Wives Submit to Your Husbands: What it REALLY Means w/ Fr. Gregory Pine, OP
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 7. 01. 2022
- In this video, Fr. Gregory unpacks a passage of Scripture that often creates arguments: Wives Must be Submissive to Their Husbands. What does this actually mean and why is it important?
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I've always had a successfull marriage. But it got next level after I stayed home for the children, and even more after I went on a journey to try and live in my femininity. Which also meant accepting him as the leader.
It could really feel the dynamics shift and click into e place that made us both way more content
Beautiful testimony!â€ïž
What does "live your femininity" mean?
Asking sincerely. I've had spiritual directors tell me to lean into that and I have NO idea what exactly they mean.
I'm a mother, that's feminine. Deeply so. We plan our family by respecting my feminine fertility instead of seeking to destroy it. That seems to be respecting my femininity. But is that it, or is there more to it than that?
That's our story too! The more feminine and obedient I allowed myself to be, the more masculine and self sacrificing he became as well. It works
@@JP2GiannaT for me, it meant leaning into my nurturing ability - cooking better and more, gardening, creating, sewing, home care, etc - everything I could do to create a home that was welcoming, warm, and loving. I also dressed more feminine, veiled at Mass, and nurtured my body and fertility. And finally, of not only thinking my husband was head of the home but of giving him more opportunities to lead - stop allowing myself to run ahead of him and made decisions when I don't need to.
You are lucky because it is not always that you find a man who understand that he is the head of the family and a woman is left to be a leader and a wife
I think too many people have misunderstood "submit". If you apply for a job, you SUBMIT an application. If you get a bill in the mail, you SUBMIT payment. IMHO submit is to offer, not become a floor mat or slave. Perhaps reading the following two or three verses will make it more clear. Prayers tor all.
What i donât understand is the bible say wife should be submitted to their husband in âeverythingâ. Then what if he ordered her to do something bad, what if he is abusive, violent and childish? Clearly the church do not support staying silent when being abused.
I believe the base of marriage should be out of mutual respect and love. Both my parents has respect for each other, they consult each other before coming to an agreement, both highly regard the others in term of their intellectual ability and sharing in mutual responsibility of taking care of me one way or another. To me, my parents have different roles but they are equals. If this is all true and good then what does it mean for the husband to be the head of the wife? If husband and wife supposed to love and respect each other then shouldnât the bible say â husband and wife should love and respect each otherâ ?
@@huyenvu851 first the man has to have Christ as his head, only then he can love his family or else he will exploit the woman and she will try to usurp his authority. A man submitted to Christ will never order his wife especially something ungodly
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
I like your interpretation of submit. I think that is beautiful â€
Nice way to try and muddy the water. Many words have different definitions and you have purposely chosen the wrong definition for the application. Lets look at the PROPER Websters 1828 dictionary for the word submit.
Submit: To yield, resign or surrender to the power, will or authority of another.
Webster actually refers to Ephesians 5:22 as an application of this definition.
Another way to properly look at it would be to look at the original word used in the Greek, "hupotasso". Here is the definition from:
Strong's Concordance
hupotassĂł: to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
Original Word: áœÏÎżÏÎŹÏÏÏ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hupotassĂł
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ot-as'-so)
Definition: to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
Usage: I place under, subject to; mid, pass: I submit, put myself into subjection.
I like the ship analogy: husband = captain, wife = 1st mate, children = crew. Each has an important role for the ship to sail, and mutiny will cause it to sink.
@@torowalk9858 Never said it was. If a captain is a tyrant, his crew will mutiny. But you still need one guy in charge to make the final and especially tough decisions.
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
@@phoult37 Except your 1st mate doesn't know anything about maps or sailing or anything, but you continually listen to them until your ship runs into an iceberg and then they blame you for it. Best advice is to just love your woman but never take their advice/direction unless you specifically ask for it. They don't know how to sail. They don't know how to swim. They don't know which way is North.
@logicaldude3611 unless, of course, as a wife, you land up being the wiser one in quite a few matters! You land up having skills he doesn't. That's what happened to me. I'm not Catholic. I'm protestant. My husband is yet to be a believer in God! He's a lovely man, but sadly, due to his upbringing, a lack of knowledge in a number of areas to do with emotional intelligence. I rest my case. He's got better over the years, but he's a product of a crap upbringing. But a gentle, reliable, loyal man. So the result has been teamwork, and I have got him out of sticky situations numerous times. I can't help. I am more intelligent than he is!!! He's told me so. Plus, a psychologist.
This was one of my wedding readings and I love it as a wife thank you
Impressed that Father explained Ephesians 5 without using the word "hierarchy", though he gets close at 10:50 in describing the differentiation in roles. Modern views regarding gender, democracy, and power dynamics seem to be the root of people being 'triggered' by Ephesians 5:22, but in context of the rest of Ephesians 5 and the Christology that Father Gregory describes, it's clearly the husbands that bear the greater responsibility and sacrifice. Matthew 20:26-28 descibes Christian hierarchy and power dynamics as a relationship of top-down service, as opposed to an abusive tyrannical lordship - I think that applies here in Ephesians 5. People in modern western societies seem to struggle with envisioning that sort of beneficent hierarchy, though.
Duties of a Wife (Roman Catechism)
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
@@paynedv Thank you for sharing this. I recall my past life in which I would have bristled at these instructions, having swallowed the feminist ideology hook, line, and sinker. In coming to Christ and fully embracing my femininity and role as wife (and now mother), I have learned that while we may think we know what we want and what will bring us happiness, the things we pursue (particularly when they are not aligned with God's will) often have the opposite effect. My past self would never have imagined that real fulfillment and peace would be found in the roles and nature I rejected and sought to abdicate in order to follow my own will. Naturally, God knows us better than we know ourselves. Our properly ordered yoke is indeed easy and the burden light - it's what we were created for.
@@xxempress Your wisdome shines through in your comments. Marvelous!
It seems we need a spin-off series called âPints with Pineâ
I know many men that forget the part of loving your wife as Jesus loves his church and that hurts the view of the headship of the man in the relationship, it turns the relationship into a tyranny instead of a loving bond between people with different roles.
I agree. I always thought that dominance isn't morally justified unless the dominant one tries to use his dominance for the benefit of the people under him. I thought the husband should earn his place at the top by working harder than anybody else.
I don't see that as much nowadays as I see men let their wives control everything or the term is "she wears the pants."
Except in CatholicChristianity, Grace is not âearnedâ, it is merited, which is an entirely different concept to how this world thinks- the world thinks about âearningâ - see Trentâs Hornâs video on it.... The question is will I give up myself to the other, trusting it is an efficacious act of faith which brings about transformation in my own life and sets the motion for order? Laying down your life for your spouse, not dependent of the otherâs behaviour? Itâs a radical thing you know.
@@brendangolledge8312 do you also think that a father must earn his authority over his children? or that the bishop must earn his authority over his diocese? or the pope over his church? of course not. there is no earning. there is a duty set by God but the duty of the one who submits is not doing so because the authority has earned it. they do so in virtue of the office given to them. i dont submit to the pope because he earns it. i do so because he is pope. the same goes for our fathers, husbands, bishops and civil authorities. earning your place isnt a traditional view. but having a duty in light of already being in that place is a traditional view.
@@jstevo1349 It may be true that Christian doctrine says you don't earn your authority, but it also seems true that you should do your best to live up to the expectations that are placed on you in a position of authority.
Yes, I suppose in a sense I still think that authority should be earned. If the husband is not working to provide for his family, then his family cannot submit to him because they will need to try to take care of themselves. I think sometimes the effort is more important than the outcome though. A hardworking father who becomes injured is going to naturally get more respect than a healthy father who will not work. But if for whatever reason the husband does not provide for his family, it would seem to be suicidal for the family to go along with whatever he says.
