Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Does Locrian Create Aural Illusions?
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 05. 2019
- A common discussion in the comment section of my 'A Song That Actually Uses Locrian' video is that 'Army of Me' is in fact in Bb Aeolian, not C Locrian. I can understand why others are suggesting this but I really can't hear it in that context, so in this video I attempt to shed some light on this apparent tonal duality!
Sources:
Moore, A (2012) books.google.co.uk/books?id=9...
Hein, E (2015) www.ethanhein.com/wp/2015/mus...
Waiting for Bjork to come here and tell everyone that it’s actually written in Gb lydian
That would be a Bjerk move
czcams.com/video/vTSmbMm7MDg/video.html
Yessss! “Oh, how Scandinavian of me.” Hahaha
@@toprak3479 Who is "Bjerk"?
@@KevinSrensenDK I suppose you missed the pun. Björk + jerk = Bjerk
C definitely sounds like the root to me. The Bb sounds like it just wants to rise up to C
Interpreting the C as a 9th/second and not the root during that section is.......so interesting. I just don't hear that at all though lol.
I didn't think C sounded like the root until I heard Bb.
Rise up
Exactly
Totally sounds like C to me.
Such creative content, C definitely sounds like the root for me
very clear C for me too.
I honestly can't even stand the tension with Bb being the "root" it's totally C as the root.
Same for me. I love all the dissonance.
@@jeyi3224
Imogen is a name Shakespeare accidentally invented by having bad handwriting
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in the mode,
But in our ears, that we are slaves to tritone resolution."
Underrated comment.^
Please do: How Björk uses modes. I'm fairly certain that there are quite a few examples considering that she is a musical genius lol
i'm pretty sure "unravel" is written in C lydian (it's really hitting that F# a lot)... but lydian is a lot more melodic and common than locrian he he :P
@@nebelung1There’s a lot of Lydian on Homogenic; All Neon Like and 5 Years are also in Lydian
A great video to answer those who don't understand modes. I love it when people say "modes don't make any difference - they just have the same notes". I ask them if they can't hear any difference between major (Ionian mode) and natural minor (Aeolian mode) - same notes, different tonality. That's usually when the light starts to come on
first
well, some people actually can't...
Weirdly, I hear the C as a kind of suspension that wants to descend, but when I listened to the Bb, it felt like a leading note wanting to resolve upward.
@WackFlySo Ditto
Same
Well, locrian doesn't really have much in the way of resolution, right? It's not surprising that you'd find it feels like it wants to resolve somewhere!
@@forbesjeff Yes, I suppose so but it's interesting that the C seems to want to descend and the Bb ascend, and they don't want to go up to Db, and down to Ab respectively. Where does the C want to resolve to? Not B as there is no B! But in the very next phrase the C does step down thru B to kind of resolve on Bb. I think the analogy with foreground/background illusions is very useful.
I experienced the same. C feels like a 9 wanting to descend, but the Bb feels worse.
I think another test is to play the bassline, and then pause and pick a note out of the air that sounds resolved. For me, that's C. Also, the vocal melody clinches it for me being in C.
Locrian is like technetium. It exists smack-dab amongst the most stable elements, is extremely rare, does have its niche use cases, but would really rather resolve to something else.
I'm all with you here. It is clearly in C locrian. Very good demonstration.
Root is C. Bflat drone wants to resolve to C
Shouldn't be a question really...
I Don’t hear it that way. C is a non tonic pedal to be resolved later, creating a small scale need for Bb flat to resolve up.
@@austinshoupe3003 If Bflat needs to be resolved, then it's not the tonic, is it. Either way, Bjork thinks it's in C, since both the vocal line in verses, the chorus and the ending are clearly in C.
same
Yeah! That's my feeling exactly!
No doubt, the root Is C. The bass line is definitely in C locrian and I've always heard it that way.
Wonderful interpretation of modes! It is interesting to break the "absolutism" in music.
The best
@@nicolasgabet7561 please explain...
@@nicolasgabet7561 I think there is some bias on your argument, tonality is not necessarily more important that modes or some parts must be there because is a short period in the music, I agree that time is important in what mode are “a melodic approach” but doesn’t mean that all sections need to depend on tonality. For me sounds heavily locrian and tense.
