This is indicative of 2 things: A buff mechanic like this needs a better visual ingame and not a combination of 5 buffs being up spread over 2 rows of buffs. An actual ingame visual that somehow reflects on roll the bones outcomes. Not with some caption but just a standard proc visual representing what just happened.
Outlaw is designed bad so people think they need this to play halfway decent. Roll the bones ruins the class. If it weren't for that mechanic it would be fun
Or remove the ability that is so complex it incentivizes the use of a weakaura to tell you if it's good or not. Simpler spec design is better in the long run than a bunch of workarounds for not having an addon to help the player.
@@needsanameedit4982The thing is though its not even complex, you don't really change anything based off rolls cause your rotation stays the same. Outlaw really isn't that complicated, it looks hard on the surface but really the difficulty of it is overblown for sure.
@@la7era1u54Disagree. Outlaw isn't fun. It's a fucking joke spec. As a longtime rogue - Sub / sass. I fucking cringed with the thumbnail. Seeing those outlaw buffs reminded me of how non rogue specs exist within the rogue class. Beyond cringe that people are playing outlaw over sass and sub. Blizz shouldn't even be entertaining it. And with how terrible rogues have been majority of this xpac, was the best time to leave. Wotlk is meta, why would anyone want to play retail at this rate. Venruki is complaining cause he's passionate, however blizzard don't give a flying fuck. And honestly insanity to keep trying to help blizz, better to cut your losses and move onto better games / bigger moments in personal life.
Outlaw is the prime example of a spec that's so convoluted that it's impossible to play well without addons/WeakAuras. I'd really like to see a Blizzard dev play Outlaw with the base UI and explain how they expect players to manage all the stuff that's going on, and why they think that design is good.
Yeah i realistically don't see someone playing certain classes or specs without addons due to how poorly in game the information is represented/ displayed.
@@jacksonlittle5993 I dont had any issues regarding raid or m+ in the beginning of DF. I just looked up what it is the bosses do and done. You kinda dont need an addon if you not progress thru mythic in the first 3 weeks. You just have to use your eyes and your brain... I know a completely new concept :D I bet a lot of you would even use chatGPT to play for you if it is an addon all high end guild use :D
@@Wogrim yeah. When you literally cannot perform w/o addon, it's a fundamental game problem. IMO, the game is too complicated, too much stuff: too many abilities; too many talents; too many procs, interdependencies and multipliers; too much micro cc that makes it lose its impact; too many systems all around.
Some weakauras are very nice for ppl with disabilities like me (i am 60% blind) so weakauras in middle of my screen and sounds help me alot to actually play WoW on a decent level. So if you remove addons, wa's, whatever I will at least suffer alot from that, ill admit. I hear "normal" ppl already struggle to track certain things. For example they recently removed nameplates on FAR distance in rated battlegrounds, i struggle quite hard without that now :).. But anywayz i hope you all gamers are happy anyway, greetings.
Accessibility should be a baseline part of the game and not require you to use addons. Blizzard are way behind of the curve on this compared to other companies.
No. Sorry you are disabled but you don’t understand - Blizzard owns any addon created for the game. They just have to not be lazy, and hardcode it natively. They won’t do this because it requires them accepting responsibility for any system crashes, data theft, or hacking involved as a result of a downloaded Weak Aura script (all that gibberish you faithfully copy and paste from sketch code depositories with lots of paid advertisements, yea? Yep) My advice is for you to give FFXIV a chance past level 50, that’s when the game gets good. You will also notice all QoL “addons” are done inside the game and fully customizable UI. Blizzard is lazy. Blizzard is bad.
This is a problem with maintenance buffs in a rotation. Addons just make it so the design is bearable. The alternative is to stare at a buff bar thats full of procs that dance around figuring out if something has fallen off or not. Blade flurry could be a toggle, slice and dice could be straight up deleted. Remove ghostly strike and just buff outlaw's base damage by 15%.
maintenance buffs are the least fun thing in the world, especially when its a separate button from your fun to press buttons. Outlaw has the double down of having an RNG maintenance buff on top of it which is just suffering.
Slice and Dice was deleted in Legion. I wasn't a fan of Outlaw rerolling buffs over and over for good rng, but Sub and Assassination felt way better I feel without it.
No, this just shows how terrible the playerbase are that they insist on playing the most complicated spec with trainingwheels instead of investing the time it takes to main a spec.
@padshardbank No, he's saying that because add ons have been so integral for so long that without them, everyone cries that the specs is unplayable, when those of us who don't use add ons have been doing it for years. 'Unplayable' is a sweaty term, you guys are so scared of not min maxing that you are actively stunting the growth of the game you love. Add ons ruin this game, fact. Disagree if you want but your arguing in bad faith.
This was NEVER a WA problem. This is a Blizzard is completely DOGSHIT at delivering information players need to see. It's actually that simple. The games gotten more complicated and Blizzard still treats the UI and how you see information and mechanics like we are still playing Vanilla. It's actually awful playing this game without WAs and addons.
The worst part about this is that instead of looking at this vid and coming to the conclusion "the game is too god damn convoluted and complicated for new people to get into", their takeaway will be "disable addons and reduce what macros can do! That'll teach them from optimizing the fun out of our game! ;)". Addons like weakauras and macros are the symptom, but the way the game is being developed is the root cause. For example, dots used to do quite big pumper damage up until one Legion patch( can't remember which one), afterwhich they tanked dot damage down for basically all ranged rot specs like SP and Warlock, because it was apparently too easy. In the place of that damage being flatline part of those dots, they put more importance on maintaining different buffs, auras and states to maximize your damage. Windowing damage to a fluctuating damage window, if you like. They essentially turned their game from "press x button to deal y amount of damage" to "Press x button within an aura z to deal maximum Dps". This is why the game was and still is to this date somewhat cooldown dependent. Classic has many faults in its game design, but the fact that abilities feel meaty and good to use and they are not complicated is because they are not stacked in windows of opportunity. Probably the worst offender of this decade is the Monk spinning crane kick buff. If you didn't have a weakaura, you were playing russian roulette every single time the monk used it in arena, even outside cooldowns.
solutions like this come when there are problems. very, very few ppl go through the hassle to fix something that ain't broken (to get some 0,001% advantage). But when the game becomes overly complicated, when everything is conditional (when you have buff W, press X for buff Y, then wait 3 seconds to activate ability Z), these solutions become mandatory... Wow needs some 50% purging in most areas of the game (classes, systems: gear, professions, tokens, etc.) and blizz seems to go in the opposite direction with next expansions. You're gonna need a PhD in a certain class in order to play it optimized. And who's got time for that when they come home from a 9to5? God forbid you have other obligations like kids or elderly parents...
