EMPIRE vs STORMCLOAKS - Who is the Better Ruler? - Elder Scrolls Lore
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2019
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In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we have a look at who would be the better ruler of Skyrim.
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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series, following The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and was released worldwide for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on November 11, 2011.
The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim. Over the course of the game, the player completes quests and develops the character by improving skills. The game continues the open world tradition of its predecessors by allowing the player to travel anywhere in the game world at any time, and to ignore or postpone the main storyline indefinitely.
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Why did you join the stormcloaks?
*flashback
“He’s not in the list”
“It doesn’t matter he goes to the block”
My strongest logic as well
Ye same i dont care if its only a few ppl of the empire but im too petty to forgive that and i rather side with stormcloaks who respect strength and there own freedom than with the Empire who is betraying his own ppl and Talos and bending there knee instead of fighting like Hammerfell who are the only ones who pushed the Aldmeri Dominion succesfully back.
@PIX3L PLAYER start the game again and look specifically at Tulius (you'll be in the carriage still). He is talking to a Thalmor. The Thalmor were planning to interrupt the execution and set Ulfric free, hence the rush to finish the execution. The Empire made a mistake tho, Ulfric should be the first to die(but that would end several questlines so he didnt), but he should've been
Edit: btw it is stated in game the Thalmor were planning to hijack the execution
@@Soltrex-Y They didn't push them back, that is why it is called a stalemate. The Dominion decided to leave.
@@Suchmymimus i mean ye they didnt defeat them straight but because hammerfell united the first time in over 1000 years and because they fought in guerrilla tactics. And of course because the aldmeri dominion lost so much against the empire in the battle of the red ring so basically they set it in motion that the elves thought it was toi dangerous to stay there so isnt that the same as driving them out?
Stormcloaks, Imperials, dragons. Ain't no matter to me what I kill. Let them come.
Sithis awaits
Help someone stole my sweet roll🐝
Anyone a little concerned that this guy just wants to kill something?
Wise words
@@dovahduke4566 but what about that arrow in your knee?
Best ending:
*Thalmor accidentally start 2nd Great War
Ulfric: Well, never thought i'd die fighting side by side with an Imperial.
Tulius: What about side by side with a friend?
... while this is happening, Heimskr and Lurbuk are on their way to cast a ring into the fires of Vvardenfell... but they are pursued by Narfi
I read this in their voices and the intonation on "hwhot about side by side with a friend?" Was something that Tullius *would* say
Every Human dies
Unfortunately someone who sells your inalienable rights out to the enemy can never be a “friend”
Ulfric: Well, never thought i'd die fighting side by side with an Imperial.
Tulius: What about side by side with a friend?
Ulfric: aye, I could do that *walks over to the Dragonborn*
When i sided with the Stormcloaks, I remember hearing from somewhere that at some point, You'll have to attack whiterun. And because of that, I stopped the quest temporarily to go get another house. I did this because i had adopted an orphan and she lived in the house in whiterun, I didn't want her to get caught in the crossfire, so I took her to another house where she'd be safer.
Funny thing is, I knew she would be fine even if i didn't do that. But it didn't feel right to me.
I did the same shit lol
That's when you know your way too into this game, and I am immensely happy that someone else got to that stage 😂
Fuck the other kids there tho right? Lmao still awesome
I left my adopted kids in an empty house near falkreath and never went back f them kids
I tried doing this while taking over solitude but my children kept getting glitched and going back to Riften honeyside any time I tried to send them anywhere other than solitude so instead I made them watch the bloodshed.
Here’s the correct answer: The Imperials and Stormcloaks should join forces and kick Thalmor ass.
Stormcloaks are up for that... unfortunately, the Imperials aren't allowed to, as it would defy their orders to aid and support all Thalmor actions within the Empire... perhaps if the Emperor changed his standing order, until then, the continuing trend of Legion soldiers rebelling is the only option for an alliance of the two against the Thalmor
They already tried that. It didn't turn out that well.
@@Suchmymimus What about the Great War? The Imperial forces, including mass forces from Skyrim, crushed the Aldmeri forces in Cyrodiil, and everything the Dominion could scrape up in the last 6 months of the War... if the Emperor hadn't intervened on behalf of the Dominion, the Thalmor would have been finished.
... the only thing keeping the Thalmor strong is imperial policy protecting and empowering them
@@thoruszwolf4153 Only by signing the peace treaty known as the White-Gold Concordat was the Empire able to survive the onslaught of the high elven Aldmeri Dominion, and thus end the Great War.
This unbiased loading screen quote states otherwise.
@@Suchmymimus Loading screens do contain false information from time to time. this narrative ignores the concise account of the Great War written by the Commander of the Tenth Legion, Justianus Quintus... would you contend that the whole story about the Battle of the Red Ring never happened, nor did the Emperors escape from the Imperial city, and that the Aldmeri capture of the Imperial city was the End of the War?
Man, I wanna be in the war but. That arrow in my knee... Hurts like hell.
Did you just?
Same here
@Muffins the Cat i got my eyes on you.
I thought you'd be looking for my stolen sweet roll...
Whiterun Guard No lollygaggin
You know, I've always wondered how things would've turned out if the Imperials just straight up made a "under the table" deal with the Stormcloaks to sort of fake a war or something to cover them building their forces enough to challenge The Summerset Isles itself. Just food for a thought.
The nords are too barbaric to understand what a table is
Exactly why they should take the fight to them while the Imperials handle the more "intricate" assignments
@@seethenero2555 exactly
I need fan fiction of this now
As great as this sounds for both sides, because the Thalmor have an embassy in Skyrim and headquarters in Solitude, this under-the-table deal and a fake war would not go unnoticed by the elves. The Thalmor, for all their prejudice and arrogance, are smart and cunning enough to see right through the ploy. There would be no proper cover-up for the rebuilding of their forces. The most the Empire could do is do what they do best, establish at least a temporary peace and rebuild overtime.
Empire: yo my dudes, we have to outlaw Talos to appease these stupid elves. But we're only doing it so we can rebuild our forces under their noses. So you can still worship Talos but do it on the down low for now, k?
ULFRIC: F*CK YOU I LOVE TALOS!
Meanwhile, I just kill every Thalmor Patrol I come across and remain neutral.
That way, the Empire can claim they're honoring the White Gold Concordat and Stormcloaks get their prisoners back. Everybody wins. I mean, except the Thalmor, but they're just salty that a man became a god before an elf did, so fuck em.
Yup
I kill every thalmor patrol even when sided with the empire, just need to come up with excuses.
"I swear, they tripped and fell on my sword!"
"Sometimes bear attacks look like arrows!"
"Fire magic? Whaaaaaaat I definitely didn't start with that spell!"
"They clearly committed suicide... with a warhammer..."
"I know it LOOKS like I thu'umed them off a mountain but um... thane of Whiterun?"
Well technically the tribunal were gods before talos was but the dark elves hate the high elves just such as they hate everyone else who isnt dunmer
@@pelinalwhitestrake1677 the tribunal were never full gods, they were only referred to as such, they were more like 'fake gods'
@@raziberry1595 I guess but I remember reading up somewhere that vivec was the one who taught tiber septim how to achieve chim. Even tho chim isnt technically godhood, it is a type of understanding that even lorkhan himself couldn't grasp. Chim also allows you godly powers even without the heart of lorkhan
If I remember correctly, General Tullius tells you that the Empire is planning an uprising against the Dominion but they cannot do it while the Civil War is going on.
(If canon) with the dragonborn siding with the Empire the aldmeri dominion is done. The dragonborn can just call a bunch of dragons with storm call and it's over
@@alyjahandujar1402
Not really, dragons are not as scary as you think. Dragons have always been hunted as if they were anything. And the Thalmor are full of magicians, they can kill the dragons without problems. I remind you that the first dragon you kill in Skyrim falls even when you still don't use thu'um. Basically, a few guards and a Dunmer were enough to kill a dragon.
Gabriel Pineda true but if they are used along with the force of the Empire and the Dragonborn I feel like they could easily beat the Dominion. The Dragonborn also has the Thuum and has powerful allies like Durnehviir. A dragon may be worth a couple men, but the Dragonborn is worth 100 dragons.
Gabriel Pineda I thought only the Dragonborn has the ability to fully kill dragons with being able to absorb dragon souls
@@imbored7824
Again, the dragons are not as powerful as they think, and neither is the Dragonborn. Thu'um is nothing more than a style of spiritual magic based on the language of dragons. Thalmor handle magic, which has no limits. And the magic is quite OP, only that in games it is reduced to balance game styles. Again, a few nords and a dunmer managed to kill a dragon at the start of the game. That already makes it clear that dragons are not so powerful.
Given his stance, I was so sure that Balgruuf would side with whomever I did.
When I chose the Stormcloaks, when I invaded Whiterun, when the first person to make me Thane called me out, that stung.
The imperials almost executed me, but it still stung.
Honestly, I had a kinda different reaction. I also expected Balgruuf to side with the Stormcloaks because he seemed like a proud Nord and all that.... but it turns out he was just dragging his heels and opting to turn against the first one who lost patience with him. When he decided to turn against Ulfric, I was disappointed in him. Genuinely disappointed. I certainly didn't feel bad about my choice. He should have felt bad about his.
I also expected him to side with whoever I chose. At the time in the quest when you’re delivering the item to him the faction you chose is permanent. But I felt differently about it when I chose stormcloaks. It felt like he betrayed me because he knew I was the Dragonborn and decided to join my opposition. Technically speaking though there should be no reason that jarl Balgruuf wouldn’t consider joining the stormcloaks since he is neutral and secretly warships talos, Ulfric even considers him a true nord and believes that he will join the rebellion at first. In my eyes I think his hatred for ulfric is what ultimately convinced him to join the legion but that’s kind of dumb considering most of the stormcloak jarl’s don’t even like ulfric and consider him to be the lesser of two evils.
I felt the same. I truly considered Jarl Balgruuf a friend, and yet he finally makes his decision once I give him mine, a decision that turns him against me and arguably against what he believes in. It felt like a slap in the face, really.
How can you feel any sort of friendly feelings towards a man that you only spend a few minutes talking with?
Or am I the only one that is like "Let's get this over with"?
@@SotiCoto Balgruuf’s loyalty lies with his people. He knows his people (or Skyrim as a whole, for that matter) won’t benefit from a civil war, so he refuses to join the side that is openly calling to start one. Said side then delivers an outright ultimatum to him to either join them or die.
And you’re disappointed in him when he accepts help to defend his city from invasion?
The man has every right to be disappointed in *you*, his sworn thane. You betrayed your title and helped enemies of whiterun besiege the city, supported them showering his people in a flaming barrage, and slaughtering the defenders that had previously fought alongside you against a dragon.
I mean, I feel like when it comes down to it whatever side you pick will be a deadly global superpower just because they’ve got the Dragonborn. The Dragonborn is basically like a nuclear weapon in a world where crossbows are revolutionary.
True, the Thalmor ain't doing shit against a literal demigod
well, The Dragonborn is Mortal. Presuming that the canon Dragonborn is a Nord warrior, He's only going to be alive for about 100 years. So, whoever wins the Dragonborn gets 80 years of military dominance, what happens after that though? And what about all the other aspects of a nation that need to be attended to?
@@datdabdoe1417I’d almost bet that the dominion will start another war during the LDB’s lifetime. I’m sure the empire or Stormcloaks wouldn’t allow the rare opportunity of a powerful being to just slip them by. The LDB would certainly lower the Aldmeri dominions power if nothing else. Clavicus Vile does state that the Dragonborn matches his power while he’s without Barbas. And Clavicus is a deadric prince (a relatively weak one at that but still a deadric prince).
