The Beliefs And Goals Of Each Chaos Space Marine Legion. | Warhammer 40K Lore
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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What do the chaos Space Marines of warhammer 40k actually want? What is the point of continuing a war that has gone on for over 10,000 years? Is it something as simple as vengeance? Do they want to see the entire galaxy destroyed? Or in their own dark and twisted way do they believe what they are doing is truly the best path forward for humanity? in this video were going to examine the belief's goals and ambitions of each traitor legion to try to figure out what they are actually fighting for.
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Time Stamps
0:00 Intro
3:32 Word Bearers
9:22 World Eaters
12:25 Alpha Legion
20:24 Thousand Sons
23:10 Death Guard
27:59 Night Lords
32:31 Emperor's Children
38:12 Iron Warriors
40:51 Black Legion / Abaddon
*Warhammer 40,000 is an IP owned by Games Workshop. All assets contained within this video are property of their respective owners. The video is made for educational purposes only and is protected under fair use.
Opinions stated in the video belong solely to Weshammer and Lore forge LLC. and are in no way shape or form reflective of those held by Games Workshop. Weshammer and Lore forge LLC are not associated with Games Workshop. - Zábava
Get 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/weshammer
Can’t believe this scam is still around
Guys, Wes is right. After a quick session with one BetterHelps, Eye of Terror division therapists, I have truly gotten better. I no longer believe in the lies of the Corpse Emperor and have embraced the true Gods! BLESSED BE THE DARK POWERS!!
Loved your video as always your peppy charm speaks to the adhd nerd inside me. Also, haha your segway into todays sponsor was EPIC!
Take care brother
Bro, BETTERHELP?!
I would rather be eviscerated by a bloodthirster than use betterhell.
I wonder, did betterhelp ever improve or change after the controversy wave that spooked about a year or two ago?
"whatever you think the alpha leigion is, you are probably wrong" thats exactly what they want you to think.
The plan is working.
@@ThirdCydonian Good the have still no clue Brother !
But they think that you say that it is what they want you to think, so its what they want you to think so you don't know its the truth which they want you to think its wrong....
@@Mordroth-the-daemonwhisperer Yes.
This is a lie.
Nah, I'm correct. By the 41st, they'd be up-jumped pirates. Maybe with some in-group elitism and an incoherent mythology justifying their pride. Black Library authors took shots at them before and I side with those. They're basically the keyboard warriors of 40K that definitely has over 1000 confirmed kills. Even in 30K this whole "humanity needs to lose so it can win" thing being swallowed uncritically by them made no sense. And even at face value, Guilliman stopped working with them explicitly because they treated conquest as some kind of sick game where they would style needlessly on the enemy at the expense of time and lives. I doubt 10,000 years of decay have made them any better.
I always wonder what the Galaxy would look like if on Lorgar’s Pilgrimage he found Gork and Mork, Cegorach, or a Ctan shard.
"All i ever wanted was more dakka"
A ctan shard would be interesting, ngl. Especially the one of Grim Reaper.
Imagine cegorach converting lorgar to the eldar pantheon right. And then the word bearers start painting their armor like the harlequins
If lorgar discovered gork and mork instead of chaos they would be unstoppable
Limitless faith and limitless dakka
This would've been the WAAAAGH heresy instead
That would justify the legion's color swap after the heresy. Cauz red ones go fasta!
Alpha Legion: “The Imperium can’t predict/counter our plans if even WE don’t know them! >:3 “
*Jeremy Clarkson voice* Sometimes my Genius is....it's almost frightening
shit, thats the entire U.S. military strategy
"To confuse your enemy, first confuse yourself" Sun Tzu
@@voidstorm6225 A certain Swedish band with a muscular lead singer with a mohawk and a steel-plated shirt needs to make a song about that.
@@Didymus20X6 it wouldn't suprise me at all if Joakim already has something planned.
Crusade Era Alpha legion: we know exactly what we are doing.
Heresy Era Alpha legion: Do we know what we are doing?
Modern Era Alpha legion: OK WTF are we even doing?
They know exactly what they're doing: fighting the Imperium. They just don't know why.
World eaters: FOR THE SKULLS!!
Thousand sons: FOR THE KNOWLEDGE!!
Iron warriors & Black legion: FOR VENGEANCE!!
Word bearers: FOR THE DARK GODS!!
Death guard: FOR THE PLAUGES!!
Night lords: FOR THE MONEY!!
Emperor's children: FOR THE HOES!!
Alpha Legion: FOR WHAT, EXACTLY?
@@bradsievers3541 damn thats a good one
Sons of Malice: FOR THE RENEGADE GOD!!
Black legion: FOR THE WARMASTER!
Red Corsairs : FOR FUN AND PLUNDER ALSO RETRIBUTION Arrrrrrrggg
I think you nailed the Word Bearer's mentality. They trully believe Chaos is the primordial truth of the universe. If the truth is devastating for humanity, well that's a pity, but it is what it is. Truth is beyond mortal views on morality, their personal wishes for a better way or the survival of a species that was forcefully unified by lies.
The word bearers are chaos Jehovas witnesses
Bro made me respect the Word Bearers’ opinions, get this man a cookie. Naw seriously, couldn’t have said it better than you or Weshammer for that matter
It also makes it sound a lot like believing in a "natural order of things", which sounds very un-chaotic.
