The Medieval Kingdom that was Erased from History
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
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The medieval era is full of mysterious events, occurrences, and places, with sometimes even entire kingdoms becoming entirely shrouded in the unknown.
We will be examining one of these kingdoms today, Pengwern, whose impact on both the history of Wales and the history of England has seemingly only been slight, with this Welsh kingdom's base on the Wrekin in Shropshire, its only known king, Cynddylan, seems to have succeeded in only antagonising his English neighbours of Mercia and Northumbria.
However, the fascinating Welsh history of this realm has largely eluded us for the past 1000 years, and today I'd like to present that to you, so we can see how Welsh history and English history can collide to create a both a fascinating story, and a tragedy of a kingdom erased from medieval history.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
1:43 - Amwythig
4:26 - Caught in the Web
10:27 - Pengwern Ablaze
13:19 - The City of Virocon
17:18 - Know Your Enemy
20:48 - Powys
24:01 - The Cornovii
26:54 - The Usurper
32:00 - Pengwern
Sources (turn captions on):
[1] Aneurin (1829). Mediolanum. The Cambrian Quarterly, 1(1), pp.48-52.
Bartrum, P.C. (1993). A Welsh Classical Dictionary : People in History and Legend up to about A.D. 1000. The National Library of Wales,
[2] pp.191-193,
[3] 195-196,
[4] 411,
[5] 613-614.
Charles-Edwards, T. (2013). Wales and the Britons, 350-1064. Oxford: OUP,
[6] pp.16,
[7] 425-427,
[8] 674.
Davies, J. (2007). A History of Wales. London: Penguin,
[9] pp.61-62,
[10] 75,
[11] 82.
[12] Higham, N. (2005). King Arthur: Myth-Making and History. Taylor & Francis, pp.177-179.
[13] Jesus College Oxford. About Jesus College/History/Libraries and Archives/ Manuscripts. [online] jesus.ox.ac.uk. Available at: www.jesus.ox.ac.uk/about-jesu....
[14] Morris, L. (1878). Celtic Remains. Archaeologia Cambrensis, p.16.
[15] Maund, K. (2006). The Welsh Kings. 3rd ed. The History Press Ltd, pp.35-44.
[16] Newman, J. (2006). Shropshire. Yale University Press, pp.135-136.
[17] Richards, M. (1973). The ‘Lichfield’ Gospels (Book of 'St Chad). The National Library of Wales Journal, 18(1), pp.135-148.
[18] Roberts, J.A. (1897). Notices of books. Bye-Gones, p.34.
[19] Stephens, T. (1864). Llywarch Hen and Uriconium. Archaeologia Cambrensis, 10, 3rd Series(1), pp.62-74.
[20] Stephenson, D. (2016). Medieval Powys: Kingdom, Principality and Lordships, 1132-1293. Boydell Press, pp.53, 105, 289.
[21] Thomas (1907). The Ordovices and Ancient Powys. Collections, historical & archaeological relating to Montgomeryshire, 34(1), pp.129-145.
[22] Thornton, D.E. (2004). Cynddylan ap Cyndrwyn (fl. c. 616-c. 641), king in Wales. Oxford dictionary of national biography.
[23] Thorpe, L. (1978). Gerald of Wales: The Journey Through Wales and The Description of Wales. Penguin Books, p.139.
[24] Williams, G. (1998). Sir Gruffydd Fychan (?-1447). Montgomeryshire collections relating to Montgomeryshire and its borders., 86, p.19.
Music by © Chris Zabriskie - CC BY-SA 4.0
chriszabriskie.bandcamp.com :
Rewound
CGI Snake
What Does Anybody Know About Anything
Other music courtesy of the CZcams Audio Library:
Fortress Europe - Dan Bodan
Miniscule Planet - JAde Wii
Dream Escape - The Tides
Ammil - The Tides
Underwater Exploration - Godmode
On the Island - Godmode
Day Sparkles - Geographer
Two Moons - Bobby Richards
Dolphin-esque - Godmode
Images, in order of appearance:
Llys Rhosyr - Chris Andrews, CC BY-SA 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Cross at Heavenfield - David Dixon, CC BY-SA 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons
All other images are public domain, sourced from the National Library of Wales, the Yale Center for British Art, the British Library, and the Rijksmuseum
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It's good to be back, I hope you all enjoy. I also apologise for the occasional glitch, including the wacky (hopefully now blurred) map towards the end for a few seconds, I'm still getting to grips with the new software, diolch.
Could you do a video on Dumnonia / West Wales
Definitely! I've already been doing some small bits of research on the family tree of the Cornish kings (or rather, what we can piece together)
@@CambrianChroniclesOoooh Arrrr...me handsome....apologies to the lovely Kernow branch of the Celtic fringe..best wishes from the Hiberno Norse peninsula of the wirral...😅😅😅...E...
Your videos are great! 🙂
This is really fascinating. I can only imagine the amount of time that goes in to researching a 'forgotten/lost kingdom'. Must be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I commend you on your efforts and I think you are quite good at this. You are, in essence, an explorer - like those of past centuries. Wales has such a rich history and I enjoy learning about it so, thank you very much for teaching it to us. I love history. Have a wonderful day and best wishes. 🌱
The Pengwerns were forced south. Everywhere they settled, the locals forced them south. This is why there are no Pengwerns in the northern hemisphere.
At least some Perngwens traveled to Madagascar, Africa, and Monaco with some help from some zoo animals from New York City.
LOL
...I get the joke, but that also sounds like an 'epic struggle story' all on its own.
If you're not sure how to pronounce that, just ask Benedict Cumberbatch
Good joke. But did you know that penguin is also Welsh meaning ‘white head’. Named by a Welsh explorer
It's honestly such an existential thought to think there are like hundreds if not thousands of old kingdoms and civilizations with their own history, language, culture and glorious feats etc. Which we know nothing about and probably never will because all traces of their existence are gone.
The problem is that many of these polities were short lived, didn’t have their own language, had local rivals and enemies. Their borders were never secure and it took little to blow them away.
