The Philosophy of Disco Elysium: Psychoanalysis, Ideology, and Absurd Modernism
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Disco Elysium, an award-winning game from developer ZA/UM, created what I would consider one of the most brilliant pieces of interactive literature in recent memory. For this, we explore its foundational philosophy and narrative(s) throughout.
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Timestamp:
Intro: 0:00
Determinism: 2:53
Psychoanalysis of Harry: 9:01
Elysium as Honest Reality: 18:20
Absurd Modernism: 23:22
A Message: 32:55
![Judicial Opinions: What Makes Disco Elysium a Modern Classic? [Full Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n_7ngJDbUQE/mqdefault.jpg)
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This game is depressing and sad, but I actually felt hopeful and happy when I finished it.
Harry is a train wreck, but he can try and change his life for the best, he can gain trust and friendship of an amazing person, he can let go of his traumatic break up, he can be forgiven by his colleagues, he can help people. And even in a place like Revachol a true miracle can happen.
Amen
I think thats the undertone of the game really, its hopeful, but realistically so,
it doesent try to pretend that you can be a human trainwreck for the better part of two decades then say a few magic words and fix everything, but it does show that the option to make incremental improvements is *always* there, and on a long enough timeline, enough of those improvements will eventually lead to good. Not overnight, but its worth the discomfort of each step because with enough of them things will eventually be ok.
Man i think my Harry was too wild to have that takeaway from it. He was a spiraling maniac, passing out in front of Kim, helping kids to set up a drug lab - being accepted back into his precinct but only because he can still get the a job done - he was still a massive liability. And most of all - certainly not able to get let go of his traumatic break up. Is there an ending where he is able to do this? Maybe there's a different way you can navigate the dialog with Dolores Dei?
@@rited there is a way to avoid dream about her completely and not even remember Dora through the game. This way Harry will just have a nap with no dreams.
@@therideneverends1697 They say it takes a mile of walking to walk a mile. each step is one step closer
Gart is a manager, not a bartender... he says so specifically, manages three different places.
And Klasje isn't just an overeducated liberal arts major, I'm not even sure if she's actually a corporate spy, but her real name certainly isn't Klasje.
@@jasonrobinson401 Yeah who knows who she really is or who is really after her, or why.
Almost everything she says is a lie or half truth, the more you learn the less that adds up.
If you arrest her she "dies in custody" so she wasn't lieing that powerful people are after her and she is in danger.
But apart from that.... She's a ghost.
"the historic opportunity for a revolution has passed. It will not come back any more. However hard I try, whatever I do." Goddamn, this level of unhappy consciousness is soul wrenching.
Life goes on.
As long as class dynamics exist, revolution will exist. He's got the any more part wrong.
@@kkounal974 absolutely, might not be tomorrow, it might not be in a singular moment, but the time and opportunity will come again. All there is to do is study the mistakes of our forbears, spread class consciousness, and organize. You are not alone comrades.
@@serialthrilliayahoo But not in that character's life, and that's what matters to him. And if we think that doesn't matter, maybe we'll sympathize more with him once we're too old to see any change. This will matter to us too, eventually.
@@Crowborn whatever happened to planting trees who's shade only our children will enjoy. Your line of thought in many ways lead to much of the problems in the world today. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
"The game likes to point out the egotistical fetish we have towards political identification today. The notion that someone is only as good as their "politics"." - this..... this really hit me. It's such an important line
Disco Elysium is about ideologies, not people. Fascism is depicted as the worst ideology.
@@firet2745 Disco Elysium is first and foremost about people. And people can not be people sans ideology. Because it forms the reality we share. And we cannot be subjects just in ourselves, we need others. However, explicit ideology; ideology that is still not yet dominant in our unconscious automation. The one that we have to enunciate and not just enact, is not the most important part of any particular person. There is more to us, even if we cannot be without it. That last point is what I read in that quote. Kim Kitsuragi being the epitome of that; "just a good human being". A radical acceptance of difference.
And yet given that, most of the fandom communities of this game consists mostly of commies who happily brag about their ideology and are ready to mop you to the ground if you dare to enjoy the game while having different political opinions irl
Who are you without political identification? Thats your outward expression of your beliefs, the idea that politics and the individual can be separate is childish, your politics are part of what makes your individual
Disco Elysium: the heaviest shit I have experienced playing a game
Also Disco Elysium: "Hi my name is Harry. I'm an ultra-liberal fascist moralist communist how are you"
Truer than true.
He is also Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau, Icebreaker, and Harrier Du Bois. Disco.
