I've been working as an acoustic consultant and vibration engineer for a few years and also have a studio tech background and I am AMAZED by the amount of people that spend 10,20,30+ thousand on a system and not even have ANY acoustic treatment or taken any professional measurements of the listening room.
If you had 5 or 10k for a system - 30-50% should go to the acoustics. But noone does this and it's a waste of money and time only focusing on the hifi itself..
@@Hemshemsems the room/acoustics are apart of the whole system, seems to be view as separate. Adjusting the acoustics of the room/room response can actually be done on the cheap ONLY if you have a friend that has the training and industry experience because you can obtain lab data for as sorts of cheap materials and if it looks good on paper and in the software modelling it can be trialed in the room and measured.
@@aussie_philosopher8079 well i don't find acoustic treatments cheap, but compared to doing nothing except speaker placement and a rug on a hardwood floor and nothing on the walls - it does not matter how much you upgrade the hifi - the room will dictate the sound more than we know.. You can do measurements, and it's a parts of it. But diy is fine and I'm not for paying very high sums for fancy absorbers and diffusers, but sadly more advanced acoustic treatments that work well do not come cheap and you also need a lot of them to really make a difference. Always much easier to buy new gadget that does not fix the inherent acoustic problems we all have in normal listening rooms..
@@Hemshemsems that's why I said cheap if you know someone with the training and expertise because you can use lab data and modelling and measurements where others wouldn't know what to do Acoustic materials are materials like anything else, sometimes products have been primarily for acoustics though.
I believe around 90% of us don’t have our speakers 8,7,6,5, feet out in the room, i know I don’t. Also, a lot of us have a modest system which won’t be able to pick up any difference in exotic cables. That being said, I love the way my system sounds, I might be missing a lot, but I really enjoy it, and for me is more than enough.
I've heard a $30,000 system in a bad room with NO acoustic treatment and terrible dimensions. The space is just as important if not more than the system because a $5000 system can sound like a 30,000 system in a very well designed room.
This means that proper speaker placements together with room treatment allow you to properly hear the synergy between all your system electronics and cables, thus giving you the ability to elevate your system performance to a high level, much greater than all average systems out there.
@@dannyrichie9743 Wouldn't balanced "isolation" power conditioning make a bigger difference, in comparison to eeking out infinitesimal steps with properly spec matched cable? I understand you run your electronics with a battery? Are we on a similar track?
I have to agree that noise can cause problems. Remember a square wave isn't one frequency it's the "Sum of 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th harmonics approximates square wave. The end result of adding the first five odd harmonic waveforms together (all at the proper amplitudes, of course) is a close approximation of a square wave." Your D to A converters have anti-aliasing filters and some are better than others. Tubes can have gas in them and the elements can vibrate. Your coils can vibrate in your crossover and act like reverb. I have dipped them to stop that reverb sound. Keep up the great videos. I am looking into buying a kit soon!
The metrics for good audio in any room is Speaker quality and size, stereo triangle placement with optimal wall distance and room echo dampening via acoustic panels or room furnitures/accessoires. if you wanna go hardcore, build a speaker optimised room first so any speaker will sound honest to their potential but this is only for rich people that have nothing else to do, except audio production and only on the last steps, there follows amp and dac decision, music source but better say mastering, which can be upgraded all together to scale symmetrically cables matter the very least which is equal to electric current purification via generator so you might just upgrade that too with your cables in your wall with gold cables
The most important component in any high end system is the listening room. I was Al Stiefel's partner who ran the RMAF along with his wife Marjorie. I've heard Danny's rooms at RMAF shows and can tell you, he knows what he is doing.
That's a good testimony. I'd love to visit Danny personally and hear his new listening room once it's finished. I'm sure it'll blow everyone's mind when it's done.
"Balancing Act" is what the whole subject sounds like to me. Room size and treatment, specific sound applications, listening needs, size of speakers, audio equipment and components, cables, etc. I'm learning.. slowly but surely. Thanks, Danny!
Another great video! You're analogy of the giant Where's Waldo book is pretty spot on. When i came to visit back in October, I had never heard a proper high end setup, let alone *anything* open baffle, with tubes, etc. But it gave me a frame of reference on what and how things should sound, especially Soundstage & clarity & imaging. Upgrading my XLS to tube connectors with cheap zipcord was a huge jump in clarity from the stock binding posts. Then getting your 16 strand kit, made a large jump in depth & soundstage, even set on my computer desk surrounded by large displays & against the walls.everything so far has made a difference and I'm interested to see how the new power cord changes things. You have yet to steer me wrong, and its only got me more excited for my NX-Studios & upgraded X-Statiks once they're finished! Keep up the great work & videos Danny!
This whole video is, in my humble experience, 100% true. The more one does with acoustics, the more eye opening the effect acoustics has on things becomes. I essentially haven’t touched the equipment in my systems in a year and half and yet… i continually improve the sound as I refine the acoustic solutions in my two rooms. Danny is hands down the most honest and true source of audio info for the enthusiast (the pro world has been savvy about acoustics for awhile now).
Double Bind tests are done all the time. In fact if it wasn’t in your conclusions would be null and void. You could never get your research peer reviewed. The subject nor the researcher knows what the subject is presented with (double blind). A third party controls the test. For example in this case (at random) cable A is plugged in then cable B then cable B, A, B, A, A, A, B, A, B, B. The subject will keep track on paper which cable they think they are listening to. The third party keeps track of the cable sequence. The researcher then analyzes the data and draws conclusions. This is what is referred to as a scientific study.
I think the vídeo title may be Its All about your system (room + equipment + setup). It is the interaction of all variables that result in you hearing (or not) differences between cables.
I'm glad to see you are doing ok Danny, that weather is freaking weird! thanks for all the great information. looking forward to ordering my XLS Encores soon
Yes, the earth IS round. 😁 I’ve heard differences in interconnect and speaker cables in my system. Irrespective of derogatory audiophile labels, I believe Danny’s central point has merit. In my 45 years of HiFi listening experience it has been clearly demonstrated to me that a highly resolving system created through a combination of source, speakers, their placement, room treatment, amplification and front end electronics can indeed show discernible audible differences in cables. Impedance, capacitance and inductance can be measured. The width, depth, height, instrument and vocal imaging cannot be measured by scientific instruments alone. The MOST precise measuring instrument known are your ears and how they are connected to the matter between them.
Something may be measurable. It's the listening that matters the ears don't know about electronic measurements. This is why not a single manufacturer will demonstrate blind tests picking people from the street. They could easily do a single take of that on youtube. Why won't they?
When I do blind tests for this (which I consider to essentially be double blind), I just don't allow any talking other than an "OK" word to let the listener know that the switch is done and ready to hit play. This eliminates the switcher from influencing the listener and pretty much makes it double blind. If you want you could even use a computer to pseudo randomly generate a sequence for the switcher to use.
I would use the randomized test as it it can be pretty easy for facial expressions and body language to make an influence, even the tone of the word ok can skew the test.
@@StewartMarkley I highly doubt that the tone of "ok" will tell you which is which. I guess I could get a buzzer or something for them to make a noise with instead. Regardless, I normally have my eyes closed so that I can't get any visual cues. If it's something that makes noise while switching then I step out of the room
Have you been to the Winchester Mystery House? I have the time of my life there learning about the property. One thing that stood out the most was the ball room. The floor has no nails at all. If I'm not mistaken, no nails were used in the rooms finished work. They (carpenters and engineers) knew that metal causes acoustic anomalies. This was in the early 1900s. Maybe you could ask the property managers to do a sound demo in the ballroom. At the time 2002 they rented the ballroom for special events.
Great video To summarize there is a lot more grey than black or white - “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”
This fella is terrific. Cable and cord salesman all the way. He's correct about what system would reveal what, and the room parameters. There are plenty of variables. Tough to get them all in sync in real world situations across any kind of board. He's also right if it doesn't matter to you or you can't hear a difference, then that's the real barometer. He's sitting in front of a top notch system in a great listening environment. There's always something better. He'll sell you that Carnegie Hall has nothing on his room. None of the measurements stack up at Carnegie! Specs don't even matter, because nuance comes in to play with great systems-even with non-perfect parts. Manufacturers set biases to have a signature sound. Different wiring sounds different with different components, and often components sound better or worse depending on matching. It goes on into infinity. What's about wiring within the building itself? Is it audiophile grade behind the outlet or even to the power station? He's talking about the last 6 feet in many cases. Does a speaker wire acting as an antenna and power delivery system at once matter? It's get murky when confronted to hear a difference. Do reliable good connections matter-on that everyone should agree.
I agree. I can definitely understand. You have to have a FOUNDATION of great equipment and a great acoustically tuned LISTENSPACE... to then began to understand the subtle differences of cables. It's a bit easier in headphones - but not speakers.
I have a modestly high end headphone setup (around $1600 USD) and I needed to buy a USB audio cable for another application. I figured I'd try the USB on my headphone system thinking it wouldn't make any difference at all. Boy, was I wrong. The amount of detail that came through and the weight in the lower mids was substantial. I had to laugh to myself. Sent me down the rabbit hole but it really does matter. Of course, you can always live in blissful ignorance and be totally happy and I completely respect that (less money out of the pocket!), but if your system is good enough and you care enough, these things are very audible.