We honor them by honoring our forefathers!
Well, yes. That's why actual history is much older and unknown ancient civilizations started much earlier than what conventional history tells us, because the longer time passes, the less evidence survives. It's the natural eroding process of time.
@@servus_incognitus There’s no such thing as conventional history. There’s history, based on evidence, and speculation, based on ignorance.
@@Joanna-il2urThat's not necessarily true. Most Eastern-Iranic people that were once historically prominent like the Scythians and Alans are gone. Only the Ossetians, a people with a state only recognized by other unrecognized states, remain of what was once a major culture on the world stage for thousands of years. In the span of only a few generations, native Iberians were Romanized and their history is almost non-existent. In more recent times, we've seen the total genocide of indigenous American peoples through deliberate and targeted effort to destroy their history.
These small lost kingdoms and forgotten wars of medieval Britain feel so much like Lord of The Rings lore. Its pretty easy to see where Tolkien got his inspiration from.
Yes, while watching I couldn't help but think to myself how Tolkienesque it all sounded. There's something very romantic about it all, the histories of Britain and Middle-earth. Of ancient kings and kingdoms come and gone, buried beneath the sands of time. Romantic and somber.
@@DovahFett It really makes sense when you think about how The Wanderer was composed during this era, a poem about a huscarl whose lord and lands are lost. The poem was a big inspiration for Middle-Earth and Rohan in particular.
Especially when one locale was literally named "Shire"
Have you read Farmer Giles Of Ham by Tolkien? You'd like it I suspect.
The Tolkein film of his early life was filmed here on the Wirral peninsula, site of the great battle of Brunanburh/Bromborough 937AD,Wirral,namechecked albeit in Welsh in the medieval poem of sir Gawain and the green knight...written by the Lancelyn green family ( a notable Wirral family) , whose ancestors arrived with William the Conqueror....cheers...E...😊
We often forget how irritating it must have been to be a simple farmer back then, you got a new ruler every couple of years and you’d worry whether the dude was nice or if he would make your difficult life even harder.
I wonder if some people who were very isolated from the rest sometimes didn’t know that the ruler changed.
Indeed, especially being levied to fight in the ultra-wealthy king's wars. Imagine being drafted by Mark Zuckerberg to go fight Twitter users.
@@CambrianChronicles 😂
@@CambrianChronicles reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy grail...the King is the only one not covered in sh×× ....😊😆😆
In Alaska, during the Spanish Flu, American officials would go to take census, etc and be greeted by natives who understood themselves to be subject of the Tzar, or unaware of any foreign dominion whatsoever.
😂😂😂 unless you were unlucky enough to be Viking'd or called up for the Fyrd...I genuinely doubt you'd be aware.
Wheat seeds are sown
Wheat grows
Wheat is reaped
Snow...time to slaughter Bessie
....oh it's wheat seed time again. Make sure you move two thirds of the Hyde along to give the grass time to recover.
If there are this many strange and forgotten kingdoms in the relatively small area of Wales , it makes you wonder how many there are in larger and more populous areas like, say, Germany
Definitely, although it's worth noting that Wales has a bit of an advantage for having lots of small kingdoms as the mountains create lots of small pockets for control, rather than one big flat plain.
My (German) village alone has two mentions of a kingdom never mentioned anywhere else, a buried saint, a history of war with our neighbouring village going back to at least the late 800's, in which our local and powerful womans-cloister played a major role.
The thing is, that all this is basically irrelevant, as early as the 1200 all these areas were united under the prince-bishops of Münster (which had a medieval "communist" revolution), and is social, economically and culturally homogenous, unlike wales, with directly neighbours England, and is close to Ireland. All this means that our history is way less consequential than that of wales, where there still are all these neighbours, with their own national identities.
There also is what @CambrianChronicles himself already mentioned, being that Germany, and most of Central Europe is really bloody flat, and therefore indefensible (just ask the Poles), leading to bigger lands. And where it is hilly (Austria and Switzerland), it has been under pretty unitary Austrian control from Karl the great's rule onwards (With Switzerland breaking out, and forming their reasonably stable confederation at some point.).
Also, we don't speak elvish, so everything is way less interesting.
Most baltic proto states have like 1 mention in the histories and thats it.
@@CambrianChronicles But Wales is small by comparison.
@@jkr9594 Correct...Swiss German sounds more like Dwarfish to my Austrian ears
The fact that using mistranslation, poetry and historical context has allowed modern historians to reconstruct the existence of an entire kingdom is absolutely incredible
I am living in the heart of Shrewsbury and I've seen 'Pengwern' written all over the place without ever knowing what it was... this video was quite an eye opener!
What are the signs for and where are they?😊
@@Natty183 just off the top of my head there is the boat club mentioned in the video, and there is a 'pengwern books' bookshop. I will certainly be keeping an eye out for it elsewhere in town now!
How long have they been named that? I wonder why they were named that? Maybe since it was discovered there was a lost kingdom there? It's so interesting to me lol, for some reason.
A little known fact. If it wasn't for the Mercians, The Welsh would certainly have taken most of what is now England. Hadrian's wall is known throughout the world but Offa's Dyke isn't even well known by the Welsh or English despite it being on maps
@@kb4432 offa's dyke is pretty well known in shropshire at least, it's a big part of our history...!
I find it fascinating how much we don't know about the 4th-6th centuries in Britain, it's this mystifying gap in the record, we go into it with Romanised Britons living in Roman towns and come out of it with a bunch of Anglo-Saxon and Welsh petty kingdoms. It must have been so insanely chaotic.
Fab. Video, great interest in history of Cymru/ancient Prydain, thankyou for your research and sharing this presentation.
The Britons (Welsh) were skilled intelligent warriors. They always made out to be backward but the Britons had laws, governance, trading for thousands of years
We also need to contemplate that they'll know way too much about us to make any kind of sense.
Im from Shropshire and super interested in local history. The mysteries around Pengwern have always infuriated me. Its so awesome that youve managed to put together some more satisfying answers.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I'm from Shrewsbury and when I moved into my house it was called Pengwern!