@@GGPlex_ dont forget Firewalker and Dick Mullen
Communard is an actual English word, not invented by the game. It's just what the communists of the Paris Commune called themselves
I mean Joyce is kinda morally abhorrent. She is not unpleasant to be around, hell, compared to Evrart she is downright lovely, but the problem here is: Joyce still works for a company that keeps Martinese how it is. She is aware of her position in the system, yet she still resigns herself to be a cog in the machine. Evrart I think, is her perfect foil, he is not a perfect person by any means, but despite his slimy demeanor, despite all his overt powerplays, despite all that, he has made Martinese livable, he keeps it running in a way that betters people lives. He gave a job, a basically esthetic job, to a person that wouldve shot him, if it was up to him, just to preserve a veterans pride, just because he knew Rene would struggle if he didn't had help, and he knew Rene wouldnt accept a hand out. Does he play dirty? Yes, absolutely, but in the end, do his actions benefit the community and make it a better place? I think so. I know I would prefer to live in a city ruled by Evrart then one run by Joyce.
as menana said youd rather have a corrupt guy helping you than a corrupt guy just skimming your wages
This is a fantastic analysis of Evrart. He’s presented as a disgusting slug, and of course he’s a freak, but his actions are in the interest of his landing spot.
He reminds me of Al Swearengen in Deadwood.
@@grgfrais1866 Maybe I missed something, or am misremembering, but doesn't he try to get rid of everyone living on the coast through the construction project? Like the rec center would be cool, but I'm not sure that justifies trying to trick the people living there into signing a petition that would harm them.
I heard "moved to affordable housing" but didnt complete the quest personally bc vibe seemed evil@thesnowmiser6728
The question also lies, if Wild Pines leaves then would Martinese be a better place? Like every country that has a revolution, it's s always worse off in the end because the ones controlling everything can't anymore and the ones taking over aren't capable of taking over.
The game is just so thought provoking.
I have the Whirling in Rags 8 am theme as an alarm clock. i literally flinched in the intro hahaha
This was incredible - the display of knowledge and sensitivity of the reading was another level. You've got a new patreon supporter in me. Thank you!
Incredibly kind. Compliment, and support! Thanks so much. Incredibly glad you enjoyed!
Awesome video as always! I'd just like to add that the concept of a "lack" is pretty foundational to existentialism and absurdism as well. It's one of the main points of Sartre's 'Being and Nothingness', strongly parallels Camus' view of the absurd in 'the myth of Sisyphus', and is important in Simone de Beauvoir's 'Ethics of Ambiguity'. The Lacanian approach is definitely useful and well articulated here, I just wanted to add that part.
Also I know this was a spoiler free video but I'd also like to add, without getting into specific spoilers, that this lack plays a big role in the metaphysics in the world of DE. The white pale in my opinion is a physical representation of the lack. Seeing as it appears to absorb matter, turning it into a void filled only with estranged glimpses of pure consciousness which drives the people who enter it insane (unless given the proper psychological training), and the fact it only appeared in the world once conscious humans appeared
Great video as always, I just wanted to expand on it a little
Right, the lack was mainly seen through Harry and the Expression, and the pale (which I didn't mention for spoiler reasons.) Lack wasn't my core argument against an existential reading of Disco Elysium. My ultimate point was that (while not denying forms of free-will) there are levels of determinism and lack of control signaled throughout this game, which existentialism seems to be fairly anti-thetical to from my readings.
Always appreciate the comment and further context! Solid points.
Since my fields of interest are mainly Sociology and Political sciences, I interpreted Disco Elysium from a completely different perspective.
I can confirm: It is just as magnificent from that perspective.
A true masterpiece.
Also, it made me cry about 50 times.
Disco Elysium is a video game through and through, its not more like a book than a video game. The medium it has most in common are table top role playing games, its probably the closest you can make a video game resemble a TTRPG.
So yea, minuscule nitpick because im still salty after years of ''walking simulator'' debates, great video though, liked and subscribed.
That study that tried to conclude that neutrons firing before our actions proved lack of free will was disproven because the scientist involved used flawed research procedure
I am a great fan of your channel …….right now I am in the middle of something really hectic …..I will be done in 2 weeks ……I can’t wait to start my journey into philosophy
You sir have really motivated me ……can’t thank you enough
I really love that, for all the ribbing at communism's expense in the game, the game takes a proud and firm stance in its favor. Not just because a video game being proudly political is rare in itself, but that it demonstrates, carefully and systematically, how DE's world is crumbling beneath capital.
That Revachol used to be a vibrant and beautiful city before the coalition, that it's now been exploited to such a degree by groups like wild pines that poverty is rampant, kids are getting high to escape their misery, and the most left wing org in the whole game is made of up a union pushing for social democratic restructuring, while being headed by cynical and mercenary businessmen.
