M&P 10MM Problem Solved?
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- čas přidán 13. 01. 2023
- I'm trying to tune my 4.6" M&P 10MM to reliably feed full powered 10MM rounds. I was having major failure to feed issues with hot loads in it's stock configuration. It seems that after changing the mag springs and the recoil spring, that I am so far having some success. Now i have to feed this beast a couple hundred more Underwood 200g hardcast before I am confident enough to carry my M&P into the woods.
- Zábava
I saw your video, and others with issues, even before I ordered my 4.6" model. Got a good deal and was willing to tinker. Following your findings, and others', I ordered a 24lb. Galloway RSA and the stronger mag springs from Springer Precision. My experience shows that these upgrades are 100% worth it and necessary. Like you, my sole purpose is being able to run "bear defense" rounds, so I tested with Underwood 200gr and 220gr, and even with the stiffer springs I had mag drop and stoppage issues. I found more info and found that poor mag geometry is also an issue. Channeling ribs on the mags begin way too late, which allows the fatter bullets to literally push out the mag catch, causing mag drops at the extreme or other failures just shy of a mag drop. I didn't want to mess around modifying M&P45 magazines (viable if you have tools and skills). Incidentally, this is why it's important to test full mags (and +1, as you would carry), not just 5 rounds in a mag, because the mag drop issue only manifests when there are more rounds - that's exactly where the mag catch windows are - at 5 rounds. So I started testing Underwood 140gr Xtreme Penetrators. I believe these are considered viable even by folks in Alaska, they just cost more than the hardcasts. I've had zero issues. I've also tested "hybrid loading" - load 10 rounds of Xtreme Penetrators (or even range ammo) first, then top off with 5 hardcasts and +1 in the pipe. Zero issues, but I ran out of all my hardcasts, waiting for the next sale. For my purposes (not griz country) I might just use it with XP's. Now that I'm over 500 rounds on it, range and Underwood, I am starting to trust it, but will keep running it. BTW, the 24lb. RSA still cycles the range ammo fine - Blazer aluminum 180gr.
For those considering an optic I absolutely recommend getting an aluminum plate from C&H and not using the included plastic plates. I did contact S&W a couple of times. Their support is worthless, because they are not authorized to acknowledge design flaws. If you send it back, they'll test-fire it with range ammo and tell you it's fine. They might replace mag springs (with same exact defective springs) or they might replace the RSA (with same exact underpowered RSA). They'll never admit the poor design of the magazine. So at the end of the day we have a great gun (chassis) that needs some tuning. And better mags. Someone at S&W should be fired or demoted for this.
By way of an update and having gone through 1100 rounds altogether, I just wanted to confirm my prior experiences. I now have a 4.6" with an optic and one with just stock sights (which I would like to replace with lower night sights).
1) 200gr and 220gr Underwood hardcasts always feed 100% reliably when only loading 5 in a mag. The issue is not with their pressure or even OAL, but specifically with how their thicker bullets interact with the magazine catch. When loading a full mag of hardcasts, it's almost 100% a guarantee of a stoppage - a mag drop and/or stove-piping, double-feeding, FTF. So my "hybrid loading" (10 Xtreme Penetrators topped with 5 hardcasts +1 in the chamber) is pretty much my default, it has always worked 100%. Mags full of Xtreme Penetrators were always 100% reliable and these are very spicy, so once again, "power" is not the culprit, this gun can take the full 10mm, especially when adequately sprung.
2) For the gun without an optic I got a 26lb. non-captured rod/spring from Springer Precision. It also runs great and still able to cycle the weaker FMJ's. On par with Galloway RSA, I just wanted 26lb., which Galloway doesn't offer yet. Non-captured is just a smidge more of a hassle to put in after a cleaning, but not a huge deal. And you can get springs of varying tension to experiment.
3) The skeletonized "dingus" blades on the stock triggers are a concern. I saw someone point out that if a pine needle or some lint get into it, it'll render the gun "permanently safe", leaving the user defenseless. So I ordered Galloway's "Morrigan" trigger shoe, which also reduces travel. A very economical upgrade that functions and looks great. As a bonus I repurposed the stock trigger shoes onto my M&P40 2.0, to replace those curved hinged trigger shoes, and yes, that works 100%. Would likely work for M&P9 2.0 as well.
4) Springer Precision "extra power magazine springs" are great. They are made from a heavier gauge wire and really hold their tension. I use an Uplula Maglula loader to make life easier. You might initially experience reduced mag capacity by one round, but that should eventually settle back into being able to fit 15. I only had that on 4 out of my 10 mags.
5) Last year, when I contacted S&W about the issues, they mailed me a replacement RSA... which came in a baggy that said "Recoil spring assembly, 45" - so right there, empirical proof of them using underpowered RSA. My next interaction with them this year was even less helpful. "Send it in". If you look online, you'll see that most people who send theirs in, get them back with only a "polished feed ramp and chamber", while some also notice that the RSA was swapped for a stronger spring quietly, without acknowledgement. They keep insisting that we shouldn't use Underwood or Buffalo Bore, despite them being SAAMI spec, and arguably "the whole point of 10mm". Rep also told me that there's a "500 round break-in period" and some nonsense about "tighter tolerances". They can't tell you the poundage of their RSA, ostensibly because the spring is captured. So it's very obvious that they are not authorized by the lawyers/accountants to do anything helpful.
I like these M&P's, but I doubt I'll ever bother with any modern S&W products. This from a guy who loves older pre-lock revolvers. As evidenced from my tinkering, I can accept some teething issues. It's the lack of honesty or transparency that I think is unacceptable. To be honest, I would've gone with a Glock 10mm, if it wasn't for its chunkier grip and my smallish hands. M&P's are handsome, but I don't really care about looks, only function.
I have the same pistol except 4". I changed the recoil spring (Gallow Precision) to a 22 lb and haven't had any more issues. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching. All seems good with mine now also. It's an awesome firearm.
Good information just bought the same model
did you change mag springs too?
Same here brother. I'm just debating buying new +5% mag springs now, lol
Did you put the m&p 45 guiderod and spring ?
I installed a Galloway Precision stainless guide rod & 22 lb recoil spring. I also installed Springer extra power mag springs in all my mags. The gun will run everything I feed it including Buffalo Bore's heaviest loads. It functions flawlessly, 1st round to last. The only thing I don't like is that with the heavy loads, it ejects the fired brass violently right back at my head. 😮😮 I have a red mark on my forehead from yesterday's range session. But hey....it's a 10mm and everything is good.
Try a 26lb. spring that Springer has. Mine functions across the power spectrum. I have a 24lb. from Galloway but had a feeling it could use even more.
I purchased my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol in early May 2022.
During my first range outing with this pistol, in its stock configuration, I experienced one FTF while shooting Underwood Ammo 10mm Auto 200 Gr FN HCL rounds.
First, I had cleaned and lubricated the pistol. My first 200 rounds of soft shooting 10mm Auto 180 Gr FN FMJ range loads all functioned fine, but I could already tell that the original stock 17-pound RSA was weak / undersprung. Next up, I loaded 15+1 rounds of the Underwood 10mm 200 Gr FN HCL. The pistol frame was being heavily battered, and my spent cases were going ballistic, flying off into the next county (or so it seemed). The FTF malfunction came on the second to last round in my magazine. I installed a Wolff Gunsprings solid stainless steel guide rod and uncaptured 24-pound recoil spring:
- Wolff's item #54624 for the M&P 45 M2.0 4.6" pistol.
