What went wrong with Dragonflight PvP?
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Hi, can we still get a gameplay review ?
I play wotlk classic and I can't help but think 400 rating sounds like absolutely nothing. Is retail wow ratings shrunk by a magnitude or something?
You complain about pvp yet you sell boost. YOU are the problem too!
I miss gear upgrades. For me personally I quit after 2-3 months due to the lack of progression. I miss the days where you could push higher rating and get rewarded by upgrading your gear. I used to help a few PvE bro's in PvP, teaching them the mindset and the flow of battle, my higher PvP ilvl would help keep me alive to assist/help them enjoy the game mode. They would get so excited each time we hit a new rating, upgrade that gear, test it out, enjoy the extra dps and survivability.
Now you basically max your conquest each week and log off to play other games. Once you are max conquest there's nothing more to do. You beat the game, wait until next season.
I feel like the removal of progression helps high ranked players to play and try out a bunch of alts. It doesn't however entice many others players to PvP, because what's the point.
Thank God skill capped is around to present this information in a professional and courteous manner. Hopefully the powers that be are listening.
Blizzard hasn't listened since legion launch I doubt they will now
The sarcasm on SkillCapped videos is phenomenal. W for whoever responsible
FR. This is the funniest and most accurate one to date.
I can't believe I survived all of Shadowlands and DragonFlight is what made me quit.
Both were/are fun for PvP and for PvE.
@@AkiRa22084 entirely subjective - I'm happy you're enjoying it, though.
@@lifescaption So is Julian then.
Subjective or not, it's more popular than Classic, according to addon downloads and it's the most popular MMO on the market.
@@AkiRa22084 my response is not mutually exclusive to either statement. It is in follow up what in text appears to be a matter-of-fact statement.
And 'fun' - is entirely subjective and non-objective. I was not commenting on population and how it compares to the rest of the MMOs on the market.
I had a ton of fun SL season 1. Then they brought in Torghast and mandatory 30 chores per day per character; that made me quit
Man, you guys really nailed this one. The section on mobility and micro CC especially hit home. You perfectly described my issues with PvP. The melee uptime on casters is insane, and trying to get a cast off through the micro CC makes you want to pull your hair out. Oh, the Warlock ported on a 20-30 second CD? No worries, the Warrior has 2 charges, 1 leap, and 1 intervene. Oh, the Warlock ported the DK grip? No worries, he has another for you as soon as you show your face.
And don't get me started on RBGs. You want to play a DoT class like Affliction or Ele? Good luck with 3 MW Monks pressing Revival every 30 SECONDS with ZERO backlash due to the Peaceweaver PvP talent. Add that to DH's that can Reverse Magic & Meld for another AoE dispel with ZERO backlash. Blizzard fixed Priests that could Mass Dispel & Fade, but left all this other crap in the game.
I miss the good old days, so I'm currently leveling in WotLK for Cata RBGs.
"Oh, the Warlock ported on a 20-30 second CD? No worries, the Warrior has 2 charges, 1 leap, and 1 intervene. Oh, the Warlock ported the DK grip? No worries, he has another for you as soon as you show your face."
And the same with monks, dhs, rogues. Almost every melee can sit on you easily. I playing warlock with more than 13 years but this is the most painful, disgusting season ive ever played. You have to sweat your ass off for a single cast while getting tunneled with 150-250k instant melee hits. If this is not gonna change i think im off with wow pvp.
ditto bro actually really excited for some cata pvp
As an 1800 player, its hard to learn and keep up in general. I feel like now more than ever i run into boosters,high ranked peeps pushing alts or streamers doing challenges for content
Aw boo hoo
@@gaugamela4759he's rights. 1800 I'd weird as you mostly already reach peak games where I'd not so much room for mistake so from 1800 up its just a sweat
@@gaugamela4759 Your mode will always be dead as long you can't just log in and play well being on an even playing field.
Like playing vs high ranked players is fun..if you win you feel good..if you lose, you can learn and try to be better..whats sad is when you meet total mongoloid and you see he is bad but lose cause pvp class designs..thats sad
The more dead PvP is the worse this gets too. You're more likely to come across glads playing alts because no one else is playing lol
"But you could join a solo shuffle queue right now, and watch this entire video before getting a pop!" 😭
16 mins? yeah if im lucky its 16mins after 2k its more like 30
Not as a healer. But you could probably gain more raiting the me still 😂😂😂
If you don't play a healer occasionally, you have only yourself to blame.
@@AkiRa22084yes i made a healer to donate to the queue once in a while lol all dps should pay the toll every so often 😂
@@bigpoopies789 The more everyone plays healers occasionally the drastically shorter the queues will be. It's simple. Why are you having issues grasping this?
Have you ever tried healing in Solo Shuffle? It's fun.
