Adopted Russian Girl Returned for Mental Health Issues | Sabrina Caldwell Case Analysis
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- čas přidán 10. 12. 2021
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Sabrina Caldwell? This case, which involves an adopted girl from Russia, was covered a couple of times on the show “48 hours?”
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After adopting me, doctors told my parents I would never walk. The adoption agency offered to send me back overseas, to which they replied, “No way. She’s ours.”
Yup. That's what real parents do. They love their kids, no matter what. 💙💙💙
Awww, beautiful parents
Beautiful
Not sending your child back is not beautiful. That’s an incredibly low bar. It’s the normal decent thing to do. Makes me sad it has come to people getting praised for not being abusive assholes
@@binkao2938 Calm down
People seem to think adopting older children is always going to be like a lifetime movie. It seems like the parents were in over their head. I’m glad Sabrina is doing well now 💗
Lifetime movie always have weird twists so?
@@Catsss1017 lol maybe I mean Hallmark movie 🤦♀️🤦♀️
She's so pretty
@@Amanda-el9dx Wait, could it be a Disney movie? --A Sci-Fi Channel movie? --A David Lynch movie? - Sorry, I speculate too much, I know. No offence intended
Well why does anyone want or need to adopt people? I find those people weird.
All I can say as someone who was adopted at an older age: please, please, please keep adopting older kids and giving them your all. Looking back, I can see now how difficult I probably was to raise (hell, I'm still in therapy for some of it haha) and yet the constant love, patience and commitment from my parents is why I'm still alive today and doing well. Children don't choose who they're born to, what circumstances that might accompany, or any other factors (mental health issues, learning disabilities, etc.). Every single child deserves a safe home and people who love them, who won't quit when it's hard, and will help them navigate this world.
I was surprised how much this story affected me, even now with things from my childhood so far in the past. One of my worst fears when I was younger was that I was going to be kicked out and told I was unlovable. I am so thankful that day never came because I cannot even imagine the pain that would come with the knowledge that people who promised to care for you instead voluntarily gave up on you. Very glad to see Sabrina thriving.
Please, if you are able, consider opening your home to foster care - good, supportive families are in too short supply for vulnerable kids.
No
Yeah, you've convinced me now I'm gonna adopt half of the population very soon!
We fostered many kids over 10 years. Only teens though, we got on really well, camping, hiking etc. Yes, issues but so what? We all have stuff that is awful, and it was expected. We enjoyed our time, getting involved, giving where we could. Still catch up 20 years later.
In case you haven't heard it today.
YOU are loveable!
God bless you for your encouragement of others and God bless your parents for sticking with it. I'm a parent, and it's tough.
in my teens, my parents were told i was bipolar and o.d.d.. i'm 32, and since moving away from home at 17, i've been completely stable and have had no need for meds or other mental health assistance. it's scary how some people have no problem slapping on a diagnosis after a single conversation/visit with a nervous kid. i'm glad she was able to live her best life.
Agree. Often it's the parents and home environment that is responsible which doctors never ask about.
Nice! I barely passed high school and was lucky to get into college. My home life was beyond chaotic as my parents are borderline/narcissists/egomaniacs. When I got to college I flourished, and now I'm a doctor. When I visit my parents, I honestly pity them, they are so petty and never matured
One of my family members has had every medicine you can name slammed down his throat since he was 6 years old. Every school year they have given him a new label and a new disorder. He was told his whole life that he had learning disabilities and did not know how to behave socially. At 30 he is one of the most intelligent young men I know. He has great friends, holds down a steady job, and is happy. He doesn’t take one single medicine at this point in his life. So idk what to say about these situations.
It would be interesting to hear what Joshua has to say today.
I agree I've seen one friend get diagnosed with autism, adhd, depression, anxiety and bipolar. I just think theses assessments are too subjective and the bar to get diagnosed is extremely low. I also cant help thinking of the monetary incentive. Once you are "diagnosed" then they try to upsell their treatment plans which tend to cost a lot. I've also seen people no longer make the effort to get better, thinking they have disorders that only doctors can help with. Very scary!
The sad truth is that a large chunk of the adult population isn't ready for parenthood and even fewer are equipped for adoption and all the baggage that comes with it. That in of itself isn't a problem, as people can grow and change over time. The deeply worrying part is the sheer lack of self-awareness or just straight up unwillingness to change you see from some of these people.
In a world where so many people can't have children or lost their own, whom are dying for a chance at parenthood, it's infuriating to see orphans being paired with inept morons who are way over their heads.
Sorry for the emotional response.
Adopting a child should not be like an impulse buy at the check out line at the grocery store. THINK PEOPLE!!!
I would love to adopt one day. But I also know that I'm not ready for that. I maybe never will. But not having kids is infinitely better than having one and not being equipped to give them a good, safe, and happy life.
This is so perfectly stated Junko.
@@ChubbyUnicorn some parents are even able to be good parents to their biological own.
You lost me at orfans.
I have a video suggestion. Brian Wilson genius who led the Beach Boys during the 60's, had a life of mental health struggles and was victim of an abusive therapist Eugene Landy. His story is very insightful and sad but it can also be used as an uplifting example of overcoming ones demons as well. Its a very multi-faceted subject to cover.
Too big of a topic to cover in Dr.‘s usual video length.
@@anonymousadult on the grande media podcast maybe?
Me tooooooo.. Study THIS!! PLEASE..it ALWAYS bothered me. My gut usually is right!
Abusive therapist?
As abusive as Brian's father was, no doubt it contributed to Brian's emotional state when he wrote those heart wrenching ballots years later. His emotional state was all over the place.
BUT...his two other brothers did not express the same abuse as creativity...so one must conclude that much of the creativity was in Brian to begin with.
I think a good discussion would be if Brian raised in another environment would have been as emotional, what type of music would he have created
After adopting me at birth, infertile parents were able to have their own two sons, and growing up knowing your parents don't really want you there is extremely painful. When I had normal teenage moodiness, my mom would constantly scream at me that I "needed psychological help" and of course never offered me any. I found out later she had been told there were mental health issues in the maternal bio family and she weaponized this, without telling me the source of her suspicions. My memories of her were always avoiding me or being impatient with me, and the family seemed like their own team and I was by myself. This treatment did make me extremely depressed. But there was nothing like what Sabrina went through - I wonder how Sabrina turned out so emotionally healthy after the treatment from all of the adults throughout the childhood that failed her? She is certainly more resilient than I was.
I've certainly never read anything more resilient than your comment ❤️
My parents are from Estonia, that was a part of former USSR. I know that illness of the mother was a reason that children were put in orphanage, so she must not have been rejected as a person. Alcoholism was another reason. Foster care as a system didn’t exist, but a relative (or relatives could take care of a child, if they were willing)
Even if Sabrina was “thriving”, means only she has no overt signs of maladation. She can still be depressed. Maybe she was told by the adoption agency that this was her only way to be adopted in US.
.
Maladaption.
I'm sorry that you had that experience growing up. You deserved better than that. I have always been as open with my children abt their bio parents as was age appropriate.
Unfortunately, this happens a lot. I grew up in the foster care system in the US and I knew at least 9 people who were adopted abroad (from Ukraine, Paraguay, Mexico, Germany, Australia, and others) and then they were put into foster care in the US later. Most were rehomed due to reactive attachment disorder but some were just because they didn't have the same opinions on politics or religion as their parents. It's unfortunate, but a lot of people who do adopt shouldn't.
😥
Paraguay changed it’s laws and international adoption is no longer allowed.
Wow, kids are some kind of "products"? "If you find defects in the product we allow refunds and more. Happy shopping"
@@somethingelse4424 Jesus Christ, they adopt children to kinda try to put them into a cult rather than a loving home.
@@florencia2771 I didn't know that, my friend Morgan was adopted from there in 92 or 93, though, because his biological parents had 12 older kids and thought he'd be better off in America. He wasn't rehomed, but he was treated like crap when he developed schizophrenia. It really sucks.
I was adopted as a child and I was shocked while watching this edition of 48hrs. 70 years later I can still remember the icy chill I felt after doing something forbidden when I was told that I'd be put in a "home". I'm amazed that Sabrina could survive and eventually thrive after such an experience and I wish her the best for the future.
