60 FPS video? Don't double the shutter speed.
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- čas přidán 2. 03. 2024
- Many sleepless nights and a lot of scientific science led me to the mathematical conclusion that the shutterspeed should remain around 1/50 even if you're recording in 60 fps, if you're intending to export in 60 fps.
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Please note: If you’re recording in 60 fps, don’t go lower than 1/60. Some people are experiencing that the shutter is draging over multiple frames. So basically don’t use a lower shutterspeed than 1/frame rate.
I haven’t tested this myself but might do a video but I really need to stop making videos about shutterspeed for a while now 😅
0:51 bro just grew a moustache in 1/60th of a frame and noones going to say anything?
For everyone saying he is wrong or does not make any sense. He makes perfect sense.
Peter Jackson recognized this years ago while filming the Hobbit in 48fps. He opted for a 270 degree shutter angle (1/64 shutter speed) to achieve a more cinematic motion.
The 180 degree rule was a general rule of thumb for earlier filmmaking due to tech/lighting constraints and complimented the 24fps limitation.
Peter Jackson did that because he had to deliver a 3D version and a 2D version of the Hobbit.
@@bigrobotnewstoday1436 WRONG. That may be a factor for choosing the FRAMERATE. But I’m talking about the SHUTTER ANGLE/SPEED (the topic of the video). The shutter remains the same in 2-D and 3-D versions.
@@quintomedia Wrong you brought up Peter Jackson. In a interview he was talking about finding a frame rate that would be a good balance between 3D and 2D.
You proved my point.
The Hobbit in 48fps is an abomination!! It had a very cheap video look to it!! 270degrees or not. It didnot help, only when I saw it in 23.976 fps was it cinematic again.
I for some reason hate the 60fps look. It makes things look fake for some reason
I get what you mean, I think some call it the soap opera effect or if that is something else but yeah it’s not for everyone and not for every type of video.
Great video, short and sweet and makes you think. I like the encouragement to try things out because that's really important.
One can also use double the double shutter. Say you shoot at 60 fps. Normally kt should be 120.. you can double that to 240 shutter. And it will make you slowmo smoother. A way to control the exposure too in good light.
It makes it sharper but less motion blur, To be honest i do prefer slow motion without blur most of the time.
If you’re intending to slow 60 fps down to 24/30 fps timeline it can be nice with a higher shutterspeed. But if I’m recording in 60 fps to play it at 1x speed I like to be around 1/60 or 1/80 for a more natural motion blur.
@@CarlBergsdorf why the heck would you ent to do that actually? Just shoot it at 24 or 30 fps...
@@ekphotography he said why at the beginning of the video -- 60fps content is getting more popular on social media. If you're making content for those platforms, and you'd like to be involved with those trends, knowing how to shoot in 60fps for 1x is important
@@ekphotography The reason I want to shoot and upload in 60fps rather than 24fps or 30fps is that if I am doing panning motions, then I get very noticeable jitter. In my context, it takes away the focus I want the viewer to have on the subject. By shooting at 60fps, the jitter is much less noticeable, but now the moving subject looks less natural when I stick to the 60fps 1/120 rule you hear everywhere. So, I shoot at 1/60, keeping my desired motion blur and at the same time benefiting from more light because I am shooting dancers in low light. If I want to, I can also export the video at 30fps if I need to reduce the file size or if people play the video at 30fps because CZcams reduces it to 30fps. I don’t care if it looks as if it were recorded with 30fps and 1/60 shutter with the disadvantage that panning looks less smooth, but the advantage that the file size is smaller. I think that’s how it works, but I am not 100% sure; maybe I missed something.
I was sure by the end of this video you were going to have long hair🤣
Great video. Very enlightening information. This has inspired me to spend the afternoon playing fps and shutter speeds.
