I have just made speaker cable risers from oak wood and i can definitely hear a difference. More fine low-level detail, freer very high frequencies and more dynamic, faster transients and perceived louder peaks. My hardwood floor has underfloor water heating and I believe I have reduced the capacitance of the cables by raising them 6 inches off the floor.. My system is very good at resolving detail. My older Exposure amplifier is -3dB I believe at 100 kHz so it has a very extended frequency response. I do my best to have very clean AC, as little RF as possible and negligible susceptibility to non-audio signals so the amplifier can spend its energy on audio-band signals. Speaker cables are Kimber Crystal 24, length of each side is 4.5 metres or about 14 feet. Another huge improvement was gained by isolating the KEF Reference Three Two loudspeakers from the floor with compliant anti-vibration feet for washing machines. Here again huge amounts of treble energy liberated after isolation, better detail resolution. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
I suspend my cables off the floor with wild horse hair from Mongolia, the difference in sound is incredible. Wrap cable twice then make a suspension support above cables, approximately 2’ 3”. high.
Yes, but you need to burn in those horse hairs for at least a week of continuous listening before they perform at their optimum. Female Mongolian horse hairs will affect the treble more further enhancing fine details while Mongolian male horse hairs are awesome for subwoofer cables.
Be careful with the Female Mongolian horse hairs cables risers. They are only good if they are harvested when the horse is pregnant. Otherwise they might even ruin your sound stage. Now you know!
My stereo system sounds better on Wednesdays, it's really amazing. I challenge everyone to listen to their systems on Wednesdays compared to the rest off the week. You have to have a REALLY GOOD SYSTEM to hear the difference.
It is well known that on Wednesdays the power grid is cleaner as most people have fallen in a numb mid week routine. They flick lights less, fridges are half empty and running less hard, etc. Try a power conditioner the other days. Will blow your -wallet- mind. Must be > $10K. Anything below is garbage... This said I am puzzled. My own audio system sounds better on Friday evenings, after the 1st beer. Can't put my finger on it... 🤔
Hi there. Induction and self induction always influence a current. And it transforms the signal. What is your problem? Want to deny the laws of physics?
I would have to disagree. My $1000 dollar stereo speakers powered by a $500 amplifier with $30000 cables and $40000 cable risers sounds best on Monday at around 7 pm up till 7:30. The soundstage simply gets wider but on Wednesdays, my system sounds like a mono setup.
@@chrisvanderaa6706 So perhaps we should start opening up our amplifiers and moving around the boards inside and then redesigning the circuits at different distances to hear if it sounds different? How about suspending our amplifiers off of the shelf that they're on would that make a difference in sound?
Cable Risers, like so many other aspects of the hobby, are exactly the reason why it's difficult to have audio and speakers as a hobby. Because you can so quickly reach a brick wall in the hobby, where there isn't anything left to do, that people begin to look for more things they can do or desire, so they can continue the hobby. This also causes an Emperors New Clothes effect where the person thinks they hear improvements because they WANT to hear improvements, because otherwise they have to admit the hobby is at another brick wall. Think about it, you get your favorite amp, sources, and processors, combine them with your dream speakers, and set them up in an acoustically friendly room. That's it! Hobby over! Time to put your time somewhere else! But some people don't WANT to stop there, so they have to keep finding ways to continue the hobby. This is where everything from cable risers to Snake Oils to the little disk you just place on your CD player in the 90's that was supposed to "clean up" your digital audio stream. And of course people think they hear a difference. They aren't able to perform a true ABX test between their exact system before the change and after the change, so hearing a slight difference means you didn't just waste your time and money, and you can keep moving forward with the hobby infinitely! Yay!
Just like after you wash your sports car. Always seems faster and better, in reality its not. Its all in our head. Its normal for men to have mental complexes that make us think we're better at things than we are. Many audiophiles think they are trained critical listeners, in reality they have no idea what their doing and won't believe anyone that tells them any different.
@@iowaudioreviews Yeah and it's a major red flag when they say things like "I know my system!, I heard a difference". No, you don't know your system. You will start to forget how it sounds a few seconds after listening and even while you are listening you can only focus on one or two attributes at a time. Blind test or GTFO.
You can dramatically improve the sound quality of your cable lifters if you paint the Tinker Toy surfaces with a green Sharpie. You won't believe how it cleans up the female vocals to the crash of cymbals.
Most important is to burn the cable lifters, cables and voice coils in with continuous listening to heavy metal for at least 2 weeks at max volume. This doesn’t mean burning your speakers so lower the volume slightly at the point when the voice coils start to smoke. Rather than paint, dip those cable lifters in oil before the burn in as the oil will enhance the soundstage much more than any color of cheap paint. The best oil is genuine python oil. Some cheaper oils from other snakes will cause a slight resonant ring through capacitance and inductance effects yielding female voices to be elevated and the soundstage to narrow.
For unshielded cables there is an electric field around the cable when active. Maybe the floor interferes with that. But a few inches from the cable, the intensity of the field decreases. So where the field is most intense it has a clear space for the electric field to happen (and doesn't affect the signal as much as on the floor). Just my snake oil hypothesis.
@@chriswithall2518 Agreed. That was always my theory as well. I felt that synthetic carpet like I have could be the worst offender. but then I see a video where Jay saw a big impact on his hdw floors. Who knows?
A life long friend of mine has a great system, he is really into his music, his front room has 6 windows and patio doors, his wife changed the curtains and the material type and he said it has changed the sound 😁
Hi. Found you via Vinyl Attack. Nice to hear your explanation of some of the cable issues (your speaker cable reminds me in appearance of the first Shunyata signal cables, which they sourced from someone else). I've sold serious cables for about 30 years now. Even with that I avoided risers. However I was wrong, even though my system right now, which is very high resolution, doesn't respond much. All the variables you mentioned are in play but in my case I use monoblocks and the cables are only 5' long. Not much was lying on the carpet. I did put my manufacturer's risers under them and the difference was really fairly slight. Although this company makes some extraordinarily expensive products, the risers aren't at $150 for a pack of 8. The designer thinks the massive "high end" ones perform worse. These are plastic cables with a piece of nylon string stretch between their U shape. The cable just rests on it with a tiny contact area. I'm glad I found you. Always love places where I can continue learning and send friends and customers.
Yeah, isn't this crazy. Several people that I have had over for a listen thought the difference was so clear that they whipped out their phones and ordered some Tinker Toys before they left my room.
@Cody Smith We do that all the time. Chris (from Vinyl Attack) was here and and we did that. He talked about it in a video. I would love to get Gene to come. I have invited him privately and publicly.
Okay, this can make perfect sense on a concrete slab home. There is a grid of rebar in the concrete. The home's electrical system, if it's a relatively new home, within the last 50 years or so, the electrical system is grounded to the rebar in the slab. So, the question then remains. How high off the floor do the cables need to be? Has anybody tested different elevations?
This is the problem with science that's not well understood. It's just arbitrary and maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, maybe it could make it worse. How would you know, other than trusting your brain? PS. IT (brain) LIES TO US. But hey, give it a try. If you think it makes a difference, it probably makes a difference.
Daanny I only come here for the plain truth. You lay everything on the table. It's easy to understand and everything I've learned here matches my own findings. I'm putting into practice everything I've leaned here over the years. Unfortunately currently I don't have room for indoors hifi. But I built a completely sq build. Competing in IASCA SQ daily truck comp this season. I have custom passive crossovers with mylar film caps and sonic caps bypass caps. Braided my own cables with a 7/16 poly ripe center wrapped with custom braided 16gx6 - 28 strand conductors woven by hand each half wrapped in tpfe tape then wrapped as one. Each conductor is wound in opposing directions. Then soildered and terminated on the ends. My hands are still cramped. But man was it worth it. Image and stage jumped to life. Upper vocal ranger. No words. Took me 3 years to get here and still not done. Lol😂 blackhole of hifi! Love ❤️ it. Danny keep it up.
i used to do a lot of FCC compliance work with power supplies where we had to meed requirements for the level of interference we could put back on the power line feeding the equipment under test. i used a $25k spectrum analyzer to read the level of interference we were cause and did what ever it took to get us below the limits.I would add common mode chokes, capacitors across the line and to ground but in the end the layout of the parts was more important than which parts I used. There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy [science]
I'm in the UK and we have carpets in all our rooms. I found a distinct improvement in using small light wooden blocks as risers in my system (mid level LP12 and Musical Fidelity separates). Also keeping interconnects away from mains power cables.
I install PA systems and use a Tone Generator and Probe Kit. Which will allow me to hear the music on the cable just by hovering the wand next to the cable. I can disconnect the speaker and still hear the music on the cable using the probe. Very good tool for finding out where interference is being added to the cables. Tried it at home, cables on nylon mix carpet had a lot of background static. Lifted cables of floor using lego blocks and this removed the static I was hearing on the cables. No noticeable difference at the speaker end. But I believe it would be noticeable on a higher end system.
I don't think microphonics of the speaker cable would make difference when low impedance device such loudspeakers are connected. The signal from amplifier to loudspeaker is rather large, comparing to signal from say from gramophone pick-up. Damn it would be actually easier to notice with low impedance headphones and good headphone amp if there differences. But my guess there wouldn't be difference with loudspeakers, and crossovers actually distort the signal in all possible domains: amplitude, phase, time delay to such degree that the signal summed reproduced loudspeaker other than amplitude is very different from original. I would think of cable risers influence as pure fantasy rather than science.
In my last home I couldn't have the cables on the floor but the was a wooden rail around the room about a foot from the ceiling with hooks screwed into it so I used so sewing thred and hung the cables using it from the hooks and yes the cables gained around 4 foot in length but it made a huge difference even with a low end budget audio system (less than £700 all in turntable, tapedeck, receiver, secondhand speakers)
@@neandrewthal there was less background noise (hum) with the cables hung so wasn't placebo effect. The reason I think was concrete floor with old-school electric underfloor heating (floor was basically a massive kettle element)
Hi Danny. I have been using cable risers for years. The best cheap option is 3 wooden chopsticks and some string tied into a tepee. This costs practically nothing and is an easy way of testing this principle, to see if it can work for you. Give it a whirl.
You really need to use a cable cooker first, followed by the cd demagnetizer and don't forget to check the direction of the electron flow marked on the wire.
I raised my cables off my carpeted floor in my fairly expensive system and the difference was very apparent. I had trouble understanding the lyrics but after I lifted the cables off the floor with some folded pieces of cardboard I could hear every word clearly.
Many thumbs up! LOL Wonderful audiophile world. I have yet to try cable risers. I do have hardwood floor but I think it would make a difference. First, I have to upgrade my speakers with your crossover kits. When I get time, I'll do it.
I recently took a motorsports wiring course. For digital signal wires that connect CANBUS components, not only are you not supposed to run parallel wires, the twists per inch is specified! Very similar to your closer to 90 degree explanation. It cancels noise in high frequency data wires.
Lowes sells a plastic cone shaped tower called a rebar chair. Its 58 cents. It looks good under the cables and it does improve the sound. Improved imaging and focus, is noticeable in my system. Dirt cheap! Looks good and sounds good. All you have to lose is $15 at Lowes. Just try it with a open mind. Yes I am serious.