@@AvB.83Though it's twisted because Chaos in itself is completely unnatural and not supposed to exist in the first place. It's a corrupted and evil version of what the Warp is actually supposed to be. Lorgar once again drowning in his own ignorance and hubris.
The WBs are accurate just the truth of 40k’s setting is a diseased reflection of what it is supposed to be and originally was (along with what one day may be again) they’re just really, really late to the deeper truth. If anything, Lorgar’s boys found the *partial* truth of the setting and settled there thinking they have figured it out. The sickest part is that the partial truth is more than happy to encourage this ignorance and reward them with ‘gifts’ and ‘blessings’ when there is so much more that even the partial truths can only grasp at, even Tzeentch.
In a way it is a perfect depiction of zealots that settle on a truth that sits right enough rather than *the* Truth with a capital T before going to bring pain and misery while missing the whole point. 0.5° error isn’t much at a millimeter but after a kilometer you can be so far off yet think you are in the right place
Alpha Legion has been and still is my favorite heretic legion. Them being the only ones who have been experiencing the war in real time, while the others are dreamily fading in and out of existence just makes them even more relatable.
One of the craziest things about them is the fact we can collect and play ANY Space Marine Chapter and actually say it's Alpha Legion because their marines have chameleon tech.
Shoot. Alpha legion doesn't even sound like a chaos chapter. It just sounds like a rogue chapter that wants to see the empire fall.
They have the lowest chaos taint out of all chaos chapters
Still waiting on what would happen if each faction gets all 40,000 warhammers. Thanks, love the channel :)
They'll have a hammer-war in Warhammer
What if the real warhammer was the friends we made along the way.
@@foxhound5699bruhhh.. almost no one would have a weapon for very long..
You get to sit on the golden throne
@@foxhound5699nothing is more powerful then friendship
The Iron Warriors remind me of the Chaos dwarfs. Demonic forge, bitterness towards those that wronged them, slave economy, and even a comparable way of war.
Now that you point it out, i definetly see it. Despite the different aesthetics, they're remarkably similar in essence and behaviour.
@@geeljire9247 Yeah. HASHUT HASHUT HASHUT!!!!!!
@@TheMilitantMazdakite it's like the chaos dwarves if they chained up Hashut himself and milked him for magma to fuel their forges. The relationship between the IW and chaos is majority exploitative. There was one warpsmith who started binding so many daemons to daemon engines that all four of the gods got pissed at him and swarmed him with armies of all four gods.
Surprisingly he actually lasted about a month.
I love the alpha legions cannon motive is "There is a grand in the works, absolutely no one knows what it is."
The section with the alpha legion honestly got me more interested in them, especially with the fact that compared to every other traitor legion, they've legit lived through the whole 10k years of war, and the speech from the hopeful harrow master legit makes sense, and legit makes me wanna root for them to try and revive humanity through the sense of burning the idea of the imperium to ashes, for sure gonna pick up that book and give it a read.
I liked the old Night Lords. "Chaos is a tool. We use it. We do not bow to it". Judging from the ADB books, it's a motto that took a blow in the legion since some centuries. To the point they have some wannabe daemon princes. When they were so intent on purging mutants amongst their ranks before.
Some? I think Alpha Legion has more named daemon princes than almost all of the other traitor legions.
@@headlibrarian1996you mean night lords?
16:44 i can imagine there being a members rolling their eyes saying: "oh please we know already!"
I like the idea that one of the Alpha Legion Primarchs just controlling things from the sidelines to strengthen the Imperium. Guy could purposely be acrewing his legion, so them thinking they lost whatever goal just makes another level of "don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing!"
I'd argue Iron Warriors' goal is to just get revenge. More than any other legion, they believed they were misused and abused. So they want to make every living being around them feel the same misery and shame as they did and feel justified doing so.
Despite doing most of the legwork in the Horus Heresy they're easily the most intact out of the traitors in terms of numbers and cohesion
As far as I know, the Word Bearers and the Death Guard also remained quite cohesive. If anything, those two didn't have a massive orchestrated civil war. To be fair though, Iron Warriors had rivalries even during the HH days so it only makes sense for them to to split into rival warbands. Still, they're definitely more organised than most when they want to be. I also think the Black Legion is quite well organised for the most part but that's not exactly a fair comparison considering it is formed of multiple warbands from all other traitor legions and that the Sons of Horus died as a faction for it to exist.
Id argue the same for magnus and the thousand sons , however its just a revenge against the space wolves , and they wont rest until they wipe out the chapter clean and beat the living shit out of leman russ when he eventually returns .....after that happens theyd probably work on fixing the rubic marines and whatnot , if it were to ever happen
Alpha Legion continues to be my favorite Space Marine legion period, even with their mysteries being cleared. Respecting anyone with useful knowledge and expertise, the whole council of warbands and the mythos about Alpharius and Omegon, all of those add up to a surprisingly rich faction.
Alpha Legion's problem has long been that Black Library authors don't really know what to do with them lol. Which is a shame, because I've seen so many interesting ideas floated around by fans that would make for stellar storylines and breathe some life into the faction.
Also for those wondering whats with the death guard
Like wes pointed out,the death guard are about entropy and decay,but theres a lot more nuance and depth then that.
The death guard is split more or less between those loyal to mortarion and those loyal to typhus.
