Ms. Marvel, One Year On: A Retrospective
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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My video on the way Ms Marvel externalises the internal:
• The Magic of Ms. Marvel
Articles quoted:
www.cbr.com/ms-marvel-boss-ad...
www.rollingstone.com/tv-movie...
www.denofgeek.com/tv/russian-...
Articles shown:
thedirect.com/article/brie-la...
www.thefandomentals.com/ms-ma...
www.forbes.com/sites/paultass...
www.thewrap.com/the-marvels-r...
www.vox.com/culture/2023/11/1....
ew.com/movies/movie-reviews/t...
www.wionews.com/entertainment...
(I think that's all of them! Comment with a timestamp if you spot one I've missed and I'll add it)
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:49 A vaguely chronological revisiting
18:44 Religion and culture
23:51 GOTTA GET UP, or, the over-stuffing
31:10 Irony and the cinematic universe
35:56 One year on
41:37 Conclusion & end
Ms. Marvel is an American web television miniseries based on the Marvel Comics superhero of the same name. It is the nineteenth television series in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the twelfth installment of Phase Four. The series is produced by Marvel Studios and was released on Disney+. Ms. Marvel introduces Kamala Khan, a Muslim American teenager growing up in Jersey City. An avid gamer and a voracious fan-fiction scribe, Kamala is a Super Hero mega fan with an oversized imagination-particularly when it comes to Captain Marvel. Yet Kamala feels like she doesn’t fit in at school and sometimes even at home-that is, until she gets super powers like the heroes she’s always looked up to. - Zábava
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And P.S., just to make it explicit - the tone here's more critical at times than it has been for some previous OYO videos, but that's only because there's so much potential here, so many flashes of brilliance. I want to be clear that all of this is intended to come from a place of appreciation!
Safe to say Iman Vellani's Kamala ranks up there with Florence Pugh's Yelena as the best MCU post-Endgame addition. Even The Marvels haters (the respectable ones, I mean) admited she was the best part of it.
Don’t forget about Kate Bishop!
Iman is awesome and while I don’t feel like the show did her justice, I am sold enough on her to want her back for another season and any movie they can put her in.
Yelena sucks. Florence put zero effort into that role.
@@calebmarmon1310 Ms Marvel would work great in a Spiderman Movie
I can say without hesitation that I only went to see The Marvels because Iman Vellani was in it, and there’s no chance I would have otherwise. And that I’ll pay for any project that puts Kamala, Yelena, and Kate Bishop in the same story.
I'm a huge comic reader, and so while for me, Ms Marvel was an amazing show, one of the most fun the MCU has given us to date, the effect it has had on the comics is to some extent unforgivable. For those who aren't aware:
Around may/june, I can't quite recall, Ms Marvel was killed in an issue of TASM. There's been some debate online as to whether this technically counts as fridging (when a female character is killed just to progress a male character's story arc or emotional development), I tend towards the no side of that debate because it wasn't about progressing peter's character and more about "progressing" Kamala's in a really stupid way.
In July, Marvel released Fallen Friend: The Death of Ms. Marvel, which is an incredibly touching and well written requiem to the character. It progresses through multiple "chapters" of the issue, starting with just her close, non superpowered friends at a mosque, mourning her. Then some of the lower level heroes she's befriended show up, culminating in Avengers like Tony Stark and other major characters like Doctor Strange attending (with those last two having a conversation where Strange explains why it would be dangerous and disrespectful to her memory to attempt to bring her back to life), and in the final pages showing us that Peter Parker is running late, as always, and he makes it just as her parents are leaving in order to tell them "My name's Peter Parker. Your daughter was my hero."
Now, as you can tell from the way I've discussed it, I really liked this funeral issue. It's still incredibly stupid that they insisted on killing Kamala and not even in her own book, but this funeral issue honestly made it almost worth it. And then, about 2 weeks after that funeral issue, Marvel announced something that made me wanna scream.
Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant will be releasing August 30th as part of the X-Men's Fall of X Line!
So yeah. As some of you may know, the mutants have been in a Golden Age of sorts over the last few years, both in quality of comics and in universe. Hickman wrote a huge status quo shift called House of X/Powers of X where the mutants established a new nation on the living island of Krakoa, as well as using a mutant circuit of 5 Omega level mutants in order to resurrect any mutant who had ever died. Over the next 4 years, they went through 3 major "eras" of comics, the Dawn of X, Reign of X, and Destiny of X, which all culminated on July 26th 2023 with the 2023 Hellfire Gala, which saw 99.9% of earth's mutants be presumed dead, while the few remaining were wanted by all governments on earth and hunted by the most dangerous group any team of X-Men had ever faced. The Fall of X had begun and ended in a single issue.
Now, before everything went to @#$% at the Hellfire Gala, the first few pages were dedicated to resurrecting Ms Marvel, and introducing her as a mutant. She was one of the few who survived the issue, and went on to feature in both the main X-Men line, and the aforementioned solo title introducing her as a mutant, and co written by Iman Vellani.
I'm incredibly glad that Vellani wrote for this. Despite how upsetting it is that they clearly just killed her to reveal she was a mutant in order to make her story more in line with the MCU, we've seen time and time again that Vellani is a huge fan of the comics, and the writing of the series has so far been strong. In addition, they're not retconning her inhuman origin entirely, but making her an Inhuman AND mutant (since she underwent terrigenesis before her x-gene manifested, the terrigen mist blocked it since terrigen is deadly to mutants). As of issue 3, she hasn't even unlocked her proper mutant power, though I have little doubt that issue 4 will do so in its finale.
Overall, it's just upsetting to see that Marvel's main priority for the comics is to make them mirror the MCU as closely as possible, even to the point of being willing to kill characters and then immediately announce their resurrection under a completely different line of comics just to follow through on that. Ms. Marvel's treatment in the comics, while admittedly always written and drawn well, shows just how much Marvel editorial still meddles in comics. There's no doubt in my mind that this will be remembered as Kamala's OMD, or maybe sins past is a better comparison. While it didn't retcon the core of her very character or completely assassinate it, it showed editorial meddling on a level so great that it completely killed any attempt to redeem it from writers.