At that same time, I also purchased two Wolff Gunsprings +5% stronger springs for my two original M&P 10mm Auto 15-round magazines. When I installed them, I found they were actually softer / weaker than the original stock springs. When I contacted Wolff via email, their response was an apology, an RMA, a pre-paid return shipping package, and they issued me a full refund including S&H charges. Wolff Gunsprings has very good customer service.
After that I purchased longer stronger 11-coil magazine springs from Springer Precision ($8 each, plus S&H). They've worked much better than the original stock M&P magazine springs. Initially, it was very hard to load a full 15 rounds. Today, using my UpLula, fully loading my mags is a simple feat, but fully seating the fully loaded mag with the slide closed still takes some effort.
Out of curiosity, just this past week (June2023) I tried a Galloway Precision 24-pound RSA ($36 w/ S&H) and found it works equally well as my Wolff guide rod and unsecured 24-pound recoil spring, but with the added convenience of being a captured RSA.
In summation, finally, to date, I've had just that one (day one) FTF malfunction - there have been no malfunctions of any kind since, over these last 13 months. I do clean and lubricate my guns every time I use them.
Only 10mm Auto ammo has been fired through this gun:
- A grand total of 1,820 rounds:
-- 1,200 rounds of various 180 Gr FMJ range ammo
-- 620 rounds of Underwood Ammo self defense and hunting / bear defense loads, including 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator, 200 Gr Hornady XTP JHP, 200 Gr FN HCL, and 220 Gr FN HCL
I've never again used the original stock M&P RSA or magazine springs.
I'm very happy to report that my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol has replaced my old Gen3 Glock 20SF as my wilderness trail hiking / biking / camping large critter self defense platform. I've found my M&P to be much more to my liking than my G20SF, as well as more reliable, and basically superior in almost every way. The G20 is simpler and quicker to fully detail strip and re-assemble, and for full power 10mm Auto ammo, I do prefer the Glock grip angle. Otherwise, for me it's the M&P 10mm all day over the Glock 20.
Good things! 👍
Thanks for the fantastic information!!! Much appreciated.
Very glad to see ya back.👍 And so glad the spring change worked for you. That's awesome......
Well, so far so good. 20 rounds in. I will update the progress after about 200 more. Thanks for watching!
Glad to see the positive results! I've been holding off on buying one until the glitches get worked out, but this seems like a good solution. Thanks!
Thanks for watching. Yeah, it seems to have taken care of the issue. Took about 50 bucks worth of upgrades. Small price to pay for a good reliable firearm. Although, it SHOULD come from the factory like that.
Great video I just picked up my S&W 10 mm the other day didn't even get a chance to go to the range thanks for the important information great video an information
nice to see you back
I own the 4.6 M&p and I changed the magazine springs & it’s been flawless with everything I throw at it.
Nice! Yeah. Mine has been good to go since the mag springs and recoil spring change. However, it should come from the factory able to digest the full power rounds. I'm still happy with mine, and don't regret the purchase.
My 4.6 10mm came with a polished feed ramp from the factory. I just bought it about 3 weeks ago so maybe they’re fixing the issues in production now. I haven’t had any malfunctions, I do have a 22lb recoil spring on the way though for the heavy loads. Max I’ve shot so far is the underwood 180 grain self defense rounds.
@@thorshammer5134 I would strongly suggest getting the Xtra power mag springs if you're gonna feed it a diet of high powered loads. The factory springs just can't keep up with the slide.
@@ThePenetrationChannel I probably will, it’s going to be my hunting/hiking/camping/woods carry pistol. So it’ll mostly be eating 200-220 grain underwoods. I have carried it a few times iwb and being 6ft3 it’s not bad at all. I may carry it during fall/winter months. I’ve heard the 45 acp mags actually work and function perfectly in the 10mm and they come standard with the higher power springs. So I may just pick up a few spare 45 mags and test it. I am planning an Alaska moose or caribou hunt with my dad which was the big driver in the purchase. I’d been comfortable with the 40cal underwood’s for the smaller brown/black bear in the areas I hunt and hike. He uses the Glock 40 mos. I wanted a good mid size do everything pistol and the s&w fit the bill better than the glocks or xdm imo. Appreciate the input.
@@thorshammer5134 the feed lips on the 45 ACP mags are different from the 10MM. I would have to disassemble my 45 mags to verify, but I'm pretty sure mine didn't come with extra power mag springs.
I have the no safety lever 4.625 inch barrel M&P 2.0 10mm and love mine. Loved it so much I sent it off to Mag-Na-Port for quad porting the barrel and slide. Should get the barrel and slide back soon.
Excellent video. I have the 4.6” barrel model, purchased in December. 500 rounds of various brand 180 grain no issues but have read of the problem. I’m trying out 200 grain next week. I like the recoil and mag springs suggestion. Thank you.
Thanks for watching. Hope all goes well with it. If not, springs should do the trick.
Try them 200 grain out yet?
Glad your back!
Absolutely! Thanks for watching.
I have a Glock 20 in 10mm and i made sure to put it through the ringer with the most powerful loads i could find before trusting it as my backwoods defense handgun. Im glad your doing the same! Too many people do not test their firearms and the ammo they intend to use and then find out the hard way that it doesnt function in a possible life & death scenario! I also purchased a Glock 29SF just because of how small it is and still chambered in 10mm. Its a very snappy handgun but it also states in the owners manual that you cannot fire +P or High Powered ammunition through it! Ive never tried for fear of the gun exploding but i wonder if they experience the same issues as your M&P. Im glad you figured out the issues and resolved them. I Have an M&P Shield in 9mm that i absolutely love and i even bought my Father an M&P Shield EZ.
I'm hoping this M&P continues to do well with these 200gr HC rounds. I had a Glock 20 gen 4 awhile back that had issues dropping mags due to the mag release chewing up the retention notch on the magazines. Now my 10mm selection is down to the XDM 10 OSP AND THIS M&P. I have my eyes on the new Gen 5 Glock 20. I will give it a little while for them to work any kinks out. I'm a lefty, that's why my go to guns are M&Ps and Gen 5 Glocks.
Thanks for watching.
Glock has the same disclaimer with all of their handguns. Both my G20s had the same thing in their manuals. Glock is just putting the standard warnings in place to avoid liability if handloaded, or factory ammo loaded beyond SAAMI spec is used. You can use full power 10mm in your G29 all day long if it is from a reputable company, like Double Tap, that voluntarily participates in SAAMI and loads ammo within industry standards for dimension and pressure.