Absolutely awesome video, 100% behind every single point raised
Plunderstorm has:
- fast queue times
- rewards at every renown level
- few abilities that are simple to understand
- no addons
Rated pvp has:
- extremely slow queue times (solo shuffle)
- rewards at 1800, 2100, 2400 with not much else
- very slow and inconsistent honor rewards and grind
- very many abilities, requires studying online guides on what other classes can do
- visual clutter
- addons that provide unfair advantages
- lack of info in the UI that requires using said addons
- lack of large-scale rated pvp, except RBGs, which are almost impossible to get into
They don't know how to balance the game correctly - Small changes to OP clases and weak classes. Each patch I'm always concerned what the next Flavor of the Month will be, see MASSIVE nerfs across the board and a entire Rework to Ret Paladins to one shot and instant heal to full. HUH???? Ret Rework is one exmaple of a ton.
Plunderstorm abilities are not simple.
It's so frustrating that ConsolePort addon does not work there.
Solo Shuffle queue is slow because players don't want to heal.
Addons are the best, learn to program them yourself if you have issues there.
If you find Plunderstorm abilities to be too complex idk what to tell you lol. They’re all very straightforward with easy to read animations.
@@AkiRa22084 "are not simple" horrible bait.
@@AkiRa22084 Plunderstorm abilities are not simple. please be trolling
"Mechanics passed around like a joint at a Snoop Dog concert" xD
I think the biggest issue for a lot of new players is that PvP just feels like
"Oh.. I got stunned over and over and now I'm dead."
or
"Oh.. I have to get max conquest gear but can't win rated anything so getting that is the worst experience."
lol the internet explorer analogy is so spot on!
I just went 4-2 in a solo shuffle and gained 0 pts at 1735 rating and a 56 minute queue out of my 2 hours of gameplay I can afford on a day due to work/family, i am not asking for the gladiator mount but for blizzard not take players time for granted, S1 and S2 of DF felt I was at least getting somewhere, idk what they nerfed/buffed this season but it has to change, it is just not fun, as always, loved the video.
You can get glad mount from shuffle ?
@@finkruse3819no
@@finkruse3819 no
@@Er1kzZzoN Then another reason to stay away from that as a Healer :D
cata/mop game design was the most robust and deepest skill capped renditions of pvp and should serve as the basis for all pvp development
I was hard stuck at 1500ish RSS as a healer (disc priest) . Win or lose it was a very frustrating experience so I stopped playing. I would win a couple of games and get some points then I would lose one game and lose all they rating I had earned and then some, so it was a one step forwards two steps back kind of thing. Some of the things that really got under my skin were: Too much CC and micro CC and pets ( UI is nuts with so many nameplates) , too much damage on top of dampening, gear gaps and some classes have it far easier than others (resto druids, DHs, rets, etc.) The arena format favors some classes by their very design, melee mostly. as a caster, trying to cast was a nightmare, melee was always one ability away from connecting on to me and interrupting/stunning. no matter what escape I had, melee had 2 more to get back on to me all the while they are doing their PvE rotation to my face. My own team mates would LoS me all day, and all the while getting "you suck" :/I was always playing "catch up" and eventually I had enough. And so the 1800 transmog ( which was what I was after) was out of my hands, so why should I continue to play (and pay) for something that a) I don't enjoy. b) frustrates me and c) I will never have said reward?. why should I play? If bliiz just adds more rewards to RSS that are out of my hands,, well that doesn't solve any of the points I made above, so again, what's in it for me? why should I play RSS?
Now Bgs is a whole different story, I get " omg great job heals" and all sorts of compliments ( either whispers or in BG chat) on my gameplay which makes me feel good, makes me feel useful and appreciated and my participation actually has an effect on the outcome of the game, it doesn't matter if I play my healer, a dps or my tank, there's a spot for me and a role I can fill to sway the outcome of the match. the problem is BGs are not "real pvp" for blizz, so you get nothing for doing them except for useless Honor and a pitiful amount of conquest.
So why should I play?
A battle pass reward system would help. Currently everyone wants rating. That means if you play all night and lose rating, you've wasted your time in a sense. A trading post/battle pass system would make you still feel like you're earning cool stuff.
And for people like my gf, who can't really get 1800. PVP is just no reward city. Which is a shame because she loves bgs and does seem to enjoy arena, but not when there are rewards that are forever roped off. Obviously, the best stuff should be for skill, but average players should have lots to earn in pvp... the average/median healer is at 1600 currently. You could play 500 games at that score and you still don't have your seasonal gear set.
I massively played WoW PVP during MoP and tried it again in dragonflight, I was overwhelmed and gave up
MoP pvp was so good, miss it
MoP pvp was also fucking complicated :D
@@ALPHAHXCORE PvP was always complicated, as it should be.
@@AkiRa22084 It was different complicated. Now its complicated in a dogshit way
@@originalPLUG No, you are.