I'm from Shrewsbury and I assure you Shrewsbury is English.
@@will1603All I'm saying is - Its Pengwern not Pengworn 😂😂😂 yeah I'm from Telford
Hello, fellow salopians.
I love historical cold cases like this. It’s not that there’s nothing to go off of, but there’s enough to where you can try and figure out what’s been lost to history without it being easily laid out for you, or without having to go off of so much conjecture that you end up in fantasyland.
Cannot give enough credit for the historians who spend their lives putting it together and channels like these which make that research digestible for a modern audience. ❤
Me too, they're super interesting, hopefully I'll be able to do a few more sometime in the future!
And thank you for that, it's my mission to make Welsh history more accessible so I'm glad it's working out, thanks for watching!
A little known fact. If it wasn't for Mercians, The Welsh would certainly have taken most of what is now England. Hadrian's wall is known throughout the world but Offa's Dyke isn't even well known by the Welsh or English despite it being on maps
Being able to tell that you're in fantasyland is a skill that many conspiracy theorists seem to suppress lol
Are you that guy who commented on Lore Master long ago?
The history books I've read have done little to no mention of Pengwern other than "it existed, probably" so this was extremely helpful - so thank you for another amazing video, I eagerly await more 😊
Yep, that was the biggest pain researching this, hence why a bunch of the sources are quite old (and the best one being from the 1970s), no one has given Pengwern much of a consideration recently, but hopefully that'll change soon. Thanks for watching!
Subtitling renders Pengwern as Penguin. I'll have to go somewhere that I can turn up the volume to take this seriously.
Subtitles are on the way, but with such a long video they take a while. I was curious what CZcams was going to turn Pengwern into, and I'd say penguin is a pretty good replacement
@@CambrianChronicles You are not alone. The gravitas of subtitled Ukraine war coverage is undermined by Donetsk being rendered as Donuts! Keep up the good work. While often speculative, your efforts to order limited sources are really interesting.
@@markaxworthy2508no wonder the Russians fancy it 😅
Reminds me of that Cumberpatch documentary 😂
Not bad, as “Penguin” is a welsh word! = “white head”
I live pretty much at the foot of the Wrekin. You really can see a lot from up there! There's a story about the hill being built by a giant, who came from Wales to divert the river and drown the nearby towns. "He laid down hid shovel of earth, and made the Wrekin, and the dirt off his boots formed the Ercall." There's a couple of slightly differing versions, as there often is with such legends, but that's the gist. Interestingly, it is also geologically different from the surrounding area. There's certainly a lot of history in the area, thank you for introducing me to another story of the region!
I like the tale that the Devil was going to bury Tipton under a massive shovel of earth. As he struggled down the road, he met a Cobbler coming the other way who was carrying a large sack of worn-out shoes on his back (He was planning to repair and resell these). The Devil asked how far away Tipton was, and the Cobblers told the Devil that he didn't know how far it was; but he'd worn out all of these shoes walking from there. Disheartened, the Devil dumped his shovelful of soil, forming the Wrekin, and returning to Hell. 😄👍
@@euansmith3699 I didn't realise Tipton was the town! I forgot the part about the cobbler, that was also in the telling I heard. I also didn't realise the devil was involved in one version, interesting!
@@Ben_B_Artist Don't quote me, my recall isn't necessarily accurate; my memory is sadly a thing of the past. 🤪 Checking Google Maps, the Devil's destination was probably Telford (You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.) Or, maybe Shrewsbury.
@@angr3819 According to geology, the Wrekin owes its existence to volcanism and some sedimentary deposits; but, then, science also claims that giants don't exist, so they had to come up with some explanation. 😄😄😄👍
@@euansmith3699 Telford is alright, really 😅 Probably more Shrewsbury, or Wellington. They're both pretty old places.
This kind of thing happened a lot back then, especially to smaller places like Pengwern. It’s still happening. Ask anyone on the street to point out Bohemia on a map. Ask them if they know anything at all about Bohemian culture or history, if they can name even one Bohemian king. Bohemia existed only 120 years ago and was hugely influential for centuries, and in our history textbooks, it’s like it never existed.
did you hear about any lusatian culture tribe on early Poland maps and ever later?
Poland literally started by a group expanding on lusatian culture territory that was also squizzed by Germans from west
but it was a big culture of the region
like Bohemia and not easily integrated as a few uprisings were beaten despite dividing these folks and breaking their previous loyalties
and i can bet lots of myths and stories of these people still survived in Chechia and we're simply integrated as chechish
I know Bohemian Rhapsody
It depends on whether the person on the street has played an excellent computer game called Kingdom Come: Deliverance. ;-)
Bohemia is literally just an archaic exonym for Czechia, even the slavic language name for bohemia was české (czech).
@HainesAtSIAM absolutely can't wait for the sequel whenever that happens ⚔️🛡🔰👑
You are quickly becoming one of the very best history related content creators on the entire site, in fact I'd be hard pressed to find someone who goes into such painstaking detail in such a high quality format as you do, great job mate.
Thank you so much! That's very kind of you and much appreciated
@@CambrianChroniclesit's amazing how you've managed to. Painstakingly put together such a small piece of history with such great detail. 👍
Powys being the countryside that broke off of pengwerns back when the legions left and the civitas actually makes a lot of sense with early names being closer to pagus which is latin for “country district”
I think it would be nice if you had an index of names somewhere in the comments or description. Having so many names listed in quick succession makes it really difficult to keep up. Especially for someone like me who has trouble remembering names. Otherwise, I think your videos are beautiful!
That's a really good idea, I'll definitely do that next time!
@@CambrianChronicles thank you!
I can understand why Shrewsbury would be looked at as being Pengwern. If you look at the topology and the really old history of the place. As someone from there, I can tell you that there is a hill in the town, having walked up the Wyle Cop too many times for my liking, and is in it's own valley. Also the hill was surrounded by marsh's/swamps, which was caused by the river Severn. And there is 1 point that gives access to the town that is under 100 yards that would not have been swamp, which makes it easier to defend. There are 2 tall buildings in the town, around 10 floors, but they had to dig down 3 times that height, though shale, until they hit solid ground so they could build the foundations. So the name Pengwern fits the area.