"I really love that, for all the ribbing at communism's expense in the game, the game takes a proud and firm stance in its favor."
You're exactly right with this, and it's great. Such a beautiful work of art this game is.
I think maybe the only problem I have with the game is that, in its fictional reality corruption and ineffectiveness play no part in the communism equivalent's demise.
I have no problem with this as story, but it certainly invites to a parallel in reality. And in reality the rasons for the downfall of communists states is very complex, but certainly involved corruption, inefficiency and a fair amount of suppression of individual liberties.
I guess it's fair, in the sense that we only ever hear about this communism-equivalent through the opinions and experiences of those who supported it... but it would've been nice to have a more nuanced picture, one that made more sense in the face of the actual fate of communism.
@@VMLM3 That's fair, although it is strongly implied that the socialist People's Republic of Samara is facing exactly the issues you describe and the Deserter calls it a "degenerate worker state". It's only mentioned in passing though so it's easy to miss.
@@VMLM3 The Commune of Revachol, or the equivalent state of Graad for that matter, never had enough time to be properly established like the Soviet Union, or the PROC, or other socialist states. The downfall of the Soviet Union in real life is very complex and multi-faceted, whereas in Disco Elysium the failure of the Revolution is simple; it got crashed violently by a World Coalition after a handful of years, 6 if I remember correctly. That's why there's no talk of "corruption" or "ineffectiveness" within the Commune. There never was enough time for them to get relevant inside the system.
I don't wanna assume, but I think you're getting a little touchy with the subject matter, trying to find ways why the Commune of Revachol was/would be bad, actually, and thinking the game idolizes it.
first video I have seen of yours. I really loved Disco Elysium so that is how I found it. will def watch more of your stuff. I would love to hear more about Disco Elysium, maybe a spoiler full version.
Welcome aboard!
There are only a few games where I cried when I finished them. Disco Elysium was the only one where I truly meant it. It genuinely felt cathartic.
If I ever start my music CZcams channel, I'll make sure to cite you in my "The people that inspired me to follow my passion" video 💚
I much appreciate your work, man.
That's incredibly kind. If there's anything I'd hope to impart on this channel it's to go out and create stuff!
I would love to get your analysis on Planescape: Torment now! It’s one of the games that heavily inspired Disco Elysium. In fact, Harry’s arc is very similar to the nameless one (the protagonist of torment)
It would be awesome if you made a video analysis of Kentucky route zero. That game moved me like no other vg. Also Plancescape torment (which was the inspiration for Disco Elysium) would be interesting. I haven't played it in a long time, but I distinctly remember that each faction in the game world was basically a philosophical school in disguise.
Philosophy + my favorite game of all time, hell yes
Haha !
a week after i finished the game? you are thee greatest
disco elysium was such a trip and so heavy. absolute masterpiece and totally original game that had me feeling funny for about a year. shook me to my core.
The ending I got with Kim and the phasmid was an existential crisis that left me weird for a while
The “synapses fire in our brain before we come to a decision, thus free will is a myth” always seemed like the dumbest argument to me. Having a delay in time between decision and acting on that decision is not a lack of decision. The fact that you need to think of what you’re going to say before you say it doesn’t mean you didn’t choose what to say.
@B W so they say a subconscious exists? That’s not a very revolutionary claim
The original experiment showed that neurons would fire before people would conciously be aware they made a decision, thus it could be shown that the brain was making a decision and then we get the feeling of making the decision ourselves later on, approappiating the decision of predictable firing of neurons to a free will decision. The experiment was flawed but the reasoning is not absurd.
This is wonderful content. I'm so happy you talked about this game, it really gave me depth to the game to think about
This is the best video about this game on CZcams.
Hey thanks so much
Great video! I'm in the middle of my first run through DE and it's one of the best games I've ever played, and probably the smartest game I've ever played. It's a game that I think about even when I'm not playing.
Wonderfully said.
honestly your really underrated
Thank goodness someone has the guts to say free will is not a given truth.
Every choice you make is impacted by your biology and experience. You and by extension your decisions are a product of these factors.
As a child I thought free will was a given. 'I make choices, I mean I'm choosing to even consider this.'
But as I got older and learned more about psychology, the impacts of trauma, neuroscience etc I realized every choice I've ever made has been a result of biology and experience.
You got a new sub.
Awesome, I had no idea this was released btw despite ringing the bell, good 'ol youtube...
Anyway, the first section on determinism, I always liked Marx's interpretation which basically summarizes what you present, that we make our own history but _not_ on our own terms.