I like how WeakAura's is apparently a problem... when your spell bar UI is full of +shift and +control function macros, on individually set bars that can cycle between multiple spells, and you have tooltips turned off (not native function). My man, being taught how to correctly do the SPELL ROTATION is NOT a fucking problem! WoW running 25 different Russian kachina nesting dolls JUST TO CALCULATE YOUR DAMAGE... IS!!!
People had fun on "outlaw" rogue when the rotation was sinister strike and slice and dice with once every 3 minute eviscerate rupture or expose armor usage during Adrenaline Rush. And we know that because people are doing it right now on classic. Rotational complexity doesn't beget fun, and I thought Blizzard learned this lesson in Legion. There is a reason it was an island of enjoyability for so many people. And then in BFA they started backsliding by reintroducing complexity and unnecessary shit like group buffs again.
@@Nightstalker314 I mean you are right people that think like him are obviously bad at the game but lets be honest here doin dungeons is not comparable to arena you can do +20 killing npc's with your monitor off
This is true all u need to do is watch a mechanics video lol and boom all mythic plus dungeons can easily be completely I myself have 3k rating @@Sergyjias
half of this stuff is kinda egregious but tbh half of it is also stuff that absolutely should be in the base UI that I can't really fault people for wanting (seeing how long you have left on subterfuge, being aware of what roll the bones even gave you without trying to decipher a mess of a million buff icons etc.)
The problem isn't just with addons; the issue lies in the fact that in order to play the game "correctly," you need to study every possible combination of buffs and how everything works together. It's like having a second job. When an addon can automate that process, people will naturally opt for it because they simply want to enjoy playing the game rather than dedicating extensive time to deciphering every modification the developers implement between patches.
Afaik the buffs don't really change your rotation or anything so no you don't need to study every possible combination of buffs. Outlaw is pretty simple to play ngl, any spec requires some amount of learning, Outlaw's rotation is very simple so spending a few minutes to look up what your buffs do isn't outrageous imo
then dont play the spec if you dont want to play the "hardest" rogue spec. There is no reason to allow borderline cheating because you guys are too bad at the game and need the weakaura.
@@toxicginger6916 I have the original WA of this for m+ and I can tell u that this spec is almost not playable on an acceptable level with the buff priority in different scenarios. Also the buffs do change your rotation around quite a bit. Speaking from a PVE not PVP standpoint here :)
@@quintit I hate playing wow bc players all act like you should already know everything. anytime I have a question people act like “how do you not know this” what a douche. I’ve been playing for like 2 years and there’s a lot of shit to learn sorry
@@alextyler5631 this has nothing to do with wow, you're just a moron who begs for answers to questions that are obviously suited for google. There is a reason "let me google that for you" is a real website
This is a game issue not an addon issue. If you need to stare at the buffs bar for more than a second to figure out whether you have the right buff up it's a broken interface. Blizzard should implement a better interface. But to be honest I will still make my own since I will do a better job.
The weakaura is not the problem, buff clarity in the base game needs to be way better, it's barely changed in 20 years. It would be great if they made every relevant trigger/proc appear similarly to things like fingers of frost on a mage, a clean visual element on your screen that can optionally be turned off.
seriously, hes going to far with complaining about things in the game. And this one is way too far, combat rogue has way too many buffs to track and then reroll and watching cc/debuffs and trinkets. the game is bascialy a bad verison of BOP IT. The Ui is so bad and blizzard has barely started to implement there own UI.
@@fartsonuBut that's kind of the point he's making. The class shouldn't require a WA to manage all those buffs. The game shouldn't require WAs to play and keep track of pertinent info. As other people have pointed out a lot of gaming companies just have that info as part of their default UI. This season's prot pally 4pc is a good example. One of your consecrates is empowered. Can you easily tell which one without a WA? Nope.
playing OL without roll/proc wa is like you trying to swim in pool full of sharks with weights on you ankles and its old as the spell is, its just personal tweaks how you want it to show stuff , mine glow green/orange/red depends on roll alert sounds on 3 sec left on all buff/proc timers ....
i agree addons and also some macros have gone too far, but the way many classes play, that the resto shaman alone has like 12-14 different CDs to track or the amount of CDs and different buffs even combat rogue has and needs to keep active, of course most people need addons for that, its too just much, yes removing addons is definetly a good thing, but theres no point in removing addons yet keep the classes having 10 different cds and buffs and especially healers in general have too many buttons.
ngl i made a stance macro to only use BTE in stealth but after just one hour i remembered that bliz already has a fix for abilities that you only want to use in stealth and its called a stealth bar....outlaw is ridiculous but idk that macro is revolutionary or anything im surprised so many people are blown away by stuff like that. also ghostly strike isnt on gcd so is it really mind blowing to have it macro'd into something when you're doing your burst? I dont use any WA on my rogue so i cant speak on that but the macros to me dont seem outlandish vs the stuff we used in cata or mop
i am still dreaming of WoW server where addons will be forbidden, where you can literally show you true skill without mathematicall addons that runs for you and make ur game easier
I dont think I could enjoy the game without a damage meter to see how I and others are doing. but I do think Addons like weak aura's have taken things way too far.