Whilst I don’t have a top-end audio system, and there is a rather large bay window in my listening room, I’ve found the difference between cables to be very noticeable. Others have also noticed the same differences when I conducted a blind listening tests for them. It’s such a pointless debate because the answer is so provable. System: IsoTek Mini Sub mains conditioner -> Chord Qutest DAC -> Van Den Hul or Audioquest (Sydney/Evergreen) phono cables -> Musical Fidelity X-150 amplifier -> Audio Innovations speaker cables -> DynAudio Audience 52 & REL T5i
Newbie question- I’m building my Encores. Would there be an advantage to skipping the binding post and solder the speaker wires direct to the crossover?
You can do that, but then when you want to upgrade the speaker cables it makes it pretty tough. The tube connectors are a great connector and comparable to no connector (directly soldered) as they are a pure Copper tube. By using the tube connectors you can swap out speaker cables easily.
You can do a lot on your own without hiring a consultant. Move your speakers out from the walls and place them in the basic recommended positions. Identify the first reflection points on the side, rear, and front walls, ceiling, and floors and either absorb or scatter the sound from as many of those locations as your wife allows. Put Bass traps in the corners. They could be simple rockwool absorption panels in the corners, thick enough to absorb low frequencies. Placing them diagionally across the corner increases their effective thickness. Once you do that, you should be able to hear the difference when you make minor changes to your system. You will be able to identify where a good place is to locate your listening position, where zones are where frequencies are cancelling or amplifing, changes when you tweek speaker location and toe in, stylus changes, different DAC. There is plenty of good advice on youtube. But you will have to separate the wheat from the chaff. I got the basics from youtube. Then I blogged with an acoustic engineer (in Germany) for more advice. I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I two degrees in engineering and an MS in Science (energy), so I probably had an advantage understanding that stuff. I made all my panels myself using rockwool Safe and Sound from Lowes Home improvement. It was cheap and easy. Instructions are on youtube. I also attend AXPONA in Schaumburg IL every year (except Covid when it cancelled.) so I had chances to ask questions and listen to experts. (Some "experts" don't know what they are talking about.) Just doing the basic treatments to first reflection points and adding bass traps allowed me to hear the difference when I made a change to anything, stylus, toe in, DAC, seating, wine, even the most minor change. The more I dialed in the room, the more apparent the change became. Unfortunately it also exposed bad recordings. I have LPs that I can't stand to listen to now.
A demo demonstrates how amazing the placebo effect is. That is a real effect, messured with science. And yes, it will make you enjoy your system more because you think it sounds better. So spend all you want on cables if you feel like it. I mean your brain fools you to see purple even though there is no such thing.
hello pal.ive been watching a few of your vids now as i do with many others who educate us in hifi etc. i find your discussions the easiest to comprehend. youve already given me many tips and advice on my own system that others dont seem to have managed to do so easy.so thankyou very much..
Great info Danny. The only problem that I have is not having a designated listening room. My wife is not into the music as I am so the system in my house is good but does not show its capabilities. My woodworking shop is pretty much my listening room so having all the accoustic materials on walls is pretty much impossible. I envie the people that are able to have a specific music room and are able to experiment to find the right fit for their system. Thumbs up to all the knowlegde you share with your viewers.
Hello Danny Very fine listningroom you have. Can you make an video about that room please. Take a tour and let us see the setup with all panels and other good things. And an other video just about your referens setup (part 2)
I second this! A video of how you set up a room. You say in this video that you have diffusers in the back of the curtains.. Show us how you build the rooms.. Video of the room you say it's currently under construction as well.. You want us DIY.. Let's go.. show us.. Lol.. Great work btw.. TY @GRresearch
what we experience is not reality - but a simulation of reality in our brain. ... and the brain is famously susceptible to all sorts of biases. Never underestimate the placebo effects.
Really enjoyed this video Danny you did a great job in explaining what the variables are when your listening for differences in music from the source or the components And of course your speaking from your experiences this is how you learn this stuff it wasn't reading something in a book
I once tried to upgrade a simple 2 channel audio circuit in a pinball machine by upgrading two TDA2002 amps with two TDA2003 amps, some Nichicon fine gold caps, and a few resistors that were supposedly better for an audiophile sound. This circuit was supplied with 12-15 volts and only had about 20 parts in the circuit. When I finished, I could swear that it had actually sounded a little worse. Some of the audio might have improved a bit, but in general, it didn't seem as loud and that was my primary reason to upgrade so I could squeeze a couple more watts out of each channel. In my research beforehand, I had read that circuit design with regard to audio amps was a bit of an art to get the clarity and sound you want out of it. I just assumed I had meddled with a well tuned circuit and done something wrong which caused the degradation of the sound. It wasn't until much later that I learned the TDA2003 amp transistors were Chinese bootleg chips. They were indeed working as an amplifier, but not to the level they were supposed to. I later replaced them with the original and was at least as happy with the circuit as I had been before. Point is, there is a lot of artistry in circuit design, cross-over design, system set up, speaker design. One could argue its all snake oil, or its all a necessity. I'm reminded of a line from Al Pacino, in Any Given Sunday...."This is a game of inches..." Not every change nets that inch, but audiophiles work for that inch in pursuit of the perfect sound, however you might define that to be. If this was all specs and formulas, and simple A in = B out, my bootlegged amp would have sounded just the same, but it didn't. Because along with the artistry of design comes a certain degree of intangibles. Not least of which is personal preferences and differences in their hearing.... Or the Odd Chinese bootleg part.
What's your opinion of a system using single ended cables versus a system that uses balanced cables and the amp and preamp have balanced circuitry (ie not just balanced jacks that are just like adapters into single circuitry).
I used to be in the camp that cables didn't matter much. So I tried an experiment with my audio playing, hit pause on my track and turned the volume to max. I'm having a high pitch hiss and tone mostly coming from the tweeter section at loud to max volume and it is audible when playing music loudly as well. I have crap 14awg cables with no sheathing or shielding with Media Bridge bananas, so I decided to move them and reroute the cables away from 2 sub power cables and a tv power cable that were ran along the wall. I redid the same experiment and hit pause at high to max volume with the cables away from everything and my tweeter hiss and high pitch tone went away, especially on the center channel. This actually made the sound much more alive and I had no idea what I was missing since I have had them routed like this from day one. This was a real experiment that proved me wrong about cables, and I'm not a cable guy or audiophile, it is just something that surprised me when I tried it for myself and I got a free upgrade on sound quality in the process. When I get some extra money I will order some cables from you since this idea worked on my noisy system and I have a hunch your cables will be MUCH better at rejecting noise than what I currently use. Thanks Danny
My audiophile mentor introduced me to Straightwire interconnects and Kimber speaker cable. We tweeked my mid-fi Early 90’s JVC / Advent system and it sounded much better. As the former bassist and engineer for the Air Force band, I was very aware of what pro sound was capable of, but I had very low expectations of home gear.
Cables does a lot 100% correct. I'm a diy highend builder. If I told you that internal cabling inside your audio system is even 100% more influenced. I did keep the idea to put my shielded cables in a send and receive way base so input to output correct way one sided shielding. That gave a enormous differance in Soundstage and 3D imaging. I like your style of speakers cables. Keep up the good videos ignore the flat eath beleavers😎
I need some advice. I have managed to buy (I am on a very limited budget) a decent system. My front-end is a Nuforce MSR-1 server and Proceed PDT3 transport. They run through a modified Theta ProPrime DAC (modified to have three co-ax inputs, no optical). I have a Nuforce P-8 preamp and a DIY T-amp power amp. My speakers are, to my mind, somewhat special: I got a set of Miller and Kriesel Satellite 1 speakers (with the Peerless drivers) and I am using it with a Ruark Logrhythm sub. Here is my problem- I have to use the system in a VERY small room, one that doubles as my study. It's about 9.8ft. x 10.5 ft. (3m x 3.2m), with a desk behind the listening position. I have shelves (LP and books) lining the one wall almost to the celing. The other wall is a built-in cupboard of which I have removed the doors (it is full of various parts, speaker drivers, tools, etc.). The main problem is that the speakers must stand close to the wall. As it is, I am sitting only about 5ft to 7ft away from the speakers. I heard what Danny said about placing speakers close to the walls, but I have no other option. I want to use acoustic absorbers on the walls behind the speakers, but will this be enough? Help please. If I should post this on a forum, please direct me there.
Yes to the room, 35-60 % of the system. Cables do make a difference , I have made some bad ones and some really good ones. Room , placement , 20 amp ac with 10 gauge wire with Hospital AC outlets, messed around with a really big isolation transformer which worked for my preamp and Dac , but killed the sound of my power amps.
I'm with ya on most of this, couldn't agree more. But a $50 pair of speaker terminals are going to change my world? That's where I gotta draw the line, because, science. This is my quote, feel free to use it: "If it makes no difference electrically then it will make no difference audibly" That is true of anything in the audio spectrum. Why not simply eliminate the tube connectors and just straight solder everything direct? That would be your best possible connection especially if using silver bearing solder. Because every connection is another spot of potential resistance. So "IF" one changes the resistance in a system, one might be able to hear that. But regardless of hearing, we now have the tools readily available to scientifically measure the difference, if any. With tools like REW and a decent mic we don't have to believe in a thing since we can just test and prove it to be real or snake oil. And I am all about those numbers! Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter. Cheers 🍻.