_"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."_
super moved by this video essay. it really proves (and inspires) my as-of-yet undetermined master's thesis and what I now know will be Freudian/Lacanian theoretical basis. thanks!
ey how your thesis going and did it change
@@mimos7214 due on the 15th of January--the proposal, that is. it is constantly changing, but in good ways. thanks for asking!
i just finished the game and as a binoclard myself the constant references to hegel marx and even husserl/heidegger really tickled my brain so i’m glad to have stumbled across this vid, late as i am to it lol
(also LESS THAN NOTHING!! PALE FIRE!!!)
Gotta get this game
Who else rebuilt communism in this game?
Me.
Lets get those firing squads going. Cant make communism without breaking a billion eggs
Me.
My second name is literally Lenin, so me.
Not me as a noble sufferer 😎
Not even I want to suffer as much as what communism does to people 😎😏
Amazing video Epoch! It's beautiful to see a video game tackle philosophy not with distant cynicism, but with sincere bravery. I feel there's so much potential in gaming for changing people's view of the world. It's an embodied practice, like writing, so touches a different part of our being.
I hope we get more games that ditch the cold dead formulaic structures. But of course, by their nature, they can only come from minority cultures
Excelente video
Video essay opens with quoting Zizek. this had better be good
This is fascinating. I'm definitely going to have to experience the game.
You absolutely should. It's wonderful.
I second this
Awesome video. The mispronunciation of Revachol got me every time, though. It’s RE-vah-shol
This is one of the best video essays on the game I've seen, criminally underrated.
good shit Epoch
godly timing bought the game on sale a few days ago and finished it today and i srsly was thinking abt how someone might analyze it from a lacanian or zizek(ian?) pov
I understand no connected thesis from this essay. I wouldn’t call several musings “the philosophy of disco elysium just in video form.”. It is possible to explain the Lacanian aspects of the writing of the game as well as their connection to the politics of it in word form, as the youtuber Kybitzed did in a video sharing the title of this one a year ago.
Who else deliberately chose to never get rid of "the expression" and decided to go by Tequila Sunset?
great video. thats the kind of video i want to make as well.... glad to see some philosophical examination on this gem
Cool stuff! I enjoyed a lot of points, but I was confused at many parts.
I think the free will vs mechanistic determinism argument is a bit dated in the 21st century. In particular, the twin concepts of neuroplasticity and adult neurogenesis put the nail in the coffin of mechanistic determinism.
Neuroplasticity is the concept that the brain is both the seat from which our thinking, decisions, and reactions arise, but also is continually "plastic", unfixed, not static, but instead continually being reconfigured by our experiences, our thinking and outlook, our responses to our existence. If the brain is the mechanistic determinant of our consciousness, then its neuroplastic nature makes each of us the author of our brains. We exist in a continual loop of (present state, the sum of all our previous experiences and our interpretations of them) giving rise to reactions and then a (new present state where the new experience and our interpretations of it create a next state), or constantly evolving self.
Neurogenesis is the growth of new neurons, not just neuronal connections. Studies have positively demonstrated that neurogenesis occurs throughout our entire lives; adult neurogenesis. It is not, as was previously believed, a phenomenon only that ends after adolescent development.
I believe these new understandings of our conscious processes reveal that mechanistic determinism is an outdated philosophical hypothesis (polemic) based on a more primitive understanding of neuronal processes as a static state, or worse, one capable in adulthood only of degeneration. This is one case where I think the philosophers need to catch up to the neuroscience research. Consciousness begets agency and agency begets reflection and, thus, new consciousness.
There is a nice pop-science overview of neuroplasticity laid out in Train Your Mind, Change Your Brain, by Sharon Begley (2007, Penguin-Random House). The science has advanced considerably in the intervening 16 years, but it's still a solid starting point.
www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/10781/train-your-mind-change-your-brain-by-sharon-begley/
Cheers!
Oh, PS: DISCO ELYSIUM is a completely kick-ass game and should be de rigueur fodder for any philosophy, creative writing, or literature class. I couldn't agree more that it's philosophical commentary is richly presented through demonstration, rather than simple abstraction. Great stuff!
Hello, I hope you don't mind me asking, but what are your personal political beliefs ?
May I ask what music in the begin?
Showing SLAVOJ ŽlŽEK
All music is the Disco Elysium OST!
I agree in the sense that Disco Elysium embodies some deterministic structure over existential - but I think within a story, or a game in this case - 'we the player' are not the counterpoint to this determinism. I would think it is more accurate to register the narrative itself as the determinism. The game presents 'choices' to a player - sure - but there are only so many. Regardless of which combination you make, many of the games' key sequences take place regardless, with your choices often making ripples in the story, rarely waves. Harry isn't aware of the player, any more than a protagonist of a novel is aware of the reader.