@@datdabdoe1417 That's why Superman never influences human conflicts. As soon as he dies the entire world will be flung into turmoil
What I find funny is when I play I barely use shouts so my character would be a super power even if he weren’t the dragon born
I didn't play through an entire Oblivion Campaign just to see the empire fall.
Ocato was assassinated just a few years after the events of Oblivion, the Empire fell into an interregnum, and a Colovian Warlord seized the Throne and declared himself Emperor.... like it or not, the Empire you fought for in Oblivion fell nearly 2 centuries before the Events of Skyrim
Skyrim never fell to the Elves you coward. The Empire betrayed us!
@@Legatus Just a realist that can see the good and bad in situations, and opts for the lesser of evils... if in your book that is the definition of scum, so be it, but I will fight for your right to have that opinion, however wrong it is, for freedom is a right I believe we all have the right to have, and is worth fighting for.
The empire has not betrayed the people of Skyrim !
The Stormcloak rebellion only strengthens the power of the Thalmor by dividing humanity and allowing them to regain their strength. The Stormcloaks therefore are FOOLS!🤦♂️
Why tf am I more invested in the politics of a video game than real life?
@Terra white You're joking right? The Thalmor want to undue reality and kill everyone. They are called "Nazi Elves" for a reason.
Because it's easier for you to inform yourself on video game lore than real life lore
@Terra White the Thalmor literally kill people for worshipping a God who's shown to be real and one of the most important in nordic beliefs and they keep the civil war going because it helps them. Real life politics doesn't involve people storming cities and beheading people who rebel against them and the innocents in the way. Real politics doesn't involve a man using DRAGON MAGIC to kill the ruler so he can be the ruler. You really don't understand anything about skyrim's politics, let alone real politics
bat32391 man the thalmor really made people fucking hate high elves... not all high elves are like the Thalmor tho they are like only one bad branch of the Aldmeri Dominion
There's a lot less talking and therefore, a lot less bullshit.
Good ending: Tulius tells Ulfric that the Empire is planning an uprising against the Dominion when they have their ceasefire talks in the main story, and everyone finally starts seeing eye to eye
But instead at the talks everyone is like "Well he started it" and now no one is happy
Wouldn't end how you think, Ulfric literally works for the Thalmor in exchange for them not challenging his position. They could easily turn his palace into a smoking crater with a handful of their strongest mages, but they don't because he keeps the Empire splintered enough for the Thalmor to stand a chance at destroying it and the world so they can reshape it in their image.
@@NostalgicOccultist He doesn't work for the Thalmor. He hates the Thalmor and actively fights to remove their influence from Skyrim. The entire civil war isn't about who owns Skyrim, Ulfric was fine with the empire before The Great War. He fights to remove Thalmor control over his lands so that the fighting he did in the great war and the people who died wouldn't be for nothing. The Thalmor leave him alive, however, because the fighting in Skyrim reduces the Empire's ability to muster up for the inevitable second great war. It's somewhat of a lose-lose situation to me.
@@childishgrimm9610 Ulfric is noted by the Embassy dossier to have been completely broken by Thalmor interrogators, their orders are the reason he caused a ruckus in Markarth. He is literally a Thalmor sleeper agent keeping the Empire divided so they can't regain the strength to continue the war.
it stuck me more as the Empire telling Ulfric to chill. To which, Ulfric rips his shirt off and shouts "I WILL NOT 'CALM DOWN.' WE'RE GONNA CRANK IT UP!!"
Wouldnt work working together would mean coming together under 1 banner which neither would agree to do for obvious reasons
It always seemed like an oversight that you can't show Tullius and Ulfric the Thalmor Dossier that clearly states they want neither side to win.
There should've been an option at the peace conference where the Stormcloaks fight alongside the Imperials to kick the high elves out of Skyrim. In return, Skyrim can be an autonomous client state within the Empire.
A united humanity can wipe those damn elves off the face of nirn.
They can't beat the thalmor
@@etendudeaufraiche146 united, yes, they can
@@etendudeaufraiche146 they got a dragonborn on their side who can call dragons into battle, summon an ancient frost giant, and makes weapons better than those made by the gods, a fully realized dragonborn could wipe the aldmeri dominion
@@SwanTeeth in lore the thu’um is actually stronger than it is in game, as well as karstaag. Also durnehviir is WAYYYYYY stronger than he’s portrayed in the game, same with odaahviing (im probably spelling these wrong). Not just that but im sure parthuunax the literal right hand of Alduin wouldnt mind helping. Not just that but the dragonborn in lore is the archmage so he can summon daedra, resurrect an army of dead soldiers and use magic, maybe in es6 we’ll be able to fight the thalmor
The sad thing is that Tullius wouldn't be surprised. He has the perspective to see beyond Skyrim's borders and sees the coming conflict between the Aldmeri and the Empire. Ulfric and most Stormcloaks seem to have deluded themselves into believing that the Empire WANTS to stay under Thalmor control. That is the farthest thing from the truth.
I love the fact that this game has almost 10 years and we still discuss the civil war.I hope Elder Scrolls VI has something like that.
People say the story in Skyrim is flat/dull/boring but I find it anything but, if you take the time to get into it.
for some reason my gut tells me VI is going to be disapointing, kinda like Fallout 76, althought we dont know anything about it rn
@@burritodog3634 Let's hope they want to defy the critics by making something awesome. They've just released something called Starscape (or something similarly named) haven't they? Which is a brand new title for them so they will be wanting to get that one absolutely right.
& ES6 should be next in the pipeline....
@@tupacshinji605 Oh, don't get my hopes up. I just want it by 2024 or 25. I'm ready for that new Argonian a e s t h e t i c
.......I like bread
Me: FOR THE EMPIRE!FOR THE LEGION!
Also me assassinating the emperor: Nothing personnel kid...
....makes one wonder what empire you support... one with Pointy eared leaders perhaps o.0?
Thorus Zwolf I support the empire that would allow me to unleash my wrath upon the dominion even if it means I must make a martyr of my emperor
Get rid of the weak emperor, and hope a better one takes his place.
Mike Hawk it’s just good business
Pixelated Michael Jackson Exatly what I did after killing the Emperor and Motierre
You see those warriors from Hammerfell? They have curved swords. Curved. Swords.
Why don't they have hammers? such a waste.
@@damieng6368 cuz the hammers fell
@@mohawk4759LMAO take my like ye basterd
wouldn't be a good game without at least one d**k joke
@@mohawk4759💀💀💀
To me Ulfric has good reasons to start this rebellion, but doesn't seem to be able to see passed his short term ambitions. If the Empire is already weak enough that it has to bend the knee to the Aldmeri Dominion, imagine its state after losing the support of a whole province. The elves won't stop their conquest after taking Cyrodiil. They're going to keep on taking and taking, and even if, for a time, Skyrim will be left alone thanks to their geographical location, soon, their neighbours will be locked in a war with the Aldmeri Dominion and then, Skyrim will have to fight AGAIN against the elves.
Ulfric is delaying a war he will have to fight eventually, but by delaying it he weakens his future ability to fight it.
Bro needs to take a deep breath and a big ass chill pill.
But skyrim in that time will be far stronger than if it were having its resources, silver, and warriors extracted by the empire.
@@ivercingetorix1367 True but probably not enough to defend against the dominion, they could broker a peace but after the war, even if the stormcloaks would win, most resources would have been wasted in the civil war and they'd need a lot of time to build a strong defense. But considering they'd win mainly because of dragonborn the dominion would hesitate wasting tons of resources on having someone shout them to death for another 10 years, the dragonborn could quite easily turn that tide so I guess in one way the stormcloaks do have quite good odds, without dragonborn though no shot.
@highway6098 I've always felt it was a good idea for skyrim to break off after all Hammerfell held off the elves and are a direct border to skyrim. Stormcloaks leave the Empire strengthen themselves up and join up with hammerfell two powerful nations known for there warriors
@@highway6098 That's all assuming the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks. Take the DB out of the scenario entirely (since them joining turns the tides of the Civil War and TES doesn't have a canon winner, we shouldn't use our gameplay choices as a guide of what 100% will happen).
Stormcloaks vs Imperials alone, Imperials would win hands down. They aren't currently sending their full forces to deal with Ulfric.
Even IF Ulfric managed to break away, what foreign support would he have for supplies and trade?
@@highway6098 keep in mind the logistical strain on the Dominion to successfully invade Skyrim.
The Dominion would have to, at minimum, defeat the Empire (which would be costly for the Dominion), and they’d have to devote large amounts of Soldiers and Logistics to hold occupied territory (all the while fighting against rebellions and insurgencies).
All the while, a victorious Ulfric will be arming, training, and preparing for war.
By the time Ulfric declares war, the Dominion would be exhausted from a second Great War, have their supply lines stretched across Tamriel, and facing insurgencies and rebellions all across their occupied territories. Whatever numerical advantage they had would be gone.
Jarl balgruuf is, in my opinion, the perfect moral compass in Skyrim. A strong man, who cares for his people no matter what (i.e. sending troops to riverwood), who cares not for race, only for character (like irileth) and who does not care much about what the Dominion has to say even letting a priest of talos preach right before his fortress.
He only joins with the empire out of necessity, because it's the lesser evil. He sees ulfric as the powermad racist he is, and while still being a true and brave Nord, he is also a smart one. He chooses not to divide Skyrim, but to keep the empire united for a second great war.
^ This. its one of the reasons why i play Imperial
Same 👍
Jarl Balgruuf has some dirty secrets though
I believe that Bethesda actually did a good job on the whole 'You are canonically the Thane of Whiterun'. They made me actually care about the fact that I'm supposed to be a protector of this hold and so, when Ulfric came knocking with an army at his back, I chose to spit on his face and Shout him off that gaudy throne of his.
Brovahkiin Ulfric Is racist????
Thalmor Justiciar: “We have outlawed and prohibited any worship of Talos. Is there anything you would like to confess?”
Me holding Mehrune’s Razor and the Wabbajack with Azura’s Star in my pocket: “uhh... no”
I confess every time to those self-righteous pricks that I will kill them and I do
Those are exactly the only daedric artifacts I have so far
And wearing Boethiah's ebony armor.
With Clavivus Vile's mask
@@ra_alf9467 While wearing Hircine's ring
Don’t forget, also carrying the mace of molag bal, dawnbreaker, ebony blade, sanguine rose, volendrung, oghma infinium, savior’s hide, ring of namira, skeleton key, skull of corruption and spell breaker.
I have every single daedric artifact
“I think I’ll go with the fuck both your factions faction”
The best option for a Thalmor supporter.
@@zenthr No? you wont let one side get stronger.
I see you’re a man of culture as well
goddamn skyrim fence sitters
Gay marriage- yeah pfff who wouldnt wanna live in a reasonable relationship
I like the idea that the empire is just waiting and building it's strength to crush the Aldmeri
kinda hard for a military infilitrated by AD infiltrator's to come up with any decent war plans that the AD don't already know about.
just sayin....
I like that idea too. Then the Stormcloaks have to fuck up that plan by existing and weakening the Empire with the civil war just like the Thalmor want
Thats exactly what the empire is doing. If you side with the storm cloaks and go to kill Tullies before he dies he tells Ulfric that he's doing exactly what the dominion wants. Which is getting rid of the only thing stopping the dominion from taking skyrim the empire
Peace for everyone except the Thalmor
No one and nazeem
Well,the thalmor got everything in their hands so..
@@Radioactivepaladin0703 except delphine, thalmor, and nazeem
@@imamfahrizal5624 delphine is not a bad guy , she's just stoopid
@@samsudin9203 She kinda is, though. She asked the Last Dragonborn to kill the homie Paarthurnax...