@@nicolasgabet7561 that’s the point, in the context, the rhythm dictate a different thing... but what you mention is not a resolution because the phrasing is repetitive and repetition legitimize. The Chorus is a clear different thing, Despite the fact that harmony theoretically seems to solve, for me and several other people it does not and it is good that it is so, it is the good thing about the different points of view
@@nicolasgabet7561 thank you for sharing your point. Have a great day!
Here's my experience, and then a possible explanation:
I first listened to it, and I couldn't quite hear the same notes you had written. When you played the C on top of it, it didn't sound right, but Bb didn't quite sound right either. But Bb definitely sounded more at rest.
However, when I put the same music into MuseScore (in the written octave, dropped an octave, and doubled), it was immediately clear that it was in C Locrian. The C is held longer, and there is a clear appogiatura to resolving back to it. I just automatically hummed a C when I heard it.
I go back and listen to your examples, and the one with C over it suddenly sounds completely at rest.
My proposed explanation:
That bass line is hard to hear (especially if you don't have a subwoofer or are listening on a mobile device). It kinda splats around a lot. It's very electronic and missing overtones that would make it clearer. It often sounds more like clicks than a note. I think the result is that my brain is filling in the gaps, and it's not doing so in Locrian.
But once I know what it's supposed to sound like, per your transcription and playing that, I can very much hear that it's clearly C Locrian, both by my ear and by the analysis using the appogiatura and held notes.
Heck, the only way I can hear it in Bb minor is to transpose everything down a diatonic second. Then the same features make the Bb now sound like the tonic.
Did your software analyze it, or was that all your conclusions?
sadsongsishere No, the software was just Musescore. It just let me copy the sheet music and then play it back.
Here’s another analogy: Locrian mode is the musical equivalent of transuranic elements - they can be synthesized in a lab, but are too unstable to exist in nature in any quantity. If there were a Locrian pop song, no question Björk would be the artist to do it, and maybe she’s actually pulled it off here. -- When I listened to your Part 1 video, I immediately heard the tonal centre as firmly in B♭, with the melody D♭ as a minor third and the C as having the characteristic tension of a 9th-over-minor. -- So I drafted a long comment arguing for B♭aeolian and was about to hit Submit when I saw that you’d done a Part 2. Now that I’ve listened to that and heard the superimposed C, my ears have switched and like you I can’t stop hearing C as the tonal centre! LOL. You’re right it’s like that two-profiles/one-candlestick illusion where you can only see it one way at any given moment, but unlike an optical illusion neither of us can switch back and forth. Crazy. -- I must say though, that Locrian diminished 5th occurs only in the baseline, and even though it’s in a rhythmically strong position (beats 2 and 4), the line’s so rapid and pitched so low that overall the verse sounds more like C-Phrygian with a muddy, dissonant bottom end. Or maybe that’s the Locrian undergoing atomic decay the moment it reaches my ears.
It's possible that the people who suggested Bb Aeolian as the actual mode of the song were mislead by the initial Bb. It's pretty common for basslines to begin with the root of a given mode, but in this case, that Bb is an accented neighbouring tone. It revolves around the actual centre, which is C. The centre is being emphasized by being played in the longest notes of the melody, and the way Bb ascends to C. That's the main reason why the C drone sounds in rest, and not Bb. Each time a Bb is played, it's being played as a neighbouring tone happening really fast, as opposed to C which is always at rest.
Agreed. It's also worth noting that a lot of jazz songs from the 40s and 50s (eg. Autumn Leaves) will even begin on the IV or V chord before finally resolving on the I at the end of the entire chorus. So the starting note is not a reliable guide to the overall key.
People who said Bb probably only listened to (actually, read) the bass intro, never the song.
C Is the first note of the melody. The vocals clearly show that's the root.
@@george474747 also this, very clear indicator as well
Just sending you some encouragement. Your videos are well thought out, and I appreciate your work.
I completely agree! They're so interesting.
It's obviously C. The bassline lets the C note ring longer, therefore becoming the most dominant note. The Bb is only played briefly.
If c is dominant then f should be the tonic.
F phrygian. Case closed.
The C rings longer to build tension for the resolution back to Bb.
but the b flat is played on the first note
tk337 the root isn’t always the first note played
Dude your channel is amazing. You're so educated and passionate about this stuff. Amazing.