Lol playing the long game 😂 awesome to hear, I think it’s easy to get stuck to certain rules when we first start learning about this stuff and just assume that’s always right but we can do whatever we want that we like so keep experimenting with stuff 👍 Thank you for watching!
i'm not sure about right or wrong, though this has opened avenues for me. 60fps video gives more information to work with & while looking good is such a great combo.
Thank you for watching! I don’t know what or if there’s anything right or wrong when it comes to video but I wanted to make this to ”challenge” the idea/missconception that the shutterspeed _always_ need to be 2x the frame rate. I still like 24p and will likely continue to use that in most my videos but sometimes one might want to use 60p for whatever reason and still keep that realistic look. Have a nice day!
50/60fps after years of video I think just looks better on CZcams, particularly on pans. It also works better with many in camera stabilisation.
Totally agree- Ignore 180 shutter rule as well, pointless with modern cameras for CZcams unless you are making some cinematic ‘masterpiece’
When you record 60 fps with 1/50, you will be able to get only 50 frames, but they will be recorded as 60 fps, ie 10 will be duplicated to fill the number. I'm not sure it will look good.
But why not shoot 60fps with 1/60, that would give you the necessary motion blur (that you want) ?
I think you're right; it's definitely better to record 60fps at 1/60.
super helpful for a beginner like me. didnt even know i needed to know about this
Awesome it could be of use to you 👍 It has come to my attention that you shouldn’t go lower that 1/frame rate so if you’re recording in 60 fps, don’t go lower than 1/60, etc. Thank you for watching 🙏
After reading and watching some videos about this subject, I turned my camera to shoot 50fps at 80 shutter. Still not shot a lot like this, but either I was shooting 25fps/50 or 50fps/100. If I deliberately want to edit a slow motion, I go for (at least) 50fps with shutter speed> 100. But quite often my need for slowmo is more to stabilise a clip. So, for me, a permanent 50 fps gives me the option to slow the footage and 80 fps is a good compromise to keep a good motion blur in normal or slow speed.
Good idea! Sounds like a really smart compromise without offering too much on either end. I’m going to give this a go also next time I don’t know for sure if it’s going to be slow motion or regular speed. Thank you for the tip
I too have discovered this..
if you are writing 60pfs but only able to capture 50 .... You are basically capturing 48FPS out of 60. This would likely look good if slowed down by 50% or kept at 100%, but it wouldn't look good at 40% or 80%.
Yeah if slowed down one should likely no go below 24 fps unless going for a choppy old timey effect or something 😄
Probably you are right. We all should be critical about all these old rules.
To give you an example: I was told not to shoot at NTSC- frame rates in my country, which ist Switzerland = PAL = 25/50/100 FPS to avoid flickering with artificial light sources. But I made a test yesterday: I shot different lamps with 30 FPS at 1/60 sec., and there was no flickering at all. If there would be one I would reduce the shutter speed to 1/50 sec. and I am sure any flickering would disappear.
But next I will try 60 FPS at 1/60 and 1/50 sec. instead of 1/120 sec. to compare the results.
Good for you trying things out, worst thing is that its true but better find out for yourself instead of anyone telling on 🤌
DONT do 60fps at 1/50, at that point its just 30fps duplicated to 60. Use 1/60, if lights are flickering then 1/100 or 50fps 1/50
Flicker may depend on the lights frequency...a lot of lights are LED now....in the past you had tungsten, florescent, ect
Also if you film a tv screen you can see a weirdness with different shutterspeeds or frame rates.
If you are ever doing filming for broadcast or cinema....that's when PAL matters because tv channels have to adhere to PAL or NTSC. so you have to....otherwise you will fail their QC on delivery. Really bad....and it is not easy almost impossible to fix footage shot in the wrong frame rate.
Great video. I learned a lot.
I really wanted to see 1.000 fps slowed down to 60fps.
I love this video I look forward to see more content like this!
Experimentation is ART!