I was waiting for this for 7 years and 9 months. Now I can finally finish the game.
Kept you waiting, huh.
Wait wrong game.
Ooooooof
Well stormcloaks are racist soooooo.......
@Floppy N'wah
you’re is used as a shorter version of you are.
Your is used to refer to possessions.
@@ultra-nationalistodst8085 my apologies
First time I played Skyrim, I went Stormcloaks; heres why -
Imperials tried to murder me "just because". I was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and when they realized it they were like "oh.... meh, off with his head anyway". So, if they were willing to kill me literally over nothing, then that can't be good.
Secondly, Ulfric was in the same boat as me (er, carriage?) when we were being transported to our supposed deaths, which made me second-guess what crimes (if any) Ulfric committed.
After that, I watched videos and seems like a HUGE percentage of players went Imperial and I couldn't figure out why! Then, I watched a video explaining Ulfrics hot-headedness, as well as his war crimes, and how the Imperials were pros at governing. After that, I thought siding with the Stormcloaks was a mistake, so it makes me happy that with this video I'm not the only one who thought go Stormcloaks with weighing the options, pros, and cons as well as circumstances and behaviors of each upon first meeting them
yeah it was pro move from Titus Mede to surrender and allow ban of Talos worship without even consulting Jarls of Skyrim about it....
They were trying to speed up the execution to because the thalmor were there trying to get Ulfric free.
The Thalmor specifically list Ulfric as a dormant asset, and their desire for the war to continue to be inconclusive. The best chance humans have is to unite under one banner (empire) rebuild forces and drive the elves back to where they come from! @@villekuronen6242
When I first played Skyrim I was pro Stormcloak since the Empire tried to kill me, and because usually the “Empire” are the bad guys in games.
After playing through the game once or twice I started siding with the Empire. Stormcloaks are racists and the Empire needs as many people as it can get in order to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.
Then, after around 5k hours and way too much time delving into ES lore, I went back to the Stormcloaks. For way too many reasons to get into here, but mostly because they’re a colonizing foreign power and the stormcloaks simply want independence.
Then you get into stuff like Hammerfell doing the same thing and managing to hold off the Thalmor just fine, the fact that Skyrim has absurd natural defenses and the Thalmor would literally need to beat the Empire just to get to them, and that a major theme of Skyrim is the Empire’s downfall. The fact that they’re a shadow of their former selves, that all of their territories have been conquered or rebelled against them, that the Emperor has been assassinated, that the logo of the game is literally a crumbling Imperial emblem.
Imo it just makes sense that this game represents the fall of the empire, so even outside of what I personally think is “best”, this outcome just seems to be the most likely. Plus having the empire win and simply go back to the status quo seems like a poor choice narratively. To have the rebellion effectively be pointless.
Edit: There’s also stuff like the Empire suffering from problems like White Man’s Burden, which tbh is just gross to see and makes the Stormcloak’s racism less of a deal breaker, since the Empire is effectively the same way, just more arrogant about it. Tullius literally says the Nords are barbarians and that they need the Empire’s help to become civilized. That’s about as textbook as it gets.
I understand ulfrics actions, I just wish that he wouldve been more reasonable and willing to compromise with the young high king. Maybe he could have presented his case and the empire could have atleast bought time for them to reach full strength and unite against the thalmor. I just wish that there was a third option for these two sides because I can understand why they both did what they though was right. Rather than causing a civil war, ulfric could've became an imperial general gaining trust from the high king with his strategies and brute strength. With influence over the young high king ulfric could have persuaded him to cut ties with the thalmor once their full military strength was reached.
Sadly, i don't think it ever would have worked. Ulfric seems to have deluded himself into believing that the Empire WANTS to stay under Thalmor control. His lack of forethought is also a big concern. The Forsworn situation in the Reach also acts as a dark parody of Ulfric's fight. The Forsworn have as much claim to the Reach as The Stormcloaks have to Skyrim.
@@richardmazkin9994 Sybille Stentor says that in meetings, Ulfric spoke in words just shy of treason but Torygg never spoke to Ulfric about it, even though he agreed with him and would have gone for independance if Ulfric asked. Instead Torygg did nothing and made Ulfric believe he was just another Imperial puppet. The Forsworn may have claim to Skyrim, but so do the Falmer and Dwemer and unlike Ulfric, went straight to kiliinh at the earliest chance.
Dude, Ulfric already did a political speech during Torygg's moot to precisely make him advocate for independence. But what did Torygg do? He simply kept his sympathies for the Stormcloaks in secret and continued to support the Empire openly while the Thalmor were raping the Nords and Skyrim and the Empire was ravaging and squeezing Skyrim's resources.
Knowing all this, tell me. You're Ulfric, a veteran that fought for the Empire and has been betrayed by them during the Markarth Incident when they used him as a scapegoat, not to mention the fact that they have squeezing Skyrim for their own benefit and also are being the lapdogs of the Thalmor. Tell me, with all this background, do you actually would've approached Torygg to convince him (for a second time) to be independent, and thinking that wasn't going to support you because again, Torygg's sympathies were only known by Torygg?
You and I know the realistic answer.
@@richardmazkin9994he's not believing that, the thing is that he realizes that the Empire won't be able to recover or retaliate against the Thalmor in their lapdog state, plus the fact that the imperial recovery has been all but efficient during these 25 years. He knows that this empire is only a doom for Skyrim.
Lack of forethought? The man is more aware and pragmatic about the situation of the empire and skyrim than many and he has proved in the game several times how of a good military and political leader he is. He doesn't lack of forethought, he's clearly very lucid for the situation for everyone who stopped to analyze his character.
And comparing the forsworn with the Stormcloaks is very delusional. The Stormcloaks aren't daedra worshipers, neither are child killers or conspire with hagravens, and they don't act as terrorists with no formation or logistics. The Stormcloaks are organized, appointed to rule a country and not make chaos, and led by a competent and pragmatic leader.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb I agree. Ulfric's decision was rational and well made given the information he had at hand. The Empire has become too weak to even feasibly beat the Thalmor and now even protect their own provinces and are just robbing Skyrim at this point, as Ulfric says about the mines in Markarth and the Thalmor being allowed to freely operate across Tamriel allows them gather pawns and traitors or execute even those in power with mininal evidence.
RedGuards are so underrated. They have been single handedly fucking up the high elves in hammerfell
well not quirte singelhandidly
this is one of the smartest thing the empire did they basically discharged most of the imperial soldiers stationed in Hammerfell so they stayed and fought the aldemeri dominion and the dominion couldn't complain also they barely won the war.
Yeah. People often forget that they are the ones that make the best warriors on Tamriel, not nords or orcs.
Wolves600Gaming no no the red guards went fucking ham
TezZ they remind me of the Nubians with their bows or the black moors that were godly asf
@@Galaxy-rj1kj no you cna look it up they almost lost they barely won and that was when the Thalmor could only attack from one border next time they wont be lucky
Stormcloaks, Imperials, I dont care, As long I can kill off the thalmor im satisfied
Only possible through backing the Empire tbh
A man would be more happier with the belly full of mead
Agreeing with that
So the Empire then
@@McHobotheBobo *Stormcloaks
It’s the imperials. At the end of the stormcloak campaign Tullius says “this is what they wanted” referring to the thalmor. But, if you side with the imperials, he says “now the only thing we have to worry about is them” again referring to the thalmor.
So you take his words as unbiased lmao.
@@Aemond2024 It may be biased but Tullius has proven himself to be the kind of man who can look past what’s in front of him and see the big picture.
Ulfric, not so much. The only reason the Thalmor are in Skyrim and getting away with hunting talos worshippers is because he made a massive open display that drew the Dominion’s attention.
@@Aemond2024 He literally tells you the empire is gearing up to fight the thalmor again, and that's why they aren't sending as many reinforcements to Skyrim
@@Aemond2024 Why do you think the Empire only sent ONE legion (and an underequipped one at that) to Skyrim?
Because the rest of them are at the Dominion's border gearing up for another war. Christ, I'm now convinced that the difference between an Imperial and Stormcloak supporter is actually reading the lore.
@@M1DA5_ the empire has had 30 years to repopulate. Its legions are fully recovered. If they wanted to go to war they could have done so YEARS ago. You know, given that humans repopulate faster than elves. But no war has been declared by the empire
The empire going to war with the dominion is a huge cope
I feel that I need to side with the Empire because my good guy Dragonborns are loyal to Balgruuf first. Assuming that he is the first Yarl that the DB deals with and is welcomed by, I would feel terrible betraying him.
Feck balgruff he let the altmer come into white run and arrest n detain thorald grey mane. Wtf?? Then he let saadia a hammerfell redguard altmer sympathizer stay in the bannered mare. He needs yuh to slay the dragon , he's playing both sides until ulfric calls him out with the ax. And finally he asks yuh to talk to his child for him. He cant father right, he can't Nord right and he can't properly defend white run he compromised himself and his rank. He's no real friend he uses yuh. Soon as the stormcloaks take over white run balgruuf gets pissed off and verbally disses yuh everytime yuh go to the blue palace. Not to forget he let sorry a$$ maven black briar set up sabjorn and straight up high jack the meadery. Yuh don't want black briar meadery making honningbrew mead. Enjoy!!
He literally just made you thane because it's politically convenient
i feel like lore wise, hearing that the dragonborn sided with the empire because they like balgruuf would be the funniest thing ever
@@Noodle177Frankly, it would make the most sense imo. The DB is a literal demigod, a fragment of Akatosh Himself.
Why would a petty civil war ever concern a being of such power?
Only the Deadra and other dragons (plus DBs) can even hope to match them.
I’d like to think the dragon born had his own beliefs and lifestyle before before meeting bulgruuf. We simply did a task for white run and informed them about the attacks. The dragon born should be loyal to himself and his own beliefs before anyone else including bulgruuf.
We live in a society where Skyrim players can debate more peacefully than our actual world leaders
To be fair real lives and money arent at stake here
it's messed up but so true.
@@everythingsalright1121 that means people should be debating 1000x more peacefully but instead we just get threats of nuclear war by the children people put in the global offices
@@Saber23 You don't know too much about nucular wat threats, do you?
@@Avarice297 well China just threatened to use nuclear bombs on the U.S if we investigated the wuhan lab for their intentional release of covid19. So I would say he might know a bit more than you think.
*_i don’t need sleep, i need answers!_*
KruziiKriaan the empire is better, there ya go
@bearded patriot then skyrim would crumble into pieces
no other province would trade with them and slowly the aldermari dominion would take back skyrim and gain more power rather than the empire
@@t.t6294 I do agree with you skyrim needs the empire but what if the empire fails beating the thamor again I don't want a thamor skyrim I'm a nord legate for the empire and skyrim is my home and nobody's wants to lose there home
bearded patriot You really think that Skyrim by itself can do what the Empire united couldn’t against the Thalmor? Plus the fact that they don’t like to use magic puts them at an even greater disadvantage.