C sounds like the root for me. I feel like the bflat wants to resolve to C.
Very interesting discussion! When I hear it isolated I hear Bb minor but the C drone sounds much more natural. I think it's C Locrian now.
PLOT TWIST: my school bell rang and created a neutral 9th with the Bb drone
cast off Ionian tyranny! join the Locrian rebellion now! praise be to the Diminished Fifth!
B sounds flat as hell!! C sounds like the root
C. No doubt.
I love David’s videos, even tho i don’t understand anything he’s explaining. Honestly, when I tapped on this video, I assumed “Locrian” was the name of a singer, likely the one pictured in the thumbnail.
To me, the with "C" root the line feels like it wants to stay in place. With the "Bb" the line really sounds like it wants to find a place to move to.
Amazing work thank you!! It will be lovely to see other videos that actually use other modes! Thank you very much!
C sounds like the root to me too - but I think some are picking up on the move to the chorus and back with a different ‘ear’. Another really interesting video. Ta x
Wow - what an great opening of Locrian and so good selection of examples. 👍
when you played the Bb, i wanted that Bb to resolve to a C for sure
I love videos like this! U explain it in a way that’s easy to understand, thanks!
Hi, David. First of all, thanks for your work. It's great to find young people doing this kind of videos. I'm a modern music teacher in Spain and, if my opinion helps, the song is clearly a Locrian song, no sound doubts about it and no theory doubts about it. Keep going, David.
Your musical knowledge is incredibly impressive.
The controversy probably comes more from the fact that we are trying to force it into one specific set of rules as your previous video noted the shift between the verse and the chorus. Tonality is barely suggested.
Hope to see you tackle the klezmer scale soon.
Yes, I think the tonic is ambiguous at best. Also, I hear that opening bass line as a whole-tone subset. We should not "assume" everything fits into a diatonic context.
@@MichaelSidneyTimpson It doesn't have to fit in easily into a diatonic scale, even though ideally it would.It seems that it takes some work to do that.The last tune fit perfectly into the locrian and avoided implying that C was the root in any way.Lets face it,In a B locrian,with the first triad being BDF we have part of a Gdom7 chord (GBDF)and if we aren't careful,our ears are so trained to want to hear that Gdom7 to Cmaj cadence,we will.He was right to poing out the avoidance of G and if we obviate the B an the F above it,that tritone makes us feel like we need to resolve to a Cmajor or a Cminor but it tricks us into hearing a part of Gdom7 as an illusion of the whole chord.Bud Powell made great use of two note chords(ok, technically diads and not chords)as shells and implying the rest of the chord.Avoiding those critical two notes let's one get away with locrian.
I think we are conditioned to assume such things, I guess out of simplicity. But reality is much more sophisticated.
@@josephdrach2276 Thanks for the good discussion. Mostly agree, however, I am not sure if it is always "ideal" for something to fit into a diatonic collection (it was only after the Christian schism we were forced to only view the diatonic collection as legit, as the Greeks also described chromatic and microtonal--called enharmonic then--as part of Southern, Eastern European and Middle Eastern traditions; it was part of everyday folk music.) . Especially will the final adoption of equal-temperament in the 20th century, when music was no longer tuned to require natural overtone resolutions, the use of diatonic and common-practice can only be one of reference and allusion that actuality. With the greater use of non-western traditions as well, as well as computer music, our ears have been greatly expanded past to what we are essentially "conditioned" to look for. On the other hand, simplifying things for basic education, (saving more greater philosophical discussion for deeper studies) makes sense. This guy does really great clear presentations, and I respect him a lot.
@@MichaelSidneyTimpson It's actually the reality first and the analysis later.Bud Powell did use just two notes to create the feeling of an entire dominant 7 chord.He was able to go through fast(or slow)modulations just by tossing off say the root and the dom7 or the third and the dom7(tritone).This was not only for dom7 chords but the rest as well.Bebop did change music in general and not just Jazz even today.It's not philosophy in an abstract sense it's what people hear.Bass players can use dyads to signify an entire chord and a modulation too.Listen to some who use this technique.To get a song of decent length to not sound like it wants to resolve to C while being in B locrian is hard because of all the conditioning we've had to expect V7 - I.He makes some good points about how not to imply it and how easily it can be implied.You have a point about this being a problem because it's pushing a melody into a box by insisting it conform to a certain pattern.When most people write,the melody comes to mind and then it's a matter of picking it out on an instrument the writing it down,not by starting with a fixed scale in mind.