Excellent advice. My journey followed a similar path. Well after my system achieved a good 3d sound stage I read about cable risers and skeptically tried them and observed similar results. I have used cardboard V risers. My fastest most cost effective was paper coffee cups. Paper has a dielectric coefficient as good as cotton. I am so cheap I saved my morning coffee cups. Cut a V in the top and they work well. 3" tall. Bingo. Currently I don't need them. The speaker cable is sized to travel from the monobloc to the speaker without touching the floor. Now for an even more controversial topic. I find a slight improvement getting power cables up off the carpet. Impact is a slight sense of compression of the sound like you have with a new capacitor. Not as pronounced. Definitely could not pick it out in a controlled ABX test. But once you hear it, it stays in the system. One of those hundred little things that all add up.
More than 30 years ago I had a Hewlett Packard 4800 Vector impedance Meter. I bought it second hand in a computer shop. When I was measuring the impedance from speakers that I had built, there was a strange reading on the meter when I moved the cables an inch or so sideways. They were just on a wooden floor. When I lifted the cables several inches from the floor and moved the cable sideways there was no effect on the meter. I thought maybe it was the radiation of a power cable in the floor but could not find any cable there. So, I'm not at all surprised that cable risers have some effect.
Yes. It's just the laws of physics. Remove or minimize as many variables that can transform an electrical signal. And all transformation is degradation. I am a believer. Now first i need money to buy a high end system, so i can also experience that influence. I like your practical approach to solving the problems in signal paths.
our trips to ikea, purchased some cheap glass tea light holders with little slot designs at the top that could (effectively) cradle my cables. And - dammit - it made quite a difference.
Applied science upsets some people because it basically means that everything matters and everything makes a difference to some extent. Doesn't at all surprise me. Products made from drilled oil always have noticeably stronger negative electrically active properties. I'd be curious if an unbleached undyed untreated cotton or linen blanket/mat in between the wire and the floor would make a noticeable difference, since it's probably the artificial carpet in your room causing the issue with the wire. Hardwood floors might be better but even those have a plastic coating.
Where is the science here? Any controlled listening tests? Any measurements? This isn't science...that would require evidence, not just silly, silly claims. Course, this place hasn't got a lot to do with actual evidence does it...
You may be on to something there. Of all of the rope cores we've used in the middle of the speaker cables the unbleached natural cotton has the best sound, or has the least negative effect on the sound.
Cable risers work for me. I paid $35 for enough 3D printed plastic risers to suspend my cables off the floor. The increase in clarity and focus is obvious. Thanks for sharing, Danny.
Hmmm...not saying it is not an improvement, but if it were me, I would not want the risers made out of a conductive material like plastic or metal. Maybe try wood or ceramic, cork, or even cardboard in your system to test the theory...
In commercial installations involving transmission lines, GIL or Gas Filled Lines use Nitrogen and Sulphur Hexafloride (SF6) as a dielectric. Yes, I know the comparison is quite unlikely given the parameters at audio frequencies but I have oftentimes wondered how long before someone develops GIL audio cables but why go to that expense when your grandkids tinker toys, Lincoln Logs, or Legos wind up in our audio system. As for me, I saving my money for a Flux Capacitor to recap my passive crossovers 😉
in the UK back in the past some audiophiles experimented using fine fishing lines attached to the ceiling lifting the cables & claimed it made a difference i kid you not.
I used to be an electrician and a elevator mechanic and I could trouble shoot basic electric circuits it also seemed the more I learned the more confused it seemed so I am not a electrical engineer. but I just watched a video from a guy who is a ee, somewhere along the way I learned electricity travels along the skin of an electrical wire now in this video I watched it said electrons move from electric motive force(with means the lines of force that radiate out from a wire that has electrical current moving thru it) causes electrons to flow outside the wire not on the skin or thru the core... which would mean being on the floor could very well make a diff... but to be honest it is completely over my head. I have a nice entry level system 1500$ speakers and a 3000$ receiver and A1500$ integrated amp playing airplay or CD player as a source and listening to zeppelin and the like. It probably wouldn't make a difference but it does sound pretty good. I went all thru that to say I like the way Danny explained it and if I was quite a bit upstream in a system I might be interested but since I am in the bottom 80 to 90 percent I will just say thanks for the video
"Skin effect" is a real thing in signal transmission, but it isn't a factor at the low frequencies of audio signals. There are other audiophiles with engineering backgrounds who can do a better job of what actually matters in an audio system and why.
Yep, this skin effect non-sense and cable riser bs has been debunked by audio research over the years. There's published scientific papers out there on it. These kind of audio guys refuse to acknowledge them or read them and just trust their ears. Well science has also taught us our ears and brain can't be trusted either. At least not for this sort thing were memorizing fidelity is required. Why blind tests always debunk this nonsense. There's plenty of audio demonstrations out there that easily fool human hearing and the mind. Statistically much of this is all in our heads.
I've always been told that rising the cables is only really needed if it's a concrete floor with rebar in it. Something about the cables being close to the metal rebar causes an induction effect. I actually don't know what's happening but don't doubt it's noticeable in a high end hifi system. Because what isn't? ;)
I have read that even a regular carpet can generate static electricity that can affect the cables. Risers are one way to get those cables up and away from any potential static or induction interference. Just realize, it's a tweak, not a cure-all!
@@dmark2639 Bbbbbutttt it is a cure for floor generated resistance. In the first system I put the speaker cables on risers-er- cardboard boxes... it removed a haze, a dampened thing on the high frequencies that I simply could not sort until that moment. And what are other tweaks? Let's say I use sorbothane for the feet of some gear or speakers, yes it's a tweak, but the tweak cures a problem. Tweaks are not silly flamboyant flourishes, they are cures for real sonic problems in a room. Spend a few years treating room s and you'll understand that tweaks are, when used properly, cures for genuine sonic interference in the sound your hearing from the system through the room. And by all this I do not mean tweaks bought from $$$$$$$ vendors, I mean an understanding of materials and physics and using the best materials to solve problems, it is amazing what one can do with just the few materials that actually apply to audio, the aforementioned Sorbothane, Rockwool, MDF, mass loaded vinyl... cheers.
Tried it back and forward a few days with my speaker cables, sounded better without the risers and just lying on the carpet. There was definitely a difference, with the risers voices became thinner and almost fatiguing. I now use them to route the power cables over the signal cables but stay away from the speaker cables 👍 Still find it strange to notice a difference 😳
This is yet another example of why double blind testing is needed for tweaks like this. Anything can make a huge difference, whether it's real or not. It is also true for crossover components. It all has to do with expectations. If you change something, and tell the listener to find differences, they will. The brain can't isolate sound from other senses, no matter how hard we try. It's a very interesting phenomenon.
so that is why some musicians need auto tune because we can,t hear the difference and practicing together is just a con .go and see live music if you can,t tell a good band from an ordinary one get another hobby .
@@tobiasjames6949 In which ocean though diving in the Indian Ocean is so much better than the pacific especially if you live there . I will guess you meant water divining with a rod or stick can you hear past your own rhetoric ?.
I started using cable risers after following the uTube channel, A stereophile in Seattle. I can vouch that keeping the power cord off the floor makes a huge difference. As for speaker cable I’m not sure as I’m still looking for the right cable. I’ve sued from I could have bought a small car with the money to lamp cord. Maybe I’ll give you a call and try yours. Good video.
On one of our trips to ikea, purchased some cheap glass tea light holders with little slot designs at the top that could (effectively) cradle my cables. And - dammit - it made quite a difference.
With pinpoint center and wide soundstage you can make, a lot things are sensitive. Doesn't need to be costly along the chain or good room treatment. You can DIY or buy prettier cable raiser. There is a difference doesn't mean you need to change it.
At dealers, shows, that I have seen the use of risers, the explanation was always the same, static electricity in the carpet was affecting the sonics and that it wouldn't have much effect on wooden floors. Never heard of rebar in concrete issue or see how cryogenically treating the risers would improve things. But hell if it works, c'est la vie.
Hi Danny. BANG ON about colorants/pigments in cable insulation/sheathing having sonic impact, in fact system sound/signature can be dialed up at will according to the 'impurities' embedded in the insulation materials. Once a particular mix of compounds which causes dead clean, clear, neutral sound is incorporated, a surprisingly wide range of other 'substances' can be also be included in order to 'voice' the system. Signature actually means dynamic 'patterns' in the reproduced acoustic energy transmission, patterns in energy transmissions have neurological/biochemical effects on the mind/body, some patterns are nice, some patterns are not. Proximity/contact of cables with flooring materials adds another set of patterns into the energy transfer rate, some patterns play nice together, some patterns don't.
Cable companies add compounds to the dielectrics to improve transparency, resolution, neutrality, etc.? Voicing is optional? Talk about secret recipes. That would enormously increase the complexity of cable design.
@@BruceCross Yes but unwittingly for the most part and choosing pigments for aesthetics reasons or model identification. Some cable companies are on to it and deliberately 'noise' the cables but their approach is still a crap shoot. The big trick is knowing which combination of elements produces dead clean, dead clear, dead real sound...the signature of this recipe is that there is no signature if that makes sense.....difficult to comprehend but once heard cannot be unheard and thereafter all cables/systems sound coloured/clouded. Once the clear baseline is set then it is a perfectly simple matter to add voicing at will...want your system to give you a s**tty headache no problem, want your system to be fun no problem, want your system to be therapeutic no problem. I know this concept sounds far out but it is all due to 'patterns' in the sound, usually called noise but is in fact information and at the fundamental level. In depth researching of Bybee Quantum Purifier will give a heads up on physical processes that influence system sound. Cheers.
@@ericmc6482 So most companies aren't intentionally customizing their dielectric material? And the other companies are clueless about the process? Hopefully, somebody has a clue. From what little I could gather on Bybee Quantum Purifiers, they remove low-frequency electronic noise below 2 kHz, also known as 1/f or flicker noise. Whatever that means. Quantum mechanics is only understood by a few physicists, meanwhile I struggled with algebra. Generally, I don't buy tech I can't understand. Honestly, it sounds more controversial than cable risers, but then I looked up the company and they do offer a 30-day return policy.