@@MrWongWey I do believe skyrim needs the empire but skyrim is my homeland and I believe the quicker the war ends the sooner we can deal with the true evil
I have a dumb head canon. In my fake little scenario, at the final battle when the Imperials take Windhelm, after Ulfric fights us and is knelt on the ground in defeat, I imagine either us as the Dragonborn or Tullius as a fellow soldier and war hero would extend a hand to Ulfric and convince him and the Stormcloaks to join the Empire and begin planning a way to fight back against the Aldmeri Dominion. I know that would probably never happen but still. I wish there was a way to spare him or Tullius.
same, don't want these men to die, just stop fighting each other
Exactly but Ulfric is still going to face execution or jail
By the time you're that point it's too late for him after everything he has done, he has to face retribution, you just don't come back from that. I just hate how shallow his judgement and temper is when it comes to dealing with other races and issues that need solving, and you know if Balgruf would side with Ulfric than it would be 100% obvious who the right choice is because it's such a large gamble that the legion in the disgusting state it's in has any chance at all at keeping the Thalmor out of their lands while I have zero doubt the Nords under their own government could easily repel attack after attack and even begin to conquer the weakened staging grounds their attackers use to stage their attacks into Skyrim after they decimate the opposing force that pushed into Skyrim but I don't know if I have the strength to betray a friend and condone the brash and often stupid actions/decisions that would result from a governing body lead by Ulfric.
Ulfric doesn't care about any of that. He's using the rebellion as a guise to claim power.
All he wants is the Throne of the High King of Skyrim. The edicts of the White Gold Concordant are nothing more than the justification to rally people to his cause to claim said throne.
He is a power hungry , short sighted fool.
Cicero is the best leader!
Hes best for the economy because he
*-Oils it*
*-Preserves it*
*-MASTRUBA-*
That’s it, I’m placing you under arrest
@@joshuadejager1947 agh DAMN iT LOOK! (Holy sounds)
@@arandomgreekfrombactria6302
By the Gods
What is that thing?
@@ra_alf9467its a dragon!!! Ready your weapons
He gets those *hard to reach* spots
Me: *looks up which faction is better and asks in comments for others opinions*
Fudgemuppet: *uploads video*
me: *checks through blinds*
StevieG He doesn’t need to look inside your house. *Hes already inside your home.*
Wrong
You look through the comments and hide
@@CoffeeSuccubus wrong he used the shadow stone and stood behind you and watched your screen
Years ago, when I had first watched this video, I agreed wholeheartedly with the assessment. I have played Skyrim since it was released in 2011, and have found myself shifting loyalties between the Stormcloaks and Imperials many times since then. However, upon watching it again in this current year, I find myself in complete disagreement with the pro-Stormcloak sentiment being expressed. While I do very much sympathize with the embittered Nords of Skyrim (being my favorite race in TES) as well as with Ulfric himself to a certain degree, I can no longer bring myself to support the idea of an independent Skyrim, whether under Ulfric or another ruler. Skyrim simply cannot stand against the Aldmeri Dominion alone, especially in its current state, and for the Nords to abandon their Breton and Imperial allies at this most crucial moment (the onset of the second great war) seems beyond stupid to me. This civil war was started by Ulfric, and the Dominion has been all too pleased with the results thus far, which have only served to benefit them in their ultimate goal of destroying the Empire and conquering Tamriel. In my opinion, they stand to benefit even more should Skyrim secede. Were High Rock to successfully secede from the Empire and join forces with Hammerfell, I can see an independent Skyrim joining such an alliance as being the best possible outcome, however, there is no way of knowing how this situation will unfold. Given our limited knowledge of what events are canonical in Skyrim, as well as what TES6 will hold in store for us in the near future, I must side firmly with the Empire at this point.
That was a fun read. I share most of your views but, conversely , I'm still 50.1% Stormcloak. Trying to see it from a in-game perspective, to a nord wanting independence there is no "lesser evil" between the Empire and the Dominion since the moment the Empire signed the White Gold Concordat. The "if Skyrim secedes, then both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks will be conquered by the Thalmor" argument becomes sort of a boogeyman, because either way to the Stormcloaks the situation is already lost. But if they take their chances and become independent they can very well form a new alliance with another kingdom as you stated.
Alternatively, as an independent nation they can try to take on the Thalmor on their own and get obliterated but it will be under their own terms at least. Live free or die *hard* !
Skyrim could absolutely defend against the elves
Keep in mind it has been 25 years since the great war and skyrim as well as the entire empire have been regained its lost strength in manpower long ago manpower while the elves are still limited in number.
Why do you think they have to make the humans fight themselves?
Because they cannot defeat the empire at this time by strength of arms
Nor would they be able to successfully invade and conquer skyrim as the natural environment makes that very difficult and that's not even mentioning the ferocious Nords who wont take kindly to elves landing in skyrim
Long story short :
When I was a kid, I used to side with the *Stormcloaks*
Then I grew older, I started to see the bigger picture, and I sided with the *Imperial*
Then I got interested in the lore, and I saw the "whole bigger picture".
And now, *I side with the Stormcloaks again*
I really want a Nordic Redguard alliance for TES VI
Would be hyper Based
@@OuhHey I would love to hear more on your opinions on this. I'm starting over (again) and I think I may agree with you but I'm not sure
@@OuhHey Yes. Like Eramidas, I would really like to hear your thoughts so please do tell us no matter how long the "long version" of your views will be. You may even manage to change my extremely deeply and well thought out decision to eventually side with the Empire. But it sounds like someone here could be wiser than me. Also, what do you people think about races? I always favored a Breton in Elder Scrolls games but is Breton really the only good/balanced race for Skyrim?
I joined the imperials bc the stormcloaks always had something to say about me being a Khajiit🙄
Why would a CAT want to fight for the freedom of skyrim
@@sosa7152 because said cat wants to one day see a free homeland and walk the warm sands without elvish torturefetish freaks attacking?
Your fault for playing a khajiit 😂
I would too, furry
Poor kitty :'(
I choose both depending on my character but I always run into the keep with ralof so I can kill that ole "forget the list, he goes to the block" head ass
Omg! LOL! Im dying. Thank you so much for that. I needed it.
i always picked hadvar, even when i first played because i thought when i was younger
"oh shit rebels? well i guess i understand why they nabbed me if they found me close enough to them...i probably should follow the actuakly fucking soldier then?" ...i also didnt give ralof a chance to tell me i could follow him until the SECOND character...still picked hadvar because FREE SMITHING SHIT!
@@meganobgutzkraka2398 it is free smithing shit regardless of your choice. Its just laying there. Who will stop you?
I wore her armour for so long after that.
MEGANOB GUTZKRAKA yeah i usually go hadvar because you get free steel and iron which is pretty good early game
I always found it wrong that the empire got their own armor but the stormcloaks just got recolored guard armor.
@Slender Man yes but stormcloaks aren't guards.
Because Stormcloaks are disgusting ragtag unwashed rebels who use only what they have.
@@TheVampMansonBut where would all of these stormcloaks gotten hold guard armor? Its kinda the same thing with everyone using the same steel armor everywhere
@@niko_8208 Because Ulfric was Jarl of Windhelm. He had an armory full of surplus guard outfits for his Hold and he repurposed the guard outfits into standard-issue for his militia of rebels. That's the only thing that can make sense for explaining why, at least.
@@TheVampManson that actually makes perfect sense thank you
Every time I try to side with the stormcloaks I can never go through with it after attacking whiterun. I always have to reload and switch sides, it's too painful.
Depending on how fast you are, you can just jump straight to Balgruuf with minimal casualties.
Just archieved the jagged crown with galmar brabbling through the whole dungeon. Im probably offf to Tullius now 😅
My analysis: Stormcloaks better represent Skyrim's National Interests.
1. Just because Skyrim will become independent from the Empire under their rule, does not mean the Nords won't be able to help the Empire to fight the Dominion. The Dominion will still pose a massive threat to Skyrim and it would be rational for the Nords to help the Empire in this fight. At least now the Nords will be fighting on their own terms.
*Skyrim's national interests would be a military-economic alliance with Hammerfell and a non-commital entente with The Empire, only for the threat of the Dominion.
2. The Empire is weak and self-serving. The Oblivion Crisis proved this. When push comes to shove the Empire will protect Cyrodiil before any other province and will in fact withdraw resources from the provinces to do so. How does that help those provinces?
3. The Empire has always been exploitative. Argonian Torture chambers by the count of Lewayiin? Check. Taking Ebony & Glass ore from Morrowind while also assisting in smuggling drugs into the country, opium-wars style? Check. Administering heavy war taxes on provinces that didn't even want to participate in the wars? Check. How about protecting Dunmer slave routes & plantations with Dunmer enslaving Khajiits & Argonians (who are themselves citizens of the empire) just to maintain those sweet sweet ebony deposits? How about signing off swaths of Hammerfell's land without asking the redguards how they feel about this?
As you can see, the Empire's propaganda is all nice and well, but when you dig a bit deeper you can see that the only reason the empire survived as long as it did is because of brute force. The Empire was only ever good for Cyrodiil. Hammerfell & Argonia proved that they was strong enough to stand on its own, and Morrowind proved that it is not valuable enough for the Imperial City to give a toss.
Finally, even Talos himself as Wulf in TES3:Morrowind says that the empire's days are over. It is time for change. Now is the time for strong nations like the Nords & Redguards to carve out their own free kingdoms.
1. Skyrim's resources would be incredibly poorly used if the Stormcloaks hold it instead of the Empire. The Stormcloaks already struggle to halt the worst the Empire has to toss their way. Having Skyrim be in control of that incompetent bunch is a bad thing for Mankind.
2. The Legions being recalled is Redoran propaganda. Cyrodiil was neglected by the Legions, none of the counties could count on Legion support, even before the crisis broke out. The cities of Cyrodiil had to send their guardsmen to Bruma to defend the heir to the throne because the Legions were fully committed in the provinces.
3.
Leyawiin: Became independent shortly after the Oblivion Crisis because its rulers didn't hold particular loyalty to the Empire.
Skooma: Wasn't smuggled in by the Empire, skooma is an illegal narcotic in the Empire.
Slavery: Empire outlawed slave raids, and hardly acted against abolitionist movements like the Twin Lamps. The Empire didn't defend slavery, and it was because of the pro-Empire Hlaalu that slavery was eventually abolished.
War Tax: War taxes are put in place so the Legion can defend the Empire.
Hammerfell: The alternative was getting conquered in its entirety. The Empire signed off the parts of Hammerfell that the Dominion had already conquered to prevent the Aldmeri from taking over the rest.
Wulf doesn't say that the time of the Empire is over. Why do you Stormcloaks always struggle to read what he says?
@@dutchpatriot17
1 No they wouldn’t be poorly used. The higher ups in the stormcloak army are imperial Great War veterans when there is peace for a few years the military can be better trained and organized. You can’t do this the middle of a civil war. Those higher ups in the stormcloak army are now experienced fighting 2 war one against the thalmor. Even the bottom level soldiers are battle harden. The nordic legions were also the ones who saved the empire in the battle of the red ring and had the thalmor running wear they could have fought to much better terms.
2. What about moving troops out of hammerfell. Handing it over, letting the thalmor kidnap and murder talos worshipers.
@@DC-fy7hy 1. Only Galmar and Ulfric are Great War veterans. Nothing indicates this to be the case for others in the Stormcloak ranks.
Also, it were the Legions of Cyrodiil that reclaimed the Imperial City. Not the Legions of Skyrim.
2. That's irrelevant to what was being spoken of, but anyway:
Had those troops not been recalled, odds are that the Dominion would've won.
The territories of Hammerfell demanded in the Concordat were already largely conquered by the Dominion.
And the Justiciars were only allowed into Imperial territory due to Ulfric's collaboration with the Thalmor at Markarth.
Not enough people remember the empire itself was a rotted carcass of what it might have been eons ago. Martin Septim, Tiber Septim, and the Hero of Kvatch do NOT represent what the empire was much less what it currently is. It's not that outrageous that the people who best know what Skyrim wants are... The people of Skyrim. As an Argonian, I have zero love for the empire. They were just standing there doing nothing for at minimum two eras while the Dunmer raided black marsh and took Argonians for slave labor... Khajiit too I guess but it's hard for me to get mad about that
Milk drinker
Battle-born: you! Grey-mane or Battle-born?
