An Old Norse Scene in Vikings (with video)
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- An Old Norse expert looks at video of a scene in the Vikings tv show where Old Norse is (purportedly) spoken.
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
Jackson Crawford’s Patreon page: / norsebysw
Visit Grimfrost at glnk.io/6q1z/jacksoncrawford
Latest FAQs: vimeo.com/375149287 (updated Nov. 2019).
Jackson Crawford’s translation of Hávamál, with complete Old Norse text: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Hava...
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Poetic-Edda-St...
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Poetic...
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Logos and channel artwork by Justin Baird. See more of his work at: justinbairddesign.com
Teaming up with DuoLingo for Old Norse course would be legendary. They offer Klingon ffs..
If they are doing Klingon then why not old Norse?
I’d do old Norse on duolingo. 🦉
I'd just be happy to have Icelandic. Can't believe they have make believe languages but not languages with history and culture.
as long as it was done with human speakers who know something about the language. Duolingo Welsh, for example, is truly terrible, and their Hungarian is not much better.
I second entire statement
As a reenactor who hates what these shows have done for people's ubderstanding of Norse material culture, it feels good to see other aspects being criticised by experts like yourself, it is truly a shame how dirty they did all the historical aspects of this show on the so-called "History Channel"
So I am not insane for remembering that this show originally came out on the History channel?
History Channel is becoming the “Paranormal Channel” 🤦🏻♂️
i do re-enactment as well - and even tho vikings did mess up a lot and most of it not historically true - remember its hollywood they have to make it so that folk will watch the show
Yup, like so called "Anglo Saxons" running around with Spanish style helmets from centuries too late and not a hauberk in sight.
Sad but true, it's all for entertainment.
As a swede i must say you are the first american i have ever heard that says "ja" perfectly.
The backgrounds of your videos are always great but boy was this one particularly good
I noticed that too! Man's making me wanna pack my bags and move into the mountains haha
I haven't watched a vid of his in a while; and the scenery smacked me in the face and I realized I'm an idiot for not keeping up with his content.
When I hear Old Norse in TV shows, it's always painful hahah
But I think they really did a pretty great job of capturing the "feeling" of Old Norse for the people who don't really care if it's accurate or not. They could have invested a lil bit more into it, but it's okay I guess.
“Eh idk it’s crappy Old Norse.” You inevitably make me smile during every video Dr. Crawford. Thanks for being you 💖
Do people really give you crap for not being of the faith, and not take you seriously because you are a language guy?
That makes no sense, language guys are the reason we have any surviving source material to read in our modern languages at all. Language guys kept it alive. Lol
Well....on behalf of all the people who are too stuck up to say it(even though they don't have what it takes to translate old norse themselves) thanks for all your research. I love this channel.
That background scenery is absolutely stunning
Sounds like they could be saying just about anything. Thanks Jackson for trying to decipher the gobbledygook.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Old Norse used in the Norwegian TV show "Beforeigners". In this show, people from 3 different time periods (19th century, Viking age, Stone age) somehow end up in modern day Norway (it's a good series by the way). I read that they hired professionals to write the dialogues in Old Norse, 19th century Norwegian and they event went to the trouble of creating a conlang for the Stone Age people.
Aside from one of the leads who is Finnish (and had to learn phonetically all her lines in Old Norse and "Old Norse-accented modern Norwegian") most of the actors are Norwegian or Icelandic. There are many dialogues in Old Norse. I need to re watch it with your tips in mind. I won't notice the wrong grammar but maybe I'll be able to tell whether it's Modern Icelandic pronunciation or reconstructed Old Norse pronunciation.
Is it available for streaming, and if so, which service?
@@Sindraug25used to be on HBO, although I read that it was removed...
Once again the only one of them that you're *somewhat* praising is the Swedish actor Gustaf Skarsgård :D
This movie went way under the radar in 2009, but "Outlander" starring Jim Caviezel had him speaking some Old Norse at the beginning as an alien language, and then he had a quick learning experience where he learned "Old Norse", modern English really, for the rest of the movie's dialogue. It wasn't like "The Passion of the Christ" where Latin was the only language used.