Ephesians 5:21 isnât telling husbands to submit to their wives. Interpreting it that way always muddies the waters and gives the impression that the way wives and husbands are to âsubmitâ to each other is almost the same when it isnât.
God bless you father, for being willing to take this on. Not an easy thing to take this on. I think some further discussion further elaborating may be helpful.
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
Thank you so much Fr Gregory Pine!
You are helping me approach with respect and understanding some of the things that have been unclear to me.
I know you have been used by God to help many others as well.
Thank you
Thank you Fr!
Not Father's best. There's no getting around Paul's presumption of patriarchy. It is unreasonable to expect that he would call for completely overturning the social order. He is taking up the form of the Roman household code in this passage. But through it, Christian revelation shines through. Where in the Roman household code the husband has absolute authority over wife, children and servants with no duties towards them, Paul changes this form by imposing upon the husband the duty of self-sacrificial love towards the wife. It's a breakthrough towards equality under the influence of the Spirit and sets an inspired trajectory.
Duties of a Wife (Roman Catechism)
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Thank you very much for this video. It's true that this reading comes up a lot in conversations and more often than not discussion turns into battle. Could you also explain another passage by Paul where he speaks about "women covering their heads" 1 Corinth 11? If you did a video about it, could you share a link? Thank you for all of your hard work and God bless!
The society at that time got offended that many Christian women were unveiled or refused to veil using there Christian faith and people also were likely to mix them up for prostitutes so yeah it was for that time not ours
I love this scripture and live it every day. God-Husband-Wife-Children. I love the umbrella image personally - and shows the "under the mission" aspect clearly.
The umbrella image is not helpful at all.
@@JonineBlackshear agreed it reminds me of the cult Children of God that used that same analogy. It was a control tactic. Not the idea of what Christ, I think means.
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
@@paynedv yes, I've read the catechism of Trent cover to cover and I'm familiar with all those scriptures.
Nice reading and true & fair explanation of the scripture.
No
@@paynedv yes
Thank you for your explanation ! Could you please also explain First Corinthians 14, 34-35 ?
âThen arose between the two Spouses a holy contest, who should obey the other as superior. But She, who among the humble was the most humble, won this contest of humility; for as the man is the head of the family, She would not permit this natural order to be inverted. She desired in all things to obey her spouse saint Joseph, asking him solely for permission to help the poor, which the saint gladly gave.â
Venerable Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God: The Conception, (Charlotte: Tan Books, 2013), pg 582.
Wives should subject themselves to their husbands as a companion, for this is the natural order. Husbands to, out of virtue, are called to serve humbly. If Saint Joseph, one of the greatest saints in heaven, was willing to humbly serve his wife then what excuse do we have for not following his example. This was also before he knew that Mary was the queen of Heaven. That being said, the husband is still the head of the family and still needs to lead. Only with virtue can their be true friendship between spouses.
Its a struggle for any religious person to answer this. As someone who is married and gives pre-Cana seminars (those getting married), we teach that there is a clear differentiation, but should not be interpreted as the man being superior to the woman. Again, the woman came from the rib of the man, therefore, in the eyes of God, equal. But in the family, like any organization, there is always a head and subordinates. If the father is God fearing and allows Godâs grace to flow through him (he commits to be a good husband and father tethered to Jesus), subordination of the wife becomes so natural.
Yeah, sorry, Father, this wasn't exactly clear. To explain the differences between husbands and wives with the word "peculiar" without explaining how they're "peculiar" isn't helpful.
I think it was a piece of advice that I saw someone give to young men in regards to marriage. You look for a woman so wrapped up in God that she will be willing to accept you if this was her call.
In other words, if a woman seeks God as her head and God places a man for her in his place, then she will submit to Godâs will. The order is always God first.
My friend who, although is protestant, told me "Don't ever marry a girl that loves you more than she loves God."
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man." 1Cor 11:7
Yes, another instruction that helps us to define proper biblical gender roles.
I donât think I ever received a notification for this video. :/
me too
Your refund is in the mail.
@@GrislyAtoms12 lol...
Youâre a brave man for taking on this subject. I canât understand why God would place man as the head of woman. We are a fallen people and women suffer at the hands of men. Women allow themselves to become vulnerable to men, giving up careers for the sake of the family only to be berated for everything. Weâre blamed for not earning enough, blamed for everything the children do, grades, behaviors, friends. Blamed for not taking care of the household while husband zones out to the television. Somebody explain to me why this is good and just? Iâm not saying women would be any better lording over men. Why canât we all be under Christ.
Give Him your wounds first, sister in Christ.
Thatâs because most men do not have Christ as their head. Once they submit to Christ, order is restored .
A woman should only accept the man as the leader if he is living as Christ would treat a woman. If he is not doing that than he is forfeiting his leadership.
If he treats her any less than God would then he is not worthy of following. Of course no one can do this perfectly as we all sin, but as far as the "bigger" issues go like abuse, belittlement, Laziness, negligence, and so many other things that he might do...then he is not to be followed. The key point in that scripture is "as Christ loves the church". He would want nothing bad for her and should treat her as his own body. If he isn't doing that then he is not living the identity of what man should be and shouldn't be allowed to lead
If God didn't put man as the head of the woman, what would be the alternative? Egalitarianism? Father Gregory addressed this in the video as a fallacy. Quote: "A cannot be subordinate to B in the same way B is subordinate to A at the same time and in the same way". As Christians we are all subordinate to Christ, but nowadays when I hear it I cringe because it's too often said to imply, or take on double meaning. Like a bumper sticker with no practical implications.
That aside, what you've written is oddly anecdotal and strikes me as resentful. If you think women are being blamed for everything you cannot be very up to speed with the social and political climate.
Is it a mere coincidence that as our socities have become more egalitarian, and there's equity between man and woman in the most literal sense, wives are less happy with their husbands, and vice versa? It's almost like A being subordinate to B the same way, at the same time as B is to A is mutually exclusive, and renders both parts practically obsolote. Perhaps men being robbed of their Heavenly Mandated roles and duties conjures up feelings of worthlessness and lack of purpose. Happends when women take up spaces they have no business being in.
I got into an argument with a married friend about this the other day. He and I are both married. I've been married for 10 years he's been married for 2 years. He believes wives are "property" of their husbands and he believes it is 100% biblical to believe this. He uses the same scriptures mentioned in this video to justify his claims. He's really mean and nasty to his wife. Yells at her, talks down to her, tells her she's stupid, and openly complains about how dumb she is to me and our group of guy friends.
This is my concern here, I don't feel that Fr. Pine sufficiently addresses what to do if the husband doesn't live up to his role to the point of sinfulness or requiring sinfulness of the wife. Abuse, contraception, addictive behavior wrecking the family life . . . It's easy to say it's all good when these things don't exist, but often they do. This is an overly simplistic answer from Fr. Pine. If a husband is not acting like Christ in an area, a wife can make and often should make the Prudential decision not to follow him in this particular area. This is how I have always interpreted the "as unto the Lord" part of this passage. To take it as "in everything" no filters can be disastrous and not what the Church finds in it ultimately, as She allows for separation in certain cases and says that a wife must resist contraception, anal sex; etc. Just way too oversimplified here
What it really means is... wives be submissive to your husbands.
How would you respond if only women could be priests in the Catholic Church? Would you be okay with that or would you wonder if something was wrong with men? Iâm just curious.
The same way men respond to the fact that only women can generate life, as something part of life, God and the natural way of life
Duties and virtues are clear.