Me, an orc: .....wtf?
That guy from Windhelm: are you one of those “Skyrim for the nords” types
Me:.... does no one have eyes here?
Someone else probably: do you worship talos
Me: [holds wabbajack and fireball spell] ........uhh
A lot of orcs side with the Imperials, so....
The best part of that 'Are you one of those Skyrim for the Nords type' is that, if you are not a Nord, you can respond with "Yes, outsiders like me have no place in Skyrim".
There is no reason in siding with Stormcloaks for non-nord players, Bethesda has failed in making a good opposing faction.
@@PseudonymsAreGovno And you instantly blame the fact that you dont like the Stormcloaks on Bethesda? The Stormcloaks are slightly based on actual rebels (cant remember from which country and time period at this moment) that wanted to get rid of all foreigners. The Stormcloaks are a good opposing faction, you just don't like them.
@@RobertDecker417 They are based on NSDAP, a one specific German party what blamed all of problems of Germany either on foreigners or on "internal enemy".
Regardless I, personally, don't understand how anyone, except Nord, would want to join their questionable cause.
Also 4th era Nords had forgotten their gods (especially Shor, their main god), they are now worship an Imperial deity - Tiber Septim (Talos), who basicly replaced old Ysmir (Wulthharth). So they are basically an Imperial hillbillies. They aren't Nords anymore.
I personally don't like Stormcloacks not because they are racists or basically nazi (it's makes them very unappealing, though), I don't like them because their cause is stupid and because there is no reason for non Nords to join them.
A Talos worshiping soldier-emperor (Commander who was proclaimed as
emperor by his subordinates) would have been better alternative as opposing faction.
All the imperials and Nords fighting each other and then there’s me just sitting around as a lizard dude.
Andrew Anderson *cat
sitting outside the windhelm city walls as a lizard dude
Just chilling smoking hist and injecting skooma
Andrew Anderson the imperial army has all races in its ranks
Me : (as a Redguard) Looking for my friend Nazeem, just look at this leather armor
About to start my first Skyrim playthrough never played it before but I loved fallout new Vegas and fallout 3 so I'm sure ill love it can't wait to start. A 1000 hour playthrough I heard this game is fantastic like Witcher wild hunt level of good
Honestly the best game ever. I even read alot of the books. Basically any book with decent gold value I most definitely read.
It's been a week. What do you think of it so far
Game is amazing ... not sure why dafuq it took me so long to even start ..... Play how you want. Doing main quest is good, doing Side quests are good, walking around with no actual intention too is good.
@@beefdust. fantastic
The story isn't anywhere close to New Vegas or Witcher 3, but it's still good.
"what the rebels seem to forget is the empire is the only thing keeping the dominion out of Skyrim"....except the one's kidnapping, torturing, and slaughtering the citizens of Skyrim.
Yet you guys forget that those kidnappings et cetera are becauae of Ulfric.
They aren't talking about the Thalmor you dolt.
@@dutchpatriot17 the Thalmor IS the dominion you dolt. Who do you think runs it.
@@podroznikzpustkowi4805 no the kidnappings are because the empire gave the Thalmor northwatch keep and gave them permission to abduct anyone who worships talos
@@micahben-avraham5635 The fact that you can't understand what the Legionnaires mean says more about you than them, lol.
I think if Tullius told you that the empire is planning an uprising, it would've been a good time to tell Ulfric that at the peace meeting for the main quest
Did you forget that Elenwen was present? I know that the player can tell her to go fuck herself and leave, but the fact that she even showed up in the first means that disclosing those plans isn't a very smart thing to do.
@@mcgoldenblade4765 only goes to show that the Empire is the Thalmor's bitch right now
Roo Jackaroo only on the surface. The empire have been rebuilding and growing right under the Thalmor’s nose. And at the point in time of Skyrim it’s confirmed that the empire actually has more forces than the thalmor who are at their weakest. The races of man repopulate like rabbits in comparison to the high elves. The empire has been preparing since the signing of the white gold concordat for when the thalmor try crossing them.
@@jordanscott4543 I seriously doubt the empire has any chance against the Thalmor. The only losses the Thalmor faced are the devastation of their army at the battle of Red Ring. The empire lost thousands and thousands of civilians and military personnel which ruined Cyrodiil's economy and would have caused damage they are still recovering from. The empire is so desperate they couldn't afford to send Tullius reinforcements to conserve their meagre army for the next war and they are fools for that because they underestimate the ability of the rebels.
The fact that the Dark Brotherhood emperor assassination is framed as 'something which will help the empire' should tell you enough that Titus Mede II will ruin the Empire in the 2nd great war
Roo Jackaroo except for the fact that the Thalmor as well are reeling from what’s going on in Tamriel. The empire’s forces are actually growing while the Thalmor’s have at best stagnated. Humans are like rabbits in comparison to the elves. At the end of the day the Thalmor sees the Empire as the biggest fish to tackle so they’re trying to take out as many chunks as they can by prolonging a civil war. And while no one (except for the Thalmor of course) know that the stormcloaks are pawns, the empire does know that the Thalmor are up to something. The Thalmor however don’t know that they know. The empire at this point is bolstering and just waiting for the Thalmor to throw their first punch. Plus the fact that it’s a toss up of which side of the civil war comes out on top despite the fact that the imperial side is underfunded and has no reinforcements available further proves to me that the stormcloaks surely stand no chance against the Thalmor. The stormcloaks are weak they’re having a hard time fighting a small weak imperial occupation in Skyrim. Meanwhile that’s not all of the empire. So if the empire can’t beat the Thalmor the stormcloaks definitely can’t
Why did you join the impierials?
**I don't know, Hadvar was nice to a dying prisoner I guess**
Up to the block you go prisoner. Captain gonna cut ur head off now. Rolof was nicer.
So many join the Stormcloaks by default because "the Empire tried to cut my head off for no reason!!!1"
@@omniis_chillin5288 I also belive that if your odds are against you, you might as well go for peace which is what the empire did.
Too many centuries in the ice has damaged those stormcloak brains.
I joined the imperials because that’s the only way personally I think Skyrim can stay in check because if they go independent The Elves are prolly gonna conquer skyrim anyways if they break away from the empire
@@epicplaye5150 well I mean the empire wanted keep the dragon born in check, the elfs would have been the least of their problem if the empire succeeded
Hadvar: "Captain his name's not on the list, what should we do with him?" Captain: "He goes to the block anyway."
Me: "Yah... so that is why you have a rebellion, and I am going to be part of it."
I typically side with the Empire in the Civil War Storyline, but I always leave with Ralof in Helgan so I can kill that Captain and give the Empire a bloody nose for trying to kill me. Also killing the captain is the most RNG free way of getting an Imperial Captain Helmet early on, and it looks so much better than the standard Imperial Heavy Helmet.
The Empire still has idiots in it, but overall they are so much more moral than the stormcloaks, and will eventually defeat the dominion
Incredible video, it's so impartial and so well argued for both sides that he makes a very good case for both. It may bother some people who already think that both sides suck, but I think it actually helps *immersion* and roleplaying even more. It gives you good reasons to join either side, it gives you passion, motivation, maybe even emotional involvement if you're a hardcore roleplayer like me lol
"Why'd you join the Imperials?"
Me: "Those damn Elves."
"Fair enough."
@Whiterun Guard We got some funny milk drinkers here.
@Whiterun Guard yet the empire bent a knee to the thalmor when they were pushing the elven armies out
William Stark the aldemeri dominion isnt strong strictly because of the high elves. Its the other races that support the high elves. The high elves were the one who struggled the most when the oblivion crisis occurred
@Whiterun Guard both stormcloaks and imperials are thalmor puppets
Me playing as a High elf out running every enemy
I choose the peace treaty, give the thalmor the boot, then afterwards end the war with the imperials, but use pacify spells and Emperor’s voice to lower any possible casualties. Once had it end with about 19 Imperial soldiers and 16 Stormcloaks listening to Tulius’ speech at the end of the war. Even after the war is officially over and the spells/ability wears off, they do not fight. It is nice.
Hidden Desire I never thought about doing that, but it sounds like a great way to do the war if you’re a more passive character!
Cool. Almost like some Stormcloaks saw through Ulfric's bullshit, & laid down their swords to the Empire to take out Ulfric.
... I just killed them all
*I hate sand*
@@gooutdessert4113 its course... and, rough, and irritating... and it gets everywhere
You know, used to be that I was all for the idea of siding with the Stormcloaks and throwing off the shackles of the Dominion, cutting through the cowardly, weak imperials and reclaiming Skyrim for its rightful heirs. However nowadays I just see Ulfric as an impatient child who's ruled entirely by his own emotions. He doesn't see the bigger picture, he doesn't think long-term, and he's fully willing to bowl his way hrough anyone that doesn't think like he does or want what he wants.
Jonna's legion of nords being such a crucial part of the Battle of The Red Ring gives weight to the idea that if Ulfric were to once again ally himself with the Empire, especially with the influence he holds now, he would be able to get much more done when it comes to opposing the Dominion. However, he's not willing to do so. He's set in his ways, and is intent on reclaiming Skyrim for him and his chosen people, no matter who or what gets in his way.
In my opinion, siding with the empire is the sensible solution to the civil war. If the Stormcloaks win, the end result is a weakened Skyrim at odds with both the Dominion and the Empire, meaning that the province is very much stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Empire wins the result is still a weakened Skyrim, however one under Imperial control that the Dominion dare not risk attacking, as that would plunge Tamriel into a second Great War, which they're not fully prepared for.
You’ve pretty much described my line of thinking to a tee. The Empire is the only nation in Tamriel remotely strong enough to even think about fighting the Dominion, and Tullius makes it pretty clear they intend to do so… *once the Empire’s strength is recovered.*
That requires that they give lip service to the terms of the White-Gold concordat and not openly antagonize the Dominion. And they could basically give talos worshippers a slap on the wrist and a whisper to hide their worship better as they did. All that is required in the situation is *patience*.
…Queue Ulfric retaking Markarth and openly declaring that Talos will be worshipped, causing the Dominion to respond and forcing the Empire to allow them to manage the persecution of Talos worship, because the Empire isn’t ready to fight yet. Suddenly the slaps on the wrist from people who are on your side are replaced by torture and execution from people who look upon you as vermin.
@@Buzzy_Bland In Ulfric's defense: He "openly declared" the freedom of Talos worship because that was the agreed upon payment from the Empire for retaking the Reach. To suggest the Empire is better at playing the long game in regard to Talos worship requires one to overlook the fact that it was the Empire that put Talos worship in Skyrim on the table to begin with.
By signing the White-Gold Concordat the Empire stifiled freedom of religion is every territory they controlled. Then, they said "we'll give you your freedom of religion back if you put your lives on the line in the Reach for us;" a promise they immediately broke by not allowing the worship of Talos, throwing a veteran in jail, and allowing the Gestapo: Thalmor Edition to run free in the province.
In short, this was not a "dumb Nords aren't being strategic" issue, but a "the Empire are backstabbers who tricked the Nords into doing their dirty work and then turned around and sent in torture squads" problem.
The Empire is not the only nation strong enough to fight the Dominion as we can see with Hammerfell. In regard to Skyrim we can see that in terms of both political and physical geography there is no easy way for the Thalmor to invade Skyrim. Even a weakened Skyrim would be able to fight off the Thalmor due to the climate and geography.
The rebellion is a necessity to garauntee basic rights and peace for all Nords in Skyrim- not just the ones looking to lick Thalmor and Imperial boot.