Love how he says “these weak auras and macros are insane” they seem basic tbh, not that complex to make and not that much of a game changer. Sorry for having a reminder on snd without staring at my buff bar all game, or not counting all my roll the bone buffs and debating on rerolling.
Also he showed this off on a fresh 70 with shuff mmr being fucked, one of his opponents wasn’t even 600 rating XD. Also 1800 is the new 1400 in shuffle bc of mmr being so skewed. Also only going 4-2 not even 6-0
@@DH-ht9pl we are salty? You’re calling for blizz to ban something legal since 2004. Hell before that even. Did you ever wonder where dota came from? Warcraft 3 mods. Saying this thing is cheating when it’s been a thing for 2 decades now bc you’re salty for being hard stuck 600 and don’t want to install gladius XD.
Ye, UI has problems, not showing you IMPORTANT buffs at all visually visible when you are in the middle of the game (and maybe full of adrenaline unable to see small buff indicators), so it not like WA is too good, but the indications ingame are really bad. (or to say what you can set up are lacking).
I've been playing WoW since mid TBC in 2008 and it still baffles me that people think stuff like this is new. Does nobody remember the original addon called "Power Auras" that Weak Auras was made from? This stuff has been in the game almost the entire time it's been out.
my rogue is the least toon i've spent time on this expansion just because of that... i've used a pretty basic build while leveling, no stealth dancing cuz it felt clunky, but going into m+ and see damage done less than tank i was thinking how on earth?? what am i doing wrong...the dps is just crappy without that aura/macro...sad.🤐
Literally basing a class around having all the rng buffs is the issue. If we want to limit addons make the UI better or quit making classes with all these rbg buffs. bring back combat rogue
If only Blizzard knew how their specs played so they could implement a built-in system for new players and people who would like to play more than 1 character. 😂
I removed all the extra stuff a while back. Its a lot more fun. Especially dueling and battlegrounds.. even pve, i havent had dbm in years. Im also ok with chilling in the rat leagues of arena and not mythic raiding. The game is fun at its base state. And in fact you scratch that itch to compete at a higher octave
Honestly you don’t need any addons to play the game, I even tested this out for myself and deleted my addons for a month and still haven’t re downloaded. It actually made me pay attention more to my cool downs and figure out how to cowntown in my head. What I think needs to be updated and you can debate with me on this, but I think the spell animations need to be flashier so you know when people use burst cool downs and other things. I know to RoS my self or my target when a mage combust, cause visually I can see it. But I never can tell when a DH use cds cause all their spells look the same. You make that change, and I bet you don’t need addons
Eh I don’t need that addon to play outlaw rogue efficiently and I parse like 95-99’s…. I can see how they can help people who are new to playing outlaw they are good weak auras I like them .
use google lol are u actually this helpless? Also, realistically you only need an aura bar to track ur buffs since sometimes the weakaura has u play slightly suboptimally
I feel like needing these weak auras or feeling like you need them just means the game is too complicated and would have more people playing if it was easier and you didn't need a bunch of add-ons
Bro i've had these addons on my alt outlaw for like 2 months now and i barely play the game. You can get all these addons separately and in game within 5 minutes of google.
i remember finding out that there are add ons that will give you audio queues if youre going to be polymorphed. Even if the mage is not on the screen. LOL delete add ons from combat they are playing the game better than the players are and are a plague to the game.
WA is needed because there is just to many buffs to track and times to track while trying to fight and stay alive all at same time with the default UI it's terrible.
I have been playing without any PVP-weakauras for a long time and since i got a diminishing-returns weakaura my winrate has increased a lot (obviously). But degenerate shit like this really makes me wonder if and where devs should draw the line in terms of disabling weakauras in PVP. I mean i would 100% prefer if ingame information would tell me vital information without needing weakauras. I like how we have gotten the basic-ui overhaul in dragonflight, but sadly they did not really update it as much as they announced.
That macro to not use bte isnt great bc theres times when you can use it out of crack shot window bc vanish and shadow dance wont be up before the cd of bte resets
This is the best example for: How to destroy skill sceiling and gameplay fun by just putting in Addons and the way macros can be used. Might be fun at first but ruining everyones experience longterm. This gets me less excited to Play again than the War Within Cinematic Trailer. I feel so sad about WoW 😢
That wa isnt even as bad as other things, iv seen people who have addons that are literally a rotation helper, it tells you what to push, you push it, and top dam. It shows u the icon and tells you the keybind and then u just push that keybind and ez. I feel like that's cheating at that point. There's nothing you need to know or keep track of at that point.
this weakaura have existed since bfa and people are now finding it ? like srs... used to use it for some awhile till i knew when to actually roll and when not to
That´s a basic PvE weakaura! xD There are others that literally tell you what to press next! They are 90% accurate too. Won´t give you a 99 parse but makes you pretty good instantly, even on your first day playing a spec! 😆
I don't really care. I am personally of the very unpopular opinion that they should implement rotation botting/automation/assistance(or cut back on the complexity of rotations), whatever you want to call it, as a baseline in WoW. With the caveat that "manual" playing yields better results when executed perfectly(dunno maybe tune it to 75%/80% of max. possible damage/healing by limiting automated chars with a longer GCD/simple % damage nerf or something). Then massively cut back on information UI addons are able to access. Wholla, done. Top puritan players should be happy( because it would not effect them at all), boons who would use bots or weakauras like this, should be happy. Bot sellers and creators of these kind of weakauras should be less happy.
I've been making macros like that for years. I's so easy to find a random little conditional to completely remove the possibility for mistakes. Then the secret sauce..... Once you have macros that *cant make mistakes*.. you just use turbo keys and your whole rotation becomes automated. And this isn't even remotely uncommon in higher tiers. Almost everyone does this.