One of the biggest hurdles the arena scene has faced is just how damn hard healing 3v3 arenas are. I've played WoW since 2004 and played tons of arena and even I was super intimidated by healing for the first time. That was with me (in theory 😅) knowing the basic premises and win conditions. I can't imagine being a new WoW player jumping into healing 3v3. 💀
Amazing video, I hope Blizzard is watching. One thing I want to disambiguate is the distinction between balance and homogenization. While perfect homogenization surely leads to perfect balance, you can have balance with heterogeneity (Rock-Paper-Scissor systems). I completely agree with your conclusion: it might be time to entirely separate pvp from pve as Blizzard has failed too long to try to juggle the balance of the two.
They aren't subs are up nothing gonna change
I was thinking about coming back for War Within than i saw that addon laden screen and... Nah I'm not doing that again.
I stopped playing retail just before the last phase of MOP and i have been playing classic since the vanilla launch in Covid. When i watch a retail arena stream dude i have no idea wtf is going on anymore over there everyone is moving and no one is casting like you mentioned. very interesting video from someone who doesnt play retail anymore. keep it up!
Don't worry, most people who play Arena don't know whats going on anymore.
I still play and also have no clue what's going on. I press buttons and sometimes others die, sometimes I die. GG. 👌
Git gud. It's purely a skill issue considering that Retail has more players than classic.
Loved this video. Specifically how you articulated how overwhelming cc has become which is something people have been predicting. I also like how you mentioned needing an Adderall prescription in order to even dial in enough to understand the chaotic gameplay. The problem is sitting in a 20 minute que on Adderall and foaming at the mouth
The congestion in Shuffle queue is mainly caused by healing it being a miserable experience. As more healers left the mode, the queue time for DPS went up X3/X4. Initially the DPS queue wasn't this high. But people seem to have forgotten.
I'm sick of Warris running into the enemy while the pop all their Cds and bc of the jump they are behind a pillar ....😢
It's a combination of healers not being able to keep people alive + micro cc hell. You just always feel underwater. Yet even if you're amazing and can keep your team alive, you're still relying on your team to secure a kill. It just never feels like you're clutching a win, just postponing a loss. Meanwhile a dps can hit a clutch cc and combo it into a kill with insane burst. Or more commonly, just plow dps like crazy. Still satisfying.
Cc and mobility is the main reason I don't pvp as a caster anymore, it just feels like you never get a chance to do anything
The intimacy of arena requires way too much knowledge of every class to rank up which attracts only the sweatiest players. The focus should be on BGs and Epic BGs if you want a larger audience to play PVP. Also focusing on maps where PVE players can contribute to victory like AV. Also, rewards should be obtainable for even the worst players if you want a larger audience. As long as something is more stressful than it is fun, people aren't going to play it.
I'm a casual pvp, only ever gotten 2100, but I still love arena and watch awc, etc. I can eke out rewards. Interestingly enough my gf is a grinder, so she'll actually play more games than me, but because she's often stuck at 1300-1400... she just doesn't get rewards. Ever. No matter how many games she plays.
Like the video says, that's a huge reason pvp is dead. Both of us don't think the rewards are worth it and we're both different styles of players. No matter who you are, PVP has a unique problem just for you, to make you want to quit.
Thank you for distinguishing CC from microCC!
What a fantastic and well-explained video that presents the problem and solutions clearly.
Great job SkillCapped!
Imo, addons are not even a factor the problem is just complexity and power creep. You can remove addons but the all the micro-CC and damage windows and clutteredness are still there. The classes and gameplay mechanics need to start again fresh.
And that part of the game as you said sprung from M+ design which dictates so much because of its timer. And because of its timer you need to do big pulls and have tons of burst and cleave and CC and everything. I think of M+ didn't have a timer and pulls had to be smaller and more methodical it would take so much pressure off the game and clutteredness of gameplay that seeps into every game mode.
They are changing M+ next season.
Blizzard has been playing with fire for the longest time.
The thing that they don't seem to understand is that the thing we got with wow is like a relationship (hear me out).
At the beginning, you are pretty interested. If things go badly, you usually forgive some things because you CARE, so you work out those problems and try to find a solution to them. But if problems persist and keep getting worse, at some point, you lose interest to the point that you don't care, and you leave for good, most people wont tolerate being disrespected. There are things that aren't worth your time and effort anymore because it feels like you are the ONLY ONE in the "relationship" trying to fix them and work things out. That feeling is what I see in the majority of former PVP players and supporters, we are done fighting alone a fucking war that doesn't seem to end. We are demoralized and frustrated, there is no motivation or interest of gettng better as a game. Devs attittud is beyond unacceptable and we are finally noticing this. Fire burns and it hurts. Fire bad. We are tired of the heat. We are tired of being ignored. The difference now is most people dont care anymore and wont be back to the game. Devs finally made it and burned their playerbase to the point of no return. Everything has a limit. We got there.