Funny you mention the Latin of the passion of the Christ. Those Italian actors were pronouncing those Latin phrases with a distinct modern Roman accent. This is not evident to people who do not speak Italian like a native, but it was evident to Italians and people familiar with the language. In Italy the intonation and to a certain extent the vocabulary used is different depending on what part of Italy the speaker or speakers are from. Just like in the US you can tell if someone is from say the deep South from the way they talk you can do the same with Italians, you can identify where they from based on their accent.
Love the channel
Good stuff, Dr. Crawford.
Thank you for the choice content as always.
Completely unrealted to the content but this is one of the most beautiful backgrounds you've filmed in!
Lol...I've watched a lot of your videos but this one was priceless. Thank you very much.
I was thinking the same thing as Luke was when I watched the last video. I'm so glad you included them this go around!
You may have people bitching about wind but it's VERY worth it for the backdrop, indescribably beautiful views! Thank you mate. I'll be going back to watch more of your content. Your wanderers havamal stays with me as I read it whilst eating at work. I'm re-reading your poetic edda, and looking up EVERY old norse word with a book ' Dictionary of Northern Mythology by Rudolf Simek' . It has changed the whole experience and I believe that the Scandinavian people used mythology to teach people common sense and basic science. It's all symbology. You taught me, above all, that language, words and communication plays a HUGE role in our lives overall. I don't know if you'll read this but again; thank you for expanding my mind and sharing the beauty of the northern US.
I for one don't mind the wind as long as I can hear what he says. In the early videos it was sometimes very hard to hear him, and then at some point the audio mixing improved tremendously.
Felt the snark in this video lol... Completely justified
I know I should be listening to what you’re saying, but most of the time in this video I cannot help but marvel at the stunningly beautiful landscape behind you. The lovely blue sky and natural clouds which you don’t see often anymore these days, the forest and the hills … your little peaceful corner of the world seems still untouched by civilization. I love it, I wish I could live in a place like this. Thank you for filming most of your footage outside and letting us see the wonderful scenery.
I have a suggestion for your next video. Have a look at one of the chiefs' skeches from the muppets. From what you were saying about this video, it might be more accurate 😂
Could you make a voice over of a scene with real old norse over it?
Scathing!
The skal/must thing is maybe a false friend. If they used English dialogue to translate, "I shall fight!" sounds more epic than "I'll fight too."
Is that a new hat? Also, great video (like always)
I like how old man disgruntled he gets. I understand that!
"That would be sort of fine, if they did it better."
I like this guy.
PS: As a Norwegian I can happily say you can come live here. You're good. You get it.
It’s so cool to see how Jackson breaks this down, so much of those badly written lines would’ve gone right over my head. Still liked the show tho 😆
I’m glad you made that point that you all who are professional in linguistics , you all have to professionals in practicing hermeneutics!
"Throwing dartboards at the pronoun wall" 🤣🤣🤣
That’s sure fitting for western culture as a whole
Twitter ( and in the past tumblr) in a nutshell
Thank you for pointing that out. The imagery eluded me, because I thought it was an error in speech and that he meant to say "darts on the dartboard of the pronoun wall". Does it still work to convey a mental image of how badly mismatched the result is?
It always sounds like they have something in their mouth when they are speaking "Old Norse" (;
Katheryn Winnick (Lagertha) was the most painful to listen to, especially as the show progressed.
@@reneedailey1696 It sounds like they are speaking half gibberish and half bad Icelandic to me
@@thundercliff93swedish chef language
Godt gjort kompis
Where is he at? It’s almost like he lives in one of Bob Ross paintings
He usually mentions his general location at the end of his videos, when he says something like "From beautiful Colorado, I wish you ... all the best."
Can you translate the Swedish Chef from the Muppets for us?