I feel like this video is just venruki needing something to make a video about. Theres no real issue here. A wa telling you that slice and dice fell off or you have bad buffs and should reroll isnt op. Anyone who plays outlaw already knows if their buffs are bad or not, they dont need a wa to tell them that with huge text in the middle of the screen that can block important castbars on nameplates so you miss them. In the past you just knew from reading a guide that for instance you rerolled any buff except broadsides or skull and crossbones and kept any 2 buffs you got, it seemed to change with different patches what buffs to keep but just go read or join the rogue discord. Huge text saying AWESOME when you get 5 buffs wont increase your dps or otherwise make you play better. The wa telling you to use blade flurry isnt crazy either. It gives combo points per mob hit so use it to build cps, duh. Slice and dice fell off? Well If you didnt see that you mustve missed it in the upper right corner so you should get a wa pack. Theres thousands off them on wago just go grab any. New players will have to play for a bit before they figure everything out but theyre busy doing leveling content where sitting on bte or letting slice fall off isnt gonna hurt their parse in the leveling dungeon or world quest anyway. And by the time it does matter they would have learned like we all learned from playing the game, watching streamers, talking to friends, reading the guides and discord.
Um...gnomesequencerenhanced kinda handles that already. And it has been available for years. For specs with easy priority rotations (Ret, HDH, MM) a macro or two made with GSE can reduce your main damage buttons to two action bar slots.
@@edwardhatfield5360 I mean I already figured. It’s why I quit retail. So obvious when people cheat. Especially after supatease first recorded that Ele sham from s1.
@@drutrotter3860 the Ele shaman issue was a real cheat, as it is a bot script that plays your character for you, unless your talking about the conditional macro that only uses instant cast lava bursts. Conditional macros have existed about as long as wow. And yeah, conditional macro commands work with GSE, so you can have a macro that cannot inturupt your own casting, or only cast abilities in or out of steath or only in or out of combat ect. Lots of brain power can be made free to worry about character positioning, defensives, and utility, when doing nearly optimal burst damage is 5 buttons instead of 15.
Video title should be "PvP players find stuff pvers use since ages", roll of the bones WA was a thing when a spell released. Just got red color for bad rolls yellow for avg and green for good. Also not WA issue game design issue. Your mechanic like this needs a better visual ingame, then we dont use WA for it. WA become huge cause combat design has major flaws and buffdebuff bloat.
i mean let's be real.. that's one of the most basic weakauras on wago and has been on there for as long as RtB exists. the only problem it shows is that blizz's way of tracking cds is fucking dogshit.
Somthing I don't think some people get is for people like me, to play high-level pve I do need weak auras for stuff, I don't get to play all day everyday so unlike alot of content creators who play all day every day. But this feels very much like a pve vs pvp thing.
Problem with wow is addons to optimize game play and calculate everything, then it makes players feel inferior cause everything is calculated. Remove all addons just like ffxv, enjoy the game play not the numbers. Roll the bones buff last 30 sec and could potentially be refresh as needed and dps loss is not even that crazy, but everything is optimized and calculated, all about numbers, removes what the game is trying to archieve, why have a talent trees lol.
This is indicative of 2 things:
A buff mechanic like this needs a better visual ingame and not a combination of 5 buffs being up spread over 2 rows of buffs.
An actual ingame visual that somehow reflects on roll the bones outcomes. Not with some caption but just a standard proc visual representing what just happened.
Outlaw is designed bad so people think they need this to play halfway decent. Roll the bones ruins the class. If it weren't for that mechanic it would be fun
Or remove the ability that is so complex it incentivizes the use of a weakaura to tell you if it's good or not. Simpler spec design is better in the long run than a bunch of workarounds for not having an addon to help the player.
@@la7era1u54 holy moly so based. Remove RtB and call it Combat instead of Outlaw and we got ourselves a good spec !
@@needsanameedit4982The thing is though its not even complex, you don't really change anything based off rolls cause your rotation stays the same. Outlaw really isn't that complicated, it looks hard on the surface but really the difficulty of it is overblown for sure.
@@la7era1u54Disagree. Outlaw isn't fun. It's a fucking joke spec.
As a longtime rogue - Sub / sass.
I fucking cringed with the thumbnail.
Seeing those outlaw buffs reminded me of how non rogue specs exist within the rogue class.
Beyond cringe that people are playing outlaw over sass and sub.
Blizz shouldn't even be entertaining it.
And with how terrible rogues have been majority of this xpac, was the best time to leave.
Wotlk is meta, why would anyone want to play retail at this rate.
Venruki is complaining cause he's passionate, however blizzard don't give a flying fuck.
And honestly insanity to keep trying to help blizz, better to cut your losses and move onto better games / bigger moments in personal life.
Outlaw is the prime example of a spec that's so convoluted that it's impossible to play well without addons/WeakAuras. I'd really like to see a Blizzard dev play Outlaw with the base UI and explain how they expect players to manage all the stuff that's going on, and why they think that design is good.
The spec is literally supposed to be the pirate spec, why are you juggling 3 different combat buffs to fulfill that "fantasy"?
that's not a weakaura problem, that's a base UI and class design problem
Yeah i realistically don't see someone playing certain classes or specs without addons due to how poorly in game the information is represented/ displayed.
It's a 'finding a good addon or macro is now part of gameplay' problem
@@gorilla-san that's the symptom, I'm talking root cause
@@jacksonlittle5993 I dont had any issues regarding raid or m+ in the beginning of DF. I just looked up what it is the bosses do and done. You kinda dont need an addon if you not progress thru mythic in the first 3 weeks. You just have to use your eyes and your brain... I know a completely new concept :D I bet a lot of you would even use chatGPT to play for you if it is an addon all high end guild use :D
@@Wogrim yeah. When you literally cannot perform w/o addon, it's a fundamental game problem.
IMO, the game is too complicated, too much stuff: too many abilities; too many talents; too many procs, interdependencies and multipliers; too much micro cc that makes it lose its impact; too many systems all around.