Mortarion before chaos was at his core,a good man turned bitter by his grudges
Mortarion was a genuinely good guy even if he was a cold hearted asshat,leading his people to salvation from the overlords of barbarus tyrany.
Believe it or not,morty originally wasnt going to rush in swinging on necare like we saw in his origins.
Before the emporor came alone,morty planned to deal with necare last as he knew damm well even if he could survive,necares mountain was stronger in toxins then even he could take long.
A big thing in mortys philosophy is that he believes if somethings to good to be true,its a lie.
In his point of view,he just got offered a free ticket to safety? Thats sketchy and frankly i give props for being wary.
After getting his buttons pushed in the right way,that was probably i think, his 1st step to dammnation.
Had the emporor save mortarion and let him kill necare? The pale king would never have chosen chaos
A lot of people downplay just how much morty went through in his life pre and post chaos.
Pre chaos, Morty suffered day in and day out,the only solace in his life now being the death guard,typhus and his work.
And when typhus betrayed him,it wasnt a sinple "oh ill join chaos!" Or anything like that.
The original reason why he sided with horus was mostly so he could sate his grudge on the inperium. Literally noone else was on his mind but him.
Post chaos,morty has been twisted by nurgles gifts. Where the old morty would rage and fight aganst the dying of the light,the morty of now is tired. Tired,losing his mind,and his emotions. Yet he still carrys on,fueled by his grudges.
The death guard under Morty stull remember him as the one who delivered them from necares tyrany,and even if this is barely any different,they still would gladly die for him,and morty still holds some care in his undead,fetid heart.
Hell id say of the traitor primarchs,magnus and mortarion are the most rebelious since they dont actively contribute
In the case of magnus, literally half of his own soul fights in the inperiums name from the shadows,while magnus himself only fucks with the wolves and maybe the ocasional world if he absolutely has to.
And mortarion? Not only does he constantly go off nurgles script,he doesnt even like him
The only reason he even bothers with the inperium anymore is mostly because of his grudges
I believe that if Magnus and mortarion rejoined the loyalists,chaos would be well and utterly fucked.
Goddamn, the way he describes World Bearers' beliefs in the begging got me turning into a heretic...
The perspective of Choas being not only an undeniable truth but also an inevitable future of the galaxy is extremely depressing and terrifying, but in some twisted, grotesquely ironic way beautiful and reassuring.
It doesn't matter who you are, what you believe in, what you want and what you think is good for you and universally good by itself, the gods are here, they are showing themselves to you, and that's the only thing that matters, whether you agree or not.
It's as if Vishnu manifested themselves in our world. By that point, regardless of whether you were a Catholic, Muslim or a staunch atheist, you have to believe and give yourself to them, it is all there is and ever will be to your existence...
World Bearers are suddenly starting to become my favorite chapter
I had the opposite reaction. "It's the Truth, so there's no point in resisting it?" Sounds like quitter-talk, resist anyway. Either suffer a worthy death resisting the very universe itself, or achieve a triunphant victory and spit in the eyes of the gods. Both are acceptable outcomes.
This kinda reminds me of the end of dark souls (SPOILERS I guess).
Do you sacrifice yourself to the flame to extend the age of fire a bit longer, in the hope that others will do the same in the future? Or do you accept the inevitability of the darkness and willingly live in it?
Obviously the first would be keep fighting an unwinnable war against chaos like the imperium is doing, and the later would be turning to chaos like the word bearers.
I would say resisting seems like the obvious choice at first, because chaos is horrible and all, but in the end whats the point of resisting the inevitable? Just to extend the suffering of the galaxy?
I love it when chaos is presented as more than "bad guys who want to destroy everything", and the author explores the philosophycal reasons of why someone would side with it.
Based and Wordpilled
My favorite legion is the 20th and I really hope that either Alpharious or Omegon make their triumphant return to reunite their legion and show their new sons their true purpose. Whether that be destory or save the imperium. To shed light on the actions they took during the heresy and too give us the fans and readers of the setting a true insight into their goals and ambitions!!
I AM ALPHARIOUS.
HYDRA DOMINATUS
Yeah. It would be fair to give use some revelations about some things. So many "mistery boxes" are starting to be annoying.
I’ve seen a theory that Alpharius and Omegon switched places, Omegon pretending to be Alpharius gets killed by Dorn, and real Alpharius raised on Terra becomes Cypher
Omegon is dead. Alpharius lives.
...of course, the opposite is also true. And neither.
I am Alpharious.
I guess Decimus would be the only way to unite the Night Lords because he can foresee even THEIR random ass whims and presumably counteract them.
It means so much to me to see you give the Thousand Sons the justice they deserve! They are one of my favorite factions in any fictional setting, and they get way too much crap from people who haven't actually read the books and know most of their 40k lore from memes and internet discussion boards. Too many people just blindly follow the Imperium party line, and I'm so happy to see someone with a more nuanced take.
As far as their goals in the modern 40k setting, the difference between Magnus and his traitor brethren is pretty striking. Compared to Angron and Mortarion, Magnus might as well be leaving the wider Imperium alone. He's just trying to recreate the glories of old Prospero, and create a haven for Psykers, the most persecuted class of people in the Imperium (except maybe mutants).