@@skyrimswifty1381 So, what exactly are these "basic rights". The concordat just banned Talos worship, dissolved the blades and caused the secession of Hammerfell.
There was peace, and Talos was still worshiped, they just can't shout it out loud. Even Rikke is implied to worship Talos, and she is with the empire...
There's even a public shrine of Talos in Whiterun...
There are hidden shrines or monuments of Talos around Skyrim.
What Ulfric did was to start a war, kill the rightful king and polarize his kind. Besides, he is willing to smash whoever does not agree with him.
There's even said that if Ulfric would have speak with Torygg, the last one would have stood against the empire, and probably in the end, the empire and Skyrim may have come to a peaceful settlement.
But Ulfric just went, kill the High King and started a war against everyone who does not follow him.
"The Empire is not the only nation strong enough to fight the Dominion as we can see with Hammerfell"
Did you knew that when Hammerfell decided to continue fighting the empreror allowed them to peacefully become independant, and not only left them alone, but allowed most of the legionnaires stationed in Hammerfell to fight the Dominion by declaring them "invalid". Hammerfell was not left as alone as you may think.
"the Empire are backstabbers who tricked the Nords into doing their dirty work and then turned around and sent in torture squads"
1.- When there's a known agreement and you by yourself go against it and then you are punished, it is not a backstab.
The one who made the promise of reestablish the cult to Talos was the Jarl, not the empire. When the Reach was again in control of the Nords, and the empire sent men,
Ulfric didn't allow them to enter till they recognized Talos as a God. In the end the empire left the Reach alone, hopping the Thalmor would not figure out the reestablished cult to Talos.
But they did, forcing the empire to imprison Ulfric and his men to avoid war.
2.- You are talking as if the majority of Skyrim citizens were being tortured, when that's clearly not the case.
3.- It is stated that the emperor send chests full of gold as an apologize for signing the concordat.
In the end what Ulfric did by starting a civil war was to cause more pain and more blood to be spilled in an unnecessary way.
So no, the rebellion was not necessary.
@@carlosrodrigoacosta3937 the shrines in Skyrim are being hunted down by the Dominion and the reason there’s one in Whitetun is because at the start of the game the city is neutral and thus doesn’t recognise the authority of the Empire and thus the White Gold Concordant.
@@carlosrodrigoacosta3937 I'd say that if the peoples and ruling classes of Skyrim truly wanted more independence and autonomy, the proper route to take would indeed be a peaceful setlement.
The High King of Skyrim and the Emperor could sign treaties to form a sort of Confederation, keeping ties, mutual aid in various forms, trade and the like.
This would allow peace, mutual continued prosperity and the worship of Talos in Skyrim while technicaly not breaking the Concordat.
Though Ulfric kind of squandered that option.
Why I side the Stormcloack
1. Empire is about to beheaded me
2. Thalmor order to kill me
It's war anyone can executed as collateral, siding with the Stormcloaks indeed won the battle but not the bigger war. Thalmor will saw this an opportunity to kill both Imperials and Stormcloaks in Skyrim months after the successful rebellion.
CAN WE PLEASE DESTROY THE THALMOR IN TES VI
Its 8 years after the dragonborn soooo it could be possible!
Well... AD is the cause for almost every if not all of the TES games chaos.. So i dont think its possible to remove them from the next elder scrolls. Unless the next elder scrolls will be all about fighting them or with them.
@@MyTonyGames its confirmed the time it will take place in?
No. We've had 4000 years of human empires. Time for a second Merethic era!
@@Aethuviel ur a fucking monster
Me: *Installs Become High King Of Skyrim*
Ysgramor and rest of sovngarde looking at the Last Dragonborn: "What a mad lad!"
@Gallowyn no mod like that
Too bad Become High King is kinda...
Basic.
Wisemankugel Memicus is there any mods like it that are better? I’ve been itching to become high king or jarl since I started playing
@@mugsyy I wish.
Gallowyn I forget what it’s called exactly but is it rebuild Helgen or riverhelm?
Wow amazing video you had me teetering back and forth one who I need to back in this war.
Elder Scolls 6, it's time we put the Thalmor out of the picture
The Thalmor have existed since the early second era for nearly 1000 years. They were involved in all 3 incarnations of the Aldmeri Dominon and will exist as long as the Altmer do.
@@richardlandgraf1953 Yes, however during most of the Septum Dynasty the Thalmor were a small and insignificant group and seen by many High Elves and other Imperial officials as a meaningless cult of High Elves, similar to how many people view the Prohibitionist Party in the US today. However during the Oblivion Crisis the Thalmor more were successful at closing gates than Imperial soldiers and Imperial officials were, and because of that they were seen as heros by the High Elven population of the Summerset Isles. They quickly grew in size and power and soon they gained independence and began shaping the population of the isles similar to how all populist authoritarians shape populations. Eventually the Thalmor successfully created a nation of devout, loyal, and numerous followers who think and feel that they are a superior race above all others and that its their destiny to subjugate and rule everyone else.
@@walterfielding9079 I'm not saying they were important the whole time. I'm simply saying they've been around for more of recorded history in some form and most likely aren't going anywhere anytime soon, especially since they are arguably at the height of their power in the 4th era.
@@richardlandgraf1953 Hopefully they are at their height. That means the Empire will win the next war 😆
@@walterfielding9079 If they do resolve their conflict it will have to be because of something outside of the Dragonborn's influence so any playthrough can be canon.
I actually noted and realized something:
Eventually and regardless of who you support, that side will have to eventually deal with a Dragonborn that acquiesces to the dragon blood in them, calling for gathering even more power and dominion of their own.
Remember that Paarthurnax mentions this: "We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not?" This seems to tell me that the Dragonborn will look upon either Emperor Mede or Ulfric Stormcloak and start seeing them as the lesser and weaker. Much like Alduin's own 'army' he held significant position and power, and all the dragons (except Paarthurnax) heeded his will, but the moment Alduin was thrown aside and beaten by a mere mortal Dragonborn, they fled and questioned his will and power, as noted by Odahviing.
Meaning this: Side with the Imperials and you'll at least give Ulfric the rite to enter Sovrengarde because he dueled and fought with a Dragonborn in an impossible to win fight, which is possibly a Nord's dream. But in return, the Dragonborn will look at Emperor Mede as a weakling ruler that is barely holding on to prepare for the Second Great War, and they may make a move that establishes himself either equal or greater to Mede.
On the other hand: Side with the Stormcloaks and you will be hailed and beloved by the Nords and the Imperials would (in a wide variable possibility) start abandoning posts or loyalty due to Dragonborn status and legend tied to the Septim line, as Dragonborns were just as essential to the Empire as they were to the Nords. However, once the civil war is over, Ulfric would have to constantly watch his entire being around the Dragonborn, because soon enough he'll be seen as an incompetent and seeing that his Thu'um is weaker and his physical power barely able to stop them, the Dragonborn may begin to plot and backstab Ulfric for the position of High King.
*_"Dov wahlaan fah rel." (Dragons were made to dominate)_* And who better terrifying than the very Last Dragonborn with two dragons, one of which immortal, at their beck and call?
The only thing Mede has to deal with is his cancel wanting him dead. Otherwise this makes some sense.
Ulfric may actually help the Last Dragonborn take the empire though.
Shit can it be lore in the next game that the Dragonborn overthrew the empire after gaining control over the stormcloaks and Through the Dragonborns might and tactical prowess he pushed the dominion back to there stupid little island.
ItsDaKoolaidDude me a kahjiit “how the fuck did the emperor shaq his way into my bloodline?”
Chibi Cthulhu I doubt they’d totally eliminate the Thalmor by next game, but since the next game is likely in Hammerfell, which left the Empire, they could easily say the Dragonborn took over the Empire and is currently fighting the Thalmor.
I only fought with the storm cloaks because Ulfrick looks like my dad.
then your dad should teach you some thu'um
Then your dad must be hot err.. should teach you some thu'um
169nice
The best reason there is
That’s extremely valid
i think the empire winning is canon because it makes other quests make much more sense, like if the stormcloaks were real do you really think they would let the thalmor embassy stay, the east empire trading company trade out of both solitude AND windhelm and then just let the emperor himself go on a boat trip in solitude?
Ulfric would most likely continue trade with the empire and would make bonds with high rock and the redguards I'm pretty sure he's quoted saying that in the game as well plus the Dragonborn is most likely creating a new Empire as every Dragonborn before him
@@kendallallen6634 and why would the Empire continue trade with Skyrim? Even after taking Skyrim, the war isn’t over. The Empire remains an enemy of the Stormcloaks. Letting the emperor casually visit Solitude makes no sense either. Look at it from the other angle. Would the Empire just casually let Ulfric visit the Imperial City?
@@Delete240 like I said if the dragonborn is involved which he and sides with the stormcloaks he would be able to make the empire bow down to him along with the rest of them the Dragonborn is the ultimate enemy of the thalmor and in this case the enemy of my enemy is a friend ulfric knows the thalmor are the biggest treat
It’s likely the side/main questlines and such happen before the civil war ends
I disagree, I feel like Skyrim is clearly leaning into the fall of the Empire.
Firstly, compare Skyrim’s Empire with previous entries. It’s a shadow of its former self, losing practically every province under its control to rebellion or the conquering of other factions. Then you have the fact that their emperor got murdered, and, most on the nose, the logo for the game is a literal crumbling imperial emblem.
As for your points, that’s easily explained by the events of the civil war canonically taking place *after* those quests. After all, you could easily argue that an empire victory doesn’t make sense if you did the dark brotherhood before starting the civil war. Like what, the emperor dies and *nothing* changes, Tullius just continues on as usual, no need to reevaluate? Clearly the canon would be that the emperor was killed after an imperial victory, should the imperial victory be canon.
Regardless, I also feel that it would be a waste for the empire to win. It would make the entire rebellion narratively pointless, and returning things to the status quo with the empire would be a pretty bizarre, boring choice after everything they’ve built up.
Happy holidays to everyone over at FudgeMuppet! Best wishes and hopes for you all!
Since release, I’ve always been astounded that players have no moral qualms about joining the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, but there’s so much debate about the civil war. Professional thief and murderer? No problem. Soldiers who throw around racial slurs? AYO HOLD UP. That says a lot about us. Whether good or bad, you be the judge.
With the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, there is no doubt that they are bad people. With the civil war, things are not so clear. Some contend that blind obedience to a corrupt and oppressive government should be maintained, because they've done so for so long, or that its strength makes it right. While others believe that the rights and freedom of the people must take precedence over the decrees of the government.
... who is right? depends on your mind set. one sides Hero is often the other sides villain.
im a criminal but i wont be caught dead being a racist
@@vicieux7789 TALK TO 'EM
There's definitely weight to this insight. That said- those guilds have no mission statement to govern Skyrim or determine the future of Tamriel. The outcome of the Civil War simply has much greater effects on the world as a whole and is therefore more worthy of moral examination. Indeed, the Brotherhood in particular could be a major player in the political theater given their ability to assassinate the Emperor, but likely maintains a stern philosophy of political apathy and neutrality.
@@mbazzanella6400 What’s more, I’ve noticed that people who strongly oppose imperialism in their real life politics will often argue that the Empire is the right side of the civil war. I’ve played both the Imperial and Stormcloak side. The Stormcloaks “feel” more right to me, and I always have more fun fighting for them. I think it comes down to me having a deep streak of the “You can’t tell me what to do,” attitude.
You know a game is good when it’s 8 years old and people are still having heated discussions over elements of it’s plot/lore
Proud American
We’ll theorize and wonder until the scribes and lore keepers of Nirn deliver to us concrete answers. At which point, we will have more questions at the ready.
