How to fit Window boards with and without power tools
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2023
- How to fit window boards the old way and the new way!! I cut a fix the window board only using hand tools other than the drill that I screwed the plasterboard in with!!
I also demonstrate the use of a small palm router to complete the job
I have always enjoyed fitting window boards, its a first fixing carpentry job that I really enjoy
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It’s good to see you use hand tools . I’m 67 and I even did stairs by hand , to be honest if I used the tools you use now I would not have any fingers left as we were always pissed in the afternoon, great days , all fingers still there ,
Just a little tip from an old chippy,make sure the window board slants away from the window ‘ that stops water rotting timber if there is condensation . But only an eighth of an inch 👍🍺
Sandpaper is always with me to take arris’s off everything, including light rub over architraves face to make joint invisible. Painters love me and never see anyone else take that care. Been doing this for 40 years so not gonna change. Once the old school joiners have gone I fear for the trade, in fact that goes for every trade
It's the finishing detail that seperates top notch tradesmen from the rest. I try my best not to give near enough, even if the customer says it's good enough. Job satisfaction is everything in my book.
Agreed!!
Yes personally not rounding off the ends is shoddy work imo
In 1952 my Liverpudlian dad built a very simple home just outside Toronto. He had no power tools. It was still standing in 2005. Absolutely nothing fancy. Your accent is not quite my dads, and of course u r much younger. It’s a real pleasure to c the amazing advances in carpentry/joinery. I think your MDF is better quality than our “particle board” which I have always viewed as junk. Anything here made out of particle board, especially countertops is very disappointing.
This guy isnt from Liverpool 🤣🤣
@@laceyukboy I know that he is not from Liverpool. I said his accent wasn’t like my dads. Thank u for your kind observation!!
I always undercoat face and seal bare edges first on mdf, plasterers can leave them in a real mess sometimes. They can blow very easily.
Nice Robin, the only thing I do differently is I round the corners over first and then cut the notch out. Find it’s easier as you’ve got more stock to rest the plane on than just the little nib 👍
Same
same.
Same
This was the comment I came here for.
Me too
It always nice to get the window boards on I do 40mm out and 50mm around the reveal. Good video after watching that I definitely need to sharpen my plane
The precision with which you cut boards with a handsaw, even getting the kerf on the side of the cut line is impressive.
Interesting to see that MDF window reveals are becoming more common in the UK. In NZ the became fairly popular in the nineties. After the 'leaky home syndrome' exposed in the early noughties, no one puts MDF anywhere near windows. It has lost a lot of popularity even for skirtings and architraves. It would take a lot to persuade me to use it again.
Perfect time on a wet Sunday evening, just as I was wondering what to watch......😁
Thank you Connor!!! Tell me if you like the video!! I value my loyal viewers opinions!!
Offering the board to the window and marking it is something I will be doing from now on thank you. A little thing I do different is I have an inch offcut of the bullnose detail and place it on the back of the lug then transfer the lines through to plain off. Not sure it’s any quicker than your method. 😃.
Like the quick one-job videos, keep 'em coming, Rob.
Usually the front over hang is determined by the wall thickness and the placing of the window within it.
Your videos gave me the confidence to do my garage conversion myself. I did everything apart from brickwork, electrics and plastering. Thank you!
Thats great Jon!!
It's so nice to know this can be easily done with hand tools. It's intimidating for a beginner to face the prospect of renting or buying all the power tools I see most woodwork channels using. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
On period properties you often put a Scotia moulding under the board. This is a nice touch. This is always seen under box sash windows (double hung windows in Australia).