Yup! I have had many people come to hear my modest system and comment that they are hearing things they haven't heard on their own music they brought with them!
@@paulgyro Yes, the room is double use, so I need to move things around when I listen critically, close some drapes, pull the speakers out away from walls, but it's so worth it! Otherwise, I just listen as background music.
Really good. It's difficult to learn much on a full song, you probably get involved. On the short repetitive intros you've got a smaller data set to remember, so maybe that helps to focus . Power cables is going to be interesting, I'm thinking of re-making mine soon.
Even my living room Sony 1060 receiver when connected to my mini monitors and REL sub when swaping speaker cables like Cardas Hexlink i got cheap at garage sale it still makes a easily heard difference . Danny is spot on, more resolving system will easily pin point difference in cables , from AC thru Coax or USB to speaker .
@@kdomster9141 I'm following you here! 🤣 certainly that's where the DAC matters and everything after the DAC. Unless you are Bynar from Star Trek then you don't need a DAC 😉
Danny, how do you think your reference system stacks up against Paul McGowan's IRS Vs? It would be really interesting to have you guys respectfully critique each other's systems.
We'll probably never know, but their new Senior Speaker Designer, Chris Brunhaver, recently made substantial upgrades to the low frequency sections of the IRS Vs that your contact has likely never experienced. I get it though...your IB speakers produce a complete different experience.
@@dannyrichie9743 There's some fundamental differences; 1.) IRS-V is dipolar line source, w/quasi-monopole subs. 2.) NX-Treme is dipolar, quasi-point source, w/dipolar subs. IRS-V are essentially unobtanium, iirc, Paul paid at least $20k, and the entire multi-piece rig had to be rebuilt, including all 12 subs w/12 new amps. Paul's room is a big weak point, plus the directivity changes from dipole to monopole. Paul's strong suit, ULF capability ... however monopole bass without adequate LF damping, the decay characteristics may not be pleasant ... resulting in masking in octaves above. Danny's otoh, dipolar top-to-bottom, bottom octave decay isn't an issue with dipole bass. Danny's should possess superior bass resolution. Both gentlemen are genuinely nice guys, with solid contributions to the HiFi scene. Paul used to smoke weed... Danny used to rock a mullet... Rogan loves him some DMT...
hi Danny, i'd really like your take on how to build tube traps for bass. from what i've seen so far you probably already have a video planned on it? thanks
Well done, Danny! If the nay sayers would simply try your informed suggestions for themselves, rather than cling tightly to their preconceived notions, they would experience increased musicality and perhaps become less bitter!
I’m up here in Minneapolis and it’s warmer up here at 36 degrees. As for the video, room treatment and speaker placement are possibly more important than the actual equipment. Unfortunately my primary listening room is pretty messed up with a full wall length window. To compensate, I have to slightly run the speaker on the window side speaker 1.5-3db quieter.
In MSP as well. So glad to have that cold weather behind us. I find it strange so many higher end pieces lack a balance control when soooo many rooms need it like yours.
@@briansimmons5363 I completely agree with you about lacking balance control. When I listen to my tube amp, occasionally I will fully close the blinds to compensate since it doesn’t have balance controls. Sadly I lose the lake view which is the whole point of having the large windows.
I have a Sonic Frontiers preamp that has digital displays showing volume numbers for both left and right, and when you adjust the balance buttons it can be seen as a minus or addition to both sides. It also has a phase button which puts 180 degrees polarity to the speaker wires, and mono button to hear the speakers equally for testing.
In the comments of the last video, I said this " I think cables make a difference but only if you have the rest of your system at a high level. Some people spend thousands of dollars on cables but only spend a $1 on room treatment." Danny explained it much better in this video than I did but i had a feeling he was going to go in that direction. did
An excerpt from a recent REL Acoustics Blog Article: Revisiting Bassline Blue "Something clearly had to be done, you see we’re not one of those head-in-the-sand audio companies that doesn’t believe that cables make no difference. We’ve known for almost 40 years that for speaker cables, interconnects, HDMI and digital-not to mention a/c-we can hear the benefits when they get it right and the downside when it’s poorly executed. Like it or not, cables matter and the flat earth audio types can complain all they want but they’re simply in denial. But connecting to our impedance environment is unique and this is where conventional cable companies get it wrong."
A video with audio where you can hear the sound differences would be great. I have seen that type of shootout done with turntable cartridges. Also, Is it possible to measure the sound difference coming from speakers when using different cables? Got back into vinyl in 2016 and I have learned so much from CZcams and comment sections, keep up the good work!
You always have to keep in mind that what you are hearing from soundclips is not the same as what the person making the clips is hearing. They are hearing things directly while what you hear has been modified by the recording methodology and equipment, post-processing, CZcams's compression, then what your system and room add to the mix. I got a real good feel for this when I watched a CZcams review with soundclips where the audio clips used were made available for download. I downloaded the clips then compared the CZcams video to the clips played directly from my music server. I was able to hear much more from the directs clips. I've done this a number of times now with different CZcams videos when the soundclips were available. It was common for me to not hear differences over CZcams that were clearly evident in the direct clips. The moral of the story is that while soundclips over CZcams can be fun and provide some information, don't make final decisions based on them.
@@michaellundy3551 it seems like if there is a big difference in the sound of different speaker cables you would be able to hear it, even on CZcams. And with the price they are putting on some of these speaker wires you should be able to hear a big difference , even on CZcams videos. Hearing a vinyl album played on CZcams is what made me realize that vinyl sounds much different and started me down the vinyl rabbit hole. It was so immediately noticeable that there was no need in doing an A and B test! That CZcams video of a vinyl album being played has cost me thousands of dollars! Turntable, cartridges, head shells, phono preamp, vacuum record cleaner, milty zerostat anti static gun, onzow zerodust, cans of compressed air, tracking Force gauge, cartridge alignment tool, carbon fiber brushes, stylus brushes, hundreds of vinyl albums. And on and on! Wanting a Raven osprey integrated amplifier and Celeste speaker set up. Or maybe tekton double impact. But the Raven and Celeste speakers are supposed to be matched for each other. Components Synergy is important.
Hi Danny, This is a fantastic channel thank you.Could you one day talk about driver & crossover burn in, i have a pair of ATC scm 19 & ATC amplification.I have been told ATCs take a long time to burn in a simple yes or no would help.
If you set up a good high-end system outside on a field and start listening to music, then that will not sound a mile ... In a listening room it is the same principle. If you want a well-controlled sound, with whatever equipment, you will first have to set up the equipment in the room in such a way that the sound comes into its own ... Super logical ... Regardless of any music system. That's the way it is and no different..... 👌😉👍😘
This is pretty much what Paul at PS Audio has been saying for years: set up your system properly in your specific room. Please give us some insight to your set up method. Or why not make reaction video to Pauls book/CD, whats right and what can be better! Thanks for sharing!
If a DAC can’t reject the noise coming from a USB cable’s 5V line (which is going to be in the MHz at hundredths of a volt) it’s going to have a much harder time with USB’s carrier frequency, a 1KHz square wave.
Ill DIY me some top shelf cable before I ever go near some $500 + set, thats just me. I have fully drank the kool-aid on this matter though, lol! A/B testing between dollar store speaker wire and BestBuy Monster XP platinum wire was astonishing at how much difference I got from my extremely MODEST system!
Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection. The treatment behind the center of the sound stage does not accomplish anything. Use geometry to calculate where the reflections from the speakers will return to the listener. Create a Reflection Free Zone at the listening position. The stereophonic spatial effect is artificial. The stereophonic spatial effect does not replicate natural auditory spatial cues. Phantom stereophonic images are illusions created at the listener's ears, not between the speakers or in the listening room. Sound is produced by the speakers, not by phantom stereophonic images. Sound from speakers reflects from listening room surfaces. There is no sound from phantom stereophonic images to reflect from listening room surfaces. Speaker power response does not replicate the power response of singers and musical instruments in the recording.
Keep a water faucet at a fast drip to a drizzle 24/7 or at least overnight to prevent your pipes from freezing and/or bursting during this subfreezing weather.
Danny, so much information here that I want to break it down into smaller more easily digestible bites. First, let's talk about if someone can perceive a difference in a cable, what is it worth. The speaker cable companies that you referenced had a range from $220 to $107K per 8 foot pair for cables with filtering. Before I would spend even $220, I would try putting a pair of power line EMI filters on the amplifier end of the speaker cables with short 1"or so leads to the amp output connectors and find out if there is any difference with the filtering. These can be bought for $20ea. or less and could save possibility TONS of money. Given that the system with the most noticable effect maybe on the planet is there next to you, it would be possibly really eye opening to try this out on a few of your speakers and amplifiers and comment on your results.
If my speaker cables are acting as antennae and creating a noise base, shouldn't I be able to hear that contribution from the speakers when my amplifier is off to determine how much of a difference it could make in my system with my ears.