Screw all the technical discussions in the comments, this video was just a test if we notice that his beard grows after every cut lmfao
I need to learn way more about this topic. I want to get better at filming wildlife.
I must completely agree with you,
It makes sense but my question is why would one want to increase the fps if it isn't for slowing down??
And in the case of slowing down you would also have to increase your shutter speed...
Do you think there might be a tiny difference in blur between 30fps 180degrees and 60fps 360degrees
@@panaredman None
What I discovered is my Lumix S5II produces some weird jittery ghosting (no clue how to call it sorry 😅) with motion, especially global pan. I tried to fix it through the motion blur factor, but to no avail. Made many many tests to figure out what it could be, researched, read, & in the end, after some comparisons with cinema cameras (starting with the BMPC6K), there is a difference with those, at same settings (I assumed).
Some ppl talked about tge way the censor reads ou the data, frame by frame (spatial) VS by sequences = grps of frames (temporal). Lumix = temporal, BM = spatial. That was a possible cue.
But in the end, what affects the most this factor. That I could actually manage, was...
The framerate. The higher, the smoother any motions, even if read at normal speed.
I didn't try yet to downscale the framerate of footage, or use effects such as optical flow on that. But it gave me a solid reason to REC at 60p when I wouldn't have done it otherwise.
I got to the same conclusion as yours for shutter speed, & I put the shutter angle to 358° when shooting 60p (=~1/60sec expo), & 120p (=~1/120 sec), to get best motion blur + max expo => lower ISO compared to the meaningless 180° rule at different framerates than cinema (24).
Basically it's a matter of shutter speed only, which made a confirmation bias at 24fps to fall on 180°, since we're actually looking for the ~ 1/50 SSpeed (not an absolute, nor adapted to every situation or specidic look, indeed).
amazing, thank you!
Thank you for watching! 🙏
I'm just getting into manual mode and totally agree with the 1/50 shutter at 60fps.
I'm learning so I'm trying to follow the rule of 180 degree shutter but prefer 1/50 at 60fps.
This video was great to show me that I'm not going crazy, thanks for the help.
But then what is the point of 60fps if its only really 50. The file is gonna be larger with the same amount of real frames as 50fps.
@@theepaxio oh I didn’t realise I wouldn’t be able to slow it down
Like I said I’m just starting out and your comment might’ve saved me a real headache
Thanks
I shoot in 60fps 1/100 most of the time. Or 30fps 1/50. Mostly because here in central europe electricity runs at 50Hz, so when shooting indoors with artificial light, shooting at 1/60 or 1/80 is simply not possible without an unreasonable amount of flickering and rolling shutter artiffacts. It also gives me the most flexibility. I can either use the 60fps footage in a 30fps timeline by dropping every other frame without any major issues, or use that same footage played back at half speed for some slow motion. It's not the prettiest solution, since mixing this 60fps 1/100 footage either as slowmo or real time will have different amounts of motion blur. But if i'm just out and about shooting for myself, i'd rather have the flexibility in post. Naturally when doing work for a client i'd first have to check in if that approach is appropriate for them.
Thank you so much
Glad to be of help 😃 Thanks for watching!
Not sure I get your point but get your point....LOL I shoot 60p @ 1/125th because it looks smoother when slowed down and actually I do NOT want motion blur. Not to mention a grab still images off my videos and 1/125th is the minimum to get sharper/frozen images enough to use as stills. . You can always "Crank" the shutter higher but going below makes no sense at all IMHO if you are shooting 60p.
It does make sense
If you want to grab a still, 1/125 is definitely the right choice; however, if you want natural motion blur I'd argue that 1/60 is the better shutter speed when filming 60fps.
@@mrlightwriter Not just that but if you want to slow it down which is usually why someone would shoot 60p to begin with, You will also need 1/125th, otherwise you will get weird edges or it will NOT look right if you shoot at 1/60th.
@@ekphotography I agree with your reasoning. However, there is one reason to film at 60fps that affects hundreds of million of people: when filming with a smartphone.