Anyways, sorry for the long comment, but I just felt the need to let some people know about this. Kamala in the comics is so amazing, and to see her thrown around by editorial so sloppily just because of what the MCU did is really upsetting.
I mentioned in another comment, but Marvel doesn't understand why does people even like Ms. Marvel since they literally take her away from her neighbourhood in the big proyects that were intended to launch her into stardom, even the X-Men / Inhumans stuff is super obnoxious, for despite being part of a mandate...
Kamala's relationship to the Inhumans felt quite touching and different from the more gritty and radical aspects of the X-Men / Mutants, specially with her friendship towards Lockjaw and that sense of a modern fairy tale with the Inhumans' Royal Family that, to me, brought a very needed whimsey to Kamala's childhood, perhaps it could've been a good story if the shift from Childlike Fantasies as Inhumans to Harsh Teenage Reality as X-Men ocurred more naturally, but no, it was just everything Ms. Marvel wasn't...
The Neverending Comic Book Gonzo of Death-Resurrection-Big Event that Alan Moore criticized when mentioning how characters like Batman have a whole trail of ghosts behind them.
It isn’t fully about mirroring the mcu.
Comics have been adapting features of adaptations for years. harlequin is an example for dc
gonna be real - it was just bad, like saying average would mean sticking the landing where it didn't
episode one isn't that strong and the avoiding "hollywood filter" of other cultures is still there, its just the performative tokenism of the culture shown
her going to the party or that entire hulk scene doesn't empathize us to Kamala, SHES THE WRONG IN THE WRONG, she had a easy out and didn't take it like a spoiled child cause she did and then gets rightfully grounded which goes NOWHERE
i also wouldn't say they're good parents, like again they just left the country on a whim, why!? what happened to school, what time slot is this, and again that's expensive to go back and forth
even the personal stuff is bad in part cause the villains (the super wannabe shield cops) are cartoonishly over the top evil and its so obvious why cause that's the point, divisive group cause media is about shoehorning in its agenda to the audience so evil group is obvious and everyone else is "perfectly good" its boring and the clandestine aren't the opposite of it by also being to her cause their aliens technically
the weakest episode is ironically the partisian episode cause it was MEANINGLESS, like its A) rushed B) did nothing for the plot that couldn't of been a hand wave away C) the relationship of the two don't work cause they're meaningless side characters with no development D) agenda pushing
like showing a culture doesn't mean anything - this tiptoeing of the topic cause its a social topic is WHY they push it cause u feel its tricky to talk about, its not even slightly - its a point in history that's used to preach to the audience and probably one of the few reasons this character is now in the MCU with barely 5 years of history in comics
and the finale was a mess, from plot contrivance portal power punch to the meaningless enemies to the main boy just given a pass for lets be real him murdering a bunch of people simply trying to stop him and parents cheering as she's shot at, so much is dumb so much is wasted and so much is just bad
The original comic was written by a convert to Islam. The show was written by Muslims from Birth who were actual Desi
I agree with you but the Marvel Comics division is 100% to blame for those shenanigans. Don't let them off the hook.
I notice that people like episodes 1,2 & 6 best. I think it's more proof that the pacing and undercooked villains really dragged down the experience. Ms. Marvel is an awesome character and deserves better projects.
Yeah I’m in that camp. I also felt like it was a missed trick havjng Bruno suspect Karmon instead of Kamala. She can still be infatuated, but start to feel conflicted and all the good drama.
It just seemed like a weird choice that, like many other choices made Kamala less active in her own story.
I've always thought that the Ms. Marvel comics are at their best when they're the most removed from classic comic book gonzo and Marvel has no idea what even makes Kamala Khan such a meaningful character, specially given the projects they've attached her to like The Avengers GAAS, her Disney+ Show and The Marvels literally take her away from her neighbourhood for most of the story...
I'd have loved a Hey, Arnold!-esque story about Kamala Khan's ups and downs in her neighbourhood, with an urban legend sub-plot dedicated to The Inventor, over whatever they were trying to do with the Djinns, the bracelet and the pakistan ninjas.
@@michaelriverside1139 I mean they nailed her character but the series reeks of studio interference and late stage edits. Disney needs to let these projects breathe and do their thing.
The villains and story were the worst. But the story is also the most important part of, well, any story. The villains are manipulative, then get impatient for NO REASON and attack, then get a completely unearned redemption arc.
I read Kamala’s comic premier and kept up with them for a while, and have loved her character since. While the show wasn’t perfect, it’s depiction of Kamala and her family was spot on and very moving.
The Marvels is best described (IMO) as "fun," and Iman Vellani was a huge part of that. She's a fantastic actress and I hope she gets plenty of screen time going forward
It definitely felt like they crammed 3 seasons into 1 season. That said I still loved the series. It’s some of the best the MCU has given for years.
I think they felt the need to show her become a hero but also explain her power change and backstory, which is understandable considering how many ppl didn’t like her power change. Kamala’s x gene is the ability to manipulate the noor, the bangle gave her the ability to access it, sending her to the noor dimension by being a Quantum Band. Kamran’s powers seemingly come from the veil actually being inside of him, hence the explosions (which kamala can’t do), the more sharp and jagged hardlight structures and the more seemingly painful it is for him to use his powers (a lot of grunting when he uses them). Hope that makes sense
Speaking of power change, it was both because of reed richards and the marvels.
I mean in the comics, Kamala’s power explanation comes down to “magic mist engulfed me.” Which works if you’re setting up an Inhumans populated world like the cartoons or 2020 Avengers game. But since the movies never acknowledge Agents of SHIELD, that would never be plausible 😊
@@benwasserman8223 i know, this isn’t the comics
I unabashedly love this show, which is quite an accomplishment because it truly does have some glaring flaws, almost all of which have to do with the villains, who are some of the MCU’s very worst.