Anecdotal evidence is no good. Snake oil salesmen use it all the time so he shouldn't use it...Monty said this and I concur.Everyone and everyone can stake a claim,tell some stories,and make something sound a certain way.The problem with all this is,how many people have listening rooms,and have the time/opportunity to sit in one spot.This is a FEW niche set of people who spend money,who have OPINIONS,and share them among one another.It's the same thing as If I have a Mustang group,where we all own Mustangs,tweak them,show them off,and revel in the merits of said vehicle.The FACT is,Mustangs are NICHE,for whatever reason,and people who are not part of that small group,do not care,do not need to care,and it will never matter.The PURPOSE matters and how we get there,as singular beings,hearing music.This world is all about MP3,BEATS,and whatever else is good enough,through laptops,phones/tablets,etc,etc.That being said,I do have a great system,that can probably be better,yet since I am a diverse person,I use my studio,i use my MiniDisc,I use my laptop,I listen to my records,I listen to CDs,and I also listen to CZcams.
I have my own, personal proof that there's more than simply 1's & 0's being transmitted through USB & optical. Here's a story: I have a very noisy graphics card in my computer. This noise is not from the fans, but is transferred through the power, the digital signal path, or both. If I use a USB only powered DAC (Topping D10, for example), my graphics card will emit an audible whine through the speakers. It is high pitched. It is *not* coil whine from the graphics card, as the sound is traveling through the actual display cables. If I unplug all of my displays the sound is gone. Also, if I unplug my USB keyboard, which is RGB backlit, a different portion of the audio whine goes away. There is something in my computer which is transmitting something else besides simply 1's & 0's. I'm not an engineer, I can't explain it, I can only troubleshoot and explain the effects. I have no idea what the cause is besides my graphics card and backlit keyboard. If I have the Topping D10 powered by only my laptop, which is a different computer entirely, there is no noise coming from the speakers. I also have a USB & Optical DAC which is powered by an external power supply. It picks up the exact same digital signals as the D10. There is more to the audio transfer in these cables than simply 1's & 0's.
This is exactly what I've been saying for years! Most people that say they can't tell the difference between cables, probably have mediocre equipment, poorly set up. Or maybe they have all the life sucked out of it with inexpensive DSP, or inexpensive electronic crossovers*. I have also convinced some friend, on my system, that cables make a difference. *many of the same crowd that believe cables don't make a difference, are also the same people that believe that DSP and electronic crossovers are ALWAYS better than passive crossovers.
Outstanding Danny, thanks for putting in the effort to enlighten the community. I think you've earned a nickname in my eyes, the Sound Preacher. A few of you HiFi evangelists are currently driving the highly emotional obstinate Flat Earthers bonkers.
Probably because the compression and sound quality of CZcams as well as your device isn't going to reveal the differences because the quality of the output is far too poor to be valuable.
@@Furax02 I would like to see people doing blond tests on their end. Having someone change cables and having the listener consistantly picking the more expensive cable.
I gotta say, this fall from grace hurts man. I mean his upgraded crossovers measure so well and his speaker kits are such a great value and honestly great speakers overall... Now measurements no longer matter it’s hard to not judge his previous work based on these revelations. I really hoped he was gonna come out and say: “Listen, these cables work nicely and look cool. Get them if you like”
Yeah it is sad. It would be ok if he said yeah good cables are good cables and if you like what you hear (basically bias) then keep them and that is fine. But just to double down like this is pretty bad.
You must be a democrat. He's a multiple award winning speaker designer, you believe in his crossover designs but you think Danny either incompetent or deceitful in claiming measurements don't tell the whole story when it comes to cables? Let me tell you they don't, even in electronics. Many well known amp designers like Dan D'Agostino and Nelson Pass will tell you the same thing. Put your money where your mouth is and design your own amp and speakers and put them up against Danny's best. If you're not willing to do that then you're a fraud.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Correct, Danny is an award winning speaker designer. He is not an award winning electrical engineer who is specialized in cables. He made now already at least 5 videos about cables without a single (double) blind test. Why? ...
There are 3 main items needed to be addressed in any sound system. A. The rooms acoustic B. The speaker positioning C. The power cable alignment sequence If they are not addressed correctly, then don't bother buying into high end audio. You will just be wasting your time and money.
I think some definition on what that looks like is needed. Does the listener get 5 minutes or 5 days to discern the differences? I'm pretty slow so it takes me some time to understand what changes have occurred. I would also like to see a set of rules and tests for what the listener "sees" in the image created by the system. If we approach this without judgment it could be a wonderful experiment!
@@jameswarren1831 I agree. If there really is a difference that could be heard then it is worth looking into. If it is just snake oil then lets not waste our time. Not knowing what the perfect experiment would be I would say give them as much time as possible. If anybody can hear a difference in any type of cable (USB, speaker, power) no matter how long the time frame then that is good enough for me. I just don't see any examples showing that these things are not snake oil. If there is any difference I would love for Danny to show us with a test I would loved to be proved wrong.
@@da23 I think at the end of the day it's a personal experience and a major indicator of how the brain is wired in the individual. If I hear something and you don't does that make it snake oil or just a different experience. Would you condemn and belittle the person that heard a differance or be happy that they were having a good time? I have heard before that the ability to hear a sound stage is a latent hunting skill, the ability to discern direction and distance is triggered in the music and hence the excitement, good music, and primal brain triggers:) Over the years of making my friends listen to systems, it seems there is a fairly low amount of people that can see the image in 3d space, this does not have any impact on how they enjoy music but they are missing the obsessive chase of imaging. For myself it's the F#!%ing details that make the difference and to be honest sometimes I hate it, it can feel like a waste of money and energy at times.
@@jameswarren1831 Would I condemn and belittle someone?.. No... I don't even know where this is coming from. I'm just asking for blind tests to prove what he is saying. I would love if he could actually tell a difference in ANY type of cable. I don't think he could but if he proved me and other people who don't believe in cables wrong then it would be huge. I honestly would love for it to be true but I want actual evidence from blind test first
@@da23 It's just a question, I don't think it's unfair to determine one's intentions by offering scenarios. What I'm hearing you say and correct me if I'm wrong. You don't believe cables make a difference and are willing to spend time telling people how they are wrong for what they experience, but if it is shown that you are wrong you will be happy?
i just want to see one person demonstrate that they can identify in an AB test that a speaker cable was swapped, and even better, if you can tell me which one is being used. (without being able to see it of course) - one video. it would shut me and a lot of other people up permanently.
well, feel like i need to return to this comment to say i might need to admit i was wrong on this. i came across the exact kind of demonstration that i was looking for, here: czcams.com/video/_llTvQaqSds/video.html the video's author mentions that it's slight, yet enough that i would like to hear for myself. guess i'll be ordering some of your speaker wire at some point. you seem to be one of the least snake-oily types of audio related companies out there, so i feel like i should apologize for passing judgement without hearing first for myself.
I've been trying to improve my knowledge of audiophile stuff for a while now but It's like trying to take a drink from a fire hose. I built a pair of speakers last year and plan to build another this winter and maybe a tube amp kit if I get froggy. : ) What I got from this is the rooms acoustics and speaker placement are the first priority then work on upgrading cables and components. Thanks for the video!
I've been working as an acoustic consultant and vibration engineer for a few years and also have a studio tech background and I am AMAZED by the amount of people that spend 10,20,30+ thousand on a system and not even have ANY acoustic treatment or taken any professional measurements of the listening room.
SO much this. I`m a mastering engineer, our concerns are good speakers and good flat room, audiophile cables are just to sell to the fools at home.
If you had 5 or 10k for a system - 30-50% should go to the acoustics. But noone does this and it's a waste of money and time only focusing on the hifi itself..
@@Hemshemsems the room/acoustics are apart of the whole system, seems to be view as separate. Adjusting the acoustics of the room/room response can actually be done on the cheap ONLY if you have a friend that has the training and industry experience because you can obtain lab data for as sorts of cheap materials and if it looks good on paper and in the software modelling it can be trialed in the room and measured.
@@aussie_philosopher8079 well i don't find acoustic treatments cheap, but compared to doing nothing except speaker placement and a rug on a hardwood floor and nothing on the walls - it does not matter how much you upgrade the hifi - the room will dictate the sound more than we know.. You can do measurements, and it's a parts of it. But diy is fine and I'm not for paying very high sums for fancy absorbers and diffusers, but sadly more advanced acoustic treatments that work well do not come cheap and you also need a lot of them to really make a difference. Always much easier to buy new gadget that does not fix the inherent acoustic problems we all have in normal listening rooms..
@@Hemshemsems that's why I said cheap if you know someone with the training and expertise because you can use lab data and modelling and measurements where others wouldn't know what to do Acoustic materials are materials like anything else, sometimes products have been primarily for acoustics though.
I believe around 90% of us don’t have our speakers 8,7,6,5, feet out in the room, i know I don’t.
Also, a lot of us have a modest system which won’t be able to pick up any difference in exotic cables.
That being said, I love the way my system sounds, I might be missing a lot, but I really enjoy it, and for me is more than enough.
This is why I'm building a dedicated listening room. To push the listening experience as far as possible.
Smart man, I respect that a lot.
I've heard a $30,000 system in a bad room with NO acoustic treatment and terrible dimensions. The space is just as important if not more than the system because a $5000 system can sound like a 30,000 system in a very well designed room.
this means that room treatment is making much more significant impact than cables.
This means that proper speaker placements together with room treatment allow you to properly hear the synergy between all your system electronics and cables, thus giving you the ability to elevate your system performance to a high level, much greater than all average systems out there.
@@andru2625 You are correct.
@@dannyrichie9743 Wouldn't balanced "isolation" power conditioning make a bigger difference, in comparison to eeking out infinitesimal steps with properly spec matched cable? I understand you run your electronics with a battery? Are we on a similar track?