I worked in a behavioral health hospital for children when I finished grad school and we had a girl who had been adopted from Russia who was a frequent flier at the facility. She had so much trauma and her parents were definitely not equipped to handle her needs. She literally tried to light them on fire while they slept. Multiple times.
Eventually they refused to take her back home at discharge. I don’t know exactly what consequences the parents faced as a result, but it was a terrible situation for everyone involved, for sure.
The girl you mentioned sounds like an extreme case but it does happen. I know people who adopted a dangerous 3 year old Guatemalan child. When there are other children you have to consider their safety.
.I feel the mother in this case was probably so afraid of adopting a sociopath that when Sabrina displayed the typical challenging behaviors to be expected in the early stages of adoption for an older child she saw that as evidence of what she was afraid of. When I first adopted my older Russian boys at times I sometimes wondered if I had adopted 2 juvenile delinquents and 1 bully. They didn't seem like sociopaths in the orphanage but some members of our family who had not met them in the orphanage were honestly wondering. Extreme behavior for the first few months tends to be the rule, not the exception. Having had biological children does not prepare you. Having taught troubled children in your classroom does not prepare you, the adoption agencies do not prepare you. The people that do your home studies and require you to attend seminars on such things as reactive attachment disorder, etc. are the only ones suggesting you might run into difficulties but even they don't prepare you for the inevitable extreme behaviors of the relatively normal non-sociopath children that my children were and the children of many of my acquaintances from my parents' group were .
And this is why I side with the parents for sending the evil child back to Russia. The dog could have been dead, the brother could have been dead, within a matter of days.
My sister is going through this right now and sadly my sister has started the un-adoption process. My sister was never told the daughter had a history is accusing people of physical and sexual abuse(men who she never had contact with). The daughter has been in & out of psychiatric hospitals for suicidal thoughts and threatening to kill the whole family including my parents. She has now accused my sister of physical and sexual abuse. Every day she going to school and saying my sister sexual abuses her every morning before school. She admitted to her social worker that she was just tired of living with my sister and wanted to move on to a new home since it worked in the past. My sister fears for her little kids and what the daughter can do. Also, my sister is a teacher and the accusations could cause my sister to loose her job and teaching license.
@@maryellenstalter1205 Thank you for sharing another side of this kind of nightmare. So sad for everyone. Hope your sister (and the adoptee) comes out of this ok. Ppl are often quick to judge but don't see the reality of the ruin this type of thing can cause.
I am the parent of two internationally adopted children. They were adopted at 11 months and 3 years. There is no doubt that neglect can have enormous impacts on the older child with “normalization” taking a much longer period. The parents seemed to be very poorly prepared to deal with the behavioral impacts of being around institutionalized children. This story broke my heart and taking their child back to Russia was really extreme. I think Dr. Grande’s analysis is positive and realistic. I’m relieved she was able to develop into a happy adult. Adoptive parents should have the additional burden of understanding and researching what children go through when they are traumatized by abandonment of their birth parents.
I can speak to this. My mother abandoned me when I was a year old because she wanted to live the party life. And now 38 years later she blames my dad from keeping her from me. She forgets that my dad raised me and I know how much he wanted my mom and I to have a relationship. It caused me a lifetime of pain and struggles with self esteem and confidence. I am so glad to see that she appears to be doing well.
I'm so sorry. People like your mother seem to be incapable of openly admitting they've made mistakes. Those folks make terrible parents.
It's hard to say this, not knowing you or your family, but you might have been better off with your mother out of your life.
@@lml656 no don’t be sorry. You hit the nail on the head. My life could have turned out very differently had I had to witness her drunken neglect daily. My two half brothers lived with her and one became one of the worst paranoid schizophrenics I’ve ever seen and the other jumped off of a bridge 7 years ago and took his own life. And he always told me that he saw our mom about as much as I did and had his own demons with her that he fought. My situation was much better even though I never got to know what motherly love felt like.
I think some people should have to be screened before being allowed to reproduce 🤣
All jokes aside I thank my lucky stars for my dads mother and grandmother because they played a huge part in my upbringing and taught me compassion and kindness. My dad could be verbally abusive at times, so their presence was key in me not turning into some sort of psycho. They taught me to love animals and be kind to people and to respect our planet. I am now a tree hugging vegetarian for the past 30 years and love animals more than I like people lol.
@@missylee1539 I don't blame you for that. It's terribly sad what happened to your brothers, but I'm glad you're safe and doing well!
Really pleased for you that you had a good dad.
@@lml656 thank you for your kind words ❤️
So sad and disturbing. I adopted a little boy from Africa that couldn't walk, so they were starving him to death. From the moment I picked him up, I knew I would NEVER put him down again.
Turned out to be a completely fixable issue with ever having surgery. He is now the best son ever, he'll be starting his medical residency next year and he's currently in Zimbabwe doing covid vaccination clinics. Such a kind, happy boy who loves me so much. We talk every night he's somewhere that has internet and power. My life would just be so sad and lonely without him.
Was it hard? Absolutely. He required a lot of treatments, speech therapy, physical therapy and counseling for what he went through at the orphanage. We've faced obvious racism as a mixed family, down to getting rejected by rental properties once they saw him.
Was ot worth it? 1000٪. You get back what you give to these kids in spades. It's just amazing. There's not anything he ever could have done that would ever justify dumping him back in his old country and never coming to get him. Even pondering that for a moment gave me heaving sobs of anguish. I can barely think of something so horrible, let alone type it out.
Those people should be ashamed of themselves. They didn't deserve that little girl or any child for that matter. She was a stay at home mom, she just wasn't watching them. They obviously had money, overseas adoption doesn't come cheaply at all and Russian adoptions cost exponentially more because white families want white babies.
I know another couple who adopted a little girl from the same country I got my son from. They found her in a dump as a newborn. She had some major issues at school, but the parents buckled down and got her help. It was very hard on them until the professionals found out she was HIGHLY gifted, and I mean brilliant and she was bored and frustrated at school. She ended up at MIT, iirc and now gives talks all over the world about nuclear stuff I think. Haven't talked to the parents since we moved some years ago, but I know she was making the big bucks and bought her parents a house and putting her other siblings through college. Such a wonderful young lady now. You get what you give.
Shame, shame, shame on them. I hope they figure out just how terrible people they are. What a truly upsetting story. The only silver lining is that she turned better than fine. Better than the horrible people that abandoned her, and I hope she knows that and is living a charmed life.
You are an angel .love to u
I have two biological children and pray every day they die or disappear they are just bad people and will not listen.
God bless you and your very successful son😘🤗🙏
Connie 🇺🇸
@@dongross6624 thank you lord bless thyn Christ unto him amen 🙏
Not all children or adopted children turn out intelligent, or even law-abiding. And a small child kicks on the protective emotions, as an older child does not.
I think the adoption agency has some responsibility in this case also, they shouldn’t give one inexperienced couple two children. Maybe they didn’t want to separate siblings.
I have one biological son now 27, one adopted daughter now 24. She was 3 months and 4 kg when we got her, we/she herself had lots of problems, but now she is fine. The biggest issues were mental, most like BPD, and illegal activities. She has promised to stop the second thing now. She still lives with me, but she has now plans for her future and works hard. 🇸🇪
What I was immediately struck by was that the couple adopted two children of very different ages, and who were presumably not related and hadn't known each other. Joshua, being much younger, was probably closer to the expectations of these new parents. Trying to deal with these two children with different developmental needs, based upon their ages, appeared to be overwhelming for these inexperienced parents. What stood out to me that the parents, especially the mother, were panicking with the responsibility. They should have started with one child. It's good that they got Sabrina out of that home.
I believe the initial adoptive mother couldn't love Sabrina because she wasn't the perfect child as the mother expected, unlike Joshua again was. She couldn't handle Sabrina, misunderstood her and eventually started resent her. Then start straight up lying on her behavior and get fabricated mental diagnoses on her to get an excuse to get rid of her.
I got the impression that they adopted Sabrina to help out with Joshua. Bad judgement telling a 9 year old to go pick up a small child and carry him down those steep steps.
They went to Russia to adopt Sabrina. Then once there they met Josh and decided to adopt him too.