Nice Robin. What I like to do is, using a very short level, make sure that any water or condensation will flow towards the inside, rather than sit between the sill & the window & rot. Just needs 1 degree off level... 👍🙂
Thats a nice idea especially if you know that condensation is a problem in a build, it is the first time I have ever heard this suggested mind you? all the buildings that I build are designed not to have any condensation via proper insulation and ventilation
@@ukconstruction Hey Robin. What camp would you say you were in, as regards a house envelope being 'airtight' & not able to 'breathe', & any ingress of water being 'trapped', or the envelope being breathable',with vents etc & any water ingress being able to be self-dried, but obviously less heat efficient...? 🤔
@@videostarish Airtight as much as possible and mechanical ventilation and heat recovery system in place as opposed to typical extractor fans in wet areas and trickle vets etc on windows
I do the same thing if I think water will be a problem, for instance in a kitchen on the sink run.
A very short level is called a boat level 🍺
Thanks for demonstrating both methods.
I gotta keep complimenting that behind the scene guys that get those shots .... you also are incredible on camera too Robin. Sometimes i miss being in the ad biz ... nothing is this easy looking. You have a great team of support and it shows. Cheers
Wow, thank you!
Nowadays, I'd use my Bosch 12V mini circular saw. Only cuts 1"=2.54mm. Lovely clean cut every time. Everyone who tries it loves it for anything down to 3mm hardboard. Even works well with it's teeny little dust extraction attachment and its guide fence
I've just installed a splayed window reveal with softwood board. Not a carpenter, never done it before. Thankfully, dewalt track saw with angle cuts to the rescue. I needed the extra depth (sash window, old house - new refurb) so I butted the pine wood window sill tongue against the window and added a new tongue under it - a plywood strip glued and clamped against the existing tongue, sticking out just enough. It's not hugely solid but I bedded that tongue into the window groove with silicone and it all sits nicely. Actually it kind of stuck out too far so there's a tiny gap which I have cut some very small beading to cover. I plan to add beading on the side reveals (MDF) as well, so it will hopefully look quite nice. It's a north facing window into a lightwell so no direct sunlight.
Sanded the sides of the bullnose / overhang of course. I like the way Robin cut the form with a plane, I just went at it with 80 then 120 sandpaper and hoped for the best.
I did all this before plasterboard goes up. Reason for doing before plasterboarding was that I wanted panelled reveals at an angle (MDF not plasterboard) and needed to prep the edges of those panels so they sit flush for plasterboard (with stop bead) then architrave to go over them. Is it normal to fit a window sill before plasterboarding? I see everyone seems to do it. One other benefit was that I could screw from below through 2x4 stud. I put about 6 screws and shims along the length. Might add a few blobs of foam under there before sealing against studs with silver foil tape for air tightness. Hope I haven't screwed it up? I have no idea what I'm doing, really
Masterfully done as always Robin.
These little details are what makes a good job a fantastic job. Nice one
Simple and nice finishing touch.
Really nice tutorial. Nice to see hand tools being used too. I'm assuming you'd run a wider width overhang and a deeper board if architrave was being fitted around the window. I still can't trust MDF... 35+ years doing woodwork and it still screams shite to me!
I love your videos. Its like an extended apprenticeship as I did not have a formal apprenticeship just 2 years in college for my diploma. Please keep them coming Robin.
Nice, very pleasant to see and hear why you do it this way
Excellent. I love the use of a hand saw. I have never been that good. I think I need a better fine saw.
Great, easy to follow video
Robin your a caring thoughtful Craftsman ...
a avid watcher of your channel .
Great camera angles ...more of those Camera Angles "views from " ...💪📷
Wow, thank you
Great video Robin !!! thanks
lovely job
Great. Just found your videos. Love how you teach
Excellent, made to look very easy 🙂
My old carpentry lecturer at Hackney Tech, Mr Coaster, would go ballistic.....'' It's not f*ckin sandpaper, it's glass paper, Sandpaper is for f*ckin budgie's cages'' 😀
Put them on before it’s plaster boarded then you can fit straps down the walls for them, holds them better than most ways I’ve seen.
You’re the man Rob👍
When I've done the exposed ends of window sills I've used a strip from the MDF board with the rounded edge on it. And rather than cut at 90 degrees, I've done it at 45 and effectively mitred in the edge. Bit of glue and job done. Not as sturdy as just making the rounded edge by sanding/routing but good enough for most situations.