Without the ability to change the shutter speed (and using ND filters is out of the question to the vast majority), the only way to mitigate the staccato motion at 30 fps is to film at 60fps, providing a much smoother experience. This even works with very high shutter speeds - 1/500 and above - although it's not perfect, of course.
My A6400 does not even have 60P in 4K. 😂.
@@850Tech True but the 4K 24/25/30p is really sharp and nice and good autofocus so still a nice camera 👍
@@CarlBergsdorf you are correct mate it's super sharp with sigma primes . I am using Da Vinci Resolve Retime controls to cheat slow motion 😃
Gerald Undone already answered this question 3 years ago. I recommend checking out his experiments.
I've been running a video business for over a decade now. My two cents are, there are rules for a reason. When you're shooting and delivering for a client, they want a certain look and it is almost the "Hollywood Cinematic - 24fps with 180 shutter or "TV commercial" 30fps with a 180 shutter
If you're doing your own art or have extensive creative freedom, I have experimented with about every combo of shutter speed/ang;e and frame rate you can imagine. I still end up back at the same place, 24fps with a 180 shutter. In projects, especially high intensity scenes, it is so damn fun to shoot slow shutter 24fps such as 1/8, 1/10, 1/15. This creates a massive amount of motion drag with a very strange staccato yet smooth feeling. However, most cameras cannot do this and you can't use it for a whole video, because it becomes unwatchable after about 5 continuous seconds
Video like anything is art, experiment and do whatever it is you like. All art has established principles to achieve looks, styles and feelings. Shutter speed is absolutely one of those rules. To the people mentioning films like The Hobbit and other niche films that used different FPS and angles. There is a reason why you can only name a few films that have done this, it just doesn't look that good
That being said, as I stated earlier. Video is art, do whatever it is your heart desires. If you're wanting to get better and make impactful, incredible and videos you will be proud of, my advice would be: Focus on writing, storytelling and lighting. Followed shortly with set design, clothing and models
Hey I’ve got that same tri force tattoo! 🔥
Got an S1H and i can go at 1/8000 if i want and it doesn't change anything. This " RULES " apply to crappy cameras
Hi! Sorry to go out of topic but :
How's the sharpness and overall quality of your video so high?!! What is happening here is literally almost no compression from youtube being applied!
Hi! No problem at all, I’m happy to share. In camera I have Log Shooting turned On so no PP. I’ll have to check my export settings in Davinci once I get home so let me get back to you on that.
@@CarlBergsdorf Absolutely!! Thanks for replying man
@@everInfinity Alright so I think it's either the following I usually use or if I just used the CZcams 2160p preset for this video. Either way give it a try and see if it works for you :)
Custom Export
Format: MP4
Codec: H.265
Encoder: Auto
Network Optimization: Yeh
Resoultion: (Same as your timeline) 3840x2160 or such
Frame rate: (Same as TL)
Quality restrict to 30000 kb/s
Encoding Profile: Main
Key Frames: Every 25 frames
Frame Reordering: Nah
Rate Control: Variable Bitrate
Preset: Medium
Tuning: High Quality
Two Pass: Disable
Lookahead: 16 frames
Disable adaptive I-frame at scene cuts: Nah
Enable adaptibe B-frame: Yeah
AQ Strength: 8
Enable non-reference P-frame: No
Enable weighted prediction: Hell nah
I didn't touch anyting under advanced settings or Subtitle in this preset.
Hope this helps my dude 🙏
@@CarlBergsdorf I'm shocked this is only exported at 30kbps bitrate because it looks insanely sharp. Maybe your lens + aperture + lighting combo is just yielding very clear image quality. Thanks for the update on rendering settings though!
Trick with mustache length distracts a lot)
Just so you know, you can't have 60fps and shutter speed 1/50. The maximum you can go is 1/60. Going longer shutter speed than that on my Canon R8, it actually drops internally to 30fps, it just repeats the same frame twice. So at that point you might as well drop from 60p to 30p.