He's very easy to understand. Even better then flokis chewing.
😂 the Swedish chef does not speak Swedish at all, not a word, only a highly contorted English 😉
If you ask any Swede or Norwegian about the Swedish Chef in Muppets, they will tell you that it sounds more like some kind of "hurdy-gurdy" speak than actual Swedish. Then again, it is more like a metaphor for how English-speaking people experience hearing spoken Swedish for the first time. 😆😂
Would you do this to one of the music videos from Heilung?
I'd like to hear your take on some of their interpretations of scaleic poems and many other old- and protonordic finds
hi doctor Jackson!)
@5:30
Sounds like he says "en fara ék".
@5:58
"Þegar várinn er kominn ok blóðit mitt vermist"
Hollywood gets few things right in many or most “historical” films. That’s almost an oxymoron. 😳😉🤷🏻♂️. Language just has to sound “good” but not authentic nor historically accurate. Other channels have remarked about how inaccurate i.e. “bad” the costumes are in most “historical” movies. Many times the accuracy of costumes are off by centuries. So if they are so careless with costumes then accurate language is going to be even less important to the Hollywood types.
@@Valerio_the_wandering_sprite that’s basically it!
Yees more of this.
I love that they are at least trying, but of course wish they cared more to get it closer to accurate.
10:08 Probably because that actor is Swedish, Gustaf Skarsgård.
11:50 That "mitt" did not sound Norwegian at least, she said like "mett".
Dr Crawford! Which modern Icelandic resources would you recommend? I am currently using Linguaphone. Searching for something else. Could you share? Any podcasts or easy reading
I used to watch this show all the time and now that I see it analysed it is just stunning how bad the Old Norse is. It’s just like how Google Translate was a few years ago. It’s not the actors’ fault, they did their best with the scripts and coaching they were given and it’s still impressive since it’s not their first language even though what they got for it is obviously far from ideal. Some of them actually are Scandinavian but others are Australian, Canadian and British.
The "Norwegian" actress is actually Canadian. Think she only spoke Ukrainian for the first few years as a kid.
Katheryn Winnick! She is a very skilled martial artist, having opened several schools and taught it for actors also.
(Trivia, she's banned from entering Russia as their reprisals against sanctions .. bet she's sooo upset about that... /s )
That might explain the almost Slavic accent she had at one point in this clip.
11:35 That's Katheryn Win ick a Canadian actress.
Glad you constructively deconstructed the Hollywood myth language eh My HOTVET Norway ancestry is a daunting prospect to learn Norwegian since grandpa died when dad was very young. His language did not get passed down, into my Cree family. I am digging into runes younger Futhark Norwegian style etc It Is a rewarding pass time. That has sparked my daughters interest now. Thank you for the posts eh
Lol the audacity and/or ignorance of some people. Language experts like Dr Crawford are exactly the people who would know best about myth and such stuff. Of course, there is a spectrum of expertise with linguists concerning history, myth and other side-fields of their respective science, but pretty much you're either a historian that has to know the language to study the specific history, or you're a linguist and you have to study the direct prime-sources of the respective language which will contain mostly history, myth and poetry about that culture/ people. Either way, what other experts are there that would know better than people like Dr Crawford
That backdrop
The mountains of Colorado certainly look very scenic and picturesque, at least from the viewpoints we are shown.
Blows my mind that they’re probably Google translating words instead of hiring an Old Norse professional
Fair point, but Jackson Crawford did mention that producers of films or games do not want to pay more than $200 for accurate translation skills (maybe an example for any translation work), so we should keep in mind that the producers do not set aside a budget for getting the translations entirely accurate.
so doc, are you ever going to make a video on the oera linda codex ? Or is that one a tad bit to controversial ? :D
vikings is a very goffy show i only watch it when theres nothing else to watch.Also very few actors who are from scandinavian countries i think its 3 or 4 people in the show . In the clips theres only one from scandinavia.(floki's actor just look it up ) Its mostly americans,canadians,british and australians
Wow uh… I watched this episode last night. Such a weird coincidence
I cared little for the History Channel "Viking" show. I was wondering if you can do some explanation about the Norsemen tv show. It is a great comedy and I'm sure you will find a lot of historical fact, myth and inaccuracies there, while laughing out loud.