But Vellani as Kamala is instantly an incredibly compelling, charming, lovable lead performance, Kamala’s supporting cast are all endearing, the show is bright and colorful and feels like it’s directed with intent, and personally I’m someone who doesn’t at all mind the change to Kamala’s powers.
Getting rid of the clandestine with one episode left to go was a good move, because behind Loki season 2 the finale of this show is my favorite of all the MCU shows. It’s been so long since the franchise (or superhero movies in general beyond Spider-verse) really committed to a straightforward “normal person self-actual uses over the course of a superhero origin” narrative that seeing it done here with a cast I’d come to love just felt incredibly cathartic.
Don't some superheroes characters do what you just said about the straightforward normal person thing?
@@assassin8636 sure, but when’s the last time the MCU or even live action DC movie did it prior to this show? Ant-Man in 2015 comes closest, but even that is fudged slightly by him being a criminal.
A lot of great shows have glaring flaws. Many beloved shows from the fully episodic era of TV are full of inconsistencies and throw-away episodes created by overworked people on a time crunch to churn episodes. Things don't have to be great just to be good. They can be good with room to improve. And that's fine.
gonna be real - it was just bad, like saying average would mean sticking the landing where it didn't
episode one isn't that strong and the avoiding "hollywood filter" of other cultures is still there, its just the performative tokenism of the culture shown
her going to the party or that entire hulk scene doesn't empathize us to Kamala, SHES THE WRONG IN THE WRONG, she had a easy out and didn't take it like a spoiled child cause she did and then gets rightfully grounded which goes NOWHERE
i also wouldn't say they're good parents, like again they just left the country on a whim, why!? what happened to school, what time slot is this, and again that's expensive to go back and forth
even the personal stuff is bad in part cause the villains (the super wannabe shield cops) are cartoonishly over the top evil and its so obvious why cause that's the point, divisive group cause media is about shoehorning in its agenda to the audience so evil group is obvious and everyone else is "perfectly good" its boring and the clandestine aren't the opposite of it by also being to her cause their aliens technically
the weakest episode is ironically the partisian episode cause it was MEANINGLESS, like its A) rushed B) did nothing for the plot that couldn't of been a hand wave away C) the relationship of the two don't work cause they're meaningless side characters with no development D) agenda pushing
like showing a culture doesn't mean anything - this tiptoeing of the topic cause its a social topic is WHY they push it cause u feel its tricky to talk about, its not even slightly - its a point in history that's used to preach to the audience and probably one of the few reasons this character is now in the MCU with barely 5 years of history in comics
and the finale was a mess, from plot contrivance portal power punch to the meaningless enemeis to the main boy just given a pass for lets be real him murdering a bunch of people simply trying to stop him and parents cheering as she's shot at, so much is dumb so much is wasted and so much is just bad
@@marcusclark1339 I disagree
Yeah, I also found it a bit odd that they didn’t save the Pakistan / Candestines stuff for a second season. There’s so much cool, fun stuff there that, if not rushed and instead unpacked over six episodes, would be amazing! And it would’ve given time to finishing fleshing out all of the Jersey City stuff. I do remember hearing something from one of the show runners, feeling that, if they didn’t get the Pakistan stuff in right away, they might never get the chance. Which I get, but still! I would’ve loved to have Kamala’s Pakistani family, the Red Daggers, the Clandestines, the flash back episode, etc.-let alone all of the exploration of Partition and how it effected people and families through generations-all really have a chance to breathe!
Iman Villani is one of the best additions to the MCU since Endgame
In regards to the shared universe angle I still love the MCU's shared universe and I don't think the solution is just to can it completely, rather they need to go back to what the early phases did and tell self contained stories with little asides and wink and nod moments to remind the audience that this is a bigger universe. Instead of making connectivity the point tell interesting stories then come up with ways to mash the heroes together at a later date.
I forgot how intensely funny the haram halal hat gag was, my sister and I were genuinely goblin laughing. The whole Djinn controversy missed me but I picked up Square Enix's Avengers and remember liking Kamala there, and her just kind of being a mutant/inhuman made a lot more sense? The ancestral connection thing is weird and they even kinda backtrack at the end? Messy. A lot of the show is messy.
I always felt like the Pakistan side of things should have been its own season. We should have stayed in Jersey for the whole first season, seeing the questions we'd answer in Pakistan in season 2. But, I suppose the worry is that we'd never GET a season 2. And that would have been a shame given how much this did to spotlight a period in history a lot of folks without direct ties know nothing about. I just wish we could have had a full, expansive series that had the room it needed to breathe.
My biggest nitpick is that making her powers more akin to Carol really detracts from her character journey of becoming her own hero by permanently linking her to Carol.
I agree with your take on the “season 2” idea. I remember discussing with my wife that Ms Marvel season 1 should have stuck with the Jersey city/high school/figuring out her powers and sometimes poorly. Then deepening the lore in season 2. I still really enjoyed the show but that’s Vellani and her friends and family mostly.
yeah, i really liked Ms Marvel mostly on how perfect Iman Velani and the rest of the cast were. i wanted more episodes sandwiched between episodes 2 and 3 of her as Ms Marvel doing the sneaking out to fight crime teen superhero soap opera, with some of Ms Marvel's goofier villains from the comics like the Thomas Edison Bird clone, punk electro Kaboom, and the Canadian Ninja Syndicate.
Similar to Shang-Chi, I really think it should’ve focused on her being a Pakistani-American and her community’s struggle with Damage Control as the main antagonist rather than a pivot to her homeland. I appreciate the highlighting of history but I don’t think it’s worth it for what I thought were quite weak antagonists when the other threat was much more real and relatable.
I loved this show, glad to see an actual review. 🎉
Iman Vellani said in an interview that she wants the noor dimension to be the quantum zone, which I think it's interesting. 👀 She also said Kamran isn't a mutant but that makes no sense to me lol.