Traditional RPG games often as you say, embody existential traits, where you shape a character from the ground up and choose their path through the world. Here your job is to aid Harry in dealing what was already there, what has gone before, and was was always bound to pass. I would say the sequence of wiping the steam from the mirror in the beginning is perhaps symbolic of the entire game; the fear, the inner discourse, the suffering, and the choice to go on regardless.
Thanks for a great video on this amazing game that actual endeavours to go beyond just reciting the plot to me.
Alright here we go! Been a while man
Hopefully, this video showcases why. Hands down the toughest video I have made.
thoughts on metamodernism?
I've lost my memory because I was hopelessly poor - that was hilarious thought
It’s an expression of pain
That sweet, sweet lack.
Completely disagree about New Vegas not putting it's politics at the forefront, the game very much wears it's heart on it's sleeve in that regard.
Yep
25:47 that's a very dangerous thing to say and I surprised that someone who follows Zizek fell for a something like that. "Absurd authenticity", you are just romanticizing misery.
25:53
How do you know this?
I place this comment on the altar of youtube's algorithm
Can someone share a link or give the name of the music at first 30 seconds
All the music in this is Disco Elysium's OST.
@@epochphilosophy I searched a 4 hours long Disco Elysium OST music vid and couldn't find this track 🥲
@@mohamedabdalla1655 it is the 'whirling in rags' daytime track from the OST
@@lurox5183 I searched again and it was 'Instrument of Surrender' track. Thanks!
@@mohamedabdalla1655 the whole OST is so perfectly matched to the world they've created. Love that track though!
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit i moved to new zealand, what you would mostly think is great and these themes are growing and present. at least we have words for how we are all going to feel.
A bit late but i think you would like nier automata, its also pretty philosophical
I love Kim 😍
❤
I haven't even played the game yet but I watched some (the non spoiler section) of Jacob Gellars analysis of it and I feel like just even hearing some of the music from the game speaks volumes of it's phycological and philosophical framework.
I remember seeing a screenshot of the many skills and couldn't help but also think of the archetypes in the collective unconscious that Carl Jung expounded on.
I personally find I agree with Albert Camus existentialist subview, Absurdism. My daily thinking is highly influenced by Jung though, however I know the latter is a study of the psyche while the former is a view of existence. No matter, I definitely look forward to playing finally (downloading now).
You won't regret it. Oddly enough, just saw PC Gamer ranks it #1 PC game at the moment.
@@epochphilosophy I'm confident it deserves it. Which again is a bold statement as I haven't actually experienced it myself yet. I've had it actively on my radar for a couple of years just haven't had the means to play until now with the Switch release. I feel familiar with the title without actually knowing any spoilers which is cool.
Also, forgot to mention, outstanding video and presentation, man. Glad I randomly came across you. Subbed.
@@TheFos88 Thanks friend, very glad you enjoyed!
Ngl, I finished Disco Elysium a while ago. It's... self-discovery. As much of the poor bastard as ourselves, in a sense.
This game is a master piece! Style, content, thought provoking… and much more. Highly recommended but not for the quick pleasure seekers.
It's been on my list for a while but I still haven't gotten to playing it.
EDIT: Am playing now. Got pissed off at losing a bunch of progress twice.
EDIT 2 SPOILERS:
Was expecting some cosmic event or at least a revolution to tie up the game. Can't say I wasn't disappointed when it actually ended after solving the case (and finding the phasmid). I didn't even get to attend my communist reading group a second time :(
This game is a prequel to a book where a revolution does take place. But the book is only in Estonian.
wow i bought this three days ago and already clocked 20 hours and wanted to dive deeper into the whole thing and then i find this.... coincidences dont exist and the universe works in mysterious ways :)
This is a great analisys, but I would like to point out the following: People don't talk about politics this freely in your country. In Argentina almost every conversation revolves around politics, even more so when there is something overtly political happening such as a strike or a "piquete" (when the routes are bloquaded due to measures of force by the people). And I believe that in most third world countries the normalization of political speech is more common than in first world countries: In ours, politics fuck us over daily; in yours, politics fuck US over daily also
26:03
Bad memories of your upper class upbringing, eh?
In respect of videos games, role-play is widely misunderstood.
The process of experiencing events (and the consequences of interactions) from a perspective other than one's own, is largely lost on most gamers. Some tabletop players can also completely miss the point but it's less frequent.
Worse still, those that do not comprehend the true nature of role-play, stubbornly resist any and all explanation. This is being magnified because the largest and most commonly known studios, those that are presently associated with this "ganre", do not actually produce role-playing games. Dual polarised plotlines or straight-up adventure games, are therefore commonly misinterpreted as containing RP.