The practical aspects of how a man should exercise authority over a woman after being educated and live his own life under an equalitarian paradigm is the bigger problem.
What about situations in which the spouse is clearly being asked to go against their correctly formed conscience and/or their own good? What about the fact that the Church allows for separation in some cases? What about a husband trying to force contraceptives on the wife, which the Church says she may not do, regardless? This answer is an overly simplistic one, I fear, and can do grave harm in such circumstances.
Father Ripperger has a lot to say on the matter.
It means exactly what it says lol
Did not give a good enough answer for me
It means exactly what it says it means. The Bible as a whole is very clear on this, all the way back to Genesis. We should stop addressing the psychopaths who misuse a handful of verses and we should stop acting like we have to water down our view on this because of those people.
Why not answer the question. Should women submit to their husbands in all things?
It is dangerous to answer that question, and in doing so the good Fr. risks losing his viewership and angering his bishop. He means to imply it, instead.
It's a bad question because the answer is simple and obvious. No. For example, the wife should not obey a command to sin.
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
Stay single fellas, stay FREE
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. - eph 5;21
Those are instructions for the body of Christ in general. The more specific instruction for a wife in marriage comes right after that: "Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
of course wives are to submit to their husbands but if you leave this at that point it will be manipulation, falsehood, unbalanced teaching because husbands are to submit to their wives too. so you are misleading and deceiving people. you dont understand the subject you are talking about. @@j.p.5716
He said: I'm less than you in that I clean the roof tiles and put out the garbage.
She said: I'm less that you in that I wash the diapers and get the kids off to school.
Sounds fair :)))
Tell that to my ex..
Hi Father Pine, I didnât find this video as helpful as some of your other ones. :( Although you explained what the passages mean, I think I was more wondering âwhyâ. I found the argument, well God just chooses to act differently, really unsatisfying, lol. Maybe thatâs just how it is, but I also canât help wondering - why? God just randomly decided that women would be second in the Grace-hierarchy?
Iâm asking honestly, and I fully accept I might have misunderstood this completely, Iâm by no means trained in theology. What irks me about it that this always seems to put women second to men, âfurther awayâ from God, from his stream of Grace. As if for a man, it didnât matter whether he chose to be a priest or a husband: but for a wife, becoming a religious sister is the only way to directly receive Christs Grace.
Itâs hard for me to believe that.
Maybe some concrete examples would have helped. Iâve heard of very Catholic good marriages where those ârolesâ were so idiosyncratic and didnât resemble âtypicalâ gender roles much. I find the same problem in Lewisâ third book of the Space-trilogy. Maybe Iâm too influenced by modern feminism ⊠but if you could address this topic in a longer form with a bit more explanation, Iâd be really grateful!!
God didn't choose women to be in second in hierarchy we are equals to men the fall caused dynamics to shift.
@@carolinpurayidom4570 Why not write out a good summary of your theological position on this topic instead of all the one-liners you're adding to other people's comments.
@@carolinpurayidom4570 What about Eve's sin justifies ALL women being second in hierarchy? I don't understand that logic at all.
@@carolinpurayidom4570 - Wrong. "Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger and dispute. Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive apparel, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer. But women will be preserved through childbirth-if they continue in faith, love, and sanctity, with moderation." (1 Timothy 2:8-15).
The Apostle Paul tells us that Man was put in authority by God by virtue that he was created first. He makes it clear that the woman was created FOR The man. Women are equal in worth and value but not created for the same role. It's not about value, it's about order and order is created by authority.
đ€Šđ»ââïž
Why don't you have your own channel father? Or do you?
He has a channel called Godsplaining.
Headship = Authority.
Also equals serving.
@@anjieobasa1871 - But there are different type of service and a husband is called to serve his wife's needs (provision, protection, leadership) as he see them, not her wants.
@@j.p.5716 then you can also agree that the wife too is supposed to serve and submit to her husbandâs needs and authority as SHE sees them and not just his wants too right?
@@anjieobasa1871 No. the one in authority dictates. The wife is to submit to the authority of her husband.
In business, it is not tge employee that dictates what is to be done, itâs the employer, the one in authority.
Same dynamic in marriage.
@@j.p.5716 Comparing marriage to that of a boss and Employee and using the word "dictate" are very skewed, inappropriate and unbiblical ways of viewing marriage. A marriage should reflect Christ and the church not a boss and Employee and certainly not should be about dictatorship.
When I read that passage and realized that I was supposed to be Christ as He was to the Church, I pondered on the whole âJesus being crucified and tortured for the sake of the Churchâ and thought that maybe marriage was simply not as enticing as it could be.
That sort of thing becomes enticing with love.
Although your comment is a bit selfish, it also is funny and made me laugh.
I know you're joking but I think you actually raise a good point. If the idea of sacrificing for your partner is not enticing, then maybe marriage isn't for you (I mean a general "you", not a personal one). Of course to live as a Catholic, then one has to live as a chaste, single person. Hmm... what's more appealing then?
These verses have been verses Iâve wrestled with and grappled with for a few years now. My problem worh these veredas are
1) men are not God so why do some women expect so much from them?
2) arenât wr all supposed to be Christ like and Godly not just men?
3) the give up his life for her veres implies âdeath do us partâ / âlove you until I dieâ is only coming from the man and that the woman doesnât have to live the man until the end of her life?
3) how far does this go with regards to decisions and having an opinion? Eg husband âIâd like four childrenâ but wife âI only want twoâ do you then have to have four children because itâs want the husband wants?
4) where does the protection part form a man come from biblically, this doesnât seem to be in the scriptures.
5) why canât a woman look after herself and then help her husband why does she need to help or see to her husband ALL the time. ??
You have asked these questions in so many different places. You truly are searching for answers. I have answered them elsewhere but I will try again here.
1. What women do and don't expect from men is really irrelevant. Only the instructions given to us in God's word matters.
2. The instructions given to women (specifically wives) are different than the instructions to men. Jesus says that is you love Him, you will keep his commandments. (John 14:15)
3. The "give up his life" verses implies sacrifice, as in sacrificial love. A husband is commanded to love his wife as Christ loves the church in a sacrificial way.
4. Husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loves the church. they are also called to provide for their wives. They are also called to treat their wives as they treat themselves. All of this indicated that a husband is to protect his wife. Honestly this is a really weird question that I have a hard time understanding the motivation for.
5. The creation account in Genesis tells us what women were created for. They were created to be a companion to and a helper to a man. Paul tells us also in the NT this same thing when he says that "the women was created for the man". There is nothing that says she can not take care of herself but her primary role in in being a helper to her husband. Again, this question is kind of weird. Is English your first language?
@@j.p.5716 I havenât more of an understanding of thisn topic now since posting these questions
I am going to shoot from the hip on this one
My dear, your mind has been warped by feminism to the extent you do not completely trust God but are in it for your reasons, whatever they may be.
God never said women were below men, but if you read the Scriptures with trust in God and not make God in your own image, you would soon realise that God made men first and woman second. While they are both responsible for the union, the accountability for the state of the union falls on the man as the head, i.e.. if the family is doing well or bad, it is the man's responsibility. When things go bad or well in a company, it's the CEO, not the COO or the board that is held accountable.
If you let the Lord guide you in choosing a husband, you would be fine, but if you insist on having it your way, it may or may not end in tears. The problem is that most couples use the latter option.
If you also read the passage Fr alluded to or if you watched the video, you'd realise that the man has more duties and greater duties than the wife. The woman only has to submit within Godly reason, but the man has to be prepared to love unconditionally even unto death
Following Christ is easy or hard depending on how well you listen and obey. If your obedience is conditional, you will always have doubt on basic things such as this. If your obedience is full, you will glory like Sarah and Mary
We were sold on the idea of equality when we are not equal. So let's do as those Democrats do and reword Traditional family as family dynamics instead đĄïžđĄïž
Most traditional families I know are miserable lol.