@@stevehallam6495 Amount of work is no different. Does add an extra joint which is a bit more fragile but to be honest window sills don't get a lot of abuse.
@@stevehallam6495 which is OK as I only do it for the properties I own.
Nice video as usual, would love to see you do it on en uneven out of straight wall as well because you would probably do that great with nice tips!
prefection work..
That's a very nice router
You got this out quickly mate! 💪
Well that's the beauty of a few hours off!!
Masterful!
I was taught to put a slight fall away from the window to prevent condensation pooling next to the window
Teach all my app this
Nice job mate just subscribed 👍🏴🇬🇧
Done window boards the same way for years
is that a Garmin watch ? Robin ...
Great craftsman by the way.
a real pleasure to watch .
Hi Steven, thanks for your kind message mate, this is a Samsung watch that links with my phone etc. Have a good weekend mate
With a trimmer it's not a major issue to put the correct finish on it with ease. Also it's lovely to work with sq corners. I find the way to do it on most modern builds is put a sq datum then measure from that.
good work. In a perfect world pâint the edge to protect from damp water. As this is the problem with MDF Water will damage it.
Thank you - regards Mike
Thanks for watching and supporting my channel!!
Good video, thank you.
Not to teach you to suck eggs etc, but I was always taught to stick my index finger forward, alongside the saw handle, pointing along the saw direction. No idea how it works to make it a smoother, more accurate cut, but it does.
Nice one Robin - now do one on removing a window board without damaging it.😉
Excellent video thank you. Lots of people have mould growth near the bottom corners of the window reavel. Wouldn't just screwing the plasterboard in the reavel without a insulation or thermal break cause issues in the long term? . Your advice would be greatly valued please.
I love watching u do what u love. Was that at your garden/pool/kickback room?
I find now if fitting MDF I fit once the plastering is done just before decorating. I make sure the reveals Are square when we plaster board them and find the plaster finish around corners are a lot neater and less chance of them getting damaged or brews being spilt on them !!!
Not something I do a lot of but when cutting the reveals is there a recommended and specific overhang either side of your opening
No set size, but generally I add 15mm for the apron plus 25 to 30mm
Wonderful video, and very helpful, you should reach at college if you’re not doing so already. Leaving skills of the past for the future.
Robin, your sanding technique needs to match your text book perfect hand sawing. To produce a curved surface you need to drop your wrist rather than your finger tips. You are sanding by allowing your point of contact to move away from you. Your finger tips fall away from you going over and down. Instead, start the sanding at your furthest point, gradually dropping your wrist and your finger tips rising. The point of contact then moves towards you which due to the articulation of the shoulder, elbow and wrist joists has a tendency to produce a better curve. Your way, the radius of the curve tends to increase as the contact point goes away down, and around. It also produces a ‘scrubbing action’ rather than a smoother ‘stroking’ action. Difficult to explain in words, but have a look at a metal worker filing a curve on a piece of steel. It is one of the very first techniques metal workers are taught. Always love your vids, keep them coming.
Well its understandable, as a carpenter I only use blades and sharp edges to achieve a super finish, I mentioned in the video that I hardly ever use sand paper!!.
@@ukconstruction I can see you rarely use sandpaper, however you featured it in your vid, and many viewers will too, hence my comment.
Thanks for that tip Robin, is there any chance you might show us how you made your work horses, any ones I built were much bulkier, your ones look exactly what I would like. Thanks again Robin.
You are in luck. RC did a really nice video about single bevel trestles on Skill Builder: czcams.com/video/7sz0KL8G150/video.html
Check out the video on @skillbuilder where I made these very ones
@@ukconstruction Thanks Robin.
If you were to use some nice hardwood that you were going to finish with oil, would you still install them at this stage? If so, how would you protect them from the plaster and paint?
On site 20 years ago, it was all done before the dot and dab as a first fix item? It kept the plasters true.