Anyone know who he’s referring to at about 3:00?
Kathryn Winnick is Canadian. 😬
My man worked on Frozen?
I admit Vikings is a guilty pleasure of mine...😅
Mine too I must agree I could watch Katheryn Winnick read the phone book and would not care LOL but it's even funnier when I explain to people Loðbrock wad a nickname roughly translated to Shaggy breeches... that's priceless... Because most of them have thoughts of backless chaps to be polite
Do you have a windscreen? Haben Sie ein Windscreen?
Always nice to know when the movie language is a smattered mess of languages and time.
I understand that the Norwegian actress was using too much of her own native language characteristics for the Old Norse, but my question is: Who is to say pitch accent was not a thing in at least Old EAST Norse or Old Danish?
Katheryn Winnick is Canadian, but her family is from Ukraine- She's as Norwegian as Tom Cruise is Mongolian.
@@reneedailey1696 Thank you for the chuckle. Very good mental image, and a nice point.
@@reneedailey1696 Is that so? Pardon my ignorance. Wow.
@@iberius9937 Don't be sorry!!
She DOES look very Nordic- Honestly, given how the Vikings DID go to what is now Ukraine to take slaves, it makes sense!
Where did you film this video, Dr. Crawford?
Days of our lives with beards gets it wrong again..
almost as fun as bad lip reading versions
Which pagan guru are you referring too?
Very curious myself...
@@Aangkai same 😅
Norse magic and beliefs maybe
@@Sideveien just had never seen NM&B ever take shots at anyone like Crawford.
Maybe arth. He is pretty silly and annoying.
This is going to sound a little negative. I do get what you are saying. What is old norse dialect ore modern Icelandic. As a dane, i do understand most of it, especially when written. For us here in Denmark, when it comes to understand old norse language ore Scandinavian language's, it very much comes to where we are from. People from the main "land" often understands the different language's. Im from the northern Denmark, you cant really go any further. We often master and understands many of our own dialects here in denmark but also many of the other nordic languages.
"Really annoying pagan guru dude"😂 haha Im intrigued! Anyone knows who this is or what their account is called?
yes... whos the victim of the good doctor
Norse magic and beliefs?🤷♂️
Hi Jackson, in your translation of stanza 144 Havamal you don't translate Skal ast 'must' rather them. So if Skal is present in these lines of the stanze is that word 'them' with the inference on you 'must know how to' alongside 'do you'?
I think it's rather that "skal" is not directly represented in the English translation.
Ie, it seems to me that the alternative, more direct, take would be to go with something like "how you must" instead of "how to".
@@hawk_7000 that's actually a very good take on that stanza.
@@annatraustadottir4387 no, in his Wanderers Havamal'
@@annatraustadottir4387test
@@annatraustadottir4387do you know how to test them
Honestly *sigh*, I'd rather have dialogue spoken in an overenunciated manner, even if it's an ancient language, than mumbled or between mouthfuls of food. I understand the latter is a more "realistic" approach to how people tend to naturally talk, but I franky don't give a damn. Film is but a reflection of real-life, and can only be SO realistic. I want to understand what the $@$ the actors are saying. Is that so much to ask? Apparently it is, like everything else in @#$ Hollywood and TV. Damn.
Fair point. I agree, especially when it comes to languages we would like to understand better, based on their effect on local history and the world of today. As I understand it, based on Jackson Crawford's mention in this video, it is usually because the producers do not set aside a budget for accurate language and proper enunciation, as long as the story they are telling comes across to the general audience in a simple manner.
Jackson's had enough of y'all's pretendin' and is out for blood!