The term is utterly ambiguous right now and that's unlikely to change until coding human interaction becomes viable.
While I'm in no way a student of philosophy aside from passing knowledge of common ideas, I do think that the idea of people not having "free will" is absurd without a genuine explanation of *what would* be controlling us.
So.. what would be if its not ourselves?
To continue: I have seen the experiment where the brain impulses arrive fractions of a second before the muscles move, but can't that easily be explained away by the following: The brain sends the impulses. The brain houses all of your cognitive functions, conscious and sub-conscious. YOU are the brain. If it comes to physical action, the brain signal that tells the muscles what to do(contract, shift weight, extend, etc.) Is gonna take a bit of time, no matter how small. That's why reaction time is a measurable thing.
Finally, to compare a videogame character to a real, physical human being in this sense seems a bit of blunder, don't you think? The game is pre-programmed. Responses and actions numbered and set in code. The detective physically cannot think for himself since he isn't real; he's a combination of pixels, a rigged model. Is it fair to compare a videogame avatar, a combination of pixels set on a set path, A to Z, to a real life human being with a conscious brain of his own?
Video games are a tough one for people to take seriously; disco Elysium was fantastic, in a very sort of zizek style. Reminded me of the humor and the sort of fun loving nature applied throughout the story.
If you ever want another game to do a philosophy take on; “Cruelty Squad” is right up your alley. Probably the most deleuzean game out there, and steeped in continental philosophy.
u cant just name drop shit and expect to be taken seriously. "zizek style" "most deleuzean game" "steeped in continental philosophy". what a hegelian comment. very lacanian. ive rolled my eyes so hard theyve done three full revolutions. don't comment again you pseudointellectual dweeb
@@iyze8792 A philosophy video and channel looking at a game steeped in philosophy...with Zizek being a very basic name drop more so associated with his delivery and humor/style...not the substance of his ideas or his writings. As far as cruelty squad...there's an NPC based on Nick Land in the game, which finishes with a Georges Bataille quote, and the creater is well read in the vein of continental philosophy, which is why there are references throughout to all of these various subjects within his game both visually and contextually.
What's the point in acting like that dude?
@@DiamorphineDeath i hate you
@@iyze8792 Go play some nerdy games there sport
I disagree with that kind of philosophy.
Maybe the liberal context we live in biases us to adopt existentialist views but, and this may just be me seeing things that aren't there, this isn't a critique of existentialism itself and it just comes off as dismissal of existentialism because of that, the social context we live in.
Personally i don't and probably can't know about the validity of determinism but so many times i see people just assume that it's the case, while we should really be doing the opposite, betting on the possibility of us having some freedom and control. Doomer-ism is itself a prison, it doesn't necessarily follow that we would be mentally stronger if we accept "hard truths" especially when those truths literally are that we have no strength at all.
Neither does it concerns me personally what the true ontological nature of something is, why would it? All that matters to us, matters subjectively at the end of the day, there is no need to know the ontological nature of something unless you disagree with that.
Of course this is just a reading of the game and a reading isn't less or more valuable than any other reading. But i still think it's a bit of a stretch and generally view the logic flawed.
Everyone needs a Kim
How did you make this video?
Other than self hatred, the Adobe Creative Suite.
7 Days can't come soon enough :'(
Jesus, meant to put tomorrow! Not next Sunday! Thanks for letting me know! It's coming early!
@@epochphilosophy 18 hours is a lot more manageable :') Keeping comment for the Algs
@@curtiswackett9652 Haha, that it is! But, always appreciated, friend!
I completely agree with the last part, although I don't see the psychological interpretation from a psychoanalytical/Freudian perspective. Of course, I'm biased against it, but it was interesting to hear of nonetheless. Personally, I believe that the game takes a beautiful scientific approach within an artistic setting by using the anatomic and physiological branches of the nervous system. It was neuroscience at its core - from a medical point of view, it was transported directly from a neuroanatomy book to a video game story - and this is so well-thought and unexpected (perhaps, even unprecedented?). Taking this into consideration, along with the skills standing up for both paranormal AND neural correspondence, there is no need for psychoanalysis in its interpretation. Psychoanalysis, in the end, falls short, kind of.