@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 That is the same understanding I have as well. I also have both G20 and G29 and run the 180gr-200 Hard cast from Underwood out of both of them. I did upgrade to 20lb and 21lb springs, respectively, for them. But there is a lot of misinformation being spread about the 10mm; one of the such things going around is that you shouldn't run hardcast ammo through them, but Buffalo Bore (on their website) has indicated that they reach out to Glock and has confirmed that it is not correct and that it is perfectly fine to run hardcast ammo through the Glock barrels; and keep in mind that hardcast ammo is NOT NOT NOT hardcast LEAD ammo; lead ammo is very soft, whereas hardcast ammo is not. As I understand it, soft lead ammo should not be run through the Glock barrels because it can foul it up.
I appreciate your review sir! Going to grab the 20 lb recoil spring and see how that works 👍👍
I have done a fair amount of research on issues everyone has been having with gun. I haven't personally looked at the extractor but that's next because I like S&W and won't give up on this firearm.
What I have found to be true is it varies from ammo manufacturers which under more detail, boils down to the ogive of the projectile used. The typical .400 projectile is usually a wide curve leading to a large flat point. Depending on the actual dimensions, it appears the ammo under tension of the mag spring will occasionally hit the mag eject button and trigger the mag to drop while shooting. This is of course more relevant to hand loading ammo.
The ogive could potentially lead to feeding issues with the ramp also. This has varied from user to user but I do know that it jams often for people on the last round in the mag, leading to believe its a spring issue in mag.
I have upgraded mag spring and 22lb heavier recoil spring and guide rod in mine but it will still jam from time to time.
Still a work in progress.
Yes, it's definitely the ogive of the 200gr and 220gr hardcast bullets, doesn't matter if handloads or from Buffalo Bore/Underwood. More specifically, the magazine's "channeling ribs", which compress the double stack into one column. These are "too close" to the mag catch window, allowing those thicker bullets to contact the mag catch and eject the mag. Yes, it's not the mag spring but the meplat of the bullet that pushes out the mag catch, there are write-ups with photos of this online. This happens between the 5th and 6th round positions in the stack. Try loading 10 rounds of "anything else" (FMJ, HP, Xtreme Penetrators, anything with a rounder profile/narrower meplat), topped with 5 of the 200/220gr hardcast (+1 in the chamber). You should have zero issues with your upgraded magazine springs and RSA. FWIW I run 24lb. and 26lb. RSA's and they still function with weaker ammo, while slightly dampening the recoil of the real stuff. Hope this helps :)
BTW, zero issues with any ammo if loading only 5 per mag, assuming the stronger springs have been installed. Nothing seems to be wrong with the feed ramp. Feed lips are weird and short, though.
The functionality of the auto pistol depends on the recoil and mag springs, and can be interrelated. I had a Kahr that had a problem with rounds nosediving and hanging on the feed ramp. After two trips to Kahr, turned out the mag springs were too stout, and wouldn't allow the rounds to strip out of the mag. Discovered that after the springs were shortened 1 1/2 turns, it ran perfectly.
Thank you sir the video. Will you please post a link to the exact replacement parts that you purchased? Just wanting to make sure I buy the correct ones
My glock 20s do the same thing with full power loads. Tried wolf extra power recoil and mag springs still jammed. Finally after wasting lots of money on springs and ammunition I fixed the problem with Springfield xdm elite 10mm. Problem solved for me bought a 4.5 to go with my 3.8 both shoot everything and don't require springs barrels etc.
Nice. I have the XDM 10mm OSP with the red dot cut and threaded barrel. I haven't had a single issue with it using any type of ammo.
My Springfield was discontinued when they dropped the Elite versions which have a better shaped grip safety and ambi slide release. I've been thinking of trading mine in on the full size Elite.
@ThePenetrationChannel My brother has the regular xdm 10 and it shoots great too. Actually I was a glock guy for almost 20 years always had trouble with my 20 then my brother got the Springfield just to be different than me lol. After shooting both and my glocks jamming I finally cheated on glock and bought the elites. They are excellent.
@Arthur Morgan I've Never had an issue with my G20SF. It runs everything. Underwood 200 gr hardcast, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, I currently use either a 20pd or 22pd ISMI spring with a brass stacker steel guiderod, that's my ticket. Never messed with the magazine springs.
@dennertube4480 I think I might have just found the problem. Most all my mags the follower is stamped 2. I just noticed I have a couple with follower stamped 3 I tried underwood 200 gr hardcast it worked. I just noticed this a few days ago I never new the followers were different or noticed the numbers. After doing research glock changed the followers over the years due to problems they are up to number 4. The later followers feed better and looking at them they are designed different you can feel the difference. With full power the old style creates friction and allows the slide to outrun the next round being fed. I've got to do more testing before I trust it though.
@Arthur Morgan Interesting and good to know! I just have Gen 4 mags, thankfully.
Welcome back
Thanks!
A bit of a deep dive in to the 10mm cartridge… when the late COL Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.) got involved with the 10mm, he saw the potential to be a much better manstopper over his beloved.45. He worked with Norma and developed Norma spec loads (“full power” 10mm) with the intent to kill bad men. This load was 165 & 180 gr. hollow points at velocities Underwood pushes them to. This is designed for duty/defense against human threats. Verbiage back then was not “politically correct.” They spoke the truth when it came to intent of something.
A byproduct is hunting/trail/hiking hunting/defense against four-legged predators. With a nice heavier bonded HP or 200 gr hard cast loads, it’ll work well for game type animals. 200 gr hard cast has taken some African game animals at 100 yds from a 5 in 1911.
The main reason LE stopped using the 10mm was simple. Not all LEOs are shooters and can’t handle the 10mm Norma spec loads, and their qualification scores showed. The cartridge was watered down to 10mm lite thus ultimately creating the .40 S&W. Well, LEOs still had problems qualifying with the .40, including those very special agents. Then the 9mm was touted to be just as good, and the rest is history. I guarantee there are numerous LEOs who still struggle qualifying even w the 9mm. Qualification courses and gunfighting are two very different things. Simply qualifying doesn’t mean someone is ready to gunfight.
Other reasons are agency budgets and earlier guns couldn’t handle a steady diet of Norma spec 10mm.
I carried a Glock 22 Gen 2&3 on duty
for ten years, and shot them a lot! Simply swap recoil springs appropriately, and one won’t have any issues.
The 10mm, in layman’s terms, is a .40 +p. It’s not a .357 Magnum (especially from a 6 in barrel), .or 44 Magnum. Both of which people use/used for duty/defense against human threats.
In a semi auto pistol (not revolver) it’s a splendid cartridge, and IMHO, as a fan of the cartridge for 30 years now, it’s the most versatile pistol cartridge available. I EDC Underwood’s 165 gr. Gold Dots. When I take to the woods, I might swap for their 180 gr GDs. For mountain treks, I take a mag or two of their 200 gr HC as spare ammo.
Based upon the published numbers I've always seen from real 10mm Auto ammo manufacturers, for the most part, the 10mm Auto is the .357 Magnum of the semi-auto pistol world. Full power high end 10mm Auto is almost (but not quite) comparable to weak low end .41 Magnum, but it's no where close to .44 Magnum.
Based upon published percentage differences in MV and ME between standard 9mm Luger and 9mm Luger +P+ ammo, real full power 10mm Auto would be better than +P+ .40 S&W, if there actually was such a cartridge.
Just in Underwood Ammo's current line up, 10mm Auto ammo is anywhere from 33% to 56% more powerful than .40 S&W round for round of the same bullet type and grain weight.
