not much of aviation, but my grand-father was a ammunition-guy for the machinegunner in winter-war. He saw two of his gunners lose their heads in the battles, but he returned after war, with some medals. In this day I think he was the man who did his job, and did it good.
Back in the 70's I was teaching adult education. Not infrequently students were retired military. One was a retired USAAF / USAF officer. At the time I was reading about the history of European B-24 operations. Got to chatting with this guy and he told me his B-24 got shot up and he had to land at Duebendof. Told me the nose art on his bomber was a Buffalo crapping bombs... one for each mission. Couldn't believe it! That book I was reading had his story with a photo of that nose art. Brought it in for him to see. He had no idea.
@@lindanwfirefighter4973 While I realize its fashionable today for some folks (such as yourself) to denigrate just about anything and everything American, the B-24 pilot in my story said he was received well... the Swiss authorities even allowed the crews to patch up their bombers and fly them around locally to give them something to do, albeit with a Swiss officer, armed with a hand gun, aboard. That said, I am sure you know more about how allied flyers were received than someone who was actually there...
Switzerland has always followed the money. They did not want enemies on either side for that reason.. No reason to be obnoxious to allied flyers at all.
@@Riffer19 Your spot on. Their position was difficult and complicated. I.E, after 1942 they were a small country surrounded on all sides by Axis, (or Axis controlled countries) Germany, Austria/Hungary, Italy, and France. And to your point, my B-24 pilot also told me about how strange it was to be having a meal in a café where some tables contained members of the German military while other held allied personnel. He also told me the Swiss put his crew up in an Alpine Resort since, because of the war there were no tourist. Not exactly bad duty.
Those poor boys were sitting ducks. Flying Fortress they were more likely to hit their own planes than to hit a speck flying straight st you at 650mph closing speed firing 20 &30 mm cannons at you. One could go right though a B17 and kill half the crew. Too many boys in a flying coffin. But they did it anyway? Too many targets when they only needed to bomb oil refineries? Planners?
I remember in 1988 strolling through a warbird museum restoration hangar at the former site of Forbes Air Force Base, near Topeka, KS. My family had been stationed there 25 years previously and it was my first time back. Scattered about the floor were various pieces, parts, wings, cowlings and engines of a B-17 flying fortresses, including the nose art that, although faded, was perfectly preserved. On the way out, I happened to spot a dusty ball turret off by itself in a dim corner. My father had told me that only very small airmen could squeeze into one and that even then they had to lie on their backs with their knees drawn back between the two Browning .50s. I walked over to get a closer look when I noticed something odd. Peppered throughout the rear door of the turret were many ragged 1-2 cm shrapnel exit holes, several large enough to reach through. The front side was facing away from me, but as I walked around, what I saw made my blood run cold. A 3 cm hole was blasted perfectly through the center of the flat circular bulletproof glass windshield. Evidently, a German 20 mm round had penetrated the glass, traveled between the gunner's knees before exploding right into his face. I can only imagine how the ground crew removed his body. That moment truly brought the reality of WWII air combat into focus for me.
Bless those men that flew the B17s and B24s my father was a pilot of a B17 he flew 23 missions he was one of the lucky ones that came back home over 43,000 brave men lost there lives in B17s.
@Peter Rogan Tell this story to the guy who invented the Iraq weapons of massdestruction or the tonkin boat accident or who write the Nayriah testemony, but not to me !
grandfather pilot landed here around same time. Hit in Bombay Munich mission seconds after bombs dropped. Hit one fuel tank and tore hydraulic lines engine 3 taken out. Door gunners covered in fuel and hydraulics one missing skin on shinbone from shrapnel. Ditched all 50cal and ammo to make it over Alps. Bombay doors locked so Swiss air came up aggressively to escort. Hand signals told could not close. Landed on airfield ran out of fuel and hydrualics right at landing with nose wheel collapse in cornfield. My grandfather evaded after 4 months.
The men of the of the bomber commands of both England and America had balls of Steel. They knew they were going to die,but still did their jobs. Incredible..
Unfortunately that is not quite true. They had no other choice they were scared shitless for they knew what was waiting for them. The planners finally figured it out that all you had to bomb was oil the rest was Of secondary importance. Then all of a sudden no fighters or much less but after 1943 the biggest killer B17s was flak and you didn’t need defensive guns against flak?
scot irish Oil was always an important target but the planners spent too much time on ball bearings which if they had had a brain they. Should have left alone. They just bombed my ball bearing plant so now I will have to buy them. From SKF Sweden. You are telling me they did not know that. We lost one hundred four engine bombers on. That dumb
Many of these brave lads were just teenagers and all USAAF aircrew were volunteers with the exception of commissioned officers. It"s heartbreaking to watch when the pilots lose control just moments from a safe landing.