Great recap of the previous video. Thanks for the Locrian exploration!
Certainly an interesting and engaging debate. Thanks for bringing this level of intellectual rigour to the masses 😊
"Army Of Me" is C Locrian . I agree . The part in your demonstration with the 2 different drone notes added .
Absolutely brilliant video.
Loved this video and the previous that brought me here, quite illuminating and well explained. You've earned a new subscriber here.
Brilliant! Thanks for watching 🙂🙂
As far as I saw most of the comments mentioned Bb being the first note in the bass line. Well, if that's your strongest argument... better not argue. And not with David :) Great content, mate I always keep coming back to your channel. I wrote a song in Locrian today so I needed my CZcams portion of crazy modes :-)
Lots of metal bands use the locrian mode. I listed a few metal songs that use locrian (at least I’m pretty sure it’s locrian) in the comments for your other locrian video. Here’s another list:
Metallica - Shortest Straw 0:46
Judas Priest - Painkiller, the main riff
Macabre - Drill Bit Lobotomy, main riff
Meshuggah - Combustion, main riff (one of the best of all time)
Metallica - Harvester of Sorrow 4:08, a very short part
Metallica - That Was Just Your Life, first riff
Exodus - And Then There Were None, first riff
Exodus - Strike of the Beast, first riff
Korn - Shoots and Ladders 3:31
Metallica - Moth into the Flame 0:19
Ministry - WTV 0:13
Devin Townsend - Namaste 0:47
And here are some riffs that I think count as locrian despite using a root note power chord i.e. despite having the natural 5th, but ultimately they have the locrian feel, plus the bass is doing pure locrian:
Pantera - 5 Minutes Alone 3:55
Death - Born Dead 0:51
Exodus - Deliver Us To Evil, first riff
The same with Sonne by Rammstein, which haves a perfect fifth on the root note
Fantastic work here. Nicely explored and expanded
Thanks for this intellectual exhuming of aural illusions... A great delight of authentic music theorists... The music is in C anyway(my opinion)
Just like fixed versus movable doh....this is fixed versus movable modes aurally
Cheers man. Lucky to have a community like this 👍🏻.
Another excellent video, thank you.
When you first played it with a C drone, I thought "no", but when you played the Bb drone, my mind was trying to resolve the Bb to C so I guess the tune is C Locrian.
Same
Isn't she singing in C ? C feels like the root to me.
Yes she sings a lot of C
The root of the bass sounds like C to me as well. Exactly the same feeling as other comments, like the Bb tone wants to resolve up to C.
So it's not a pop song, but Brahms' first piano concerto first movement has a Locrian intro. It's actually quite stunning!
Neither the C nor Bb sound at rest when droning over the bassline. However, the C sounds slightly less tense after you hear it compared to the Bb.
That's the point of Locrian, it's meant to sound jarring. The C does sound at rest but the flat 5th and flat 2th are dissonant in context to the C.
The Unknown the central note is typically the home or point or rest in a mode (or at least in the slightly Old school idea of modes). How can it be a C mode when C is not a point of rest.
The Unknown The melody uses that Db to resolve to C and the phrases clearly end on C. However if we are to judge the character of the mode based on the melody (wich I would argue is the strongest thing to point to when making a vase for C being the central note) then it is worth noting that the melody avoids the b5 wich is what would give it the locrian sound.
@@TheUnknownMattawa There's no "point" to Locrian, or any other scale. Scales are what they are. You'll only find Locrian "jarring" if you demand it to work like the other diatonic modes... which is patently silly, when you think about it. Why would you expect a scale to *not* be what it is?
Locrian has a diminished fifth. That's it, that's all, it's as simple as it gets. There's no bogeyman, no monster under the bed, no killer in the closet. It's a simple diminished fifth. It happens to be the only diatonic mode with a diminished fifth, just like Lydian is the only diatonic mode with an augmented fourth. Nothing jarring about that.
