Attachment Methods for Van Cabinetry (80/20 T-slot Aluminum)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This video illustrates two different ways to secure 80/20 T-slot aluminum to your van. For more information on our van build please visit ourkaravan.com
Be sure to read our article about working with 80/20. ourkaravan.com...
It provides helpful tips on how to order the product and explains how shipping gets less expensive (per unit) as you add more product to your shopping cart.
Products Used:
80/20 double profile (60"): amzn.to/2CJPIgW
Step bit: amzn.to/2Mzaqod
FR-4 Fiberglass sheet: www.profession...
You want 1/4" thick x 3" wide. I ordered 43" of it because there is a $30 minimum order requirement.
Website: ourkaravan.com
Instagram: / our.karavan
Note: This video contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated. Please know we only promote products we actually use and believe in.
I'm coming really late to the party here Ken, and maybe someone else has already given this tip, but if you would use an annular cutter type bit, instead of the step drill, you wouldn't have to chase those holes with the 5/8 drill afterwards. Most cutters come with a pilot bit, and since you have already drilled where the hex bolt goes through the 80/20, the proper alignment is a snap.
I have been enjoying your build process, and hope to someday start on a build myself. Thank you for the videos. Be well.
Thank you Randy, i appreciate the tip.
You make a good argument for using 80-20 aluminum, It will last, no warping, vibration resistant and sturdy, I like it.
Your honesty and humility is refreshing!
@Misanthropia Shall Fall - I try and remember when making the videos why people are here...to learn. When things don't go to plan the first thing I think about is getting roasted by the armchair commenters, then I remember they aren't the ones I'm making the videos for. Thank you for the comment!
Great idea for t-slot use ! My first time using T- slot was to build a work / desk for hobbies. this is best stuff for shelf's bench etc fantastic stuff !!
It’s great stuff, I plan to keep using it!
That’s beautiful! I just have a length of cedar board bolted to the side of the van via nutserts. I watched this because I’m interested in using 80/20 for cabinetry. This looks SO polished and professional!
@SaintTrinianz - Thank you! Nothing wrong at all with what you did! Most people would use sheetmetal screws. The aluminum has really reduced my frustration factor with building cabinetry.
I'm planing on doing same Aluminium Profile mounting to my Sprinter. Thanks for the thermal Isolation Idea.
Great job. This is an important topic that many do not put much consideration into. Thanks for posting!
Thank you!
Thanks for the update and great timing. I am beginning the 80/20 install next week and this helps me decide on the attachment I’ll be using. I decided to use 30 series after reviewing the options.
@Bahcondor - Which method will you use?
I’ll use your original method but will probably include fiberglass insulating plates since I have lots of material.
Ken, I appreciate all the time you have put into your videos. Top quality van build, I have purchase my sprinter and will use a lot of the techniques you have shown. Hope mine turns out as nice as your van
If you take your time, it will! Thank you for the complements!
Luckily I am not in a hurry.
Another fine example of some great craftsmanship and well thought out plans.
Thank you, I always appreciate your comments!
A great build which looks professional. The 80/20 website has some good resources, one being the extrusion profile deflection calculator that provides a good means to select the right profile for the job. While you can swing of your cabinetry and it remains rock solid, it seems way over built and would serve as a good roll cage for the vehicle :) as I'm sure it's much stronger than the sheet metal it's attached to. T-slot alloy is a great product to work with and provide a pro-finish.
I've been super happy with 80/20, no regrets. While I agree that the 1.5" profiles are more stout than needed, I was unhappy with the fastener strength of the 1" material. I think perhaps the newer metric 30mm series might be a good compromise between the two, although there are less profile and connector options available. Take care and thanks for the comment!
starting my T-Track install this week and this vid helped a LOT!
That's great, good luck with your install!