When I found out my dad was watching Ms. Marvel, I fully expected him not to like it. Maybe he would deem it too quirky or childish. But to my surprise, I heard him gushing about it to my mother and sisters. My family is Arab and Muslim, but my mom is from Pakistan, and we have all learned her language. My dad spent a portion of his years in Pakistan, as well, so he is fluent. He was more than happy to see a Muslim Pakistani superhero on screen, and he went on and on about the actors and the sets and historical elements present in the show. He loved it because it was his first time seeing himself represented in something as huge as Marvel, which my entire family has loved for a long time. It was honestly heartwarming to see him so happy. Representation matters. I think Ms. Marvel did a good job when it comes to that. Ofc it has its flaws, but I also remember crying after I'd finished this show because I felt represented as a Muslim with a desi mother.
I might be the only one who enjoys the fact that Ms. Marvel isn't an inhuman anymore. And, they made her a mutant?!😁😁😁
In some deleted scenes, it is explained that the noor can make wishes, which is how Aisha brought kamala to the past, and how najma sent the veil into kamran. That being said, most of the deleted scenes they released on disney+ as extras are from 3-5, which makes me think there were a lot of revisions, some of the deleted scenes not even fitting into the released episodes properly, and that probably led into the “underbaked” thing
Yeah, you definitely get the sense they were struggling to fit that middle stretch of the show together
Ms Marvel as a character is definitely one of the highlights in the MCU post-endgame, and even some of the pre-endgame stuff to be honest.
gonna be real - it was just bad, like saying average would mean sticking the landing where it didn't
episode one isn't that strong and the avoiding "hollywood filter" of other cultures is still there, its just the performative tokenism of the culture shown
her going to the party or that entire hulk scene doesn't empathize us to Kamala, SHES THE WRONG IN THE WRONG, she had a easy out and didn't take it like a spoiled child cause she did and then gets rightfully grounded which goes NOWHERE
i also wouldn't say they're good parents, like again they just left the country on a whim, why!? what happened to school, what time slot is this, and again that's expensive to go back and forth
even the personal stuff is bad in part cause the villains (the super wannabe shield cops) are cartoonishly over the top evil and its so obvious why cause that's the point, divisive group cause media is about shoehorning in its agenda to the audience so evil group is obvious and everyone else is "perfectly good" its boring and the clandestine aren't the opposite of it by also being to her cause their aliens technically
the weakest episode is ironically the partisian episode cause it was MEANINGLESS, like its A) rushed B) did nothing for the plot that couldn't of been a hand wave away C) the relationship of the two don't work cause they're meaningless side characters with no development D) agenda pushing
like showing a culture doesn't mean anything - this tiptoeing of the topic cause its a social topic is WHY they push it cause u feel its tricky to talk about, its not even slightly - its a point in history that's used to preach to the audience and probably one of the few reasons this character is now in the MCU with barely 5 years of history in comics
and the finale was a mess, from plot contrivance portal power punch to the meaningless enemeis to the main boy just given a pass for lets be real him murdering a bunch of people simply trying to stop him and parents cheering as she's shot at, so much is dumb so much is wasted and so much is just bad
@@marcusclark1339 WE GET IT.
I was really enjoying the show, especially the first episode and Kamala herself who was relatable (having ADHD myself and being a bit of a fan girl) and just overall being so endearing. I just felt the villains were underdeveloped and as a result underwhelming. I was confused when they became the baddies as they didn’t really have a reason to attack Kamala. They could have easily earned her trust as they were already doing, but then she was warned about opening the portal, and then the conflict would have felt more earned because there was a reason to fight back as Kamala would have to face a dilemma, to trust these people or not.
Part of why Spider-Man have been constantly loved is that he started and stayed a local hero who sometimes jumps up to the world savers form time to time. Ms. Marval started as a local hero, but in the show they rushed her into being a world saver instead of part time world saver.
This series doesn't have to be perfect
But it's rare to have even a rough glimpse of other vast worlds with expansive histories with horrors and fragile hopes...
...all on this earth
I just cannot get over the power change, I loved the super power she had in the comics.
Ms Marvel is what I wanted Spider-Man to be.
I'm a school counselor and felt so attacked and seen by the counselor.
Thank you so much for this video! I had put off Ms. Marvel for over a year, and I only finished it this week because I promised a friend I'd go watch the Marvels with her tonight. I wish I had watched it sooner--it was a ton of fun and visually engaging! I agree wholeheartedly with you about the middle of the show being "undercooked." The way I described it to a friend, I thought I had missed an entire episode or two about the Clandestines and/or the Red Daggers.
The good parts of this show are SO GOOD, which makes the mediocre stuff feel almost criminal for dragging the show to a screeching halt. But also. . . it makes me want to forgive the bad beacuse you can see how much love and care are put into Iman Vellani's performance, the art style, the rich backgrounds and bit characters, etc.
Looking forward to seeing The Marvels today, and I'm glad you seem to have enjoyed it. I agree so much with your take on Ms. Marvel, I'm hopeful that I'll come away with a similar opinion on the film.