Sean Francis Waters Lancaster locrian is not a church mode nor was it a mode in the renaissance it isn’t going against 500 years of study to say it is. My point is in fact based on the old modal practice in which the tritone is specifically avoided in relation to the final as it would otherwise risk destabalizing the final. H is the only note that is comonly altered in old chants, specifically in lydian where it destabalisez the final and in hypo-dorian where it destabalizes the recitation note. This is also why the recitation notes in phrygian and hypo-mixolydian are on c and not b. The tritone is destabalizing, thats why V7, vii°, viiø7, +6 and iv(add6) chords have a dominant function. That is one reason as to why one might use bVII and bII. I’m pretty sure I’ve even heard of it being used in atonal music to weaken the sense of tonality.
Amazing creative and interesting content! Keep up the great work!!
Personally, C felt like the route to me
Once "Dust to Dust" came on, the melody instantly reminded me of "From Mars" from Gojira, making me realize that it probably is a very good example of the Locrian mode as well (E Locrian, in particular). Check it out.
And it's also pretty cool that, in that example, Gojira actually use a trick that you mention in the video, falling back to D Aeolian in the very next (connected) song in the album, "To Sirius", giving the haunting Locrian melody of the previous track a sense of long-awaited completion.
Great video topic.
It's definitely locrian in C. Starting note *usually* defines the chord/mode but in funkier grooves that's not the case. Not only for decades in western funk/R&B have we seen bass lines that do not start on the tonic (starting on the b7, b3, 13, etc), but if you get into Caribbean and South American music, bass lines often start on non-tonic notes and preempt the downbeat entirely. On paper it looks like Bb aeolian but music analysis must always take into account the defining quality of music - time - so in the context of music in motion, it is 100% locrian.
I'm definitely hearing Bb as the at rest note. The C was alright but wanted to descend.
Bjork - definitely C is a root for me.
The song at the end - I so so want to resolve this B, but not to C Ionian but A aeolian
Locrian is a very interesting mode
I tried to write a simple melody in it and i've found that doing scales up or down tend to work really nicely, probably the easiest way to keep locrian in locrian by always resolving to the root through scales but hey it sounded pretty cool.
By the way, I absolutely love your channel, so please don't take my comments as criticisms, for they are just meant as contributions in the discussions. Keep up the good work! I am so happy you have shared with me aspects of so much great music.
Digging semantic graves is my delight...
100% agree the tonic is obviously C. Laughing at all those comments asking "what music school did you go to?" Those folks have no ears.
ikr
They got their mouthes closed to maybe never open again.
In the video where you spoke about phrygian, you brought up the song by Tame Impala "New Person Same Old Mistakes" and how it is in C Phrygian. You mentioned how some people heard it in Ab major, and after you played each note over the song, I definitely heard C as the tonic. So after that and for this, I definitely was not expecting to hear Bb as the tonic. Very interesting!
This was interesting. If major sounds happy and minor sounds sad, then I would say locrian sounds stuffy, like being trapped indoors on a rainy day. When I was young a piano teacher once set me the homework exercise of composing a song utilising the concept of modes in general. My composition repeats phrases in various modes before resolving to major in the end.
Yess!
definitely c locrian, no doubt about it
Yes
Bro! i love your videos!
i just saw the creative radiohead covers and i think that you will love this complete album.
Radiohead, a jazz symphony by
the noordpool orchestra.
love all the covers of that album But my favs are:
the suite of everything in its right place-/pyramid song
weird fishes
exit music
Nude
@DavidBennettPiano - About the song "Dust to Dust" by John Kirkpatrick: There is no G, no 6th, but if it were G#, then it would work very nicely with a flamenco-style harmony using E major (adding flat-9 sometimes) and F major chords (with #11). The B scale could then be B Locrian natural 6, the fifth mode of Phrygian dominant (or the 2nd of harmonic minor). Replace the British grave digger with a flamenco singer and it will work great. The F major chord resolves to E major (think tritone substitution) and the C note resolves down to B.
One of my favorite songs that i’ve ever composed is entirely in locrian. I honestly find it easier to use than lydian or even the common major scale. To me Locrian is more usable than Ionian. You dont have to rely on functional harmony all the time, you can also emphasize the root with groove.
I'd like to hear that.