Now, the use of absurd modernism to describe the game, to me, seems accurate - there is no way such a game full of meaning and self-critique could belong to a post-modern, devoid of soul, cultural group. When you talked about love and relationships, you hit the nail on the head, sir. I'd go as far as point out how beautifully unbiased the authors were in depicting the political entities of this game. They are full of humanism and truth, something that post-modern ideology and politics is lacking (and I affirm this as a proud neoliberal). Having said that, there is no reason to believe the developers were pushing a political narrative, like many were worried about. It is a story so humane that even if you are a real fascist, you can find common ground with and affection for your moralist partner, Kim. All because human relationship transcends political and ideological views. Spot on, such a well crafted game that ultimately satisfies its purpose and gives a powerful ending.
casablanca is from 1942
The “existentialism” you refer to here is pop existentialism, no existential phenomenology. This game is extremely phenomenological
HARDCORE
Trying not to spoil the homoromantic undertones of the entire narrative at the end there, eh?
"Free will is a myth.
Religion is a joke.
We are all beholden something greater: memes."
- Monsoon (Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance)
The glitching microphone makes it hard to listen.
Good stuff, I have yet to finish this game and interestingly maybe is that what I do remember vividly is finding Kim incredibly annoying lol seemingly always making excuses for the way the world is, but you've pointed out an aspect of him that I didn't consider and now that I'm conscious of is making me excited to look for when I finally delve back in.
Love from a Vaush and UrickSaladBar fan!
You may have referred to a good explanation of what you mean by Lacan’s framework, but i still have no clue what you mean by existentialism or by authenticity.
The boys from Chapo are voice actors in DE
I remember that when the game was earlier on. I believe they have all been replaced in the final cut.
The general atmosphere of this game touches on a lot of specific emotions that I didn’t realize anyone else shared. It’s such a cohesive whole that it’s unlikely that I’m just projecting onto the creators what I experienced playing it ( but it’s possible). That feeling of being hungover on a Sunday after a heartbreak on a cold January day. Good game. With that said, the whole story seems to make certain assumptions and limits the players in such a way that gives away the mostly liberal / democratic socialist views. It’s their game, their story/message, that’s fine but it feels a bit like false advertising when they will let you become an outright racist or anti racist, etc etc. as a Marxist Leninist, I feel undercut by having media out in the world that leads people to assume that social democratic views are the only alternative to capitalism ( from what I can tell, it seems that way to many living in the u.s. ). Of course they can’t represent every single nuance of every possible ideological or political position/ dialogue tree but it just seems quite biased.
anyways, the game is touching but falls into these ideological assumptions and tropes that it’s seemingly trying to escape by being self aware but comes off as another piece of propaganda for the whole campaign/ zeitgeist promoting attitudes that embrace being anti tech or overly online, anti irony, and pro empathy ( which I assume is being inserted into the culture in order to deescalate the growing polarization and animosity between groups, especially so on social media. This all being a part of the crisis of democracy as the the economy in western countries will probably begin to shrink here in the near future).
In which a self-professed ML calls DE socdem, possibly because it does not explicitly endorse barracks communism.
@Thiên Ban Ngụy I actually picked it up this weekend and admit it was a bit more complicated than what this and other channels pitched it as. With that said, “barracks” communism is a notion you have about the Soviet Union, Vietnam, etc etc when your head is so too far up your ass with western academic theory to see that you’re effectively a liberal and, historically speaking, a state department asset.
To paraphrase you: “No one in our real world so readily talks politics like this…”
I honestly have to disagree there. Based on my real life experience, a lot of “normal” working class people actually do talks politics somewhat readily. Especially conservative working class men - whether you want to or not lol
They even wear it openly on their clothes. The company you work for might also openly post anti union/pro individualist propaganda.
Last year I had a fellow countryman I barely said hello to just suddenly and completely unprompted ask me what I thought of racism and classism in the US.
Maybe it’s the worsening material conditions that have made people more openly political or maybe I’m a weird social chimera who people feel comfortable dumping their political takes on lol
If you didnt play this game as a wacky, sober, communist ya got to play it again.
If you did, just play it again anyway...
if you dont play life as a whacky communist, you should start asap
Never seen a video where someone didn't love Kim
Where did you get that idea? I think Kim is one of the best, well thought out characters ever.
5 seconds? lol :P
Computer RPGs are designed to stroke your ego. The commercial idea behind them is that a teen who has had a miserable week at school would probably appreciate escaping to a world that literally revolves around them.
That's the point of a novel from the first person perspective.
@@dionysianapollomarx What I am saying is that these games are normally made as commercial products, not on the basis that they encourage you to empathize with characters or care about the world. Those elements are there mainly for the player to change dramatically. The player will expect to be showered with money, lovers, and worshipped like a god. No matter what they do.
@@mattd8725 i don't think it is fair to say that Disco Elysium was created with the purpose of the eventual commercial success it would go on to achieve in mind.
Disco Elysium is a passion project, a work of art, something to be admired, examined and discussed. Some things are not made solely with profit in mind, and that is one of the reasons that this game is a masterpiece. Disco Elysium could not have been created by any other developer, it is truly a unique experience.
