repair, a suspected leaking coiling sitting in my basement. Regards, Philip.
No one is going to mention that Mangusta in the back?... very rare nice collection Ted
It is the last one. Car 284 of 284 !! Drives like new.
Even as car nut, I had to look up what it was. I do remember the de Tomaso Mangusta, but never heard of the Qvale.
That Lucas Milhaupt AL822 is the best I’ve found. I’ve only tried 2 though the Solder weld and the Lucas Milhaupt. I liked the way the AL 822 flowed and I’m confident to make repairs with it. I saw that stack of hundreds on top of that Trane condenser, you must’ve had a good week!
Lucas Milhaupt AL822 repaired my trane aluminum to copper leak at a spine fin header. Two local hvac outfits that advertise "repair, dont replace!" both declined to repair. I bought everything, taught myself in a few hours and got it fixed. Still working three years later.
Good job I just watched the the video from your buddy my hvac life where he did the comparison between solder weld and Al 222 and al222 to me was clearly the winner.
As you did not need to flow nitrogen through the pipes and looked neater and cleaner.
Ohh and Ted what the hell is up with that awful looking screw hose clamp on a copper pipe that is not meant to be used on that. Period you can use it for a fual line repair on a car. And for car coolant hoses if done corectly but for residential hvac or Comercial hvac I have never seen that.
Whats next is the next big hvac lazy man trick going to be use big gap foam in a can from Lowes to try and repair a copper pipe leak.
I am not saying that's you but that's the kind of stuff when I see that, that makes me mad.
Other wise great job and thanks to people like you who actually test things to see if it works or not
It makes the world a better place. .
As always Great video,I have use a old bore brush from a gun cleaning kit in my drill to clean a tight area and it seemed to work very well for me.
I’ve used what Charles used on some refrigeration evaporators and worked fine
I don't know if I like the way that stuff flowed. I've only tried to Solder Weld, it sticks and works, I kind of like the way the flux is put on separately so that you can flex the area completely where you wanted to stick at. With this stuff from uni weld it looks like you've got a kind of smeared all over to get the flux spread out. The hard thing to learn to do with solder weld was hold the heat and the rod in place at the same time versus heating your base metal up then applying the rod. That's so against everything we've ever learned. But that's how the solder weld for aluminum works. PS Lora said we got us a spitter😅😅
you 2 allowed to talk to Ted like that ?
LOL.... I have nothing but respect for those 2.... they are awesome !!
I did an aluminum patch on a condenser 3 years ago. Still holding strong. The product I used didn’t do as well. I had to pull just a little vacuum on it to get it to pull in and hold. It was about 6 months out of warranty. I had an evap coil that had a bad joint like this one. Only had been in 4 months.
You couldn’t have said truer words about the EPA 💯. Another government many maker. Good repair on the leak! I have done successful repairs on aluminum piping before that’s still holding. The trick is to regulate the heat for me anyway
Met you at sc air about 6 months ago. Literally just had to do that to a 2 month old Lennox condenser coil. Aluminum coil
I really do appreciate you sharing., Sir. i'm not a HVAC Tech. But learning. Really do enjoy and learn from your channel. Thank you.
I would recommend using big blue streaming instead of spraying. The micro bubbles will show up almost immediately. Just a suggestion! Love your channel!
Coils like this should be pressure rated so customers know what they are buying. The evaporator is on the low pressure side but if for some reason the pressure is higher than it should be due to a faulty metering valve, overheating or some other reason it will fail if built only to withstand normal working pressures. They should be built to handle the high pressure load which would mean they might cost a little more but as a homeowner I would be willing to pay it.
Interesting test repair Ted thank you for sharing this. Is that stack of green paper on that new condenser a promotion from Trane? Also I love “visiting” your shop, always lots of cool stuff to see. …we agree completely on the other subject you discussed. 🇺🇸
Try flowing nitrogen while cleaning around hole to avoid something faling into hole..
Some of the American Standard/Trane replacement TXVs come with a worm gear clamp. Some come with the clip. I always keep the clips off old coils so I have some for each diameter suction line and bulb size.
Great tip!
Love the video!