@@k-leb4671 Uploaded them to my bandcamp today, just for you habibi! gabrielhededal.bandcamp.com/album/locrian-and-tarznauyn-locrian-6-songs
The first two songs are composed to an indie game that I solo-developed, but have put on a stand for a few months wile working on another personal game-project! third song is entierly in Locrian with a natural 6th or maqam Tarnauyn and something I composed just for myself :3 Last one is just a bonus song I threw in there because I don´t know!
Please tell me what you think :)
@@k-leb4671 did you listen? what did you think?
@@inFAMOUSgagimeister we listened, we loved it. Very otherworldly.
@@Sillyfer55 thank you that makes me very happy to hear :D
Holy fuck you know some stuff. Salute.
Wow this is a brilliant explanation of modes for a newbie like me, thanks for sharing 👍🏾
Glad it was helpful!
I definitely hear C. This is such a cool concept!
So all those modes are all the same notes, but are called differently depending on which note you start with. It's weird how I didn't realize that until now.
That's how writing harmonic music started, because they didn't have # and b, they created the modes. Basically.
It's not so much about the notes, ss much as the intervals and relationships between the notes that make a mode
you said björks name right!
You can harmonize Dust to Dust pretty easily with something like Bm(omit5) - Dm7.
Omitting the fifth of the chord is a pretty useful harmonization technique in general because you can put a melody around the chord that would otherwise clash with the fifth.
My trick with writing in locrian is to use the minor 7th with no fifth for the root chord. Also, when it comes to melodies, I like the resolution of four to one.
Dude it’s obviously in Locrian , I mean . When you played Bb as the root it always sounded like it wanted to resolve into C ,
My ear for pitch is awful, but don't the vocals for Army of Me start on C? The whole thing seems to lock in place when she starts singing.
I hear this too.
Yep, the vocals are rooted in C. If there's any ambiguity, it's between the bass and the vocals, since the melody is written in C *Phrygian* instead of Locrian.
this is really helpful, thank you!
The song Elite by Deftones does something very similar. In parts of the song. There’s a specific riff that’s very similar to the bass line in Army and I think it does the same thing.
To my ear, it sounds ambiguous. If I slow it down, I probably hear beats one and three as a Bb root and 2 and 4 as a C root. But it isn’t slowed down, and it doesn’t have a Bb or C pedal above it, and that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? While I find this discussion fascinating, and many of the comments very perceptive, it also feels like an argument about how one hears the first bar of Beethoven’s First Symphony; some say “it sounds like V7 to I” and others say “I hear it as V7 of IV.” If you can audiate where it’s going to resolve because you’ve heard the rest of the harmony, it’s difficult to un-hear that.
I agree with the commenter who said that C sounds like a suspension and Bb sounds like a seventh (when the pedals are present). @GGauche
I actually heard D being the root in Dust to dust. That would make it D Dorian. Maybe it's because I'm much more familiar with the Dorian mode than Locrian? But why didn't my brain process it as A aeolian or C ionian then, since I'm much more exposed to those keys? And that would seem more logical because it's only one scale degree away from the B whereas D is two steps away.
To answer the first question I heard the C as the root in the Björk song.
This is cool! I got a weird experience, when you played the C beep under the bass line, I felt like it really wanted to go down to Bb (like after the first repetition), but when you played the Bb beep, it felt like it wanted to go up to C :-) So I think it's both kinda sorta maybe? Like Locrian is so unstable it's just so slippery and will go anywhere else. But the way Björk made her tune it also doesn't sit right on the Aeolian mode. Maybe it's a bit like that rabbit/old lady/spinning dancer illusion.
Yes. both B and C WORK, or resonate, yet i feel strongly that B wanted to resolve to C. My mind kept making the resolution happen back and forth, but yearned for C.
C sounds like the root to me. Locrian shares the flat 3rd, flat 7th and most importantly the flat 5th (tritone) with the classic blues scale. Lots of funk, rock or metal riffs use variants of that scale and the tritone interval is often used in a dominant way to build up and release tension, kind like a perfect 5th (an obvious example would be 'Black Sabbath' by Black Sabbath). The bassline of 'Army of Me' fits into this kind of musical pattern.