@@wa2368 I use a balanced power supply and batteries. It makes differences in cables even more apparent.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for clarifying good Sir.
I have to agree that noise can cause problems. Remember a square wave isn't one frequency it's the "Sum of 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th harmonics approximates square wave. The end result of adding the first five odd harmonic waveforms together (all at the proper amplitudes, of course) is a close approximation of a square wave." Your D to A converters have anti-aliasing filters and some are better than others. Tubes can have gas in them and the elements can vibrate. Your coils can vibrate in your crossover and act like reverb. I have dipped them to stop that reverb sound. Keep up the great videos. I am looking into buying a kit soon!
The metrics for good audio in any room is Speaker quality and size, stereo triangle placement with optimal wall distance and room echo dampening via acoustic panels or room furnitures/accessoires. if you wanna go hardcore, build a speaker optimised room first so any speaker will sound honest to their potential but this is only for rich people that have nothing else to do, except audio production
and only on the last steps, there follows amp and dac decision, music source but better say mastering, which can be upgraded all together to scale symmetrically
cables matter the very least which is equal to electric current purification via generator so you might just upgrade that too with your cables in your wall with gold cables
The most important component in any high end system is the listening room. I was Al Stiefel's partner who ran the RMAF along with his wife Marjorie. I've heard Danny's rooms at RMAF shows and can tell you, he knows what he is doing.
That's a good testimony. I'd love to visit Danny personally and hear his new listening room once it's finished. I'm sure it'll blow everyone's mind when it's done.
"Balancing Act" is what the whole subject sounds like to me. Room size and treatment, specific sound applications, listening needs, size of speakers, audio equipment and components, cables, etc. I'm learning.. slowly but surely. Thanks, Danny!
Another great video! You're analogy of the giant Where's Waldo book is pretty spot on. When i came to visit back in October, I had never heard a proper high end setup, let alone *anything* open baffle, with tubes, etc. But it gave me a frame of reference on what and how things should sound, especially Soundstage & clarity & imaging. Upgrading my XLS to tube connectors with cheap zipcord was a huge jump in clarity from the stock binding posts. Then getting your 16 strand kit, made a large jump in depth & soundstage, even set on my computer desk surrounded by large displays & against the walls.everything so far has made a difference and I'm interested to see how the new power cord changes things. You have yet to steer me wrong, and its only got me more excited for my NX-Studios & upgraded X-Statiks once they're finished! Keep up the great work & videos Danny!
This whole video is, in my humble experience, 100% true. The more one does with acoustics, the more eye opening the effect acoustics has on things becomes. I essentially haven’t touched the equipment in my systems in a year and half and yet… i continually improve the sound as I refine the acoustic solutions in my two rooms. Danny is hands down the most honest and true source of audio info for the enthusiast (the pro world has been savvy about acoustics for awhile now).
Double Bind tests are done all the time. In fact if it wasn’t in your conclusions would be null and void. You could never get your research peer reviewed.
The subject nor the researcher knows what the subject is presented with (double blind). A third party controls the test. For example in this case (at random) cable A is plugged in then cable B then cable B, A, B, A, A, A, B, A, B, B. The subject will keep track on paper which cable they think they are listening to. The third party keeps track of the cable sequence. The researcher then analyzes the data and draws conclusions. This is what is referred to as a scientific study.
Danny, love your videos! Also a N. Texas resident - we lost power for almost three days, no heat, and no water for 5 days. Hope you fared better!
I think the vídeo title may be Its All about your system (room + equipment + setup). It is the interaction of all variables that result in you hearing (or not) differences between cables.
I'm glad to see you are doing ok Danny, that weather is freaking weird! thanks for all the great information. looking forward to ordering my XLS Encores soon
Yes, the earth IS round. 😁 I’ve heard differences in interconnect and speaker cables in my system. Irrespective of derogatory audiophile labels, I believe Danny’s central point has merit. In my 45 years of HiFi listening experience it has been clearly demonstrated to me that a highly resolving system created through a combination of source, speakers, their placement, room treatment, amplification and front end electronics can indeed show discernible audible differences in cables. Impedance, capacitance and inductance can be measured. The width, depth, height, instrument and vocal imaging cannot be measured by scientific instruments alone. The MOST precise measuring instrument known are your ears and how they are connected to the matter between them.
Something may be measurable. It's the listening that matters the ears don't know about electronic measurements. This is why not a single manufacturer will demonstrate blind tests picking people from the street. They could easily do a single take of that on youtube. Why won't they?
@@edwardbalboa5528 You are nonsense
Confirmation bias. Your brain is lying to you.
When I do blind tests for this (which I consider to essentially be double blind), I just don't allow any talking other than an "OK" word to let the listener know that the switch is done and ready to hit play. This eliminates the switcher from influencing the listener and pretty much makes it double blind. If you want you could even use a computer to pseudo randomly generate a sequence for the switcher to use.
I would use the randomized test as it it can be pretty easy for facial expressions and body language to make an influence, even the tone of the word ok can skew the test.
@@StewartMarkley I highly doubt that the tone of "ok" will tell you which is which. I guess I could get a buzzer or something for them to make a noise with instead. Regardless, I normally have my eyes closed so that I can't get any visual cues. If it's something that makes noise while switching then I step out of the room
@@StewartMarkley you could use lights.
Ooh, I just entered the Audiophool zone...... Jazz Cables!!!
Have you been to the Winchester Mystery House? I have the time of my life there learning about the property. One thing that stood out the most was the ball room. The floor has no nails at all. If I'm not mistaken, no nails were used in the rooms finished work. They (carpenters and engineers) knew that metal causes acoustic anomalies. This was in the early 1900s. Maybe you could ask the property managers to do a sound demo in the ballroom. At the time 2002 they rented the ballroom for special events.
Great video
To summarize there is a lot more grey than black or white - “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”
Thank you, Danny.!
I had to share this video on FB and on Wimkin 🥰
I appreciate your videos and I've noticed some differences in all kinds of cables between gear. Thanks for your sensible explanations.
This fella is terrific. Cable and cord salesman all the way. He's correct about what system would reveal what, and the room parameters. There are plenty of variables. Tough to get them all in sync in real world situations across any kind of board. He's also right if it doesn't matter to you or you can't hear a difference, then that's the real barometer. He's sitting in front of a top notch system in a great listening environment. There's always something better. He'll sell you that Carnegie Hall has nothing on his room. None of the measurements stack up at Carnegie! Specs don't even matter, because nuance comes in to play with great systems-even with non-perfect parts. Manufacturers set biases to have a signature sound. Different wiring sounds different with different components, and often components sound better or worse depending on matching. It goes on into infinity. What's about wiring within the building itself? Is it audiophile grade behind the outlet or even to the power station? He's talking about the last 6 feet in many cases. Does a speaker wire acting as an antenna and power delivery system at once matter? It's get murky when confronted to hear a difference. Do reliable good connections matter-on that everyone should agree.
I agree. I can definitely understand.
You have to have a FOUNDATION of great equipment and a great acoustically tuned LISTENSPACE...
to then began to understand the subtle differences of cables.
It's a bit easier in headphones - but not speakers.
All i can say is three layers of good bath towels works better than one layer of acoustical foam for room treatment
I have a modestly high end headphone setup (around $1600 USD) and I needed to buy a USB audio cable for another application. I figured I'd try the USB on my headphone system thinking it wouldn't make any difference at all. Boy, was I wrong. The amount of detail that came through and the weight in the lower mids was substantial. I had to laugh to myself. Sent me down the rabbit hole but it really does matter. Of course, you can always live in blissful ignorance and be totally happy and I completely respect that (less money out of the pocket!), but if your system is good enough and you care enough, these things are very audible.
Whilst I don’t have a top-end audio system, and there is a rather large bay window in my listening room, I’ve found the difference between cables to be very noticeable. Others have also noticed the same differences when I conducted a blind listening tests for them. It’s such a pointless debate because the answer is so provable.
System: IsoTek Mini Sub mains conditioner ->
Chord Qutest DAC ->
Van Den Hul or Audioquest (Sydney/Evergreen) phono cables ->
Musical Fidelity X-150 amplifier ->
Audio Innovations speaker cables ->
DynAudio Audience 52 & REL T5i
Newbie question- I’m building my Encores. Would there be an advantage to skipping the binding post and solder the speaker wires direct to the crossover?
You can do that, but then when you want to upgrade the speaker cables it makes it pretty tough. The tube connectors are a great connector and comparable to no connector (directly soldered) as they are a pure Copper tube. By using the tube connectors you can swap out speaker cables easily.