@@brutalictesku Agreed
Great anwer.
I'm glad Sabrina is living a happy life now. I'd love to hear Joshua's side of the story.
He was a toddler.
I doubt he remembers the events with accuracy.
@@bigsistahtips no, but he can say what it was like to grow up in that house with those parents.
I'd also love to hear her parents that adopted her and kept her. That to me would be the most telling. They could attest to how she was upon first coming to them and then as she grew up.
@@Lexielouwho
Yes that would be interesting. I know Joshua was too young to remember the "incident". But, I'd love to know what kind of mother she was to him
@@bigsistahtips right, but you'd get a sense of what kind of parenting he was subjected to.
It sounds like the adoptive parents were not actually prepared to adopt two children. They take “helicopter parent“ to a new level. I am glad to hear Sabrina was resilient and forged ahead to have a great life.
Please read my comments in this thread. There is much more to know and understand about adoption from the former Soviet Union.
We have adopted 6 children. None from abroad. All are special needs in some way. Each child had a child study inventory that included a mental health assessment and and family history. Prior to all of that we filled out a list of traits / issues we would be willing to accept. In court they read all of the child’s issues back to you and ask if you still want to go forward with the adoption. I like and agree with the idea of informed consent but it starts to feel kind of gross …like the kid is a used car or something. I agree with another commenter who said that finding a parent for the child rather than a child for the parent would be a better idea. Presumably that all gets discussed during matching but the whole child welfare system as a whole treats children like commodities rather than humans. It’s sad. And going abroad is fraught with potential issues. You’ll know even less and have less time with the child. Add in the corruption of adoption tourism economies and it’s a perfect recipe for disaster. I am so happy Sabrina had a happy ending.
Love your story. It's nice to know that you have made a difference in children's lives.
Thank you for sharing! Totally agree and it was interesting to hear from the perspective of someone who has been through the adoption process.
Apparently “Frank Foundation” ran by a Russian immigrant named Nina Kostina and faced similar complaints during the time they were in business. Before the American psychologist’s diagnosis the child was already diagnosed as oligophrenic (translated as mental retardation) back in Russia according the her papers but that information was withheld from adaptive parents until the adaptation. It’s not a secret that those agencies sometimes getting paid by parents to arrange an adaptation for their kids to give them better future in the western countries. I find it very odd the owner of the agency personally goes to Russia and brings back Sabrina to America and manage to arrange another adoption for her. According to her FB account Sabrina already have some relatives from both her mother and father’s side. So it makes me wonder why they had put her in the orphanage in the first place. That being so, people should be diligent and search everything before getting emotional and rushing into making a decision
Usually the things like psychiatric diseases appear during young adult years, kind of hard to tell without family history.
@ namastenurse Wow great comment. It really would be great to find a parent for a child vs a child for a parent.
This analysis was inspirational and appreciated. So glad Sabrina got a second chance and was not a throw away person.
As an adoptee, I was aware of my adoptive mother's consistent disappointment in me. She didn't get what she wanted. She dreamed of getting some perfect little Shirley Temple but instead she got me. I never wanted to be adopted. When I was 11 she told me she was thinking of putting me in foster care. I also found pamphlets and brochures for boarding schools laying around the house. Sometimes adoptive parents get buyer's remorse and then try to unload the kid. I think that's what happened in Sabrina's case. FTR, I was never violent nor did I ever threaten anyone. The adoption industry promotes adoption as a beautiful thing. It's not always beautiful, Sometimes it's just horrible.
Sabrina might not have either
Yep. My adoptive mom used to tell me that she spent 15k on a baby and “got a fat one”
@@lynn2574....How awful! I'm so sorry 😞
That's horrible. I am sorry. I hope you had other, kind and supportive people in your life. I hope you got counseling. My good wishes to you.
Wow. ❤
Wow that’s pretty cruel to abandon an already orphaned child like a defective product. Sabrina seems to have thrived in another home and I think that says it all.
You should read - "The Child Exchange". It was a Reuters Investigation from a few years ago. Amazing how little oversight there is with overseas adoptions, and how many people try to "rehome" their children. Reading the stories are very sad, but it seems like a lot of parents aren't given all the information at adoption, but so sad for the children.
There really should be classes for potential adoptive parents to discuss realistic expectations. I know that there are so many more children available for adoption than there are people willing to adopt so perhaps adoption agencies will take anyone they can get who are open to adoption. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean some education couldn't be given. Most people don't know how difficult an adjustment adoption is for both the adopter and the adoptee. It's not like the fairy tale match ups from Hallmark Channel.
You dont adopt two children from a former soviet country and expect them too be perfect little angles.
It seems like the “parents” didn’t get the feeling they wanted from Sabrina so they came up with a way to send her back. It’s a sad thing, that there are people who treat children like their supply of happiness, and if they aren’t making you feel good about yourself they aren’t worth takin care of. I’m glad Sabrina has a family of her own now, hopefully one of unconditional love.
The mom sounds like a manipulative NARCISSIST to me. Although I am not qualified to diagnose....just speculating 🌵🌵🌵
@@thereal4113 yeah she didn’t seem emotionally mature enough to take on an older child.
'people who treat children like their supply of happiness'. So true...
I adopted my daughter when her mother passed away when she was 9. I had known her before hand and so I knew what I was getting into, she had been given up at birth by her mother, then adopted then orphaned. She was very withdrawn and reserved before we got her, but I had promised her mother before she passed I would be her mum. I have two boys the same age so I think my experience of being a mum and knew how challenging it could be, it made it less overwhelming. After getting my daughter,I knew that I owed this beautiful girl all that I could give. It was rough at first, as her grief was heartbreaking to watch and she became more withdrawn for a time. But with love, attention, positive re enforcement , telling her that she can achieve anything and that she was an amazing child, this little sad, withdrawn and sulky child has bloomed into the brightest flower you have ever seen. She is 19 now, passed high school, has a boyfriend, friends, a car, saving money, has won numerous awards for leadership, was in the running for prefect at school, has started an apprenticeship and is a wonderful well rounded young woman that I’m
Incredibly proud of. You don’t give up on kids. As adults we have had our childhood, it’s our responsibly to protect and help raise those younger than us. I do not have any regrets and I love her to death. These parents just did not know what they were doing! This poor girl had her world turned up side down! How damaging for this poor girl. I’m so glad that she is doing so well these days.
Probably 10 years ago (maybe more) a woman stuck her adopted child on a plane back to Russia with a note saying "I no longer wish to care for this child" That caused a whole international issue and Russia closed off adoptions to the US.Torry-Ann Hansen
Yup. People should adoptive from there own country if they can first.
Seriously??? That is mind blowing in callousness
@@iciajay6891 someone willing to return the child they adopted like that shouldn't adopt at all, locally or internationally
I remember that case. There was even a Law and Order episode about that story. I think it was about 11 years ago.
An american court ordered her to pay Child support to Rússia because legally he is still her Son.
Your yellow shirt match to Sabrina’s yellow shirt is a kind show of support. I am so glad that Sabrina was given a good home eventually, was able to do good work for others in need, fall in love and make a good home of her own. But those two years back in Russia must have been so painful.
",,,was she trained by the KGB?" Your droll, stealthy shade, along with your bang-on analysis keeps me coming back to your channel.
Exactly right! I've been trying to figure out how to categorize his humor and you nailed it. Thanks.
I’m so glad Sabrina is happy and healthy now.
She has a loving husband, beautiful children, and so many people that love and support her.
When her adoptive parents took her back to Russia and dumped her off like a stray animal it broke my heart.
I’m happy her life has a happy ending.
You’re the best Doctor!!!
The dark side of psychology/psychiatry is that there will always be a doctor willing to diagnose.
It's almost as if the adopting parents hadn't done any sort of research into adopting older children and the problems they might face. Children are in adoption agencies because they have had a number of bad things happen in their lives. Obviously, they either lost parents or were taken away from dangerous parents. It would be odd if they didn't have some emotional problems or act out somewhat.
Older children are often in adoption agencies for years which is not the best thing. It's up to the adoptive parents to expect there to be problems in adjustment that might take a few years. The parents should also be going to counseling to help with possible problems.