I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT HE IS SAYING but still enjoyed it
The ultimate piano composition that tests the boundaries would be a piece in Lochrian mode; that has a time signature that has a denominator that's between 2 common time signatures (e.g 4/3 with 4 dotted quarter notes making a measure, 4/6 with 4 dotted eighth notes making a measure, or16/12 making 16 dotted 16th notes making a measure).
@David Bennett The verse of Lounge Act by Nirvana is in F# Locrian.
It’s totally C.
Oh, and I think the main reason that the other piece is so clearly in B Locrian is that every downbeat (1 and 4 in 6/8) outlines the B diminished triad, making all the other notes sound like nonharmonic notes--mostly passing tones.
I don't think having a G would hurt it. For example, if I change beats 3 and 4 (delight) in the second measure to G F, it still sounds very much Locrian.
The G is just clearly non-harmonic (a neighbor tone), and so doesn't sound like it could possibly be important to the key.
I think the Bb on the downbeat is part of what throws people who hear the first piece as in Bb minor.
Locrian and Lydian are the most beautiful diatonic modes. They're the most unique, most different. Lydian is the only one with an augmented fourth, and Locrian is the only one with a diminished fifth. In those two scales, the tritone takes the centre of the stage, instead of having a "secondary" role. I believe Locrian is underused because people are too scared to find its inner, unique beauty. I stopped being intimidated by Locrian once I started exploring it and stopped seeing it as something "spooky" and saw it as something beautiful.
I wrote _Equestrian Modes_ to showcase how the diatonic modes can have gain a character very different from the stereotypical associations people make (e.g. Ionian=happy, Aeolian=sad, Lydian=comical or emotional, etc.). Locrian was the most fun to write with. It was a pleasure to make it sound cute, vulnerable, passionate and impulsive. People who don't explore Locrian are really missing out.
I feel the impulse to write a book but I hate leaving long comments. So much of the above is true. Locrian can't be approached as the the other modes which the problem with it on the one hand and on the other it's the beauty of it. It forces us to find odd approaches creating unconventional sounds with dark moods. I love dark moody brooding Metal and it's perfect for something like that. One has to subdue the tonic really, that's the primary idea and any compositional devices that accomplish that will work. Does Pop use Locrian? We're hard pressed to find a song that does. Thanks. Loved this discussion.
Listening to the vocal melody, I hear the root as Ab. The bass line is much more ambiguous.
But it always resolves to the C, to my ears
Jenn W yes, it does sound like it resolves to c, but I think as a 4-3 resolution. In moveable solfege I hear the vocal line as ‘mi re fa-sol fa mi’. I guess that ambiguity is one thing that makes it such a good song-
@@peterjuff It really is a standout in pop!! Things are always better when we can have these types of discussions about them.
Jenn W 💯
I was actually surprised to discover that the melody also sounded like Ab. The bass line was definitely Ab to me, but I expected that to change once the melody took hold. But the melody survived, never coming to rest!
It’s possible that even björk herself doesn’t know as she might be a musician who does everything by ear and is unaware of musicology.
Björk is actually classically trained.
That song is ambiguous, great video man, much more enlighting than the one of bjork
I hear C as well. Brilliant instructional videos keep it up !
Thanks!
C -48 Locrian.
the root is C -48.
This is why C is too high and B is too low. The root is C minus 48 Cents.
Definitely C for me. I cringed when the Bb drone played along!
Playing the C first makes it sound like the root
That reminds of a discussion we had with both bandmates and teachers in Musicology University about the Tone roots of "Sweet Home Alabama". Because we disagree about the note we should play to end the song (some would like to end in G some other in C).
I had not listened to this song before this video and the bass line sounded to me as if it were in Bb Aeolian. Then after listening to the song, with all of the melodic context I can hear the C Locrian, which I would now probably identify this as the tonality of the song.
I cannot comprehend how you can hear this song in Bb Aeolian
C Locrian sounds correct. That B flat sounded miserable.
@3:12 Now the modes, related to their tonic and their names make sense to me. 'Moving your hands to the right' does make it a different mode, but of course the tonic moves as well.
I have always thought 'D Dorian' was names "C Major, in Dorian Mode" (or something). 👍🏼
Very interesting! I definitely hear C as the root. Now I want to write a Locrian melody that uses the b5!