T-Sons are f'n children! They're the know-it-alls of 40K that know nothing, and act like children when they realize it. Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility, that in no other way is a coward. What's worse is he knows it wasn't the Emperor that released the wolves on Prospero, but it was Horus. Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path of destruction. Sorry, they don't deserve any justice, they need to be sent to stand in the corner and think what they've done.
@@usernamunavailiablei can say similar words about emperor
@@usernamunavailiable Alright, let's take this one item at a time.
"They're like the know-it-alls of 40k that know nothing,"
Riddle me this: which Legion was the only one humble enough to make their Astartes serve on detached detail with other Legions to learn from them? Spoiler: it's the Thousand Sons. There is only one thing that they are "know-it-alls" about, and that's Psychic powers / the Warp.
And they genuinely did/do understand more about that than any other Legion. Their understanding was tragically flawed, but still leagues ahead of anyone else (probably barring the Emperor). Bear in mind, the Imperium still uses their Psychic teachings to this day. The five Psychic disciplines that all Imperial Psykers know of - Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy - were created by Magnus and the Thousand Sons. The Librarius likewise.
"Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility,"
Magnus was willing to sacrifice his homeworld and his Legion to atone for his mistake, TF do you call that if not "taking responsibility"?
"Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path to destruction."
It's like you've never read the Crimson King or Fury of Magnus.
Firstly, the Emperor is not blameless in the Burning of Prospero. He sent the Wolves, the Legion that hated the Thousand Sons more than anyone. Malcador even admits that they - he and the Emperor - bear responsibility for what happened to the Thousand Sons.
Secondly, Magnus sided with Horus because it was his only option. He'd already been declared an enemy of the Imperium, and that was not a war in which you could remain neutral. With Horus, you were either with him or against him, and the Thousand Sons could not fight both the Imperium and the Warmaster at the same time.
Lastly, Magnus only fell to Tzeentch after the Emperor offered him redemption but at the price of his sons. Even Vulkan admitted that he wouldn't have taken that deal.
@@usernamunavailiablePoint and laugh at the cultural tourist that doesn't actually know the world they're piping in on
@@usernamunavailiable
Imperium fan: detected
Opinion: Irrelevant
Absolutely loved your promotion for Darktide being put on the Gamepass and especially all you’ve done to get WH40k into the mainstream.
WH40k always was pretty mainstream lol
@@somekindofdude1130definitely not lol
Most people have no clue wtf 40k is@@somekindofdude1130
Word bearers: Spread peace and love of the Big M.
The Big M: Damn sons thats not the way of grimdark.
Gotta love this villian arc
@WesHammer which chaos legion is your favorite? I find the thousand suns terrifying and yet also awe-inspiring
Thousand Sons*
Reminder that better help is a scam
They're just a new Chaos Legion
Why are they a scam I see ads for them all over
Yeah you're probably right but what proof do you have of that?
Most are not even therapists. You are just paying to chat
I'm not a therapist but I'm pretty good at helping people. Free of charge.
I love playing as the Chaos factions in Dawn Of War Soulstorm (especially with the Unification mod) while playing "We're not gonna take it" by Twisted Sister in the background. honestly, nothing's better than when the guitar riff is roaring at the moment you summon in a bloodthirster to just wreak absolute havoc amongst the battlefield and crush dark elder skulls.
The points you bring up for the Alpha Legion, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are really good! There's a collection of Primarch Short Stories "Blood of the Emperor" highlight how the Primarchs viewed their legions, and a lot of the exemplifies what becomes of those legions
Dude I love this kind of content. Warhammer lore is a struggle to get through at times and breaking it down like this has made me interested in some factions I usually wouldn’t give a second look. Like the Word Bearers who I honestly still don’t know a lot about but maybe I will soon.
The new Alpha Legion book is obviously Alpha Legion propaganda.
Sounds like something the alpha legion would say to throw us off the scent.
Never played a 40k game, but the lore is pretty fascinating. Some good sci fi
Wes, I'd be super interested in a video about times the Eldar (and other factions) came to the aid of the Imperium. There's a lot of fragmented lore around, but there's really nothing dedicated to 'those times the Imperium recieved aid from non-humans, and why'.
Could that be a topic?
Is there any lore about whether the Chaos gods extend beyond the Milky Way? If so, do they know the true extent/origin of the Tyranids?
My theory is a flood type scenario where the Tyranids are actually the old ones
It would be kind of amusing if the warp actually corresponded to the whole universe. Maybe part of the game could reflect things going on elsewhere that we have no concept of.
And maybe a majority of the ships lost in the warp actually popped out in another galaxy....maybe to start new imperiums
The chaos gods are extra dimensional, as they are the same "individuals" as the chaos gods of Fantasy/Age of Sigmar.
@@blackc1479if it did there could be "Dead Space" in between. The Realm Of Chaos after the war in heaven basically grew Chaos Over pretty much all of the Milky Way but it does not extend beyond as there is a Literal Sea beyond... And they cannot leave their Island because of the tyranids Shadow walling them in
The warp doesn't overlap with the material world in the sense that the question implies.
The butchers surgeons don't use sorcery... if they did they'd die pretty quickly as they lost their heads for using forbidden sorcery!
I do love this video, gives an excellent framing for each of the legions!