When adopting older children from abroad there are also the problems of different languages, customs, surroundings, people, and expectations. What did these adults expect?? And there is the stupidity of adopting two older children at the same time! They surely didn't use their heads when adopting and seemed to have romanticized what it would be like.
I'm glad that Sabrina has a great life and was able move on from this awful experience. She dodged the bullet with these two!
It would be interesting to know what Josh felt about his adopted parents. It seems like they just didn't like Sabrina and wanted to give he back to the pound like an unwanted puppy. And made up some lies to support themselves.
My thoughts exactly.
Josh probably only has good things to say about them. He was clearly favored and is now parroting things the parents said like him saying he was scared of her. When the truth is he probably doesn’t even remember anything from the time. He’s just heard it said so much he’s taken it as his own memories.
Yeah...I find it odd that Dr. Grande doesn't seem to even momentarily consider that the wife was a complete liar. There's no way in hell it never occurred to him.
Maybe he's been replaced by a lizard person?
@@TheRealBamboonga But the girl tried to kill their other kid and their dog and this was documented by the clinic the girl was treated at, she told the psychiatrist that if she had the opportunity that she would kill the little boy, I don't feel like the mother needed to make anything up the kid was simply just too messed up and a danger to their other kid and dog.
@@mateah83 Documents can lie. They just can't change their story as easily as people.
Also, that really *is* just something kids say. If everybody I wished death on as a kid actually died, I'd be a war criminal. *AND* the world would be without a single teacher.
She had a lot of adjustment to make, and I wonder if she might have had more success had another child not been adopted at the same time as she was (Had she even been told that Joshua would be adopted at the same time as she was?). Having another newly adopted child in the household was another change in her life to which she had to adjust. I am an adoptive mom, and I would not have tried to adopt another child at the same time that I adopted my daughter unless the other child was a biological sibling that was already known to my daughter.
Not to mention the cultural adjustments and language adjustments. I wonder if things may have been better for her as well if at least one of her adoptive parents had been Russian, or some other Slavic ethnicity? I have always said it, and I will always say it. Adopting a child from another country into a completely alien culture and a completely alien language, let alone a new family, is not a good idea. I personally think that nobody should be able to adopt a child from ANYWHERE unless at least one parent is of the same or similar background... ethnically, linguistically and culturally... as the child. Children need deep roots in order to become stable adults. Yes they need love. But love is not roots, and kids I believe need to be rooted into their heritage, not dragged away from it and cut off from it. This trend of adopting kids from overseas that began post WWII literally severs the tree from it's roots, and then we wonder why these kids have problems? Because parents of a completely different ethnic, cultural and linguistic group to a child cannot anchor that child to their roots, no matter how well meaning the parents may be. I say these things from firsthand experiences. I'm glad Putin put a stop to this nonsense with Russian kids.
When I was trying to adopt, a case came up that really bothered me. Girl was 2 1/2, adopted at birth in the US and the family had decided they no longer wanted her. Not only did they want her gone ASAP (in the next 24 hours), they wanted the new adoptive family to PAY THEM $10,000. (State law allowed up to $10,000 for the birth family to get counseling, and they were taking advantage of that law).
I can't imagine rejecting such a little child that I adopted at birth. Let alone demanding money from the new home she goes to. I was so sad for the little girl and wondered how she had been treated in the family. 😞
Hey, OP. I think I know you 😉
That story is awful. So sad.
How were they eligible for money if they weren't the birth family just the previous adopting family??
Classic narcissistic adoption, I wasnt adopted but did end up in the foster care world here in the USA, my sister and I were put in separate homes, hers was a narcissistic and abusive, many people who foster and adopt in my opinion are doing so for themselves and not the children
Money makes some people crazy
I think this applies to parenthood in general. Some want biological children to see the resemblance. The whole time they talk on how much they loved (or hated, depending on the audience they speaking to) their pregnancy, how they feel through the whole process and not only once mention the kid’s journey, their emotions and how they’re doing. It’s all about how proud they are and not how happy their children are.
Personally I adopted because I wanted to be a mommy. I don’t understand those other people.
@@renatawarec the family that took me and to sisters in, didn't receive a penny, my dad was supposed to pay child support but never did.
We already knew you were stand up guy but You've outdone yourself in this one in my opinion Dr. Grande.. I can relate heavily too this story and the thought of that little girls feeling of dread and rejection when they sent her back is honestly heartbreaking.. i will never abandon a child in need.. also, thanks for somehow making me feel more loved after watching this video 🙏🇬🇧
You obviously have a big heart. The world's needs more people like you.
If you strangled my dog and tried to chuck my kid over a railing, I'd get rid of that kid.
@@lizb4156 Allegedly. -- How do we know who is telling the truth?
@@anonymousstrangeness7348 We don't but at the end of the day they didn't want her. You don't persist if the family doesn't want her or you're gonna make more mental problems for everyone.
@@lizb4156 Yes, you're right, they didn't want her. -I'm puzzled by the whole story tho, with 2 different versions of events. It feels like there is more to the story, that we will never know ?
I am so very thankful that I was blessed with adoptive parents who loved me (and still do). This story breaks my heart!
I’m very pleased for you and your parents. I hope you understand the sacrifices your parents made. They have done a good job and you must be a good, respectful daughter.
I’m so glad you found 💕 love, I loved your comment!! Ignore the person who sent you the previous comment!! 🥸
@@touche8223 That Dorothy was triggery for sure to me. I'm not sure why.
"A mental health diagnosis is not designed to identify people that others should avoid."
Thank you.
No truer words have ever been spoken
Sounds like those people that first had Sabrina expected love from day one, a three year old is more needy towards his parents than a nine year old girl. I guess they also expected a lot of grattitude. Maybe the boy didn't like sharing but at that age no child does. I suspect Sabrina was already aware that adults can hurt you, if you get attached to much. About dumping her in Russia, it's clear they didn't know the first thing what being a parent really means and in the end for Sabrina it was a blessing in disguise. When you get sent to so many clinicians it's clear they were looking for a answer to fit their narrative. Lucky for her she found another couple that did want her. Rules are sometimes stricter for re-housing dogs than they are children. Bye all.
They always want gratitude. The whole notion of adopting children from overseas is based on the idea that the adoptive parents are the "saviours", and that the children would be ever grateful for being "saved". It's sick. I hate inter-country adoption.
As a mental health professional myself I was horrified watching this story on tv. I was so glad she had a good life; she was so fortunate to have found a family who gave her the chance she deserved. I completely agree with Dr Grande on this one!!!
How much of a threat can a 9 year old girl be? Some friends of mine took care of a grand-daughter for a year or so while her mother was in the military. The daughter was 8 at the time. She became a real pain for them. She'd sometimes walk up to one of them or a visiting relative, hug their legs and then urinate on their legs and feet. One time the grand-mother found her out in the yard with a butcher knife in hand, stabbing a soda can. When she asked what she was doing, the 8 year old responded 'I'm practicing killing you'. That day they put a lock on the inside of their bedroom door, afraid the little girl would sneak in while they were asleep and try to stab them. They took her in for counseling sessions regularly from then on. Thankfully, she seemed to recover from what ever darkness she was dealing with. Now in her late teens and from what I know, a normal decent teen now.
Agree - there are real dangers from children!
Dr Grande is naive to think that a child can’t pose a significant threat.
I haven’t seen violent kids or kids that murder
@@jborrego2406 maybe you haven't seen many but you have heard of school shootings, right? Done by schoolchildren. Right?
This is actually a terrifying story. What did the grandparents do besides lock their door? Did they hide sharp objects? My God, did they beg you to help take care of her?
@@BarnaliD Hiding sharp objects would probably have been difficult for them, since their house is full of knives, swords etc. They just started taking her to a therapist and over time she overcame whatever darkness was in her mind.
Returning a defective child? That must be a strange day for the customer service desk.
"but we have the receipt..."
@@TJDious You comment is awesome!
Its the ultimate Karen boss move.
@@matthallett4126 ! :)
They got two for the price of one. They returned the one that didn't 'fit.'