@@BruceCross Hi Bruce, I just lost a long reply. Yes AFAIK no companies are deliberately choosing colorants for their signature/voice properties and yes it seems that most cable companies are essentially clueless. Yes it's all to do with 1/f noise and materials all have their individual dynamic 1/f noise spectrums. Noise drives/excites system noise interactively/recursively so yes a cable change can markedly change the 'character' of a system despite LCR values being 'same'. Signal is energy transfer, Energy Transfer Rate is not constant Einstein's c but subject to dynamic field conditions, surround a conductor with a substance and the ETR will be dynamically moderated/modulated according to the surrounding material which is resolved to signal noise but is actually information (in the form of patterns) about the insulation material. Jack Bybee device is amortizing or 'whitening' the ETR which reduces 1/f noise and consequent effects on system subjective sound. JB's approach is not perfectly white and whist diminishing 1/f noise and consequent dynamic excess noise still leaves identifiable faint signature. My approach is to rigidly 'clock' ETR (no patterns) and in so doing a whole bunch of dependencies 'magically' disappear leaving dead clean clear natural sounding 3D audio repro. That said patterns can then be deliberately introduced and this opens a whole new world lol. I was serious in my comment about headache, in the name of science I have created an insulation formulation that causes nasty headache in four minutes and lingering three days, confirmed by experiment repeat three weeks later.. Physiologically/neurologically beneficial compounds can be incorporated too, stoning or DMTing a pub crowd through the PA is perfectly doable lmao. So in conclusion expect cables to influence/control system dynamic noise behaviours and physiological responses, so far AFAIK no cable manufacturers have any real clue about this and audiophiles are similarly lost in the wilderness still searching for that 'right' system sound but will never attain it without what I have planned. Thiese links may interest you and reading between the lines explains a whole lot of what is happening to human behaviours/health in dense modern cities with associated high level EMRs. Cheers. www.researchgate.net/publication/28764625_Photon_Induced_Non-Local_Effects_of_General_Anesthetics_on_the_Brain czcams.com/video/21Z4947fl_s/video.html
@@ericmc6482 Forgive me if I only speak in generalities, since the science is over my head. Yes, I could see how the conductor signal could be modulated by the dielectric, especially with the electric and magnetic fields. You had me searching for acronyms. ETR is Electron Transport Rate or Energy Transfer Ratio? Your explanation of Jack Bybee's approach vs. your own is beyond me, except that it reduces noise. Do you think your approach is marketable and affordable? How surreal that dielectric compounds can have sinister effects on humans, but healing effects, too. Passing magnetic pulses through a chemical substance to influence the brain is mind-boggling science. If I understood the video, electromagnetic energy transfer at specific frequencies play a major role in human biology, even at the level of protein molecules, DNA, and cell membranes. No, I don't understand it, but it's fascinating. If designer peptides can treat cancer/HIV, it would be wonderful. Yes, EMR pollution in crowded cities has even more frightening consequences. Who can deny the overlap of resonances with music? Can listening to good music heal us? Possibly.
My HEMP insulated wires sound even better!! But only if I hang them from organic silk threads. Actually, 11 gauge RG-8 Coax is a fantastic sounding speaker wire and I would sincerely love to see a comparison. I would buy the RG-8 and mail it to you to compare.
I've used cable risers for a few years now. I'm not 100% sure I hear a difference but, I just made some cheap ones cutting up a 2x4. Cost me $3 and had the hardware store make the cuts. I have no problem using them because they cost next to nothing.
Danny - you always bring "UP" the best subjects. Wink - grin... Now, because of this video, the price of Tinker Toys is going to go way up on Amazon. Hahaha All the best to you and yours, Kevin
How to do you measure the depth, width, height and layering of the imaging and sound stage? In the past I’ve put bits of tape on the front and side walls marking positions of where certain effects, instruments or vocals come from, Swapping out bits of gear or moving room treatment makes a serious difference to how it’s all presented.
@@lloyd.8272 yes it does but I am not buying setting speaker wire or any other wires for that on toys is going to make any difference in any of those things. To answer your question crosstalk, separation, reverberation and reflection and SNR and noise floor all can be measured and will effect our Psychoacoustic perception. Also placebo effect will effect how we perceive sound. That is all I know but I am not an engineer either. 😊
I watched your video on getting the speaker cables off of the floor. I didn't want that to be a thing. Two months later my girlfriend cleaned up the living room and took all the cables off the floor and stuck them under the tv to get them out of the way. When I woke up I didn't know she had done anything but she was playing music and I could tell right away something had changed. It was so obvious that it was better, I could hear things in the music that I've never heard and she plays these songs a lot. Seeing 2 garbage bags by the front door told me she had cleaned up the spot where she sits on the floor in front of the tv. I knew without looking that the wires weren't on the floor anymore. Does it make a difference, way more than you think it will, get them off the floor, the difference just might shock you. It's noticeable immediately.
It's a win-win.... Buy & try the Tinker Toys, and if you don't like it, give them to some kids. Somebody wins! And, it's not some crappy plastic toy that will go into landfill... it's a biodegradable solution!
I think it is worth saying the obvious BTW. The sounds that make that final big difference in realism in sound stage are in the micro details. There are a lot of things that can muffle these tiny micro or pico volt signals. This is where coupling capacitors, connectors, teflon dielectric, and cable architecture all come into play. So your comment that most people will never hear this is spot on. Most systems while very nice at their level just do not play these sounds that spook us and excite us. When it all comes together it is pretty amazing. I can spontaneously sense the human emotion of the artist singing. It is captured by a microphone and ends up years later in my sound room on demand. It is like that observation when a mother spontaneously lactates upon hearing her baby cry while not responding to any other child in the room. It is in our DNA, and we respond when it is done right.
I'm curious about the sound difference using self-powered speakers and digital signals (AES) (or line level in shielded signal cable/conduit) to the monitors and how they compare to separate amplifiers. Personally, I have found self-powered systems to work quite well.
I use to have my cables on the floor. I could hear some distortion but thought maybe it was a loose connection somewhere. One day while moving my speakers around I drapped the cables over my chair to get them out of the way and when I listen to them no distortion. I thought hmmm it couldnt be but lets see so I placed the cables back on the floor and there was that static sound. When asked others as to why most said snake oil. Then one person said it all depends on whats underneath your flooring.
I use cork sanding blocks on a hardwood floor with Nordost Red Dawn on a modest setup (Rega CD and a 10 watt PSE). And it gives a better detailed bass.
It's funny that it is hard, even painful to accept it could make a difference. Unbelievable is is difficult to accept even when it is front of your eyes /ears. But if it works on your system, easy to try and is basically free, the pain will go away.
I believe Danny believes everything he hears is a thing. I hear my Ar3 speekers fom the beginning and its a thing. Everything Danny says is bad is in these speakers and yet they produce a fantastic sound. 🤷
Plastic "pizza savers" (those little white plastic tables in pizza boxes) should work fine, especially the ones that are open like a tripod and don't have the "table top" part which could introduce more dielectric absorption.
I would be interested in a variable riser system that could lift or raise the cables, thus providing a listening in real time experiment. This might also help to ascertain what height is optimal for the room/floor material. Perhaps different heights would provide different results for different cables, environments or even sources or types of music. I envision a lift from above setup so the 'lifting' method does not affect the cable. Or perhaps a string pulled X lifter. C'mon engineers, if you build it, they will listen...
Wood floors are held down with flat steel nails (they are below the surface so you can't see them). Carpeted floors are on sheet goods that are held down with steel screws. When you complain about iron / steel in connectors, this is the same thing steel along the speaker wires will have similar problems. Ideally when you use spacers do not place them uniformly to prevent a high Q situation (this also applies to computer wires especially long runs).
Love it, I just recently saw Chris's video on this when he visted with you. I have your 24-strand cables and will try this very cheap tweek. I ordered the Tinker Toys and I thnk they will be safe as my grandkids play with Legos, although I guess Legos would work as well LoL
Recently i made some cable risers for 2 systems i have.. one system is on a wooden floor and the other sitting on a concrete floor. Both made differences in clarity/ separation and definition. As a result i also found the volume didn't need to be turned up as much to enjoy the definition of instruments and with one of the systems i really noticed a difference in soundstage, there is a depth to the the positioning on the instruments.
@Cody Smith Hey, you have yet to answer my question regarding "controlling one's Dreams". So do you believe that this is possible (just as I described above) or do you also contend that what I am suggesting concerning Dreams is simply non-sense / impossible?
Cool !. You can also place bits of paper, cardboard, cloth (organic hemp, organic cotton, silk, etc, watch out about colourants) in the cradles and you might find slight change/voicing. My suggestion to Danny of white Titanium Dioxide paint is because the Tio2 pigment gives a nice damping quality/voicing, muting the highs/tops a little but depending on system this can be advantageous. White sheathed power cables and signal cables have same property and I find black cables have a 'hardness' signature in comparison.......maybe Apple know something they are not saying lol. Please let us know what you find with your experiment. Cheers..
I run my speaker cables under the floor of my house so I use cable lowerers. The difference in sound is amazing...the bass is lower and the high notes are more defined and the sound stage is wider and more open. Also I have removed all the tubes and transistors, capacitors and resistors in my equipment as they cause phase and harmonic and IM distortion. You're probably wondering how I get amplification without the above mentioned components. It's classified information that I'm not allowed to reveal, but suffice it to say it involves plasma molecular anaerobic junctioning. You will be hearing more about this in the coming months if you read the science journals that deal in audiology, acoustics and sound wave insanity.
I have chunky speaker cables and do run them under the floor , keeps my wife happy and does sound great but I but that down to the cable not any other factor.
I have a physics degree, but don't claim to be a physicist or any kind of authority on electrical engineering, but what I did learn from the few introductory papers in electrical theory I took, was that when a current passes through a wire, there is a heck of a lot more going on than just electrons moving in a conductor. The properties of the resulting fields, frequency dependant inductance and reactance... sure you can measure them or make some kind of inference about them theoretically, but the behaviour of current is extremely complex. I always roll my eyes when I hear people insist that what you measure is what you get... I would compare that to dropping a line over the side of a boat to measure the depth and then claiming to know everything about the ocean. Sure, Danny uses measurements to determine some primary parameters of acoustic systems, but he understands what he is measuring, it's limitations, what the measurement is telling him and what it isn't. I changed out my speaker cable for the helical construction type of cable that Danny uses here, because I immediately recognised when I saw it, that the geometrical configuration of the cable would have a significant effect on the fields created around the cable, and therefore the self-induced field effects on the signal. I can't say that lifting the cables off a non-electrically neutral surface will make an improvement, but I can guarantee it will make a difference to the signal. If you alter the field, you alter the signal.
@@edd2771 How is suggesting putting your wire up on junk you have lying around the house, asking for your money? Why are you asking other people for answers? Why don't you get your own answers? I expect that Danny doesn't give you the answers you want because he cannot say whether a given modification will be a subjective improvement to you. he is telling you to try it and find out for yourself. As for double blind tests, If you can't hear a difference, don't do it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head, but you will never know until you try things for yourself. Cheer up Ed, it's just a hobby.
@@edd2771 Ed, what are you doing? Are you here just because you like arguing about nothing with strangers? I am not interested. It's boring and pointless. If you disagree, I really don't care, just say what you believe, maybe I'll read it maybe I won't. No one is obligated to engage with you.
When cd players were first introduced it was claimed that because they all measure the same they all sound the same, which they clearly didn't then someone analysed phase jitter and that explained a lot of the difference. Could there be something thats not being measured that relates to risers?