Some weakauras are very nice for ppl with disabilities like me (i am 60% blind) so weakauras in middle of my screen and sounds help me alot to actually play WoW on a decent level. So if you remove addons, wa's, whatever I will at least suffer alot from that, ill admit. I hear "normal" ppl already struggle to track certain things. For example they recently removed nameplates on FAR distance in rated battlegrounds, i struggle quite hard without that now :).. But anywayz i hope you all gamers are happy anyway, greetings.
Accessibility should be a baseline part of the game and not require you to use addons. Blizzard are way behind of the curve on this compared to other companies.
No. Sorry you are disabled but you don’t understand - Blizzard owns any addon created for the game. They just have to not be lazy, and hardcode it natively. They won’t do this because it requires them accepting responsibility for any system crashes, data theft, or hacking involved as a result of a downloaded Weak Aura script (all that gibberish you faithfully copy and paste from sketch code depositories with lots of paid advertisements, yea? Yep)
My advice is for you to give FFXIV a chance past level 50, that’s when the game gets good. You will also notice all QoL “addons” are done inside the game and fully customizable UI.
Blizzard is lazy. Blizzard is bad.
This is a problem with maintenance buffs in a rotation. Addons just make it so the design is bearable. The alternative is to stare at a buff bar thats full of procs that dance around figuring out if something has fallen off or not. Blade flurry could be a toggle, slice and dice could be straight up deleted. Remove ghostly strike and just buff outlaw's base damage by 15%.
maintenance buffs are the least fun thing in the world, especially when its a separate button from your fun to press buttons. Outlaw has the double down of having an RNG maintenance buff on top of it which is just suffering.
Slice and Dice was deleted in Legion. I wasn't a fan of Outlaw rerolling buffs over and over for good rng, but Sub and Assassination felt way better I feel without it.
This speaks more to how unplayable the game is without addons.
To people who are sweaty, yes.
No, this just shows how terrible the playerbase are that they insist on playing the most complicated spec with trainingwheels instead of investing the time it takes to main a spec.
@@user-rh2gn3ek6o there is a world of difference between being "sweaty" and a grandad like yourself
@@quickschweezy you're saying Ven is terrible at the game?
@padshardbank No, he's saying that because add ons have been so integral for so long that without them, everyone cries that the specs is unplayable, when those of us who don't use add ons have been doing it for years. 'Unplayable' is a sweaty term, you guys are so scared of not min maxing that you are actively stunting the growth of the game you love. Add ons ruin this game, fact. Disagree if you want but your arguing in bad faith.
“Yup, keep honking at me man. I got a terrible roll, this sucks” 😂😂 idk that had me rolling
That was some of the most hearty laughing I've heard from Ven, so something is definitely up, and man what a quick learner, hehe.
it's concerning that you can't play outlaw without weakauras
He quite literally was during the stream...
This was NEVER a WA problem. This is a Blizzard is completely DOGSHIT at delivering information players need to see. It's actually that simple. The games gotten more complicated and Blizzard still treats the UI and how you see information and mechanics like we are still playing Vanilla. It's actually awful playing this game without WAs and addons.
The worst part about this is that instead of looking at this vid and coming to the conclusion "the game is too god damn convoluted and complicated for new people to get into", their takeaway will be "disable addons and reduce what macros can do! That'll teach them from optimizing the fun out of our game! ;)".
Addons like weakauras and macros are the symptom, but the way the game is being developed is the root cause. For example, dots used to do quite big pumper damage up until one Legion patch( can't remember which one), afterwhich they tanked dot damage down for basically all ranged rot specs like SP and Warlock, because it was apparently too easy. In the place of that damage being flatline part of those dots, they put more importance on maintaining different buffs, auras and states to maximize your damage. Windowing damage to a fluctuating damage window, if you like.
They essentially turned their game from "press x button to deal y amount of damage" to "Press x button within an aura z to deal maximum Dps". This is why the game was and still is to this date somewhat cooldown dependent. Classic has many faults in its game design, but the fact that abilities feel meaty and good to use and they are not complicated is because they are not stacked in windows of opportunity.
Probably the worst offender of this decade is the Monk spinning crane kick buff. If you didn't have a weakaura, you were playing russian roulette every single time the monk used it in arena, even outside cooldowns.
solutions like this come when there are problems. very, very few ppl go through the hassle to fix something that ain't broken (to get some 0,001% advantage).
But when the game becomes overly complicated, when everything is conditional (when you have buff W, press X for buff Y, then wait 3 seconds to activate ability Z), these solutions become mandatory...
Wow needs some 50% purging in most areas of the game (classes, systems: gear, professions, tokens, etc.) and blizz seems to go in the opposite direction with next expansions. You're gonna need a PhD in a certain class in order to play it optimized. And who's got time for that when they come home from a 9to5? God forbid you have other obligations like kids or elderly parents...
I like how WeakAura's is apparently a problem... when your spell bar UI is full of +shift and +control function macros, on individually set bars that can cycle between multiple spells, and you have tooltips turned off (not native function). My man, being taught how to correctly do the SPELL ROTATION is NOT a fucking problem!
WoW running 25 different Russian kachina nesting dolls JUST TO CALCULATE YOUR DAMAGE... IS!!!
People had fun on "outlaw" rogue when the rotation was sinister strike and slice and dice with once every 3 minute eviscerate rupture or expose armor usage during Adrenaline Rush. And we know that because people are doing it right now on classic.
Rotational complexity doesn't beget fun, and I thought Blizzard learned this lesson in Legion. There is a reason it was an island of enjoyability for so many people. And then in BFA they started backsliding by reintroducing complexity and unnecessary shit like group buffs again.
You need 12 different macros and 30 different addons just to play this game at a regular level.
they make it easier for newer people but you in no way *need* those things
regular level? How am I farming M+20 each week without a single weak aura or DBM update? Am I a magician?
