From a hobby point of view its great that storm guardians are a dual kit instead of an 'upgrade' and the model poses look really dynamic and cool. Its nice that they are not completely bad this edition.
Guardians are good precisely because they are a multi-tool.They can fulfill multiple roles, often at the same time. They are also punched up considerably with a warlock. They don't compute on the math-hammer charts. Which is why a lot of folks won't even try them on the table. Which is a shame, because they shine in a lot of situations. Guardians are the mortar that holds the harder bricks together. Also remember that their melee is somewhat bolstered by the effectiveness of shuriken pistols when they are already stuck in. I've found if they charge you, and you overwatch with 2 flamers and a warlocks "heavy flamer" that any hits from melta or pistols are bonus. Against many objectively "better" units that are not specialized at assault they will actually come out on top. I ran 60 of each type of Guardians in a list and it was surprisingly effective as an amorphous blob that just didn't die easily and hit surprisingly hard. They took a long time to degrade, especially when I was always able to pick who died based on who I was least likely to need.
Nice dude 120 guardians!!! That insane dude I love it! You are totally right though! They are a multi tool that can be really useful because of their objective play
@@ProxyHammer1 not just objective play though. Objective play is a bonus. They can be good at short to medium range anti-tank, they can do light anti-infantry work, and in an era where nothing runs they are survivable enough that it takes an effort to actually get rid of them.
I have been playing with them for a few months and love putting warlock in them for that quicken, and just let them run around claiming objectives while rest of my warhost does what it does best. Very glad, that they finally are not only usable, but actually quite good. When I put farseer in them as well I can keep that fortune/fate dice cenversion bubble relevant for units on front
They have been on "the list" to purchase for me since 10th released. Something to be said for attaching both a Farseer and Warlock. A Farseer with 12+ additional wounds, additional shooting phase damage output with a Warlock, include sticky obj. The plan is to do the same with Defenders to guard home obj while farming fate dice with a heavy weapon platform for long range damage. Something to consider.
IG player here, they look a lot like scions to me. Basically the same price, The platform gives then a bit more defense, more OC, and they are slightly faster assault infantry instead of having deep strike. They get sticky instead of rerolling attacks. Scions are currently... ok in guard. They're more often taken in 5 man squads to score secondaries. So it stands to reason that storm guardians are ok, balanced units... except eldari currently have stronger options than guard, and even guard doesn't use full action squads often, so they drop from ok to merely inoffensive. The 2 oc looks nice though.
It certainly helps that you can make Storm Guardians out of the most recent Guardian box without needing a separate upgrade sprue so maybe people will give them a fair shake now. I have my blob of 10 in the pile of shame, just need to splash some paint on. One more thing, however: while everything you brought up certainly makes Storm Guardians worth considering, things (including Storm Guardians) generally being more durable in 10th allows Guardians to be more effective at the one thing anyone might've taken them for in the past: nuisance charging. I've considered having a group of them led by the Visarch. Counter "just charge them they're fragile" with giving them Fights First. Stupid decision competitively speaking but eh, I'm in it for the shenanigans.
The problems with Storm Guardians are many. You really pay extra for their special weapons, but that's not they are useful for, as they simply don't trade well, even if you managed to take out 2-3 terminators. The platform is useful for the couple of extra wounds, but the invulv is rarely useful. You need a Warlock to guarantee movement, but then lose restrain. The unit needs both, and really needs quicken combined with matchless agility to be allowed. The 160pt unit compares badly with 20 Catachans led by Iron Hand (165pts), which can be faster, is tougher, better in melee and has Scouts 6". If the Storm Guardians also had a free Warlock, then they would be worth taking. In a very very large game eg Onslaught or greater, a single unit may proves useful, or perhaps a huge battlefield, with only one unit each, where you are also faster than that unit. They cannot trade reliably. If they could have an option of 4 flamers or 4 melta guns instead, and perhaps in a unit of 5 they could be more viable. They are missing something, whether mobility or specialist firepower. Infiltrators could be a really good start. Perhaps the grenade stratagem for 0cp, or perhaps a melta mine ala Kasrkin could be another option.
Ya i mean they are never going to be able to outtrade a unit specialized in light infantry clearing like catachans with 4 flamers plus ironhand (who is absolutely bonkers for his cost). But they do trade well into basic 5 man marine units and things like scouts.