I'll admit it's not super clear. It says it's derived from methods used during the horus heresy, and when you go to the horus heresy black books to read about it, it says that sorcery was used. But during the great crusade the world eaters definitely had psychers. It would take agron becoming a demon before all of their psychers were wiped out. So when you read the new world eaters codex, it doesn't clarify if they are the ones using the sorcery or it's their dark mechanicum allies. My thought would be the latter.
Buuuuut despite korn legions denail of sorcery at the end of the day they are still part of chaos and hence still are made of the essencse of the warp wish by its nature its still all “magical”. After all they still use abnormal anomolys effect in combat wether it be abnormal pysical possible resistance boost, strength boost, “magic” canons n swords n mounts weaponry, just plain fire breathing, being resistence to some magic stuff or just straight one use portals to get to the heart of battle. They still are part of the warp and hence still use its “magic” to some extent just that they use it only in a need to need basic requirements and the least amount has possible in comparasion to other chaos forces. They still use sorcery just they do it has least has possible and on a need to need neccecity bases.
In the old Liber Chaotica and Slaves to Darkness it said how to do Khorne summonings and rites it's less sorcery and more like them channelling violence. For summonings they'll find battle sites, and then they'll just provoke acts of violence in that area to keep thinning the veil until it rips.
The Butcher surgeons likely use gene manipulation combined with daemonic ick to do anything to speed the process up. Khrone himself see's sorcery and psykers as a debasement of martial honour and prowess, it's one of the reasons Tzeentch often ranks highly on his hit list behind Slaanesh and it was the reason for the brass collars being considered one of the highest blessings..
But like everything the Chaos gods are fickle and infinite!
@@weshammer
I would say the word bearers are the most zealous of all of them and the world eaters were just trying to match the wavelength of the unstable sire, but the Alpha legion, is that even a thing? And I love the background melody and how you describe things, thank you weshammer for making us love WH40K
If only Big E could have been a bit more kind to his sons most probably would not have turned although the one who becomes warmaster was destined to fall.
The Alpha Legion’s tolerance of aliens is refreshing
Honestly, the Traitor's reasons for falling to Chaos aren't all great, but it's their beliefs and goals which actually gives Chaos some flavour. ;)
Plus, didn't Abaddon treat Talos and his First Claw like crap just because they wouldn't bow? ;/
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that their reasons for falling to Chaos aren’t all that great. To me, they make perfect sense and I can understand 110% why someone would fall to chaos in the warhammer universe. Hell, I can see how someone could lose their mind in THIS world and hurt others in all sorts of different ways (going from the legal to illegal.)
@@SalviHippo Okay, I'm gonna list their characters' reasons for falling, all in Legion Order. And then I'll get into why I think there's a problem with those. Let's go:
3rd Legion:
- Fulgrim got possessed by a Demon, then he managed to regain control of his body, and he fully went Slaaneshi-drugs because... because.
- Eidolon and Lucius were just little shits.
- Fabius didn't really go Chaos.
4th Legion:
- Perty didn't turn to Chaos so much as rebel against the Big E. But his ascension to Daemon Prince was a massive waste imo. He could've made for a good counterpart to Guilliman. :/
8th Legion: Not Chaos so much as renegade.
12th Legion: Angron was a douchebag. He had his reasons though. The World Eaters were dragged into Khorne by force.
14th Legion: Oh boy, here we go!
- Mortarion got dragged into Nurgle against his will and turned into a Daemon Prince. But then he accepted his new status and transformed his world into a replica of Barbarus, becoming everything he claimed to hate... while still preaching hatred for the witch. Like a hypocrit. Like father, like son I guess. :/
- Typhus is a dickhead and went full Chaos.
15h Legion:
- Magnus did everything wrong and got played.
- Ahriman also got played and thinks he's free, but he's not.
16th Legion:
- Horus fell because he saw a vision of the future, that he chose to believe was the only future because reasons? I get it, and it works on paper. But I really struggle to think as to what exactly went through his head to convince him to go full genocide.
- Abaddon and most of the Sons of Horus went with it because Daddy Horus knows best. Then Abby grew desillusioned and went on to make the exact same failures than Horus as Warmaster when it comes to Chaos. But with more hypocrisy, since he claims to be his own master.
- Iskandar Khayon went like: "Fuck Magnus and my Legion, I'm joining with a true brothrhood."
17th Legion:
- Erebus was a Chaos worshipper from the beginning. Same with Kor Phaeron.
- Lorgar got raised by Kor Phaeron, then got his city razed by the Big E., and then got into a pilgrimage.
- Argel Tal followed because he truly believed in Chaos being a boon for humanity. He was the best Chaos character imo, but he got shanked and died.
XXth Legion: Not Chaos. Maybe. Perhaps.
So, as to my actual problem with these. Sure if you get the full picture, most of these stories are somewhat deep. But if you only take the main, official, most-read sources, the fall of certain Primarchs like Perturabo or Fulgrim does look quite shallow. And some flipflop between deep nuanced characters and cartoonish villains between books. You have to truly dig into side-materials to get a better idea of it. (This is a writing quirk of 40k , but also a source of problems in its narrative for many including me.) And even then, it feels like the authors made certain Primarchs fall like that because the plot demanded it - Fulgrim and Mortarion especially.