Skyrim is a good game, but the main quest seems to short and no that good as Oblivions. Sure Skyrim has better graphics but I only care how good the story is, and plus the Blades aren't destroyed.
I am subscribing because of the background music that just goes well with your voice.
See, I have always had a very different approach to how I think of the Empire vs the Stormcloaks. I think a lot of people consider who is right and who is wrong, or who is better for skyrim, or who is the best choice morally.
I understand that from a lore perspective it can be difficult to place as much weight on the actions of a player character because it's more of a challenge to create lasting lore about a character who is different for each person who plays the game. It's your self insert. Even so, I think of this not from the limited perspective of what the Empire or Stormcloaks can do for Skyrim and instead think of what what the Empire or Stormcloaks can do for me, as the Dragonborn.
Now when I say it that way, it sounds very selfish. But over the course of Tamerialiic history, the Dragonborn have been hugely influential and powerful people. Martin Septim had only just realized his true identity and power and he was able to make that sacrifice to bring an Avatar of Akatosh forth to beat a Daedric Prince in his full physical manifestation. The Dragonborn in Skyrim has all the potential of the Dragonborn that came before, however, he also has now feasted upon the souls and knowledge of potentially hundreds of dragons. The Dragonborn near single handedly shifts the balance of the civil war bringing it to a conclusion.
And it doesn't stop there as the Dragonborn's full potential sees them mastering the voice, obtaining power from countless daedric princes, assassinating the current standing rather weak Emperor. They form alliances with and potentially head guilds of thieves and assassins, have the aid and respect of countless people they've saved or aided. So why in all of that would my Dragonborn's adventures end in Skyrim? This is a hero of epic proportion who specializes in putting down strife and chaos, and all of Tamriel is laced with just the kind of problems that are perfect for my Demi-god to go and solve.
So, I could take my god-like powers to run the Empire out of Skyrim. I could aid Ulfric in taking the position of High King. But now when the war is over he's going to be more interested in staying home and shoring up his defenses against the Thalmor than aiding OTHER provinces. So now, I as the Dragonborn will have to go to these other Provinces, some of which are still part of the Empire, and Cyrodil itself, and convince them that I have their best interest at heart despite having taken from them one of the best fighting forces in Tamriel as Ulfric selfishly stays home pushing anyone who isn't a Nord out of the safest place from the Aldmeri Dominion.
Or I can squash Ulfric's attempt at a rebellion, keeping the Empire unified. The Empire is headless, and there's only one known Dragonborn on the entire continent. What Ulfric wanted to do on a small selfish scale, my character like many Dragonborn before me, can do on a massive Empire spanning scale. I can use my near godlike power to bring the Empire under my control, push the High Elves back onto their island and dismantle the Aldmeri Dominion, with the option to be part of the empire and keep their island while ceasing all dickbag like activity...or have High Elves not be a playable option in the next Elderscrolls game. Which given that not all High Elves would be in favor of the Aldmeri Dominion, I think they'll opt for the first option.
There will be plenty of strife but I don't see any other max level Dragonborn stepping up to tell my character what's what
The Thalmor Dossier did also mention that they didnt want either side to win, just endlessly go on. They wanted to avoid stormcloaks winning as well.
the dossier said that Ulfric is a dormant asset to the Thalmor, and that Imperial victory at Helgen would've also hindered their efforts to prolong this civil war, softening up both Imperials and Nords through a war of attrition. they just want to avoid any victory, or truce, in the civil war at all
wish we could confront Ulfric about the dossier on himself, maybe get him to change course and remember who the real enemy of Skyrim is, but such content was not developed or implemented 😮💨
@@driftingdruidthat’s not what it says, read it again.
@@Old_Joseph it says exactly what he said. I just checked.
@@driftingdruid He’s only an “asset” because of his rebellion against the Empire. He’s not feeding the Thalmor info, or contributing to their cause. Once either side wins, he ceases to become an asset anymore, because the war is over.
@@arynrowland862 but his temper has proven easy enough for them to emotionally manipulate, just like Elenwen did when she tortured him. possible that the slander said to him under the duress of torture was a factor in his actions during the Markarth incident, and possible that the Thalmor can manipulate him again in the future
Jarl Ulfric: *We will build a great, beautiful wall of fortresses along our southern mountain border and the Elves will pay for it!*
Oliver Hugaas The elves live on an island, no need for a wall
@@godobibo I don't think they are to keep the Elves out specifically, just that the Aldmeeri dominion will cover the monetary costs of the construction.
Sounds like a great idea MAKE SKYRIM GREAT AGAIN
Akatosh bad Auriel good
Ulfric 6 months after becoming High King: Ok maybe we cant make the elves pay for it... We'll pay for it taking money away from the rebuilding founds and hope it will be enough
One thing you get wrong is the full power of the Imperial military. Following the Season Unending quest, you can ask General Tullius why the Empire won't send more troops to Skyrim. His response is that the vast majority of the Legion is on the southern border with the dominion. He states that the civil war in Skyrim is a "sideshow" to the rest of the empire and that the Emperor's priority is preparing for a second Great War. Not to mention most of the Legion you see in Skyrim are local recruits and not the professional soldiers you would see on the front lines. If the Empire really wanted to, they could crush the Stormcloak rebellion in weeks. The Legion that the Stormcloaks are fighting in Skyrim is equivalent to a garrison army in a Total War game.
Other than that point, I think a big reason why people should side with the Empire is because its Ulfric's fault that the dominion is in Skyrim in the first place. Prior to the civil war, most people kept worshipping Talos in secret while the Empire turned a blind eye and pretend it wasn't happening. It wasn't until Ulfric began his uprising that the Empire had to crack down on Talos worship. You can literally see this in-game. Before the Battle of Whiterun, Talos worship is allowed in the city despite it being an imperial province (Whiterun by default is imperial due to its neutrality). It's not until Balgruuf is forced to allow Legion troops in the city to defend against Ulfric's attack that Talos gets banned. Ulfric literally creates his own enemies.
Additionally the Stormcloak army is a proxy that is secretly supported by the Thalmor. They don't support them enough to win the war outright but enough so that they can match the local imperial garrisons. If it wasn't for Thalmor support, the Stormcloaks would have lost before the game even started. The same is with the dragon attack on Helgen. You can also look in the game files and hear a cut conversation with General Tullius and Elenwen in which Elenwen tries to get Tullius to hand over Ulfric to Thalmor custody (No doubt to let him escape and continue the civil war). Tullius stands up to her and declines her request, clearing showing that the Empire can still boss the Thalmor around if the situation allows it.
As for Stormcloak negatives, Ulfric is a massive racist who subjugates non-Nords to living in the poorer district of Windhelm (with one exception) and prevents Argonians from entering at all. If Ulfric had his way, we would see the forceful deportation of non-Nords from Skyrim which would be a serious blow to Skyrim's economy and labor pool. Not to mention the Stormcloak "plan" to invade the Dominion is laughable at best. The idea of one province amassing an army large enough to take on the Dominion is ridiculous, not to mention near-impossible since Skyrim is almost completely landlocked and surrounded by hostile neighbors. Even if they built enough boats they would have to sail through frozen waters and across all of High Rock and Hammerfell which would be logistically difficult even for a united Tamrielic Empire.
With all this in mind, I think anyone who genuinely sides with the Stormcloaks lacks the ability to think critically and can't see past the game's first quest.
I am an Indian and this is like asking British or Indians who will be better ruler for India. I will always side with stormcloaks because they are fighting for their freedom.
Small factual error, the war is possible not specifically because the Empire is that weak, but because the Aldmeri were sabotaging the Empire from stopping the war, they blocked the pale pass with an avalanche
@@spasdelev1284 not necessarily. Because the legion that was going to skyrim is a separate one. So the imperial force on the Southern border is the same. Funny enough by sabotaging the pail pass the domion will now have to suppsedly deal with 3 legions in cyrodiil instead of just 2. That's esuming that thay don't hold off on invading until the supposed 3rd Legion clear the pass and march on skyrim
You realise the Empire has a standing army of 108.000 professional soldiers, with more than that in auxiliary forces, yes?
And that's the _standing_ army. More than twice that number can be levied and trained in a mere year.
I'm also gonna add that the Empire is stated to have better armies overall and the dominant reason they lost was because the Aldmeri Dominion was literally cheating by using the Orb of Vaermina to track their movements. Then the Empire took that away but were weakened too much, the Altmer literally won only in a battle of attrition and cheating, if none of that happened, I'm pretty sure the empire would have one and none of this would have happened. The empire is regaining their strength, that's why the Dominion is so sure there will be a second Great War
@@GoblinLord you can't cheat in war.
@@evan9180 I mean, technically you can, anything that would be considered an unfair advantage, plus it's also easy to consider it cheating since they were using a daedric artifact despite them so highly praising the Aedra. Also, if someone brings up "All is fair in love and war" I'm gonna shoot that down now with "Genova Convention"
Still wished there was a “screw both your factions” faction so that we could trow our hat in
There is, its called the Thalmor... it's the wrong choice though
It would be really fun if we could become leader of few schools / groups and then have quest like "True kings arival" where we must collect resources and army and then destroy both parties or few of our choice .
I would use mages + assasins and theefs to simply kill all Thalmor and then help Empire but leave few cities to myself as.... Payment .
Yes, but then there would be the question of which side wins?
@@Sullyvar well.... I would love if we had four options + DLC for other regions .
First is Empire , second is Ulfrik , next is Talmor and last is our own where we gather all guilds under control of our MC and go on war against the world for becoming the overlord !
@@veveronshade3409 I swear elder scrolls fans are the most autistic people. Yeah just make a dlc including other regions like its nothing. Hey why don't they just make elder scrolls a virtual reality simulator so you can just live it!
I only fought for the Imperials as i'd figured that the Empire remaining united with Skyrim and such would fare better at counterattacking the Thalmor later on.
Problem is that the Empire couldn't defeat the Thalmor in the previous war when they had Hammerfell and a strong Skyrim on their side, so I don't think they would have a better chance now. Also the Mede Empire is not much better than the Thalmor, it makes (and breaks) promises too easily as evidenced by the handling of the Markath Incident.
Regardless of which you think is better suited, and I've made characters that look at it both ways, the fact that this is such a nuanced decision that people could see either way on is absolutely ingenious and something you don't see much of anymore.
*Talks for almost 4 minutes*
“Hey guys it’s Dru here, and welcome back”
imagine how tired our characters are since hardly anyone sleeps we just wait
extreme endurance
Am I the only one renting a room in a tavern? Damn...
I've always thought that ulfric is a more charismatic figure, that and as an Irishman I have a disdain for foreign government.
Same, I hate the empire because it reminds me of USA, always bullying other nations into doing what the US deems worthy.
As an Irish man you shouldn’t choose the stormcloaks because they killed the natives of Skyrims reach the forsworn who are based off of the Irish druids
General tullius just isn't a very endearing character
Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak reminds me of Earl Hugh O'Neill and the Nine Years War
When people say the stormcloaks can’t win I always say it depends on who the Dragonborn sides with my characters basically a god himself
I assume like Neravine he’d just disappear
Hermaus Mora has entered the chat
General Tullius is pretty capable he would most likely win if there was no intervention but it would probably be hard fought victory paid too dearly
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." M'aiq the Barbarian
The nords invading Skyrim “what killed the falmer? The ice age!”
Jarl Elisif: *If we could get nords to SWEETROLL too the polls we can win the moot election*
Wauw😂
Dovahkiin: *pointing at Elisif* *John Mulaney voice* THAT'S MY WIFE
Pokemon Go to the polls OOOF.