In short, whatever you do don't try to go above 360 degrees of shutter as it is physically impossible. Your camera will make some compromise for you like repeating frames, to retain 60p, but you dont want that.
Last thing I will say is that in fact 1/50 vs 1/60 motion blur is preety much identical. You can search for videos on that.
I agree that the difference between 1/60 and 1/50 is pretty much none but my main point is that even if you shoot 60p, you should try to stay around 1/50 (or 1/60) to get as close as possible to the natural motion blur. A lot of people think the ss should always be double the frame rate but thats not true.
@@CarlBergsdorf Agreed. I think the 180 rule came about when it was important to fill out the gaps in motion with blur. But if you follow it with higher fps you get almost no blur which is what's so unnatural to many people.
Just never shoot at a shutter speed that is 1/below the framerate.
@@SantiagoMonroy5 Yeah I agree, I’m sorry if I said that in the video but you are right since that will most likely cause the shutter to drag over multiple frames right? So 50 fps, as low as 1/50s and 60fps 1/60s.
@@CarlBergsdorf Yup, thats correct
So, I don’t get it. If you are filming at 60 fps, and shutter speed is 1/50 of a second your shutterspeed is not following 0,0034 sekonds pr frame to slow. Light flikering is related to Hertz. Using GoPro for a couple of years I always used NTCS but changed the Hz from 50-60 or 60-50 depending on the country power/light source. Same with shutter speed, just change it so it matches the Hertz rate from the light source. 1/50 or 1/60th of a second
This video is mainly about motion blur but you’re totally right about NTSC and PAL. If there are light sources that can cause flicker it’s best to set the region to the correct one (NTSC or PAL) and a shutterspeed that does not cause the light to flicker in the recording.
If you like 60fps content, then you do you bo.
But this feels like people are mislead.
I don’t understand why people think this is a good idea. It makes no sense to compare it to our eyes since they don’t see in 60 or 120 or 1000fps. Our eyes sees motion and for video content 24/25/30 fps with around 1/50-ish in shutter speed is what captures closest to how that motion “feels” in our world.
People who are not technical in the field understands this too as film like the Hobbit was often described as “video game like”. That should be your first clue that the motion people felt when looking at this content did not match how people perceived their normal day.
Then there are a sea of technical reasons why you should not film in 60fps. You just doubled your need for storage for basically no reason, your risk frame skipping because of screen frequencies may differ, especially for TV content and a lot of cameras will reduce the quality per frame to keep data rates good, so now you also end up with lower quality frames with worse bit rate.
All in all I hope people don’t bite on to this as it again feels like it’s missing understanding why things are the way they are. ✌🏻
Love you scandinavian a-c-cent
What camera do you use here?
Sony a6700 and I believe the lens was mostly the Viltrox 23mm f/1,4 if that’s interesting.
@@CarlBergsdorfVideo looks great, i want to shoot 4K 60fps without compromising.
shitter speed? *toilet scene
Can always add motion blur in post 😝
Wow so much wrong info here. Don’t know even where to start. I’m simple terms when using shutter speed for over cranking more is better. In fact you should be over the 180 of possible because it helps keeping your video sharp when slowed down to 24fps. If you don’t have enough shutter when slowed down then you’ll lost end up with blurred frames because of motion blur and it’s not the same as natural motion blur if playing back at real speed it ends up blurry in a bad way
@@magji2000 did you even watch the video? This is about NOT slowing down 60 fps to 24 but for those who wants to record in 60 fps and export in 60 fps.
Took two watches but I finally get the point of the video. He is just saying the 180 rule is a generalisation for natural looking blur and it doesn’t directly apply to higher frame rates such at 60FPS
Your blur you get is dependent on your shutter speed and doubling 60fps footage to get a 1/120 shutter speed is really fast with minimal blur. Unless you intend to slow it down (in which case it is okay to shoot at that speed) it is probably better to slow down your shutter more closer to the 1/50th which is more “natural” hence the suggestion of 1/80th.