The name Shrewsbury comes from the old English, Sċrobbesburh (literally “fort in the scrubland region” or "Scrobb's fort"). So at the time of the 5th - 7th century there was a fort there. Amwythig means "fortified place" or “fort in the scrubland region”, but that may be down to the English influence.
I am not saying that Shrewsbury was Pengwern, but I can understand why a lot of people think it was.
I Live in Shropshire, Ludlow was also a major military strategic capital. Shropshire is the 'forgotten county' and its absolutely gorgeous.
Apart from Telford, the barbaric carbuncle.
Love, love Shropshire. Would move there in a heartbeat
Oh my god this is amazing.
One question though, assuming that Pengwern and Mercia were allies, the attack on the monastery slayed one of the King of Mercia’s sons, would that signify the end of their alliance? It seems rather random if they were both still allied against Northumbria.
Yes it most likely did, Bartrum suggests that Cynddylan's sister urged him to attack Lichfield, suggesting that perhaps Cynddylan would've rather maintained an alliance with the new king instead.
Medieval alliances were personnal and privates. Nothing to do with modern treaty alliances.
Nice Manfred von Richthofen profile pic btw.
The idea of taking mortal revenge upon someone who had killed a family member very much fits within the Anglo-Saxon quasi-legal concept of the Blood Feud, by which it was almost considered a duty. Thus reinforcing the motivation for Oswiu to ruthlessly go after Cynddylan.
Anglo Saxon Law is usually about preventing blood feuds by insisting on the wergild payment.
Fun fact: blood price was lower for a celtic speaker than a germanic speaker, suggesting that the English language came about via natives adopting the language under this imbalance rather than saxons replacing the populations. Genealogy also supports this as most English people have more in common with “celtic” peoples than germanic, except kent and york. Early kings of the english kingdoms i do believe had rather un-saxon sounding names too, so there’s a whole rabbit hole here to dive in
@@colonelturmeric558 Fun Fact: This was a much later Law in Wessex, the Law of Ine, one of its kings. It isn’t from the same era. The law says that if you see a Welshman on a path you are entitled to kill him. But that was the area near Winchester, centuries later and why would you want to kill him, and how would you know he was Welsh. The reference to wergild comes from the rules of the Guilds of Cambridge which say a wergild of a Welshman was lower than that of an Englishman. But that’s not a law, but rules of a guild. It’s eleventh century, 500 years later than Pengwirn and hundreds of miles away. There are no surviving laws from Mercia, if any existed. There’s a law code from the Hwicce (in Worcestershire) and ones maintained in Kent dating back long before Mercian occupation. There were Welsh speaking bandits roaming, as recorded in the Life of Guthlac by Felix of Burgundy. Felix says his retreat in Crowland, Lincs was attacked one night by devils. He knew they were devils because they spoke Welsh.
The laws of Ine doesn't say you can kill a Welsh person if you see one, quite the opposite. It assigns a Wergild of 120 (shillings?) to a Welshman who owned a hide of land, 60 if he was landless, and 200 if we was a cavalryman in service of the king.
@@CambrianChronicles I got it from Guy Halsall who got it if I recall from Patrick Sims-Williams. Serves me right for putting my faith in princes.
My only issue with Pengwern being the Wrekin is surely the references would’ve been towards the Severn rather than the Tern with it being closer and a more major waterway. Instinctively I’d suggest the palace was north of the Wrekin and that the Wrekin and Ercall Hill are the hills referred to that she climbed to watch the palace burn. The palace I’d suggest would be somewhere closer to Longden on Tern, Crudgington or Waters Upton. It could even be as far north as Market Drayton and she’d still have been able to see the fire from the Wrekin, although that 12-15 miles may have been too far for her to flee to watch the fire. Drayton is now the major town on the Tern and wasn’t settled in its present incarnation until the 11th century by the monks of Combermere, in 1086 it only had 5 households but there was a church. It’s not inconceivable to think the church’s site atop a sandstone cliff overlooking the Tern could’ve been chosen as it was the site of a burned and ruined palace, already several hundred years old.
That's reasonable, but it's important to note that the Tern isn't any sort of major reference, it's just the river that the town was on during the last battle.
Unless it's actually a town called "Tren" mind, which is what the poem says, but no one knows where that might be
@@CambrianChronicles agreed, it just seems strange to mention a rather insignificant 30 mile long river as opposed to the closer, major waterway to the Wrekin if that’s where they were. There’s not a great deal of archaeological survey been done along the Tern, it would be interesting to explore what could be there. It is a river I love, small that it is, it was my childhood playground.
I immediately wondered if she went to what eventually became the town of Wellington, as that's very close to The Wrekin.
Hi, i am a shropshire lass, could it possibly be Haughmond Hill? It has a fantastic view of Shrewsbury, plus there are the remains of an Abbey, Haughmond Abbey.
Also if part of Pengwern means surrounded, old Shrewsbury was surrounded by the River Severn, very interesting.
I was also told at school about the giant dropping his shovel full to create the Wrekin.
The Welsh boundries have been moved over time, i do believe that Shropshire was part of Wales, maybe not all but a large part of the south was, maybe, it still feels very Welsh to me, personally.
Thank you.
I have been thinking along the same lines as you. The narrative says that she fled to the hills from where she could see Pengwern burning. Shrewsbury can be seen from The Wrekin but I'd like to offer an alternative to Market Drayton. Looking in the direction of Shrewsbury and Wroxeter is Attingham Park where the Tern meets the Severn. The history of the buildings on the site have been firmly associated with the river Tern for many centuries and archaeological records show settlement back to the bronze age.
I love the usage of the 3d modern map coupled with the older chartered maps, glad they're used in conjunction and not supplanting one another. My girlfriend is from Shrewsbury and I loved learning all about the area and its surrounding regions in this video. Thank you for hours of highly interesting and enriching content!