Can only imagine the conversation with the ball gun turret gunner if he was still alive as the bomber he was in was making the approach as he of all crew members would know if the landing gear was down or not. In a B-17 belly landings meant death for many gunners.
If the barrels are pointing down he's probably out as l think the hatch is at the opposite side of the ball. The ball was electrically powered and had a mechanical override if power failed but it did happen that they could get jammed. The story of turret gunners dying in a wheels up landing is from a news crew covering 17's returning and it happened in front of them so naturally it made the news. I used to go fishing as a boy with a guy who was a turret gunner he said trains were his favorite. Said you start at one end and work your way up it. They'd be a few hundred feet above it you could see guys jumping off pieces flying. He said the feeling of having those two 50's beside you was something else. He did say the highest death rate was the tail gunner.
8th air force tallied only 7 deaths in ball turret in its entire fighting history. 4 were dead to enemy fire, 3 were crushed during landings. It was the only position equipped with a drain plug. Safest spot on the B-17.
That one Liberatore had done 40 raids . Each bomb on its side denotes a raid. Imagine going out day after day 40 times , thinking each one is your last. Only to get shot down on the last one ! People died and where crippled for life in these aircraft !
It was the planes 41nd raid, most its first crew must have done their 30 mission tour and had been sent home. This was probably the 11 mission of this planes replacent crew.
Interesting how you only think about the airmen (military personnel) and completely ignore the thousands of innocents women and children (civilians) killed by their bombs in those 40 raids...
Crews who landed in Switzerland ended up spending the rest of the war in internment camps. “After interrogation and quarantine, the officers went to hotels in Davos - during the war they didn’t have many reservations! - and the others went to Adelboden and Wengen,”
Well calling all of them interment camps is pretty damn hyperbolic. Switzerland quickly ran out of space in the actual internment camps and in many cases hotels were being used as temporary "prisons" including 5 star ones which had no customers during the late stage of WW2 anyways. I live next to Davos and know for a fact that we never had any interment camps in this region and that they used hotels and hospitals to house them. Funny enough the very same facilities in Davos were being used by the Nazis earlier in the war to take care of soldiers who were effected by gas attacks.
Strange how Boeing could make aircraft back then that could make it back 1/2 it's size than it was when it left. Now they just fall from the sky and lately have been found with cracks in the new ones.
Ignorance. Look at how many flights are taken today with modern aircraft and very few crash in a year. Maintenance is a fraction of what the ww2 aircraft needed. Engines can last up to 15k hours without an overhaul. Ww2 aircraft were disposable. They were made to the best technology of the day but that technology has moved on and became much better. There are a few ww2 aircraft still flying but the care they require is staggering.
Swiss aircraft also intercepted U.S. aircraft who were off-course, or whose crews preferred asylum in Swiss internment camps over German or Italian POW camps; they were then forced to land on Swiss airstrips. When the bombers did not cooperate or even fired at the Swiss (who were using Axis-type interceptors), they were shot down. Swiss Airforce also shot down Nazi planes.
oh man ., the last crew , poor lads ,so young , looks like struck starboard wing huge fuel leak and loss of engine? r.i.p. no chance making it back around
Prononcer "mouqui", @@parisnormal1872. "Hase" veut dire lièvre en langue allemande, mais par commodité les Allemands appellent ainsi également les lapins ("Kaninchen", je suppose que cela vient du latin cuniculus).
J. Saldana might be mistaken but I believe the B24 ball turret came back up into the fuselage and B17 ball turret gunners climbed out into the cabin before landing
He was not the only one? One 20mm canon fired from behind or from the front could go right though the plane and kill most of the crew. A very dangerous place to be. They just did the best they could, bless all those boys.
The B24 & the B 17 were flying coffins the concept of cramming 9 & 10 men in one plane was not the most brilliant idea of the war, especially when expected to hit a speck traveling at 400 to 650mph with a hand operated machine gun. Next to impossible, but that is what all those poor lads were asked to do?
wim ziekman yes put less men in them. Why two pilots? Once a me110 got behind a B17 with a 30mm canon they were dead they could not even shoot back the 110 was out of range? Gunners were not much good against flak and two of my friends in B17s were shot down by flak one was shot down by flak twice. Hundreds were shot down by flak. Don’t need to be an Einstein to figure out the folly of putting ten men in one plane.