@@philspencelayh5464 That's exactly the thing, just like the early days of CD before jitter was known to be a thing, we don't know what we don't know. And even if we do know a measurable phenomena exists that affects the the signal, in the case of fields, even if could quantify some property of the fields, how do we determine it's meaning? We are dealing with a highly complex system where a current creates a fields in 3 dimensional space which acts on itself and in turn affects the current creating it and the effect varies with respect to frequency and a multitude of other factors, add to that that every medium in which the field exists has a dielectric coefficient that influences the field, and therefore the current, and it all gets very complex, very quickly. All you can know for sure is that every factor that changes in the signal path has an effect, whether it's audible, good, bad, who knows. Lifting cables of the floor and therefore changing the dielectric properties of the medium might sound better, might sound worse...All you can do is experiment and listen.
@@AT-wl9yq if using cable risers produce a hearable difference in the sound, it should be possible to measure these effects. Otherwise there are only „earwitness“ accounts, made by people with flawed and imperfect measuring tools (human hearing). Of course its totally fine for people to use cable lifters if that’s what makes them happy. But if you make scientific claims you have to be prepared to give scientific prove.
@@HenneB I can't say if they make a difference or not because I never tried them. The reason I said what are you going to measure, is we can't measure everything we hear. "Of course its totally fine for people to use cable lifters if that’s what makes them happy. But if you make scientific claims you have to be prepared to give scientific prove." That's something else entirely. The experience I have with people who claim "science", is they talk about it but never do it. For example, I'm sure you've heard of Audio Science Review (I think that's what its called.). He seems like a nice guy, but when I pointed out that he doesn't do anything even remotely resembling science, he seemed to get a little upset. But when I made my case, which is fairly simple, the discussion was over. He has a channel to build, and he's not going to let real science get in the way of that. That's why I'm asking, what are you going to measure. Do you want to win an argument, or do you want to get to the truth. If you want to win an argument, no measurements, test, evidence, etc... will ever do unless I get the results you want me to get. If you want the truth, then you need to use real science. So unless you can come up with something real, we can't have a discussion.
@@cbts001a4 That's a typical response for someone who doesn't know how science works. Lets have another look at my question. "Its a good idea but what would you measure?" Now is that so complicated you can't give me an answer? Its a very simple question.
Hum!!! Every thing I tried from Danny’s videos made a difference on the sound of my system… so I guess I’d better move cables that rides close coupled all along the baseboard radiator!
My building has cement floors and it is quite audible the difference between cables on the floor and off the floor. I have tested it multiple times and the results stand...
Find a way to do a blind test. Have someone else repeatedly move the cables for you, but you can't see what they're doing and they don't tell you. Best test would be to move the cables multiple times during the same song. You don't know when the cables are on the floor or on stands. And the person should try to trick you. Then see if you can really tell the difference!
would this be the same for power cables and interconnects, or only something that affects speaker cables. Not that my system is anywhere near the level that it would make a difference but just curious. Thanks for the great video Danny.
Great content as always!!! For all the skeptics and doubters, take a look at the power lines outside high above. These cables are bare with no cover or insulation. In comparison to the gauge in your home they are relatively thin and carry energy to large neighborhoods. They can do so as a result of their free air properties. Which leads to my question, what about testing a set of exposed cables strung like power lines from amp to speakers with the care to not short out the amp? Worth the test?
It might prove that Danny's braided insulated speaker wire is part of the problem. Overhead power transmission lines are insulated by the air between conductors. Overhead power transmission lines are air insulated to save weight and cost. When I tested separated conductors I used insulated wire. Since the capacitance C = KeA/d the dielectric constant of the insulation times the permittivity of free space only reduces the effective distance between air separated conductors a tiny amount. The effective distance between spaced insulated conductors is greater than the distance between the outer surface of the insulation.
No offense, but that is completely incorrect. Transmission lines have no insulation because of cost.. Nothing else.. They are suspended on standoffs t I create electrical isolation.. Nothing else..
I just made some risers out of a semi-foam material for my cardas clear light speaker cables and like you said the soundstage just got more refined. It improves the layering and dept much more. I didn't spend a dime just materials I already have. This is surprising.
Swimming poll noodles are cheap and effective and come in a range of attractive colours depening on your tastes .I am serious $10 for a three pack the divorce lawyer might cost more but who needs an unsympathetic partner ?
I've got my speakers up against a rattle-colorizing LCD projection TV. If I could somehow get it out of the way, it'd make a huge difference I suspect. In the video I made last night, I imagined Danny trying to listen to my system, but wanting to move the TV cus it was colorizing the sound to much. If a second person was here, I could move it. Trouble is, there's nowhere TO move it. I have made risers to keep speaker cables away from power cords before. Mostly just OCD tho.
I tried tinker toys for my wires. I found a set at a yard sale. It didn't sound much different but it may be that my system is not as detailed. After viewing this video, the price of these tinker toys just went up 💯% .😎 BTW your Amps might benefit from iso platforms? Greg
Are you serious! I've had Cardas,, Audio quest,and still have Some Kimber,and. Super High end MIT cable's.but, found some incredible results with just 12 ga.romex! The trick is,slit the insulation and remove the Black and Red solid core wires.then,fix the end of those wires under a weight,then on the other end , stick them in a drill,and twist them to eliminate all RF frequency.if you do it right,it will astound you!!!
I really have to recommend a video by "The Science Asylum" called "Circuit Energy doesn't FLOW the way you THINK!" for people to start to understand how electro magnetic fields work, really changes ones view of things like cables. I know a bit about EMF since school and understanding Maxwell's laws really changes your view of electronics and EMI.
There's also another one called "The Big Misconception About Electricity" by "Veritasium". Its description starts with "The misconception is that electrons carry potential energy around a complete conducting loop, transferring their energy to the load." The misconception ? Say what ?
@@bossybill7437 Have a look at the video and that would be obvious, because it's very counter-intuitive and not something that would be clear unless you dabbled with Maxwell's laws
@@tobiaxelsson Maybe you misunderstand what I said... I've already watch your video and agree. It's saying the same as the one I referenced but in a different way.
You realize that double blind means not only the person doing the listening, but the person doing the switching has to be blind to the differences? Sorry, but the guy switching the cable risers in or out of the system will know which way is which.
I’m trying to find the video where someone has speaker wire connected to an oscilloscope. Simply lifting the wire of the bench you can see the noise on the scope disappear. I think it was Cardas or Danny himself who did the video. If you can measure a difference on a scope then you can hear a difference on a resolving enough system.
I lifted the cable to my fridge, milk lasts now 3 month longer...ok occasionally the fridge is now humming vivaldi in the middle of the night, but we got used to that...just hoping the fridge doesn't discover various metal genres
I like the tinker toys! Great simple tweak. What difference would be made if you shortened your cables? The ones behind you seem to be too long and are snaking around some.
So how do I manage the 50 cables hanging off the back of my equipment? I can't seperate all those cables in the cabinet. Is there a similar cable management system for all the power, RCA and speaker wire mess behind the cabinet?
Wondering if the cable manufacturer recommends that customers put their cables on risers? And if so, does that mean they should just be making a better cable that does not require this tweak? Also, are their any instrumented measurements that show a signal difference? Just wondering.
If you aren’t single and start using cable risers, you will be soon.
morons should hang these cables with strings to the ceiling for better sound quality
😂😂😂👍
Whether they work or not, nobody disagrees they are ugly.
The wife's been asking for a riser for weeks..
Imagine how the family dog would interact with them!
I have just made speaker cable risers from oak wood and i can definitely hear a difference. More fine low-level detail, freer very high frequencies and more dynamic, faster transients and perceived louder peaks. My hardwood floor has underfloor water heating and I believe I have reduced the capacitance of the cables by raising them 6 inches off the floor..
My system is very good at resolving detail. My older Exposure amplifier is -3dB I believe at 100 kHz so it has a very extended frequency response. I do my best to have very clean AC, as little RF as possible and negligible susceptibility to non-audio signals so the amplifier can spend its energy on audio-band signals. Speaker cables are Kimber Crystal 24, length of each side is 4.5 metres or about 14 feet. Another huge improvement was gained by isolating the KEF Reference Three Two loudspeakers from the floor with compliant anti-vibration feet for washing machines. Here again huge amounts of treble energy liberated after isolation, better detail resolution.
All the best, Rob in Switzerland
I suspend my cables off the floor with wild horse hair from Mongolia, the difference in sound is incredible.
Wrap cable twice then make a suspension support above cables, approximately 2’ 3”. high.
Yes, but you need to burn in those horse hairs for at least a week of continuous listening before they perform at their optimum. Female Mongolian horse hairs will affect the treble more further enhancing fine details while Mongolian male horse hairs are awesome for subwoofer cables.
I will follow your instructions, hopefully this will solve some problems I’m having…thanks
@@zenos.5315 If it fails, you should try some Egyptian camel hairs.
Be careful with the Female Mongolian horse hairs cables risers. They are only good if they are harvested when the horse is pregnant. Otherwise they might even ruin your sound stage. Now you know!
@@PierreVilleneuve88 Did Google just ban your comment?
Cable risers look like train tracks and that's why I want them. Choo choo
A man of culture 😂
Cable risers? Why not. It’s a nice addition to a sophisticated megabuck junkyard of a living room. 👌
My stereo system sounds better on Wednesdays, it's really amazing. I challenge everyone to listen to their systems on Wednesdays compared to the rest off the week. You have to have a REALLY GOOD SYSTEM to hear the difference.
It is well known that on Wednesdays the power grid is cleaner as most people have fallen in a numb mid week routine.
They flick lights less, fridges are half empty and running less hard, etc.
Try a power conditioner the other days. Will blow your -wallet- mind. Must be > $10K. Anything below is garbage...
This said I am puzzled. My own audio system sounds better on Friday evenings, after the 1st beer. Can't put my finger on it... 🤔
Hi there. Induction and self induction always influence a current. And it transforms the signal. What is your problem? Want to deny the laws of physics?
I would have to disagree. My $1000 dollar stereo speakers powered by a $500 amplifier with $30000 cables and $40000 cable risers sounds best on Monday at around 7 pm up till 7:30. The soundstage simply gets wider but on Wednesdays, my system sounds like a mono setup.
@@chrisvanderaa6706 So perhaps we should start opening up our amplifiers and moving around the boards inside and then redesigning the circuits at different distances to hear if it sounds different? How about suspending our amplifiers off of the shelf that they're on would that make a difference in sound?
@@jeffmpvd7689 Haven,t you got a Hover platform yet ? so 2,000s catch ut to modern times!.
Cable Risers, like so many other aspects of the hobby, are exactly the reason why it's difficult to have audio and speakers as a hobby. Because you can so quickly reach a brick wall in the hobby, where there isn't anything left to do, that people begin to look for more things they can do or desire, so they can continue the hobby. This also causes an Emperors New Clothes effect where the person thinks they hear improvements because they WANT to hear improvements, because otherwise they have to admit the hobby is at another brick wall. Think about it, you get your favorite amp, sources, and processors, combine them with your dream speakers, and set them up in an acoustically friendly room. That's it! Hobby over! Time to put your time somewhere else! But some people don't WANT to stop there, so they have to keep finding ways to continue the hobby. This is where everything from cable risers to Snake Oils to the little disk you just place on your CD player in the 90's that was supposed to "clean up" your digital audio stream. And of course people think they hear a difference. They aren't able to perform a true ABX test between their exact system before the change and after the change, so hearing a slight difference means you didn't just waste your time and money, and you can keep moving forward with the hobby infinitely! Yay!