I will be interested to hear if the fiberglass washers help prevent the thermal bridging. Please keep us posted. Thanks
Will do. I guess there's no denying the fact that it should work. I think one aspect that may be affecting my results is the fact that I have Lizard Skin applied to the van, which cools the sheetmetal (from the hot sun), so I may not be getting as much heat transfer as some would get. ??
I have to stop watching your videos. Makes me want to buy one too! Good work as always, Ken :)
You totally need a van Bob! ;)
As always a great video on how to use t-slot. I had quite the a-ha moment the first time I saw you building cabinetry out of this stuff, easily the best way to do camper van furniture if you want quality and strength and rot resistance. Not to mention low weight. However, I feel you could do better in how you mount stuff. Specifically: pre-bulbed Plusnuts. Drill the holes, but instead of going in behind the beam to add stuff, just put the Plusnut in from the front and secure it with a tool (or a DIY tool solution) and boom, you have a threaded hole into which you can bolt things directly from the outside. The pullout strength per Plusnut is something like 1200 lbs, so six of those in that rail would be absolute overkill and would simply not fail. You could replace the hex bolts with ones that have Allen heads (so you can get the head of the bolt into the rail, and still turn it to bolt it on.) The benefits of this are obvious - you never have to go in and try to fit stuff from behind, so you can use Plusnuts even when there is no access behind the strut/van rib you want to bolt things to. Plus, you can very easily dismantle it from the outside because you have access to the head of the bolt and that's all you need.
Your solution is plenty secure and works fine, but you're making more work for yourself than you have to. :) Plusnuts (as opposed to normal Rivnuts) are the perfect way to bolt anything to sheet metal. Hugely stronger than, for instance, just screwing self-tapping screws in. They also will not create exposed metal where rust can start, since you drill the hole and paint it and only then add the Plusnut. Or, alternatively - the van is full of holes already in those ribs. It's possible to use those for Plusnuts as is. You then have to adapt the holes in the t-slot to fit the existing holes in the van, which is less flexible than picking any old spot, but you don't have to drill.
I used Plusnuts extensively throughout my build but was unable to use them here. Even with boring a larger hole to [barely] fit the head of the bolt in the extrusion, there was absolutely no way a box wrench, socket, or anything else would allow tightening the head of the bolt. The only thing I could do was use the open-end box wrench inside the slot to hold the bolt head in place while tightening from the rear.
@@ourkaravan Yep, but there are bolt styles that aren't hex bolts where you use a wrench. Allen head bolts would let you tighten them freely even though there is no clearance around the bolt head. Again not saying there's anything wrong with this approach, looks darn sturdy, just that I can think of a way to do it with Plusnuts. :)
You're right, an Allen head bolt would have worked. I never tend to have those in the correct size for the application.
Excellent Craftsmanship, but the most important thing you addressed wasn't so much providing a thermal break for your Al rail, but the fact that you've prevented a galvanic reaction between the steel and aluminum both in the body and fastener. If you don't separate the metals, they corrode.
Great point! I am under the understanding that galvanic reaction does not occur unless an electrolyte is present. But either way I'm happy to have the two separated!
Excellent detail, very grateful for the tips, links and clear visuals. I love your work!
Also loved the music at end, such happy sounds, like you must feel at the end of this build!
Please let me know what was playing. I have got to buy this music.
I'll have to check my software editing program. I can't recall the artist or the name of the song at the moment.
@@ourkaravan Sorry for giving you more work, and thank you! This music was too good to pass up.
Thanks for the details.
I've also tried to thermally bridge mine but to minimize the cold not the heat and I'm finding it unnecessary. The air cools it down and heats it up more than the thermal bridge would. It's marginal at best in cold conditions. I'll find out in summer about heat but I don't expect any issues there either. Just my experience from the Canadian Rockies
@tmotten - Thank you for sharing your experience. Metallic objects always feel hotter or colder than something like a fabric, when in reality on a 100 degree day everything in the van is 135 degrees. Thermal isolation isn't going to make a night-and-day difference. That said, when the temperature is being regulated inside, it might make a very small difference. Either way, I thought I'd mention how inconclusive my findings have been in that regard to help others through that thought process.
