The Northman (Norse Expert's Thoughts)
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2022
- Thoughts on The Northman (2022) from an Old Norse specialist (note: not a movie critic).
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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Jackson Crawford’s translation of Hávamál, with complete Old Norse text: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Hava...
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It's so weird having a Cowboy teaching you about Vikings.. but the good doctor does appear to know what he's talking about
I think I prefer it to the grown men who dress in costumes for videos or wear medieval tunics around. Like, you can be interested in history and not be a weirdo.
@@padraigmaclochlainn8866 We like your spirit 🤘🏻⚔️⚔️🤘🏻
@@dash4800 Love Jackson, but he’s definitely a bit fancy dress himself. Lots of Marlborough Man posing with guitars and stuff. It’s just he talks about Vikings instead of the Old West 😂
Do you suppose somewhere there's a guy with very long hair and a long beard, wearing animal skins and a helmet, who's an expert on cowboys?
The most credible source nowadays for sure.
I know it pained you to descend the mountain and enter a movie theater, but thank you. Love your takes on this stuff.
Bingo
Jackson had a really difficult time trying to explain that he's not a viking weeb
Right, it's obvious he's a cowboy weeb.
yeah he's not a viking-a-boo
@@DonutKop swedeaboo and thoraboo are the coined terms
@@brynjolf3974 knew there was a word for it! thanks
Nothing wrong with that.. I used to be obsessed with Norse myth/culture when I was a kid, and grabbed up as many books as I could in libraries... It helped with a comic I was also drawing as a kid (now redoing) called, "Sentient Armament" ^_^..
I was incredibly saddened by what you said there at the end. Your work does matter! It was what got me into Old Norse history and saga literature, which I’m currently studying on a study abroad programme in Norway. Not only that, but your content was also one of the first things I discussed with my partner that made us bond (my first gift to him was your translation of Havamal) so it also has a personal significance to me. All I’m saying is, your videos and your books have had a huge impact in popularising the linguistic/literature side of the Viking Age, and it’s a lot better content than any tv show or movie would be.
I feel the same way. He is a "gateway" to Old Norse history for a lot of people now a days. He definitely was for me.
YES. See! Jackson Crawford, you have a HUGE impact!
Where the hel can I find a woman that would give me Havamal?! I'm in NZ. I already own a copy and MANY other books but it's terrible lonely being a lone Úlfhéðnar
As a swede, it makes me so happy to hear an american say ”Alexander Skarsgård” properly! The ”Å” is very important
swedes, the ultimate mumblers of north
danes are way worse tbh@@jablanbukvovski
@@FasherProductions you are both equally awful
I gotta say, I find your take on not just this movie, but pretty much any Norse related mass media to be incredibly refreshing. The fact that your not drawn to this era by weapons or armor definitely or by fetishizing the period is one of the main reasons I watch your channel.
Yet he's sponsored by Grimfrost "For the Modern Viking" LOL
@@adammiller4122 never got an ad but I hear you. It’s just monetization to pull more attention.
@@adammiller4122 Yeah, I find it incredibly ironic that, in the middle of a very professional and historically accurate video, there is an ad of something edgy inspired by the show 'Vikings'. Still, I suppose it's because of money
@@Lewisfan1 They sponsor him because they believe in what he is doing. Johan Hegg like most scandinavians into their own culture want it to thrive and reach as many people as possible so that it can't be forgotten like christianity tried so hard to make so. Stop being so overly critical and rude about something you know practically nothing about just because it rubs you the wrong way
Take a chill pill
Lol definitely. My first thought when I turned this on was that he was gonna be some kind of paleo influencer or something selling romanticized history and he's like: "I know little about the weapons or costumes. I don't even particularly like the Norse I just find them interesting. At best if I traveled in time I might be able to talk to these people a little before they kill me for having weird clothes."
I disagree. You have a great impact on people's understanding of these things, maybe even greater than a movie like this. You do a fantastic work.
Totally agree
I concur.
I think you will be remembered, and sited more than a film.
Films date fast, and nobody trusts tham anyway.
Completely agree. The movie was entertainment, and I enjoyed it as such. But not where I'd go to learn about history. Dr. Crawford is a tremendous resource for so many.
I am a SFF writer. I hope to end up fabulously wealthy doing this but I know damn well it probably won't happen, and am usually okay with that. (I use your videos to help me imagine a more "Norse" alt-history but is still a 1000 years derived). But I know 30 or so authors who listen to you as a source and their are another 300 I probably don't know. Know you are listened to and known and it is very likely you will influence something that matters in the larger culture. You may end up hating it, but you never know.
he's certainly enlightened me that's for sure
I was attending UCLA when you were teaching classes there. I was a dual major in Archaeology and Film, and had some elective credits to spare in both my senior year. I had to choose between your Old Norse class to go towards my Archaeology electives, and one on the American Westerns to go towards my Film electives. I chose the Western and my final was presenting a detailed criticism and analysis of filmmaking, themes, and cultural context of The Searchers.
Ever since finding your CZcams channel I've thought about how I should've taken your class instead, but now I think John Wayne's Ghost might've punished me as well.
Surprised he wasn’t teaching the class on Westerns too.
You did an analysis on "The Searchers"?
That's so cool, I'm currently also taking a class on The Western at the American Studies department of my university and we just got done talking about The Searchers last session! Such an impactful Western that also changed the genre of Westerns in the 50s up a bit!