@@Nightstalker314 I mean you are right people that think like him are obviously bad at the game but lets be honest here doin dungeons is not comparable to arena you can do +20 killing npc's with your monitor off
This is true all u need to do is watch a mechanics video lol and boom all mythic plus dungeons can easily be completely I myself have 3k rating @@Sergyjias
@@Nightstalker314 yeah you play the game without a single add on or macro? Congratulations man. This joke wasn't for you
half of this stuff is kinda egregious but tbh half of it is also stuff that absolutely should be in the base UI that I can't really fault people for wanting (seeing how long you have left on subterfuge, being aware of what roll the bones even gave you without trying to decipher a mess of a million buff icons etc.)
The problem isn't just with addons; the issue lies in the fact that in order to play the game "correctly," you need to study every possible combination of buffs and how everything works together. It's like having a second job. When an addon can automate that process, people will naturally opt for it because they simply want to enjoy playing the game rather than dedicating extensive time to deciphering every modification the developers implement between patches.
Afaik the buffs don't really change your rotation or anything so no you don't need to study every possible combination of buffs. Outlaw is pretty simple to play ngl, any spec requires some amount of learning, Outlaw's rotation is very simple so spending a few minutes to look up what your buffs do isn't outrageous imo
then dont play the spec if you dont want to play the "hardest" rogue spec. There is no reason to allow borderline cheating because you guys are too bad at the game and need the weakaura.
@@toxicginger6916 I have the original WA of this for m+ and I can tell u that this spec is almost not playable on an acceptable level with the buff priority in different scenarios. Also the buffs do change your rotation around quite a bit. Speaking from a PVE not PVP standpoint here :)
@@quickschweezy Or just use this weakaura. If you are actually the better player you should stomp somebody using this.
yea the game isn't designed for casual players, it's being designed for the top 0.1% of players.
Ven going to stroke out when he finds out what Hekili does.
Don’t gatekeep the weak aura
People hoard their WA lists like Smaug and his treasure
he has too for his content or he wont get the views lol
this is literally the most popular rogue weakaura that exists, look it up bro
@@quintit I hate playing wow bc players all act like you should already know everything. anytime I have a question people act like “how do you not know this” what a douche. I’ve been playing for like 2 years and there’s a lot of shit to learn sorry
@@alextyler5631 this has nothing to do with wow, you're just a moron who begs for answers to questions that are obviously suited for google. There is a reason "let me google that for you" is a real website
you were laughing like a Joker in this video :D
This is a game issue not an addon issue. If you need to stare at the buffs bar for more than a second to figure out whether you have the right buff up it's a broken interface. Blizzard should implement a better interface. But to be honest I will still make my own since I will do a better job.
The weakaura is not the problem, buff clarity in the base game needs to be way better, it's barely changed in 20 years.
It would be great if they made every relevant trigger/proc appear similarly to things like fingers of frost on a mage, a clean visual element on your screen that can optionally be turned off.
You can just put between the eyes where dispatch is on your stealth bar, don't really need a macro for that
Damn. I thought having an add-on tell me when I'm in range of my target to sniper shot with an audio reminder and a visual cue was cheating😅.
He scoffs at the weak auras. Not realizing it is managing the infinite number of buffs to manage in the top right corner of the default UI.
seriously, hes going to far with complaining about things in the game. And this one is way too far, combat rogue has way too many buffs to track and then reroll and watching cc/debuffs and trinkets. the game is bascialy a bad verison of BOP IT. The Ui is so bad and blizzard has barely started to implement there own UI.
@@fartsonuBut that's kind of the point he's making. The class shouldn't require a WA to manage all those buffs. The game shouldn't require WAs to play and keep track of pertinent info. As other people have pointed out a lot of gaming companies just have that info as part of their default UI. This season's prot pally 4pc is a good example. One of your consecrates is empowered. Can you easily tell which one without a WA? Nope.
way to miss the point of the video
playing OL without roll/proc wa is like you trying to swim in pool full of sharks with weights on you ankles and its old as the spell is, its just personal tweaks how you want it to show stuff , mine glow green/orange/red depends on roll alert sounds on 3 sec left on all buff/proc timers ....
Why is this such a revelation? This has been in the game for years?
i agree addons and also some macros have gone too far, but the way many classes play, that the resto shaman alone has like 12-14 different CDs to track or the amount of CDs and different buffs even combat rogue has and needs to keep active, of course most people need addons for that, its too just much, yes removing addons is definetly a good thing, but theres no point in removing addons yet keep the classes having 10 different cds and buffs and especially healers in general have too many buttons.
ngl i made a stance macro to only use BTE in stealth but after just one hour i remembered that bliz already has a fix for abilities that you only want to use in stealth and its called a stealth bar....outlaw is ridiculous but idk that macro is revolutionary or anything im surprised so many people are blown away by stuff like that. also ghostly strike isnt on gcd so is it really mind blowing to have it macro'd into something when you're doing your burst? I dont use any WA on my rogue so i cant speak on that but the macros to me dont seem outlandish vs the stuff we used in cata or mop
”Blade fury”
i am still dreaming of WoW server where addons will be forbidden, where you can literally show you true skill without mathematicall addons that runs for you and make ur game easier
I dont think I could enjoy the game without a damage meter to see how I and others are doing. but I do think Addons like weak aura's have taken things way too far.
tbf ... this has been available for years at this point.
what weak aura is it?
@@NubRusty guess? Called roll the bones weak aura😂
@@kind2rethink oh rofl 🤣. I didn't know it had such an obvious name. I'll have to look it up when I get off of work
Love how he says “these weak auras and macros are insane” they seem basic tbh, not that complex to make and not that much of a game changer. Sorry for having a reminder on snd without staring at my buff bar all game, or not counting all my roll the bone buffs and debating on rerolling.