Great video. What make is your planar?
Thanks Robin i'm off to buy a small plane lots of windows to do, just one question why do you smooth off the saw cuts when you are going to cut the end off.
Just followed this and fitted my first window board in around 40 mins (checking twice and cutting once!)
Thank you
Well done Simon!!
Smashing
Hi, good video thanks! What planer is that you're using?
Whats the best way to fit 2m x 300mm window boards. I see some using angle brackets fixed to the sill underside and the face wall but not sure i like this idea, if they ever need changed its very destructive
Love you man, this is the first video I've watched of yours where I feel you missed a trick. I know its not your doing but if the window board was just a little higher on the window it would of lost the rubbish detail of the windows outside sill. Much cleaner if that's under the top face of the window board. If a piece of plasterboard was put on before the sill it would of raised it up by 12.5mm and still been fine to plaster/dry line. Bit of a bug bare for me as those window sill lips always trap dirt and look messy, especially white ones.
Window boards are lot easier to put in when the plaster board isn’t on the reveals.
The only 2 observations I’d make are what’s the point of planing off your saw cuts when you finishing with glass paper? 2nd would be that allowing your shoulder overhang to be the same as the front edge o/h then adding the plasterboard on top increases the shoulder length!
Well Mark, when I filmed this video I did film that whole part about allowing the thickness of the plasterboard if you wanted to have exactly the same return ad overhang... but when I edited the video it was going to be confusing and would have probably caused many questions!! So I also used a piece of footage that says that there is no hard and fast rule about the length of your returns and that it is personal preference, well spotted mate and top of the class for you!!
On a refurbish, how do you go about removing the old cracked and rotten wooden window board?
What TPI saw are you using?
We always rebate the back of the window board so it sits on the lip of the sill section of the window yours are only slightly below flush of the sill doesn’t look great to be honest as it doesn’t give the same margin around the window.
I would suggest it's easier to shape the returns and sand rather than use a router.
Nice job as always,Robin.
Terrific ! What happens if you want a thermal break under the board ?
I’ve been reading a lot this weekend and doing some calcs as I’m going to be doing window reveals for our timber frame dormer, with external plastic cladding soon. From what I read the reveal has to have a u value of .7, and from my calcs if you’ve got a 4x 2 running under the window/ trimming the sides - you can’t hit .7 unless you have 20mm of celotex under plaster / the window board. For the sides / header a piece of bonded celotex / plasterboard seems good - with corner beads so plaster goes over everything - so presumably that means 20mm of insulation under the wooden board , again with a corner bead so one can skim up to the underside of the mdf …?
I guess for some reason in your wall make up (external insualtion? Albeit I can see insulation bonded to the plaster board presumably to stop cold bridging …) Eg copy and paste here - “Part L1b of the Building Regulations recommends that the minimum performance of any insulated element should have a U value no worse than 0.7 w/m2K. This U value should be used as the minimum standard for a reveal.”
So unless the insulation is external - that means there has to be insulation here or the timber becomes a cold bridge.
How do you deal with this situation robin …? Having layers of insulation makes it harder to ensure the window board doesn’t “squidgy” if sat on into the insulation …
Overthinking it fella.
You have to look at the building regulations as a guide, it is not always possible to cover every square cm with rules in my case we have a 140mm stud mass filled with 120mm PIR then we have the Insulated plasterboard with the best quality PIR insulation on its reverse so you can trade off some parts for others and this is acceptable
@@ukconstruction as always insightful and helpful - thank you for your detailed response. I have learnt so much from your videos and am very grateful for your public spirited educational work through video and attention to comments. All the best.
I feel like I should be paying for these tutorials
you are, either by the ads you watch or your YT subscription. If your still feeling guilty most channels have a patreon option😆
However there is no questioning the value of this and similar videos, Spencer Lewis's "Inside Carpentry" channel a prime example. I've often thought back to my 1st career as a photographer and the $1000's of dollars training "tapes" (yes I am that old!) would cost to cover a fraction of what is now available for the cost of a YT sub.