I remember this on 48 Hours. I feel like ultimately the adopting couple had their own hidden demons that should have been known before the process. The mother clearly had an abnormal need for attention and for someone to pour all their affection into her. When she decided Joshua was the ‘more deserving’ of the two Sabrina’s days were numbered. I am happy that the adoption person in Russia didn’t just let her rot there and actively kept looking for another family for her. Im so happy she’s doing well now. I hope the mom is finished adopting kids. She should’ve been barred from another after what she did to Sabrina.
Dr. Grande, don’t think we don’t notice you adding new cacti and cactus related decor to your background. 😉 🌵
Sooner or later, they’re going to take over
Very interesting video and the analysis at the end was very compassionate and understanding. Get the feeling, without going into details, that when Sabrina arrived in the US, she had, as you said, adjustment problems and this may have been more than the parents wanted to deal with since she came from such a dreadful background. As a result, they simply wanted to get rid of her rather than put in the time an energy to aid the girl.
Agree. How can you return your child?
I moved across the country as an adult and had a hard time adjusting I couldn’t imagine a child who already had abandonment issues and had to adjust to a totally different culture and language.
Try living with someone in your home, who is capable of violence to a young child or a pet, before you judge others.
A lot of children who've been given up by their parents are very traumatized which can lead to severe behavioral issues. Adopting a child straight away without fostering first is a recipe for disaster.
I remember this case. At the time I felt like the people returned her because they didn’t have the capacity to endure her problems. They bought something defective so they returned it. They wanted the beautiful little girl in the photos to be their perfect little angel and they couldn’t fathom why she was so difficult when they gave her everything they thought she would want. I wonder if they ever asked her what she wanted? What were her fears? What did she hope for? There is some truth that children adopted from Russia, China (anywhere orphans were a burden and lived in substandard conditions) had emotional/mental/personality disorders. How could they not? Trauma takes its toll regardless of expectations. But when you’re a parent it’s your job to take care of your children, no matter what. I wonder what ever happened to Joshua.
Appaz he has been convicted of domestic violence offenses as an adult. No surprise 2 people who returned a child like a defective wii raised an abusive son.
My mom lived in orphanage in 80s in Russia, and that's just not the place to be for children, there're dangers from other children and from teachers, both mentally and physically, plus facts that children get there not because of good circumstances, I hate such stories, becasue those "parents" wanted to make themselves heroes without single trouble and have an angel child, not caring a second about what she needed in her life.
Did the son become an abusive man? Do you know that?
That poor girl was let down by her adopted family, mental health clinicals, but too be fair, they were given the wrong information by the "mother ". Im so pleased she now has a good life. Thank you Dr Grande Great analysis and topic
She was a psychopath. She tried to kill her adopted brother. Stop making excuses for her evil behavior
@@jjgreen5206 why did the mother tell her what to say, too the clinicals ?????
@@jjgreen5206 did you listen to Dr Grande, it would appear you didn't.
@@jjgreen5206 Did you even watch the video? Evil behaviour is adopting then dumping a human child like they were an unwanted puppy. She was never diagnosed with anything related to psychopathy and she grew up to be a perfectly functioning member of society after being raised by a decent family. The original 'mother' clearly exaggerated behavioural issues to justify getting rid of her because she only bonded with the boy.
@@jjgreen5206 I would argue the adoptive mother was ill and abusing her adoptive children. If an adult tells and try's to convince a child she was trying to commit murder is a sign of a deeply disturbed person. And Psychopaths are not evil. There is no such thing as evil.
Why force a square peg in a round hole. Not every child be just with any parent.
I was hoping you would do a video on this. Sabrina really showed how resilient she really is. She’s amazing!!
Great video Dr Grande!!!
Oh yeah wow, I remember this wild case! Looking forward to Dr Grande’s speculated psychological breakdown. Alohas everyone and have a blessed day. 🤙🏻
Speculative* lol
We are literally "programmed" to achieve a higher education, bachelor degrees, masters, phd's yet there are no parenting handbooks???
I observed a mom and her son at the playground. Her son could not navigate the monkey bars at the same level as some other children.
Instead of offering words of encouragement she announced that her son was an "accident waiting to happen"
Parents are not aware of the lasting effect a comment has on their children.
Maybe the adopted child did not live up to the parents expectations.
Thank you Dr. Grande.
Good points.
Your absolutely right word can make or break a person yet alone a tender child. However, there is a book that teaches you how to raise your children its the "holy scriptures" what most people like to call bible.
I mean there are a lot of parenting books and classes, most people just don't bother to engage with it
Of course there aren’t. Because people are all different and what may work for you may not work for others. That’s why is always good to talk to a therapist who can help you navigate through rough times.
@@nikkinicole5216 get out of here with that shit lmfao the old testament literally says you can m*rder your child if they aren’t righteous…
I raised a RAD kid from age 2 to adulthood. It took years to find the right kind of counselors for him. I was persistent. He is an adult and I would consider very mentally healthy after years of no conscious. It is possible but it requires more than you can imagine to get the right kind of mental health care. I know of a counselor who took a child back....it's just that hard. I used to say I would not do it again for a million dollars but glad I followed through completely.
I will add that I saw plenty of these kids who had no problem harming other people.
I don't agree with you on this one. I lived it. dangerous, lying, deceptions. it was a way of life.
You're in the very unique position of understanding why a couple counselors could find the issues, one would say she's "impeccably behaved" (red flag), why the orphanage would have her in a special ward in the first, why the Parents couldn't handle the stress without a bond, but Sabrina could still turn out well enough unmedicated without continued therapeutic services to be a married parent herself. I'm sorry for everyone involved whole experience. RAD is one of the most life changing experiences, only a small group will truly understand and harsh judgment will still be issued. The Parents were brave to speak up back then when the trauma of early life experiences and post adoption depression wasn't discussed or well known. I wished Dr. Grande would've picked up on that but didn't expect it as clinicians have to be particularly motivated to work in that field. I'm so glad you found one of the rare great ones for your child.
What does "years of no conscious" mean? Was he in a coma for years? Catatonic? I don’t see how a child could be unconscious for years without being in some sort of long-term care facility.
@@DaveTexas "No conscious" in this case means "no sense of right or wrong". We adopted a boy with RAD and can certainly relate to Connie Thingstad. He turned out to be a reasonable adult but my wife has PTSD on account of it.
Are you saying that she probably wasn't a threat to Joshua, but even if she was a threat to Joshua, the parents should've just "kept on eye on her" until he was old enough to defend himself? Are you considering Joshua's mental health here if he had to grow up in that environment? I'm sure she probably wasn't dangerous, but if she was how is separating the children overreacting?
👏👏👏👏
⭐️ That’s exactly what I was thinking!
Those statements by Dr Grande are ignorant and frankly, ridiculous.
It was so sad about this little girl...to be abandoned twice as a child. However, to see her survive and thrive with another family was a blessing. 3x the charm...
And, now she's a wife and mother .. healthy mentally and emotionally. I love happy endings
It seems like when we operate by fear we can become seriously paralysed and react rather than become pro active.When you first recounted the story, I felt compassion for the parents but eventually the real picture emerged and I realized they acted hastily.Perhaps in later years they regretted the decision to take the young girl back to Russia
I'm so glad there were others who intervened She has built a positive productive life. Thank you Dr Grande.
There is no better time than now for a rational voice talking about interesting and maybe personally relevant issues. Thank you Dr. Grande!
Ride on Dr. Todd, thank you for taking the time to be a voice to wisdom.
The parents must be intellectually challenged not to realise adopting a child of that age, from a foreign country, would be fraught with issues. My brother and I regularly tried to seriously harm each other when we were young, I once stuck a fork in his head (which he still complains about 45 years later 🙄), luckily neither of us were adopted so my parents couldn't return us. The poor girl, the fault here lies with the adoptive parents, who didn't know how to parent.
It is more of a problem that people like them are allowed to adopt an older child without knowing what the struggles, challenges of this can be. They went into the adoption with rose tinted glasses, and those were clearly ripped off when the attachment issues came to light, which explain aggression, stealing, defiance…. It’s not for the faint hearted to adopt, especially not n older child or two at the same time!…
Look up “rage” and see how parents who adopt must know about this.
😅
Were you and your brother adopted from other countries?