Thank you, it was really fun getting to swap between the maps so I'm glad you liked it!
My family ,(on dad's side) the Howells, came from Wales. I love hearing Welsh history. Thanks.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I grew up in Bewdley some 30 miles down the river Severn from Shrewsbury, I now live in Powys and regularly travel past the Wrekin to visit my old mum. I’ll look on the landscape with renewed wonder, at our history. Thank you.
Thank you, I'm really glad you enjoyed it
Amazing how the way you narrate a niche topic like Welsh medieval history makes millions interested
Benedict Cumberbach should have narrated this
They have those at Antarctica.
Damn pandas. They made penguins life very difficult
It cannot have been easy to be a small kingdom in a battlezone between Mercia and Northumbria. There must be more to find here. Agreements. Rewards for lords in old battles, now forgotten. Powys-wrekin.
Hopefully we can discover more someday
Northumbria had many kingdoms in such small space ... wasn't there 12 small kingdoms in northumbria?
It is nice to see videos on topics rarely, maybe never talked about on youtube. I understand that the research for these videos must have taken a lot of time.
Keep up the great work!
Thank you, they do take quite a while but the research is my favourite part! Asking and trying to answer as many questions as I can whilst reading is fun, but I tend to get carried away (hence the 36 minute runtime, AFTER some had been cut out)
It's amazing to think that almost every place on the planet has just as much history as this, and this is just a deep dive into one particular place.
@@BorkDoggo I agree, that's what makes history so fascinating! Practically every hillfort in the country could have a story as long as this to tell, and it's a shame so much has been lost
@@CambrianChronicles I am from the US, in a region where most of the towns, streams, etc. have native American names. You can be certain there are dozens of stories leading up to that name, stretching back thousands of years, and each of them is probably dramatic enough to be a full movie. And 99% of it is lost except for hints of it in local legends, and those themselves are known by the few elderly people who still speak indigenous languages
@@CambrianChroniclesgetting drawn in is part of the fun...😅😅😅
Absolutely fascinating video! I find the subjects you touch on as incredibly interesting, and as a historian myself, it never ceases to inspire me to dive further into the deep and almost mysterious rabbit holes of Welsh history. It's almost like a hunt having to investigate thoroughly through the histories of Welsh, Anglo-Saxon, and a multitude other Brythonic kingdoms and tribes, and it's absolute fun and I can see why it fascinates you as well. Please keep up the brilliant work, you're really being an influential source of what I like to call my "Cambrian craze", and I'm certain you are equally influential for so many others. Thank you for all the dedication you put towards your work, they are serious documentary material.
Thank you, that's very kind, I'm happy to have helped with your Cambrian craze (which is a great name)!
This is like the "PBS Space Time" of history videos. You and Matt O'Dowd, both explaining ridiculously obscure and convoluted and difficult things, explaining them very well and simply, while the subject is still on the level of "what if the speed of light *wasn't* constant?"
Which is to say, I need to watch this a few more times, with a notebook.
This is such an interesting topic to learn about, especially for me as a Shropshire local
Thank you! I'm hoping to cover a bit more of Shropshire in the future
@@CambrianChroniclesA comparison between Oswestry and Ashton in Makerfield ( Makerfield) ,as the site of Saint / King Oswald,s martyrdom, might be interesting, Wigan MBC have some interesting online stuff about Winwick parish church...just a thought...cheers..E...😊😊
Typo...Maserfield
The Staffordshire hoard was found just west of Litchfield. And during this same time period. It is amazing to be able to view actual items from this period in our history. The hoard could be from one of these battles.
Thanks, very interesting!
My one set of ancestors were from Clun in Shropshire and I have visited the area and also been to Shrewsbury a number of times - lovely old place.
The Wrekin is a very familiar place to me as people from Birmingham in the West Midlands use the phrase 'round the Wrekin' to mean going the long way round to get somewhere 😄
My grandmother was born in Clun living in Bishops Castle. She was called Myfanwy and spoke Welsh. ❤
I loved this, knowing a little about it but from the perspective of the Northumbrian kings. I have read the Song of Heledd too, in translation, and it was great to have that put into a historical context. It always puzzled me as to why it would be written so much later than the events it laments.
It could not be helped, but I'm afraid that I struggled a great deal with the Welsh pronunciation of names. It helps when the name is printed on the screen as I am used to seeing it written, at the same time as it is spoken in the commentary.
Thank you for a fascinating video.
I would just like to comment to praise the stepping up in the presentation of this video. While there's nothing wrong with a slideshow-esque video on such topics, the effort to make it visually appealing has not gone unnoticed
Thank you! I tried to step up the audio and visuals, the audio is definitely better but still needs a lot of work, but I'm happy with how the visuals turned out!
Excellent video and I’ll go with this theory… it all seems to stack up and fits very nicely.
I’ve always wondered about Shropshire. It’s not really Mercian but more Welsh as you do get English Shropshire and Welsh Shropshire. Hwiccia is another anomaly as it’s mentioned as a client kingdom of Mercia but is probably Brythonic. I’ve always found that Western Mercia is an odd ball area as Mercia was partly Anglian and it’s almost as if Penda absorbed a lot of old client kingdoms in what is now Herefordshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire.
It is reasonable as Mercia is well known for having subkings that were later "unkinged" as authority centralised.
You tend to get this mixed environment in many borderlands not only on the England-Wales borderlands. Alsace and Lorraine still not really sure if they are culturally more German or French while Berwick and the Scots-English border lands also very mixed. Certainly the English and Scots marches have a lot more in common with each other than with London or Glasgow. The unique nature of these English-Welsh borderlands in both customs and laws was retained for many hundreds of years after the end of Mercia with Marcher Lordships and Marcher Law carrying on well into the early modern period. Think a lot of the locals still refuse to accept that their unique and seperate status under Marcher law and customs is ending any time soon.
Anyone else thinking about penguins?
excellent production on this video, something to be proud of!