Mutual subordination is subordination of all relationships... is called charity. Marriage is not just every other charitable relationship. It is a sacrament of selflessness headship for the husband and sacrifice of fiat for the wife. Like the priest and the church. The hierarchical priesthood of the church is based on the identity of the masculine gender. When priests horizontalized the gender roles in the family... they deny the reason for male only priesthood. Men are priest because of the mystery of EPH 5. If women don't believe that. They are close to denying male only priesthood. +++
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
Sorry.... this doesn't answer the question at all..."how this works out, it just depends"??
Wives are to submit to their husbands. The husband is the leader (head) of his wife. He is her protector. He is her provider. He is her decider. The submission of the wife to her husband appears in seven books of the bible (Genesis 3:16; 1Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 5:21-33; Colossians 3: 18; 1stTimothy 2:8-15; Titus 2;3-5; 1st Peter 3:1-7.)
If my Mother didn't take on the Role of Captain. Our family ship would have sunk. I love my father very much, but without my Mother we would have never even gone to church.
In God's perfect world this might work. In a broken world some people only have the sacrament of Baptism and nothing else. Others have a Mother strong in faith and not the Father.
I am not saying this is wrong.. not a chance. However, in our family the Mothers are the reason we are all taught about God from birth and strong in faith.
1 Corinthians 11:3,8-10
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
[10]Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels.
Ephesians 5:21-24
[21]Being subject one to another, in the fear of Christ.
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
1 Peter 3:1-6
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
1 Timothy 2:9-15
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
[15]Yet she shall be saved through child bearing; if she continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
Titus 2:3-6
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[6]Young men, in like manner, exhort that they be sober.
Gods plan is for women and men to be equals men being the head came as a result of the fall before that men and women were equals
@@paynedv so how did you answer the question?. Should the mother just have sat there and watch her children suffer?
It sounds like you mother did not use good judgement in the man she chose to marry.
When Paul talks about chastity he basically says but that is just my opinion. He could have said the same thing here. Revelation does include registering saints opinions
Wrong. "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," (2 Timothy 3:16)
Oh, true! And ladies, sometimes you've got to defend your man by standing up to him on the spot, especially if he's going to do something stupid, or worse, oh, say *sinful*- then he really does *need* is lady to speak the truth of what he's up to to him- no holds barred... for then he is NOT on his own side, but is rather his own worst enemy! And this's from a guy who's saying what we men can need from time to time!
Amen
@@Seliz463 I heartily agree, and keeping silent, or even refraining from publicly denouncing him to his face, is only the worst possible act of betrayal imaginable at that time!
@@chissstardestroyer I so agree, this is what respecting someone really looks like!! Respect them enough to be honest with them, believe theyâre capable of being accountable for their actions, and donât just stay silent while they sin. If you actually love someone and will their good, you donât just sit there apathetically (or in cowardice) and let them sin. Real friendship and love demands that we be better to each other than that.
If youâre married, God bless your partnership. Youâre a good man. If youâre single, I pray youâre blessed with a woman who appreciates your humility and character.
@@Seliz463 Oh, indeed on the differences between fake and real charity as you've expressed.
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
I love you Father but you didnât explain what it means. You spent more time on the man
It's so sad to hear a priest have this sort of take. He just said wives represent sinful humanity that the husband is responsible for 'saving'.8:10 mark. Young women are leaving the Church over this issue in droves over this sort of manoshphere nonsense in the Church. Women aren't lower rank or less important than their husbands. At least he clarified that the husband isn't a god so at least he makes that clear - geez. I've been married for almost 20 years to a nice, normal lovely man who doesn't need to feel like I'm beneath him. We have made a mutual gift of self to each other. Ladies, stay the heck away from men who feel the need to put you down and view you as beneath them. Husband and wife and not captain and first mate they are two soldiers fighting side by side. Such an awful take.
Not a bad explanation Fr.Pine but I have seen imho better ones. I think what is mostly needed here is a New Testament scholar sitting down with a moral theologian or philosopher. In this regard given the vast differences in society and how controversial to the point of both poles usually being assumed, it is vital to get the historical and cultural contexts correctly and then work the underlying morality to draw out a clearer and firmly rooted understanding.
The second part is and husband's love wives as Jesus loves the Church. If husband's succeeded in their part no wife would ever think twice about their doing their part....husband's let that sink in you can only ever try and do your part you will fail because your love isn't greater than Christ's love. Wives give your husband's grace if they are earnestly trying at their part, husband if you focus on your part your wife will come alongside you.
Applause! Well said. I've always read this passage as a charge to men to make them worthy of submission. If a man lives as Christ did and sacrifice for his wife as Christ did for his church then a woman doesn't have to fear differing to her husband because she trusts that he will put her before him. Far too many men have abused this taking it as a privilege of domination instead of a responsibility. I believe no woman should be submissive to a bad husband and I don't believe our Father does either. That being said, some woman hav no trust in this institution and have become selfish.
@@mommymaureen do you likewise think you dont need to submit to a bad father, bishop, pope or civil authority? your views are modern inventions. its not "submit if they prove themselves". its just submit. your marriage has a structure inherent to it and that should be as the church. you dont get break structure because he isnt perfect
@@jstevo1349 So if a priest tells you it is fine to openly sin against our Lord, you are to submit? There are priests right now who do this.
No. Even if a husband loves his wife perfectly, the wife could still refuse to submit. Christ's love is perfect, and yet people refuse to submit to Him all the time.
This!
Man, I love your explanations Father Gregory, but I just can't wrap my head around this teaching of the church. It is the most difficult subject for me as a Catholic because empirically I can see the need for the rise of feminism, in searching for equal rights and equal voice (I'm of course against contemporary feminism and their gender approach). I just can't see how Scripture and the teachings of the church could lead to something resembling a women empowerment in society as a whole. I could get behind the idea of the different natures and purposes of the genders, yet I think that abusive mecanisms of power would be inevitable such as the husband having all the economical power, all the properties, all the democratic voice in political issues, etc. And the worse thing is that this wouldn't happen as an evil movement from men in order to subjugate women, but as a "rational" and, sadly, "divine-inspired" movement due to the emphasis on men being in charge of what's best for their spouse, and for women as a whole. I don't know, I just can't see how the idea of different natures and different purposes would not lead to subjugation in a worldly manner, in matters like politics or economy.
You are infected by a unique modern obsession with equality that has no basis in reality.
" because empirically I can see the need for the rise of feminism"
--Whats' the data that you see leading to this conclusion?
" I just can't see how Scripture and the teachings of the church could lead to something resembling a women empowerment in society as a whole"
--They don't because women should not be "empowered in society."
"I think that abusive mecanisms of power would be inevitable such as the husband having all the economical power, all the properties, all the democratic voice in political issues, etc"
--This was true for almost all of human history.
You are accepting the claims of modern gender theory as true, without applying a critical eye.
the fact is the bible was written by men for men, not women
"For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Timothy 2:8-14). So, according to this text, women were to be silent in worship because they were created second and sinned first.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male slave, his female slave, his ox, his donkey or anything which belongs to your neighbor" (Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21). Because the Ten Commandments are so well known, it's quite easy to miss the assumptions in them about gender. But the marginalization of women is clear. The wife is classified as her husband's property, and so she's listed with the slaves and work-animals.
There were women that were praised in the bible but not many.