Blaming the parents? Of course
I knew a similar situation in which an older sibling was jealous of a younger one. Eventually, the older one had to be removed from the home , too. Joshua was terrified of her so I believe Sabrina did attack him. As an adult, she admitted lying about hearing voices and wanting to kill her brother which would've affected her diagnosis.
Her parents spent years trying to help her to no avail and Joshua was suffering under that environment. Best thing to do was remove her from the home. Everyone thrived afterwards including Sabrina with her new adoptive parents.
Looks like those "parents" did Sabrina a favour by rejecting her. Sounds like they or, at least, the mother was projecting weird behaviour onto a little girl. Sabrina now looks happy, stable and well with good life, thank goodness.
Thanks, Doc.
Sending her back saved her life.those people just didn't want her or like her.thank God she found new parents. It soons like crystal made up a lot of stories.
@@renatawarec Makes me wonder how her son turned out.
@@zero_bs_tolerance8646 im sure somewhat screwed up but they loved him
@@renatawarec Let's hope for the best. Merry Christmas, dear.
God absolutely knew what was best for her. She is a beautiful soul with a loving husband and gorgeous children.
You have so much compassion for this little 9 yr old girl. Your explanation of her behavior is what any child wants from an adult. Not thrown away because your difficult. I was difficult and I know my mother complained about me to her friends, some were very outspoken to me about it. I wasn’t happy as a young girl with our family situation plus I know my mother very much favored my sister and my brother was her precious baby boy all his life. She finally took me to counseling WITH HER because she could tell she was loosing me, and she was. Counseling helped at the time. Every child wants to feel their parent cares about them and hopefully loves them. Not just tossed out. Good job Dr Grande!! Good Job! I love your analysis here! ❤️
I can't say how happy I am to hear Sabrina found a good life after what she went through.
Whew, I thoguht it was going to end bad. Everything Dr. Grande said is correct. I feel like I need to go adapt a child as well and let them know that they are worthy. That was terrible 😢
Having (and raising) a child, is the biggest responsibility one could ever have. Not prepared for this responsibility? Then don’t have one.
True. Although I find that the majority of people aren’t prepared or aren’t even fully aware of how all-consuming and challenging becoming a parent can be because, well, how *could* they be prepared?? Most people don’t take any parenting classes and don’t even babysit a friend’s child prior to having a baby themselves. I wish society encouraged people more to actually do certain things like parenting classes before even deciding to get pregnant or applying for adoption.
The problem is the people who are usually the least prepared for the responsibility, firmly believe that they are, and their kids suffer for it for the rest of their lives.
Tell that to all the baby mamas who do it to get on the dole and section 8. Chicago, as one example is just getting worse because of it. Huge gangs of teens flooding and causing chaos downtown now.
At least they didn't kill her ... once they realized they didn't love her they handled this as best they could.
OR don't adopt TWO of them!
Hi Dr. Grande, ❤️ This case was really intriguing and concerning , and your explanation helps to make sense of what happened here. - I just ordered your book, and I can't wait to read it. Yellow is a great color for you, and I like the cactus arrangement.
And the light string😁
I love the brick. And the cactus color against that reddish brown brick too. Complimentary colors but not so contrasty.
I worked on failing adoptions years ago. While I don't like to blame parents for poor adult decisions. In too many of the cases I worked on, the problem was resentment from one or both adoptive parents.
It is sickening to see adults treat adopted pets that way, it is even worse when you see adults do this to children.
P.S. for what it is worth, all but one of the cases I worked on were white American families adopting white children. Not that race matter, the point is, there weren't any cultural, social, or racial stressors or differences that could account fir some of the conflict. Just children with minor issues that were exacerbated by really poor parenting.
@@TheReclusiveGamer correlation is not causation
@@TheReclusiveGamer well, that's your choice. Just like there is no diagnosis that excuses bad behavior, once you are an adult, you don't get to blame your childhood for your adulthood. You know better, you do better.... or you choose not to do better. In any case, that's on you.
I was adopted from birth (3months old) my adoptive family is very very dysfunctional and controlling, now im 50 and realize that my mother has narcisstic personality disorder, and could never get over the fact that she could bare no children and done lots of projecting as I grew up, my adopted brother who is three year's younger was their golden child and could do no wrong, i had a nightmarish childhood, and believed I was an awful human being, disgusting and unloveable, only during my 40a did I find out about narcissistic personality disorder and realised it was exactly my mother (and an enabling father who done everything she said, and a goldenchild brother)
Do I have a story to tell, I left home at 18, stupidly came back at 28 when i had my first child, during that time I developed a crippling addiction(which I'm still in treatment for) and many other problems, she wanted to control me, I would never let her, I've always been defiant and freewilled, she hates me, but pretends to love me for the sake of her good name, she's turned people against me and jeopardized my growth mentality and has tried physically too (why don't you cut your hair, or wear this or that) she'd always have rages and times when she'd scream at me telling me I'm so awful and that I'd send her to bedlam (home for the mentally insane) or she'd drink a bottle of gin and tell me shes had enough of me and say she doesnt want to live anymore, then she'd disappear for the whole day, id be so scared as a small child thinking my mummy wants to die because of me, I must be so awful, id go looking for her, but never finding her. Today she has no clue how bad this has all affected me, and still believes I should be forever grateful for her.
I'm in therapy and have been for a while, I have an amazing therapist, and I'm starting to heal these wounds.
Just thought I'd share a tiny
piece of my story 💗💗
@@LouLou-ue3dz it hurts.. I know. My biological mother was a histrionic narcissist. AND, what we have in common, aside from crappy moms, is survival! You have survived. Focus on the good stuff. I can promise you, the same thing happens with biological parents and children. There are some parents who should not be parents AND some kids are difficult at best.
There is a difference between holding someone responsible for their choices, and blaming them for our own. You seem to get the nuance. Good! That is a helluva good achievement!
I know a woman who is the oldest of 11 children, her mother doted on some and was cruel to others. To this day, the mother is in her 80s and still scapegoats my friend. For years her siblings blamed her. But, as the children are now all adults with children. Of their own, they now see their mom for the manipulative person she is.
@@TheReclusiveGamer bingo! You get it. It sucks. AND.... you can make good memories and "collect" a good family among true friends and their families. You can have closeness with healthier people. Yes. You can grieve the past, but don't pitch a tent and live there.
Dr. Todd Grande, I think your analysis on this case is right on target. As someone that was adopted at an older age & from a different country, I can relate to some of the complexities and dynamics of this case. I'm glad there was ultimately a happy ending. I was once in a "full circle" group with parents that had given up their child for adoption, those that had been adopted, and those that had adopted children. If there are other groups around like this, I would recommend them. I know it really helped me, but then again it could have been this particular peaceful group?!
Thank you Dr Grande. You stated that people with a mental illness should be shown compassion, NOT abandonment. 20 years ago, I received electric shock therapy for the treatment of my severe case of Major Depressive Disorder. My doctor insisted on this treatment since no medication could help me. After 7 sessions of ECT, I felt much better. My depression lifted significantly. What did my wife do? She said that I was a pathetic loser, filed for divorce, and separated me from my two young children. This put me right back into a psychiatric facility. I relapsed back into a major depression. There are cold, evil people in this world and unfortunately I married one. Thanks for your support of folks who SUFFER from mental illness.
What treatment have you received since then? Have you gotten better?
Crystal wanted the “perfect Christmas card” family with very little effort. Taking care of children is extremely difficult. Taking in two adopted children at the same time takes dedication and preparation on the struggles of doing so. There needs to be unconditional love and support with all children as well as structure and age appropriate boundaries. I’m not the perfect mum, believe me, but my husband and I put our all into raising our children from day one. We never had to yell at them or ground them. It was difficult, to put it mildly, at times but they have by the grace of God turned out fabulous. In their 20’s now and still come home for dinner often on their way home or pop in to say hello.
Merry Christmas to you and your family. Thank you for a year of learning from you. You helped me get through the pandemic lockdown. March 2020 started our lockdown. Blessings
That's so sad! It upsetting when people abandon kids. 🥺 I am glad the adoption agency owner found her and got her out of the mental health facility and found her a caring family. 💗
The adoption agency lied about the girl's mental state before the adoption so they were not good people.