Respect 10mm Auto.
Good things! 👍
I carried a Gen2 31 for 20 years. Still in the safe. I was looking for something with 'a bit more.'
This 2.0 10mm has been a useless nightmare. I have 40S&W loads for training with 165 Gold Dot custom loads that run 1300fps. 147gr 357Sig loads that run 1350fps.
Now those aren't the full potential of 357Mag, but they're certainly exceeding the standard by bullet weight.
@Swampytheroot
Interesting.
357 SIG is my second favorite semi-auto pistol cartridge, flat shooting, reliable, potent, effective. The problem is it's hard to find, very limited in selection, and expensive.
I'm sorry to say that I've neither the time, resources, knowledge / skill, materials, nor equipment necessary to reload my own ammo. My hat is off to you.
The hottest Underwood Ammo 10mm Auto loads I have used to date are their:
- 135 Gr Nosler JHP (1600 FPS MV, 767 FtLbs ME)
- 140 Gr Extreme Penetrators (1500 FPS MV, 700 FtLbs ME)
- 155 Gr Hornady XTP JHP (1500 FPS MV, 774 FtLbs ME)
- 165 Gr Speer Gold Dot Bonded JHP (1400 FPS MV, 718 FtLbs ME)
- 220 Gr FN HCL (Buffalo Bore's as well [1200 FPS MV, 704 FtLbs ME])
These loads have all run 100% flawlessly out of my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol, with great accuracy, too.
I wish I could say the same regarding my old Gen3 Glock 20SF. That pistol proved to be extremely unreliable (a veritable jam-o-matic), and potentially unsafe due to its loose barrel chamber tolerances and unsupported chamber at the feed ramp (lots of notorious Glock Smiley Face buldged cases, and split cases), when shooting full power 10mm Auto loads from Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Underwood. I wasted a lot of money on different after-market barrels, RSAs, magazine springs, polishing parts, trying to get it to safely and reliably run my preferred bear defense loads, with which it was at best only about 70% reliable in terms of feeding. Absolutely unacceptable.
That's primarily why I replaced it with my M&P 10mm pistol (with its standard rifling, tighter barrel chamber tolerances, and fully supported chamber), which has proven to be extremely reliable. In 13 months, I've fired 1,820 rounds of 10mm Auto ammo through it, with only one malfunction of any kind, a FTF, that occurred during my first shooting session, in fully stock configuration, in May 2022. A quick, easy, inexpensive change of magazine springs and RSA ($40 + S&H) has thus far provided me with an extremely reliable wilderness trail hiking / biking / camping large critter self-defense platform.
Good things! 👍
Wish I tried the Galloway Precision 22lb RSA before I sent my 2.0 Compact 10mm to S&W. Just a couple days shy of 8 weeks, they had the gun and all they did was polish the feedramp and chamber. It’s at my local ‘smith to have an Apex trigger and stnd height factory tritium sights installed. Can’t wait to shoot it! Hopefully it’ll work this time, and I have the Galloway RSA to drop-in if needed.
thanks for the vid!
Curious - did you ever test those two variables; springs (recoil vs magazine) independently to see if it's one or the other that will solve without needing both changes?
I had the heavy Wolf springs put on with a 508T Holosun red dot installed and had issues. Went back to the 17 pound spring and it runs great. Of course I never changed the magazine springs. That might be a move to make.
Maybe the extra weight of the holosun slowed the slide down enough to function correctly with the stock recoil spring. The extra power mag springs would also be a good investment as it increases reliable feeding whether you use low powered target ammo or the hottest loadings.
Sometimes a magazine spring that is too strong won't allow ammo to strip from the magazine properly. See my note above.
I have the 4” and no problems. Although I’ve only ran about 200 rounds of FMJ and grizzly 180gr JHP. I did change out the recoil spring for a Galloway. If I recall I got either the 20-22 lbs spring. My next mission is getting stronger mag springs from springer precision.
The 10mm Norma Spec cartridges were designed (by men with extensive gunfighting experience) specifically to stop violent human threats. A byproduct is the cartridge’s inherent ability for “woods/bear defense” with 200-230gr. Hardcast. In the lower 48, 200 is the heaviest I keep in inventory. For EDC, I opt for Underwood’s line of expanding ammunition (and Xtreme Penetrators) and Winchester Defender. Please note that the .357 & .41 Magnum are more “powerful” than the 10mm that is only upwards of ~300 fps faster than the .40 S&W. However, the 10mm gives us reliable semiautomatic options with magazine capacity nearing 9mm.
I EDC a XTEN AIWB for around a year and love it. It has just over 4K rds down the pipe a second XTEN has just shy of 800. I’m dying for Sig to release a 4-in model to speed up drawing and engaging that first target. Example: I’m constantly .25 of a second faster with my M18 over my M17 from the same AIWB holster. That’s definitely enough of a difference to make a difference! Since Sig is dragging their feet (apparently), I turned to the M&P 2.0 Compact for my EDC requirement. Can’t wait to get it back from my ‘smith and start running the snot out of it!
I started carrying a 10mm 31 yrs ago and ecstatic to see its resurgence! It’s that good and I dare say the most versatile pistol cartridge available!
So how important are the springs? Every time I shot a qual (LEO) my pistol had to be turned over to an armorer. He inspected the pistol and tested the springs. Weak springs would be replaced and worn pistols would be scrapped and a new one issued. The armorers had been trained by the manufacturer. The reason for all this effort was, and is, that springs are very important.
Why would your pistol springs not be meeting your needs? It could be sales. Heavier springs in a pistol require addition effort by the shooter and could hurt sales. Obviously lighter springs make slides easier to use. You found the solution.
I’m going to pick up a 10mm. You video is very helpful. Thank you.
I am a new owner of a 10mm from S&W, disappointed in what I've seen about issues. No big name polymer gun should need a break in. This gun should also come ready to shoot 200 grn ammo, not "40cal" loads. The whole reason to have a 10mm is to use it full power. Thanks for the info!
Very informative, thank you
I tried those springer magazine springs and could not load the 15th round to save my life. After about 20 min I finally got it to load and it barely inserted into the mag well. I chambered a round cycling through the mag and it STILL jammed on the second to last round. Luckily I brought the spare magazine it came with that was never used and it cycled all 15 rounds of blazer brass with no issues. The first magazine must be out of spec as I don’t see any damage or wear on the follower, springs, tube, etc. And it ate all ammo types just won’t feed the last two rounds… Smith & Wesson suggested to return the gun for inspection but I think it’s fine now and would rather not wait 2 months for them to tell me what I already figured out. I bought a new magazine for 35 bucks at my local ffl. I’m wondering if keeping that first mag loaded for 3-4 months did something to it. My 9’s never give me an issue like that so who knows LOL Springer precision was nice and gave me a refund on the springs as well.
Looks like you're good to go.
I too had a problem, but mine was after the upgrades. I got a 22lb Galloway Precision recoil spring upgrade and Springer Precision magazine springs. I had a magazine slightly lower/dislodge but it did not drop all together - happened when I was on the 4th round of Underwood 200gr hard cast. Everything else I used was fine but I didn't buy this for plinking.