You can do a lot on your own without hiring a consultant. Move your speakers out from the walls and place them in the basic recommended positions. Identify the first reflection points on the side, rear, and front walls, ceiling, and floors and either absorb or scatter the sound from as many of those locations as your wife allows. Put Bass traps in the corners. They could be simple rockwool absorption panels in the corners, thick enough to absorb low frequencies. Placing them diagionally across the corner increases their effective thickness. Once you do that, you should be able to hear the difference when you make minor changes to your system. You will be able to identify where a good place is to locate your listening position, where zones are where frequencies are cancelling or amplifing, changes when you tweek speaker location and toe in, stylus changes, different DAC. There is plenty of good advice on youtube. But you will have to separate the wheat from the chaff. I got the basics from youtube. Then I blogged with an acoustic engineer (in Germany) for more advice. I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I two degrees in engineering and an MS in Science (energy), so I probably had an advantage understanding that stuff. I made all my panels myself using rockwool Safe and Sound from Lowes Home improvement. It was cheap and easy. Instructions are on youtube. I also attend AXPONA in Schaumburg IL every year (except Covid when it cancelled.) so I had chances to ask questions and listen to experts. (Some "experts" don't know what they are talking about.) Just doing the basic treatments to first reflection points and adding bass traps allowed me to hear the difference when I made a change to anything, stylus, toe in, DAC, seating, wine, even the most minor change. The more I dialed in the room, the more apparent the change became. Unfortunately it also exposed bad recordings. I have LPs that I can't stand to listen to now.
A demo demonstrates how amazing the placebo effect is. That is a real effect, messured with science.
And yes, it will make you enjoy your system more because you think it sounds better.
So spend all you want on cables if you feel like it.
I mean your brain fools you to see purple even though there is no such thing.
I can easily demonstrate that the differences are real.
So what are the best shielded/non antenna rca cables, XLR cables and speaker cables you suggest on a beer budget?
hello pal.ive been watching a few of your vids now as i do with many others who educate us in hifi etc. i find your discussions the easiest to comprehend. youve already given me many tips and advice on my own system that others dont seem to have managed to do so easy.so thankyou very much..
Great info Danny. The only problem that I have is not having a designated listening room. My wife is not into the music as I am so the system in my house is good but does not show its capabilities. My woodworking shop is pretty much my listening room so having all the accoustic materials on walls is pretty much impossible. I envie the people that are able to have a specific music room and are able to experiment to find the right fit for their system. Thumbs up to all the knowlegde you share with your viewers.
Hello Danny
Very fine listningroom you have. Can you make an video about that room please. Take a tour and let us see the setup with all panels and other good things. And an other video just about your referens setup (part 2)
I second this! A video of how you set up a room. You say in this video that you have diffusers in the back of the curtains.. Show us how you build the rooms.. Video of the room you say it's currently under construction as well.. You want us DIY.. Let's go.. show us.. Lol.. Great work btw.. TY @GRresearch
Wow, this was very educational, very well presented as well! Thank you for sharing this knowledge!
what we experience is not reality - but a simulation of reality in our brain.
... and the brain is famously susceptible to all sorts of biases.
Never underestimate the placebo effects.
Really enjoyed this video Danny you did a great job in explaining what the variables are when your listening for differences in music from the source or the components And of course your speaking from your experiences this is how you learn this stuff it wasn't reading something in a book
I once tried to upgrade a simple 2 channel audio circuit in a pinball machine by upgrading two TDA2002 amps with two TDA2003 amps, some Nichicon fine gold caps, and a few resistors that were supposedly better for an audiophile sound. This circuit was supplied with 12-15 volts and only had about 20 parts in the circuit. When I finished, I could swear that it had actually sounded a little worse. Some of the audio might have improved a bit, but in general, it didn't seem as loud and that was my primary reason to upgrade so I could squeeze a couple more watts out of each channel. In my research beforehand, I had read that circuit design with regard to audio amps was a bit of an art to get the clarity and sound you want out of it. I just assumed I had meddled with a well tuned circuit and done something wrong which caused the degradation of the sound. It wasn't until much later that I learned the TDA2003 amp transistors were Chinese bootleg chips. They were indeed working as an amplifier, but not to the level they were supposed to. I later replaced them with the original and was at least as happy with the circuit as I had been before.
Point is, there is a lot of artistry in circuit design, cross-over design, system set up, speaker design. One could argue its all snake oil, or its all a necessity. I'm reminded of a line from Al Pacino, in Any Given Sunday...."This is a game of inches..." Not every change nets that inch, but audiophiles work for that inch in pursuit of the perfect sound, however you might define that to be.
If this was all specs and formulas, and simple A in = B out, my bootlegged amp would have sounded just the same, but it didn't. Because along with the artistry of design comes a certain degree of intangibles. Not least of which is personal preferences and differences in their hearing.... Or the Odd Chinese bootleg part.
What's your opinion of a system using single ended cables versus a system that uses balanced cables and the amp and preamp have balanced circuitry (ie not just balanced jacks that are just like adapters into single circuitry).
Your an amazing dude. I hope one day I can work along side someone with your passion and dedication. What a role model.
I used to be in the camp that cables didn't matter much. So I tried an experiment with my audio playing, hit pause on my track and turned the volume to max. I'm having a high pitch hiss and tone mostly coming from the tweeter section at loud to max volume and it is audible when playing music loudly as well. I have crap 14awg cables with no sheathing or shielding with Media Bridge bananas, so I decided to move them and reroute the cables away from 2 sub power cables and a tv power cable that were ran along the wall. I redid the same experiment and hit pause at high to max volume with the cables away from everything and my tweeter hiss and high pitch tone went away, especially on the center channel. This actually made the sound much more alive and I had no idea what I was missing since I have had them routed like this from day one. This was a real experiment that proved me wrong about cables, and I'm not a cable guy or audiophile, it is just something that surprised me when I tried it for myself and I got a free upgrade on sound quality in the process. When I get some extra money I will order some cables from you since this idea worked on my noisy system and I have a hunch your cables will be MUCH better at rejecting noise than what I currently use. Thanks Danny
You are welcome!
he's definitely right about room parameters. Little things matter. -with just about everything audio.
My audiophile mentor introduced me to Straightwire interconnects and Kimber speaker cable. We tweeked my mid-fi Early 90’s JVC / Advent system and it sounded much better. As the former bassist and engineer for the Air Force band, I was very aware of what pro sound was capable of, but I had very low expectations of home gear.
You wasted your money.
kudos for your lifetime of dedication to the audio sound. You're employed (as soon as I can afford it). haha
Cables does a lot 100% correct. I'm a diy highend builder. If I told you that internal cabling inside your audio system is even 100% more influenced. I did keep the idea to put my shielded cables in a send and receive way base so input to output correct way one sided shielding.
That gave a enormous differance in Soundstage and 3D imaging.
I like your style of speakers cables.
Keep up the good videos ignore the flat eath beleavers😎
I need some advice. I have managed to buy (I am on a very limited budget) a decent system. My front-end is a Nuforce MSR-1 server and Proceed PDT3 transport. They run through a modified Theta ProPrime DAC (modified to have three co-ax inputs, no optical). I have a Nuforce P-8 preamp and a DIY T-amp power amp. My speakers are, to my mind, somewhat special: I got a set of Miller and Kriesel Satellite 1 speakers (with the Peerless drivers) and I am using it with a Ruark Logrhythm sub. Here is my problem- I have to use the system in a VERY small room, one that doubles as my study. It's about 9.8ft. x 10.5 ft. (3m x 3.2m), with a desk behind the listening position. I have shelves (LP and books) lining the one wall almost to the celing. The other wall is a built-in cupboard of which I have removed the doors (it is full of various parts, speaker drivers, tools, etc.). The main problem is that the speakers must stand close to the wall. As it is, I am sitting only about 5ft to 7ft away from the speakers. I heard what Danny said about placing speakers close to the walls, but I have no other option. I want to use acoustic absorbers on the walls behind the speakers, but will this be enough? Help please. If I should post this on a forum, please direct me there.
Yes to the room, 35-60 % of the system. Cables do make a difference , I have made some bad ones and some really good ones. Room , placement , 20 amp ac with 10 gauge wire with Hospital AC outlets, messed around with a really big isolation transformer which worked for my preamp and Dac , but killed the sound of my power amps.
I'm with ya on most of this, couldn't agree more. But a $50 pair of speaker terminals are going to change my world? That's where I gotta draw the line, because, science. This is my quote, feel free to use it:
"If it makes no difference electrically then it will make no difference audibly"
That is true of anything in the audio spectrum. Why not simply eliminate the tube connectors and just straight solder everything direct? That would be your best possible connection especially if using silver bearing solder. Because every connection is another spot of potential resistance. So "IF" one changes the resistance in a system, one might be able to hear that. But regardless of hearing, we now have the tools readily available to scientifically measure the difference, if any. With tools like REW and a decent mic we don't have to believe in a thing since we can just test and prove it to be real or snake oil. And I am all about those numbers!
Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter.
Cheers 🍻.
Yup! I have had many people come to hear my modest system and comment that they
are hearing things they haven't heard on their own music they brought with them!
Nice, did you treat your room?
@@paulgyro Yes, the room is double use, so I need to move things around when I listen critically, close some drapes, pull the speakers out away from walls, but it's so worth it! Otherwise, I just listen as background music.
Practice, or by reason of use! We can all develop a golden ear!!
Delusions have to be cultivated, just like habits
Any comments on USB inline cleaners ( ifi has one)
Do they work and have you tried them?
Really good. It's difficult to learn much on a full song, you probably get involved. On the short repetitive intros you've got a smaller data set to remember, so maybe that helps to focus . Power cables is going to be interesting, I'm thinking of re-making mine soon.
Again... Makes perfect sense..
Excellent. Now how do we set up the room as you describe?
Great video!
Even my living room Sony 1060 receiver when connected to my mini monitors and REL sub when swaping speaker cables like Cardas Hexlink i got cheap at garage sale it still makes a easily heard difference .