What does that makes Tullius? The Bernie Sanders of Skyrim? Oh i can see it already, Legate Rikke is the AOC lol
@@Nathan-mf2yz President Jarl Donrik Trumpcloak
Skyrim belongs to the Nords.
It doesn't matter which side you pick the dragonborn will eventually lead whoever wins to victory against the thalmor oppressors.
Nah
Well, this is just a hypothesis. It's possible but not guaranteed. We will see in the next game.
Nobody:
Stormcloaks: _"Fjörk"_
fuck I'm crying...!
I love u
they only say that when they stub their big toe
What? Out of the loop here
I must be kinda loopy, this hit me way harder then it should.
I joined the storm cloaks on accident, then ulfric said “we’re going to march on white run” I was sitting there like ‘BUT WAIT I LIVE THERE’ yeaaaaaaaaaaa for some reason murdering all of the invading stormcloaks on your side as a werewolf isn’t seen as treason by ulfirc stromcloak
"Joined the storcmcloak by accident" why is this so funny.
I mean, imagine you got captured by the Imperials, and when they ask whether you were forced to join the stormcloak or if you joined by your own accord, you answer "I don't know I was minding my own things then I accidentally joined the stormcloak!"
@@rogehmarbi Not as funny but I accidentally joined the vampires because I thought I had to help out Serana or something, forgot I had turned into a vampire and was confused about why I couldn't do things during the day, then realised "wait, why have I only been helping the vampires?"
@@rogehmarbi I also didn't realise health potions existed until the 1st Alduin fight on the throat of the world
lol.... wait... the same thing is about to happen to me.... I'm a werewolf living in whiterun about to side with the stormcloaks...
@@xXx_Baba-Smoker_xXx Same, the worst part is this is like my 6th playthrough, i like the Empire better, buti just helped someone and then someone told me: hey! Thank you for helping the stormcloaks and i was like 👁️👄👁️ who me?!
Since the Dragonborn is always a foreigner, even as a Nord, I tend to imagine the Dragonborn is likely to be canonized as a Nord. I think it's likely they had their origins in Bruma, or thereabouts. For this character, I think the only answer to the civil war question is one of loyalty and pragmatism. Given the Dragonborn's likely origins in the Northern part of Cyrodiil, they're likely not to be completely cut off from their Nordic origins. However, there is probably some loyalty to the Cyrodiilic Empire pulling at this character as well. I think this would tip the Dragonborn's loyalties slightly to the Empire.
I imagine the Dragonborn is likely to deal with the dragon crisis as it takes precedent over Skyrim's civil war. So after this, the Dragonborn would have forged quite a relationship with the people of Whiterun and Jarl Balgruuf. Given that Balgruuf eventually sides with the empire, I think this is another point in favor of siding with the Empire from a character perspective.
Finally, there's the fact that the Aldmeri Dominion consider an independent Skyrim to be in their interest, as dividing the kingdoms of men will likely make them easier to conquer individually. This seems likely. Once the world ending threats are dealt with, the Aldmeri are the most pressing threat. I believe the Empire's strategy is to bide their time and gather strength until they can renew the war against the Aldmeri Dominion again. Once the Dominion is defeated, the possibility of an independent Skyrim can be discussed. But the kingdoms of men need to be able to present a united front in the meantime.
Thus, I believe siding with the Empire to be the best choice for a Dragonborn more or less following the story laid out to us. While not ideal, this choice can be justified from both a character and pragmatic perspective as being best for the Dragonborn given their relationships to other characters and for Tamriel as a whole.
"I tend to imagine the Dragonborn is likely to be canonized as a Nord" I hope not. I never liked the idea that the poster char. is the actual char. in game for all games in the series.
@@marcoboscarol2420The last dragonborn is literally a nord
Canonically for most people, the very start of Skyrim has the Empire acknowledging that you weren’t on their execution list, but were totally fine with killing you anyways despite no obligation to do so.
I didn’t much care for that, but dialogue later alludes to the Empire gearing up to fight the Thalmor again, and honestly I’m not sure the Thalmor would survive another massive, open warfare/conflict with The Empire as both sides were pretty much torn to shreds.
Imperial victory means I technically have a higher chance to exterminate Thalmor punks. It’s not because they’re elves, it’s because they’re hyper pretentious super zealots.
In the face of Aldmeri oppression, “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”
Not united as an empire, but as free peoples willing to stand with the empire.
@@insaincaldo
An Empire of two provinces isn't much of an Empire tbh
@@zachdelozier2133 True that, they should probably have realized that before Skyrim's events and just declared themselves a country, or state instead of holding on to the notion that they are still a standing empire.
@@insaincaldo HERE'S AN IDEA! Kill the Thalmor THEN secede.
Now that I have time to comment, I believe that a possible alliance between the Yokudans(Redguards) and Nords might be a possibility. Also a very scary alliance
I always think if the Stormcloaks won, they would form a new Empire with the Yokudans, such as a second Nordic Empire ans claim High Rock
The Nords are too xenophobic and isolationist to do something intelligent like that.
@@unslaadkrosis3489 but pacts were made before, the ebonheart pact is a example of it.
The thalmor in already rooted in the empire killing it from the inside, just remenber the emperor dies by the end of the dark brotherhood questline, this will weaken the empire futhermore...
It's really likely. They may be a bunch of barbarians but they aren't that stupid and the nords and redguards have much in common now
The Redguards were saved by the Empire during the Great War and had their indipendeance recognized by the Empire keeping good relationships, they're not close to the Stormcloaks at all.
“Water is like liquid elevator music.”
-Bilbo Baggins
Yes.
Very nice breakdown
I feel a bit conflicted, I'll admit the very first time I played I sided with the stormcloaks cause 1. The empire was trying to kill me and 2. I felt for their cause to retain Talos as a god. But, after completing the civil war as a stormcloak, esp since I chose dunmer as my first character I felt....icky. tbh it was Jarl Balgruuf and the siege of whiterun that changed my mind. I respected Balgruuf and when I learned I had to depose him I was shocked. I do not discount Ulfric's military prowess I just wish that we could have joined forces, spurn the thalmor and let Skyrim be independent. Tho I really didn't like the racism against the Dunmer and the beast-kind which I typically play. Kinda sucks when you literally kill the world eater and some bastard calls you a rug
Lol, that ending was funny. I've got no Idea what character to play. Any suggestions?
I really don't get why people dislike the racism so much in a video game world in which races are real and so distinct that they literally have different skills and attributes ect ect. For example Khajit, my favorite race couldn't even wear shoes in Morrowind. To say racism is wrong in the world of the elder scrolls is ridiculous to me.
The Empire should just allow Skyrim to secede so that both do not weaken the power of human kind.
@@jasonhymes3382 if that is so, who are the high elves to act so to the kajjit, both are nearly destroyed by the sloads, and attacked by maromar.
Getting offended as a cat-man when a man-man buffoon calls you a rug. I'll hazard a guess that buffoon wasn't one of your new allies, was it?
: ' )
I do think that the racism makes sense in the elder scrolls but is it that hard to make someone not call you a rug after you save their life and the lives of their loved ones
even though the empire tried to kill you hadvar makes me join the empire everytime since he is a really cool dude who helps you out
he's also a family man which is a plus
Hadvar really cares about Skyrim, her people, and the well-being of ALL the citizens of the empire. He's just stuck doing the brutal jobs soldiers often have to do.
It's not even the empire who tries to kill you. Just a corrupt imperial captain.
So is ralof man
@@patheticbadger3478 Not even corrupt - impatient. When you read between the lines, it's clear that the Imperials are rushing to get Ulfric and his supporters dead in a hurry before the Thalmor can pull some bullshit and spring them. Tullius probably told the captain "Crap, it's the Thalmor...just get them all executed, quickly. I'll hold the Thalmor off."
The gods in Skyrim changed just like they are adapting to what's happening throughout the galaxy and universe of the elder scrolls they have changed basically 4 eras in front of all their creations in their faces and might be giving more to nirn then any other. Is amazing video thanks for the video.
I couldn't side with the empire. I'm a Jedi at heart.
BALGRUUF FOR HIGH KING OF SKYRIM!!!
Why? he's a terrible Jarl, he'd be a horrible King
He's swag too swag to be the king
Eh Balgruuf isn't good at keeping his own kids in line
The ballin balgruuf!!
Idk hate me judge me but I still think that Elisif should be High Queen. don’t @ me
I wish Bethesda gave us a third opinion were the Dovkin can take the book he/she can find in the Thalmor embassy that says, "if Ulfric wins we will betray the empire" and bring it to both General Tullus and Ulfric. This would open up a third ending to the civil war were the both sides team up with the Dovkin and kick the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Then the Dovkin would be the high king.
Edit: thanks for the likes everybody!
That would have been cool, however, I do believe a Dragonsoul-consuming Dragonborn who essentially has conquered an entire realm (destroyed the various bandit bands, ended a vampire dynasty, slain another Dragonborn who by all rights (lore wise) simply got too greedy and overconfident to let a less experienced and less knowledgable Dragonborn destroy him, KILLED THE DRAGON GODS MANIFESTATION, and single-handedly determined the outcome of a civil war, not to mention wielding/safekeeping a ton of Daedric and Aedric artifacts) would be far from a good ruler for a few reasons:
1) Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
2) The power vacuum at thier (hopefully) eventuall death would lead to such unimaginable conflicts it makes your mind become awestruck.
3) With such power you would likely end up ascending to either godhood or carving out a piece of oblivion eventually, leading to yet further conflict.
Also, how does that make sense? It would drive both factions to fight even more, as the Empire doesn't want Ulfric to win so the Thalmor doesn't turn against them, thus they can deal with them later in secret, and the Stormcloaks want to win so the Empire gets even weaker when the Thalmor turn against them.
@@SwedetasticGames or maybe just have the player pick who rules.
@@TechnoBacon55 I get where your coming from but I think there's two simple answers to what you said. First the player should require to a extremely high speech skill to persuade them both to join forces. Two. Why keep a pointless war going when you could join forces and increase both sides chances to defeat the Thalmor
Jonathan Borg Yeah like the death of Alexander the Great. The Dragonborn would need an equally powerful heir to keep stability
This is the easiest way to choose and understand, If you like a strict but fair army, Choose the imperials, If you see that the stormcloaks are right and want to be with Ralof, Choose the stormcloaks, It honestly just depends on how you look at it, And which side you agree with.
It's not that easy, I agree with both 😭
@Mmmmmmmm Forgot about this comment lmao, found a few things out about the storm cloaks that isn't great..
If they win everyone becomes depressed and they are incredibly racist 😅
Not exactly a great ending imo
Tullius: Bro can you stop so we can deal with the thalmor they’re gonna kill us all
Ulfric: *N o*
Ulfric: Bro, can you leave, so we can all focus on the Thalmor? They're going to kill us all.
Tullius. N o
@@DarkAdonisVyers it’s the other way around lol. Ulfric has tunnel vision so he couldn’t give two shits about the thalmor, but tullius is actively trying to stop them while ulfric is being a lil bitch
@@v1ncebuthesjesus135 "active". LOL. No, the Stormcloaks were certainly more "active" in Markarth than the Legion. czcams.com/video/-k6oTgCEcwg/video.html
@@DarkAdonisVyers that’s deleted content, and isn’t actually canon.
@@v1ncebuthesjesus135 Not quite. In-game, it still happens. You just don't see it, given that you can find Ondolemar's coffin in Markarth's Hall of the Dead after the battle.
11:50 So we just gonna ignore the Stormcloak with a damn arrow sticking out his beard?
Common illlness.
Its just the wind
Oh, that's Halnard Arrow-Beard, don't mind him
16:25 theres an arrow in ur butt