The true value lies in the amount of impact this 'game' has had on the hearts and minds of anyone who has had the privilege of experiencing it.
@@lurox5183 I'm talking about the genre as a whole. There is perhaps a possibility for a market on top of that for parody or subversion of expectations, but without the genre conventions even that would not be possible. I am sure that everyone making games has some idea they are passionate about, as even though fish live in water, you cannot say that all fish are only "about" water.
@@mattd8725 Yeah the'yre usually just power fantasies. Which isn't in itself a bad thing, but the genre is capable of so much more, as Disco Elysium clearly demonstrated.
Why is this... so depressing. To point of being... Grim. Why life is like this?
ChatGPT:
"Hyperstition is a concept that was developed in the context of postmodern theory and speculative fiction, and it has been associated with both Hegelian and Marxist ideas in different ways. While there is no single, widely accepted interpretation of hyperstition, some theorists have suggested that it represents a synthesis of Hegelian and Marxist ideas.
In this view, hyperstition could be seen as combining the idealistic and materialistic aspects of Hegelian and Marxist thought. On the one hand, hyperstition reflects Hegel's emphasis on the role of ideas and concepts in shaping reality, by suggesting that fictional or imaginative constructs can have a real-world impact. On the other hand, hyperstition also reflects Marxist ideas about the fundamental role of economic and social conditions in shaping reality, by suggesting that these conditions can be shaped by imaginative and fictional constructs.
This synthesis of Hegelian and Marxist ideas could be seen as a way of resolving the tension between idealism and materialism in leftist thought. By emphasizing the role of ideas and concepts in shaping reality while also acknowledging the role of economic and social conditions, hyperstition could be seen as offering a more comprehensive and nuanced understanding of the relationship between ideas, reality, and social change.
It's worth noting that the idea of hyperstition as a synthesis of Hegelian and Marxist ideas is a minority view within both Hegelian and Marxist circles, and it is not widely accepted by mainstream Hegelian or Marxist scholars. The concept of hyperstition is a relatively recent development in the history of leftist thought, and its relationship to Hegelian and Marxist ideas is a matter of ongoing debate and discussion.
Hyperstition and metamodernism are both terms that have been developed in the context of postmodern theory, and they have been associated with similar ideas and themes in different ways. While there is no single, widely accepted definition of either term, some theorists have suggested that they are related or that they represent different aspects of a similar phenomenon.
Metamodernism is a term that has been used to describe a shift in cultural, artistic, and intellectual trends that emerged in the aftermath of postmodernism. Some theorists have described metamodernism as a return to modernism, but with a critical awareness of the limitations and failures of modernist ideas and aesthetics. Other theorists have described metamodernism as a distinct cultural trend that transcends the dualistic oppositions of modernism and postmodernism.
Hyperstition, as described earlier, refers to the phenomenon in which fictional or imaginative constructs can have a real-world impact, shaping the course of events and influencing reality in unexpected ways. In this sense, hyperstition could be seen as a manifestation of the ideas and themes associated with metamodernism, which emphasizes the fluid and dynamic relationships between art, culture, and reality.
The relationship between hyperstition and metamodernism is a matter of ongoing debate and discussion, and there is no single, widely accepted interpretation of this relationship. Some theorists have suggested that hyperstition represents a specific aspect of the broader metamodern phenomenon, while others have suggested that hyperstition and metamodernism are related but distinct concepts. Regardless of the specific relationship between the two terms, both hyperstition and metamodernism reflect broader trends in postmodern thought that challenge traditional dualistic oppositions and emphasize the fluid and dynamic relationships between ideas, art, culture, and reality."
no
the gamer does not control Harry
the game developers control the gamers' decisions 15:23
this is the part of 'philosophy' i always struggle with: pretense. Idea upon idea la la la. But factually: no gamer controls a character. The choices are limited by the technology available to the game developers. SO - still just a bi/tri/quad/nary decision tree that the gamer has to navigate. Fascinating game, i bought it but haven't played. not my style of play but the art is so unique i wanted to support the team. Thanks for the analysis. Philosophy is truly a pathology. Please discuss that. *i chose the wrong word: Philosophy is pathological. It is my opinion that those people who tirelessly weave loaded undefined words together in an attempt to define some new meta are simply pathologically definable as .. ? a kook? ADHD? On the spectrum? it is clearly a human tendency and over millenia these traits continues despite selective breeding. But for real man: philosophy is crazy people talk. Referencing former crazy people from 200 years ago doesn't make the contemporary crazy person sound less crazy.
It's insane this method of academic pursuit is not more critically examined.
Sissy phis