Arguably the greatest western of all time; it’s funny I had a western film as literature course and I defended that film with every ounce of my being as no one else in there would. Been my favorite film as an adult over really anything else
Archaeology and film? Please find a way to get into the upcoming Indiana Jones movie set and slap some sense into them :)
Would you mind if I asked you how you're doing now career-wise? I'm an arch. major too and just want to know what jobs a Bachelor's will or won't get you, of if you have to remain in academia...
One thing I often tell my friends when discussing historical media is whether or not it feels *authentic* rather than historically "accurate". To me there's a big difference between these terms; something can feel true to an aesthetic or theme without having to cling desperately to the reality of the past as we understand it. This is why I really enjoy things like The Northman, or HBO's Rome, or Apocalypto - I know that experts can tear them apart like this, but they really do feel like the creators were deeply inspired by the eras in which they're set. For me that's often enough to enjoy something.
What makes me happy is that there were like 15 Viking/ medieval experts on set at all times. Robert wanted to make sure it was as accurate as possible (with a few changes like haircuts)
And being filthy? That's not accurate! They were super clean people.
@@michelleg7 I just got done watching the film. The only times anyone was consistently filthy was while doing work as slaves or fighting, both of which make sense. They clearly bathed regularly other than that based on how clean their clothes and hair were.
@@michelleg7 everyone is filthy at times. Especially slaves.
Then those “experts” did a piss poor job. Movie sucked and was not that historically accurate
@@user-mf2sj7rd6mSure
I loved this movie, but I have no interest in living like a viking, or seeing violence up close. I actually enjoy laughing at people who fancy themselves modern day vikings. I think the best things about the movie for me were the mystical, surreal bits. The visions, hallucinations, the draugr, and so on. The ravens at night were clearly an allusion to godly intervention, to me; the main character 'controlling dogs' seemed to be some supernatural trait of a berserker. In the end what matters to me is the artistic experience.
I don't think you're bitter or jealous, and I appreciate your video. I watched the whole thing and I think it's fine to have different opinions on the movie.
"I actually enjoy laughing at people who fancy themselves modern day vikings."
I have this attitude toward most reactionary machismos who spend all day on the internet trying to signal their "alpha male" philosophy. They romanticize past eras like the Vikings or medieval Europe, not realizing they'd likely have their head lopped off by their next door neighbor.
YES!, thats exactly what i thought
All that matter is that two stood against many! That's what's important!
This movie was amazing and a total gem in an otherwise sea of garbage cinema that we have received in the last few years. Not everything in a film has to be historically accurate and expecting as much is ridiculous.
It's not about demanding everything be completely accurate from a historical perspective, and accuracy should always come second to making an artistically good film, but it is a reasonable thing to be curious about. Especially because Eggers does put a lot of emphasis on researching his movies heavily and getting the material culture, the look and feel, "right."
Plus, using a work of art as a jumping off point to learn more can be a lot of fun and a good way to introduce new people to a field. So while pedants who demand absolute accuracy can be tiring, I don't think that's the spirit people are approaching this with.
Lastly, I disagree that everything else for the last few years has been garbage. Hell just before The Northman was released the best movie I've seen in a year came out and has actually been successful, that being Everything Everywhere All at Once. There have been a few cinematic bright spots, I'd say!
I found it boring and hard to watch
@@chungbertflabbergast5995 I would expect from someone who researches so much for his movies, to at least know that Odin sacrificed his eye for knowledge, not for female magic, he didn't sacrifice anything to learn Seidr.
So you are into transgenderism and men replacing women? 8:30
@@cephalopodx7587 I don't know to whom you're addressing the question but on the off-chance it's me, the answer is yes. 10/10 for transgender people, rock on
Honestly, I paid 3 times to watch the movie and I'd pay more, it's amazing and I love it, so well made and directed with a good artistic vision, but I respect and appreciate your review and opinion Dr.
I am a Classicist, and I kind of have similar complicated issues quite often with film and TV. I just write them off as "variant" myths, usually, or my personal favorite "Scribal Error!". Like, "ok, this is just a new version of that myth that already has five versions, some written 400 years later and in a different empire," maybe this time written by an outsider, or a person with some kind of axe to grind (Caesar re: Britannia), but that ONLY works from a literary or religious approach, not as a student of history. So I think it depends on whether or not you see the film as a 21st century myth or if you think it's a slice of life historical epic. Or just a movie and therefore an artwork, not a piece of scholarship. A lot of possibilities!
@@dindranew.6808 You should see movies like you're being told a story by a court jester, embellishment, crass language/humor/nudity, unneeded blood and violence, and some tropes, all to make the audience enjoy it. The only time you should criticize media for things is when they go out of their way to tell you how accurate they are or that accuracy is the goal
I enjoyed it, but then again I'm probably at the very least a little bit of a Norse weeb....just a lil.
Thanks for giving in and doing this review, Jackson. I think I speak for many of us when I say I was extremely curious to hear your thoughts about this movie, given Robert Egger's attention to historical detail. (Not just in this, but also VVitch)
Very true. I was waiting for Mr. Crawford to review this movie.
And The Lighthouse
Historical detail like Vikings doing Hakkas and berserkers wearing wolf skins instead of bear skins ?
@@seanfaherty Great point, if they were berserkers instead of Ulfheðnar. And yes, some liberties were taken, as in most movies. But Robert Eggers puts in a lot of research. In VVitch, all the dialogue was taken from texts written from that time. And for Norsemen, Eggers had a historian on staff (Jackson does an interview with her). So yes, to your point, Robert Eggers does do a lot of research. Maybe you should adopt that for yourself.