Danny is spot on, more resolving system will easily pin point difference in cables , from AC thru Coax or USB to speaker .
Go read the USB specs and tell me how one certified cable is better then an other at digital transmission reliability and data rate?
@@paulgyro I don't "read" the music I listen to it , and I don't listen to it with palcebo or oscyloscope 😁😉
@@kdomster9141 you don't read it but the USB controller and the DAC does.
@@paulgyro but my well trianed ears listen to it all... at the very end where and what counts 😉
@@kdomster9141 I'm following you here! 🤣 certainly that's where the DAC matters and everything after the DAC. Unless you are Bynar from Star Trek then you don't need a DAC 😉
Danny, how do you think your reference system stacks up against Paul McGowan's IRS Vs? It would be really interesting to have you guys respectfully critique each other's systems.
Sounds like they have similar approach - line source main speakers plus powerful subwoofers
According to someone that used to work with Paul and for Infinity I'm at a different level.
We'll probably never know, but their new Senior Speaker Designer, Chris Brunhaver, recently made substantial upgrades to the low frequency sections of the IRS Vs that your contact has likely never experienced. I get it though...your IB speakers produce a complete different experience.
@@dannyrichie9743 There's some fundamental differences;
1.) IRS-V is dipolar line source, w/quasi-monopole subs.
2.) NX-Treme is dipolar, quasi-point source, w/dipolar subs.
IRS-V are essentially unobtanium, iirc, Paul paid at least $20k, and the entire multi-piece rig had to be rebuilt, including all 12 subs w/12 new amps.
Paul's room is a big weak point, plus the directivity changes from dipole to monopole. Paul's strong suit, ULF capability ... however monopole bass without adequate LF damping, the decay characteristics may not be pleasant ... resulting in masking in octaves above.
Danny's otoh, dipolar top-to-bottom, bottom octave decay isn't an issue with dipole bass.
Danny's should possess superior bass resolution.
Both gentlemen are genuinely nice guys, with solid contributions to the HiFi scene.
Paul used to smoke weed...
Danny used to rock a mullet...
Rogan loves him some DMT...
Danny please do a speaker set up guide.
hi Danny, i'd really like your take on how to build tube traps for bass. from what i've seen so far you probably already have a video planned on it? thanks
There's a mammoth amount of info available for DIY bass absorption, ... including Tube Traps.
You should invite Amir from ASR over.
I'd love to have him over.
Very educational!
9 CZcams interruptions on a 26 minute video, CZcams is going down the tubes
It must be your system. I didn't have any interruption.
@@edgar9651 he's talking about the million ads included in the video. I had them too.
I use brave browser and I never see ads, however, don't the creators make money from ads?
Yes, I'm about done with CZcams. Greedy bastards.
Fast forward to the very end and let it play,then restart the video. Ads will be gone!
I'm in Eastern Washington and we had a couple inches of snow today which is quickly melting. Our high temp is expected to be 48 tomorrow
Well done, Danny!
If the nay sayers would simply try your informed suggestions for themselves, rather than cling tightly to their preconceived notions, they would experience increased musicality and perhaps become less bitter!
I'm game to try as long as you or Danny pay for it.
I tape batteries to mine in the direction of flow and it makes all the difference in the world
I’m up here in Minneapolis and it’s warmer up here at 36 degrees. As for the video, room treatment and speaker placement are possibly more important than the actual equipment.
Unfortunately my primary listening room is pretty messed up with a full wall length window. To compensate, I have to slightly run the speaker on the window side speaker 1.5-3db quieter.
In MSP as well. So glad to have that cold weather behind us. I find it strange so many higher end pieces lack a balance control when soooo many rooms need it like yours.
@@briansimmons5363 I completely agree with you about lacking balance control. When I listen to my tube amp, occasionally I will fully close the blinds to compensate since it doesn’t have balance controls. Sadly I lose the lake view which is the whole point of having the large windows.
I have a Sonic Frontiers preamp that has digital displays showing volume numbers for both left and right, and when you adjust the balance buttons it can be seen as a minus or addition to both sides. It also has a phase button which puts 180 degrees polarity to the speaker wires, and mono button to hear the speakers equally for testing.
In the comments of the last video, I said this " I think cables make a difference but only if you have the rest of your system at a high level. Some people spend thousands of dollars on cables but only spend a $1 on room treatment." Danny explained it much better in this video than I did but i had a feeling he was going to go in that direction.
did
An excerpt from a recent REL Acoustics Blog Article: Revisiting Bassline Blue
"Something clearly had to be done, you see we’re not one of those head-in-the-sand audio companies that doesn’t believe that cables make no difference. We’ve known for almost 40 years that for speaker cables, interconnects, HDMI and digital-not to mention a/c-we can hear the benefits when they get it right and the downside when it’s poorly executed. Like it or not, cables matter and the flat earth audio types can complain all they want but they’re simply in denial. But connecting to our impedance environment is unique and this is where conventional cable companies get it wrong."
A video with audio where you can hear the sound differences would be great. I have seen that type of shootout done with turntable cartridges. Also, Is it possible to measure the sound difference coming from speakers when using different cables? Got back into vinyl in 2016 and I have learned so much from CZcams and comment sections, keep up the good work!
You always have to keep in mind that what you are hearing from soundclips is not the same as what the person making the clips is hearing. They are hearing things directly while what you hear has been modified by the recording methodology and equipment, post-processing, CZcams's compression, then what your system and room add to the mix.
I got a real good feel for this when I watched a CZcams review with soundclips where the audio clips used were made available for download. I downloaded the clips then compared the CZcams video to the clips played directly from my music server. I was able to hear much more from the directs clips. I've done this a number of times now with different CZcams videos when the soundclips were available. It was common for me to not hear differences over CZcams that were clearly evident in the direct clips. The moral of the story is that while soundclips over CZcams can be fun and provide some information, don't make final decisions based on them.
@@michaellundy3551 it seems like if there is a big difference in the sound of different speaker cables you would be able to hear it, even on CZcams. And with the price they are putting on some of these speaker wires you should be able to hear a big difference , even on CZcams videos. Hearing a vinyl album played on CZcams is what made me realize that vinyl sounds much different and started me down the vinyl rabbit hole. It was so immediately noticeable that there was no need in doing an A and B test! That CZcams video of a vinyl album being played has cost me thousands of dollars! Turntable, cartridges, head shells, phono preamp, vacuum record cleaner, milty zerostat anti static gun, onzow zerodust, cans of compressed air, tracking Force gauge, cartridge alignment tool, carbon fiber brushes, stylus brushes, hundreds of vinyl albums. And on and on! Wanting a Raven osprey integrated amplifier and Celeste speaker set up. Or maybe tekton double impact. But the Raven and Celeste speakers are supposed to be matched for each other. Components Synergy is important.
Hi Danny,
This is a fantastic channel thank you.Could you one day talk about driver & crossover burn in, i have a pair of ATC scm 19 & ATC amplification.I have been told ATCs take a long time to burn in a simple yes or no would help.
I have ATC 19's in house now. More on them soon.
If you set up a good high-end system outside on a field and start listening to music, then that will not sound a mile ... In a listening room it is the same principle. If you want a well-controlled sound, with whatever equipment, you will first have to set up the equipment in the room in such a way that the sound comes into its own ... Super logical ... Regardless of any music system. That's the way it is and no different.....
👌😉👍😘
17:22 GOLD, Key to every Hobby
Solid 👍
This is pretty much what Paul at PS Audio has been saying for years: set up your system properly in your specific room. Please give us some insight to your set up method. Or why not make reaction video to Pauls book/CD, whats right and what can be better!
Thanks for sharing!
If a DAC can’t reject the noise coming from a USB cable’s 5V line (which is going to be in the MHz at hundredths of a volt) it’s going to have a much harder time with USB’s carrier frequency, a 1KHz square wave.
Will you be at RMAF this year? I don't see you on the exhibitor list. I would love to hear the system!
Pretty speakers.
Yep...we are all just trying to get the ideal playback.. I mean last time I checked concerts were 100 per seat + you get drunk folks acting crazy ect.
Please do tips on room treatment techniques
Here 's a no-nonsense guy on accoustics: czcams.com/video/vvoDuBnElao/video.html
Ill DIY me some top shelf cable before I ever go near some $500 + set, thats just me. I have fully drank the kool-aid on this matter though, lol! A/B testing between dollar store speaker wire and BestBuy Monster XP platinum wire was astonishing at how much difference I got from my extremely MODEST system!
I love your thoughts on human psychology in consumer audio, if only you did as much research on a actual flat earth theory
Wow. You're sitting in a large room, trying to heat it up. That takes a lot of energy. Instead of wearing a t-shirt, wear a jumper. 🤣
Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection. The treatment behind the center of the sound stage does not accomplish anything. Use geometry to calculate where the reflections from the speakers will return to the listener. Create a Reflection Free Zone at the listening position.
The stereophonic spatial effect is artificial. The stereophonic spatial effect does not replicate natural auditory spatial cues. Phantom stereophonic images are illusions created at the listener's ears, not between the speakers or in the listening room. Sound is produced by the speakers, not by phantom stereophonic images. Sound from speakers reflects from listening room surfaces. There is no sound from phantom stereophonic images to reflect from listening room surfaces. Speaker power response does not replicate the power response of singers and musical instruments in the recording.