The airforce tried to restrict the size of the crew of course: no need in extra weigth. 2 Pilots were used because if 1 was hit the other could fly on (standard in most of the world). Have you ever seen what a 12.7 mm bullet can do? BTW, most of the bombers were shot down by planes. Think before posting this nonsense.
wim ziekman we are talking about WW2 the Lancaster bomber had one pilot? And yes I have seen what 7-20&30mm can do. That is my point Wim what ever you say the B17 & B24 had too many men in them. A hand operated machine gun had very limited value in these planes, my late friend Henry Lasco was sent on a suicide mission to Ploesti. He was pilot a 20mm came though killing his copilot and blew his jaw off they were very low and crashed Henry was the only one left out of a crew of 9. They lost 50 B24s? Why they selected the B24 is a mystery. They had the mosquito which was twice as fast could carry 4000 lbs of bombs had a crew of two. Now tell me how smart the planners were and how effective gunner were? You need to think before being critical ?
Night bombing and day bombing aren't the same. The latter is more risky because there were many more day fighters than night fighters for instance. The british Short Stirling had 2 pilots as many more 4-engined bombers had. Flying boats often had 2 pilots so how difficult can it be? That you don't understand doesn't make it a silly mistake. Even medium bombers often had 2 pilots. The chance that 1 of the pilots might survive is 50% bigger chance for the survival for the plane. Gunners are not as vital as pilots. I don't see your problem. How logical can it be?
Lieber mit brennenden Motoren über die Grenze nach Dübendorf, Absturz riskieren .. und in Davos im Kurhotel wohnen statt auf deutschem Boden zwar sicherer zu landen, aber von der Bevölkerung gelyncht zu werden wegen Bombardierung von Frauen und Kindern .. es war zwar die RAF die Terrorangriffe flog ( US-airforce bombardierte Industrie) .. aber mach das einer deutschen Frau klar, welche ihre Kinder aus dem Feuersturm in Pforzheim, Stuttgart oder Dresden nicht retten konnte.
Ich habe viel Respekt fuer die deutsche Jagdflieger die gegen diese Uebermacht gekaempft haben und noch mehr von die Nachtjaeger die kaempften gegen diese RAF Terrorbomber um ihren Familien zu schuetzen.
DANKE !! Es war wahrlich ein heldenhafter Kampf. Wenn man sieht, wie systematisch Wohngebiete mit Phosphorbomben vernichtet werden, so erklärt sich die Motivation ohne dass die jungen Kerle Nazis waren. Die Terrorbomber hatten teils 25% Verluste, welches 100-300 Maschinen pro Angriff bedeutet. Man stelle sich vor, es brüllen junge, psychisch kranke Demonstranten heutzutage in Dresden ,, Bomber Harris, do it again,, => PFUI TEUFEL
Ab dem 7. September 1940 wurde London von der Luftwaffe systematisch für 56 der folgenden 57 Tage und Nächte bombardiert. Und nicht nur London ... + V1 & V2. Befehl ist befehl.
I'm sorry to say, but I don't feel one bit sorry or remorseful for the bomber crews shot down and killed during the war. Fact is these crews killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children. 80k alone killed in Cologne in one night not to mention the fire bombing of Dresden and the how many that died there. I had huge sympathy for Merchant seamen killed in WW2 but not these guys.
not much of aviation, but my grand-father was a ammunition-guy for the machinegunner in winter-war. He saw two of his gunners lose their heads in the battles, but he returned after war, with some medals. In this day I think he was the man who did his job, and did it good.
Back in the 70's I was teaching adult education. Not infrequently students were retired military. One was a retired USAAF / USAF officer. At the time I was reading about the history of European B-24 operations. Got to chatting with this guy and he told me his B-24 got shot up and he had to land at Duebendof. Told me the nose art on his bomber was a Buffalo crapping bombs... one for each mission. Couldn't believe it! That book I was reading had his story with a photo of that nose art. Brought it in for him to see. He had no idea.
I bet they were not well received in Switzerland! Allies were not as loved as the west’s propaganda leads people to believe.