Did anyone ever interview Joshua and ask if he had any memories of Sabrina trying to hurt him?
Dr Grande, you're not only one of the most hardworking psychologist ever, but you even managed to put on Christmas lights, as well as an awesome amount of snarkiness usually.Thank you for your brilliant work 💐🌵
Thanks for cranking good stuff out at a mad pace. Super enjoyable and insightful videos
There needs to be adoption reform and we need to reframe how we look at adoption. It shouldn't be looking for a child for parents, it should be looking for parents for a child. Adoption frames itself mostly around the adoptive parents and not the adoptee. We need to change that.
Adoption needs desperate reform, which if the past is any indication, will never ever happen. The system has and always will be based around the needs, rights and wants of the parents, because at the end of the day, children are just another commodity to be bought and sold on the market.
@@TheFriendlyAntinatalist Not in Britain, it's all about the child, you can't even adopt if you smoke.
It shouldn't happen at all. Why do people even want to adopt people? That girl was 9, only a few years till adulthood, she didn't need to be adopted.
@@lizb4156 To fulfill the fantasy of having the perfect nuclear family. People treat adoption like its an alternative to infertility. Which is one of the worst reasons to adopt because the adoptive parents project the idea of their bio child onto the adoptee. Which invokes lower self esteem because they will never be the same as their potential biological child. There's also this "savior" mentality where people adopt kids, especially those from other countries and races, to feel better about themselves and seem like a good person to the public. Another thing that's damaging to the adoptee because they're being objectified as some sort of status symbol.
Most couples want a healthy newborn baby, but there aren't a lot of babies to go around. They don't want to adopt older kids because they don't want to deal with their trauma, disabilities, and mental health issues. The easiest way to adopt a newborn baby is via private adoption. However, there are a lot of sketchy things going on within private domestic infant adoption like targeting poor low income expectant mothers. Then taking advantage of their crisis in order to sell a newborn baby to a wealthy infertile couple. Infants cost $20k to $50k each, and the majority of it goes to the agency and lawyers. The expectant birthmom could get their medical expenses during that time paid for, but if she backs out, they will cut assistance. They will try to convince her to stay by threatening to make her pay for the medical expenses while she was pregnant.
In places where private adoption is banned, less than 10 infants are put up for adoption. The government will give single moms social welfare assistance so they can keep their babies and be able to parent them. Instead of making them make a choose between homelessness, and starvation vs giving up baby for adoption just so you can have a place to sleep at night.
@@gogetyourgun1490 I think there's something wrong with people needing children either natural ones or adopted ones and especially adopted ones. Something's lacking in them. They're not a need they're a want for bored people or they think it'll stop boredom. They want some chaos. I really don't think men care if they have kids or not. Women just want a living doll for the sake of it.
Dr. Grande, thank you for all you put in to what you put out to us!
People have no idea how abused and traumatized children are in these orphanages in Russia snd the former Soviet Union.
I am speaking from personal knowledge.
It is easy to look in from the outside at these families snd judge the parents. The backgrounds of many of these children are kept from adoptive parents. Children that have been institutionalized and abused in every way year after year - some for their entire life- are more than most families can cope with. Unfortunately her story is very common among adoptive parents with children from the former Soviet Union.
I doubt many couples could live under the fear and strain of a child threatening to kill them, their other children or their pets. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made to protect the other members of the family.
What does surprise me about this story is that this child was left behind because once she was adopted and came to America she was an American citizenship and had rights, though I know of several children who were returned to their orphanages.
Another unknown part of adoption stories is that adoption is a two way street. Children can and sometimes do reject their adoptive families and will even find other families that they fit in with better. There are many parts to these stories that are not generally known or reported..
I would suggest anyone interested in this topic do a deep dive into what happens to institutionalized children in Russia and the former Soviet Union. I have been there. I have seen it. The American mental health field is totally unaware of what these children have been through and how difficult this is for all concerned.
You are thoughtful and fair and agree with you. There are too many people that seem to want some adulation from the crowd that often agrees with Dr. Grande. I’m not sure he was fair to the adoptive parents. I have had first hand expierience with an adoptive child who lied and made up all kinds of stories at school and on the bus,my own daughter didn’t know what to make of. This child falsely accused her adoptive father of awful things. She and her siblings caused extreme chaos between the parents. The parents were broken and eventually divorced and the father died of cancer in a few years.I have known 4 families who adopted children and did their very best but the children were so traumatized that no normal parent much less all the supportive services could ever make these kids into a ordinary child again. You must be extraordinarily strong minded to adopt. Don’t do it unless are willing to sacrifice everything. Most of us have no idea how to help these children,much as we wish we could.
I agree with both of you. First hand experience with RAD kids.
Dr Grande is naive to say that a 9 year old isn’t something to be afraid of.
You and I both know what we are talking about. No therapist can truly diagnose these children after a few visits
Yes, such abused and traumatized children have many personality disorders. They are bier convincing liars. Lying is a survival technique they master at the orphanage. When punishment and discipline takes the form of what is considered to be torture, you learn to lie. My son told me about punishments at I had read were used in Gulags. Gulag style punishments used on young children!
What child could come out of years of tremendous abuse unscarred and then fit into a strange culture, an unrelated family, a new language, new food, new school-- all simultaneously without acting out in some way? What adult could make a smooth transition after all that?
I found our school district no help despite several psychological educational evaluations that all said our children need special education placement. The school would rather pay a lawyer to fight us rather than follow the recommended educational plan their own experts said our kids needed. We fought and spent a lot of money to get them what they were entitled to. That set us back two years. For two years they sat in a classroom without the special education accommodation they desperately needed.
How much of a threat can a young child really be? A very serious threat that outsiders will not see or believe, because these terrifying behaviors come out in the home, and are usually directed at the mother figure.
I think this doctor's analysis of this story is shallow and uninformed. Please , talk to some real adoptive parents-- like the person who responded to my comment, and see how complicated these situations can be.
For some children the intimacy of a family unit to too much after years of institutional neglect. They cannot receive love. They are too raw with fear and emotion . And remember, most families are totally in the dark about the child's past, and the child for many reasons, does not want to talk about it, Remember for the first few years they might not even have the words to express themselves as they don't speak English when they arrive here.
Could you go to bed every night in your once safe home, fearing for your life every night? How would you cope with your pets being killed, or being told that your house would be set off fire when your family slept? What would you do if your money disappeared, your computers were missing? Your other children were being terrorized? Children at school were being suckered punched with no warning? How would you feel if your child was a devil all day until your spouse came home and then was loving and affectionate to your spouse, so your spouse thinks YOU are the problem?
This simplistic analysis of this family in this video shows that most therapists have no idea of what has really happened to these children, nor do they understand the impact that abuse had on the adoptive family or society they are adopted into.
I had to comment on this video and this story because there is MUCH MORE going on in these situations and deeper research needs to be done on the effect of institutional abuse, which includes long term sexual abuse, and exploitation, malnutrition , educational neglect, lack of contact and conversation with adults, and even torture as punishment. These are the typical experiences of children who have lived in the orphanage in the former Soviet Union.
To make matters even worse, the orphanages do not tell you the truth about the children's history or background. There is a lot of money at stake for them. There are people along the entire process who befit financially in the orphanage system. A prospective parent might not choose a child who had been a year in a Russian psychiatric hospital-- if they knew. They might not feel they could handle such a child. Could you? Be honest, what would you do if you found you literally brought a psychopath into your home? How would you feel if your child hurt or preyed on another child in your neighborhood or family? What would you do if you discovered your beautiful , sweet looking child was capable of doing terrible things to other children that they themselves experienced an a frequent basis ? Would you feel responsible to protect those around you from harm?
Don't judge these parents without understanding more about how all concerned are impacted.