This
Venruki sent me. Great video. Very much on point. (I've quit wow ages ago over these exact issues, but keep coming back to wow content on youtube every now and then hoping that they'll fix them.)
Talking about new player introduction to PVP. You really need to consider BGs even though this is about arena. Objective PVP is less intimidating for new players. Especially healers.
New player here (New to retail, years of playing Vanilla on pservs)
These game is not FUN for me cause i got hit by a WALL with a BUS on top of it !
I don't want to have to learn 180 abilities effects and addons from 30 specs and then learn how to be aware of'em all with 12 addons ! Only to be able to play without getting facerolled in 8 seconds...
Blizzard CORE Philosophy used to be "easy to learn" (have fun after a few minutes/hours because 9 classes have each ONE pvp spec and 2 or 3 major abilities to understand and absolutely no addon needed cause everything is visually understandable) with an almost linear curve of learning and progression...
Nowadays before even being able to play at an AVERAGE CASUAL level you NEED 10 years of xp in the game or weeks to get your WOW PHD.
This is NOT New player friendly.
As players I think we can try to lift each other up. Be kind and forgiving of the guy who makes a mistake, encouraging of the person who does something well. Answer questions, give advice, sign up to play with the 0 CR person in LFG. Every player who gets turned away by toxicity makes the problem worse.
Very good video! Good points of view! I agree with everything you guys underlined here!
It seems like 80% of players in the LFG system are "Glad XP 2.4 alt LF same XP"
in lfg u have almost only elite/glad rank 1 player, no one ask for duelist or rival 2,, or u ofc have conquest grind group or "just fun" or "chill" that disbands after 10 games max
I get declined for these groups as 2300xp feels bad honestly.
@@kossero u need to grind in shuffle/2s elite then u go for 3s it helps a lot 1) for skill 2) for achi for inv , this season 2s is also good to push. istant que and good mmr, 3s eu lfg is absolutely discontinutive (pple leave after 1 los)and elitist
@@kossero getting 2.4xp in 3s witotuh 2.4xp before in 2s or shuffle is even harder for my opinion just wrong path.
My perspective is of someone who mainly raids for CE on every tier, does as many m+ as I need to gear up for raid progression (and then push enough score to easily join weekly runs for vault) and after that I pvp up to duelist just for the transmogs(I like to fill every armor set in my collections which means both elite and glad sets). Up until DF, the whole thing was pretty easy. Spend a 4 hours session at the start of each season to get to 1800+ and then week by week get to 2100. All that changed with the last season of Shadowlands though. Never have I seen SO MANY glad players in lower brackets. Meeting 2-3 glad players every 10 games when you are at 2k is ok, that's how you get better after all. But in late SL and DF after that, the moment you hit 1650-1700, you were seeing glad players in 8 out of 10 games. It was insane, I could barely get to 1900. On season 2 of DF I tried SS, did a couple of games as ret and I absolutely hated the wait times. I switched to holy, I get in, first game was at 2150 MMR and I don't even got pvp trinkets.Why the hell did the game throw me in duelist zone on my first game as holy? I didn't even have pvp trinkets. I lose 4/6. Second game is at 2050. I stabilize and 2k MMR by my 4th game in SS as holy and that makes zero sense. The good thing is that I got to 1900 rating in like...2 hours or less. Now, on season 3, I just cba pvping (mainly because the tier set's appearance sucks no matter the colour variation and secondly because I cba dealing with glads from my first games).
So yeah, before DF, boosting really ruined pvp for most people especially in the last season of SL. Then SS came in DF and the wai times are just too much for non-healers, as a healer you get matched vs the most annoying specs that are a hell to play against so the gameplay is just not enjoyable.
Do you remember which season was the healthiest pvp season we ever had? Shadowlands season 1. Do you remember why? Because all the pvers were jumping in to get challenger/duelist/glad weapons and trinkets. Is it ethical to ask pvpers/pvers to do content they are not part of just for "mandatory" upgrades? No. Is it healthy for both game types? Major YES and that's coming from a pver. You have seen it yourselves, without "new blood" in the arena, pvp just dies completely so you NEED a the pvers to get into pvp otherwise what you are seeing now will only get worse.
Decent post but saying shadowlands S1 was the healthiest season is absolute bonkers. Probably one of the worst pvp experiences anyone could have imagined, literal 1 shot covenant abilities with zero counter play. And the PVE community complained about the ilvl rewards from pvp causing imbalances early on in the season due to boosts etc, which is why they decided to make pvp ilvl. And you should look to push rating towards end of current season, I play 2200ish and it is not full of glads so I doubt the 1800s are at this point.
@@bearcatcow Balancing is always a problem and that's why we have constant tuning. Population is not something that can be easily solved though and that's why I described SL s1 as the healthiest. If you don't have a healthy population, the problems we are facing today are bound to arise.