If you're experiencing issues after upgrading the springs, I would suggest returning it to factory configuration and sending it back to Smith & Wesson.
@@ThePenetrationChannel nope I found out the recoil and my grip (thumb) was releasing the magazine. With lower pressure rounds everything was fine but the full boogie bear protection rounds had my grip problem exposed. I was still trying to make my revolver grip work with a semi auto because this old guy didn't want to learn a new grip.
But it was all for the better, more accuracy better functioning and I am up to speed now. Did a lot of MantisX dry fire shots to get it right but Im on my way and the last few 200 round range days proved it was a good decision.... costly but good.
Liked and subscribed. Was test firing this gun in the range today. And heard things. But in this video you demonstrated a real approach to the gun that looks promising. Did you drop a link on where to buy the springs for your mags by any chance ? Also the guide rod and Springs from the same manufacturer?
I can't post links to firearm components. I can get a channel strike. Look at my channel info, and send me an email. I will send you the links for the mag springs, and recoil spring assembly through email. Thanks for subscribing.
That 5.6 inch new competed S&W 10mm has caught my eye.
Yeah. It looks sweet. Hopefully it will function properly straight from the factory.
Well boys, I’m here watching the video because bought one..
I ran my new Performance Center 2.0 full size 10mm 2 days ago. Sad to report that both mags would not cycle more than 3 consecutive rounds without a jam. 1st, the dead trigger, then inspect the chamber, and there is a log jam. Was using S&B and Magtech 10mm. Went through 3 boxes and called it quits with this gun. I will try the mag springs from Springer and perhaps the RSA from Galloway. Absolutely ridiculous. I was hoping that after all the bad press, this issue would have been resolved, but it appears not at this point. I have had countless guns run 100% out of the box over the years, with only a few exceptions. This one really irks me.
S&W needs to get it together... I was gonna get an M&P but I'm now decided on the G20
What are the exact part numbers for the parts? I bought one of these last year when they were first released and it stovepiped on about everything. I cleaned it after 10 shots, put it back in the case and put it in the corner, hasn't been out since. I bought the Glock 20 and the Glock 29 and have had 0 issues. I would like to fix the SW though, as I have a long history with SW.
I wanted to put my M&P 4” to the test for the first time so I loaded 5 rounds of Underwood 220 gr hardcast, 5 of 150 gr jhp and 5 of Blazer Brass 180 fmj in the same magazine so the hard cast would be the final 5. Surprisingly, they all cycled great except for the second to last round of hard cast. I pushed it back in place with my finger and it cycled the last two just fine. I then reloaded the mag with 15 180 gr blazer brass fmj’s and again the second to last round jammed. I hope it’s just a weak magazine spring issue as others have claimed. Otherwise, it’s a great gun and the 2.0 grips feel the best in my hand compared to other competitors. I heard they use the 45 acp mag springs. Might just stretch it out. I noticed some of their oem springs are slightly different lengths on the shield plus’s.
It's definitely a spring issue. I would suggest getting the extra power mag springs for the 10MM 15 round mags. That will take care of the issue. Thanks for watching.
@@ThePenetrationChannel I got some extra power mag springs from Springer Precision in Oregon. My four inch was failing to feed the second to the last or the last round also. Put in a Galloway Precision 22 lb recoil spring and rod. Handles all ammo. No more issues now
@@ev3dale298 I agree, but I’m wondering what else to get besides a bulky 10mm revolver or 1911 style. I’ve seen and heard pros and cons w pretty much every polymer 10mm on the market though…
@@ev3dale298 It now runs fine w any ammo (as long as I don’t load up 15/15 completely). It tended to bind and not want to push the last two rounds up.
A DPM Systems triple recoil spring will fix it by delaying the cycle of the slide just enough to allow correct feeding. This is what I use in a Glock 30S to fire 45super reliably. It is expensive, but I guarantee you will realize the Wolff RSA was a waste of money.
Hmm. I will give them a look. Thanks for the suggestion.
The Wolff Gunsprings guide rod and uncaptured recoil spring (now $30 + S&H), and/or the Galloway Precision captured RSA ($36 w/ S&H) would only be a waste of money if they did not improve reliability above and beyond that of the original stock captured RSA.
In my own direct personal experience, both the Wolff and Galloway recoil components have provided proven 100% reliabilty. For me, they've proven to be money very well spent.
Good things! 👍
@@jpg_sig10 I have a Galloway and a Centennial Defense Captured guide rods for the same gun. All work well when lubricated correctly. I'm not saying they are bad.
The DPM system is just far superior. The action is so unbelievably smooth, that alone will make you forget the others. I have a Wolff 24# spring I can use with it also, but that spring is not even polished and makes it look ugly. It still works. The DPM comes with a 15, 17, and 19 pound springs. The third spring built into the system is 26# and improves reliability without increasing the slide velocity forward very much. I think of it more as a buffer. That is a much better solution for this issue because it will still allow a wide range of ammunition to be reliable instead of just high powered.
Another example, I used a compensator and it will only function 45super reliably with a 14# spring, 17# is too much and won't even eject the case at times. The issue with that 14# captured guide rod was that it will sometimes not go fully into battery because the spring is too weak to overcome the trigger reset. The DPM System has more power at that point than even the factory guide rod using the 15# spring and runs reliably.
Overall the action is just way smoother than the factory guide rod, and the others have a lot of friction with the metal guide rods. I'm not sure why that is, maybe it's polished well. Racking the slide is just beautiful, but being smoother is not necessary. The DPM is about $80-$120, the other are $35 on average. Im just saying to help out because not everyone can buy different brands of these parts to test for themselves.
CDS is good.
Galloway is good.
Wolff is good, but un captured guide rods and springs are similarly priced to DPM. DPM is flat out, way better.
There will be a time when the factory guide rod will be more desirable than aftermarket ones, except the DPM. DPM is a true upgrade over the factory.
My S&W M&P 10mm has the same problem with every ammo type. When I get down to about the third round it won't feed. I need to try these upgrades.
Put a Floyds Custom aluminum base plate one round expanded using the same magazine spring on my four M&P 2.0 10mm factory magazines. All work fine now.
Factory springs or extra power springs?
Same problem occurs with the S&W MP 380, last round stove pipe.
Solution was to rough-up with sandpaper the plastic follower part in the mag so that the last round doesn't slide forward from the second-to last ammo going into the chamber.
Search here on YT, this seems to happen quite often.
Disapointed in S&W to say the least.
I own the 4.0 version and i was getting the double feed with the last couple rounds in the magazines using 180 grains. S&W sent me replacement springs for the magazines and seem to fix the issue. I started using the heavier 200 grain ammo and my magazines started falling out after every shot. Gun has been sent back to S&W and waiting on repair status or any form of information,
My Glock 10mm’s (four of them) all shoot underwood, DoubleTap and Buffalo Bore ammo without any hiccups. I love my M&P 2.0 9mm’s (two of them), but I just don’t trust my 10mm variant. Two of my three Colt Deltas also shoot the hot stuff without a hitch ever! (The 3rd is the very old Delta and before Colt did the frame modifications to handle hotter 10mm loads. So I baby that gun).