I agree with you boo these trad comments really think God said women be housewives and men be breadwinners
@@phoult37 interesting, kind of a double standard isn't it? But yet we can't look upon the church with a critical eye can we?
The bible was written by men for men,
"Let a woman learn in silence and full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to be silent."
As if thats ever happened.
the book of timothy is talking about rules within the church so yes, women aren't supposed to be priests, that's not their role in the church. it's not telling women so always just sit pretty and keep everything to themselves, that's pretty clear from literally all the most Godly women in the bible
@@allegrahanda6567 "women should dress themselves MODESTLY and decently." so much for sitting "Pretty" So men are to pray and women are to dress modestly. That's quite a contrast. But there's more: "Let a woman learn in silence and full submission. I permit no woman to teach ( women teaching catechism - that's funny because all the teachers I had for catechism were women! ) or to have authority over a man; she is to be silent."
rationale: "For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Timothy 2:8-14). So, according to this text, women were to be silent in worship because they were created second and sinned first
.
This: a woman "will be saved through childbirth, if she remains in faith and love and sanctification with Modesty" - Hears this word again - (1 Timothy 2:15). This text is not too different from a Saying in the Gospel of Thomas (114) that says women can be saved once they become males .So eternal salvation comes obstetrically I guess.
This just the tip of the iceberg .
If you truly read the Bible there are some Very disturbing things in it ,but its all glossed over because its the Bible!
đ
@@sitka49 literally every single thing u said is wrong but i have a life so im not gonna go through it all, if u want to learn, you can do that yourself
@@sitka49 oh boy
Power corrupts. Experience shows that the situation of having absolute authority over their wives has corrupted many men and filled them with selfishness and arrogance. This in turn causes many women to eventually rebel against this authority.
Very disappointing. Utterly unuseful. Talking, talking, talking and saying essentially nothing. Feeling cheated with a (essentially) clickbait.
If I was still in submission to my husband I would be bankrupt and living on the street with 3 children
Exactly
This is really quite common. I have a brother who is a drug addict. To the degree you put men in charge of women, you are demanding that women submit themselves to human frailty and sin as opposed to submitting directly to God, who is sinless.
God did that to women as a curse, not a blessing.
That is just what you tell yourself to try and justify your sin because of your lack of faith in God.
There's nothing "groan-worthy" about traditional gender roles. They exist for a reason, and to suggest that the Bible is merely speaking about the man's role as head of his wife or the woman's role submitting to her husband as a matter of "grace" is to deny what makes us fundamentally, teleologically distinct. Using a priori knowledge and discernment it becomes incredibly obvious that a woman is of nearly zero use to a man to whom she will not submit. Just as a man who cannot or will not fulfill his role as protector or provider is not of any use to her. Although in today's modern age where women can fritter away their fertile years and redirect their maternal instincts by way of careerism and half-baked activisim, yes, a woman CAN make use of a neutered man, but she can never love him nor truly respect him. These situations lead to horrific outcomes in children and are a perversion of the natural order. And we know how God feels about that. So let's not do all of the mental gymnastics and jumping through hoops to explain this passage simply because modern women don't like to hear the answer. These are hard truths perhaps, but we need to stop deferring to women who react emotionally on matters of eternity and speak the truth, whatever the consequences.
There is something very groan worthy about traditional gender roles especially when it's forces
Women donât need to receive Godâs grace through men. Men arenât responsible for âsanctifyingâ women. Women have their own relationship with God. Men are not more Godly than women.
Actually husbands are instructed that they are to play a part (the Holy Spirit actually does the work) in their wives sanctification. Ephesians 5:25-27: "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless."
Husbands are told that their love for their wives (as Christ loves the church) is to be a sanctifying love by washing them in the word of God to help remove their spots and blemishes...
@@j.p.5716 Sure, but her relationship with God is her own, and she sanctifies him just as much. Like in Corinthians 7:14-16. âFor the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.â
⊠âFor what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?â
@@aenigmatica8 - You are caught up in the lie of feminism. You think everything between men and women is somehow equal. It is not.
Ephesians 5 tells us that marriage was created by God to be a picture of the relationship between Christ and the church where the husband plays the role of Christ and the wife plays the role of the church.
Those are very different roles and no equality applies. Christ sanctifies the church. The church does not sanctify Christ.
The passage you quoted is speaking of something different.
@@j.p.5716 Thatâs an analogy. You can ignore the many other passages saying that men and women are equal in the eyes of God. I guess you are caught up in the lie of sexism. I hope you find truth. đđ»
@@aenigmatica8 - Then everything in the bible must be an analogy to you so that you can ignore what you don't like. If you are not already married, please don't get married. The last thing a man needs is another silly deceived girl like you who thinks she knows it all to have to deal with.
I think it means exactly what it says. Feminism has destroyed women. I believe in equal rights, but each sex has things they are good at. Feminism brings out masculine energy in women. Its not good for 2 men to be married. I havent met a happy feminist yetâŠ.but I suppose they are out there.
No, there are no happy feminists.
So, if Iâm a lawyer, but also a mother and wife, does that somehow make me âmasculineâ?? Being intelligent and educated isnât something men are better at than women... it makes me feel happy and fulfilled. Whatâs so wrong with that???
@@AnnaBanana-tx9rf wrote "Being intelligent and educated isnât something men are better at than women..."
Depends on the subject matter. Men are better than women at engineering and invention. And chess.
@@AnnaBanana-tx9rf - God did not create you to be a lawyer. God created you to be a companion to and a helper to a man (Genesis 2:18). Specifically, He created you to be a wife, mother and homemaker. "Therefore, I want younger women to get married, have children, manage their households, and give the enemy no opportunity for reproach;" (1 Timothy 5:14)
I love when Priest like Fr. Pine put into perspective the holy marriage. What I find annoying is when Catholic women blame other women for their failed/failing marriages solely for not submitting, just because their own husbands are pious devoted Godly men, it is easier for them to submit. They are tone deaf, as bad as a rich kid who has a father who gets him connected to all the Ivy league then make those who struggle to get in for not studying hard enough. I turn those women off quick! Their tunes would be different if their husbands lead their household in a diabolical direction, if their husbands were abusive, if their husbands put more burden on them than they can handle. Imagine telling an abused wife its her fault for not submitting to her husband enough. Its this sort of Catholic women that turns off other Christian women and run away from their faith. We need more men to address men to be more Godlike if we want more order in our society, not put the burden on the women while the men go have a beer and sit on the couch and staring at porn, but its the womens fault he is that way. SMH
Father mentioned that this video is in response to a woman who asked if the passage is meant literally! Whoa, feminist alert! There is NOTHING in the passage to indicate it is metaphorical only, because St. Paul is teaching on how to have a Christian marriage, which is a literal not metaphorical thing.
Na - a man has no problem with loving his wife's body.
Thats the problem.
They only see the body.
Ouch. Might be on autism spectrum - high functioning?
You don't know noble men apparently
You wouldn't know love if it came up and slapped yo on the bottom.
Pope Francis recently commented that Paul was freed from the law but remained a supporter of his Pharisee training and became rigid because of it. And Jesus, in the Bible when talking about divorce to some men, when they questioned why his pronouncements were different from those of Mosaic Law, commented that in Moses' time, men's hearts were more hardened, and then Jesus announced that an evolution is taking place regarding attitudes toward women.