Using rivet nuts and plastic washers/ spacers accomplished the same thing in 1/4 of the time for pennies per fastener.
How do you screw the bolts in to the channel?
Great method. Love the isolation idea.
Another excellent video. Perfect timing as well. Thanks again!!
Awesome, thank you Don!
With your current installation method shown in the video, you have to tighten the nut from the backside with a nut driver? I guess the hole in the front is small enough to keep the bolt hex head from rotating when you are tightening the nut on the backside.
The head won’t rotate since it’s a carrier age bolt captured in the slot of the 80/20. But yes, this attachment method requires access through the wall panel to tighten. You could always use plusnuts if you don’t have access in your van, it’s just more work.
Thank you for for posting this.
My pleasure!
Hello! Your videos are super helpful as we start our van build. Why not use the factory holes that are already there instead of drilling new ones?
I always do use factory holes when I can. Some aren’t where I need them and others are the wrong size. Thanks for the kind words and good luck!
Thank you for sharing these videos - they are very informative. One question I have is why mount the 80/20 piece to the van and drilling extra holes in the van, vs using an extra piece of 80/20 across the back of the cabinet with angle brackets that allow you to mount to pre-existing holes with cross nuts installed? That is what comes to mind for me, but guessing there was a reason you did it the way you did. Thanks.
I am retaining the factory headliner in my van and there’s about 3/4” to 1” of dead space between the headliner and the wall down low. Had I bolted my cabinets without the 80/20 behind the wall it would have squished the headliner. The route I took allowed me to bolt up through the headliner without distorting it. Also the van wall has about an 8.5 degree taper, so a 90 degree angle bracket would have slanted the cabinet. I hope that helps.
These videos are awesome thank you! Quick question: How are you grounding the 80/20 structures, or bonding them to the chassis, to protect the structures from becoming “live” in the case of a short circuit?
Also interested
The 80/20 is bolted through both the wall of the van as well as the floor using the stock tie downs, so I wouldn’t think there would be any potential difference between the chassis and the framing.
ourkaravan thanks!
@@ourkaravan I thought that as well but others pointed out that 8020 is anodized and unless special caution is taken to break the anodization the 8020 will not be at the same electrical potential as the van frame or even to other pieces in the same cabinet. I verified this myself with a multi-meter and was pretty surprised by what I found.
Hi, great build and video series. I saw your other vid on installing an L-track on the opposite wall for anchor points and wondered why you preferred using the double T-track instead of using an L-Track to attach your cabinet to the wall?
Hi Jean, the two serve different purposes. The L-track is for securing gear to the sidewall of my van, such as my camp table and to hold bike helmets, etc. The double slotted channel is to secure my rear cabinetry to the wall. I hope that makes sense, and thanks for watching!
I'm so excited to learn how this 80/20 stuff works--thank you! I've heard that toe-kicks are pretty important ergonomically for galley cabinets--do you know how you might do a toe-kick with 80/20?
I wouldn't go without toe-kicks at home, but in my opinion it wastes far too much space in a van. In order to accommodate one I'd have to move my fridge up and I'd lose my pull-out table, I'd lose an entire storage drawer and in my water cabinet I'd have to lift the jugs over the kick. Not worth it, in my opinion. That said, you could certainly build one into your 80/20 setup.
@@ourkaravan Thanks for your thoughts! I don't have my exact cabinet configuration yet so I'll see if it presents the same clear tradeoffs as it did in your situation. Hopefully not.
Best of luck! You can do pretty much anything with 80/20
I've not seen the issue of thermal isolation raised in other videos. Can you explain the purpose of using fiberglass and what you are protecting against? Thanks
The steel of the van is very efficient at transferring both and heat and cold. By using fiberglass it helps reduce the amount of heat or cold the aluminum accepts through the van structure. The aluminum still gains and loses heat but not as bad as if it were bolted direct to the sheet metal. I hope that helps.