Great post. It's the honest, and hard truth.
Sounds like you are not a crazy person. What are you doing here lol?
He's not selling snake oil, unless you are suggesting a conspiracy theory where Danny own's Tinker Toys... Clearly that's ridiculous!
Just like after you wash your sports car. Always seems faster and better, in reality its not. Its all in our head. Its normal for men to have mental complexes that make us think we're better at things than we are. Many audiophiles think they are trained critical listeners, in reality they have no idea what their doing and won't believe anyone that tells them any different.
@@iowaudioreviews Yeah and it's a major red flag when they say things like "I know my system!, I heard a difference". No, you don't know your system. You will start to forget how it sounds a few seconds after listening and even while you are listening you can only focus on one or two attributes at a time. Blind test or GTFO.
You can dramatically improve the sound quality of your cable lifters if you paint the Tinker Toy surfaces with a green Sharpie. You won't believe how it cleans up the female vocals to the crash of cymbals.
Man, must be some good female stuff in the Sharpie.
using a black sharpie, helps lower the noise floor.
Blue had a negligible effect and brown was downright horrible.
ok, but which one opens the soundstage? These guys are always listening to closed one :D
Most important is to burn the cable lifters, cables and voice coils in with continuous listening to heavy metal for at least 2 weeks at max volume. This doesn’t mean burning your speakers so lower the volume slightly at the point when the voice coils start to smoke. Rather than paint, dip those cable lifters in oil before the burn in as the oil will enhance the soundstage much more than any color of cheap paint. The best oil is genuine python oil. Some cheaper oils from other snakes will cause a slight resonant ring through capacitance and inductance effects yielding female voices to be elevated and the soundstage to narrow.
For unshielded cables there is an electric field around the cable when active. Maybe the floor interferes with that. But a few inches from the cable, the intensity of the field decreases. So where the field is most intense it has a clear space for the electric field to happen (and doesn't affect the signal as much as on the floor). Just my snake oil hypothesis.
emphasis on unshielded, which none of these thicc ass cables are
The impact is an exponential decrease as distance increases. IE even a couple inches makes a difference.
All depends what the floor is made of. and its effect on L & C.
@@chriswithall2518 Agreed. That was always my theory as well. I felt that synthetic carpet like I have could be the worst offender. but then I see a video where Jay saw a big impact on his hdw floors. Who knows?
A life long friend of mine has a great system, he is really into his music, his front room has 6 windows and patio doors, his wife changed the curtains and the material type and he said it has changed the sound 😁
the mentally ill dont know they are mentally ill
My neighbor is gonna wonder where his mailbox’s 4x4 post went😳🤣👍😎.
Danny. You might just be the best audio troll youtube channel in history.
How did they change the measurements?
Hi. Found you via Vinyl Attack. Nice to hear your explanation of some of the cable issues (your speaker cable reminds me in appearance of the first Shunyata signal cables, which they sourced from someone else). I've sold serious cables for about 30 years now. Even with that I avoided risers. However I was wrong, even though my system right now, which is very high resolution, doesn't respond much. All the variables you mentioned are in play but in my case I use monoblocks and the cables are only 5' long. Not much was lying on the carpet. I did put my manufacturer's risers under them and the difference was really fairly slight. Although this company makes some extraordinarily expensive products, the risers aren't at $150 for a pack of 8. The designer thinks the massive "high end" ones perform worse. These are plastic cables with a piece of nylon string stretch between their U shape. The cable just rests on it with a tiny contact area. I'm glad I found you. Always love places where I can continue learning and send friends and customers.
I loved tinker toys as a kid. Now I have an excuse to go out and buy some !!
This is new levels of audiophile insanity. You couldn't make this up and yet here we are.
You are in the first stage of the Five Stages of Grief.
Yeah, isn't this crazy. Several people that I have had over for a listen thought the difference was so clear that they whipped out their phones and ordered some Tinker Toys before they left my room.
@Cody Smith We do that all the time. Chris (from Vinyl Attack) was here and and we did that. He talked about it in a video. I would love to get Gene to come. I have invited him privately and publicly.
Okay, this can make perfect sense on a concrete slab home. There is a grid of rebar in the concrete. The home's electrical system, if it's a relatively new home, within the last 50 years or so, the electrical system is grounded to the rebar in the slab.
So, the question then remains. How high off the floor do the cables need to be? Has anybody tested different elevations?
This is the problem with science that's not well understood. It's just arbitrary and maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, maybe it could make it worse. How would you know, other than trusting your brain? PS. IT (brain) LIES TO US.
But hey, give it a try. If you think it makes a difference, it probably makes a difference.
@@erics.4113 He could raise his cables 2 feet off the floor and see if it continues to get better . ..
To minimise this effect you could put the hifi in one of the bedrooms and sleep downstairs, if you live alone.
Daanny I only come here for the plain truth. You lay everything on the table. It's easy to understand and everything I've learned here matches my own findings. I'm putting into practice everything I've leaned here over the years. Unfortunately currently I don't have room for indoors hifi. But I built a completely sq build. Competing in IASCA SQ daily truck comp this season. I have custom passive crossovers with mylar film caps and sonic caps bypass caps. Braided my own cables with a 7/16 poly ripe center wrapped with custom braided 16gx6 - 28 strand conductors woven by hand each half wrapped in tpfe tape then wrapped as one. Each conductor is wound in opposing directions. Then soildered and terminated on the ends. My hands are still cramped. But man was it worth it. Image and stage jumped to life. Upper vocal ranger. No words. Took me 3 years to get here and still not done. Lol😂 blackhole of hifi! Love ❤️ it. Danny keep it up.
i used to do a lot of FCC compliance work with power supplies where we had to meed requirements for the level of interference we could put back on the power line feeding the equipment under test. i used a $25k spectrum analyzer to read the level of interference we were cause and did what ever it took to get us below the limits.I would add common mode chokes, capacitors across the line and to ground but in the end the layout of the parts was more important than which parts I used.
There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy [science]
I'm in the UK and we have carpets in all our rooms. I found a distinct improvement in using small light wooden blocks as risers in my system (mid level LP12 and Musical Fidelity separates). Also keeping interconnects away from mains power cables.
I use monster cable and tried it both ways. I didn't notice any difference.
I install PA systems and use a Tone Generator and Probe Kit. Which will allow me to hear the music on the cable just by hovering the wand next to the cable. I can disconnect the speaker and still hear the music on the cable using the probe. Very good tool for finding out where interference is being added to the cables.
Tried it at home, cables on nylon mix carpet had a lot of background static. Lifted cables of floor using lego blocks and this removed the static I was hearing on the cables. No noticeable difference at the speaker end. But I believe it would be noticeable on a higher end system.
Great observation. Can you please give details of the cable tracer setup you used ?. Thanks.
@@ericmc6482 Greenlee 601K-G Basic Tone and Probe Kit, there are cheaper versions.
@@mrplainlazy Thanks.
I don't think microphonics of the speaker cable would make difference when low impedance device such loudspeakers are connected. The signal from amplifier to loudspeaker is rather large, comparing to signal from say from gramophone pick-up. Damn it would be actually easier to notice with low impedance headphones and good headphone amp if there differences. But my guess there wouldn't be difference with loudspeakers, and crossovers actually distort the signal in all possible domains: amplitude, phase, time delay to such degree that the signal summed reproduced loudspeaker other than amplitude is very different from original. I would think of cable risers influence as pure fantasy rather than science.
@@pliedtka "My guess....", Clueless.
In my last home I couldn't have the cables on the floor but the was a wooden rail around the room about a foot from the ceiling with hooks screwed into it so I used so sewing thred and hung the cables using it from the hooks and yes the cables gained around 4 foot in length but it made a huge difference even with a low end budget audio system (less than £700 all in turntable, tapedeck, receiver, secondhand speakers)
Sorry, placebo. Try a blind test.
@@neandrewthal there was less background noise (hum) with the cables hung so wasn't placebo effect. The reason I think was concrete floor with old-school electric underfloor heating (floor was basically a massive kettle element)
Hi Danny. I have been using cable risers for years. The best cheap option is 3 wooden chopsticks and some string tied into a tepee. This costs practically nothing and is an easy way of testing this principle, to see if it can work for you. Give it a whirl.
When you see one’s for £100s each, it’s clearly a rip off.
You really need to use a cable cooker first, followed by the cd demagnetizer and don't forget to check the direction of the electron flow marked on the wire.
Just make sure you aren't chuckling the baby out with the bath water
Solid advice.. appreciate it.
Oh boy, here we go…
Oh boy, where do we go from here?
I raised my cables off my carpeted floor in my fairly expensive system and the difference was very apparent. I had trouble understanding the lyrics but after I lifted the cables off the floor with some folded pieces of cardboard I could hear every word clearly.
I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic, which is hilarious in its own right
@@HiJon89 same 🤣
@@HiJon89 I’m serious but I’m glad you got a chuckle.
@@HiJon89
I think he's being serious.
I use XL sized open air raised egg crates.
Much better than folded carboard pieces in my experience.
Really makes more natural sound quacks !
Many thumbs up! LOL Wonderful audiophile world. I have yet to try cable risers. I do have hardwood floor but I think it would make a difference. First, I have to upgrade my speakers with your crossover kits. When I get time, I'll do it.
I recently took a motorsports wiring course. For digital signal wires that connect CANBUS components, not only are you not supposed to run parallel wires, the twists per inch is specified! Very similar to your closer to 90 degree explanation. It cancels noise in high frequency data wires.
no radio frequency in speaker signals, so the digital example does not apply.
Lowes sells a plastic cone shaped tower called a rebar chair. Its 58 cents. It looks good under the cables and it does improve the sound. Improved imaging and focus, is noticeable in my system. Dirt cheap! Looks good and sounds good. All you have to lose is $15 at Lowes. Just try it with a open mind. Yes I am serious.
Been using rebar chairs for years and yeah they do make nice improvement !.
Excellent advice. My journey followed a similar path. Well after my system achieved a good 3d sound stage I read about cable risers and skeptically tried them and observed similar results.
I have used cardboard V risers. My fastest most cost effective was paper coffee cups. Paper has a dielectric coefficient as good as cotton. I am so cheap I saved my morning coffee cups. Cut a V in the top and they work well. 3" tall. Bingo. Currently I don't need them. The speaker cable is sized to travel from the monobloc to the speaker without touching the floor.
Now for an even more controversial topic. I find a slight improvement getting power cables up off the carpet. Impact is a slight sense of compression of the sound like you have with a new capacitor. Not as pronounced. Definitely could not pick it out in a controlled ABX test. But once you hear it, it stays in the system. One of those hundred little things that all add up.
I'm like you. I look for low cost tweaks that can help. Find a half dozen of them and things become noticeable. I can't afford $2,000 amps, ect.