I agree, having to swap out with aftermarket parts is BS. I don’t understand why some gun companies use their customer base as the “guinea pigs” for functionality and reliability testing. Why don’t they test their firearms with the ammo they know everyone is going to use? Especially with the 10mm crowd? The three biggest violators of ignoring quality control for their handguns are in this order:
Sig USA
S&W
Springfield.
If memory serves, there were a lot of problems with the early Gen4 Glocks when they came out in 2010. Glock eventually made them right.
I've been seeing videos here on CZcams for a while, and as recently as this week, of malfunctioning new Gen5 Glock 20 pistols.
It's never going to be perfect if it's made by human hands. All human-made mechanical devices require periodic maintenance and repair / tweaking to stay in (top) working order. To deny this is to deny basic reality.
Good things! 👍
Both mag springs and recoil on order. Also there is an apex extractor I might get as well.
No excuse for these issues from S&W. As you note, the Springfield Armory OSP Elite 10mm functions flawlessly for any 10mm from my experience, as well as .40 cal. bullets.
Agreed. Thanks for watching.
Springfield pistols feel like they are toys
I really like the fit and finish of the SA XDm line of hand guns. With that said, I've seen fairly recent CZcams videos of accuracy issues with the XDm OSP 4.5" 10mm Auto, and catastrophic trigger failure with the 3.8" 10mm Auto model. Those pistols are not perfect, either.
That's all well and good but for someone to have to buy springs to fix a new gun is unacceptable. Smith and wesson need to fix this.
I agree.
Stiffer recoil springs are better for this, reduces wear on the slide and it's stop. I am looking for a new 10mm pistol myself, would like to go with the S&W not sure yet.
this is so funny reading everyone is replacing this, polishing that. It's the feed lips on the mags. They are slightly too wide. Close them "slightly" with a hammer and you'll see the feed angle of rounds will be less. You're feed problems will disappear.
Now; does anyone have a solution for the mag drop issue?
Your right!!! S&W apparently don't get it! I have a M2.0 10MM and FN 510 MRD. After watching your video, I ordered a #22 trapped SS spring, but shouldn't have to. I'm a G. Tech for one of the largest guns and parts stores in midwest. "Taking firearms Serious since 1939" I will let any and all potential customers (in store) know this issue and how they must solve it. My FN goes with me on my chest, in bad actor country.
how does it do with 180gr with the factory spring? like magtech loads. btw i'm looking at that 4" version. Have the Springfield but not happy with the trigger.
I have the 4 inch model and I’ve run all kinds of ammo through it….plenty of Underwood ammo and not one malfunction …only thing is you must wear ear protection…Also own a G-20 also no problems or malfunctions…
Lol dude you should be wearing ear protection when shooting regardless of what gun or caliber
hey man i appreciate the video i have the same problem as many other people do. is it okay if you could link the springs so i could do the same thing as you did? i don’t wanna get the wrong springs. also hows it running anymore malfunctions?
I can't post direct links to firearm parts without risking a channel strike.
Google search the following,
springer Precision sku SP0436
It will be the first option that pops up. Just verify that it says 15 round extra power mag springs. They are 10 bucks each.
My gun has not given me anymore issues since changing the recoil and mag springs. The 22 lb spring also makes the gun less snappy during rapid fire.
Reply back if you have anymore trouble. Or email me at thepenetrationchannel@gmail.com
A lot competition guns have tailored guide rod springs according to compensators and bullet weights. I would think the M&P 10 would be no different. I have had 1911's that were finicky to bullet weight and spring rates.
This is not a competition gun.
@@asphaltannihilator157 Well, no kidding.🤔
Excellent video!! Have you ran anymore UW 200gr hardcast? Has it been reliable since the springs swap?
Yes 100% reliable. I have over 200 rounds of the hardcast, and a few hundred rounds of cheap target ammo without a single malfunction.
@@ThePenetrationChannel excellent, I just got my 24lb guide and waiting for mag springs
I think the .44 mag. model 29 is a far better choice for bear protection. I have the same M&P 10 you have and haven't changed a thing on it. I run handloads with 180 gr. XTPs and 10.8 grains of blue dot. No problems whatsoever.
6 vs 16 rounds of hot hard cast has me favoring the 10 mm…I have a couple of both guns BTW
@@bayou-buy-me I might be inclined to modify mine with a 21 lb. guide rod system and use 200 grain XTPs at full charge for bear also. I just haven't completely ruled it out for bear protection. I just trust what works previously.
Buffalo Bore has a 155gr copper hollow point for self defense use.
Run a mag of .40 S&W through it to make sure it cycles on lower powered ammo.
@10:02 @11:29 @12:12 I noticed "im a lefty too" that you used the slide stop as a release on the right hand side. Im interested in this firearm and was wondering, did you have to do any modifying to get the slide stop to work as a release on the right side?
No mods. The slide stop lever is extended a little bit more than the original 2.0s. it's actually functional now
@@ThePenetrationChannel Much appreciated for the response, i'm going to see if my LGS has one. Any idea if it also functions just as easy locked back without a mag in it?
@@sinistar426 yes it would. However I would advise against slamming the slide closed on an empty chamber. It exerts too much unnecessary pressure in the breech face and barrel hood.
@@ThePenetrationChannel
Exactly right.
Good things! 👍
For the life of me I can't get that 15th round in the mag when using the springer precision mag springs.
Thànks. I got the 4inxh. Subbed
Run the lighter faster stuff also. Underwood xtreme defense or the range ammo set at over 1400 fps in the 165 and or 155 grain ball ammo to see if it works.
I switched out the weak 17-pound RSA and weak magazine springs in my 4.6" M&P 10mm back in May 2022.
I've enjoyed 100% flawless reliability in my M&P 10mm ever since, through 1,820 rounds of (all) 10mm Auto ammo:
1) 1,200 rounds of various 180 Gr FMJ range ammo
2) 620 rounds of the following Underwood Ammo:
- 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator
- 155 Gr Hornday XTP JHP
- 165 Gr SGD Bonded JHP
- 180 Gr Range Supply FN FMJ
- 180 Gr Nosler JHP
- 180 Gr Hornady XTP JHP
- 200 Gr Hornady XTP JHP
- 200 Gr FN HCL
- 220 Gr FN HCL
This pistol, post the inexpensive, quick, easy RSA and magazine springs upgrades, has proven to be extremely reliable.
That said, S&W should have gotten this stuff correct right out of the gate.
I don't like being an unpaid beta tester.
Good things! 👍
Thanks for shooting the ammo to test for us. I put a 22lb Galloway spring in mine with stock mag springs and still had feeding issues with Underwood 180 gr. Ordered the springer precision "Extra Power Magazine Spring For 15rd M&P 10mm SP0436" and ordered a 24lb recoil spring as well need to test with mag springs and will ad the 24lb to the test as well. Sad that S&W wont fix the mag springs and add an extra Recoil guide rod that works with full power loads. Seems everyone is having issues with underwood ammo. Are they the only ones making the Full Power loads? Would like to see if this issue follows all Full power ammo from different manufactures.