Better than most Disney shows
which isn't saying much gonna be real - it was just bad, like saying average would mean sticking the landing where it didn't
episode one isn't that strong and the avoiding "hollywood filter" of other cultures is still there, its just the performative tokenism of the culture shown
her going to the party or that entire hulk scene doesn't empathize us to Kamala, SHES THE WRONG IN THE WRONG, she had a easy out and didn't take it like a spoiled child cause she did and then gets rightfully grounded which goes NOWHERE
i also wouldn't say they're good parents, like again they just left the country on a whim, why!? what happened to school, what time slot is this, and again that's expensive to go back and forth
even the personal stuff is bad in part cause the villains (the super wannabe shield cops) are cartoonishly over the top evil and its so obvious why cause that's the point, divisive group cause media is about shoehorning in its agenda to the audience so evil group is obvious and everyone else is "perfectly good" its boring and the clandestine aren't the opposite of it by also being to her cause their aliens technically
the weakest episode is ironically the partisian episode cause it was MEANINGLESS, like its A) rushed B) did nothing for the plot that couldn't of been a hand wave away C) the relationship of the two don't work cause they're meaningless side characters with no development D) agenda pushing
like showing a culture doesn't mean anything - this tiptoeing of the topic cause its a social topic is WHY they push it cause u feel its tricky to talk about, its not even slightly - its a point in history that's used to preach to the audience and probably one of the few reasons this character is now in the MCU with barely 5 years of history in comics
and the finale was a mess, from plot contrivance portal power punch to the meaningless enemeis to the main boy just given a pass for lets be real him murdering a bunch of people simply trying to stop him and parents cheering as she's shot at, so much is dumb so much is wasted and so much is just bad
Amazing character and show imo.
Imane Vellani is genuinely such a good actress. She knocked it out of the park and ger future is bright. She has the talent to ve a generational actor
I think Kamala's X-gene allowing the jumpstart of her other abilities is probably what they're going with, since a friend of mine who keeps up with at least the plot synopsis of current comics has said that apparently in the comics, Kamala has a secondary mutation that allowed her to be an inhuman and a mutant at once.
Oh, I wish I could forget about things like the power change and whatnot, but I can't. While he's not a Conservative, I basically have to hear about that stuff every time we talk about the MCU as the folks he watches basically call things like Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk bombs, so I don't get to forget some of the controversies I'd actually like to forget.
Just came here to say that I appreciate that you gave this an honest criticism and compared it to Russian Doll (which is awesome) and it wasn't "Disney bad", "Marvel bad", "female bad" that is most of the criticism I see in my CZcams suggestions feed. So I look forward to seeing what else you have and keep up the good work
It was a cute series
Hey guys, I haven't seen the Miss Marvel series, but I went to see The Marvels last night, and I have to say I think it's probably the best of the recent Marvel films. Is this because I'm a woman? What do you all think?
Oh you're gonna get eaten alive
I adored the marvels. It was so fun and the core cast had such great chemistry. It had a few editing issues but compared to most marvel stuff as of late it was stellar
Oh, The Marvels is easily better than many recent MCU movies (except GOTG and maybe Wakanda Forever)
@JuanPablo-su6vw doesn't look like it...
Kevin Feige behind you with a pistol: good. Now tell them its the best movie youve ever seen.
I love Iman Vellani/Ms. Marvel/Kamala Khan so much. And the whole Khan family are delightful. To the point that I am completely willing to overlook any problems with the Ms. Marvel show. And The Marvels but that movie turned out to be much better than I was expecting.
This show was so much fun. Imo she's the only teenage superhero in recent memory who actually acts like a teenager, and yes that includes Spidey. I also liked the cultural aspect and that they went to the motherland, but the show did go downhill after that with the generic villains and whatnot. I liked it when the show was grounded.
Ms Marvel was fun. I like her family story and seeing that side of a superhero's life.
And Iman Vellani is just such a nerd I can't help but smile.
my gripes about the changes to ms marvel's powers aside, the show felt like they tried to cram 2 6-episode seasons together and it shows
Good video. Thanks!
Writing a fanfic about Thanos in that universe is the equilavent of writing a fanfic about Pinochet.
I was disappointed the great externalizing the internal didn't carry on much past the first episode. Between that and the extremely short 6 episode run (with a good chunk of each episode taken up by the credits) it felt like Disney didn't care about this show the way it ought to have.
And that is honestly true of many productions these days. It is a wonder the creators are able to make any kind of cohesive show at all with how little time they are given.
The shotgun era of platform-produced TV is upon us. Where streaming platforms produce tons of tiny underbudgeted, short shows trying to hook people in with great first episodes while hamstringing the rest. It is hurting shows that could be so much better.
Marvel needs to work on their villains. The only memorable villains we've had in the Multiverse saga so far are Kang, Wanda, and old Spider-Man villains.
I think this feels like two separate season smashed together. One is Kamala’s origins as a Jersey city superhero and her dealings with damage control and community problems. The other is her trip to Pakistan and uncovering her heritage and partition while dealing with the clandestine and allyship with red dagger. I feel like giving space to both would make both better, the way it is now having the Karachi arc wedged in between Jersey stuff just makes it feel awkward. Having us learn Kamala’s status quo and then her adapting to superheroing before we and Kamala getting used to a new location and reveals.
First of all, Iman Vellani is a blessing upon an often seemingly bland post-Endgame MCU. Her performance in _Ms. Marvel_ might be on the tier of many of the performances in _Loki,_ which IMO is the gold standard of MCU TV (X-Men '97 hasn't crossed over to the MCU yet, so I don't tend to think of it as MCU, sue me), impressive for an actress of her age.
Second, _Ms. Marvel_ is an example of representation done right, and I wish that Jewish culture and history could have been represented as well in _Moon Knight,_ _Legion,_ or _Harley Quinn_ as Pakistani Muslim culture and history was here. Hoping that producers in the superhero genre will do better with The Thing, Kitty Pryde, or even Ragman in the future. We built the genre and it's unfair that fear of censorship or boycotts is preventing our culture from being explored in its context.
Third, I noticed that the writers moved the plot of the first issue of the _Ms. Marvel_ comic to another episode, like episode three or something. This was a great choice, as issue one of the _Ms. Marvel_ comic was more of a teen drama story, not a superhero story, while episode one of the _Ms. Marvel_ TV show was definitely more balanced.
Fourth, I definitely agree with you about the empathy for the teenage viewpoint thing. While I am not a teenager, I am a college student, so I'm still in school and it still feels like I check my schedule sometimes and I'm drowning in work that wasn't there yesterday.