That being said, this isn't my main problem with Chaos in 40k. (That would be how Chaos is portrayed most of the time in 40k.) But it's one that does make the Heresy a tad less good for me. :/
@Archon3960 Horus being freed of corruption by Leman and still thinking after all that he destroyed that he somehow was right was so weird. How was Horus,the one who was so close and cozy with the Emperor see a vision and witness how absolutely evil they are and think "The demons are gone but they're still better than dad because.....well because." Horus was literally the only one with the fewest reasons to hate the Emperor. He was the most spoiled and had the most clout. Give his soul to Chaos for what?
He's already immortal,has endless power over every Primarch and their legion,his brothers love him,yet he gets shanked and shown a vision and suddenly not even Magnus can tell him that this insane demonic dream he's having is a lie because.....because. 🎉
Thousand son had an actual, "GOOD", reason for falling to Chaos.
Would be nice to get a deep-dive into the Blood Ravens lore. Love their thieving shenanigans.
Honestly I might have missed something in my own readings of the Alpha Legion books, but from what I recall there are a few points that I feel should be brought up for context. Firstly, there are marines from the heresy still alive, just not as many. In Shroud of Night the main cast are Alpha Legionaries from the heresy that got trapped on a daemon world, and are still alive ot this day, so while most of the Alpha Legion stayed out of the Eye of Terror it does seem like some did enter it, even if it wasn't the majority. In Harrowmaster they even comment on how if this warband 'The Unsung' had turned up to the conclave, it would have caused quite a stir. Regarding Harrowmaster, it wasn't a gathering of all the Alpha Legion, just the cells in Ultima Segmentum that they could get in touch with who deigned to show up. Granted Ultima Segmentum is the largest Segmentum in the Imperium in terms of inhabited worlds so I wouldn't be surprised if this was the majority of the Alpha Legion, but technically it wasn't all of them that were called.
Good to know! I haven't read that book. I will have to check it out
@@weshammer Great read, would definitely recommend!
@@agentmaine4746any book where a legionnaire tries to leg-sweep Kharn while yelling " I am Alpharius, and I am your death!" while screaming internally is guaranteed to be a hit.
Another thing people miss regarding the thousand sons,the reason there fucked over isnt because there corrupted.
Post rubric of arhiman,the survivors of the thousand sons were made immune to chaos,bar the collection of shards making up chaos magnus.
The reason why there stuck with chaos is twofold
The biggest reason being that despite the immunitys to corruption,tzeench has made a claim on Magnus' and by extension every thousand sons soul despite the thousand sons genes and magnus himself were made by the emporor. Not only that,the other part of this reason is that tzeench has his direct focus on them,and had it since 10 milenia. If anything no matter what,the thousand sons were fucked if the emporor was constantly near them or at least fucked up tzeench.
The 2nd reason being the fact they literally have nowhere else to go.
During the heresy when leman went feral on the thousand sons,they literally sought asylum with horus and the traitors because of the burning of prospero,to which horus allowed,if only because chaos horus needed any help he could get. And you know what the thousand sons did?
One thousand son joined in saving ULTRAMAR. Another thousand sons,arvida BECAME A GREY KNIGHT.
And to top that off, Magnus' in his madness still put himself together enough to send the photep to play mvp to help sharrowkyn and friends.
Even on the traitor side,the majority of thousand sons did absolute fuck all to contribute,with magnus almost becoming a full loyalist,which had that happen, would have rapidly fucked horus up in the worst way possible.
And on top of that pre daemon shard of magnus was stable enough to help a not fully acended mortarion,making his newfound pain bearable enough to fight. And he saved loyalist civilians. What traitor would do ANY OF THIS. For the inperium even?
Hell in the modern time,the 40k thousand sons apart from getting payback on the wolves,the ones who razed prospero being long dead be dammed,a lot of the legion bar arhimans warband and other small cabals literally helped magnus retake prospero,and create a small empire,which arguably is more nicer and able to train psykers then the inperiums rampant hypocrisy about them.
Let this sink in. Despite everything theyve done,most of the thousand sons,and a great many 30k night lords were possibly one of the least truely evil of the traitors.
Unfortunately its all part of Big Blues plan 😕
It's pretty well ironed out in lore for anyone reading the books that Magnus was forced to join chaos
@@mikekillian6154 and not only that,magnus could care less about chaos,same as abbadon
Hell abbadon despite the memes actually is fairly competent,the only reason hes struggling so hard is his old lore sucks compared to new,and gw eliminating a lot of nuance that goes into each chaos marine
@@lolbots686 tbh I've always found it weird a space marine vs one of the fallen primarchs is the main antagonist
I just want a Traitor Legion to actually be smart for once, I think that's why I and many others want the Alpha Legions Primarch to have some sort of grand plan wither to be truly a traitor or not it would be interesting.
If they were smart, they wouldn't be a Traitor Legion.
While I not always agree with Wes's videos and lore explanations, this one is bang on. As a huge chaos fan I am super happy about the depiction of the Word Bearers and Night lords specifically. Love your content man
This was incredibly poignant and absolutely brilliant! You really highlighted the layers and depth to chaos and the different philosophies each legion stands by! They are by far one of the most interesting factions, like them or not, in not just 40k, but in fantasy/scifi fiction as a whole. I've never seen them being shown the respect and objective fascination that they deserve more than your channel achieves. You are by far, not only one of the best 40k youtubers, but one of the most passionate, unbiased, and effective lore channels on the platform. Well done! You truly embodied why I love chaos so much!