I had a surplus of guardians (like 80 of the buggers) I made 3x20 man defender sqauds (which was the style of the time) I decided to make a 16 man storm sqaud with the plan of getting 4 more guardians lateras the options were 8,16,24 at the time. The upgrade sprews were 8 upgrades for $24 tunt-spunting dollars (cad) I'm not allergic to my own money so rather than pay $72 for 24 sprews I decided to tie an onion to my belt (which was the style at the time) and kitbash them by cutting a chunk out of the shuriken catapult leaving them with BIG pistols and adding wraithblade sword (which is bigger than they are) So I've created 20 Nodachi storm guardians (Well 16+special weapons)
So for 115 I could get a unit of Warp Spiders with 6 dev wound flamers that move 24" per turn. For 85 I could get Fire Dragons with reroll 1s for wounds and damage that also have a better melta profile. If I wanted a melee unit I could go doe a 10 man troupe at 150 or if I wanted powerswords I could use Void Scarred at 140. At 115 they do nothing well and everything terribly, you cannot take 4 of the same special weapon so 2 fusions/flamers do next to no damage and the melee is just insultingly bad. I am not convinced by the sticky objectives ability either, especially for a faction as fast as ours with access to back field artillery AND infiltrate/ scout options. Sorry but I'm just not seeing the appeal
@@ProxyHammer1 true, none of them have sticky objectives but I'm not convinced that storm guardians are the way to go for primary scoring. In the situation you've described in the video (capturing the home and a midfield objective) I think you could do it more efficiently. Forgive me for the assumption but I expect most eldar lists to have at least 1 night spinner or dark reapers with a tempest launcher that can stay at the home objective. For the midfield I think a lone op character probably does the job better and unlike the sticky objective strategy leaving a character on there stops deepstrike units dropping in to steal it. I appreciate that you're looking at the lesser used units and are giving them a role... and it should be noted that the meta that you play against could be worlds apart from mine so you might be seeing better results with them than me.
@@0MaxK0 Fair points! I have on quite a few occasions used lone ops to secure objectives my opponents could not get to, although sometimes it means they can’t go very far without having to give up the objective. Not a lot of deep striking in my local meta that I have seen so maybe my success with the SG hinged on that when I tried them out 🤔
I've already had so many storm guardians (>40, wanted to be able to field 3 maxed out/naked squads and therefore needed some extras...) even before this edition hit that I now have a problem with the platforms... And since noone really bothers looking at them people mostly don't even notice the mixture of metal, resin and plastic models, since I replaced some bits with new ones after having some leftover parts from a defender unit I now wield some nice Frankenguardians with parts that were released over decades in a single modell
Now, this unit cost 100 pts. Our fate dice system look less and less important. Could it be efficient to put the Autarch in this unit ? Making this unit able to deal more damages, still good on primaries points and save points to include more units in the army ?
I have tried them out with Yvraine, so a 5++ and 5+++ with some revives. Did seem quite okay with the fusions - I think that's the only viable way for me, and then I just found it better to take kabalites and a venom then put her with the 5 basic guys just to sticky things. (Then the usual gun boat venom with the toys in) Now Yvraine is just in deep strike by herself and I take more guns... :)
@@javilo2797 I thought so? At the battle formations step you choose leaders/transports in whichever order you want. So declare the kabalites into the Venom, that splits them into 2 separate units - both called "Kabalite Warriors". Then Yvraine joins the 5 men on foot, and has a little body guard of ablative 5+++ guys. Unless I am missing something :)
Storm guardians are and always have been a great unit. Add some movement strats and fate dice for damage and you can sometimes kill tanks and sticky center objectives at the same time
They dont even want to be in combat with their current combat stats... power weapons would make them better in combat but still not make them good enough to take without their sticky objectives imo
With only one swing power weapons aren't that special. If you want a "cheap" power weapon source I'd recommend the corsairs. Storm Guardians are utility...they can do a little bit of everything decently. And the reason that is good is because Eldar are such a specialized army that if everything is specialized you'll often lack redundancy in the areas you do need to concentrate on in a particular game.
You didnt convince me enought 😂. But im kinda salty cus i dont like nowadays eldars competitive playstyle. I loved banshee and scorp glasscannons in 9th
From a hobby point of view its great that storm guardians are a dual kit instead of an 'upgrade' and the model poses look really dynamic and cool.