Also he showed this off on a fresh 70 with shuff mmr being fucked, one of his opponents wasn’t even 600 rating XD. Also 1800 is the new 1400 in shuffle bc of mmr being so skewed. Also only going 4-2 not even 6-0
The between the eyes macro is a fancy [stance] macro, the most basic possible
@@Ven_de_Thiel exactly
You guys are all hardstuck and salty
@@DH-ht9pl we are salty? You’re calling for blizz to ban something legal since 2004. Hell before that even. Did you ever wonder where dota came from? Warcraft 3 mods. Saying this thing is cheating when it’s been a thing for 2 decades now bc you’re salty for being hard stuck 600 and don’t want to install gladius XD.
alright i turned evil, hook me up with the wa
i dont know whats happening guess that says it all
Ye, UI has problems, not showing you IMPORTANT buffs at all visually visible when you are in the middle of the game (and maybe full of adrenaline unable to see small buff indicators), so it not like WA is too good, but the indications ingame are really bad. (or to say what you can set up are lacking).
I've been playing WoW since mid TBC in 2008 and it still baffles me that people think stuff like this is new. Does nobody remember the original addon called "Power Auras" that Weak Auras was made from? This stuff has been in the game almost the entire time it's been out.
Ohh and then Venruki will learn about GSE.. xD
Half of this maintenance and buff stuff needs to be passive like how DH is
I don't even care what this video is about, I'm just glad it isn't Plunderstorm
Is there one for mage or priest?
my rogue is the least toon i've spent time on this expansion just because of that... i've used a pretty basic build while leveling, no stealth dancing cuz it felt clunky, but going into m+ and see damage done less than tank i was thinking how on earth?? what am i doing wrong...the dps is just crappy without that aura/macro...sad.🤐
Outlaw used to be moderately diff spec, now its just faceroll with entry level of.. eh dont want to get banned
Literally basing a class around having all the rng buffs is the issue. If we want to limit addons make the UI better or quit making classes with all these rbg buffs. bring back combat rogue
I only use one addon dominos and thats it
Can someone share the conditional macros and the WA links
I never heard of them.
BtE
Ghostly Strike
Sinister Strike
Can anyone explain what am I seeing? ^^" I've never played rogue so I've no idea what's going on. Why is Ven so hyped about what he's seeing?
Where can I get this? :O
brother stance macros have been in the game for 20 years haha...
Not gunna lie after playing rogue for 15 years and hearing you call it blade fury not blade flurry triggered me 😂😂
u mean blade fairy?
If only Blizzard knew how their specs played so they could implement a built-in system for new players and people who would like to play more than 1 character. 😂
You need to track so much as outlaw
i mean its just a pve WA which helps u to get ur rotation and dmg straight.
I removed all the extra stuff a while back. Its a lot more fun. Especially dueling and battlegrounds.. even pve, i havent had dbm in years. Im also ok with chilling in the rat leagues of arena and not mythic raiding. The game is fun at its base state. And in fact you scratch that itch to compete at a higher octave
Honestly you don’t need any addons to play the game, I even tested this out for myself and deleted my addons for a month and still haven’t re downloaded. It actually made me pay attention more to my cool downs and figure out how to cowntown in my head.
What I think needs to be updated and you can debate with me on this, but I think the spell animations need to be flashier so you know when people use burst cool downs and other things. I know to RoS my self or my target when a mage combust, cause visually I can see it. But I never can tell when a DH use cds cause all their spells look the same. You make that change, and I bet you don’t need addons
whats the weak aura pack and macro's he uses in this video?
thats what the hell im trying to figure out.
people not getting that outlaw specifically is outrageous, try playing one yourself.
whoever designed outlaw is some special kind of special.
Eh I don’t need that addon to play outlaw rogue efficiently and I parse like 95-99’s…. I can see how they can help people who are new to playing outlaw they are good weak auras I like them .
anyone got a link to these weakauras? just bought a level 70 enhanced boost for an outlaw rogue need the hook up
LEARN it.
@@olsonbrandon91 "PvP needs WA because rogue rotation needs it to play optimally" also someone in the comments, "just learn it"
use google lol are u actually this helpless? Also, realistically you only need an aura bar to track ur buffs since sometimes the weakaura has u play slightly suboptimally
So got a link for this week aura then
I feel like needing these weak auras or feeling like you need them just means the game is too complicated and would have more people playing if it was easier and you didn't need a bunch of add-ons
Any links to the WA package?
yes the deluxe package please.
checking for package too
probably a paid WA
Bro i've had these addons on my alt outlaw for like 2 months now and i barely play the game. You can get all these addons separately and in game within 5 minutes of google.
@@macarebeit's not paid, it's freely available on the weak aura website wago
i remember finding out that there are add ons that will give you audio queues if youre going to be polymorphed. Even if the mage is not on the screen. LOL delete add ons from combat they are playing the game better than the players are and are a plague to the game.
Does anyone have that Shadow Dance / Subterfuge on Nameplate aura? So clean
they got out of hand years ago oO
WA is needed because there is just to many buffs to track and times to track while trying to fight and stay alive all at same time with the default UI it's terrible.
I have been playing without any PVP-weakauras for a long time and since i got a diminishing-returns weakaura my winrate has increased a lot (obviously).
But degenerate shit like this really makes me wonder if and where devs should draw the line in terms of disabling weakauras in PVP.
I mean i would 100% prefer if ingame information would tell me vital information without needing weakauras. I like how we have gotten the basic-ui overhaul in dragonflight, but sadly they did not really update it as much as they announced.
That macro to not use bte isnt great bc theres times when you can use it out of crack shot window bc vanish and shadow dance wont be up before the cd of bte resets
This is the best example for: How to destroy skill sceiling and gameplay fun by just putting in Addons and the way macros can be used. Might be fun at first but ruining everyones experience longterm. This gets me less excited to Play again than the War Within Cinematic Trailer. I feel so sad about WoW 😢
Wow! Seems that Blizzard don't have bad class/spec design, they have ui problems😂😂
That wa isnt even as bad as other things, iv seen people who have addons that are literally a rotation helper, it tells you what to push, you push it, and top dam. It shows u the icon and tells you the keybind and then u just push that keybind and ez. I feel like that's cheating at that point. There's nothing you need to know or keep track of at that point.
boy I sure do wish wow was less of an automation arms race and more of a player skill arms race
welcome to M+
this weakaura have existed since bfa and people are now finding it ? like srs... used to use it for some awhile till i knew when to actually roll and when not to
For real, this is so incredibly old
Can you tell the name of the weakaura ? want to get used to rogue but its pretty hard
@@Guitarneerd just roll the bones... lol by Muropaketti
Yeah players like Maldiva use this shit. 99% addons are cheating
I use WA to track my CDs. Nothing more. I don’t need my UI full of crap I don’t need
That´s a basic PvE weakaura! xD
There are others that literally tell you what to press next! They are 90% accurate too. Won´t give you a 99 parse but makes you pretty good instantly, even on your first day playing a spec! 😆
Anyone know where I can get this WA?
it's not a secret, even though my comments keep getting deleted :D it's not a weak aura that's ground breaking
@@shaun2312 Sure, but do you know where I can get this WA?