Fifth, and this is probably a minor problem, I didn't understand why she was a superfan of Carol Danvers. Or, rather, I understood the Doylist reason (keep it close to the comic), but I didn't understand the Watsonian reasoning. Carol Danvers in the comics was a widely known superhero for decades who had done stints in multiple high profile teams (including the X-Men and the Avengers), while in the MCU, she had only fought really one widely publicly known battle on Earth, a battle that many other heroes took part in. MCU Kamala Khan could therefore only have had six months to a year where she even knew that Carol Danvers existed.
Controversial opinion but for me iman as Kamana is a better casting than tom as peter Parker.
Offspring of jinn and human is common in Arabian folklore
I only watched the first episode because at that point I had already stopped caring about the MCU really. It all feels part story and part product placement for whatever comes next.
This show does have some fun and creative VFX though, the animated graffiti, the comic book stuff, the daydreaming.
MCU Ms. Marvel is just bittersweet for me
A few things you didn't mention:
MCU young actors that didn't quite hit the mark: Xochitl Gomez - America Chavez, Kathryn Newton - Cassandra Lang, and Riri Williams - Dominique Thorne
Kamala’s insecurity about "no one wants a Muslim superhero" felt really weird and was kinda just shoehorned into the show.
You're 100% right about the partition stuff was so rushed. It is a super-complicated period in history that probably could've benefited from a standalone episode.
I do love the Imam's inherent exhaustion with displaying his "goodness". Muslims need to see peaceful depictions of their culture in media as the norm (and violent or anti-semitic Imams and communities condemned as outliers). The show could have been an interesting exploration into how to deal with Discrimination I(a), I(b), and II, and how to exclude and excommunicate violent members of your "ingroup"
Personal advice: quit apologizing for being white. It's cringe, and South Asian people don't respect you for it. Just say what you need to say and let your words speak for themselves. Announcing to everyone “i’M nOt rAcISt” is kinda goofy. Just say what you need to say, and if you’re not racist, people will know.
I’m not sure where you got the idea I’m apologising for being white. I don’t use a face cam, so I’m just letting viewers know I’m not of the culture I’m discussing.
THIS so true on apologizing and pacifying statements throughout
I am fully on board with the idea that Iman Vellani is just that charming. That's what carries the series. I did not enjoy the Ms. Marvel series. It had a great first episode and a great last episode, but the middle episodes dragged. It was my least favorite Disney+ series until She-Hulk aired. But Iman as Kamala? Winsome throughout.
Also, threading the needle with the Bruno relationship was ARTFULLY executed.
I liked the show.
I know it wasn't going to be like the comics, especially with things in different order.
I'll admit I got excited when they said she was a mutant at the end.
I think it was supposed to be more episodes, but covid cut a lot of things.
The time-pressure of the Clandestines was a huge bugbear for me. They've been patiently tracking the bracelet for more than half a century, but they can't allow a couple extra days to fully win over Kamala's trust because "there's no time" is so trite it drags be out of the story every time.
That, and having two vaguely defined antagonist groups with too little time devoted to either are definitely the big misses. Oh, and the "good guy cops" ending definitely didn't sit right - I get that it's meant to be hopeful and about building bridges, but the cops just coming out on the side of the immigrant minority population against the government-endorsed private militarised group felt so tone-deaf.
It's just a shame because I love absolutely everything else. I don't know if the show just needed one or two more episodes, one fewer antagonist, or just another pass on the final edit, it was inches away from true greatness, but still feels like one of the better MCU shows, and certainly introduces one of the best new MCU characters.
Great video! I’ve only seen people talking about how bad it is, so it’s good seeing a more balanced view.
I wonder you might go over the drama with Disney's Wish getting unfair hate.
So basically this probably would have better if these arc were 2 seasons
Never in history has such an unremarkable, uninteresting, middle of the road television series received so much scrutiny. Good lord.
Quinton Reviews has 13 hours of content on Victorious and you’re bringing that smoke _here_ ?
I am a young male adult from India and I liked the series despite its flaws. Most people my age hate it or haven’t seen it. My big problem was the fact that Pakistan was represented very badly. Everyone had an American or other kind of foreign English accent and they also had a great actor from Bollywood just cameo and give a giant exposition dump before dying… also how was India and pakistans relationship affected by the five years of the snap!!! I do believe they’d have open borders and Pakistan and India would probably unite as one country lacks resources while the other lacks the manpower after half the population got dusted. The decades long rift between the two countries created by the British would’ve been healed or in the process, with it being even more interesting if the flag smashers helped or if the GRC was a militant group like the British colonizer, mirroring the forceful separation of India and Pakistan, happening once again, but after the blip. For fucks sake marvel, my idea here is a hundred times more valuable than the entire ms marvel series! They need to hire MORE DIVERSE VOICES WITH UNIMAGINABLE CREATIVITY which means stuff like considering how two nations that hate each other would act if half the population vanished on day.
They already hire diverse writers and directors, Dude
Iman Vellani is perfectly cast and I'll watch anything she plays in
I recently rewatched Ms. Marvel & still enjoyed it very much! My only dislike is the villain, Najma, but it didn’t ruin the overall experience for me.
Loved Ms marvel in the show and in The Marvels.
I agree with pretty much all that you said here. I love the show and the stuff it can do, but yeah, they really did just rush it to get her into team ups. I feel like Marvel is turning into what DC was doing, rushing movies just to get to the team up without it being earned.
Adding to what you've said about a connectivity curse, the MCU is multidimensionally cursed. It has to deal with the MCU's history and future, and it's constantly confronted with comic "cannon." Many fans never understood or accepted that live-action and comics aren't the same. As the MCU progresses, fans seem less able to separate the two. Too much "baggage" is carried into every new thing. Nothing is experienced for the first time anymore.
I wanna say that there might be a bit of bias or at least a lack of knowledge about desi culture and dynamics. It’s kind of commonplace for my grandparents and extended family to talk about the heavy struggles and experiences in their past.