@@mattbaker7305 were not the Ulfednar earlier ? and the hakka ?
This is exactly what I have been waiting for! Thank you, Jackson, for always providing great educational content.
Postscript: now I’ve watched all the way to the end, you won’t be forgotten. Your work is completely valuable. Your videos have inspired many, including myself, and my writing. You have left here a legacy that will endure.
I don't think there was any mention of "pure" blood or anything regarding race.
I think the line was "Safeguard your familial blood." meaning "Keep your family safe.", which makes sense in the context of Amleth being literally shown a vision of his family tree at the end of the scene, and which sets up his duty toward the end of the movie to go back and finish his revenge on his uncle in order to keep his children safe.
I think it was a pretty fair value to teach him as a kid, considering how dangerous, cruel, and savage the world was in the movie, especially since Aurvandill
specifically comments on noticing Amleth's innocence in the scene before the coming of age ceremony.
✊🏻✊🏾✊🏽✊🏼 💯
yeah thats how i understood it too
Aurvandill does call Fjolnir a half breed due to him Being a bastard.
@@hohetannen4703 Man that's some weak behaviour.
@@Reverendshot777 He’s right
I found the "Dancing Odin" scene with them around the fire to be brilliant, even if there was a lot of interpretation going on with gaps in our understanding.
I'm unsure how much it would have been common at that time period, but in any case it was a nice nod to the Dancing Odin cult that has probably been around Scandinavia since Bronze age times.
The "War Band" or "Mannerbund" or "Koryos" is a common thing among ancient European people from the Norse/Germanics, Celts, and even in early Hellenic and Italic peoples as far as I understand, as is dressing in bear and wolfskins during raids etc...
It was a tradition going all the way back to at least the late neolithic on the Pontic-Caspian Steppe where it was practiced by people who spoke Proto-Indo-European languages.
That’s immediately what I thought of. The wolf-boy cult bit seemed like they were trying to make a relatively reasonable assumption that the proto-indo european ritual had survived and adapted to that time. I didn’t see that as necessarily full on historically inaccurate, but more as a reasonable interpretation of something we don’t have evidence for. That part seemed alright to me, so long as you have the awareness of where they are pulling it from. If you watch any movie like this and just assume it is all perfectly historical and accurate… Well that’s pretty foolish.
@@BakaEngel Precisely this.
"what sacrifice do I have to make to the ghost of John Wayne!?" was not something I was expecting to hear when I started this video.
Also, I think a film (or series) based on a Saga like Egil's saga would be really cool and interesting.
Personally, I loved the movie. I didn't think it would be all that true to the original saga or any other saga, I expected it to have its own story to tell in the way Eggers & Co. wanted to tell it, more "inspired by" than "based on" the sagas.
I do appreciate you going through the effort of making this, though I can tell you don't much care for doing so.
You have more reach and impact than you think mate.
200k + subs is nothing to sniff at.
Thank you for your well informed and excellent top notch historical content!
Listening as I type. Your work matters a great deal. If you reach 100 people, 100 people will spread the word. You deserve your rightful place in schools or colleges teaching these valuable lessons.
The last time I was this early, Odin still had both of his eyes....
The last time I was erly alđhumbla way still licking the salt from yimir
Last time I was this early, Óðinn was still known as Wōden
Ha genius
I got very strong Beowulf vibes during Amleth's nightly raids on Fjolnir's settlement, with Amleth the Berserker taking on the Grendel role. I have to think that was deliberate.
I thought the same
You were quite right Jackson, it was filmed here in the north of Ireland. Thanks for the video though, I have been eager to hear your thoughts on it.
the annotations expanding on the original video show integrity and really make me a fan. just ordered your books, a couple videos and I'm impressed and delighted to have found your channel.
I think Rob eggers is a really thoughtful director in terms of him wanting his period pieces to be as authentic and realistic as possible. Now of course not everything is going to be like that with limitations of knowledge and experience, but overall the feel and tone of the film fit within what we know of Norse Vikings. Also just in terms of the norse afterlife we got probably the best visual representation of valhalla we will ever get
You mentioned that it didn't always look like Norway/Iceland - apparently most of the scenes were filmed in Ireland/Northern Ireland!
....which is fine. Some of these "complaints" are ridiculous and superficial.
Been waiting for this, thanks for taking the time!
Just found your channel after wanting to know more about the film. Looking forward to checking out the rest of your videos.
Fantastic movie, my soul is roused by the story and setting. Thanks Mr. Crawford for helping us to further our understanding of this section of the world and the time many of us are enchanted by, though our reasons differ slightly it seems. Much appreciated. I'm also glad my suspicion of the brutal sequence after the village is conquered was echoed in your video. The viking age seemed rough enough as it was. Though for an exaggerated movie effect I think it may have served a purpose showing just how far Amleth strayed from his fate.
Thanks to your lectures, I was able to understand the movie. My friends who didn’t know the background couldn’t understand it. This is really a movie for which you need a basic understanding to enjoy it.
Never stop. You are a treasure and do a fantastic service. Thank you for your hard work.
I never saw this movie but I am glad I watched this video anyways because I enjoy your content, and for what it's worth, I think a fair number of people appreciate how much you inform them about these topics. I certainly appreciate the honest way you talk about this stuff. There are too many people who misrepresent or misuse Old Norse culture, myths, language, etc., so you taking the time to educate people with good information on these subjects is very helpful. We need more people like you with expertise in this stuff who don't have an agenda and who want to help others understand Old Norse.