@@kwesley73 nor was he fair. I love kids. One day a father and his 7 year old son came to our door. They wanted a place to put a trailer. Dad wanted also to hire a nanny. Hmmm that was strange. Out here in the north of Canada on a farm. The boy seemed precious and the father broken. My husband wasn’t home so they came back. Before the boy got in the door he asked me “will you be my friend?” Well of coarse! Why not? And l asked”why didn’t you bring your mom too?” The father began to cry and told me the tragic story of how his wife had committed suicide and tried to take the boy with her. That was just 3 months prior. After praying about it we suggested the boy stay with us during the week while his dad was trucking. The dad was so grateful and l fell in love with the child. We never had a problem with him.We had an empty nest. We enrolled him at school and soon my friend who was the bus driver came to tell me there was trouble on the bus and she thought he was overacting to being teased. She nearly lost my friendship because she could not and would not care about this child. Then came strange calls from the school, but they would not speak to me. They wanted the father. I now know I was pretty naive. The dad meant well but was an alcoholic. The boy had odd behaviour and was afraid to use the toilet. A psychiatrist was called in which l thought couldn’t hurt. We had the boy for one school year and it seemed to me no one cared about him except us. The dad decided to move at the end of the school year but promised to bring the boy over for supper once a week. He didn’t. I was deeply sad and 18 years later I still am. The father rejected his own son after a few years. The son got into petty trouble and later we heard he was in juvenile detention 500 miles away. I don’t know what happened next. I still grieve over that child. If I grieve can you imagine how God grieves for these children? I did what I could. I will never forget him. So people tell me should I have refused to take him into my home??? I simply asked myself what would Jesus do? Was I prepared or experienced? NO. Every case is different. Every heart unique. Let’s not waste our energy arguing too much but do something kind for someone when you can.
@@LindaMcnally l have to applaud you. I feel your pain. I feel pain for the children. I feel for adoptive parents. This world is the devils workshop. Evil is coming out of every nook and cranny. However there actually still are good people like you and all we can do is our best and pray for Gods intervention. Miracles do happen and I think the girl in Dr. Grandes story was one of them. But this time the blasé Dr. stepped in it. I don’t think it will bother him that much either. I wish you and yours a happy Christmas,from our locked down area of the world.
Had a close family friend adopt from Russia the kids were toddlers even at that age they grew to have severe development issues they never even considered "returning" them.
"I believe the adopted mother was jealous of Sabrina." It's apparent Sabrina looks at everything as a challenge rather than a failure.
I totally agree
Maybe her husband was finding this young lady in his house too much temptation. Time for mommy to start making up lies.
@@renatawarec The adopted mother knew there was going to be another woman in the house. That's probably why she didn't want another adopted daughter.
Literally flying her back to Russia and saying ‘deuces’? Damn, that’s cold. At least there didn’t seem to be any love lost on either side.
No it's not, why should they persist with someone they dont want or like? You'd make things worse forcing yourselves and end up with major resentment on both sides.
@@lizb4156 yeah but I doubt that was the established channel or way to resolve this.
@@esteemedmortal5917 The best thing to do was take her back where tbey got her from. If they legally adopted her she'd be entitled to an inheritance and stuff if they died and they'd be liable for her healthcare etc. They must have had to return her to stop being classed as her legal parents. No one has to have someone they don't want.
I agree. You adopt a child, that's your child. They adopted two, and kept the one they wanted. Like a test drive. It's Russia, who's going to care? (j/k)
@@LDiamondz They just didn't want the girl to kill the boy and dog. You find something wrong with that ?
Oh I like the bright yellow shirt!!!
My eyes... lol!!
It gave me chills to hear the first update on Sabrina. Poor girl. I am so happy that she is happy. Amazing and resilient girl.
Amazing story of resilience. It breaks my heart to pieces to know that Sabrina was rejected not once but twice at such a young age. This shouldn’t happen to any child, yet it happens all the time.
I am glad that life worked out for her the way it did.
Thank you for the thoughtful analysis Dr. Grande.❤️
How's the book Harm Reduction, Rejane? You know, you can already pre-order his next book 'The Psychology of Notorious Church Killers' and he's also been writing a book about narcissism called 'Narcissistic husband' It's been written with a student from him called Carol Kirby. It's not certain when this book will be released.
@@pocoeagle2 Oh wow Ben, thank you for the updates!😃 I will definitely pre order, it sounds so interesting.
I am really enjoying the book, today I was so busy with Christmas preparations that I didn’t have enough time to read. I will try to catch up before bed.
How about you? Did you start reading yet?
@@rejaneoliveira5019 No, not yet:-) and good luck with the preparations 😃
@@pocoeagle2 Oh ok, well the wait will be worthwhile.😉
Cultural understanding, informed background checks would be helpful by taking some courses in parenting.
This poor girl was rejected and displaced constantly throughout the first decade of her life. It's astounding and inspiring that she was able to make a full recovery in the face of such profound repudiation.
Yes
Agreed!
I bust out laughing when you said was she an agent in the KGB? 😂
I'm so happy that Sabrina is doing so good now. She has a wonderful family now.
“Just remember you tried to kill him “ would anyone really have to be reminded? Sociopathy? maybe the adoptive mother. Dr Grande you are right on about the child’s need for attention urging her on to lie about herself . I am so glad she was found by a better family or her life would have been pure hell there.
I'm so glad Sabrina's doing well. I hope Dr. Grande revisits the case of Jussie Smollet after he's been found guilty of faking that "hate crime." I find it unbelievable that he doubled down on his lies when his co-conspirators had confessed and implicated him.
Really, what is there to say. He lied n that was his story n he was sticking to it. We all know it was motivated by greed. I say let him go off to the beautiful land of irrelevance. He's earned it, lol
And he's going back for more!
No one needs to ever hear from Juicy Mullett again. Please
I was called all sorts of things 40 years ago. Turned out a child with C-PTSD and a narcissistic family, is a bad mix.
I loved how you presented this episode showing your great capacity for compassion towards Sabrina.
Thank you for exploring this case, I really appreciated being updated. I remember hearing about this a tiny amount as a child, but it's good to know Sabrina is doing well now!
It’s simple I see Dr. Grande I hit like 👍
I watched a show on this the other day. It had a lot of footage from when she was a child. You can see she has an uncomfortable look in her eye the entire time. It's reasonable to think she was jealous of the baby, since he was getting a mother and she didn't get that as a baby. I can just see this untrusting look in her eye. So I actually do believe she was jealous of the baby boy and acted out. However, I also think the mother had unreasonable expectations. Ultimately I think it's good to place someone in a better fitting home. I think that shouldn't be looked down on. Why would you want someone to grow up in a home they don't fit in or could harm someone because they feel at odds. It wasn't a good fit
Dr Grande, thank you for your great analysis and compassion!
dude you're pumping them out ho-lee! it gives me something to listen to and ground myself at work and when things are stressful respectively. thank you!
Personally I think the adoptive parents realized they just didn't like Sabrina, and making her out a sociopath was their way of reassuring themselves THEY were not bad people for giving her up. Regardless, the most important take away is to never ever let someone else's opinion of you define who you actually are. Here's your own little sociopath at 33, Crystal and Jesse. Great mom, great wife, great person. Looks like she's doing just fine.
So happy that she has a happy and productive life!
Great assessment of this story Dr Grande. I myself couldn't believe a parent would abandon their child like that. Fear is a strong emotion, needs to be handled carefully, not hastily. Thank God Sabrina found love and happiness in the end!
Thank you Dr. Grande for the analysis of this case 💛
I question letting the parents adopt 2 children at the same time with such different age ranges and physical/emotional needs in the first place. Of course the 3-year-old is going to seemingly get more attention and play time from their parents, while the 9-year-old has need for attention, play, and help with adjustment to a new country as well. Especially since these people had no experience being parents, could no one predict that the cute baby brother that you have to do more things for would eclipse the older sister who could "take care of herself" more but who needed time and help in adjustment in deeper ways?
I agree. Most countries wouldn't allow someone to adopt more than one child. Unless they are siblings. Especially with a 9 year old. It would take a 9 year old a lot longer to adjust, especially one from another country. After hearing this case, I think all potential adoptive parents should be screened for mental health issues and undergo counseling for 6 months to make sure They're ready to be parents.
Your dress shirts are awesome! Like the color choices. Introduced your channel to my hubby, we love your sense of humor.
Happy Holidays! Dr. G!!
Wowed by your assessment Dr. Grande! Good stuff! Appreciate you. 😊
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. I agree with your analysis. This is a terribly sad situation, I am glad there were some caring individuals looking out for her.