Back in SL s1, I remember most of my social circle jumpeed into arena, most got to 2.2k+ and the rest around 2k. They didn't complain simply because they didn't have to waste a lot of time. It was short, fun and atleast a welcome change compared to what we were doing on every new patch/expansion (m+ grind). We still had do grind m+ but atleast the monotony of that had been broken for a bit.
The only people who complained for sl s1 were either the very competitive m+ players who didn't want to waste a single minute outside of m+ or the absolute worst of pvers who couldn't get past 1500 rating. Everyone in between had a blast, especially with all these broken comps.
Yeah, some pvpers were complaining because of the one shot meta but let's be honest, first of all pvpers got every class at max lvl so they can instantly jump on the broken meta bandwagon (just like m+ players). If one spec is OP, u will always see a dramatic increase of it's representation until it gets nerfed to the ground.
Anyway, my point is pvp has a participation problem right now. The good thing is that with most people doing SS, boosting is no longer an issue as much as it was. At the same time, if blizzard doesn't incentivise pvers to pvp, then pvp's problems will only get worse.
Although I'm okay with not having to pvp to get some good items for pve, I still believe that if someone wants to reach the absolute top of his character progression, they should have to dip their toes in multiple game modes.
This was very well done, I'm just not sure they'll ever do anything about it.
dude the grandmas explorer 2007 was funny af LOL
This sums exactly why feral feels so horrible. They took away powershifting years ago because it was so broken and yet today we get DHs... With all the passive slows/snares from AoE you are spending every global shifting instead of doing damage and generating combo points. Feral lost it's identity.
Wait, define powershifting. You should lose a global for a free get out of jail card.
You are melee with crazy mobility, how dare you complain? Did you not watch this video?
If you played a feral, you'd know it's among the worst melee specs in the game. Compared to its peak in cataclysm, its been nerfed into the shadow realm
@@OurBros That is not how any of this works, every patch a different spec will be overpowered. Feral had multiple times on the top.
I don’t want to be playing 3D chess while some DH is playing tic-tac-toe. Some classes are ridiculous, I shouldn’t have to read a near phd thesis to understand my rotation, the class,should be clear and obvious with what the rotation is
Yup. Many classes have bad visuals too. Divine Shield is a good defensive because you can see the big glowy oval surrounding someone, same with Ice Block, you know not to continue attacking that target. Pain Suppresion? Pff, just some sparkles, not very obvious what it does or if you should switch targets. There is just too much visual clutter and simultaneously too little visual info to know what is going on without addons.
Fantastic video. thank you for the chuckles and I hope blizzard is watching!
Very well isolated and articulated. Good video
Ability bloat of some classes is ridiculous, before I quit this expansion I was an arcane mage and it felt like I was playing the piano in at light speed to play at a high level and the other 2 specs where dog trash in PVP at that time. Most classes should feel like demon hunter does in term of abilities. Few, but impactful buttons should be the norm for specs with some outliers not the opposite as it is now, most classes are bloated with a few notable exceptions .
Its interesting to rewatch high level games from various classes POVs from different expansions. Gameplay has turned into pve mash with an optional cc game beyond that. Once upon a time it was multifaceted - there were high points in the game
imo by far the biggest problem is the que times. to fix the endless wait for a que, change tanks in pvp to be full supports instead of pseudo dps.
can't wait for the solo/duo ranked bgs. Arena deathmatch in nature is too sweaty for my old ass now.
I love the idea of having classes be redesigned specifically inside pvp. I think it will allow balance teams to be more agile since they wont have to consider balance implications outside the specific buff or nerf.
A PvP specific trading post is an insanely good idea, and PvP talent trees. Well done, please do whatever you need to to signal boost this.
I would say that micro cc includes the third DR Poly/Fear/Cyclone. And some of the main offenders are the ccs that are off DR like infernal stun. Also, completely agree about mobility creep, and homogenization, and having every tool, like DH. It's insane, stuff needs to be pared back a long way. Also baked in mortal strikes and snares are pretty garbage.
Awesome video. I agree with almost every point.
Rly quality script and narration here, and nice animations and footage, well crafted vid imo
I am not a PVPer, but the only thing that ever got me to actual do PvP in a game was dailies with worthwhile rewards. Guild Wars 2 has PVE and PVP dailies, I did both everyday because it got me gold. If PvP in wow had 3 dailies each day like "Participate in 1 Arena Match - 800gold" "Win one arena match - 800gold" "Participate in 1 Battleground - 800gold". Meaning if I do all the PvP dailies I make like 5k gold. Sure ill do that everyday. But right now, as a PvE player, PvP feels like a ton of stress for 0 reward.
I prefer battle pass over dailies. It absolutely kills enjoyment of a game rushing home to try and log in every day. I'd much rather binge 7 matches on a day I'm feeling it, then 1 match every day for 7 days. The latter makes it feel like work. The former makes it feel like I'm rewarded for just playing.