More than 30 years ago I had a Hewlett Packard 4800 Vector impedance Meter. I bought it second hand in a computer shop. When I was measuring the impedance from speakers that I had built, there was a strange reading on the meter when I moved the cables an inch or so sideways. They were just on a wooden floor. When I lifted the cables several inches from the floor and moved the cable sideways there was no effect on the meter. I thought maybe it was the radiation of a power cable in the floor but could not find any cable there. So, I'm not at all surprised that cable risers have some effect.
No other cables under the floor, but what about next to them?
@@TheMatsushitaMan I think they were 5 feet next to the speaker cables.
At what test frequency did you see that behaviour ?
@@iamsometimes6712 I do not remember. It's a long time ago. I don't have the HP meter anymore so I can't test it again.
My dog walks on my 10 gauge Belden 5000 series left speaker cable to get to his nap location.
Yes. It's just the laws of physics. Remove or minimize as many variables that can transform an electrical signal. And all transformation is degradation. I am a believer. Now first i need money to buy a high end system, so i can also experience that influence. I like your practical approach to solving the problems in signal paths.
our trips to ikea, purchased some cheap glass tea light holders with little slot designs at the top that could (effectively) cradle my cables. And - dammit - it made quite a difference.
Pro Tip - Concrete rebar plastic “chairs” are real cheap and easily available from hardware/trade stores, work a treat.
Great idea!
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks. Usually they are grey plastic, a spray with white paint (TiO2 pigment) would improve WAF lol.
Applied science upsets some people because it basically means that everything matters and everything makes a difference to some extent. Doesn't at all surprise me. Products made from drilled oil always have noticeably stronger negative electrically active properties. I'd be curious if an unbleached undyed untreated cotton or linen blanket/mat in between the wire and the floor would make a noticeable difference, since it's probably the artificial carpet in your room causing the issue with the wire. Hardwood floors might be better but even those have a plastic coating.
Where is the science here? Any controlled listening tests? Any measurements? This isn't science...that would require evidence, not just silly, silly claims. Course, this place hasn't got a lot to do with actual evidence does it...
You may be on to something there. Of all of the rope cores we've used in the middle of the speaker cables the unbleached natural cotton has the best sound, or has the least negative effect on the sound.
@@bwoody1090 hello bigcorpshill
Cable risers work for me. I paid $35 for enough 3D printed plastic risers to suspend my cables off the floor. The increase in clarity and focus is obvious.
Thanks for sharing, Danny.
Hmmm...not saying it is not an improvement, but if it were me, I would not want the risers made out of a conductive material like plastic or metal. Maybe try wood or ceramic, cork, or even cardboard in your system to test the theory...
@@dmark2639 That's a reasonable suggestion. I may try it, though I'm pleased as is. Happy listening!
What about the dielectric properties of your 3D printed plastic?? 😭🤣😭🤣😭🤣
In commercial installations involving transmission lines, GIL or Gas Filled Lines use Nitrogen and Sulphur Hexafloride (SF6) as a dielectric. Yes, I know the comparison is quite unlikely given the parameters at audio frequencies but I have oftentimes wondered how long before someone develops GIL audio cables but why go to that expense when your grandkids tinker toys, Lincoln Logs, or Legos wind up in our audio system. As for me, I saving my money for a Flux Capacitor to recap my passive crossovers 😉
I heard that using Flux Capacitors in your crossovers can help solve phase issues between drivers 😏
@@zackw4941 yes, Any time delays would be eliminated 😂
That is because they call it Stormy Monday but Tuesday is just as bad but Wednesday makes me glad.
@@zackw4941 But doc needs those for the Delorian
I wonder how bad it would sound if we put the cables on vibrators.
in the UK back in the past some audiophiles experimented using fine fishing lines attached to the ceiling lifting the cables & claimed it made a difference i kid you not.
I used to be an electrician and a elevator mechanic and I could trouble shoot basic electric circuits it also seemed the more I learned the more confused it seemed so I am not a electrical engineer. but I just watched a video from a guy who is a ee, somewhere along the way I learned electricity travels along the skin of an electrical wire now in this video I watched it said electrons move from electric motive force(with means the lines of force that radiate out from a wire that has electrical current moving thru it) causes electrons to flow outside the wire not on the skin or thru the core... which would mean being on the floor could very well make a diff... but to be honest it is completely over my head. I have a nice entry level system 1500$ speakers and a 3000$ receiver and A1500$ integrated amp playing airplay or CD player as a source and listening to zeppelin and the like. It probably wouldn't make a difference but it does sound pretty good. I went all thru that to say I like the way Danny explained it and if I was quite a bit upstream in a system I might be interested but since I am in the bottom 80 to 90 percent I will just say thanks for the video
"Skin effect" is a real thing in signal transmission, but it isn't a factor at the low frequencies of audio signals. There are other audiophiles with engineering backgrounds who can do a better job of what actually matters in an audio system and why.
Yep, this skin effect non-sense and cable riser bs has been debunked by audio research over the years. There's published scientific papers out there on it. These kind of audio guys refuse to acknowledge them or read them and just trust their ears. Well science has also taught us our ears and brain can't be trusted either. At least not for this sort thing were memorizing fidelity is required. Why blind tests always debunk this nonsense. There's plenty of audio demonstrations out there that easily fool human hearing and the mind. Statistically much of this is all in our heads.
@@fredygump5578 Like Dr. Floyd Toole and Ethan Winer.
I've always been told that rising the cables is only really needed if it's a concrete floor with rebar in it. Something about the cables being close to the metal rebar causes an induction effect.
I actually don't know what's happening but don't doubt it's noticeable in a high end hifi system. Because what isn't? ;)
My cement floors do as you describe...
I have read that even a regular carpet can generate static electricity that can affect the cables. Risers are one way to get those cables up and away from any potential static or induction interference. Just realize, it's a tweak, not a cure-all!
@@dmark2639 Bbbbbutttt it is a cure for floor generated resistance. In the first system I put the speaker cables on risers-er- cardboard boxes... it removed a haze, a dampened thing on the high frequencies that I simply could not sort until that moment. And what are other tweaks? Let's say I use sorbothane for the feet of some gear or speakers, yes it's a tweak, but the tweak cures a problem. Tweaks are not silly flamboyant flourishes, they are cures for real sonic problems in a room. Spend a few years treating room s and you'll understand that tweaks are, when used properly, cures for genuine sonic interference in the sound your hearing from the system through the room. And by all this I do not mean tweaks bought from $$$$$$$ vendors, I mean an understanding of materials and physics and using the best materials to solve problems, it is amazing what one can do with just the few materials that actually apply to audio, the aforementioned Sorbothane, Rockwool, MDF, mass loaded vinyl... cheers.
If cables only interact with rebars inside concrete floors, then why is this happening? >>> czcams.com/video/8yaOUrULYP4/video.html
@@dmark2639 only if there was something causing a rubbing motion constantly
Tried it back and forward a few days with my speaker cables, sounded better without the risers and just lying on the carpet. There was definitely a difference, with the risers voices became thinner and almost fatiguing. I now use them to route the power cables over the signal cables but stay away from the speaker cables 👍 Still find it strange to notice a difference 😳
🤣🤦♂️
I understand that we don't live on an orb moving thru a vacuum, but rather a stationary extended flat plane, yet _I'M_ the krazy one...
This is yet another example of why double blind testing is needed for tweaks like this. Anything can make a huge difference, whether it's real or not. It is also true for crossover components. It all has to do with expectations. If you change something, and tell the listener to find differences, they will. The brain can't isolate sound from other senses, no matter how hard we try. It's a very interesting phenomenon.
That's why we've done this quite a bit where the listener has no idea if anything is being changed and any expectation is gone.
can you tell the difference between a $2000 Turntable and a $6,000. Turntable I can so easily .
so that is why some musicians need auto tune because we can,t hear the difference and practicing together is just a con .go and see live music if you can,t tell a good band from an ordinary one get another hobby .
big difference there I did a $600 versus a $1200 easy to hear the better seperation two guitars playing together could be delineated .
@@tobiasjames6949 In which ocean though diving in the Indian Ocean is so much better than the pacific especially if you live there . I will guess you meant water divining with a rod or stick can you hear past your own rhetoric ?.
I started using cable risers after following the uTube channel, A stereophile in Seattle. I can vouch that keeping the power cord off the floor makes a huge difference. As for speaker cable I’m not sure as I’m still looking for the right cable. I’ve sued from I could have bought a small car with the money to lamp cord. Maybe I’ll give you a call and try yours. Good video.
And now of coarse the power cord.
On one of our trips to ikea, purchased some cheap glass tea light holders with little slot designs at the top that could (effectively) cradle my cables. And - dammit - it made quite a difference.
Lol I didn't want it to work either.
I only wish I could find some sort of riser for my wireless audio system😄.
wireless is anyway lo end, no reason to lift anything!
For wireless audio, why not try a wave guide and lift that off the ground :)
I bought active (powered) studio monitor speakers, no need for cable risers...
With pinpoint center and wide soundstage you can make, a lot things are sensitive. Doesn't need to be costly along the chain or good room treatment. You can DIY or buy prettier cable raiser. There is a difference doesn't mean you need to change it.
Nice video as always 😊 a cheap way to test this is using
washing clip 🎶😃🎶 have fun all 👍
I hope you make a video on Cryo treatment for wires, tubes, etc.
i use clothespins for this,also use it when cables are close to eachother to keep a distance
At dealers, shows, that I have seen the use of risers, the explanation was always the same, static electricity in the carpet was affecting the sonics and that it wouldn't have much effect on wooden floors. Never heard of rebar in concrete issue or see how cryogenically treating the risers would improve things. But hell if it works, c'est la vie.
Those little sawhorses for the cables are cool
Hi Danny. BANG ON about colorants/pigments in cable insulation/sheathing having sonic impact, in fact system sound/signature can be dialed up at will according to the 'impurities' embedded in the insulation materials. Once a particular mix of compounds which causes dead clean, clear, neutral sound is incorporated, a surprisingly wide range of other 'substances' can be also be included in order to 'voice' the system. Signature actually means dynamic 'patterns' in the reproduced acoustic energy transmission, patterns in energy transmissions have neurological/biochemical effects on the mind/body, some patterns are nice, some patterns are not. Proximity/contact of cables with flooring materials adds another set of patterns into the energy transfer rate, some patterns play nice together, some patterns don't.
Cable companies add compounds to the dielectrics to improve transparency, resolution, neutrality, etc.? Voicing is optional? Talk about secret recipes. That would enormously increase the complexity of cable design.
@@BruceCross Yes but unwittingly for the most part and choosing pigments for aesthetics reasons or model identification. Some cable companies are on to it and deliberately 'noise' the cables but their approach is still a crap shoot. The big trick is knowing which combination of elements produces dead clean, dead clear, dead real sound...the signature of this recipe is that there is no signature if that makes sense.....difficult to comprehend but once heard cannot be unheard and thereafter all cables/systems sound coloured/clouded. Once the clear baseline is set then it is a perfectly simple matter to add voicing at will...want your system to give you a s**tty headache no problem, want your system to be fun no problem, want your system to be therapeutic no problem. I know this concept sounds far out but it is all due to 'patterns' in the sound, usually called noise but is in fact information and at the fundamental level. In depth researching of Bybee Quantum Purifier will give a heads up on physical processes that influence system sound. Cheers.