Paul's comments about women can be understood in that he was using the conventions of Mosaic law regarding women. Remember, Paul was a Pharisee before Jesus converted him. For example, Paul says that "Cephus" (Peter) was the first person to see Jesus after his resurrection, and then Paul goes on to list other men after Peter to see him--completely ignoring the fact that it was really women who saw Jesus first after his resurrection. Jesus revealed the most important news in the history of the human race, that of his resurrection, to a woman first, but Paul gave only men as witnesses because JEWISH LAW discounted the value of the testimony of women. This convention can be seen elsewhere in the Bible where it describes Jesus as feeding "the 5,000." But in reality, Jesus could have fed 20,000 that day, because women and children were not counted, A CONVENTION OF THE TIME. So while we're remembering that Paul was a Pharisee, let's also remember that Paul never met Jesus before Jesus' Crucifixion, so Paul never saw the way that Jesus related to women. Paul never heard the words Jesus spoke that Mosaic law was different from what he (Jesus) was advocating about women and marriage because, as Jesus said, in Mosaic law of the Torah, men's hearts were hardened, and Jesus advocates and announces a new humanity towards women with his coming.
Jesus loved and respected all types of women. Here a just a few examples of his dealings with women, his pronouncements, that confirm it's a new day for women since his first advent, and that Mosaic law for women is changed. But Paul apparently never got the memo--or he was too rigid to acknowledge it, as Pope Francis asserts.
In the incident with Mary and Martha, when Martha complains that Mary should be in the kitchen cooking instead of studying at Jesus' feet, Jesus defended Mary's right to study directly under him, saying, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and worried about many things. There is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her." (Luke 10:41-2) But the fans of Paul would want Mary to stick to kitchen work and if she didn't understand something, to "ask her husband." Jesus loved and respected all types of women, the traditionalist and the non-traditionalist. So Jesus here defends a woman's right to education, to her own "head," and her direct contact with him, AT THE SAME TIME, Jesus also does not criticize Martha, the more traditionalist woman. BECAUSE JESUS LOVED AND RESPECTED ALL TYPES OF WOMEN. TO CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN, DON'T YOU THINK YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME. So Jesus accepts the traditionalist and the non-traditionalist woman, and Paul doesn't. And if Paul disagrees with Jesus, who's right? Jesus loved and respected all types of women--and he accepted both types of women--the traditionalist and the non-traditionalist. In the incident with Mary and Martha, he doesn't make Mary go into the kitchen, but he doesn't criticise Martha for wanting to be the traditionalist, either. So Jesus solved this conflict over 2,000 years ago, if some stubborn egotistical men would listen.
At The Cross, it was the women, and John, who were with Jesus. The traditionalist woman who was there to support him in his darkest hours being his mother, and the non-traditionalist women who was also there for him being Mary Magdalene. (I've been told by some men at churches that in order to have contact with God, that I must "attach" myself to some man. I answered, then why didn't Jesus tell Mary Magdalene that--and they didn't know what to say. And on a CZcams comment section, they had come to the conclusion that women's salvation depended on having children! Then why didn't Jesus tell Mary Magdalene that, I answered in a comment. And somebody answered, "Maybe he did." ) But Jesus loves both types of women, the traditionalist and the non-traditionalist because both types of women are capable of devotion, and love, and service to him. And if Paul disagrees with Jesus, who's right?
And Jesus revealed the most important event in the history of humankind to a woman first! I'm talking about his resurrection. But, as mentioned above, Paul said that Cephus (Peter) was first to see Jesus. Then Mary Magdalene was instructed by the angel at the tomb to "go tell." But Paul says he will not tolerate a woman to teach a man. So if Paul disagrees with the angel and with Jesus' decision to give the most important information in the world to a woman to transmit to the male disciples--then who's right, Paul or Jesus?
In the incident with the woman at the well, she realizes who he is, and runs in excitement to tell the people in her village about him. And Jesus doesn't stop her to say, "I will not tolerate a woman to instruct a man." And if Paul disagrees with Jesus, who's right? The people return with her to the well and believe in Jesus, too, but say that they believed not because she told them, but because they saw him themselves! So the prejudice against women by most of society is revealed.
Particularly irksome about the Paul issue is this veil business. Traditionalists want women to wear veils in religious services to, as one trad put it, "show that they are properly submitted to their husbands." Paul told women to wear veils "because of the angels." Paul was referring to fallen angels who he thought were sexually attracted to women's beautiful hair, and Paul thought he was protecting women by telling them to wear veils. But if a woman accepts Christ as Savior, she is protected by the blood of Christ! So if women are covered by the blood of Christ, and we ingest his blood and his body through the Eucharist, how's some silly doile on your head going to top that? But some men in the church have turned Paul's veil comments into trying to make women submissive.
With my comments about Paul, it might surprise you that I am in favor of a male priesthood, and that's because the church is formed as a sort of family spiritual support system, and officials of the church are accordingly given family titles: father, sister, brother, mother, etc. The set up of the church as a spiritual/familial support system fits the whole mission of the Bible from the very first prophesy that the "seed" of the woman will crush the head of the "seed' of the Devil. The seed of the Devil is an actual bloodline, but the seed of the woman is Jesus, son of the woman, spoken of in the prophesy, Mary. So in order to be a part of the seed of the woman, since neither Jesus nor Mary had any more children, it involves an adoption process of sorts, a spiritual adoption. So that's why the family/spiritual model seems appropriate for the church, because we are all adopted into salvation, if we so choose. It's an adoption process. If I could sum the whole Bible up in one word, it would be "adoption."
Church leaders who like the sexism advocated by Paul then further go on to further alienate millions by trying to substitute Paul for Jesus. Many church leaders try to say that Paul finished the work that Jesus failed to complete in an attempt to glorify Paul to the position of co-savior. I believe that many churches do this because they like Paul's comments about women, and wish to keep women under control. And then these same churches go on further to try to make Paul into some kind of co-savior, as if Jesus' work was not sufficient. These types of churches give Jesus some superflous lip service, then get on to what they really like, that is, Paul. I've even heard some preachers say to ignore the rest of the New Testament, and concentrate on Paul. This is ridiculous because Jesus is the savior of everybody, and he left nothing incomplete or imperfect needing to be corrected by Paul! The other day, I saw a video with the supposition that it was Paul who actually invented the Christian religion! This mistake has led into Replacement Theology, the belief that Jesus came to save the Jews, but Paul, considered Jesus' equal, is said to have saved the Gentiles! And from there, Replacement Theology has taken the ugly turn to conclude that God has given up on the Jews and that Gentiles have replaced them as God's chosen people. So some churches who are pushing Replacement Theology, and using Paul falsely to do it. Ironically, Paul was the first one to tell people NOT to worship him. When he cured some people in a village, the people there wanted to worship him, but he told them not to.
Paul was not God, he was just a man. He made a mistake in applying the Mosaic law to women. And you know what, most of the disciples made mistakes--like when all of them except John betrayed Jesus and denied him at his Crucifixion. Paul was actually a murderer before Jesus changed him. So none of the apostles were perfect. But, you know what, neither are any of us. The fact that none of them were perfect does not detract from the work that they did to spread the faith to the world. So Paul's mistakes about women do not cancel the importance of the work he did for Christ.
But some preachers and even some priests love Paul because they want to control women and don't care if they alienate half of the human race from God, as long as their own egos are satisfied. As long as their own egos are satisfied, they feel good if women turn away, these preachers and some priests like to get rid of women who are not completely under control.
Hm. I think it's strange to condemn sacred scripture, deep with Trinitarian significance in this instance, as sexist. Sexism and sexual equality are part of secular dogma and often gets prioritized over church teaching by its members, so I would be careful which one you are advocating more fervently. I'm not interested in dunking on Pope Francis, but I would not trust his liberal theology to reinterpret scripture and just the words of an apostle as rigid or sexist. The last thing God's Word needs is a modern reinterpretation.