@@lindanwfirefighter4973 While I realize its fashionable today for some folks (such as yourself) to denigrate just about anything and everything American, the B-24 pilot in my story said he was received well... the Swiss authorities even allowed the crews to patch up their bombers and fly them around locally to give them something to do, albeit with a Swiss officer, armed with a hand gun, aboard.
That said, I am sure you know more about how allied flyers were received than someone who was actually there...
Switzerland has always followed the money. They did not want enemies on either side for that reason.. No reason to be obnoxious to allied flyers at all.
@@Riffer19 Your spot on. Their position was difficult and complicated. I.E, after 1942 they were a small country surrounded on all sides by Axis, (or Axis controlled countries) Germany, Austria/Hungary, Italy, and France. And to your point, my B-24 pilot also told me about how strange it was to be having a meal in a café where some tables contained members of the German military while other held allied personnel. He also told me the Swiss put his crew up in an Alpine Resort since, because of the war there were no tourist. Not exactly bad duty.
My uncle, Les Pullen was one of these. He was a flight engineer in a B 24. (broken back but survived).
🌹🙏🇳🇿
Those poor boys were sitting ducks. Flying Fortress they were more likely to hit their own planes than to hit a speck flying straight st you at 650mph closing speed firing 20 &30 mm cannons at you. One could go right though a B17 and kill half the crew. Too many boys in a flying coffin. But they did it anyway? Too many targets when they only needed to bomb oil refineries? Planners?
@@cobrajet079 How do u know that personall infos?
@@cobrajet079 O, ok ENTÃO Zozzzzz
Kudos to the engineers who built the things.
I remember in 1988 strolling through a warbird museum restoration hangar at the former site of Forbes Air Force Base, near Topeka, KS. My family had been stationed there 25 years previously and it was my first time back. Scattered about the floor were various pieces, parts, wings, cowlings and engines of a B-17 flying fortresses, including the nose art that, although faded, was perfectly preserved.
On the way out, I happened to spot a dusty ball turret off by itself in a dim corner. My father had told me that only very small airmen could squeeze into one and that even then they had to lie on their backs with their knees drawn back between the two Browning .50s. I walked over to get a closer look when I noticed something odd. Peppered throughout the rear door of the turret were many ragged 1-2 cm shrapnel exit holes, several large enough to reach through.
The front side was facing away from me, but as I walked around, what I saw made my blood run cold. A 3 cm hole was blasted perfectly through the center of the flat circular bulletproof glass windshield. Evidently, a German 20 mm round had penetrated the glass, traveled between the gunner's knees before exploding right into his face. I can only imagine how the ground crew removed his body. That moment truly brought the reality of WWII air combat into focus for me.
Yes and the Krauts had the Deadliest 20mm ammo ever ! Look it up !
These historical B&W videos are so much better and more respectful without muzak. They aren’t Hollywood.
Bless those men that flew the B17s and B24s my father was a pilot of a B17 he flew 23 missions he was one of the lucky ones that came back home over 43,000 brave men lost there lives in B17s.
666MikeRochip THANK YOU so kindly
Ils auraient tous dû y rester.
The 43000 cant destroy my Country!
No mercy for Childmurder, bless the Luftwaffe for stopping this pigs.
@Peter Rogan
Tell this story to the guy who invented the Iraq weapons of massdestruction or the tonkin boat accident or who write the Nayriah testemony, but not to me !
That was amazing!
Thanks
grandfather pilot landed here around same time. Hit in Bombay Munich mission seconds after bombs dropped. Hit one fuel tank and tore hydraulic lines engine 3 taken out. Door gunners covered in fuel and hydraulics one missing skin on shinbone from shrapnel. Ditched all 50cal and ammo to make it over Alps. Bombay doors locked so Swiss air came up aggressively to escort. Hand signals told could not close. Landed on airfield ran out of fuel and hydrualics right at landing with nose wheel collapse in cornfield. My grandfather evaded after 4 months.
thor sorensen Amazing! Thank you for sharing.
thor sorensen Amazing! Thank you for sharing.
Cool my granduncle was one of the Battered Bastards of Bastoigne.
Circle or triangle or shield ,15th Airforce USAAF ,M T O ,1942 to 1946
My former pilot instructor was a B 17 pilot. Shot down over Germany on his 17th mission in 1943. RIP Earl Sharp (Lubbock Tx). See orbit. Interesting.
The men of the of the bomber commands of both England and America had balls of Steel. They knew they were going to die,but still did their jobs. Incredible..