Thank you for all the work you do!
I'm honestly surprised the language was as off as you've explained. Getting language right for both The Witch and The Lighthouse were a really big thing to Eggers, makes me wonder if that was studio involvement.
It's kinda funny, the "I want to be a viking" people I know cried inaccuracy to a number of the things that were historically on the money. I don't know of this movie was entirely for that crowd either.
Yeah. The language used for the Northman didn’t feel as natural as it did for the witch.
I imagine this is because we have good knowledge of how 17th century settlers and 19th century Lighthouse keepers spoke from primary sources. No such primary sources exist for the early middle ages.
Teaching actors and actresses new languages is time consuming which is why most studios dont do it at all or dub it
Yeah i think that just comes with making a 80m film vs the much lower budgets he usually works with
@@SavageGordon I think Eggers original intention was for the whole film to be in Old Norse but the studio refused because he ‘isn’t Mel Gibson’
A lot of scholarly types hate movies giving false information on history but for me I've always thought of it as a great gateway to learn about a particular period. I watch a movie and then I can look into the actually history later and the movie can function as reference for what was authentic and what wasn't
Honestly the way I see it wasn’t that Jackson disliked it because of bad history per se, more that the bad history was the fact that the movie didn’t really show human beings. No smiling, laughter, standing around on the farm catching some sun, chatting it up with your Norse compatriots, taking a jaunt on down the river for a drink, etc. It was all just sheer brutality and grit. No real trace of humanity in the characters. He says he wants the movie to kinda wink at you and say “we’re having fun aren’t we?” but Northman didn’t really do that. It took itself very seriously and didn’t have any sort of humor in it. I would have to agree. I’ve seen it praised for not pulling any punches but it went too far in the opposite direction. May have been immersive but now the people are just caricatures of hate and fate and “viking spirit” rather than complicated people who do all sorts of stuff
Sir Walter Scott's poetry and novels were credited for firing up interest in history all across Europe, even though he wrote romantic stories with the details of which later historians take issue.
I seriously love your videos. Amazing backgrounds. Phenomenal delivery of knowledge. Incredible.
Thank you for your movie review, Doc! I appreciate your thoughts about the language, runes and story line! After hearing and viewing your serious side - I LOVED SEEING YOUR HAPPY LAUGHTER AND SMILE while contemplating your interaction with John Wayne's ghost! What a wonderful segment! Tack så mycket !! :)
I remember reading, regarding Hrafnsey, that that was supposed to be a ficticious island in the northern British Isles, i.e. somewhere around Orkney, Shetland, or maybe as far southwest as approaching Ireland. At least I think the point was that it wasn't too close to the Norwegian mainland, but rather a remote settlement
Ah, fun. There used to be a Norse settlement on what is now a sunken isle on a delta sand bank in Yorkshire; the sandbank is called 'hrafnseyr' (meaning raven-sandbank). It could be a reference to that island.
Please invite me to 4chong and friends, Sindre.
@@FriendlierFetus idk who you are
@@Sorgenfri0 Rude!
The stuff with the ravens and the fox were more magical elements- Which given your comments on how you're not looking to be enchanted, makes sense!
The ravens were meant to be Aurvandil's shade visiting his brother and wife and Amleth, and the fox was meant to represent the he-witch Amleth visits- I watched with the commentary, and that was Eggers' explanation.
Dr Crawford you have a very large impact in my life. I have decided to to go to school in old norse language and study the sagas as you did. I have bought all the books you have written and translated. One day I hope to meet you. So please know you have reached people with the years of study you have diligently subjected yourself.
Thank you for this video, I had hoped you'd comment on the film somehow and this was way more in depth than I dared to hope for! I'm an English language focused linguist and my knowledge of Old Norse topics is mostly limited to whatever overlap those have with the history of English, so I often find myself geeking over runes but not being able to appreciate the deeper nuances, so I'm very glad both to hear that the runes in the film are good and that this film doesn't necessarily expect too much of its audience but still has some 'shoutouts', as you put it. Thanks again!
After seeing The Lighthouse I was expecting something supremely weird from Eggers, and I don't think I was disappointed. I was pleasantly surprised with the amount of research and time taken overall to create an overwhelming environment and immersed feeling. I'm definitely one of the people who like that they got the clothes, and the weapons and tools correct. The rituals in particular of the Sedier and drinking the hallucinagen, and the fire in the woods ritual (which looked like a Beltane ritual with the crowns,but there wouldn't have been group sex normally) her finding the amanita moscara mushroom in the forest ( which may not have grown in iceland but definitely did and do in baltic areas) driving home that she's a witch or a shaman. Right off the bat with the pre battle ritual with the wolf skins and the dancing and chanting around the fire is a lovely portrayal of the Ulfhednar. They got so many things right when they could have just Hollywood-ized it and made it surface pretty. I very much enjoyed it
Thank you for making this video. I was searching for an academic review of the movie and feel lucky to have found your page. While watching the movie, I felt so many things didn’t ring true (even as a regular ol’ pleb who is uniformed about Old Norse anything). I think it was the lack of humanity that you articulated so well. The end of your video made me so sad though… maybe you won’t reach as big of an audience as The Northman, but you certainly reached me. Thank you again.
I imagine elder furthark was used on the sword deliberately since the helmet indicates that it’s a vendel era chieftain. Which doesn’t make sense in its own right since the Norse had not colonised Iceland at that stage. But the runes seem deliberate.