@@ericmc6482 So most companies aren't intentionally customizing their dielectric material? And the other companies are clueless about the process? Hopefully, somebody has a clue. From what little I could gather on Bybee Quantum Purifiers, they remove low-frequency electronic noise below 2 kHz, also known as 1/f or flicker noise. Whatever that means. Quantum mechanics is only understood by a few physicists, meanwhile I struggled with algebra. Generally, I don't buy tech I can't understand. Honestly, it sounds more controversial than cable risers, but then I looked up the company and they do offer a 30-day return policy.
@@BruceCross Hi Bruce, I just lost a long reply.
Yes AFAIK no companies are deliberately choosing colorants for their signature/voice properties and yes it seems that most cable companies are essentially clueless.
Yes it's all to do with 1/f noise and materials all have their individual dynamic 1/f noise spectrums.
Noise drives/excites system noise interactively/recursively so yes a cable change can markedly change the 'character' of a system despite LCR values being 'same'.
Signal is energy transfer, Energy Transfer Rate is not constant Einstein's c but subject to dynamic field conditions, surround a conductor with a substance and the ETR will be dynamically moderated/modulated according to the surrounding material which is resolved to signal noise but is actually information (in the form of patterns) about the insulation material.
Jack Bybee device is amortizing or 'whitening' the ETR which reduces 1/f noise and consequent effects on system subjective sound.
JB's approach is not perfectly white and whist diminishing 1/f noise and consequent dynamic excess noise still leaves identifiable faint signature.
My approach is to rigidly 'clock' ETR (no patterns) and in so doing a whole bunch of dependencies 'magically' disappear leaving dead clean clear natural sounding 3D audio repro.
That said patterns can then be deliberately introduced and this opens a whole new world lol.
I was serious in my comment about headache, in the name of science I have created an insulation formulation that causes nasty headache in four minutes and lingering three days, confirmed by experiment repeat three weeks later..
Physiologically/neurologically beneficial compounds can be incorporated too, stoning or DMTing a pub crowd through the PA is perfectly doable lmao.
So in conclusion expect cables to influence/control system dynamic noise behaviours and physiological responses, so far AFAIK no cable manufacturers have any real clue about this and audiophiles are similarly lost in the wilderness still searching for that 'right' system sound but will never attain it without what I have planned.
Thiese links may interest you and reading between the lines explains a whole lot of what is happening to human behaviours/health in dense modern cities with associated high level EMRs. Cheers.
www.researchgate.net/publication/28764625_Photon_Induced_Non-Local_Effects_of_General_Anesthetics_on_the_Brain
czcams.com/video/21Z4947fl_s/video.html
@@ericmc6482 Forgive me if I only speak in generalities, since the science is over my head. Yes, I could see how the conductor signal could be modulated by the dielectric, especially with the electric and magnetic fields. You had me searching for acronyms. ETR is Electron Transport Rate or Energy Transfer Ratio? Your explanation of Jack Bybee's approach vs. your own is beyond me, except that it reduces noise. Do you think your approach is marketable and affordable?
How surreal that dielectric compounds can have sinister effects on humans, but healing effects, too. Passing magnetic pulses through a chemical substance to influence the brain is mind-boggling science. If I understood the video, electromagnetic energy transfer at specific frequencies play a major role in human biology, even at the level of protein molecules, DNA, and cell membranes. No, I don't understand it, but it's fascinating. If designer peptides can treat cancer/HIV, it would be wonderful. Yes, EMR pollution in crowded cities has even more frightening consequences. Who can deny the overlap of resonances with music? Can listening to good music heal us? Possibly.
My HEMP insulated wires sound even better!! But only if I hang them from organic silk threads.
Actually, 11 gauge RG-8 Coax is a fantastic sounding speaker wire and I would sincerely love to see a comparison. I would buy the RG-8 and mail it to you to compare.
I've used cable risers for a few years now. I'm not 100% sure I hear a difference but, I just made some cheap ones cutting up a 2x4. Cost me $3 and had the hardware store make the cuts. I have no problem using them because they cost next to nothing.
You should be extremely embarrassed. That's a good reason to not use them.
@@neandrewthal I know...I suck.
Danny - you always bring "UP" the best subjects. Wink - grin...
Now, because of this video, the price of Tinker Toys is going to go way up on Amazon. Hahaha
All the best to you and yours, Kevin
😂 Danny did you measure the difference? Being an engineer can you explain what it is what you think you are hearing?
How to do you measure the depth, width, height and layering of the imaging and sound stage?
In the past I’ve put bits of tape on the front and side walls marking positions of where certain effects, instruments or vocals come from, Swapping out bits of gear or moving room treatment makes a serious difference to how it’s all presented.
@@lloyd.8272 yes it does but I am not buying setting speaker wire or any other wires for that on toys is going to make any difference in any of those things. To answer your question crosstalk, separation, reverberation and reflection and SNR and noise floor all can be measured and will effect our Psychoacoustic perception. Also placebo effect will effect how we perceive sound. That is all I know but I am not an engineer either. 😊
I watched your video on getting the speaker cables off of the floor. I didn't want that to be a thing. Two months later my girlfriend cleaned up the living room and took all the cables off the floor and stuck them under the tv to get them out of the way. When I woke up I didn't know she had done anything but she was playing music and I could tell right away something had changed. It was so obvious that it was better, I could hear things in the music that I've never heard and she plays these songs a lot. Seeing 2 garbage bags by the front door told me she had cleaned up the spot where she sits on the floor in front of the tv. I knew without looking that the wires weren't on the floor anymore. Does it make a difference, way more than you think it will, get them off the floor, the difference just might shock you. It's noticeable immediately.
Don’t you think the acoustics of cleaning up a room would have much more of an effect than speaker cables not being on the floor
@@ar_xiv no, having the wires off of the floor has made a difference. The room was cluttered many times since and the sound has not changed.
It's a win-win.... Buy & try the Tinker Toys, and if you don't like it, give them to some kids. Somebody wins! And, it's not some crappy plastic toy that will go into landfill... it's a biodegradable solution!
We use marshmallows in case we want a snack during the movie
I think it is worth saying the obvious BTW. The sounds that make that final big difference in realism in sound stage are in the micro details. There are a lot of things that can muffle these tiny micro or pico volt signals. This is where coupling capacitors, connectors, teflon dielectric, and cable architecture all come into play. So your comment that most people will never hear this is spot on. Most systems while very nice at their level just do not play these sounds that spook us and excite us. When it all comes together it is pretty amazing. I can spontaneously sense the human emotion of the artist singing. It is captured by a microphone and ends up years later in my sound room on demand. It is like that observation when a mother spontaneously lactates upon hearing her baby cry while not responding to any other child in the room. It is in our DNA, and we respond when it is done right.
Picovolt signals making an AUDIBLE difference?????
I'm curious about the sound difference using self-powered speakers and digital signals (AES) (or line level in shielded signal cable/conduit) to the monitors and how they compare to separate amplifiers. Personally, I have found self-powered systems to work quite well.
I use to have my cables on the floor. I could hear some distortion but thought maybe it was a loose connection somewhere. One day while moving my speakers around I drapped the cables over my chair to get them out of the way and when I listen to them no distortion. I thought hmmm it couldnt be but lets see so I placed the cables back on the floor and there was that static sound.
When asked others as to why most said snake oil. Then one person said it all depends on whats underneath your flooring.
How do you think cables on the floor cause distortion
I use cork sanding blocks on a hardwood floor with Nordost Red Dawn on a modest setup (Rega CD and a 10 watt PSE).
And it gives a better detailed bass.
Would love to know more about your battery power sources. Thanks Danny.
I have done my part experimenting this. No difference at least to my ears. Enough is enough.
It's funny that it is hard, even painful to accept it could make a difference. Unbelievable is is difficult to accept even when it is front of your eyes /ears. But if it works on your system, easy to try and is basically free, the pain will go away.
I believe Danny believes everything he hears is a thing. I hear my Ar3 speekers fom the beginning and its a thing. Everything Danny says is bad is in these speakers and yet they produce a fantastic sound. 🤷
Plastic "pizza savers" (those little white plastic tables in pizza boxes) should work fine, especially the ones that are open like a tripod and don't have the "table top" part which could introduce more dielectric absorption.
I would be interested in a variable riser system that could lift or raise the cables, thus providing a listening in real time experiment. This might also help to ascertain what height is optimal for the room/floor material. Perhaps different heights would provide different results for different cables, environments or even sources or types of music. I envision a lift from above setup so the 'lifting' method does not affect the cable. Or perhaps a string pulled X lifter. C'mon engineers, if you build it, they will listen...
Wood floors are held down with flat steel nails (they are below the surface so you can't see them). Carpeted floors are on sheet goods that are held down with steel screws. When you complain about iron / steel in connectors, this is the same thing steel along the speaker wires will have similar problems. Ideally when you use spacers do not place them uniformly to prevent a high Q situation (this also applies to computer wires especially long runs).
all that makes perfect sense. How did your double-blind test go? Audible is the reality we seek.
Love it, I just recently saw Chris's video on this when he visted with you. I have your 24-strand cables and will try this very cheap tweek. I ordered the Tinker Toys and I thnk they will be safe as my grandkids play with Legos, although I guess Legos would work as well LoL
Recently i made some cable risers for 2 systems i have.. one system is on a wooden floor and the other sitting on a concrete floor. Both made differences in clarity/ separation and definition. As a result i also found the volume didn't need to be turned up as much to enjoy the definition of instruments and with one of the systems i really noticed a difference in soundstage, there is a depth to the the positioning on the instruments.
@Cody Smith Hey, you have yet to answer my question regarding "controlling one's Dreams". So do you believe that this is possible (just as I described above) or do you also contend that what I am suggesting concerning Dreams is simply non-sense / impossible?
@Cody Smith "...a blond test"? are you testing hair tinctures in audio?
@Cody Smith I did a blonde test. It was stupid.
Just got the LTM CONCRETE Snap Rebar Chairs from Amazon and have started installing them. I will see what difference they make!
Cool !. You can also place bits of paper, cardboard, cloth (organic hemp, organic cotton, silk, etc, watch out about colourants) in the cradles and you might find slight change/voicing.
My suggestion to Danny of white Titanium Dioxide paint is because the Tio2 pigment gives a nice damping quality/voicing, muting the highs/tops a little but depending on system this can be advantageous. White sheathed power cables and signal cables have same property and I find black cables have a 'hardness' signature in comparison.......maybe Apple know something they are not saying lol. Please let us know what you find with your experiment. Cheers..
I run my speaker cables under the floor of my house so I use cable lowerers. The difference in sound is amazing...the bass is lower and the high notes are more defined and the sound stage is wider and more open. Also I have removed all the tubes and transistors, capacitors and resistors in my equipment as they cause phase and harmonic and IM distortion. You're probably wondering how I get amplification without the above mentioned components. It's classified information that I'm not allowed to reveal, but suffice it to say it involves plasma molecular anaerobic junctioning. You will be hearing more about this in the coming months if you read the science journals that deal in audiology, acoustics and sound wave insanity.