It really needed 2 extra episodes. 1 in jersey and 1 in Karachi. Also why wasnt ms marvels scarf a red dagger scarf. Such a missed opportunity
having had a family members while not indian nor packsani by ethicisaty (british nationals that had lived in the area before partion) i can speak to how tight lipped people who lived through that are. my nana and papa (my grandparents on my mothers side) shared very little. though my nana was more taltive about her childhood though as she was suffering even then from onset aysmias that might have being all she could recall. my papa, only realy opened up in his last days when he was in the hospitle as he thought someone should know what he had seen and lived through.
Great video. Only thing I’ll say is that in the brief comparison you make to Moon Knight and cultural identities. As a Jewish person I was extremely dissatisfied with how Jewish identity/religious was handled. Ms Marvel was far better in that respect.
You forgot to put SELF INSERT CHARACTER on the thumbnail
So...just like Luke Skywalker?
Really curious know to get your thoughts on how Dark handled the “time-skippy family trauma therapy studies”
Haven’t seen it, sorry!
Love your analysis i havent seen the show or much marvel stuff lately but showing off those backgrounds i think is what got me. Here i thought damage control was mostly a construction company
This show lost me immediately when Kamala rewrote the Endgame battle, haha.
Why tho? That’s literally her character. She a fangirl who likes to write fan fiction and obsessed with Captin Marvel.
Episodes 4 and 5 were a low point for me but I'm glad to see a more positive perspective on it.
Iman is such a great actress to play the character, i still can't believe it's been a year since watching it and She-Hulk.
I liked the character interactions, the asethetics of the show and more.
I do agree it suffers from the same problems as the other 6 episode Marvel shows do as not making it deep or giving not to much to make things more interesting.
There should have been three more episodes.
This show really should've stuck with the same director for all 6 episodes. The fact that they switched directors so much really felt weird. Episodes 1, 2, and 6 are all by the same 2 directors who clearly had a vision for the show that was somewhat hijacked by the director for episodes 3, 4, and 5. At the very least, splitting it with 1, 2, and 3 going to the first two directors and letting them finish their DODC plotline before switching over for 4 5 and 6 and letting them do their Karachi plotline and have them be self contained instead of overlapping
most of the marvel shows have had a bunch of different directors and i dont really get why? whats the benefit? especially with how short these are is it that hard to just let one perosn do it all
@@sm42941this is common in television. Not every person will direct all the episodes
@@nalday2534 I didn’t know that thanks
But also this isn’t really television is it? These are basically just long movies split up into 6 chunks lol (except wandavisuon). Unless each episode is tryna do something distinctly different (like wandavision) then what is the benefit?
@@nalday2534 yeah but usually it's common in non-serialized television. a sitcom can have different directors because no two episodes have any obligation to intertwine or tell an overarching story. a show like this is telling a single story. In a sitcom you could switch the order of most episodes with almost no continuity errors. In ms marvel, each episode is not just in chronological order but each episode has plot revelations directly set up by and continued into previous and future episodes.
@@sm42941 Loki and Wandavision are the only shows that are actually written like shows. Others are like 5 hour films chopped up in 6 parts with no clear coherent episodic structure. And no, television is often known as writer's medium so the showrunners are the ones sailing the ship. Directors have to be a part of the team and bring showrunner's vision to life hence why shows often have multiple directors, also because it sometimes becomes impossible for a single person to direct all the episodes
I wish my parents had been 1/10th as accepting as Kamala’s.
The problem is it felt too much like a Disney channel series and should of been a short
It started off good but it seems like they gave up completely on the unique visual style that separated this MCU show from others.
Also her being a huge fan of Captain Marvel doesn’t make sense considering the only time anyone has seen her publicly (maybe?) was during endgame for a few minutes. Other than that what does she have to connect herself to the most private, enigmatic, “hero” that is not an avenger who does 99% of her hero work off world since the 90’s? It just doesn’t work with what we know of the world in MCU history as far as I can tell.
"Also her being a huge fan of Captain Marvel doesn’t make sense considering the only time anyone has seen her publicly (maybe?) was during endgame for a few minutes."
Yeah, annoying thing for me that was kinda always there in the MCU but really got emphasised post Endgame is how publicised a lot of the heroes are, throwing out a lot of the secrecy to that life and making them more like celebrities. Steve Rogers has a musical, Ant-man has an autobiography, the existence of the once completely hidden Sorcerers is just common knowledge now to the extent that Ned Leeds knows what the Sanctum Santorum is, Kamala Khan knows Nick Fury by sight...
Um actually, they were called djinn (by superstitious people) but were not "actual" djinns.
Should have been a slice of life
It was
@@mox9076 no like more slice of life without the villains. Just a girl with superpowers trying to find her place in the world
I actually dont mind kamala her show was definitely more a family show so it wasn't my favorite but overall she wasn't bad her powers are cool tho i prefer the og stretchy kamala and most importantly shes not forced now i dont think shes good enough for her own movie or nothin but id take a season 2 and like to see where she goes (she was also the best part of the marvels in my opinion
The show is amazing I just wish they gave it time to breathe. I miss the way shows used to be where you got like 20 episodes a season and a good, slowburn story. The industry has been so focused on giving audiences immediate gratification and payoff, that people genuinely get angry when masterpieces like Andor don’t have massive, workshaking, confrontations within the first 3 episodes.
I like ms Marvel
☮
Super nice of you to respect the words of South Asian creatives on the Djinn stuff. Simultaneously, Sharmeen totally pulled that out of her ass, trying to equivocate Djinns with Witches for Western viewers and trying to make traditional viewers seem unreasonable to deflect the backlash. Djinn in South Asia isn't seen in social contexts as a way to other people - they're straight up supernatural beings you don't mess with. This is why it's especially bad that Kamala is somehow a descendant of them, that shit doesn't happen (atleast anymore) and narratively, it kills her everyman/fan origin story. Realistically, the use of that context would just make her a Non-Muslim, which is where this whole problem lies. The actual Outsider with a connection to Djinn social context that is used is in the form of queerness - where queer muslim kids can be seen as afflicted by curses by Djinn (which most know is homophobic bs). And she definitely knows this with her history.