Thank you, that's very kind
I love these obscure lost Briton kingdoms in the Lloegyr. I hope to see more of these excellent videos. As a Surrey man I hope to see something covering the south-east
Search your memories any puzzling references taught you
really interesting - and very complicated. it's amazing what you've assembled from fragmentary information. i live in Shrewsbury and had never considered why bookshops, boathouses, etc were called Pengwern. thanks!
Thank you, I'm glad to have piqued your interest!
Unraveling these kinds of mysteries are what keep the study of history engaging and exciting.
I absolutely love local history. I've grown up under the shadow of the Wrekin. I can't help but feel there's a missed opportunity for teachers in the area to use the great history of the land to better engage their students.
We have a lot of museums around the industrial revolution, but scarce few on its ancient history, almost like nothing before the founding of 'Telford' and the Iron bridge matters... Which is a shame.
I agree, there always seems to be a devoid of local history here in the UK, and especially with pre-industrial or occasionally pre-Tudor history.
Another great video, love the improvement of the visuals and audio. Have you ever looked into “The Problem of Caer Guortigirn”? It’s quite similar to the Pengwern situation and I would love to hear your thoughts on it as so many historians disagree on it.
I haven't but that sounds interesting!
@@CambrianChroniclesyeah it’s a case of identifying Vortigern’s true fort with lots of propaganda and inconsistencies.
Extremely well made video! Your editing improves much more after each video you make, I'm glad that you make videos on these incredibly fascinating topics.
Just want you to know how much I have enjoyed this. Your production values, presentation and narration are masterful, to say nothing of the content quality itself. Thank you so much.and I've happily subbed.
Take care, Sir!
I'm so glad this appeared in my feed! I live in the general area and haven't heard of Pengwern before. Thank you for putting this together, excellent video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Extremely captivating. I really enjoyed the direction of the video and story telling. As a big fan, I am as always looking forward to more. Thank you for all you do!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Have I spent my entire NYE watching your videos? Yes. This one just happened to be playing, so uh, Happy New Years! Thanks for making such interesting and information video lectures! :)
Thats very interresting, and your narration is top notch!
Thank you for this, for such obscure details in history, and with such scant evidence, you weave a narrative that is surprisingly easy to follow.
Thank you, I'm glad, its always a worry after writing such a long video if it even makes sense in the end
@@CambrianChronicles Props too for using the correct latin pronunciation of civitas!
Congrats on another great video! The visuals and the wat the whole video is made is amazing
Thank you, I'm glad they were worth spending the extra time on
Wow, your videos just keep getting better and better! I love this, it's like real life lore theorizing.
I love how you use context clues from the menagerie of broken histories to help reconstruct these places lost to the sands of time. Keep up the good sleuthing!
What an absolutely brilliant video! Thank you for bringing to light this and many other wonderful and interesting bits of forgotten history.
Thank you!
Fabulously enjoyed, I'm fascinated by early history of the British isles.thank you for sharing, Sharon ☘️☘️
Thanking you on your nice comment
🤸thanks🌿☘️🌿
This may be your best video. Excellent. Pronunciations are very good. History obscure to even Welsh speaking people (me). I didn't know anything about Pengwern. I am so grateful to you.
I became fascinated by a people after finding out that they existed.
A Celtic people in Britain that held a territory twice the size of Wales.
These were the Cumbrians.
When I looked into it, it seemed that it had been attempted to erase them from history entirely
Lets goooo I saw the thumbail and thought "I hope its about Pengwern" and sure enough it is haha. Like a week ago I was trying to find what it was like in Mercia before the Anglo-Saxons and there were few sources but i kept seeing Pengwern and Caer Lerion mentioned after Flavia Caesariensis. Pengwern got my attention because it was similar to Penguin lol.
CZcams subtitles seem to think it's "penguin" as well!
Your pronunciations are spot on! I'm impressed
WOW! This is one of the most creatively produced videos I have seen in a long time. The editing is unlike anything I've seen before! I have to watch this again because I was too blown away by how this looks LoL. I'm going to check out the rest of the channel!
Thank you! If you like the style you should check out BobbyBroccoli and Jon Bois, they were my biggest inspirations for this video.
Unfortunately I only have two videos in this style currently, but you might enjoy my other videos still!
Gwern (pronounced like gwairn) is a feminine noun and so Pen (here the top of something) "gwern" would have a "lenition" to "wern" not that it would be written that way in those very early times. A common place name in Brittany also. I always heard " pen a wern".( the top of the alder, swamp etc.) Gwern could also be the mast of a ship but unlikely in an inland area. The /u/ in Welsh at that time was most likely pronounced like the/ü/ like in Cornish or modern Breton and not the /ee/ of today. It disappeared in English and probably through English influenced has now disappeared in modern Welsh. This is a masterful study of those regions of Britain that were once Brythonic speaking until the mid 6th century( a population collapse) after which the English kingdoms launched new invasions westwards to those lands that would eventually be called Cymru (Wales) Kernow (Cornwall) or further north to the Hen Gogledd going up to what is modern lowlands of present day Scotland. The Cornovii once lived also in the lowlands of Scotland but moved to south western Britain and gave their name to Cornwall. Others sailed south to Armorica and gave the name Kernow in Brittany .From a Latin Virocon, would normally give either "Gwirocon" or even "Gwericon" in early Brythonic ."Pou" (prefix for various in regions central Brittany in Middle Breton). Powys is made up of "pow" (a region) and "ys"( lower) a later name for an earlier named region. I admire your professional approach and painstaking research into such a cloudy period of "post history" in Britain. How much can Bede be trusted for a fair version of history. Even Gildas (Gweltaz) his nickname cannot be taken for factual history. Sometimes educated speculation can fill in the blanks between historical periods. If possible, it might be interesting to do the same type of tracing from Winchester to Bath. Roughly the same historical periods. Merci bras dec'h !
The name Glan-y-Wern exists in Wales so perhaps Pengwern, as you're saying it should lenite, was originally Penywern and the y was mistaken for a g.
What's the basis for a southern migration of the Cornovii? I thought the general consensus was simply that it was a common name relating to peninsulas or, possibly, a patron horned god.