Hopefully Blizzard notices this. As a DK main, part of the reason why I don't like the On a Pale Horse talent in the Rider Hero tree is because of how this and the mobility creep of melee in general is going to affect PvP balance going forward. I'd classes have less micro CC if it meant getting rid of precog.
well structured video
There are no rewards that incentivize us to play, and a very high and unfriendly entry barrier for new players (UI, addons ecc..)
Reward is winning. What tf u want xD
If u need drop some shit just go play pve.
lol this Peter guy must like his hour long qs
@@petersirota5124 It's a GAME that is designed to give rewards for playing moron, tf you talking about. Back when Arena was worth a shit you would get weapons at 1850, shoulders at 2200. It felt good to push rank, now there isn't shit.
@@petersirota5124 "Rewards in game aren't necessary"
Wow, this is a brilliant thought, you should goto a game developer convention with that bit of wisdom lol. Every game has been doing it wrong apparently. Let's get rid of item drops in Diablo next! It's about the experience, not the rewards!
@@B-... Comparing diablo to wow is like comparing apples and pears. You are completely off
i started playing wow this month game is super fun but just to play the story you need addons like zygor or it will take you so much more time if you are new to the game and after your done with the campaign you then need 100 addons to play the pve then 1000 more for arenas... but after you find the right settings it feels realy good.
Theres no end to how they could make pvp more appealing
Too many arena maps? Nah. Playing the same 3 maps for an entire week is not fun.
I love to watch those . Sooo funny :)
Comment about evoker was original too :)
Very well said Skillcapped
Great video and spot on! Hopefully some wow dev are also watching :D
Such a great video!
I played PvP for several expansions and had a blast, but what holds me back from playing arena / rbg nowadays?
Its not MMR, its not class balance, button bloat or smthng like this:
Its simply: All the gladiators and boosters, which play tons and tons of characters and "smurf" with them in arena. So you eventually get to 2k+ Rating and face a multi glad player demotivates too hard.
Another thing with RBG: Its really hard to take a step into it. Same thing with boosters here. RBG is dominated by a small amount of players, which play on several alts just to boost alts / buyers all the way up. Eventually you get to near 2k, and the circle repeats.
Smurfing in pvp should result in account suspensions. Boosting should be banned. Games a joke until that happens.
Thanks for featuring me in a video @skill capped wow pvp guides!
The magegød
@@BadJuicyplayed some rbgs with him
@@Mxgtumgoten did u ?
@@AlunethMaster i m mxxmmllm on your fl and you added me after we some good rbgs xD
Improve balance. It’s a roleplaying game too and any specific spec you love and pick to stay with should be fair game at any point.
Discount for healer's therapy... So true 13:49
Every aspect of PvP is in shambles.
Class tuning is too little too late despite feedback.
MMR needs further tuning.
No new BGs for 6yrs.
Regular BGs and Epics are over run by Premade Communities.
Every Epic BG is untuned as seasons progress leading to soloing bosses and 3 min zerge wins.
The low level PvP brackets are overrun by scaled down level 70s with template stats that are wayy too strong, Twinks, and Premades.
Sharding in Warmode needs adjustment. New content zones need 30% more players and Legacy Zones impacted by Chromie time need Sharding removed all together since you only see like hostile 3 players from lvl 1-70 and they’re not your lvl.
Literally every area of PVP play is lacking the most basic of maintenance needs. They’ve thrown us in the trash, and with Hero Talents coming PvP is gonna be a 💩 show in TWW..
Brilliant video. I've played and pvpd since Vanilla. The state of current PVP saddens me. Nail on head with micro C C and class identity is so blurred now
I think one of the best ways to get more people to heal is to make more offence oriented PvP specs like Fistweaver. I remember the switch in League where supports used to be complete useless pieces of paper that would get 1 shot. Now supports literally carry games on a regualr basis with insane damage. Guess what, that makes playing support a lot more fun
Worked for tanks in pvp. Once they gave them huge damage seemed like more people wanted to play them.
Just make the game more simple , less abilities , less cleave more focus on setups over pure dmg/healing throughput
preach!
also more accessible
agreed
Just like the government. A trend towards bloat and dysfunction seems inevitable given enough time.
I feel like simplifying the combat will help positioning and micro ccs aren’t too annoying if you have a simple rotation
Blizzard! Watch this...help us PVP lovers out :D
Hit it on the nail with this one. I agree with every singe point except rewards making people participate. Yes there needs to be more rewards in PvP but the biggest thing is gameplay. The gameplay needs to be fun first, and they can do that by removing 80% of the buffs/debuffs and making class identity a thing again.
a full pvp talent trees might be fix, can easily patch imbalances without affecting pve. But that might be too much work for a small company like Blizz
Perhaps we can pray Microsoft consumes a talented pvp live service game company that can takeover wow pvp. Like most Blizzard games, our only hope is a non-Blizzard studio doing it.