Can you imagine battling yourself back to base only to crash...Those were brave men
Unfortunately that is not quite true. They had no other choice they were scared shitless for they knew what was waiting for them. The planners finally figured it out that all you had to bomb was oil the rest was
Of secondary importance. Then all of a sudden no fighters or much less but after 1943 the biggest killer B17s was flak and you didn’t need defensive guns against flak?
@@frankcorner8716 That is so true my friend,no oil and you have no luftwaffe,no panzers and no wermacht
scot irish Oil was always an important target but the planners spent too much time on ball bearings which if they had had a brain they. Should have left alone. They just bombed my ball bearing plant so now I will have to buy them. From SKF Sweden. You are telling me they did not know that. We lost one hundred four engine bombers on. That dumb
Mission
This was not the base. This airfield is in Switzerland .
Thanks for this video. The crew of those B17s and B24s were brave men who flew many dangerous missions.
N'importe quoi.
Thank! Brilliant
Many of these brave lads were just teenagers and all USAAF aircrew were volunteers with the exception of commissioned officers. It"s heartbreaking to watch when the pilots lose control just moments from a safe landing.
Hope it never happens again
Non of it would have occurred if the French and British governments had had a backbone.
The Mosquito was also built in Canada.
Светлая память.
Can only imagine the conversation with the ball gun turret gunner if he was still alive as the bomber he was in was making the approach as he of all crew members would know if the landing gear was down or not. In a B-17 belly landings meant death for many gunners.
If the barrels are pointing down he's probably out as l think the hatch is at the opposite side of the ball. The ball was electrically powered and had a mechanical override if power failed but it did happen that they could get jammed. The story of turret gunners dying in a wheels up landing is from a news crew covering 17's returning and it happened in front of them so naturally it made the news. I used to go fishing as a boy with a guy who was a turret gunner he said trains were his favorite. Said you start at one end and work your way up it. They'd be a few hundred feet above it you could see guys jumping off pieces flying. He said the feeling of having those two 50's beside you was something else. He did say the highest death rate was the tail gunner.
@@medler2110 If making a belly landing the pilot would try to get at least one wheel down if possible to give the ball some room.
This is not true. Read a book. Safest position. Usually out of the ball by landing approach.
@@graham2631 Believe the late Andy Rooney (of 60 Minutes fame) had it happen to him while he was assigned to the Stars & Stripes.
8th air force tallied only 7 deaths in ball turret in its entire fighting history. 4 were dead to enemy fire, 3 were crushed during landings. It was the only position equipped with a drain plug. Safest spot on the B-17.
Вечная память всем погибшим в небе над логовом врага. И мирного неба выжившим.
That one Liberatore had done 40 raids . Each bomb on its side denotes a raid. Imagine going out day after day 40 times , thinking each one is your last. Only to get shot down on the last one ! People died and where crippled for life in these aircraft !
Image the thousands of childern they plannet kill in the 40 raids !
It was the planes 41nd raid, most its first crew must have done their 30 mission tour and had been sent home. This was probably the 11 mission of this planes replacent crew.
@@wotan58 Sadly some of them got home.
Let‘s hope the Swiss interned them into forced labour camps.
Interesting how you only think about the airmen (military personnel) and completely ignore the thousands of innocents women and children (civilians) killed by their bombs in those 40 raids...
They don’t know how lucky they were
HELMUT ALTO but most were in Swiss hotels. As I said the lucky ones made it to Switzerland
Did you notice all the bombers parked in the back ground at the beginning of the clip? These aircraft were all interned till the end of the war.
So were the crews.
@@karljohanlea5564 They were lucky to be interned in Switzerland. War was over for them.
Switzerland got most of them during 2 raids about 20 or so there alone
Total badassery
Crews who landed in Switzerland ended up spending the rest of the war in internment camps.
“After interrogation and quarantine, the officers went to hotels in Davos - during the war they didn’t have many reservations! - and the others went to Adelboden and Wengen,”
Well calling all of them interment camps is pretty damn hyperbolic. Switzerland quickly ran out of space in the actual internment camps and in many cases hotels were being used as temporary "prisons" including 5 star ones which had no customers during the late stage of WW2 anyways. I live next to Davos and know for a fact that we never had any interment camps in this region and that they used hotels and hospitals to house them. Funny enough the very same facilities in Davos were being used by the Nazis earlier in the war to take care of soldiers who were effected by gas attacks.