@@RabidBogling They (the Cornovii) were a tribe along with a score of others that existed before the arrival of the Romans. These "tribes" reverted back to pre-Roman government soon after the Roman legions left. The Anglo-Saxon incursions - invasions forced or persuaded these people to flee directly south to Western Britain. Many, once there, simply continued by crossing the Channel. There are maps of these "tribes" for Brittany and Britain in the early stages of de-Romanisation or in Britain, the flight of peoples fleeing invasion. These Celtic peoples in Britain spoke basically the same lanugage as those peoples in Gaul. The similar town names in Wales, Cornwall and Brittany today, testify to this historical migration during that period; 450-550. There are many people in Brittany who have either the same family names as in Cornwall or in some areas Wales. Example, Pengelly/ Penguelly (French spelling) Angove/ Le Goff (An-the Smith- French Le + Goff but in Breton pronounced "An Gow". Keep in mind, the Channel was not an obstacle but a safe and fast seaway to hospitable lands on the continent.
@@damionkeeling3103 Yes. I was going to mention that thank you. I have seen Pen y wern in Dyved and Pen a wern in Brittany which are both pronounced the same way with the same meaning in either Welsh or Breton (in Bro dreger),
Powys is held to reflect the Latin word pagus.
Beautiful work as always. Well done!
Thank you, I appreciate that!
This video was far more interesting and engaging than I was expecting it to be, and obviously was interested enough to click on the video in the first place. Great job
This channel is an absolute gem 👌 Keep up the good work, CC 👍
Thank you, much appreciated!
First time catching your video. I love history. Thank you for all your hard work. Excellent video. I’m subbing.
Thank you!
A Mercian here, loving your channel. I lived in Shropshire for a couple of years so this is fascinating.
Far better than the trash on the History channel.
Beautifully made video, big fan of the visuals and I can tell plenty of work went into it. Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
Very interesting video!
If there are *_so many questions_* from just 1300 to 1500 years ago, it's surprising there's any history at all from 3000 to 5000 years ago. God bless the historians!
Side note, the improved production quality of these videos is really good. Keep it up mate!
Thank you, I'm glad you like it!
No complaints here..us history buffs need to stick together..😅😅
Superb documentary
These videos are incredible, really detailed analysis of the history with pronunciation that is excellent and doesn't make me wince. Keep up the excellent work and thank you.
Thank you very much! I know the pain of bad Welsh pronunciation but luckily I can do almost all of it except rolling my Rs.
Ironically I think I mispronounce English words the most
This is so cool to learn!
I'm from Shrewsbury, it's already such an interesting town rich in history.
Shropshire its self seems to be a magnet for interesting historical events... From its geological formation to its industrial revolution that helped pave the way for the modern world!
Thank you for adding a new layer of history!
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!
I am from Wales but have visited Shrewsbury several times. It is a place that just reeks of history. It is also a beautiful town even to this day, full of parks and interesting old architecture
Whenever I hear "Shrewsbury ", I think of Brother Cadfael. I once said this to people from Shrewsbury and they laughed and were impressed.
This was fantastic, thank you.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for another great video on history of your part of the world!
Fascinating video. Uncovering mysteries from the past is a wonderful journey to explore history. Thank you so much.
Thank you, I'm happy you liked the video!
I’m just going to drop this here before watching the whole video, but I’m hoping that you’re going to land on Viroconiym Cornoviorum. We know it remained occupied well into the Saxon period-the massive timber aisled building and adjoining market that was built atop a *levelled* platform above the former basilica is proof that high-status people remained in the city as late as 530-570 CE, and was probably still occupied into the 7th century. It fits the timeline perfectly.
I have always loved this period of history, there is something not quite tangible about it. As someone commented below it is easy to see (between this and Old Norse etc.,) where Tolkien got his inspiration from. The Mabinogion tales are a favourite also. I do enjoy this channel, although one thing I do find a bit irritating is the background music volume which often competes with the narrative. Otherwise, a very enjoyable watch!
Super interesting video, the visuals are really cool!
Fantastic video. Thank you for spending the time to put it together
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@@CambrianChroniclesDefinitely did. Even though it maybe slightly out of your usual topics, have you considered doing a video on Cumbric in Englands Hen Ogledd? It's a language and history not known to many Northerners but it's a fascinating part of ours (As in Northerners) and Wales' joint history
It is interesting that just to the south-east of Llangollen, is an old part of the Dee valley abandoned by the river named Pengwern, maybe almost as a rememberance of the earlier powerbase.
If Heledd was moved for safety to the hillfort on the Wrekin then she may well have looked down and saw the burning of Pengwern at say Attingham Park/Atcham just to the east of the civitas commanding a crossing point of the Afon Hafren/Severn. Just a possibility.
Cernyw could well be the sub-kingdom in South Wales, the current village of Coedkernow/Coedcernyw being part of Glywyssing which also makes more sense than Cornwall.
Your video also makes a good job of explaining what we possibly know and shows the research you have put into the production, diolch yn fawr.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and I agree with your points!
Cernyw being a subkingdom is likely not true though, but I am aware of the theory. I replied the same in another comment:
There are two place names in the area - Coedkernew and Llan Cerniu, which indeed both contain "Cernyw", and have been a source of speculation, particularly (I believe) in the 19th century, although I can't recall where I first encountered it.
However, modern analysis has found that both of these towns are associated with Cornish saints - hence the "Cernyw".
It's not impossible that some kind of kingdom existed with that name, after all it comes from a Brythonic root, but the theory of a Gwent Cernyw is based off of place names that instead have their roots somewhere else.
Thanks for bringing kingdoms like pengwern back into the light have you considered doing a video on the kingdom of Bryneich and its final kinh morcant and his deeds.
Definitely! I want to cover some of the Celtic kingdoms in the north soon, I was doing a bit of reading on Elmet, but Bryneich will definitely be on there too
@@CambrianChronicles if you do a video on elmet would cadwallon of Gwynedd be included as the defeat of cerdic by the northumbrians pushed cadwallon to the stage.