Yes!! I wanted to know thoughts from this channel! This is perfect timely!
The ravens at night were sent by Óðinn
Speaking of the cross-pollination between archaeologists, historians, and linguists, you might have a chat with Mary Valante. She's a historian in terms of the academic affiliation, but has done archaeology and works heavily in material culture of the Norse in Ireland specifically, but she also has the linguistic background to have both conversations.
You'll never be forgotten
Love this honest review- from the heart- what could be better??
I think you have more influence than you realize, not to worry!! Be true to yourself professor Crawford, thanks for your work🤠
I feel you articulated my thoughts about this film better than I could. Nice video. On a side note, have you seen the icelandic film Útlaginn? There's another video idea if you are willing to endure yet another viking movie.
The movie is on youtube!
Thank you for a well balanced and realistic opinion of The Northman. I learned a lot from listening to this. Love your channel!
Dr. Crawford, you published your books. I am confident they will live longer than this movie in terms of influencing our understanding of this period and culture. Really enjoy your materials and look forward to reading the translations you've made.
Dr. Crawford. You are amazing. Keep going. You keep the light of ancients alive. I love your stuff.
I know this might seem insignificant but the movie made me interested in actual old norse history and language, so you could say I found your channel because of the movie. Don't be so pessimistic about it.
The John Wayne skit sent me. Made this entire video worth it, in spite of how much you hate the whole movie-review thing. Thanks, Jackson :D
Thank you for your thoughts. Much apperciated.
Found your channel after looking for videos about Konsteki 11 (a prehistoric site with wooly mammoth 🦣 remains located in Russia). Love your stuff, looking forward to watching your whole "catalogue". Greetings from Ecuador 🇪🇨
You mentioned the talking skull as a big nod to Hamlet's Yorick, but another detail that I can't see as anything but a blatant reference is the large woven "screen" in his uncle's sitting room. The way Amleth hides behind it, and then later prepares to strike behind it assuming Fjolnir is hiding there seemed like a callback to Hamlet's Polonius being slain while hiding behind a curtain.
I'm glad you've said your piece and helped people think more about the film, even if I disagree somewhat with your personal opinions. But that's the thing with personal opinions, everyone has their own. Your professional opinions are very informative though!
The John Wayne bit genuinely made me cackle hahaha, and I must say I really appreciate your perspective. I feel I've learned a lot from you and your channel. Thank you so much for sharing your take on this film, Jackson.
Mate, I thought the same thing!!! You incurred the wrath of The Duke - nice one, love what you bring
I loved this movie, and I loved your take on it.
Always a treat to hear you rant about modern miscalculations and expectations in how it relates to the past in pop culture.
i really enjoyed The Northman and thought it was an excellent depiction of the period and the people even fi it still takes dramatic license especially when compared to other modern depictions of Hollywood Vikings.
Also i thought the burial mound scene was a nice little nod to Conan the Barbarian
Thank you for giving your input. I really appreciate your opinions on these things.
Sir, I respect your honesty.
Dr. Crawford, from 37-44:50 thank you for clarifying the grimness and lack of morality the movie seemed to portray was excessive. As a history buff but not a formal scholar in this area I was very suspicious.
Everything seemed too grim to be plausible for a society that appeared to have a strong sense of humor (even if it was weird/twisted/strange by modern standards) and wit. Even Egil's saga appears to have a bit of twisted humor as he tells the slavers his name before burning them alive as a final courtesy.
Bro you just said this was too grim to properly represent Nordic/Viking culture and then mention a story where people are burned alive? Lmao
Well, the tale was meant to be dark. The shoving of the draugr’s head on his behind, the way he says the “puppy has grown” when killing the noseless guy, the way he fought the draugr… there were very subtle hints of humor not to break the immersion (something Dr. Crowford really dislikes, but as most of us see this, movies are a way to “escape” reality a little bit). I think they were very subtle and a little faint, but humor was present in the movie, just “washed down” to serve a darker tone in the narrative
I remember seeing Pink Floyd's The Wall and thinking "I like this but I don't love it and I can't put my finger on why." Because I was young and didn't really have the language for it.
Then years later I was watching the DVD with commentary from Roger Waters and he's like "the thing is; this movie is very dour. And it doesn't need to be, you need some humor in here to emphasize the humanity otherwise no one can relate to it." And not only was I like "YES!" I suddenly understood why John Carpenter's The Thing is a masterpiece. Because there's a lot of humor in it. Human beings make jokes when they're stressed out, it's normal.
I could sort of sense the dour nature of the film from the previews.
Absolutely. I think there might be one more step to it, even. Comparing two funny guys, I find that the themes and charachterization of the human experience of Hitchhikers Guide and Discworld to be pretty similar. But i always go away from Discworld feeling connected to people and bouyed up, whereas i get desensitized to Adams and disconnect with the humanity of the charachters. I think in addition to humour, there must be something else needed to emphasize the humanity, beyond even the writing style and relatability. There's something that can make us accept a rough world cheerfully. Maybe it's a balance of hopefulness and clear acceptance of the walls and monsters in our actual world?
Maybe I will see the movie. I find your descriptions and the spoken word from your mouth helpful in identifying the feeling tone of Old Norse. Had never heard the language, so I dont have a comparison, but I find it hypnotic. Thank you for opening the window. Most helpful.❤
Amazing video, thank you Crawford!
Thanks for the info and I would love to see straight up adaptations of the norse sagas and mythos as films or even series, I enjoy a lot your narrations of them and agree some of them would work marvellous as these art forms, I dont understand, Hollywood likes rehashing every famous franchise but they have 1000 years old stories to adapt for free and completely ignores them.