Great video, all points are being covered except 1 : too much immunity and stuff usable while in stun, it's one of the major thing why setup comp are trash (and also healer trinket cd down to 1m30).
Tbh even if blizzard see your video they won't do anything as like venruki said in shadow lands blizzard don't want classes and spec be/played differently from pve to pvp and as m+ is THE priority we have to deal with it.
cool suggestions maybe we'll see those updates next April 1st.
We 100% need both Dragonflight and Shadowlands(choose 1 talent among sets of 3) talent systems at the same time. Some abilities need to be mutually exclusive, which you put in the Shadowlands talent system. The rest you put in the Dragonflight talent tree. PvP talents can be distributed in a separate Shadowlands system too.
We also need descriptions of pvp numbers modifiers visible at all times so that people easily understand the difference in ability power between pve and pvp.
well done video, gratz
The video had some good points, especially about how pve spills over into pvp and how arenas can feel daunting to get into for new players with an entirely different ui and addon list than most pve players.
However, I feel the biggest issue always has been and always will be the community.
It's shocking how elitist people are at every mmr I've been in. From fresh toons to 2k-ish, you can't go 2 lobbies without seeing people bicker at each other over nothing important. Did a hunter use their trap on the healer when the other dps didn't want to burst? Someone is getting flamed. Did the healer not use all of their mobility and trinket to follow the warrior around the pillar to prevent him from dying on his own? Someone is getting flamed. Did somebody mess up a kick, giving the destro lock precog to cast freely and maybe get a kill? Somebody is getting flamed. It is even worse for healers because its all those issues compounded with the normal pug mentality that everything is somehow the healer's fault, which makes queues times astronomical because few people are willing to put up with constant abuse just to learn a role. I like the few specs I play in pvp but I'm not willing to wait 20+ minutes every lobby on average because people can't stop being pricks to healers. Instead, I just trash randoms in battlegrounds when I want a pvp fix. Otherwise I just mythic raid and do keys these days.
The truth is, PvPers killed their own content by behaving as you say. Every tier of skill has multiple players who think they’re better than they are and it’s the other pugs in the lobby holding them back. It’s hilarious but sad.
If you want a bunch of collectors to just show up as fodder for skill players just add old sets that are obtainable from games played rather than rating. Of course if the goal is to maintain that elitism of old sets no one wears then I guess the attitude continues to hold the content back.
Honestly, I wish there was a ladder where, the higher you go on the ladder, the more abilities are unlocked in your spec. That creates a learning curve in PvP. Casuals would have an easier time playing pvp with less spells while pro players can still play with all the spells as they would be at the top rating.
WoW pvp needs to be fully revamped. Add ons ruin wow pvp. There needs to be an even playing field for everyone playing. Dumb the pvp down and have it be its own sandbox.
Not only pvp but also pve. Pve has been tuned with DBM and weakauras taken into consideration, so it is basically impossible to play the game without having a bunch of addons.
I luv solo shuffle more than any wow contents. got first elite sets, no more LFG. But These days, it's hard to press the join button because of the queue time.
Blizzard can fix this? hm.. TY for nice video and contents skill capped!
I'm just happy Cata is coming out so I can pvp again
Cata pvp will never be like before, people will be hacking and botting like crazy just like they already are in previous expansions.
I agree 100%, well said skill capped
you really hit the nail on the head here...
very informative video
I personally like solo shuffle but what I don’t like is how punishing it is. I’m a heal main and would like to learn dps but playing dps is just a waiting simulator. It takes soooo long to even get a q. I got everything I wanted for the season on my main so I’m taking a break for a while until next season. I don’t even bother pushing higher than 2100 as 2400 is unattainable for most people so there’s no point.
Well said!
I don't think we need more rating based rewards and especially not limited-time rewards. That will motivate no one. It certainly won't motivate new players who already find it daunting enough as it is to reach 1800 within a given season, let alone anything higher. I would lean on the seasonal mount approach they have where any rounds played above a certain threshold (say 1400 - which I believe is basically the floor) gives you progress. You can make the first win of the day count for more. Let's be honest, most people entering solo shuffle for the first time, likely got their gear from "first win of the day" bgs until they were done. Anyone who hasn't in mostly greens - typically becomes the kill target.
Ratings are arguably the worst part of the system. I'd much prefer a battle pass system with a very small percentage of rating based rewards. If I kickass for 200 games, and you do mediocre for 2000 games, I think we should both be able to earn the rewards, just I earn them faster for skill, but with time invested you can still earn them too.
It's the only way to have a healthy player pool.
Honestly the pvp needs a different talent tree, for exemple we can get lich king or cataclysm talents for pvp and the dragonflight talents tree for pve and wold content, make pvp appealing with rewards and a new mmr system with rankings like overwatch is good too. Just an opinion.!