@@J.ArnoldI linked it a few times but the comment keeps being deleted, it's on the wago website
@@J.Arnold You ever find out?
@@plebcake Nope, I spent a good amount of time looking for it too. :/
Will rogue have 27 combo points next expension? Wtf is going on here lol
I hope not lol you unlock two additional points through the talent trees
no only 15
delete rogues and DH's from PVP and the game would actually be kinda fun
Yes actually
Game design is out of control. Devs not caring enough is out of control :(
People need to get good, best rogue in the world uses no addons idk what could be more motivational. Weakauras out of control!
I don't really care. I am personally of the very unpopular opinion that they should implement rotation botting/automation/assistance(or cut back on the complexity of rotations), whatever you want to call it, as a baseline in WoW. With the caveat that "manual" playing yields better results when executed perfectly(dunno maybe tune it to 75%/80% of max. possible damage/healing by limiting automated chars with a longer GCD/simple % damage nerf or something). Then massively cut back on information UI addons are able to access. Wholla, done. Top puritan players should be happy( because it would not effect them at all), boons who would use bots or weakauras like this, should be happy. Bot sellers and creators of these kind of weakauras should be less happy.
I've been making macros like that for years.
I's so easy to find a random little conditional to completely remove the possibility for mistakes.
Then the secret sauce.....
Once you have macros that *cant make mistakes*.. you just use turbo keys and your whole rotation becomes automated.
And this isn't even remotely uncommon in higher tiers.
Almost everyone does this.
I feel like this video is just venruki needing something to make a video about. Theres no real issue here. A wa telling you that slice and dice fell off or you have bad buffs and should reroll isnt op. Anyone who plays outlaw already knows if their buffs are bad or not, they dont need a wa to tell them that with huge text in the middle of the screen that can block important castbars on nameplates so you miss them. In the past you just knew from reading a guide that for instance you rerolled any buff except broadsides or skull and crossbones and kept any 2 buffs you got, it seemed to change with different patches what buffs to keep but just go read or join the rogue discord. Huge text saying AWESOME when you get 5 buffs wont increase your dps or otherwise make you play better. The wa telling you to use blade flurry isnt crazy either. It gives combo points per mob hit so use it to build cps, duh. Slice and dice fell off? Well If you didnt see that you mustve missed it in the upper right corner so you should get a wa pack. Theres thousands off them on wago just go grab any. New players will have to play for a bit before they figure everything out but theyre busy doing leveling content where sitting on bte or letting slice fall off isnt gonna hurt their parse in the leveling dungeon or world quest anyway. And by the time it does matter they would have learned like we all learned from playing the game, watching streamers, talking to friends, reading the guides and discord.
I've been saying this. Only a matter of time before WA press your abilties for you.
Um...gnomesequencerenhanced kinda handles that already. And it has been available for years. For specs with easy priority rotations (Ret, HDH, MM) a macro or two made with GSE can reduce your main damage buttons to two action bar slots.
@@edwardhatfield5360 I mean I already figured. It’s why I quit retail. So obvious when people cheat. Especially after supatease first recorded that Ele sham from s1.
@@drutrotter3860 the Ele shaman issue was a real cheat, as it is a bot script that plays your character for you, unless your talking about the conditional macro that only uses instant cast lava bursts. Conditional macros have existed about as long as wow. And yeah, conditional macro commands work with GSE, so you can have a macro that cannot inturupt your own casting, or only cast abilities in or out of steath or only in or out of combat ect. Lots of brain power can be made free to worry about character positioning, defensives, and utility, when doing nearly optimal burst damage is 5 buttons instead of 15.
Video title should be "PvP players find stuff pvers use since ages", roll of the bones WA was a thing when a spell released. Just got red color for bad rolls yellow for avg and green for good. Also not WA issue game design issue. Your mechanic like this needs a better visual ingame, then we dont use WA for it. WA become huge cause combat design has major flaws and buffdebuff bloat.
guys im the rank 1 monk that doesn't have weakaura installed
i mean let's be real.. that's one of the most basic weakauras on wago and has been on there for as long as RtB exists. the only problem it shows is that blizz's way of tracking cds is fucking dogshit.
Link for this WA?
dont know never used that addon
can we get that macro too?
The issue is bloat.
nice to see some WoW instead of pirate pubg.
So where’s the weak aura…
Awesome!!!
Somthing I don't think some people get is for people like me, to play high-level pve I do need weak auras for stuff, I don't get to play all day everyday so unlike alot of content creators who play all day every day. But this feels very much like a pve vs pvp thing.
Gotta love default UI that is so bad you need custom software screaming that your random ability just sucks balls and you should recast it😂
I'm so glad Plunderstorm doesn't have the options for addons.
Good thinking on Blizzards end!
Problem with wow is addons to optimize game play and calculate everything, then it makes players feel inferior cause everything is calculated. Remove all addons just like ffxv, enjoy the game play not the numbers. Roll the bones buff last 30 sec and could potentially be refresh as needed and dps loss is not even that crazy, but everything is optimized and calculated, all about numbers, removes what the game is trying to archieve, why have a talent trees lol.
Can someone post this conditional macro for educational purposes?