Great info, Looks like you really know how to make it hard on yourself? Why didn’t you countersink a hex bolt in the center of the rail? They seem beefy enough. Then you don’t have to take the bolts out to slide in carriage bolts or nuts.
Take a look at the cross section of a 3075 profile and the answer will be clear.
@@ourkaravan I see what your saying, I think it would still work. Either way, thanks for the info. I def plan on doing something similar.
I’m always in favor of an easier way. A couple of things to think about. Direct bolting the aluminum to the van wall will cause the aluminum to heat and cool along the van steel. In my case my daughter’s bed is attached to this, hence the reason I wanted it thermally isolated from the van. Also, having attachments in both the top and bottom slot will be stronger than just a centered row of bolts, but your application may not need the extra strength. Anyways, good luck.
This is great! You’re videos help a lot. I’m looking up ways to install a floating bed platform. Do you think this method would work for a bed platform as well?
Properly supported, yes. I built this so if I ever do a high mount bed I have a place to support the middle span.
Ken- enjoy the vids. Did I miss it on your site or is the fabric you used on there? Looks like you went right on the metal too. Is this the case? Where did your source the fabric too?
Hi, fabric is from Perfect Fit in Oregon. On the wooden wall panels I used the 1/8” foam under the fabric but when gluing to the steel of the van I went direct with no foam.
@@ourkaravan Thank you. Looks great.
Enjoyed this, thank you
Hey Ken, your videos are legendary! Just started building my van out and your videos are having a massive impact on my build.
I'm thinking about building my van's bed frame similar to how you've built these cabinets: the plan is to bolt a thin piece of 80/20 to the van frame exactly how you've done here. I'd then have vertical pieces of 80/20 attached with an 80/20 bed frame at the top of them.
Do you think this method of mounting is strong enough for a bed frame?
Hi Seven, thanks for the kind words! I've seen a lot of bed frames held only by two rivnuts (each) at the front and back of the rail. I wouldn't recommend doing that, I think having some support in the middle is best, but the answer is yes, I built this in a way that if I ever require a high-mount bed, I can tap into this framing. (I would do just what you're describing.) On the other side of the van I can utilize the L-track. The framing is particularly strong.
ourkaravan thanks for the response! And good luck with finishing the build, loving your latest vids.
Thanks! I think I'm subconsciously slowing down on the build because I don't want it to end. Haha
Haha that’s awesome. Thankfully these types of projects are never really “finished”
Hi Ken, did I miss the video about "the other method"? Thanks!
Hi Susana, at the end of the video I showed three other ways to make a shelf/floor in a cabinet.
@@ourkaravan Thanks!
Very neat and flexible for future changes kind of solution. Is there a reason why you used hex set screws not cap heads? Might be slightly easier to tighten?
If you watch my L-track install you'll see I used allen bolts into plus nuts in that application. You can certainly do that here as well. If you want something more easily removable, that's the way to go. In this case it's far easier to just detach the whole structure from the wall. Once the cabinet is moved, one screw removes the lower wall panel and I have access to the bolts for the support bar. I can't imagine why I would remove it though.
@@ourkaravan cool. That does make sense. Thank you for the explanation. :)
Just about ready to start working on my cabinetry with 80/20 framing. Thanks for sharing all the details and your thought process. It helps so much. I plan to mount L-track on both sides of the van at the height where you mounted your Two Adjacent Open T-Slot. I would like to hear your thoughts on mounting the 80/20 cabinetry frame to the L-Track instead of on the half t-slot. And if you have any methods and specific fasteners to recommend to attach 80/20 to L-track.