Its nice that they are not completely bad this edition.
Totally agree!
Guardians are good precisely because they are a multi-tool.They can fulfill multiple roles, often at the same time. They are also punched up considerably with a warlock. They don't compute on the math-hammer charts. Which is why a lot of folks won't even try them on the table. Which is a shame, because they shine in a lot of situations. Guardians are the mortar that holds the harder bricks together.
Also remember that their melee is somewhat bolstered by the effectiveness of shuriken pistols when they are already stuck in. I've found if they charge you, and you overwatch with 2 flamers and a warlocks "heavy flamer" that any hits from melta or pistols are bonus. Against many objectively "better" units that are not specialized at assault they will actually come out on top.
I ran 60 of each type of Guardians in a list and it was surprisingly effective as an amorphous blob that just didn't die easily and hit surprisingly hard. They took a long time to degrade, especially when I was always able to pick who died based on who I was least likely to need.
Nice dude 120 guardians!!! That insane dude I love it! You are totally right though! They are a multi tool that can be really useful because of their objective play
@@ProxyHammer1 not just objective play though. Objective play is a bonus. They can be good at short to medium range anti-tank, they can do light anti-infantry work, and in an era where nothing runs they are survivable enough that it takes an effort to actually get rid of them.
@@DonksGrooves very versatile unit!
very good! was gonna kitbash my storm guardians into striking scorpions, this video gives me pause.
They certainly can be fielded as Striking Scorpions they look pretty similar! Storm guardians are looking good though!
I have been playing with them for a few months and love putting warlock in them for that quicken, and just let them run around claiming objectives while rest of my warhost does what it does best. Very glad, that they finally are not only usable, but actually quite good. When I put farseer in them as well I can keep that fortune/fate dice cenversion bubble relevant for units on front
While not strictly necessary i do think the warlock adds solid value to the unit!
They have been on "the list" to purchase for me since 10th released.
Something to be said for attaching both a Farseer and Warlock. A Farseer with 12+ additional wounds, additional shooting phase damage output with a Warlock, include sticky obj.
The plan is to do the same with Defenders to guard home obj while farming fate dice with a heavy weapon platform for long range damage.
Something to consider.
Ya they really are pretty good and the sticky objectives is awesome
Extra shooting?
I think the Warlocks destructor flamer is what he is referring too@@LoftOfTheUniverse
I think I love storm guardians, put them in a 1k game and they just put in work. Proxy hammer helping my win rate
Good to hear!! They are a really solid unit!
IG player here, they look a lot like scions to me. Basically the same price, The platform gives then a bit more defense, more OC, and they are slightly faster assault infantry instead of having deep strike. They get sticky instead of rerolling attacks. Scions are currently... ok in guard. They're more often taken in 5 man squads to score secondaries. So it stands to reason that storm guardians are ok, balanced units... except eldari currently have stronger options than guard, and even guard doesn't use full action squads often, so they drop from ok to merely inoffensive. The 2 oc looks nice though.
They really fit in quite well!
It certainly helps that you can make Storm Guardians out of the most recent Guardian box without needing a separate upgrade sprue so maybe people will give them a fair shake now. I have my blob of 10 in the pile of shame, just need to splash some paint on.
One more thing, however: while everything you brought up certainly makes Storm Guardians worth considering, things (including Storm Guardians) generally being more durable in 10th allows Guardians to be more effective at the one thing anyone might've taken them for in the past: nuisance charging.
I've considered having a group of them led by the Visarch. Counter "just charge them they're fragile" with giving them Fights First. Stupid decision competitively speaking but eh, I'm in it for the shenanigans.
Visarch with SG sounds fun actually ill have to try that!
The thing about gaurdians, is kinda regardless how you feel about them, you need them to bring your beloved farseers/ eldrad
For sure! I mean you could always go the PG route and skip the guardians but I like bringing them!
The problems with Storm Guardians are many. You really pay extra for their special weapons, but that's not they are useful for, as they simply don't trade well, even if you managed to take out 2-3 terminators. The platform is useful for the couple of extra wounds, but the invulv is rarely useful. You need a Warlock to guarantee movement, but then lose restrain. The unit needs both, and really needs quicken combined with matchless agility to be allowed. The 160pt unit compares badly with 20 Catachans led by Iron Hand (165pts), which can be faster, is tougher, better in melee and has Scouts 6".