Btw John Wayne ghost was really mad lol, took down your cam and brought the heavier snow lol
I think this video hits on what a lot of people who are interested in the Viking Age miss when they say they want things like historical accuracy, or less Hollywoodization: the material culture is only one of several facets. Where's the poetry? The deep musings on life and society brought to song or stanza? The humor? The quiet spaces of everyday life in between all the superhero Michael Bay dramatization? Contemporary English instead of "old timey" English? These films are intended to shock, titillate, or feed bloodlust, and give an inaccurate portrayal of what actually made life both extremely difficult and worth living during this pre-modern period of our existence.
An addendum: There is no reason to suspect that the Vikings, if they had drums at all (which we have no evidence for), would have used said drums in exactly the way that they've been used by Hollywood for the last fifteen years in every action movie. Also, digital film is overly saturated with false color, it's too dark, and ironically, even though that's supposed to add to the atmosphere, it pulls me out of the experience, because true atmosphere comes from emulating a familiar space from the real world and making the viewer feel as though the movie scene matches something sensual from reality that the viewer can relate the scene to. More sun, more color, more light! This doesn't mean that we can't show the dreary, rainy weather that might have been characteristic of some of these locations for parts of the year, but a real rainy day is not a dark blue color, like something out of a video game. Digital coloring destroys visual nuance.
I completely agree. I was looking for more lyricism or introspection than I saw in the film. To be honest, it was a real disappointment because I expected more from Robert Eggers. Oh well, I need to be more cynical when going into films!
I feel like I am going crazy, because to me this was Eggers' most lyrical and introspective movie so far. An utterly heart-wrenching affair about the meaningless of vengeance, the fragility of life, etc...
I am so absolutely freaked out that people could watch this and come to the conclusion "oh, it's a movie for people who want to be Vikings"
How do you come to that conclusion when one of the main twists of the movie is that Fjölnir was not some two dimensional crazy greedy figure, but rather a man who out of love for his wife would kill his domestic abuser brother?
@@Wermutzel It's not an issue of the message of the film, or character depth, but the obvious emphasis on action, gore, mean-spiritedness/one-dimensional-ness among "villain" characters, and "badassery." These things are clearly taking precedence over poetry, ecstatic inspiration, complex political diplomacy, etc. When the "I want to be a Viking" crowd watches a film like this, it's not to take away wisdom, or to understand the socio-political context in which these people found themselves, or to get a glimpse into the bizarre and very un-modern approach to achieving a sort of spiritual fulfillment; they want the killing and destruction, without a care for the motivations behind the killing (beyond very superficial revenge motives), or all the nuance that would either abort or lead up to the violence.
Wonderful contextual setting in that you're talking about The Northman and we can actually watch it start snowing as you speak. Your words clearly carry great power, Jackson; use this power with care.
Down boy
great video, thank you very much! I agree completly!
Interesting that the linguistics doesn't "cross pollinate" with the Anthropology and Archelogy fields as you would think that those fields (aspects of living) would directly impact the formation and use of language.
Specialists spend half their time telling other people to stay in their lane, the culture doesn't support cross pollination.
This is quite typical of most fields of research. It also results in academics critical of their own field's past conclusions but taking in more or less unquestioningly the results of other fields which they need to include in their writing.
Depends, Linguistics is sometimes considered one of the four fields in American Anthropology, and sometimes integrated. I took some Linguistics classes in my Anth department.
Linguistics is literally a branch of anthropology, as is archaeology.
Outstanding and honest. Rare these days. BTW I love this movie.
Well, like others stated here, I am glad I get to learn about those times and languages from you more than from those movies (that I don't take seriously anyway). Was cool to see your take on a movie for once though :D
Feel bad I missed that stream on May 1st though. I should log into Patreon more often or something.
That comment/ metaphor comparing questions of accuracy to asking about the weather of a continent is actually the most genius way I've ever heard that put to words... how a statement can likely be accurate for one place, but not everywhere, and it especially over a timeline. I wish more people approached life, cultures, and human nature with that in mind!
Always important to remember with films like this: historical accuracy and a film's quality are *two separate and distinct things*. Just because a film has historical inaccuracies does not make it "bad".
Sometimes you certainly have to separate yourself from your academic background to enjoy media, though it can be very difficult. I find myself eye-rolling constantly at poor representations of biological science, and though I only took Greek Classics as electives, its still hard not to be frustrated by adaptations that just butcher the material.
However, one of my Greek profs in my final year of undergrad had watching parties of I, Claudius, and even though it took quite a few liberties (notably with Livia's involvement in the deaths of multiple heirs) he relished the dramatic display of the characters brought to life. It helped me recognize the merits of material better, even if its not perfect it still may be appreciable in the cinematography, acting, atmosphere, etc. That being said ignorance really can be bliss as it's so much easier to enjoy something from a field you don't understand and don't constantly notice glaring holes within.
Yeah exactly, you haven't suspend your disbelief to enjoy things sometimes
Thanks Dr Crawford, got to appreciate the spirit of J W.
Thank you for the great content, time and all of your efforts! We are lucky to have an expert giving back to the community.
In the Northman movie/trailer the Valkyrie looks like she is wearing braces. This is only a misunderstanding. At 2:09 of the Northman trailer, the Valkyrie has modified teeth. A form of teeth tattoo and only worn by certain members of society.