Very nice but I still have doubts about MDF for window sill
If the rest of the building is built well and there is no condensation or leaking windows then it is absolutely fine
My mate works for the council
Can I add the window boards after plastering? New build, block walls. Wondering do I add before sand and cement plaster and final skim plaster, after sand and cement plaster but before skim plastrr or after all plastering and make tight window board fit with some calk if required. Many thanks in advance for the advice.
Traditionally it is a first fix item so now straight to the block work, just need to allow the right overhang based on the overall plaster thickness or dot and dab etc, it's a better finish like that just be sure to seal the newly fitted window boards all round with a decent oil primer, you can do them after but then you are relying on the plasterer to get all his work spot on or you will be making good everywhere!!
@@ukconstruction Thank you!
Best fitted after the plasterers been 😄
With and without series ?
Hi Robin, great videos : ) What brand was that orange-handled saw you were using to cut the window sill/board in this vid please?
It's an Irwin Jack
Can you show how to make window boards for a bay window?
We usually let the drywaller and painter first.
All my window boards were as you say soft wood or hardwood. All cut out by hand and planed with a block plane to shape. I left in 1998. Never saw an MDF one used. I know you can get that really expensive outdoor MDF now. But I bet those aren't made of that. So how do you go using just "moisture resistant" MDF. That in reality is about as moisture resistant as a sponge. In an area prone to condensation and moisture. Do you have blown window boards all over the UK now. We always used to put tie downs on the front edge of the board that got plastered in to stop lifting. The Aussies are too lazy to muck around like that. If you want reveals you tell the window mob what size you want. All four the same. And they come from the factory on. Haven't done a window board in 25 years.
How are you getting on with the Milwaukee router? I’ve only used mine a few times so far but it’s very powerful for its size and a nice weigh too. Great video Robin.
I like the milwaukee router, it's compact if you need it to be and also really stable with the large base fitted, I even don't mind the weight of it with a 5ah battery fitted!!
I'm fitting to finish plaster so as you can imagine lot of scribes and also on bay windows
Didn't expect the window boards to go in before the plasterboard reveals. I suppose it doesn't really make any difference, except that your boarding trades would probably expect to come in in one hit rather than come back after carpentry?
What’s the best size rounded over bit for windowboard guys?
Hmmm no German lager...........great video
Is adhesive good enough to hold window board (in my case red deal) or should one also screw down to block wall?
If you have good surfaces that are dust free and solid then an adhesive would be fine, I would try a polymer type adhesive for multi surfaces
@@ukconstruction many thanks for taking the time to respond.
How I do it apart from I buzz the reveals out with a circ
Hi robin, where did you get your ali windows from please?
Hi Mate these are Smart systems, I had them manufactured and fitted them all myself, most local window firms have access to manufacturers of these, where are you?
@@ukconstruction I’m in Woking Surrey
Was there a need to plane the ends after sawing? None of that face was left after the rounding!
you will have a flat spot between the round over that the bearing of the router will run, and it will show if there is a sawn edge, it is something we where taught when we where apprentices many moons ago
Can't help thinking planing the ends was a use of valuable time if you then cut them off !
Why are the reveals there for please? The pieces that hang over on the front each side. I dont understand why they are not cut straight then round off the corners still. Are they purely decorative? I did all the UVPC outside sills flush (no reveals each side) Just because I prefer the look.
Don't worry about Mdf dust?
In college' they used a penny to get the circle shape
I'm surprised you didn't cut backwards with the handsaw to show you're a pro
Interesting, ive always assmembled as one piece and slipped the whole thing in. Your showinf the sides on top, ive always cut back and screwed the sides onto the top and bottom jamb. Sloping for condensation doesnt make sense unless your dealing with poor window efficiency in that case they should have glass upgraded or inserts on the inside etc ro deal with that
Much quicker with a router (if you have one!) to do the reveals and more consistent.
Hi John did you watch the whole video??