I've always been a bit confused about the Iron Warriors. Back in 3rd ed, they hated daemons and couldn't field them with minor exceptions. Now they're built all around machines infused with daemons. I don't know what suits them best, or whether to lean into it being yet another schism.
Daemon engines are bound and lack autonomy compared to many regular daemons, so I suspect they feel the greater control acceptable
Goodness me! “Rage is the highest form of sentience”. Gosh! But they do make their evil acts sounds incredible sensible. Expansion then decay, following true gods etc.
I find this take on Chaos intriguing and I’d like to sign up for their newsletter.
And you know, I’ve always rather liked hooping and hollering.
Yes the more I think about it the more I really think this might be just the ticket for me.
“Hail Slanesh!” Indeed, eh?
Sounds like a fine old jape!
According to the Novell “The Talon of Horus“, the Alpha Legion were/are in the eye. Abaddon himself states this, when he argues with Iskandar Khayon.
Maybe only some of them went into the eye
always appreciate how structured and time stamped videos are!
Wait, does this mean the WE could clone Angron and get a father who actually has a bit of love? Kinda like Bile and Clonegrim?
That would be a cool idea. A not-mad, non-daemon and non-Butcher Nails Angron sounds like the ideal Primarch for the World Eaters.
You've made my week Wez with this video! Keep doing what you do!
I absolutely love how this open with the question of “what do they want?”
Thank you for the deep dig, Wes!!!
Appreciate the work you put into this!!
Perspectives!!
Cheers!!
I've just recently listened to Conrad's primarch novel and you were right it's just a straight up horror novel but it's so good
I love how he's telling the story but it goes from present to past and all the while your shown how unhinged he is
"Harrowmaster" only cover a little of the active Alpha Legion. Kassar from the "Shroud of Night" fought during the heresy
Necron supremacy
your supports does not affect anything human.
Na u can use our body zarech
'da boyz gunna smash 'da stupid shiny robotz, simple az.
Tyranids ftw
Yo where my necrophiles at
That Segway into the betterhelp commercial was so smooth I had to comment. I actually listened to the whole commercial. Your sponsors have chosen wisely, and you are worth whatever you ask.
ove them or hate them, you must however admit that the alpha Legion has some Savage drip! Their armor with its designs and the gilding and the dragon scales & the crests? omigod and just that sea-green with the silver? So badass!
Loving the content lately 😮💨 keep it up 🤙🏻
Hydra Dominatus brother!
just wanted to throw in my 2c that I just started watching your content yesterday and its really good, I'm enjoying it. I came here from majorkill actually who I also enjoy watching, but he mentioned you in a positive way many times so I figured I would see what its all about and yeah, really enjoying your two different styles to telling stories from the lore.
I absolutely love your chaos apologist videos like this one. Finding the good and justifiable in the bad and irredeemable makes my brain do a happy 😊
Oh my well this is a wonderful surprise to have on a good night and such a unique topic love the work Wes keep up the great work
Wes I’ve been laying face down in my bed suffering from nurgles rot. This video is the first thing I’ve watched. Thank you! I feel the emperor’s light
Hope you feel better
@@weshammer thank you Wes!
This is the best video you have created so far!
Hat's off to you.
that was the smoothest ad transition for truly troubled traitors love the vids :D
Thank you for this insightful video s. Love your mix of knowledge, personal vision and your obvious love for the 40k setting! Every video you make is just quality.
I am a fantasy guy myself. But due to listening to your channel, getting to know more and more about 40k and its universe. I finally started my first 40k army; The World Eaters!!! My new, and first 40k, project ❤❤❤
Like it when wes uploads another vid. So damn entertaining!
Another excellent video, Wes!
Decimus’ story is still canon. In the 8th Ed Chaos codex, it’s mentioned that the unified Night Lords are going after Ulthwe.
Love The way the Enperoers children look. They may do some evil stuff but in the 40k universe who doesn't lol. I hope fulgrim can return soon so I can begin collecting them for 40k
Hell yeah new heretical video!
Also that sponsor mention and transition was smooth
this recap of the nine was amazing. thank you Wes.❤❤❤
Fantastic video Wes!
No one expects the Alpharius Alpha Legion!
Their chief weapon is that no one knows what their chief weapon is.
I wonder what the word bearers would do once the emperor reaches apotheosis and becomes yet another god
17:06 Solomon went Thug Life on the clones
8:32 The irony that in a way the Word Bearers are the most lawful of legions, they simply follow not the Emperor's law, but what they perceive to be a natural law. They bind themselves to and force upon others an undefiable hierarchy, if gods exist they are above mortals and so must be worshiped. Is that more an artifice of law than one who says "yes something that could be called a 'god' exists, but they are evil and undeserving of worship." The Emperor, who sees those beings and willfully denies them is in many ways more chaotic (small c) than the Word Bearers themselves.
Really?? You of all people sponsoring that company saddens me. A lot has come to light about them not actually being as good as they portray themselves :/
That being said, this video is awesomely thorough and your effort definitely shows
Eh, I agree. Better Help is scammy trash. But I'm all for Wes taking their money and spending it on something good aka Warhammer 40k Lore videos.
Ngl has there been any YT sponsors that are ever legit?
can you make a similar video but with factions like the Red Corsair?