Was going to ask what happened to the crew...was that for both sides??
@@NB-vd6fd What gas attacks?
Nitro Boarder the gas victims presumably were fromWW1 and they were not NAzis. I don’t believe any gas was used in WW2
Slickgoodlin better in a Swiss internment camp than a flying coffin.
The scrap metal business must have been booming in Switzerland during this time.
Da gabs dann wohl auch ne Menge Hundefutter.
Strange how Boeing could make aircraft back then that could make it back 1/2 it's size than it was when it left. Now they just fall from the sky and lately have been found with cracks in the new ones.
@War Child And took great pride in their work.
Ignorance. Look at how many flights are taken today with modern aircraft and very few crash in a year. Maintenance is a fraction of what the ww2 aircraft needed. Engines can last up to 15k hours without an overhaul. Ww2 aircraft were disposable. They were made to the best technology of the day but that technology has moved on and became much better. There are a few ww2 aircraft still flying but the care they require is staggering.
Sad.
Were any of these allied plane shot by the Swiss?
Swiss aircraft also intercepted U.S. aircraft who were off-course, or whose crews preferred asylum in Swiss internment camps over German or Italian POW camps; they were then forced to land on Swiss airstrips. When the bombers did not cooperate or even fired at the Swiss (who were using Axis-type interceptors), they were shot down. Swiss Airforce also shot down Nazi planes.
GRANDES ACIDENTES ! ELES FORAM ALVEJADOS POR INIMIGOS, BRASIL OK.
So happened to the planes then? Were they just scrapped
Some were patched up by the US and returned. The good ones the Swiss made into passenger planes.
@@thomasniner001 Puled apart into sub assemblies. And reused with new parts to make new ones, junk was scrapped
Nursing a crippled aircraft to safety and crashing or like some, in sight of it. Poor beggars.
oh man ., the last crew , poor lads ,so young , looks like struck starboard wing huge fuel leak and loss of engine? r.i.p. no chance making it back around
Bien fait pour leurs gueules.
Yeah wondered why he just didn't set it down. If that last footage is the result, no survivors in that one! RIP fellas.
@@muckiderhase157 ?
Prononcer "mouqui", @@parisnormal1872. "Hase" veut dire lièvre en langue allemande, mais par commodité les Allemands appellent ainsi également les lapins ("Kaninchen", je suppose que cela vient du latin cuniculus).
Very possible that a non-pilot was flying. Perhaps a navigator who washed out of flight school.
Not sure what you are talking about?
What? You don't understand American.
Thanks for all WW2 vets . we would be speaking German .
God forbid Americans gotta learn a single foreign language
@@Leon_der_Luftige nein
Or Japanese.......
Man the ball turret gunners got screwed.
The ball turrret is unarmed so yeh
J. Saldana might be mistaken but I believe the B24 ball turret came back up into the fuselage and B17 ball turret gunners climbed out into the cabin before landing
that's right (if not damaged)'
He was not the only one? One 20mm canon fired from behind or from the front could go right though the plane and kill most of the crew. A very dangerous place to be. They just did the best they could, bless all those boys.
@@wimziekman1104 B-17 ball turret was a suicide position. Shortest person on the crew got the ball turret.
2:30 rats chewing on the rudder.... again
Flak bait :D
Sadly not enough
So only Americans landed there? I'd image a few Germans or Soviets would be there to.
At least one He 177 crashed in Switzerland after fires in both narcelles
Too.😁
The commissar shot the soviet pilots before they could land.
MADE IN USA, BY AMERICANS, FOR AMERICANS. PERIOD.
I am figuring the Swiss were not too thrilled at this junk collection.
Ditch the music and get some narration
Okay don't watch problem solved.
The B24 & the B 17 were flying coffins the concept of cramming 9 & 10 men in one plane was not the most brilliant idea of the war, especially when expected to hit a speck traveling at 400 to 650mph with a hand operated machine gun. Next to impossible, but that is what all those poor lads were asked to do?
Got a better suggestion Einstein?
wim ziekman yes put less men in them. Why two pilots? Once a me110 got behind a B17 with a 30mm canon they were dead they could not even shoot back the 110 was out of range? Gunners were not much good against flak and two of my friends in B17s were shot down by flak one was shot down by flak twice. Hundreds were shot down by flak. Don’t need to be an Einstein to figure out the folly of putting ten men in one plane.