Might try a Dremel tool with their small wire wheel brushes to clean up the joint before soldering. Aluminum re-oxidizes quickly so you have to get on it quickly after cleaning.
when you saw the demonstration was the guy brazing to beer cans together without a leak? I was at a boat show one time and saw that.
Good presentation, Ted. Worst part is cleaning.
You have to use dental drills, and then dental glue. I’ve always had good luck on aluminum coils and meat cases with Apoxsee.
Something I need to practice. Thanks
Nice job. Guessing that's about 10k resting on top that condenser unit @29:31 .lol. Payday!
That must have been poor quality control when that coil was constructed to fail after just four years. I know there is expansion and contraction and pressure going on but to see something fail that doesn't have any moving parts drives me crazy. Are these built by hand or an automated process?
I know, I had an aluminum coil fail within an year. It had pin hole leaks in it.
i wonder if putting it under a vacuum would counter the hot air blowing your soldier away? 🤔
What the heck?? The formation of that hole is interesting, as it looks like it’s always been there. The million dollar question is why did it last so long. That’s just weird and you’re right!
It opened back up when you pulled the torch away at about 17:52.
i had the best luck with a stainless brush on a dremel or drill and acetone to clean with, sometimes you can pre heat then spray it with alcohol then finish heating the base material, AL822 worked best for me as well
👍Good job. “Slow-Leaks” … I’ve worked with a many of them ol boys! 🤣🤣🤣
I did do a pressure test and check, just started signing off and then doubled back. 30:26 of the video czcams.com/video/XWbqrcCqlqg/video.html May be another video other than the one you saw. Was testing leak detectors and doing a repair.
I have found a few new coils with that type of clamp on them. Not many but I have seen them that way from the factory.
I couldn’t find your Lucas AL822 aluminum rod video. Do you have one? How did it go with those? Are they good?
If the hole is big, lower pressure nitrogen works better to make bubbles.
It appeared to me that there was some residual pressure that initially blew the flux back out.
Ted the GOAT
Ted, i wanna see some drag car footage
I wonder what would happen if you use a brazening torch would work?
We've had a couple of Trane coils with that almost exact failure. I'm guessing it is sealed well enough to pass the factory check and then fails pretty quickly afterward
Manufacturers should be required to warranty those coils longer or simply built them better, which is probably the lessor cost in the long run. There just is no darn way I would spend much on a system that has inferior design and workmanship from the maker. These new systems should last no less than the previous systems of the 1990's !
Why is it temporary?
Could you do a demo video on cleaning a coil like that ? How do you access the underside of the a coil?
It looked like you needed to get the base metal a little hotter.
The Galvanic reaction between the copper tubing and the steel clamp indicates the factory did not put a hose clamp on there.
I see no one mentioned the stack of $100’s on top of the condenser next to the big blue!😂😂👀💵
Your buddy Richard Nixon started the EPA. :-)
The tube directly below your repair looks as though it too has been repaired. Perhaps when the hose clamp was applied?
Mr. Ted Cook you forgot to submerge it in a big pool of water 💦 👍
U got a nice fillet on it
hey ted I know it is holding at that low pressure but that is a 410a coil and with a season it will easily hit 500 psi. check at that pressure for a day or two and see if that holds? just for S and giggles.
I liked that
T C , that was ''snot'' a bad brazing job at all That seem like a good product ... Thx
I pray I don't have a whole bunch of these
WHAT MAKES YOU DISTRUST IT AS A LONG-TERM SOLUTION ????? HOW CAN YOU PREVENT IT FROM GOING INTO HOLE& INTO SYSTEM, SLIGHT PRESSURE? ??
Seems can probably do low long flame on oxy-ace torch and probably be ok but I've not brazed aluminum or really its not brazing but soldering. Soldering is lower temp
Next day new company shirt.
If these manufacturers had to pay for the refrigerant I bet they'd figure it out pretty quick. I've had both evap and condensers replaced and two compressors in 8 years. Sure, they replace the part under warranty but the labor and gas is ridiculous. Will we ever go back to making quality again?
Thin walled metal to save costs and increase profits seems to be the norm. Built to fail after warranty runs out. They can make them like they once did. Same as everything else made these days (a conspiracy to screw the consumer).