You can use an L track stud fitting and an angle bracket to attach the cabinet frame to the L track. The only downside of the L track is the need to use more expensive, dedicated hardware and there is no infinite adjustment like a strip of 80/20...the mounting interval for L track is about 1 inch. I would consider using a strip of 80/20 1575 or 3075 half profiles in lieu of L track so you can use carriage bolts or tnuts and attach it to your galley framing wherever you want rather than at specific intervals.
@@ourkaravan Thank you, Ken. It makes sense. I will use the t-slot for mounting the cabinets and L-Track for other stuffs
L track is more convenient if you’re clicking things in and out of the track. If mounting cabinets, I’d go 80/20
You didn't use paint or sealant on the naked metal. It will eventually rust with condensation.
I never leave metal untreated. If you're referring to the holes I drilled to mount the rail, they were definitely painted.
Can you provide a materials list?
Hi Ken, thanks for sharing your build process. It has been very helpful as my wife and I build our own van conversion. A question about the size of the 80/20 you choose; I am considering using 20 mm for both base and overhead cabinets, rather than the 1.5 in (~38mm) size that you used. It seems to me that 20 mm should be plenty strong, especially if you factor in the structure strength added by the plywood (bamboo in our case). Any thoughts on using that smaller size?
Hi Eric,
I stopped using the 1" (25.4mm) in my build because I wasn't happy with the fastener strength. I'm not sure what size fasteners the 20mm metric uses but I would imagine it would the same size or even smaller. Here's an article I wrote discussing the issue: ourkaravan.com/8020-extruded-aluminum-van-cabinets/
You may want to look into 30mm and see what size fasteners it uses.
Whatever profile type you decide on, make sure it's available in enough profile types to meet your needs...i.e. the availability of a smooth profile with varying number of slots (so you don't have to stare at slots where you don't want them) and availability of different fastener types. And let us know what you find!
Thanks and take care!
Ken
What do you think about drilling the holes along only one of the tracks, leaving the other track free and clear? I am considering this for the upper cabinet build and I think having only one track for the attachment will be sufficient. Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
I agree with you. I used the double track because I thought this cabinet might support a high-mount bed someday, and wanted the additional strength. I used single row half-profile behind the wall for my upper cabinetry and it's rock solid. Using a double row and leaving a row empty of attachments would make it easy to add things or make changes down the road.
What size bots are you sending through the T-Slot to the van?
To physically bolt the 80/20 to the steel of the van? 5/16”
Could other insulation material be used/fabricated ( wool, foam)be used instead of fiberglass?
Anything to help slow the transfer of heat would be better than nothing at all. Heck, even a bike tube.
Just curious why you didn't just throw a mattress in the back and call it a day? Kidding. I just can't imagine that much heat will make it's way through the bolts to make much difference. I get the theory, but this seems like using NASA to make a coffee table. Much respect though.
You'd be amazed. As an example, the steel floor rails for my sliding seat are bolted directly to the floor of the van, and they get way cold in winter, while the rest of the floor is fine. The aluminum would do the same thing if bolted up-direct..it will absorb whatever heat/cold is outside.
Thanks for the great videos! How would one going about attaching to the floor? We are building a shower and want to attach at floor and ceiling. Would you just attach to plywood floor? Appreciate your knowledge!
Hi Cindy, my floor is attached using the factory Sprinter cargo tie downs. Under the vinyl is the stock wood floor. All of my cabinetry is bolted to the back wall as well as the factory floor tie down points. I'm not sure if that helps--my layout doesn't have any walls going all the way to the ceiling, so I'm just imagining how I would do it.
@@ourkaravan Thanks so much! We haven't put walls in yet, and we took up the factory floor, but we can definitely attach to wall and the tie down points. Best, Cindy
Did you used any lock washer behind the wall or lock tie every where you had screws and nuts against the vibration on the road?
I watch all your video anther Van Camper builders no one talk about it?
If not, you are going to see near your future one nut after other will fall, because I did not see you put one.