If the Storm Guardians also had a free Warlock, then they would be worth taking. In a very very large game eg Onslaught or greater, a single unit may proves useful, or perhaps a huge battlefield, with only one unit each, where you are also faster than that unit.
They cannot trade reliably. If they could have an option of 4 flamers or 4 melta guns instead, and perhaps in a unit of 5 they could be more viable.
They are missing something, whether mobility or specialist firepower. Infiltrators could be a really good start. Perhaps the grenade stratagem for 0cp, or perhaps a melta mine ala Kasrkin could be another option.
Ya i mean they are never going to be able to outtrade a unit specialized in light infantry clearing like catachans with 4 flamers plus ironhand (who is absolutely bonkers for his cost). But they do trade well into basic 5 man marine units and things like scouts.
I had a surplus of guardians (like 80 of the buggers) I made 3x20 man defender sqauds (which was the style of the time)
I decided to make a 16 man storm sqaud with the plan of getting 4 more guardians lateras the options were 8,16,24 at the time.
The upgrade sprews were 8 upgrades for $24 tunt-spunting dollars (cad)
I'm not allergic to my own money so rather than pay $72 for 24 sprews I decided to tie an onion to my belt (which was the style at the time) and kitbash them by cutting a chunk out of the shuriken catapult leaving them with BIG pistols and adding wraithblade sword (which is bigger than they are)
So I've created 20 Nodachi storm guardians
(Well 16+special weapons)
Haha nice!!! I like that idea!
Thanks for these videos. What are the thoughts on adding an Autarch to the unit?
I’m not a huge fan of making them more expensive than they have to be to get the job done but it does improve them quite a bit in combat!
I used 1-2 squads of Storm guardians with fusion as cheap quick response units in Wave Serpents back in 4th.
Interesting! My buddy ran a unit in a Waveserpent in 4th and used them in very similar ways
So for 115 I could get a unit of Warp Spiders with 6 dev wound flamers that move 24" per turn. For 85 I could get Fire Dragons with reroll 1s for wounds and damage that also have a better melta profile. If I wanted a melee unit I could go doe a 10 man troupe at 150 or if I wanted powerswords I could use Void Scarred at 140.
At 115 they do nothing well and everything terribly, you cannot take 4 of the same special weapon so 2 fusions/flamers do next to no damage and the melee is just insultingly bad. I am not convinced by the sticky objectives ability either, especially for a faction as fast as ours with access to back field artillery AND infiltrate/ scout options.
Sorry but I'm just not seeing the appeal
None of the units you mentioned have sticky objectives which is the main reason you take SG's
Their damage isnt terrible at close range considering their primary role.
@@ProxyHammer1 true, none of them have sticky objectives but I'm not convinced that storm guardians are the way to go for primary scoring.
In the situation you've described in the video (capturing the home and a midfield objective) I think you could do it more efficiently.
Forgive me for the assumption but I expect most eldar lists to have at least 1 night spinner or dark reapers with a tempest launcher that can stay at the home objective. For the midfield I think a lone op character probably does the job better and unlike the sticky objective strategy leaving a character on there stops deepstrike units dropping in to steal it.
I appreciate that you're looking at the lesser used units and are giving them a role... and it should be noted that the meta that you play against could be worlds apart from mine so you might be seeing better results with them than me.
@@0MaxK0 Fair points! I have on quite a few occasions used lone ops to secure objectives my opponents could not get to, although sometimes it means they can’t go very far without having to give up the objective. Not a lot of deep striking in my local meta that I have seen so maybe my success with the SG hinged on that when I tried them out 🤔
I've already had so many storm guardians (>40, wanted to be able to field 3 maxed out/naked squads and therefore needed some extras...) even before this edition hit that I now have a problem with the platforms...
And since noone really bothers looking at them people mostly don't even notice the mixture of metal, resin and plastic models, since I replaced some bits with new ones after having some leftover parts from a defender unit I now wield some nice Frankenguardians with parts that were released over decades in a single modell
That how my guardians used to look man no worries there!!
Do not forget to fire your pistols if you do get stuck in melee!
Yes!!
Are Wave Serpents useful with Storm Guardians, or not worth the points cost? You could get another Storm squad for the points, after all.