The airforce tried to restrict the size of the crew of course: no need in extra weigth. 2 Pilots were used because if 1 was hit the other could fly on (standard in most of the world). Have you ever seen what a 12.7 mm bullet can do? BTW, most of the bombers were shot down by planes. Think before posting this nonsense.
wim ziekman we are talking about WW2 the Lancaster bomber had one pilot? And yes I have seen what 7-20&30mm can do. That is my point Wim what ever you say the B17 & B24 had too many men in them. A hand operated machine gun had very limited value in these planes, my late friend Henry Lasco was sent on a suicide mission to Ploesti. He was pilot a 20mm came though killing his copilot and blew his jaw off they were very low and crashed Henry was the only one left out of a crew of 9. They lost 50 B24s? Why they selected the B24 is a mystery. They had the mosquito which was twice as fast could carry 4000 lbs of bombs had a crew of two. Now tell me how smart the planners were and how effective gunner were? You need to think before being critical ?
Night bombing and day bombing aren't the same. The latter is more risky because there were many more day fighters than night fighters for instance. The british Short Stirling had 2 pilots as many more 4-engined bombers had. Flying boats often had 2 pilots so how difficult can it be? That you don't understand doesn't make it a silly mistake. Even medium bombers often had 2 pilots. The chance that 1 of the pilots might survive is 50% bigger chance for the survival for the plane. Gunners are not as vital as pilots. I don't see your problem. How logical can it be?
Why the stupid music? Stop that!
#mute
Over 80 Bomb Raids to Switzerland Towns by the Allied !!!! Peter Haisenko ( LH Kapitän I.R. ) CZcams
you get a 👍for the video but a 👎for the COMPLETELY over the top soundtrack ⭐⭐✌
You don't have to listen to it, and there's no audio in the original footage anyway.
awww no offence and thanks for posting...just felt the images were not 'enhanced' by your choice of soundtrack...just saying 👍⚡👜
No, the music was alright. Some people put really bad music on their videos that is just annoying, but this is not one of them.
@@tomthx5804 Sorry mate...just checked out the video again...the soundtrack is way way over the top👉🇬🇧👉⚠️
Ach nee, haben die Amis vielleicht Prügel bezogen?
Lieber mit brennenden Motoren über die Grenze nach Dübendorf, Absturz riskieren .. und in Davos im Kurhotel wohnen statt auf deutschem Boden zwar sicherer zu landen, aber von der Bevölkerung gelyncht zu werden wegen Bombardierung von Frauen und Kindern .. es war zwar die RAF die Terrorangriffe flog ( US-airforce bombardierte Industrie) .. aber mach das einer deutschen Frau klar, welche ihre Kinder aus dem Feuersturm in Pforzheim, Stuttgart oder Dresden nicht retten konnte.
Ich habe viel Respekt fuer die deutsche Jagdflieger die gegen diese Uebermacht gekaempft haben und noch mehr von die Nachtjaeger die kaempften gegen diese RAF Terrorbomber um ihren Familien zu schuetzen.
DANKE !! Es war wahrlich ein heldenhafter Kampf. Wenn man sieht, wie systematisch Wohngebiete mit Phosphorbomben vernichtet werden, so erklärt sich die Motivation ohne dass die jungen Kerle Nazis waren.
Die Terrorbomber hatten teils 25% Verluste, welches 100-300 Maschinen pro Angriff bedeutet.
Man stelle sich vor, es brüllen junge, psychisch kranke Demonstranten heutzutage in Dresden ,, Bomber Harris, do it again,, => PFUI TEUFEL
Ab dem 7. September 1940 wurde London von der Luftwaffe systematisch für 56 der folgenden 57 Tage und Nächte bombardiert.
Und nicht nur London ... + V1 & V2.
Befehl ist befehl.
@Peter Rogan Krieg ist immer schlecht, oder?
3:18 at least this one got what he deserved
Let‘s hope the Swiss made the pay sufficiently for the internment of the cowboys.
them
the swiss nazis treated these men worse than the german nazis ...
How to treat such low level guys ?
At home, in the US, they have a weekly shooting !
I'm sorry to say, but I don't feel one bit sorry or remorseful for the bomber crews shot down and killed during the war. Fact is these crews killed hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children. 80k alone killed in Cologne in one night not to mention the fire bombing of Dresden and the how many that died there.
I had huge sympathy for Merchant seamen killed in WW2 but not these guys.