Makes so much sense! Thanks for this!
60fps can be great for fast passed sports but everything else looks like shit. like this video for example
60FPS is always great. 24FPS looks like shit.
I disagree
180 degree rule is not about shutter angle
I know it’s also a rule about the cameras position and not crossing ”an invisble line” or something but it’s also a thing when it comes to shutterspeed.
Quote from PolarPros website: ”The 180-degree rule is a standard in the film industry, and it explains the relationship between shutter speed and frame rate when recording motion in video. To mimic motion the same way the human eye experiences it in real life, the 180-degree rule states that shutter speed should be set to double your frame rate.”
@@CarlBergsdorf they are also wrong. It's kina a "myth" that it's about shutter angle. There was never such a rule in the "cinematographers handbook" it's just some recent thing that people started calling it the 180 rule, even though that's something completely else
edit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180-degree_rule
@@maxmeyer6395 Alright, I'll take your word for me. Thank you for letting me know! I'll promise to stop spreading misinformation from now on 🙏
@@CarlBergsdorf all good, happens. Just wanted to let you know.
edit: just a side note: you may wanna edit the title to "180 degree shutter angle rule" as to not cause confusion with said "180 degree rule"
You could say that their are 2 180 degree rules....I don't know if that makes a total of 360 degrees lol....one Is about filming for consistency of screen direction (walter murchs 2d plane)
The other is the idea of proportionality of motion blur to shutterspeed
I'm sorry, but this is not correct and would be misleading to creatives who are looking to learn.
Could you specify what’s not correct with the video?
@@CarlBergsdorf Just about everything you said.
He is correct. If you always use the 180 degree rule without understanding historical origins you are just blindly following CZcamsr dogma
@@quintomedia your reply is literally that dogma. In a nutshell, the "rules" around frame rate are simply used to resemble the motion blur of the human eye. People don't think that shutter speed should always be twice the frame rate unless that is their goal. The choice is "motion blur or no motion blur" and the people's choice is to like it or not. Granted, he did mention all of that in the video, but none of this is exclusive to CZcams. I never said that anyone should always use the 180° rule, but definitely should've elaborated on why I said the explanation in the video is incorrect. Understanding shutter speed, shutter angles, frame rates, exposure time, etc. is a tool not a rule. I get it, we're on CZcams so if I don't specify that I do this professionally then I can't expect you to know. I guess what I'm getting at is that if the information isn't given to these people to elevate how they apply their passion for video, then it's wrong. Wanting to use 60fps doesn't mean that it should be palatable for everyone. Especially if the goal is for people to watch, like, and subscribe in larger numbers. Unless it's just my preference, but what I can see here visually at 60fps just isn't it. I've tried going through a whole discussion with my family about something like this to see what can be appealing to try when I started working in film and commercial production because CZcams was pushing 60fps content quite a bit. What I can say is that I choose settings aiming at a specific look to edit, not always specific to 23.976 fps. This isn't an argument either. As CZcams goes my comment will either be seen as rambling, arguing, or taken for exactly what it is.
@@FermionBecProductions so what is your point? Could you elaborate on your point instead of just "rambling"? I don't understand what does your family have to do with all this or even the fact you are or aren't a professional? Just explain how you see the concepts of motion blur, shutter angle and their relationship, why and when to use a specific angle and frame rate, why the guy is wrong and what are the consequences of following his advice as oppose of doing it by the book. It's fairly simple, you just have to write it down.
We all know there are situations where the rule could be broken effectively and situations where it's not a good idea to do it. Just explain yourself clearly.
I hate dogmatic statements that begin in don’t and contradict established wisdom and lack humility. Needles to say, I didn’t watch this doubtless nonsense.