Yes absolutely.
@@weshammeryes!
The last one was suprise. But, awesome work, thank You Wes and never stop :)
Good video premise! Let it not be said that your channel is flatlining! Good lad.
Can Weshammer review the TTS series by Bruva Alfabusa?
How can anyone review the perfect one true canon of 40K?
Ahh alpha legion, closeted loyalist
usually i see these months after theyre posted but i want to let you know that this shit is dope as hell and you got someone else into it
I love the art of the Death Guard writing stuff down. He even has his own abacus.
Correction: the Emperor didn't burn Monarchia to the ground because Lorgar & his Word Bearers didn't ''meet their quota of compliance".
He did it, because Logar & the Word Bearers worshipped him as a god & were actively converting the populations of the planets they conquered into this religion.
Remember, the Emperor had outlawed every type of organized religion in his Imperium, because he feared that religious believes are fueling the Chaos Gods.
He actually gave Lorgar a couple of warnings, that if he doesn't stop the whole worshipping/ proselytizing -thing, there would be severe consequences.
Lorgar didn't pay any attention to this, so Big E decided to do something drastic, have Monarchia wiped out and the Word Bearers humiliated.
Ironically, the whole thing backfired spectacularly and pushed Lorgar & the Word Bearers into the arms of Chaos.
Although it's true, the emperor pretty explicitly did not want to be worshiped he allowed lorgar and the word bearers to do it and did not outright condem it until it began to interfere with their effectiveness. This is one of the main things that pushed lorgar over the edge and why he felt so betrayed by him. It wasn't like the emperor was constantly telling him not to do it over and over and then suddenly snapped. If it kept them in line and kept them doing exactly what he wanted, he stayed quiet on it. I'm pretty sure this was covered in first heretic
Who wants to rock out with the cool masks and the shovels? 👺
You son of a bitch
Count me in
Your transition from tik toks to long form content was truly a pleasure to behold.
BetterHelp as a sponsor for a Chaos beliefs video is chef's kiss!
Just picturing Angron signing in for a session. 😂
I think the word bearers are extremely immature and lacking in depth because they basically settled on the first thing they found and excused themselves of all wrong doing. Even Lorgar was given a vision of the future from Kairos that could have been fake and it was the events of Know No Fear where Guilliman stated that he never hated Lorgar and wanted the best for his brother. I think Lorgar was so committed to his bitterness and victim mindset that he rejected this vision as being false because he wanted so badly to be a victim that when Chaos revealed itself to him as this horrible thing it validated his viewpoint that he feels like shit because the universe is a shit place to live and now he has an excuse to make everyone else's lives as miserable as his so he can say I told you so. Then when the events of Know no Fear happen and Guilliman repeats the vision Lorgar goes oh well im too far gone now. I think what the Word Bearer's represent is childishness and throwing a temper tantrum on a scale that is religious in fervor so that it serves as a lie to themselves as to their own internal behaviour and ultimate motivations. The Word Bearers are essentially adult children throwing a temper tantrum because the Emperor told them no and they decided to double down on their stupidity. The Word Bearers' psychology remind me of a collection of 3 world religions that start with the letter A and that how good intentions can become very very dark when the human ego runs amok. I mean our truth is the one truth kill everyone who disagrees with us! Humanity has been fighting that idea for over 2000 years. Ultimately I think the truest lie is that the word bearers are not motivated by truth they are motivated by the fact the gods give them power undreamed of by other men and they are addicted to it while dressing it up in religion. I mean imagine telling your self everyday you are the best, you are the chosen of the gods, you have all these abilities and secrets at your disposal that no one else has and you have the power to kill people less powerful than yourself or disagree with you, you have the abiltiy to talk to and enslave immortal beings that offer you wisdom and power that defy reality itself. Thats the Wordbearer's mindset every fucking day and they are completely drunk off it. Basically the word bearers are like kids who had a harsh disciplined father who wanted them to go to work on what was important instead of singing kumbaya and pointing everyone's toenails and then they had another foster father figure come along offering them drugs and videogames and murder as long as they paid fealty to that father and gave him part of their paycheck he would let them do whatever the fuck they wanted. The Emperor offered duty and responsibility, the chaos gods offered ego.
What duty is left deserving of a tyrant that destroyed their faith and their city. A city that glorified him and ultimately got annihilated for it. All because they didn't follow an atheist "truth" some self-absorbed, genocidal dick rammed through. All lies from a false emperor that decays in a golden throne. DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!
Yet they fear the darkness they call home and the shadows they call allies.
Superb narration and presentation as always 👍🏻
The Alpha Legion being so secretive and confusing that it ends up biting them in the ass to the point where even _they_ don’t know what and who they are anymore- when we think they did all along is honestly the most Alpha Legion thing ever. Hilarious.
Another banger video, you are one of my favourite CZcamsrs ❤. Really appreciate the hard work
I always thought I was Alpharius. But now I know Weshammer is Alpharius.
Sounds like they ruined everything good about the Alpha Legion.
i wonder if they will ever have someone who serves the good aspects of the chaos gods and does good in their name.
I 100% love this version of the Alpha Legion more than all the conspiracy/fan theories.
This video was great! Thank you! (I listened to it while doing the dishes: best way to actually take something in …)
I love the thought of the God of Firm Handshakes.