A finding discovered 15 years ago. Mostly found on men. The Valkyrie however is associated with a different gender, different world and a servant of war.
The teeth were filled using a black or red resin from trees. Some Vikings would file horizontal grooves across the front teeth. Sometimes one, sometimes several. The Valkyries teeth depicts one or two that are chevron (V-shaped) while the others are mostly horizontal lines.
For more information on the practice please check out Neil Price, a archaeologist, how has written several books on the subject.
I am admittedly a massive fan of the film, it's become one of my favourites for various reasons but I will say, as a writer myself who enjoys creating norse themed works, your channel and my own personal study into the literature of this period inspired by your fantastic work has been far more valuable than The Northman will ever be to me. You're 100% right that we focus too much on the violence and depravity of the past these days and forget the humour and love that has always been present and makes us equally human, and that mix, a mix that is ever present in the sagas and eddas is something I will always try to capture, almost entirely because of how your work draws attention to it with these videos and the way you approach translating the literature of the era and region.
So basically, while yes, the film has had an influence on me in how to present a darker tone so to speak, thanks to your work, it's something that I know wasn't all that the viking age people were about.
That being said, the stories have always been about the violent and spooky parts. It's a common Indo-European tradition to tell spooky stories to children around a fire, except those spooky stories used to be certainly impregnated with supernatural elements, but based on the stories of soldiers, conquerors, or common criminals. Even when the society around them was relatively happy and had a positive outlook on life.
@@bacicinvatteneaca oh I’m not saying my stories don’t involve violence and spookiness, and more that I have a constant awareness that human stories have that as well as the other things that are often neglected.
@@danieldyson1660 yeah, I'm sure that, although the core elements of those stories were entirely grim, the narrator would generally make light of the situation based on the response of their audience
The movie does allude a lot to what/how people believed back then. The gods ever-present just out of sight. When I saw the ravens gathering around the window to draw Amlóði's attention to Guðrún it definitely felt like it was supposed to be supernatural didn't feel weird at all, same thing at night. Someone or something is tampering with the tapestry of fate and ensuring a certain outcome, nudging Amlóði along towards his ultimate death. In the end he is his own undoing, he is beholden to his oath and his fate. The subtitle of the movie 'conquer your fate' turns out to be ironic.
Meh the movie is overexaggerating alot for dramatic effect. I do feel we do attribute alot towards viking culture that maybe wasnt like that. It doesnt reflect the viking mentality, imo, but it worked as a fantasy movie. Some of the scenes were just awesome. But the movie is clearly doing the same things like many other viking movies did. (except for the magic part)
@@mustplay7212 Like what? You give 0 examples.
Dude this video had way more of an impact on me than the actual movie. Thank you for making it.
I could not stop hearing every H you pronounced after you showed your notes on “Where”. Awesome video thank you!
Love this honest take on a cinematic piece by an academic. Funny enough, I too noted the nocturnal raven activity and thought that was a bit uncharacteristic. Otherwise, I enjoyed the film for what it was, a nice entertaining piece worth a few hours of my time.
Well they're clearly not mundane ravens. They seem to follow him from the east, they harrass his mother and untie his bonds after he was caught. Being active at night is the most normal thing they do.
I didnt get the impression that they were normal ravens either. They clearly seemed to be mystical beings in nature, maybe following Amleth until it was time to play a role in things. Same with his connection with the Gray Fox as well as his connection with his own inner wolf.
I love Jackson's content but I feel he was being too focused on academics and not really seeing the entire film for what it was: a fantasy story.
It's mythological dude
Animal totems play a big part in this movie, and Norse belief systems as well. The ravens were clearly supernatural, and could function 24/7. Also Amleth's uncle, and men with him were fearful of the ravens when they came in to get Amleth, and ran away in fear. I'm sure they wouldn't do so if they were just natural ravens. What do ravens represent in Norse religion, and mythology?
The ravens are VERY CLEARLY Amleth's father's spirit. I do not understand how you could watch this movie and not get that simple concept.
The Northman is an awesome movie!
Thank you for your thoughts on it; it helped me understand the movie better, and hate it less.
i thought it was so bad I almost left a few times. I couldn't get into it. I think the only think that made me stay was the landscapes and my nostalgia for Iceland :D (and the general aesthetics; but definitely not the story, the dialogues, or the characters).
So thank you again for this video, and your fantastic channel in general
You are one of the best I mean the best people who know the ways know the information of the old stories and it’s amazing. Regardless your human and you just should know brother your amazing at what you do, and only do it if you love it.
Very informative - and hilarious. To be fair to the movie though Jackson, I feel like you were taking it a bit like it was an attempt at realism, but I don’t think it was at all. It was meant to be Legend or Myth. That’s why they spoke in Old Timey language, not modern vernacular. It wasn’t supposed to be like a fly on the wall view of real time events. It was supposed to be the telling of a tale of ancient times, with magic and gods. More Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones. That’s why I don’t think they were bothered about being geographically accurate with locations in Iceland, or Norway, or whatever. You were trying to map it out to the real world in your head, but I don’t think that was what they were trying to achieve. It was supposed to be mystical and mythical, not real. The same with the ravens being out at night. It wasn’t supposed to be about real ravens and what real ravens really do. It was magic. Great to get your insight on the runes and language and all fella. Thanks!
Edit: Wow - that was some existential shit at the end man. I think you actually have more influence on the understanding of this era than you give yourself credit for. Yeah, you won’t hit the masses in the way popular culture will. But anyone who is interested enough in finding out about it to hit CZcams and watch some specialist videos will be directed to your channel. That’s how I found you - being referenced on other Viking focused channels. So people who care more will quite likely see at least some of your stuff.