I’m having the same problem with Sig Sauer 180gr 10mm. Got the Galloway spring and same issue. Gonna get some new mag springs
People have issues with Buffalo Bore, too. Underwood is just the more affordable option. Stiffer springs are a must (I use a 26lb.) but with 200/220gr hardcast it's the mag shape, a design flaw - that causes the mag drops.
@@languagesource355 You would think a company that has been building gun as long as S&W would be able to resolve the issue. But it shoots 40 cal pressure loads fine. it just a 10mm not designed to shoot full 10mm power loads. Sad.
@@motorcitymadman146 yes, it is sad. But more precisely it's not the power/pressure, but rather the mag design and springs that aren't adequate. The barrel takes the full pressures just fine. Slide and frame also handle it fine, especially with adequate RSA. Many companies today are mere shells of their former selves, just a name and a bunch of patents. Remington, S&W, Colt, Marlin... Even Ruger isn't quite the same, even if they're better than Remington and "saving" Marlin from mismanagement.
A 10mm handgun that will not cycle full power 10mm is no use to anybody. The .40 S&W exists, so if people want that level of performance, they should just get a .40 S&W.
The 10mm Auto was designed as a duty round for police and civilian personnel protection. I have been EDCing 10mm in the woods and the hoods for decades. I have never, not once, sought out or carried in any capacity, watered down 10mm Auto.
I was really excited when S&W came out with the M&P 10mms. I've carried a Glock for many years and while satisfied, wouldn't mind branching out. I am not a fan of the Springfield XD (Springfield Armory anything, really) or the SIG P320 (I prefer firearms that only discharge when I tell them to). But the M&P and the newly realeased FN 510 are pistols I have a lot of interest in. I really hope the issues with the M&P are taken seriously and addressed by S&W. Or at least that it is something simple like a spring change that the aftermarket can accommodate cheaply.
It seems to be working so far. Luckily, it's not my only 10mm option. Thanks for watching.
The problem with 10mm is the ammo manufacturers loading such a wide range from literal 40sw to true 10mm like Underwood. They need to entirely stop loading 10mm at 40sw levels. Create a new name for the week loads like 40LC long case or 10-4 so you know it’s not real 10mm but will function safer than firing 40sw in your 10mm. 10mm should be loaded to 10mm levels. Currently you don’t know if your getting a 10mm or 40sw without doing research which is just ridiculous.
@HardcoreAmericanUSA Don't get me started. I can rant for hours on that. Mainstream manufactures load watered down 10mm nobody asked for or wants, because anyone who wants .40 S&W performance already has a .40 S&W. Then, when nobody buys their shitty, useless, weak ass ammo, they complain their is no market for 10mm. Meanwhile, loading full power 10mm made Mike McNet a millionaire. Multiple boutique manufactures, like Double Tap, Underwood, and Buffalo Bore sell as much full power 10mm as they can make, as fast as they can make it. You can't hardly find full power 10mm because everyone who offers it is constantly sold out.
The free market has made its demands. There is absolutely a market for 10mm. You just have to load real 10mm. But the major name brand ammo manufacturers don't. They ignore market demands and treat the 10mm uniquely like a pariah. Insist we don't know what we want, like they know better. I hate it. So needlessly frustrating. Fucking assholes think we get 10mms just so we can pay 25% more for. 40 S&W performance.
I own the 4.6" model, I just got back from the range after I installed the heavy duty springer precision mag springs and the wolff 22lb recoil spring and guide rod......the results.....I shot 3 full magazines of 180 gr fmj brass blazer and had 5 failure to feeds.......I loaded 1 magazine with 200 gr hard cast underwood.....shot 3 times and had 2 mag drops and called it quits ..needless to say I will be getting rid of this firearm......it feels great and is great looking but just doesn't function how it should
Not the 1st person to have these issues for sure
Did you replace the striker spring as well? I noticed that the kit came with one, but didn’t hear you mention replacing it. I was thinking of just running my factory striker spring and keeping the one that came with the kit for a spare. Your thoughts?
The striker spring included is an OEM spring. Same spec as original. So I just kept it as a spare and kept the factory spring installed.
@@ThePenetrationChannel
Agreed, I did the same.
I gave up on this for bear defense and bought a 20ga shockwave.
For feed issues; close the feed lips on the mags slightly. You'll notice the feed angle will be less. The angle is too much and causing the jams. If you close the lips too much you'll have a different feed problem.
If I may ask...
Close the magazine feed lips to precisely what measurement for obtaining improved feed reliability?
Using what tools?
Thank you!
Polishing the feed ramp makes a world of difference
Have you had any problems with your XDM 10mm? I have a G40 and I am looking for a smaller size 10mm. I am contemplating between the XDM and M&P.
Thanks
I never had any issues with the XDM
However, I like the M&P better and achieved better accuracy with it. I ended up trading the Springfield for a Kimber R7 Mako. The new XDM elite 10MM are really nice. You wouldn't go wrong either way.
I just bought one of these. I assume you are carrying it now for woods protection so I wanted to know what you use to carry it?
I’m struggling to find many appropriate holsters for this gun.
I use a chest rig personally
Thank you!
Great video brotha. So is it safe to assume that if I’m jus shooting 180 grains, I should be ok?
I didn't have any issues with 180 gr ammo when it was stock.
Did you lose a round when you changed the mag springs? Mine only hold 14 rounds after changing the mag springs
@@michaelhamilton7908 no. I can get all 15 in them. It was a chore to load the final round at first, after a couple hundred rounds they eased up a bit.
Ok thank you for the reply.
@@michaelhamilton7908
I'm running Springer Precision 11-coil magazine springs in two of my three M&P 10mm Auto 15-round magazines. They do make for a tighter fit and stiffer seating of the fully loaded magazine into my pistol than the stock mag springs, but I do fit 15 rounds in each of them. Functionality has been perfect over my last 1,400 rounds fired.
Good things! 👍
I have the same gun with the same malfunctions. Just wondering if the springs are still working
I'm currently 13 months and 1,820 10mm Auto rounds out from my RSA and magazine springs upgrades, and have enjoyed 100% flawless reliability.
The M&P 10mm 4.6" pistol came under-sprung from S&W.
Why?
I've no idea.
With the proper springs, and appropriate user care, this is a great pistol. I clean and lubricate mine with every use.
Good things! 👍
I wonder how red dot's are going to hold up on that gun running those rounds.
I personally do not plan to run a rds on this pistol. If I were going to, I would opt for a Holosun SCS like I have on my 2.0 compact 9mm. It mounts directly to the slide without having to use plates. There is no way I would consider using a plastic plate on this 10MM.
@@ThePenetrationChannel
Agreed - the cheap plastic adapter plates and brittle mounting screws S&W provides are "throw-aways".
If you should happen to change your mind, I highly recommend getting an aluminum alloy adapter plate from C+H Precision, and use the stainless steel mounting screws they provide, plus LocTite Blue.
Good things! 👍
Federal & American Eagle 10mm, aka 40 L&E, long and expensive.
Exactly! Thanks for watching.
Can I please get a link to the recoil spring. I'm having the same issue and want to make sure I get the correct one.