You need red lock tie or blue if you don't want use a lock washer.
I used nylock washers, which are vibration resistant.
Thank you so much! Can you discuss how you attached this cabinet to the floor...if you did? Thanks again!
I have a video on that coming soon!
Thermal insulation, Thanks for sharing those great videos. Where could I find post/blog from "sourigo outsama" I search the forum at no avail. Could you share a link to his post?
His forum name is "LooseRocks" He has a build thread on sprinter forums....he has a very nice van.
How is the 8020 profile mounting better than the airline L-tracks? Does it provide advantages that the L-tracks do not?
Hi Michelle, both are good products. The airline track is better to attach gear that you are taking in and out, thanks to the variety of fasteners made. However if you’re using it to attach cabinetry I prefer the 80/20 because you can bolt something down anywhere along its length, while the airline track would require aligning your attachment points along the increments in the l-track, if that makes any sense.
ourkaravan it makes total sense!
Good luck with your build!
Can you tell us approximately how much your materials for the 80/20 cost for your cabinets?
To the penny! ourkaravan.com/8020-cost-and-weight/
Why did you use the bolts instead of rivets this time?
You can use either method but when the back of the object you are attaching is accessible, it's easier to use bolts and nuts.
Hey Ken....I am working on cabinet framing design and would appreciate your help. Do you have the centerline height (above finished floor) of your horizontal double profile 80/20 piece attached to van wall? Also, I assume this is roughly mounted on the center of the horizontal structure running the length of the van? Also, Do you recall the height of the upper horizontal van structure piece above finished floor that I assume you used to attach your upper cabinet framing to? I cant find these dimension on the net or MB site. Thanks! Oh yeah. Do you have sketchup model of your upper cabinets? Could not find this on your site.
Hi, I'm happy to take any measurement you want however I'm not sure what the final height of the finished floor was, which means any measurement I take based off that wouldn't mean much. What might be best is freezing the video and visually estimating the height of the piece attached to the wall *above the oval-shaped cutouts.* That should give you a better reference for that particular height. I'm not sure what you second question is referring to. The bar attached to the ribs are utilizing the inner factory holes. The upper bar is then attached via the fiberglass angle. Perhaps you can clarify and I'll see if I can get any pertinent measurements.
@@ourkaravan thanks Ken. in a nutshell, I am looking for the approximate heights, off the floor, to the center line of the horizontal 'ribs' (or to the inner factory holes in the ribs). These are the van ribs that you used to attach your 80/20 and in turn used to support your upper lower and upper cabinets to the wall. I'm guessing here but the lower rib centerline or holes look to be about 2'-6" and perhaps the upper rib is 5'-6" above the floor? I guess your floor ~3/4"-1" thick. Just looking for approximates for rough design and will tweak when I receive my van.
Also...really appreciate the galley sketch-up model. I will tweak this for my galley. Do you have a sketch-up model for your upper galley cabinets?
I believe my finished floor is very slightly over 1" thick. With that said:
Height of finished floor to bottom of lower outside alum profile: 59-1/2"
Height of finished floor to bottom of upper outside alum profile: 72-5/8"
Height of vertical support pieces between the two profiles: 11-5/8"
Total profile length: 112"
Depth from outside of the lower alum profile to the factory headliner: 12-1/2" (this is essentially the maximum cabinet depth with the cabinet door closed when the factory headliner is in place.
Hope that helps.
you never answer my emails in your website for the kit :(
I didn’t see a question, happy to answer
where do u buy the 80/20s?
I've been making all of my purchases from Amazon. I have several articles on my website about 80/20, but this one specifically addresses how to buy it: ourkaravan.com/8020-extruded-aluminum-van-cabinets/
I hope that helps! -Ken
NEVER EVER - wear gloves while working on a drill press or any rotating tools. I've seen fingers ripped off the hand when the glove got caught.
Noted, thanks!
Cost too much ,wood still alot cheaper