@@alanparker5224 Hmmm. . . I think it's strange to contradict Jesus in favor Paul's reliance on Mosaic law regarding women when Jesus had such extensive and rich teachings on women. We've had five covenants and seven dispensations in Biblical history, and you are saying that nothing has changed for women since Mosaic law? Jesus solved this disagreement over 2,000 years ago when he accepted both traditionalist women (Martha) and non-traditionalist women (Mary). After all, there were both traditionalist women and non-traditionalist women with him at The Cross--when all of his male disciples except John had deserted him.
I think it's strange that the men in the church who are worried about women's lack of submissiveness are not worried about the many men who don't pay child support or support their children emotionally. Don't you think you should worry about some real problems instead of what you consider an affront to your ego? Check the statistics and the tax payments to support the large numbers of children raised in single parent homes, that is, by the mother alone. This doesn't seem to bother a good deal of men in the church, who are worried that women are not submissive.
If you don't like Pope Francis, try Pope John Paul II's (that is, Saint John Paul II's) letter on the dignity of women where he advocates "mutual submission" "in love and responsibility."
@@alanparker5224 Your comment begs the question of why then were Paul's comments left in the Bible, that is, were included in sacred scripture, if these said comments by Paul are in contradiction to Jesus' teachings. I think that the Holy Spirit inspired that these comments by Paul be retained in the Bible because God wants everybody. As Fr. Mike Schmitz so eloquently used the grammatically incorrect double negative to describe it, "There's no one that God doesn't want." So God wants everybody, and he wants all to convert, even those people of sexist/misogynist societies, to come to Christ. Who are these sexist/misogynist societies who would reject Christ out of hand if they knew about Christ's liberating teachings regarding women? I would say these societies are people of Muslim countries or societies, they would also include such populations as the less educated people in third world countries. But these people who would reject Christ were it not for Paul's sexist comments also include highly educated men in Western societies, men who have no idea of how to be a man except by putting women down and controlling women. But God wants them all! So these men, and the women who are in the situation of having to live under the heel of such said men, come to Christianity for Paul--but eventually it's hoped that they "get it" and come to Christ. (Actually, come to think of it, isn't this what happens to all of us--we come to Christianity broken, flawed people, in whatever area of life, in the hopes that we will "get it" and discover Christ, and be healed.) So that's why, I think, that the Holy Spirit, in his wisdom, let Paul's sexist and misogynist statements in the Bible stand. And I wouldn't second guess the Holy Spirit. I'm not for taking Paul out of the Bible, also, because he did a lot of work for Christ, so we can't throw the baby out with the bath water here.
@@Sylvia-of9hj While I don't think anyone is claiming that all characters of the bible are perfect people, it is a big thing to come up with these miniature personalized theologies around verses that are uncomfortable or troubling. Jesus never said for women not to submit to their wives. He simply never said anything about it. Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit and was clearly inspired to teach and interpret scripture, even to the point of correcting the pontiff, Peter, when he found him to be in error. The Church has a deeply symbolic understanding of men and women as a reflection of Christ and His Church: Christ leads His Church. Christ teaches His Church. Christ loves and protects His Church. Much of that Theology is built around these passages. This is hardly an oppressive patriarchy: it is an interpretation of the cosmos.
Perhaps Paul was sexist (I don't think he was), but to be looking at Sacred Scripture with that eye would bring about new skepticisms that undermine even more theology and tradition. Heck, Jesus chose 12 apostles, all of whom are men. Mary is the Immaculate Conception, and Mary Magdalen stayed closer to Our Lord than almost anyone else, but He did not choose a woman. Is that sexist? Is that a blatant inequity? If Jesus came now instead of 2000 years ago, would the cast be more diverse?
I think not. He came at the fullness of time, and His apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit, such that they were able to teach a radical Gospel, which never really cared about the fashions of the times. To bring a modern eye to critique these saints may be an interesting thought experiment, but I'm afraid it ends up pretty fruitless. If a man is to be the priest of his household, he has to be able to be the leader, just as the woman is to be the heart of the home, the nurturer of life, and the purpose for the man's leadership.
Like I said, I am not here to make fun, and I am not saying that what you say is impossible. But it does seem cavalier, and it subverts a good bit of Mariology, Christology, and Ecclesiology that take these things to be good and beautiful, not oppressive and problematic.
@@alanparker5224
Re.: You say "Jesus never said for women not to submit to their wives" (I'm assuming you meant husbands.). Jesus also never said even one word about abortion. So, by his silence on the subject, are you taking that to mean that Jesus approves of abortion? Jesus' actions and words towards women that I've cited speak for themselves. AndJesus plainly said that his pronouncements on women were different from Mosaic/Torah law when Jesus told a group of men who were asking why his statements on divorce, for example, were different from Mosaic Law (the Torah), and Jesus answered that in the time of Moses that men's hearts were more hardened.
You say "Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit and was clearly inspired to teach and interpret scripture." The Bible interprets itself, and Paul is not authorized to write his own version if it contradicts Jesus and the rest of the Bible. Even from the Old Testament, there were women teachers (Hulda), prophetesses/leaders (Deborah). And women communicated directly with God, as when Rebekka asked why Jacob and Esau fought in her womb, and God gave her an answer. She did not have to "ask her husband." Then there's the New Testament, where God says that in end times that "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy."
You ask an interesting question about why Jesus did not appoint female apostles. Jesus only chose male apostles because BEFORE HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS the blood laws regarding women were still in effect. And Jesus chose these apostles before his sacrifice on The Cross. Maybe you're wondering what I'm talking about with the phrase the blood laws. In Mosaic law, women were prohibited from worshipping with men for example. (At one instance, Paul leads a group of women in worship separate from men.) The old Mosaic law, the Torah, was because of women's menstruation because the presence of blood when combined with ritual invocation, attracts demonic entities. In Jewish law, women had specific rituals, including special baths called Mikvahs that they had to do when menstruating. Remember the woman with the issue of blood in the New Testament? (I'm guessing she probably had uterine cancer, because a constant period is the main symptom of this disease.) She had to live separately, and alone, away from her family. In Jewish law, one could not even sit in the same spot as a menstruating woman. And even Mary and Jesus had to go through a period of purification after his birth before they could enter the Temple. That's because during childbirth, there's blood all over the place. So Mary and Jesus could not enter the Temple until a suitable period of time had passed for purification. Also, recall the possessed man who lived in the Tombs in Mark 5, whom Jesus healed of "legion" of demons. This man who lived in the tombs did what? He constantly cut himself--the blood attracted and fed the demonic entities.
Jesus couldn't take the chance to annoint a female apostle before his blood sacrifice because of this issue of blood with women, menstruation. Remember, that the Devil was on the attack against the Apostles, succeeding in possessing Judas, so even men were vulnerable, but not as vulnerable as women before Christs' sacrifice on the Cross.
So before Jesus' sacrifice on The Cross, even women who accepted him as Savior were not yet covered by his blood, and therefore were still under rules of the Torah regarding worship and the presence of women's blood, that is, menstruation. It's interesting that menstruation has been called "the curse." So women could not have served as apostles, conducting religious ceremonies, before Jesus sacrificed his blood, and before he gave the Eucharist and declared the Communion to be the consumption of his flesh and his blood. So now, after Jesus' sacrifice, women are covered by the blood of Jesus, and are filled with his flesh and his blood, so the old blood laws of Mosaic/Torah law are not necessary. This is one of the reasons I consider women's wearing of a veil to worship to be an insult to Jesus. Paul said for women to wear the veil "because of the angels." Paul thought he was protecting women from the sexual advances of fallen angels. But if I am covered by Jesus' blood, and filled with his body and his blood, then what's a veil supposed to be able to do for me?