I think most of the language things where people were saying things differently was because the cast and the people working on it behind the scenes were in large part from the nordics as well. For Alexander Skarsgård saying Valhall when he is Swedish makes sense because he knows the actual word in Swedish. Also his character has been hanging out with swedes raiding eastward for a long time so it even kind of makes sense in character. We know that icelandic is probably the closest to what old norse sounded like, but considering danish and swedish are on a different branch than norwegian and icelandic, it's not necessarily true that the pronounciations that we think are right for the sagas are the way all the people in the nordics spoke the language at that time. So while I agree it was confusing. I as a person from the nordics understood why they all had such different accents even though it didn't make a lot of sense.
I just watched the movie tonight and I loved it. I'm not a history buff and generally I'm indifferent to viking stuff, but I love a character journey. Thanks for all this great insight, and I guess if this movie did one thing better than anything else, it's most likely getting people interested in the history.
Interesting comments. I love the reflectivity. I really appreciate your thoughts on modern sensibility and morality imposed on movies and the audiences desire to be immersed in a different time period.
Wouldn't you all consider it a problem that the dark & gritty world view is supposed to represent the Viking age now? If I told people that Zack Snyder's MAN OF STEEL represents Superman, that would certainly be a misrepresentation.
No because so many movies do it these days there is no point to harping on it. It's like dogpiling on capeshit, everyone already knows and at this point its become so normal that it's seen as laborious to even discuss it
@@victorkreig6089 Oh wow, I could really feel your pain reading this.
On your closing remarks, I want to challenge your outlook. The level of expertise you've attained isn't because you spent the amount of time to make a movie, but because you've made it your vocation. The fact that you've invested the time to truly learn about this culture impacts our ability, and the ability of the world, to remember. For people to truly understand Norse history would take such an incredible amount of time to balance alongside other commitments, not to mention Norse history is competing with every other period of history, as well as present events, fictional worlds, physical vocations, and a multitude of other things. However, by making videos like this, by doing deeper research, you enable people who have an interest to use the internet to find out more in the little free time they have, and for this information to be preserved throughout time. Movies exist as self-contained stories to entertain for a few hours and no more. They are extremely valuable, but the ability to teach people about these cultures is limited. They can satiate a very surface-level interest but for those who want to know more they won't scratch that itch. Because they are more contained and have a dual purpose of simply entertaining, they can reach a wider market, but more detailed information that you provide impacts in a different way. It's like fast food versus a restaurant. Fast food can provide a break from the norm but a restaurant will provide something a lot richer and more interesting. In terms of the number of patrons and revenue, fast food will win out over restaurants, but that's not to say that fast food has more impact on people's impressions of food. If you value knowledge, whether it be in science or history or anything, an investment of your time into learning more is always worth it, and documenting this information ensures the impact is more substantial and will continue to be impactful, directly or indirectly, into the future.
When your tripod fell over, I had the same thought. XD On a more serious note, I'm a writer and teach creative writing at a small campus in Oklahoma. I've written some about the pre-Christian Norse period, and having done so, I really appreciate your thoughts on this film the some of the problems with the expectations of audiences. When I did write about that period in grad school, I kept running into cultural disconnects and audience expectations that made it an odd challenge to write my story. I'm not complaining; I certainly learned a lot from the experience. But it was jolting to find out what my audience would baulk at and could be a challenge to write an authentic period piece that also worked for a contemporary audience. Thank you for talking about this.
One thing that struck me in the movie is that, when Amleth kills Fjolnir's son, he cuts out his heart. Fjolnir seems to treat this as a big crime (he almost seems to focus as much on that as the fact that his son was killed at all) and tries to find out what Amleth did with his son's heart. The impression I got was that his son couldn't pass on to the afterlife without his heart, or something like that. I'm curious if that had any basis at all in Norse beliefs.
Thank you for the review. I am just a history buff and a fan of the Sagas, not an expert in those fields. I however think this movie was a wonderful ode to the Sagas and I am not sure we are going to get another major movie that is truer to the Sagas than this one, at least any time soon. Yes there are liberties, errors and some things are not in the spirit of the Sagas, but there is a lot that was done right. With the references to what we see in the Sagas, like the knattleikr, the seiðmaðr, the spear catching, the haugbúi and the magical sword with the strict rules and themes like revenge and the rigid fate, we saw a Saga on the big screen. It was not perfect, I f.e. found it cheesy that they went to the volcano for the final fight. In the end though, if you don't like a movie you don't like a movie and I like a good western as well.
Not gonna lie, a lot of this felt pretty nitpicky. Personally I don’t think the locations not corresponding to real life geography or ravens being nocturnal really affect the experience, it’s supposed to be like a fairy tale and evoke imagery rather than be taken literally
It's fair for him to be nitpicky about things he's an expert on, as long as he doesn't expect the unwashed masses to know the difference between one part of Iceland and another. At the end of the day it's the overall emotional power of a movie that makes it work or not, especially one mostly steeped in myth.
I enjoy your lens on our modern retelling of stories. We often forget that language and literature inform the world view of the people living there. Historic accuracy is helpful but without getting into the whys of how people act, and that is seen in the literature.
Nothing like seeing a cowboy educate us Northmen about Northmen. You do a great job, Doc, Keep it up.
Haven’t seen the movie yet so I had to stop before the spoilers.