I have chunky speaker cables and do run them under the floor , keeps my wife happy and does sound great but I but that down to the cable not any other factor.
Cable lowerers... 🤣🤣🤣
When we 'hear more about this' will it be obvious to us all or is it more subtle than that?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂
I have a physics degree, but don't claim to be a physicist or any kind of authority on electrical engineering, but what I did learn from the few introductory papers in electrical theory I took, was that when a current passes through a wire, there is a heck of a lot more going on than just electrons moving in a conductor. The properties of the resulting fields, frequency dependant inductance and reactance... sure you can measure them or make some kind of inference about them theoretically, but the behaviour of current is extremely complex. I always roll my eyes when I hear people insist that what you measure is what you get... I would compare that to dropping a line over the side of a boat to measure the depth and then claiming to know everything about the ocean. Sure, Danny uses measurements to determine some primary parameters of acoustic systems, but he understands what he is measuring, it's limitations, what the measurement is telling him and what it isn't. I changed out my speaker cable for the helical construction type of cable that Danny uses here, because I immediately recognised when I saw it, that the geometrical configuration of the cable would have a significant effect on the fields created around the cable, and therefore the self-induced field effects on the signal. I can't say that lifting the cables off a non-electrically neutral surface will make an improvement, but I can guarantee it will make a difference to the signal. If you alter the field, you alter the signal.
@@edd2771 How is suggesting putting your wire up on junk you have lying around the house, asking for your money? Why are you asking other people for answers? Why don't you get your own answers? I expect that Danny doesn't give you the answers you want because he cannot say whether a given modification will be a subjective improvement to you. he is telling you to try it and find out for yourself. As for double blind tests, If you can't hear a difference, don't do it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head, but you will never know until you try things for yourself. Cheer up Ed, it's just a hobby.
@@edd2771 Ed, what are you doing? Are you here just because you like arguing about nothing with strangers? I am not interested. It's boring and pointless. If you disagree, I really don't care, just say what you believe, maybe I'll read it maybe I won't. No one is obligated to engage with you.
When cd players were first introduced it was claimed that because they all measure the same they all sound the same, which they clearly didn't then someone analysed phase jitter and that explained a lot of the difference. Could there be something thats not being measured that relates to risers?
@@philspencelayh5464 That's exactly the thing, just like the early days of CD before jitter was known to be a thing, we don't know what we don't know. And even if we do know a measurable phenomena exists that affects the the signal, in the case of fields, even if could quantify some property of the fields, how do we determine it's meaning? We are dealing with a highly complex system where a current creates a fields in 3 dimensional space which acts on itself and in turn affects the current creating it and the effect varies with respect to frequency and a multitude of other factors, add to that that every medium in which the field exists has a dielectric coefficient that influences the field, and therefore the current, and it all gets very complex, very quickly. All you can know for sure is that every factor that changes in the signal path has an effect, whether it's audible, good, bad, who knows. Lifting cables of the floor and therefore changing the dielectric properties of the medium might sound better, might sound worse...All you can do is experiment and listen.
@@philspencelayh5464 Read Ethan Winer. Ethan Winer is a real engineer and musician.
I think it would be helpful for the skeptics if you were able to show some measurements or data comparing before and after cable risers.
Its a good idea but what would you measure?
@@AT-wl9yq if using cable risers produce a hearable difference in the sound, it should be possible to measure these effects. Otherwise there are only „earwitness“ accounts, made by people with flawed and imperfect measuring tools (human hearing).
Of course its totally fine for people to use cable lifters if that’s what makes them happy. But if you make scientific claims you have to be prepared to give scientific prove.
@@AT-wl9yq the voodoofactor ?
@@HenneB I can't say if they make a difference or not because I never tried them. The reason I said what are you going to measure, is we can't measure everything we hear.
"Of course its totally fine for people to use cable lifters if that’s what makes them happy. But if you make scientific claims you have to be prepared to give scientific prove."
That's something else entirely. The experience I have with people who claim "science", is they talk about it but never do it. For example, I'm sure you've heard of Audio Science Review (I think that's what its called.). He seems like a nice guy, but when I pointed out that he doesn't do anything even remotely resembling science, he seemed to get a little upset. But when I made my case, which is fairly simple, the discussion was over. He has a channel to build, and he's not going to let real science get in the way of that.
That's why I'm asking, what are you going to measure. Do you want to win an argument, or do you want to get to the truth. If you want to win an argument, no measurements, test, evidence, etc... will ever do unless I get the results you want me to get. If you want the truth, then you need to use real science. So unless you can come up with something real, we can't have a discussion.
@@cbts001a4 That's a typical response for someone who doesn't know how science works.
Lets have another look at my question.
"Its a good idea but what would you measure?"
Now is that so complicated you can't give me an answer? Its a very simple question.
If Tinker Toys work on speaker cables, should I consider Lincoln Logs for my sub cables? 🤔
Hum!!! Every thing I tried from Danny’s videos made a difference on the sound of my system… so I guess I’d better move cables that rides close coupled all along the baseboard radiator!
My building has cement floors and it is quite audible the difference between cables on the floor and off the floor. I have tested it multiple times and the results stand...
Find a way to do a blind test. Have someone else repeatedly move the cables for you, but you can't see what they're doing and they don't tell you. Best test would be to move the cables multiple times during the same song. You don't know when the cables are on the floor or on stands. And the person should try to trick you. Then see if you can really tell the difference!
As a physics teacher, it's so good when people on YT get the physics right. It doesn't seem crazy at all if you've done the maths.
@Cody Smith sorry, I mean the maths describing the effect of a nearby dielectric on an oscillating em field
would this be the same for power cables and interconnects, or only something that affects speaker cables. Not that my system is anywhere near the level that it would make a difference but just curious. Thanks for the great video Danny.
Great content as always!!! For all the skeptics and doubters, take a look at the power lines outside high above. These cables are bare with no cover or insulation. In comparison to the gauge in your home they are relatively thin and carry energy to large neighborhoods. They can do so as a result of their free air properties.
Which leads to my question, what about testing a set of exposed cables strung like power lines from amp to speakers with the care to not short out the amp? Worth the test?
It might prove that Danny's braided insulated speaker wire is part of the problem.
Overhead power transmission lines are insulated by the air between conductors. Overhead power transmission lines are air insulated to save weight and cost.
When I tested separated conductors I used insulated wire. Since the capacitance C = KeA/d the dielectric constant of the insulation times the permittivity of free space only reduces the effective distance between air separated conductors a tiny amount. The effective distance between spaced insulated conductors is greater than the distance between the outer surface of the insulation.
Bare Copper wires will oxidize pretty quickly if not coated.
@@dannyrichie9743 High voltage transmission lines are made of aluminum or aluminum wrapped around a steel core.
@@paulsebring6930 Those lines are carrying a 60Hz sine wave and not an audio signal.
No offense, but that is completely incorrect. Transmission lines have no insulation because of cost.. Nothing else.. They are suspended on standoffs t I create electrical isolation.. Nothing else..
I would love to the differences quantified somehow. Maybe a spectral decay measurement?
I just made some risers out of a semi-foam material for my cardas clear light speaker cables and like you said the soundstage just got more refined. It improves the layering and dept much more. I didn't spend a dime just materials I already have. This is surprising.
Swimming poll noodles are cheap and effective and come in a range of attractive colours depening on your tastes .I am serious $10 for a three pack the divorce lawyer might cost more but who needs an unsympathetic partner ?
Oh hey a liar!
I've got my speakers up against a rattle-colorizing LCD projection TV. If I could somehow get it out of the way, it'd make a huge difference I suspect. In the video I made last night, I imagined Danny trying to listen to my system, but wanting to move the TV cus it was colorizing the sound to much. If a second person was here, I could move it. Trouble is, there's nowhere TO move it. I have made risers to keep speaker cables away from power cords before. Mostly just OCD tho.
I tried tinker toys for my wires. I found a set at a yard sale. It didn't sound much different but it may be that my system is not as detailed. After viewing this video, the price of these tinker toys just went up 💯% .😎 BTW your Amps might benefit from iso platforms? Greg
You are correct about my amps.
Are you serious! I've had Cardas,, Audio quest,and still have Some Kimber,and. Super High end MIT cable's.but, found some incredible results with just 12 ga.romex! The trick is,slit the insulation and remove the Black and Red solid core wires.then,fix the end of those wires under a weight,then on the other end , stick them in a drill,and twist them to eliminate all RF frequency.if you do it right,it will astound you!!!
When you explain it makes sense. 👍
Your T-shirts are going to give the audiopheliac a run for his money, that's very nice
I really have to recommend a video by "The Science Asylum" called "Circuit Energy doesn't FLOW the way you THINK!" for people to start to understand how electro magnetic fields work, really changes ones view of things like cables. I know a bit about EMF since school and understanding Maxwell's laws really changes your view of electronics and EMI.
There's also another one called "The Big Misconception About Electricity" by "Veritasium".
Its description starts with "The misconception is that electrons carry potential energy around a complete conducting loop, transferring their energy to the load." The misconception ? Say what ?
@@bossybill7437 Have a look at the video and that would be obvious, because it's very counter-intuitive and not something that would be clear unless you dabbled with Maxwell's laws
@@tobiaxelsson Maxwell was one smart dude
You may want to check out Eric Dollard and Ken Wheeler for more revelations about the nature of electricity and its wider implications....
@@tobiaxelsson Maybe you misunderstand what I said... I've already watch your video and agree. It's saying the same as the one I referenced but in a different way.
Danny digging my Pedest'ale Tower speakers, I'm going to try this, eventually.
I feel like that is so simple to validate with a double blind study.
You realize that double blind means not only the person doing the listening, but the person doing the switching has to be blind to the differences? Sorry, but the guy switching the cable risers in or out of the system will know which way is which.
I’m trying to find the video where someone has speaker wire connected to an oscilloscope. Simply lifting the wire of the bench you can see the noise on the scope disappear. I think it was Cardas or Danny himself who did the video. If you can measure a difference on a scope then you can hear a difference on a resolving enough system.
I use them on my TV and the picture it was amazing returned from black and white to color!
Pschhhh, that's pedestrian. My TV went full 3D ! 🤣
I lifted the cable to my fridge, milk lasts now 3 month longer...ok occasionally the fridge is now humming vivaldi in the middle of the night, but we got used to that...just hoping the fridge doesn't discover various metal genres
I like the tinker toys! Great simple tweak. What difference would be made if you shortened your cables? The ones behind you seem to be too long and are snaking around some.
So how do I manage the 50 cables hanging off the back of my equipment? I can't seperate all those cables in the cabinet. Is there a similar cable management system for all the power, RCA and speaker wire mess behind the cabinet?
Wondering if the cable manufacturer recommends that customers put their cables on risers? And if so, does that mean they should just be making a better cable that does not require this tweak? Also, are their any instrumented measurements that show a signal difference? Just wondering.
Electricity works in a field that is quite a bit larger than the wire. Interfere with the filed and you're interfering with the flow...
Best if you use porcelain isolators used by Hydro, the ones used for 15kV up power lines ;)