However, Jesus allowed himself to be annointed with oil by women I think on three occasions. And annointing with oil is considered a priestly function. One incident I'm remembering is when a woman washed his feet in expensive oil with her hair. And another time, he met a woman when traveling and she annointed him with oil.
So who knows? Maybe Jesus appointed male apostles to serve as the prototypes for priests, although not all of the apostles were celibate. Or maybe he wanted the Church to be symbolic of a spiritual family support system for people, and the church does have offices of people with familial titles, such as father, mother, sister, brother. Maybe women would never be allowed to be priests, because the preparation of the Eucharist still requires celibacy from the priest, so maybe women's menstruation would still be a factor, if say, a menstruating woman priest were in a state of mortal sin, and was performing Communion? Before the Fall in the Garden, Adam and Eve did not have blood. You'll recall, that when presented with Eve, Adam said that Eve was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Today, when we say we are related to somebody, we describe the person as our flesh and BLOOD, not our flesh and BONE. So Adam and Eve did not have blood coursing through their veins before the Fall. The presence of blood indicates a fallen state, that's why occultists and demons worship with blood, both animal and human.
Another way in which Paul insults Jesus? When Paul says that women are saved through childbearing! Women, and everybody, are saved through Jesus Christ! There is no other way to be saved, not through works or childbearing. And if women are saved through childbearing, then why didn't Jesus tell Mary Magdalene this?
You say that people understand the marital relationship as that mirroring Christ with his church symbolized by a bride. But this is only some symbolism, and I think only used by Paul. And the "bride," that is, the church, consists of men as well as women, so the bride analogy is not meant to be literal.
You claim that Paul's remarks about women (that are based on the outmoded Jewish Torah and Mosaic law which Paul was following regarding women) are "a good bit of Mariology, Christology, and Ecclesiology that take these things to be good and beautiful, not oppressive and problematic," but much of Paul's writings are bracketed in the missal in church in the Novus Ordo masses, especially Ephesians V:22-24. So many do find Paul's insulting comments about women to be oppressive and problematic. And the brackets are there because of Jesus' attitude that if some want to live this way, or if other women are not traditionalists, then he loves and accepts both types of women. He accepted both types of women at The Cross, with Mary his mother, the more traditionalist women, and Mary Magdalene, the nontraditionalist woman. He accepted both Martha (the traditionalist women) and Mary, the non-traditionalist, and defended Mary's right to study under him, while at the same time not criticizing Martha.
Papi. What are you saying? Speak clear and simply plz.
Ephesians 5:21-33 - a highly problematic passage in our postmodern times. It builds a theological argument based on social mores that have transformed over time. The description of the relationship between Christ and his Church is not in dispute. It is rather the relationship between husband and wife that is put forward as normative. In this respect it is problematic. Human authority is subject to abuse in our fallen world, and the same is only too true of the exercise of authority by the husband in a marriage. It's best to read the passage, I believe, first, as an artifact of historical social mores. Second, as the description of a worthy ideal. Third, not as an absolute norm but rather as a salutary framework adaptable according to the diversity of our human condition, with due regard for a genuinely Christian ethos. Let's step away from a literalist reading of every verse in Scripture.
Postmodernism is antithetical to Catholocism, so let's not allow that philosophy to influence our interpretation of Scripture.
@@phoult37 How would you define postmodernism?
@@josephgonzales1815 My quick-take definition is a philosophy that stems from Nominalism and denies grand narrative, eternal Truth, etc. It views language and rhetoric as mere tools for power and control and even rejects the traditional rules of logic (such as the principle of non-contradiction).
How do you define it?
@@phoult37 That's a good description of postmodernism, you understand more than I expected.
Basically, postmodernism is antifoundationalism. In this respect, yes, of course it is antirealism and it undermines the Roman Catholic or RC faith.
However, some interpretations of the RC faith are unwarrantedly absolutist and fundamentalist. In this respect, the methods - not the assumptions - of postmodernism, which is a type of neo-Marxism, are warranted. We should not propound dogmas where they do not exist.
I stand by my interpretation of the relevant verses: they should not be treated in an absolute sense. There are obviously situations, for example, where the will of the husband is not the most beneficial for the family. I am against a fundamentalist interpretation.
@@josephgonzales1815 Who in a family decides whatâs best for it?
It's no wonder people are leaving the church in droves. These words were written by men, not by Jesus! Jesus respected women and spent time in their company. Mary and Martha were his friends. We now know that there were gospels written by women but these were never acknowledged. The church has treated women disgracefully down through the centuries. Remember "churching" where women had to be cleansed after having a baby and that's not too long ago? Did the men have no role in creating the baby? Furthermore, the church undermined the role of Mary Magdalene as an apostle to that of a prostitute, simply because she was close to Jesus and caused jealousy among the male apostles. It is now known that she was wealthy and supported Jesus in his ministry. Those men who wrote about the role of women were flawed and of their time, where women were seen as chattels. Men have caused more trouble in the world than women. What century are you in? This conversation makes me want to walk away from this patriarchial institution.
Makes me want to walk away too. Too many porn-obsessed men salivating over their favorite âsubmissionâ passages of the Bible, instead of focusing on the parts of the Bible that tell them what kind of husbands they need to be.
Please don't attribute sexist interpretations to God's creation.
Itâs not sexist that God CREATED (good word there) order in a family. If this triggers you. Youâre disordered and where thereâs disorder there is Satan
Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent
The Duties of Married People
The more easily to preserve the holy state (of marriage) from dissensions, the duties of husband and wife as inculcated by St. Paul and by the Prince of the Apostles must be explained.
Duties Of A Husband
It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.
The husband should also be constantly occupied in some honest pursuit with a view to provide necessaries for the support of his family and to avoid idleness, the root of almost every vice.
He is also to keep all his family in order, to correct their morals, and see that they faithfully discharge their duties.
Duties Of A Wife
On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord.
To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband's consent.
Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.
Ben Sira 26:1-3,16-19,24
[1]HAPPY is the husband of a good wife: for the number of his years is double.
[2]A virtuous woman rejoiceth her husband: and shall fulfil the years of his life in peace.
[3]A good wife is a good portion, she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds.
[16]The grace of a diligent woman shall delight her husband, and shall fat his bones.
[17]Her discipline is the gift of God.
[18]Such is a wise and silent woman, and there is nothing so much worth as a well instructed soul.
[19]A holy and shamefaced woman is grace upon grace.
[24]As everlasting foundations upon a solid rock, so the commandments of God In the heart of a holy woman.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
[9]In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire:
[10]But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
[11]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
[12]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
[13]Adam was first formed; then Eve.
[14]And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 3:4-5,11
[4]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
[5]But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
[11]The women in like manner: chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
1 Corinthians 11:3,7-9
[3]But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
[7]The man indeed ought not to cover his head: because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
[8]For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
[9]For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Titus 2:3-5,9
[3]The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well:
[4]That they may teach the young women to be wise, to love their husbands, to love their children.
[5]To be discreet, chaste, sober, having a care of the house, gentle, obedient to their husbands: that the word of God be not blasphemed.
[9]Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters: in all things pleasing, not gainsaying:
1 Peter 3:1-7
[1]In like manner also, let wives be subject to their husbands: that, if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives,
[2]Considering your chaste conversation with fear.
[3]Whose adorning, let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:
[4]But the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit which is rich in the sight of God.
[5]For after this manner heretofore, the holy women also who trusted in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
[6]As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well and not fearing any disturbance.
[7]Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33
[22]Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
[23]Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
[24]Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
[33]Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular love for his wife as himself: And let the wife fear her husband.
Colossians 3:18-21
[18]Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord.
[19]Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter towards them.
[20]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
[21]Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.