Keep a water faucet at a fast drip to a drizzle 24/7 or at least overnight to prevent your pipes from freezing and/or bursting during this subfreezing weather.
Danny, so much information here that I want to break it down into smaller more easily digestible bites.
First, let's talk about if someone can perceive a difference in a cable, what is it worth. The speaker cable companies that you referenced had a range from $220 to $107K per 8 foot pair for cables with filtering. Before I would spend even $220, I would try putting a pair of power line EMI filters on the amplifier end of the speaker cables with short 1"or so leads to the amp output connectors and find out if there is any difference with the filtering. These can be bought for $20ea. or less and could save possibility TONS of money. Given that the system with the most noticable effect maybe on the planet is there next to you, it would be possibly really eye opening to try this out on a few of your speakers and amplifiers and comment on your results.
If my speaker cables are acting as antennae and creating a noise base, shouldn't I be able to hear that contribution from the speakers when my amplifier is off to determine how much of a difference it could make in my system with my ears.
I had some cables that picked up the local radio stations and i could make out the songs and words 🙄🙄🙄
That is very common. And it kind of flies in the face of the cable naysayers that say it will have no effect.
This is one of your best videos. Thank you.
Anecdotal evidence is no good.
Snake oil salesmen use it all the time so he shouldn't use it...Monty said this and I concur.Everyone and everyone can stake a claim,tell some stories,and make something sound a certain way.The problem with all this is,how many people have listening rooms,and have the time/opportunity to sit in one spot.This is a FEW niche set of people who spend money,who have OPINIONS,and share them among one another.It's the same thing as If I have a Mustang group,where we all own Mustangs,tweak them,show them off,and revel in the merits of said vehicle.The FACT is,Mustangs are NICHE,for whatever reason,and people who are not part of that small group,do not care,do not need to care,and it will never matter.The PURPOSE matters and how we get there,as singular beings,hearing music.This world is all about MP3,BEATS,and whatever else is good enough,through laptops,phones/tablets,etc,etc.That being said,I do have a great system,that can probably be better,yet since I am a diverse person,I use my studio,i use my MiniDisc,I use my laptop,I listen to my records,I listen to CDs,and I also listen to CZcams.
I have my own, personal proof that there's more than simply 1's & 0's being transmitted through USB & optical.
Here's a story: I have a very noisy graphics card in my computer. This noise is not from the fans, but is transferred through the power, the digital signal path, or both. If I use a USB only powered DAC (Topping D10, for example), my graphics card will emit an audible whine through the speakers. It is high pitched. It is *not* coil whine from the graphics card, as the sound is traveling through the actual display cables. If I unplug all of my displays the sound is gone. Also, if I unplug my USB keyboard, which is RGB backlit, a different portion of the audio whine goes away. There is something in my computer which is transmitting something else besides simply 1's & 0's. I'm not an engineer, I can't explain it, I can only troubleshoot and explain the effects. I have no idea what the cause is besides my graphics card and backlit keyboard.
If I have the Topping D10 powered by only my laptop, which is a different computer entirely, there is no noise coming from the speakers.
I also have a USB & Optical DAC which is powered by an external power supply. It picks up the exact same digital signals as the D10. There is more to the audio transfer in these cables than simply 1's & 0's.
This is exactly what I've been saying for years!
Most people that say they can't tell the difference between cables, probably have mediocre equipment, poorly set up. Or maybe they have all the life sucked out of it with inexpensive DSP, or inexpensive electronic crossovers*.
I have also convinced some friend, on my system, that cables make a difference.
*many of the same crowd that believe cables don't make a difference, are also the same people that believe that DSP and electronic crossovers are ALWAYS better than passive crossovers.
Outstanding Danny, thanks for putting in the effort to enlighten the community. I think you've earned a nickname in my eyes, the Sound Preacher. A few of you HiFi evangelists are currently driving the highly emotional obstinate Flat Earthers bonkers.
I never see blind tests. I wonder why that is?
Probably because the compression and sound quality of CZcams as well as your device isn't going to reveal the differences because the quality of the output is far too poor to be valuable.
@@Furax02 I would like to see people doing blond tests on their end. Having someone change cables and having the listener consistantly picking the more expensive cable.
@@fierychilipeppers494 Like that couldn't be staged either way??
Coming....
I SEE what you did there!
I gotta say, this fall from grace hurts man. I mean his upgraded crossovers measure so well and his speaker kits are such a great value and honestly great speakers overall... Now measurements no longer matter it’s hard to not judge his previous work based on these revelations. I really hoped he was gonna come out and say: “Listen, these cables work nicely and look cool. Get them if you like”
Yeah it is sad. It would be ok if he said yeah good cables are good cables and if you like what you hear (basically bias) then keep them and that is fine. But just to double down like this is pretty bad.
Wait for the power cables in the next episode. Now they will make the REAL difference - after that power traveled kilometers in cheap cables. ;)
You must be a democrat. He's a multiple award winning speaker designer, you believe in his crossover designs but you think Danny either incompetent or deceitful in claiming measurements don't tell the whole story when it comes to cables? Let me tell you they don't, even in electronics. Many well known amp designers like Dan D'Agostino and Nelson Pass will tell you the same thing. Put your money where your mouth is and design your own amp and speakers and put them up against Danny's best. If you're not willing to do that then you're a fraud.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt A democrat a fraud, lol. Maybe he should present his evidence. Because for now he hasn't showed any.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Correct, Danny is an award winning speaker designer. He is not an award winning electrical engineer who is specialized in cables. He made now already at least 5 videos about cables without a single (double) blind test. Why? ...
There are 3 main items needed to be addressed in any sound system.
A. The rooms acoustic
B. The speaker positioning
C. The power cable alignment sequence
If they are not addressed correctly, then don't bother buying into high end audio.
You will just be wasting your time and money.
So could you please tell me what USB & HDMI 2.1 cables I should be looking for? I am in Europe, tell me where to go and I will be there 👍🎶
Could you give details of curtains danny? I wonder these curtains are hifi dedicated or anything else?
They are a heavy fleece material. We made them for taking to shows.
Danny, will you do a blind test of USB cables? I want to see you show that what you are saying is proved practically
I think some definition on what that looks like is needed. Does the listener get 5 minutes or 5 days to discern the differences? I'm pretty slow so it takes me some time to understand what changes have occurred. I would also like to see a set of rules and tests for what the listener "sees" in the image created by the system. If we approach this without judgment it could be a wonderful experiment!
@@jameswarren1831 I agree. If there really is a difference that could be heard then it is worth looking into. If it is just snake oil then lets not waste our time. Not knowing what the perfect experiment would be I would say give them as much time as possible. If anybody can hear a difference in any type of cable (USB, speaker, power) no matter how long the time frame then that is good enough for me. I just don't see any examples showing that these things are not snake oil. If there is any difference I would love for Danny to show us with a test I would loved to be proved wrong.
@@da23 I think at the end of the day it's a personal experience and a major indicator of how the brain is wired in the individual. If I hear something and you don't does that make it snake oil or just a different experience. Would you condemn and belittle the person that heard a differance or be happy that they were having a good time? I have heard before that the ability to hear a sound stage is a latent hunting skill, the ability to discern direction and distance is triggered in the music and hence the excitement, good music, and primal brain triggers:) Over the years of making my friends listen to systems, it seems there is a fairly low amount of people that can see the image in 3d space, this does not have any impact on how they enjoy music but they are missing the obsessive chase of imaging. For myself it's the F#!%ing details that make the difference and to be honest sometimes I hate it, it can feel like a waste of money and energy at times.
@@jameswarren1831 Would I condemn and belittle someone?.. No... I don't even know where this is coming from. I'm just asking for blind tests to prove what he is saying. I would love if he could actually tell a difference in ANY type of cable. I don't think he could but if he proved me and other people who don't believe in cables wrong then it would be huge. I honestly would love for it to be true but I want actual evidence from blind test first
@@da23 It's just a question, I don't think it's unfair to determine one's intentions by offering scenarios. What I'm hearing you say and correct me if I'm wrong. You don't believe cables make a difference and are willing to spend time telling people how they are wrong for what they experience, but if it is shown that you are wrong you will be happy?
i just want to see one person demonstrate that they can identify in an AB test that a speaker cable was swapped, and even better, if you can tell me which one is being used. (without being able to see it of course) - one video. it would shut me and a lot of other people up permanently.
well, feel like i need to return to this comment to say i might need to admit i was wrong on this. i came across the exact kind of demonstration that i was looking for, here: czcams.com/video/_llTvQaqSds/video.html the video's author mentions that it's slight, yet enough that i would like to hear for myself. guess i'll be ordering some of your speaker wire at some point. you seem to be one of the least snake-oily types of audio related companies out there, so i feel like i should apologize for passing judgement without hearing first for myself.
Come on over and you can experience for yourself.
No doubt about it, the earth is round...
I've been trying to improve my knowledge of audiophile stuff for a while now but It's like trying to take a drink from a fire hose. I built a pair of speakers last year and plan to build another this winter and maybe a tube amp kit if I get froggy. : ) What I got from this is the rooms acoustics and speaker placement are the first priority then work on upgrading cables and components. Thanks for the video!
Danny, when are you going to sell the Dodd amp clones?