This right here 😏
Yes they can make quality again but consumers don’t want to pay the price. Build coils in USA using quality products and quality control, which requires paying employees $35 plus an hour plus benefits. It would add $500 or so more dollars to cost of equipment. Consumers want the cheapest price with a name brad badge on their equipment. I do HVAC and have lost jobs of being $200 over the cheapest bidder. The cheapest bidder cuts corners (leaving old line sets, no nitrogen flow, leaving old pad and disconnect). It’s all about $$$$$.
@@joeburner7120 Seeing that I've spent almost 10k on top of the original installation over the last 8 years, I'd gladly kick out an extra grand for the equipment if it ran problem free for 15-20 years without any major problems (besides stuff like contactors and capacitors).
man you got that straight!!!
So many american standard coils i've replaced with leaks at the solder connections on the U bends. When they leak they leak bad.
A fitting brush does wonders
Are systems with 410 prone to more leaks than 22? Due to higher pressures? Why won’t manufacturers fix this on going problem?
Exact same leak on a goodman i have
Small wire brush on a drumel ted
Those big leaks just blow the bubble solution away. What about using a little aluminum wheel cleaner to etch the area, then brake clean and you alumafix rod of choice?
Only time I'd even think about doing that is if someone accidentally put a screw through it.
Maybe the test pressure he used blew out the plug?
That was Definitely a Leaka Momma.
Was this evaporator replaced under warranty? It's only 4 years old for crying out loud..
yes it was this was said in the video
Try JB weld. The area already looks roughed up for adhesion.
TED show us the cars mopar charger and trans am wow nice...:-)
I don’t think I saw a trans am. I see a black Qvale Mangusta. Which is weird because you don’t see a lot of those.
Yes and it is car #284 of only 284 built !! The last one.
Nice bike. Beezer?
I wonder if you could get a warranty on that. As that is definitely Without speculation a manufacturing defect.
First! haha. Great video as always Ted!
They use clamps 💯
Lucas started after he the owner sold Harris. The only product I hate is their 5%. He must forgotten the Harris recipe. I bet if you used a designated flux as you heated that, and not relied on the "flux core" you would have filled that hole the first time. Just like a water line when you get a little something in the joint, heated it and flux it.
I'd want a whole new coil, shouldn't it be warrantied anyway? Clearly a widespread manufacturing issue, not going to be the last leak on that coil.
Ted , what about using a soldier flux on that job?
And there’s the money shot! 09:50 😉
Imo I don't like aluminum coils and rather have copper ones. I guess I'm use to old school but seems they are too brittle to leaking. Well we will see how this goes Ted you may change my mind.
LOOKED LIKE YOU HAD PRESSURE IN COIL KEEPING HOLE OPEN...
It's not so easy when that leaks in an engine bay. And not sitting on a bench. I put a whole new AC system in and had trouble finding a leak with smoke with dye it didn't matter You couldn't hear it but it sure wouldn't pull it vacuum.
Is that a thunderbolt
Rocket 3
1 out of 3 or 4 going back in 6 months or less is taking it's toll on small business. To use aluminum there needs to be heavy wall tube ! All of this to get 1 point of efficiency = EPA focus is to stop leaks and venting? Now with these unrealistic efficiency mandates ? Definitely leaking a lot more refrigent because of the crap aluminum coils ? Carrier had aluminum coils in the late 70s early 80s and stop making units with aluminum because of the chronic problems. Now with the push toward FLAMMABLE refrigent and compression fittings 🤤 will the new leak detection be a torch 🔥 oops.
Why no flux?
It's flux cored all in one.
Its a slag weld
With that many holes, I think it would be better to Recycle that coil, if that is possible.
Put it on a shelf for emergency
Need better soap for leak detection
Nothing is better than Big Blue
So sad to see aluminum when copper is the best
Ok aluminum is chit to repair with. Guess every customer needs to buy a backup coil to save a 2 or 3 week wait.😂😂😂
same shirt🤔
What you did is all it takes, does not need to be pretty! Propaganda, LMAO! That one would be a challenge in the field for sure. I use the MAP torch that has the hose from tank to handle, is a little easier to maneuver in tight spots. The only time I really do these are when the replacement coil is a long way out on order and we want to try to get some cooling in real hot weather or elderly or babies or bad health.
Same here !!
The old blue sucks !
Designed to fail ...