I can't provide a link to firearm components without risking a strike on my channel. But if you Google search "22lb recoil spring for M&P 45" it will be the first page that pops up. Wolf springs makes the spring and guide rod for the 45 fullsize, but it works perfect for the 10MM. If you still can't find it, shoot me an email to my contact email listed in my channel info, and I will send you an actual link via email.
@@ThePenetrationChannel great, thanks for the info.
Did you try loading 15 round in your mag? I changed my mag spring to longer spring but my mags can only take 14 round and not a full 15 rnd.
Same here, at least on 4 out of my 10 mags with upgraded stronger springs. Hopefully they'll settle and accept the 15th round. I'll try leaving them loaded for a few days, at least when I can afford to get some 10mm ammo :)
Maybe smith and Wesson should make the adjustments with parts, instead of the consumer who already spent over $600 on this gun
I 100% agree.
Mine still has these same issues. Its gotten better. But still, I don't trust it. I've changed mag springs, recoil springs,. Polished ramp, it doesn't matter whether it's hot ammo or s-b fmj. my 4" is among the priciest safe queens I own. Love M&PS. Own several. But this one has been a huge bust for me. Still the middle of the mag rounds will choke 50/50.
Sorry to hear that. I would return it to factory condition and send it to S&W.
Apex is soon to release an FRE (fail resistant extractor) for this model. I have tested the pre market version the past 2 wks. It has made a world of difference for mine (4").
I just bought this 10 mm and have had 2 malfunctions in 2 separate clips at the 3 from the bottom of the 15 round clip. This was in the second box of 180 Blazers. Where can I order the heavier springs?
Springer precision extra power 10MM 15 round mag springs for M&P 10MM
Hope you get it sorted. Mine has been flawless since the spring change. I would look into a heaver recoil spring also to slow the slide down a bit. I went with a 22lb from Wolf.
- Wolff Gunsprings (Guide Rod and uncaptured Recoil Spring)
- Galloway Precision (captured RSA)
- Springer Precision (Magazine Springs)
Could you direct me to where to buy these springs
Is there anyone that makes the higher spring rate springs for the 4” model?
I'm not sure about the recoil spring assembly. You most likely would take care of any issues by just changing the 15 round magazine springs. Even with the factory recoil spring, the extra power mag springs should get the rounds up fast enough to let the slide pick up the next round properly. I would suggest changing those first, then try some full powered 200gr or 220gr ammo to test it out.
A couple things: From what I've seen, the 'off the shelf' 10mm range ammo that advertises 1250 FPS, is Magtech and Fiocchi. However when chronographed, it is actually around 1150 from a 4.6" barrel. So, does the underwood actually achieve 1250? If so, does the 22 lb spring work for all the bullshit weak loads, which are far more plentiful, or even say some .40 as a cheap range alternative? Thanks.
out of my 4.6" barrel Underwood 200gr hardcast chronoed 1215ft/s sdev 12 ft/s CCI 180gn at 1109 ft/s
My 4.6 inch runs flawless however I run a holosun 509t optic on it and slows the slide a bit over no optic I run underwood 180 xtp those are hot and it runs flawlessly no mods
It makes sense the optic slowing the slide enough to feed reliably. I'm thinking about adding a Holosun SCS to mine. Glad to hear you have had no issues.
cool
Can you make the video on how to install these for us that don't know how???
I would gladly do that, but making videos showing any modifications on firearms get you a channel strike now. If you need me to, you can reply back to this comment, and I will explain step by step right here in the comments.
I second this 😂
Man I couldn't find the 10 mm springs on Wolf. Only the 9 and 40.
You need to get the 22lb recoil spring assembly for the m&p 2.0 .45ACP 4.5" model. It's the same spring as the 10MM.
@@ThePenetrationChannel Thank you!
Why would S&W ship a 10 mil with a 17 pound recoil spring??
Good question. I think they engineered it for low powered self defense ammo.
Perhaps to make it easier for adults of less than typical healthy stature to rack the slide?
Really, I have no idea.
For whatever S&W's reason, from where we're all sitting, it was a mistake, made worse by their (apparent) refusal to quickly make it right.
Good things! 👍
For reference: M&P 40, 357, and 9 all use 16lb springs.
s&w should of never released the pistol. I almost bought one last week. Now I'm not, until they fix the problem.
Can you tell me the exact parts you picked up please.
Yes. I got the 22lb recoil spring and steel guide rod for the M&P 2.0 45 4.6" from Wolf springs. That was 30 bucks. And I got the M&P 10mm 15 round extra power magazine springs from Springer Precision. Those are 10 bucks each. I can't post links to parts on CZcams, but if you Google what I wrote, it will take you straight to them. My 10MM has been running flawlessly since the replacement.
Hope that helps.
@@ThePenetrationChannel Thank you. Was at work hard to hear what you had got. I found the parts. Thank you!
Was the smaller spring used as well from wolf?
@@sololanding_4x4 No. They send a factory striker spring with the recoil assembly. I'm running a stock striker spring already, so I didn't have to change it.
This is super helpful. I have the 4" model and am contemplating sending it in but this gives another option. Thanks!
Could just go get the new sig comp.
I will have to see that bro so stop it 🤪
I think if it were me I would test the way you would carry and I assume you would carry a fully loaded mag with one in the pike ready to go. I don't think you carry with 5 in the mag. I know there expensive but my life is worth testing for reliability the way I would carry, no matter what it would cost.
100% concur. And it's ironic that with this particular gun, more specifically its magazine, it's precisely between the 5th and 6th round positions in the stack where the hardcasts induce the mag drop or other stoppages, by pushing on the mag catch. Rounder bullets like FMJ, HP or Xtreme Penetrators do not cause this due to their shape.
Still running well?
Yeah. Zero malfunctions since the spring change. I have put 260 of the hardcast rounds trouble free.
Looks like problem solved!
So it seems. Thanks for watching!
Man, I was expecting something completely different from this channel. Back to p*rnhub I go.
I have a Glock 20 and it runs anything I run through it.
Nice! Glad to hear you got a good one. I used to have a gen 4 G20 and it chewed up the mag notches and ejected the mags out of the gun during fire. It had to go. I'm looking into the Gen 5 20. Hopefully I'll have better luck.
That's great! I'm happy for you.
Unfortunately my Gen3 Glock 20SF was a veritable jam-o-matic with heavy full power 10mm Auto loads from Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Underwood. Fortunately for me, I have now very happily replaced it with my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol, which has proven to me to be not only much more to my liking than my old G20SF, but far superior as well.
Good things! 👍
I bought this in 4" back in March. I have a G40 longslide, a 610 revolver and a GP100 target revolver.
This this is a POS.
It will only run 40S&W level 10mm reliably.
Magtech 180 and PMC 170 are fine. Won't run Underwood or Buffalo Bore.
Damned thing is useless. I bought a HoloSun SCS, extra magazines, etc. My 30 year old Glock 22 runs hotter ammunition better. And my 5 year old Glock 40 longslide will run any 10mm made.
Smith & Wesson totally screwed this up. Then add the worst customer service I've ever dealt with for a firearm. Holy freakin JayZus.
Hate it.
Master of making a short story long and tedious.
Did the same to no good results
I have the 4in and sent it back and still ftf every 2 or 3 shots only have shot 180g through it what a waste of almost 700 dollars