I think the serpent with them is very counter productive as it doesn’t benefit from sticky objectives
Now, this unit cost 100 pts. Our fate dice system look less and less important. Could it be efficient to put the Autarch in this unit ? Making this unit able to deal more damages, still good on primaries points and save points to include more units in the army ?
I don’t think that’s a bad option at all honestly
@@ProxyHammer1 I will try in my guardians defender and no farseer. 17 units in 2000 pts... Wait and see next battle 😜
@@MrThepatriot30 Nice!!
Ah. I thought these would be the hotness in 9th, so i bought and built 30 of the old kit lmao
Ahhhh man I feel bad for you my dear sweet child of Isha 😢 well you can at least feel better that they are much better in 10th
They ARE nice. At lower points games. Sticky objectives is super nice to have at 500 points and 1k.
I find them quite useful too! Sticky objs is underrated
I have tried them out with Yvraine, so a 5++ and 5+++ with some revives. Did seem quite okay with the fusions - I think that's the only viable way for me, and then I just found it better to take kabalites and a venom then put her with the 5 basic guys just to sticky things. (Then the usual gun boat venom with the toys in)
Now Yvraine is just in deep strike by herself and I take more guns... :)
Ya I think if you have access to kabalites they are a bit redundant 🫤
Can they split in a venom if lead by yvraine? I dont think they can?
As long as yvraine is not in the transport then yes@@javilo2797
@@javilo2797 I thought so? At the battle formations step you choose leaders/transports in whichever order you want. So declare the kabalites into the Venom, that splits them into 2 separate units - both called "Kabalite Warriors".
Then Yvraine joins the 5 men on foot, and has a little body guard of ablative 5+++ guys.
Unless I am missing something :)
Are storm guardians meta? Let's check Best Coast Pairings or similar. Count number of times storm guardians appear there.
No…but they could be 😉
Zero.
@@clidefrog2 Doesn’t mean they aren’t solid 😉
Storm guardians are and always have been a great unit. Add some movement strats and fate dice for damage and you can sometimes kill tanks and sticky center objectives at the same time
Agreed! and i think they have a bigger place to shine now that there have been so many top level nerfs!@@exmaplecore4559
Im using them to with a warlock for a fast sticky unit, mind you its a melee eldar list
That’s a great way to use them. Imo the optimal way to use them, truthfully though they are terrible in melee lol 😂
The only time they saw melee was last round against a chaos raptor with 1 wound left, mind you that raptor survived 3 bright lances
With the warlock they can also be a good screen for charging units, -2 to charge plus phantasum you turn a guaranteed charge to a 10"
@@camfalafranca800 Absolutely!
@@camfalafranca800 lmfao of course he survived 3 lances!
Storm Guardians would be worth their points if they'd all have Pwoer Weapons.
I LOVE them bu they're only there for fluff /sadface
They dont even want to be in combat with their current combat stats... power weapons would make them better in combat but still not make them good enough to take without their sticky objectives imo
With only one swing power weapons aren't that special. If you want a "cheap" power weapon source I'd recommend the corsairs. Storm Guardians are utility...they can do a little bit of everything decently. And the reason that is good is because Eldar are such a specialized army that if everything is specialized you'll often lack redundancy in the areas you do need to concentrate on in a particular game.
I wouldnt pay 90p for them
A damn shame because they are pretty good
You didnt convince me enought 😂. But im kinda salty cus i dont like nowadays eldars competitive playstyle. I loved banshee and scorp glasscannons in 9th
Ya if you like melee then SG will sorely disappoint you :( most eldar combat is trash this edition :/@@GrimgorRulez
Love u proxy 😘 but no they suck
You are killing me my friend 😅😢
Lol, absolutely not.
😢
Try them out you might surprise yourself!
@@ProxyHammer1😂
No, they bad. And, all footdar are bad, the just die horribly
There is something called LOS blocking terrain. Dire avengers have featured in several competitive lists and they are sometimes taken on foot
Rangers and dark reapers are footdar units that are good/decent
Agreed! @@D4RK_FL4M3
Just no 🫥
😢
Sorry man, they are absolutely terrible
Guardians have been eating good for the last couple years
They are a lot better now than they were for sure!
Wait wut, I only take the barest minimum guardians that I have to take. Save for 8th with the guardian bomb strat,