I died of second hand embarrassment watching these clips. If you aren't going to do the language right, why do it at all? The audience would have been perfectly happy watching this scene in English or whatever was the primary language of the filmmakers.
Not to mention that the actors are muttering. Film making has gone downhill.
I'd rather they speak modern swedish, norwegian or icelandic than butcher the old norse.
So, the show is an ok way to get a smattering of different modern Scandinavian languages? lol
Well, if you include Icelandic, that would be Nordic languages. But yes, it sounds a lot like some sentences are built similarly to how Norwegian/Danish and Swedish (Scandinavian languages) build their sentences, albeit quite a few pronunciations are similar to modern Icelandic, at least based on what Jackson Crawford told us in this video.
The very norwegian woman is actually american xd
French- Gaia Weiss was born in Paris.
@@reneedailey1696who wait i just couldnt see her lol
Having watched the entire Vikings TV series and enjoyed it - it's ridiculously inaccurate in just about every possible way. The clothing is hilariously bad and looks like it was inspired by leather wickerbaskets, they never wear helmets, historical events are chopped up and mashed together, historical characters are nothing like how they were described in written sources. To be honest, you can tell the characters have a pretty modern sense of morality, not really indicative of how people think and act in actual Old Norse texts. And yes, the language is a total mess.
I mean heck, they describe historically Danish-Swedish characters as Norwegian for no real reason.
Personally, I treat Vikings as a historical fiction, really as historical reality TV very, very, *very* loosely based on real history. When you can look past how insanely inaccurate it is, I think it becomes enjoyable cause for what it's worth, the actual characters are in my opinion well written.
The soundtrack slaps too. The opening credits theme is a bop and nothing will ever change that.
P.S. That guy who says "I have agreed to fight" if you weren't aware of who that is - that's Ragnar Lothbrok. That character who you said pronounces Old Norse consistently is Rollo the Norman. In this show they're brothers. Later they have King Harald Fairhair and Halfdan the Black - as brothers, not father and son. Yeah this show really just does whatever it wants. Especially towards the end.
In the scene there is only one Scandinavian actor. Gustav Skarsgård, Swedish. The rest is from English speaking countries. The "Vikings" stories is neither true to the sagas or neither try to be historical correct. They are just made made up and the language is too. But it works for entertainment.
Isn't there some valid criticism in regards to your mythological takes tho Dr. Crawford? I mean in your video(still up) about 9 realms you make it appear as if the 9 realms we read about are related to the 9 worlds commonly listed on pop-culture sites. This is despite 9 realms never being mentioned in relation to these overwordly locations like midgard. And I think you know this because you don't cite anything in that video like you normally do. If you did it would perhaps be more clear to the audience how little mention there are of 9 realms(mentioned about 3 times?), and how little we actually know of them. Perhaps the better approach would be to not guess what overworlds this might refer to, but rather examine the context of their mention, the use of 9 and what it may refer to. But instead you seem to weigh more towards the pop culture crowd here.
You also make amendaments like "Óðs mey" to "Odin's wife" in your poetic edda, and while I like the theory about these two deities being the same, is this not an overstep? The stanza here clearly refers to Freyja, as its referencing the Builder story we hear in the prose edda. And even if we did treat them as the same we run into poems like Lokasenna where they appear as two different deities at the same place.
There is also some criticism around your videos like "Norse Gods' Names in Elder Futhark" where I'm able to spot at least two blatant errors: "Berserkiz" which should be Bersarkiz*(sarkiz -> sęrkʀ -> serkr), and "hōnjiaz" which should be hōnijaz* if anything?
You are indeed miles ahead of anyone on this forsaken videosharing platform, but I know I personally would've prefered a bit more caution making mythological statements when that requires its own study of not just the norse corpus, but also comparative material. Take a video like this, it's a golden opportunity to teach people the correct way of approaching an good translation into old norse, like you did in the Kensington video.
Much love ♥
Who is the annoying pagan guru guy? I'm looking for people to troll.