Wait YOU'RE Bigmoran?! Can you reupload 'xaryu loses 3k, self inflicts pain on ass' or w/e it's called, that was one of my favourite wow vids.. Also, great vid!
I would just like to see some MMR updates for Solo shuffle. Like why when I "win" a game by getting 3+ wins I get very little rating and if I loose just once it takes so much away. Like I have a 70ish% win rate on my healer with over 200 rounds played and I'm only 1500. That is NOT okay.
I know there’s an MMR reason for this and esports guys and arena players all know, but this is a major problem for everyone else to understand and should be scrapped for solo shuffle if it’s really meant to be a more casual method of play.
Perhaps SS should award conquest but no rating, if you want mogs and epeen you gotta run 2s or 3s. Players can get their base equipment through here but for rating you do organized content. Would reduce the player split.
Here is another idea:
Separate into 2 types of bracket, Main and Alts.
Main Ladder : Each account can only have one character in this bracket. Your highest rating char will be automatically chosen, or you can pick a class.
How many time you played at like 1800-2000 rating and was matched up against MGlads or even pro players in their alts? On avg, ppl have 2-4 characters, which makes the ladder filled with those high rated players playing in lower mmr, especially with less and less ppl playing, only good players remain because lower player gave up. Moderate players don’t feel sense of progression doesn’t matter how much they play.
This method will make sure that people with their respective skills is at the rating they belong.
Alts Ladder is just any other character you have but won’t be as respectful as the Main Ladder.
This is a good idea, but you'd need to make it Main Class and not Main Char, otherwise you'd have glad players smurfing on alts of the same class.
This is convoluted and a bad idea. Blizzard just might adopt it.
@@DankMemes-xq2xm Yep I noticed it and that’s why I said “or class” :)
@@KaewSaBa didn't see it :P
When I first heard solo shuffle I thought it would a 1v1 type gameplay.
I used to love 2v2, but now it's so messy and I don't feel like the uniqueness of classes is there and games isnt "clean" wich makes me demotivated. I hit 2100 with my Rdruid, get my wpn enchant and then I'm done with it.
Pvp used to be a game of chess but now most classes just need to pve to win.
I am a beginner pvp healer (I did a lot of m+ before) and n1 reason discouraging me from queuing solo shuffle (or any other rated pvp) is just the huge ton of information I need to learn to even begib to be competitive. It took me few months to master my spec (I am a holy priest) and now what, I have to master 30 + other specs? I decided to play 60 lvl version of each spec to get an overall feeling, but even that would take a lot of time and effort to do.
And on top of that you need to keep up to date on them. As someone who has a max level of all classes, I have no idea what any of them do merely because I took a break since 10.0. It all changes so damn fast. Used to be if you saw a priest, you kinda knew what it did, but with the new talent trees and new builds, every new large patch has a bunch of classes radically change.
Great video
Started playing in S2 of dragonflight since MoP. Barely attempt any rated PvP because of the Q times. Shame
@Skill Capped WoW PvP Guides As a Game Designer, there are a few things I'd like to correct on this video.
Before I go that direction, I'd also like to point out the good things of this video. The example you gave with CDEW's UI clutter and over reliance of addons is spot on. To attract any form of gameplay, 'pvp' should have a distinct, simplistic foundation that allows players to not be gated into pvp. I agree with that.
Many gamers and unfortunately many designers have a common misconception of what class balance is. Before you can even define class balance you must define what a class is. A class is an avatar of a role.
Let's define what is class balance. -- Class Balance is when a class strength and weaknesses are balanced against each other, against other classes that share the same role and when the role's strength and weaknesses are balanced against each other. When class balance is conveyed correctly, the strengths and weaknesses are illuminated in gameplay to the player. I'll add a caveat that rock, paper scissors balance in Vanilla WoW is a form of balance, but a different approach than I would take. It's not a wrong approach however, class design is complex and many layers must be taken into account before you can even adjust numerical values for the output.
Let's define what is NOT class balance -- Its not homogenization of damage output or utility ability distribution (stuns, interrupts, gap closers, mobility ect).
IDENTITY and BALANCE is not one or the other, when you balance the structural layer of classes and roles that actually provides a good start into achieving both balance and identity. True class balance actually promotes class and role identity, and competition between classes that share the same role. This point expressed in the video comes from the common misconception of class balance.
So in conclusion, class balance is a multi-layer scope you have to consider and have clear strength and weakness distinctions. ( Note: that this can be achieved without rock, paper, scissors balance ). WoW's inherit core class design from vanilla is flawed, because you have classes that can spec into a different role, which complicates balance even more. WoW's class design as is, can still achieve balance to a degree, but that involves the designers to remember what a class and role is, and make sure those are balanced and defined properly.
Great content
Summed up the whole reason why i prefer wrath/mop or even cata :)