And this speaks to the biggest problem with this series - the stripping away and westernizing of her and her family to make them palatable for a Western audience. Her mom's a hijabi, her sister-in-law wears a Burqa, her brother and dad are deeply religious. This series strips all the 'stereotypical muslim and south asian' elements as a way to fit in with Western ideals of the Minority Myth, of 'progressing' past their cultural norms to fit in. It's just gross.
I can't help but think that Ms. Marvel would have been a much better show/movie/project if Chapek had never become CEO at Disney. The show we got was really enjoyable, but its flaws seem to flow from the policies and imperatives that Chapek drove forward in the company. If Chapek had decided to basically continue what Iger was doing rather than launch his own agenda, I think Ms. Marvel (and the whole post-Endgame MCU) would have been a very different animal.
What agenda????????
@@suzygirl1843 Chapek's agenda was mostly to turn control of Disney over to banker executives who were loyal to him, rather than Iger's policy of putting creatives in charge of creative projects. Chapek also wanted to push a mass of non-controversial (read, "no LGBTQ+ that could piss off conservatives") projects on Disney+ without any regard for quality. Not that Disney was particularly LGBTQ+ friendly before, but it started to get actively hostile to progressive content under Chapek, rather than just kinda negligent like it was before he took over.
I haven’t finished the video yet, but I’m on the djinn part. As a Muslim, I personally did not like the way they used the djinn in the show. The djinn are not typically a good group, even being the species that our version of Satan is from. And as you mentioned, they are not typically seen as something you should draw power from. I understand that it is a somewhat different term among Southeast Asia and the Middle East, but if you are making a show with a Muslim protagonist, making that protagonist a djinn has interesting, and in my opinion concerning implications. I understand how not everyone sees it that way, even among other Muslims, but me and my family did not like that decision. Otherwise, I very much liked the way they incorporated Islam into the show and nothing felt very offensive and managed to ring true to some experiences I’ve had as a Muslim.
I enjoyed the show, and agree with pretty much everything you say. But I am also not the target demographic, being an old white guy. I don't really enjoy teem drama that much (for the record, the first 2 spiderman movies in the MCU, while good, are among my least favorite).
But I do have to agree Iman is a great actor, was great in the Marvels, and really captures everything of this character.
I didn't watch the show because I love her comicbook powers and think the MCU substitute is lame. I don't care if it would've looked weird, that's kind of the appeal. I care even less that it's similar to Mr Fantastic
Iman Vellani carried The Marvels!
People are getting pissed at her now because she said that Marvel fans need to do better.
@@DarksideGmss0513 I mean she also said "the responsibility lies squarely on Bob Iger, not us".
@@CrowTRobotthey don't care about that though they only see in the part where she said fans need to do better.
@@DarksideGmss0513i mean she’s right tho lmao. Them getting mad at her literally proves that. They focus on the wrong things like the actors, when in reality the actors are literally just doing their job. The way carol was written in the first movie is literally not brie’s fault, so they feel the need to justify hating her by talking about “feminism” or whatever tf they morphed into something negative in their minds
@@gingerdog8203 exactly. It's just like Laura Bailey she still gets death threats for her role as Abby in the last of us.
Ms. Marvel is genuinely the best Desi representation we've ever had in Hollywood. I never thought I would see Desi characters actually interact with their culture without it being something they don't like or a joke. I absolutely never thought there would be a scene in the MC-freaking-U where characters talk about SRK and Bollywood, or show the Partition or anything. As an ABCD, I'm so glad this show exists.
I wish the inhuman,s was in the MCU
No, I don't
@@suzygirl1843 yes I do because they are important part to the entals
Stretchy powers just look goofy. They are great in comics or cartoons, but when you try to apply them to live action they look so off, it becomes unbelievable. The change to Ms. Marvels powers was a good decision, and I worry that The Fantastic 4 will never live up to what is expected of a great superhero movie because of this. Reed Richards will always look somewhat... silly.
They need to stop making these things for folks like yall
Also, did you see Anjali Bhimani in both the Modern Family clips and in Ms. Marvel? That just positively tickled me, as a huge fan of Anjali Bhimani's.
Young man, you are in for a very rude awakening one day…
There's a x men character i find kind of cool called armor who has powers similar to what ms marvel has now, I think that's why I didn't like ms marvel her new powers.
Just a brief aside, but at the 21 minute mark you used the phrase “Djinn aside,” and I just wanna advise against saying that with your particular aspect to avoid demonetization for a simple mistake
Personally, if I may give my opinion as someone who discovered the character through the comic and was a fan here: for me, the show is a mixed bag.
On the one hand, I agree that the main actress is great and the dynamic with her parents works; it's not a 100% match to the comic, but it's close enough and it captures what made their charm. The first two episodes, while not perfect (I'm still baffle by the choice to change Khamala's powers for no reason), work fine....
But it all take a nosedive as soon as we start to get the Djinn stuff. Not only are the Clan Destine not remotely present in the comic (safe for Kamran, but he was completely different), but they're incredibly boring as antagonists; no unique powers (seriously, how do you pick Djinns and make them barely different than random super-soldiers?!), no unique fighting style, and a motivation that sounds sympathetic on paper but barely has any impact on the plot. Moreover, while the idea of exploring Pakistan and the Apartheid isn't necessarily bad, it's as far as possible from the street level superhero stuff we actually like Miss Marvel for. Like you said, I would have kept that stuff for a potetially second season (or at least reduced it to one episode); they tried to throw us in something completely different before we even had time to adjust to the regular status quo!
Overall, it feels like a portion of the show was made to actually be about a Miss Marvel adaptation but then they forced all the Djinn stuff in-between because... I don't know, there needed to be an escalation or something.