Probably a bit, although I'd love to give Cadwallon his own video!
@@CambrianChroniclesHe and Penda and Oswald would make great protagonists in a film, who would you cast..??.....maybe Noddy Holder ( Slade) ,might make a good Penda being from that neck of the West Midlands... Rhys Ifans maybe as Cadwallon...who could be Oswald and his brother...??.. 😊😊...
What a fantastic video, I think stylistically you nailed it! I’ve been really enjoying your content!
Any videos planned for Cumberland, Strathclyde?
Definitely at some point!
That would be very interesting, cheers..E..😊
This is a really fascinating video
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Drop everything, a new Cambrian Chronicles video has just dropped!
Seriously, I love your content, and I think this is your best video yet. Agree to a large extent with your conclusions. The Wrekin would be the natural centre of power for any kingdom on the defensive in the area - from the summit, you can see all the way from Cannock Chase to the Tern valley to the hills of Powys, and have direct line of site to most other fortifications in the area, including the Berth at Bascurch. I wonder if the "Gwern" in Pengwern might simply be a corruption of Gwrigon - folk etymology doing its work as the original meaning became obscure.
Would love to see you do a video on the Battle of Chester, and the monastery at Bangor-is-y-Coed which was destroyed in the aftermath.
Thank you, that's very kind of you! It's certainly possible that Gwern is a corruption of Guricon/Gwrygon, but it'd have to be quite an early one since it's present by both the 7th and 9th century, definitely not impossible though.
The battle of Chester would be really cool, I actually wanted to cover it a while ago, but shelved it for the time being
@@CambrianChroniclesheronbridge mass grave awaits our heroic researcher..😅😅😅
@@CambrianChroniclesthere is local wirral tales , of a remnant of the Welsh/ Mercian hosst fleeing over Wallasey pool on the still standing Roman causeway, evidently the Welsh repulsed the Northumbrians on the river Dee after the first battle...it is a huge task, if I can offer any local stuff just shout...Chester city council have plenty of archives...😊
Brilliant and enjoyable analysis. Seems to be no archeological evidence of Sub-Roman occupation atop the Wrekin, but it's a huge site (8 ha.) and a cursory search shows it's been excavated in 1939, 1973 and 2016, mostly around the area of the television transmitter. We certainly know that other Iron Age hillforts were reoccupied during that period, and if there are remains of Pegwern, it would likely be a very small part of the site.
Oh wow this is fascinating! EXCELLENT video, very well done and super interesting. Thanks so much!
Also really glad they’re not all 4 min or even 8-12 min videos. You do a great job getting in depth and explaining really well
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it! I like being able to go into depth on these videos, even if the long ones take ages to make
love this video and this channel
At school in Shropshire we were told that Pengwern was probably The Berth near Baschurch, north of Shrewsbury.
When were you at school?
Welsh names exist across all England. For example, Kings Lynn on the east coast. Llynn means lake in Welsh.
Offa’s Dyke defensive earthworks run along the Welsh- English border from North to South. Recent techniques have suggested the earthwork was started in the early 5th century. Long before these poems were written.
Place names change. The old Mercia (where Offa was king) is. As is Wessex another long gone Anglian kingdom. The name of Kings Lyn has lasted. Others like Pengwern are long lost.
Wessex a Anglian Kingdom ?! We are the Kingdom of the West SAXONS not a bunch of Anglians such as you find in East Anglia and up North (as in north of Gloscester). Actually a lot less trace of Welsh names including place names that you would expect in England though I have always liked the River Avon with Avon taken from the old Welsh word for river so you have got River River.
It's more likely that it came from the Saxon for tenure (lean) or the Old Danish, as spoken by the Danish Vikings, for pool as found in the place name Dubh Lin (aka Dublin or the Black Pool) as the town had many brine pools as it was a centre of salt production. The town was until 1537 called Bishop's Lynn (or Len Episcopi) as it was under the temporal and spiritual jurisdiction of the Bishop of Norwich). The links to Old Welsh is very tenuous.
Brilliant channel. Thank you. Cheers from melbourne.aust
I enjoyed this ! You did a great job on this documentary. Very easy to follow and understand, to keep track of these names and places. Loved it! Thank you!
Thank you very much!
Excellent video! This leads me to wonder what the relationship may be between Pengwern and the people who would be known to the Anglo-Saxons as the "Wreocensaete" (people of Wroxeter, or possibly even the Wrekin). They are mentioned in the Tribal Hidage which is a difficult to date and interpret source, but which was probably a Mercian survey of the peoples over whom they had dominion (or at least claimed to have dominion), and I mentioned in passing in my video about Penda that there is evidence to suggest they held Brythonic identities throughout the 7th century. This video leads me to believe they may have been one and the same to the people of the kingdom of Pengwern, especially if the Tribal Hidage was created after the destruction of Pengwern.
Thank you! That would definitely make sense, it'd probably have to refer to the Wrekin as Viroconium was abandoned by 550, and one of sources (I think the 'Lichfield Gospels' one) even uses this as further evidence for some kind of settlement on the Wrekin, as clearly something of significance has to have been in the area for a group of people to be named after it!
There was a short lived kingdom called Cernyw that is part of the Kingdom of Ewyas story based around the lands between Hereford Monmouth and Abergavenny.
Ah, I know what you're talking about, but it actually isn't true.
There are two place names in the area - Coedkernew and Llan Cerniu, which indeed both contain "Cernyw", and have been a source of speculation, particularly (I believe) in the 19th century, although I can't recall where I first encountered it.
However, modern analysis has found that both of these towns are associated with Cornish saints - hence the "Cernyw".
It's not impossible that some kind of kingdom existed with that name, after all it comes from a Brythonic root, but the theory of a Gwent Cernyw is based off of place names that instead have their roots somewhere else.
Blown away by your research!! Bravo!!
Thank you, it took a while but I think it was worth it!
I love the editing style. Its like Chart Party. What a great approach for historical videos!
Thank you, Jon Bois and BobbyBroccoli were huge inspirations and exactly the time when I was feeling like I wanted to do something different