This Subreddit is Bad for Streamers
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- YT ANDY
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edited by: / shakedrizzle
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A big problem with LSF is that it only takes like 200 people in a discord server to pump up a hate thread to the front page of a community that has over a million followers. Notice how all the big hate threads get 20+ awards and 100+ comments (most of which are completely unrelated, talking about League builds and cooking recipes) within the hour. The LSF community itself is super toxic, but it gets brigaded by even more toxic communities in order to perpetuate a targeted harassment campaign.
Wait what, I surf LSF for clips and didn't realize that there was some discord server dedicated for hate threads.
The brigading is by far the worst aspect of it. It's super easy to manipulate subreddits, so when it gets power over the genre it's based on like LSF has, it gives control to bad actors. If the mods of that subreddit were more willing to take action against brigading that would be one thing, but Reddit mods are 90% lazy idiots so the problem stays.
@@curiosityunbound5460 At this point, I'm pretty sure the mods maliciously allow it to happen. They succeeded with Reckful, almost succeeded with Allinity, and have been trying to do it to Pokimaine and Hasan. Every time a hate thread gets boosted to the front page of Reddit, other subreddits get brigaded to try and capitalize on the attention and the mods in those subreddits shut that shit down quick (like SRD), but LSF mods just continue to let it happen.
@@LitchiBoba I know Hasan's gotten in contact with the mod team before, I wonder if there is anyway to track whose active and what role they play. If there is anything shady going on, which is a pretty easy sell, it's probably just some key few with the right modding privileges.
@@curiosityunbound5460 Hasan notice a mod have connections with Destiny’s reddit, who pretty blatantly dislikes him for anyone living under a bridge
There were a few times an anti-Hasan thread that’s political gets left alone until it gets taken down like an hour later via the Kyle Rittenhouse discourse yet it had 200 comments and alot of awards and 30 minutes only passed by
Hasan changing his name to “Ted Cruz likes porn on 9/11” got taken down within a few minutes ofc because it’s political. But it’s strange
There is also the clickbait rule that LSF recently implemented but stated refusing to take down the clip during the cracker discourse. The clip of Hasan asking myth what he thinks was made it seems like he was secretly recording him since it was clipped short. The mods realized this but basically said “the clip is old therefore we won’t be removing it”
I completely agree, it’s crazy how much weight people put into LSF. Even the Twitch audience as a whole is so small, and LSF is a subsection of that small community. And for the most part LSF is a very toxic place where it’s normalised to talk shit on people’s great accomplishments. If twitch had an inbuilt site that dealt with clips and vods better I’d NEVER use LSF again
Let me get this straight: You comment something that is unrelated to the fact that I have two HEAVENLY HANDSOME girlfriends? Considering that I am the unprettiest CZcamsr ever, having two handsome girlfriends is really incredible. Yet you did not mention that at all. I am quite disappointed, dear ca
@@AxxLAfriku I can't believe they didn't mention this, I apologise on their behalf, dear Axxl
Caanths out here making his own lsf with Stanz comunity posts
Paymoneywubby solved the issue already but nobody in the twitch-sphere pays attention to him or hates him for no reason.
Aww rich egotistical streamers have to deal with a public audience? Surely not?!
The problem isn't that the whole subreddit dislikes specific things, it's that a few extremists dislike specific things, post it there and the subreddit just follows like good little sheep
Yes i agree
Jacksfilms has been saying it since 2014: Drama is more popular than content
True
I think Toast makes a great point. It’s just the loudest minority that will express their opinions. Even me posting this comment may be in the minority of how most people interact. Most people just watch and may not comment or post, kinda like reviewing a restaurant. I guess twitch is unique because of how parasocial viewers are and negative LSF commenters can be
What's LSF?
Yes, the loudest minority express their opinions more often like a restaurant reviewer, they will only complain if they are not satisfied or have a problem rather than the ones who enjoy or get along with it.
@@popcream2082 live stream fails lol
@@popcream2082 it's a good thing you don't know that hell hole
Toast has always said streamers should be treated as a healthy from of entertainment and that's it, LSF is totally against his principles, where they unnecessary get personal with clips and tweets.
Your journalism degree really helps to bring up this channel. You stand out by taking a side but explaining really well why you take your side and never discredit other people. You encourage discourse and it’s really nice to feel an open community like this
I feel like he’s really using this channel as his journalist channel. He’s just telling stores you’d find in an article
idk if it's the degree lol
i like this channel because it feels like we can talk, have a conversation and explore random questions that only a unmedicated ludwig could come up with
Why so parasocial
@@andychua2766 Ghosts socializing?
@@andychua2766 I don’t think by “we”, he means him and Ludwig. I think he means general commenters. Kinda like a subreddit but on his CZcams videos / topics he comes up with. Not really parasocial. Just another social media outlet.
@@logank Aye this man gets it. my name is also Logan
He is not your friend but i agree
Lsf is a crab bucket of hate watchers, it takes a certain amount of masochism to be a big streamer and read comments about yourself there.
there are always 2 type of audiences in any fan base , SIMPS AND HATEWATCHERS . SIMPS will believe what every streamer say because they are gullible "they trust every advice by top streamers and buy all their merch ". The hatewatchers they see all the bullshit / hypocrite of these streamers and expose them . Clearly LUDWIG video proves how manipulative he is by changing the narrative and blaming lsf. Don't trust streamers at all , that are just bunch of lying salesmen who try to make quick buck off gullible fans.
Ludwig single-handedly makes me so aware to streamer problems when I have never streamed in my life
Honestly this is the type of content that I personal enjoy from Ludwig. I mean don't get me wrong his main channel is dope but its also just mostly wacky video Ideas (Bro vs Pro, Amazon Shopping Videos, Try not to Laugh, ect) which isn't a bad thing at all, Mr. Beast made his empire based on that making that type of content and I think is the future of CZcams as CZcamsrs start becoming in a way there own TV Channels, but my personal preference of content has always been stuff like this.
czcams.com/video/LHYhvIuOivI/video.html
I know it’s a meme about how ”we’re not friends with ludwig” but he truly is that kinda guy you’d love to grab a beer and just shoot the shit with for a couple of hours
@@bajenbilly some people who are just super business savvy and have a lot of insight into the space like lud or disguised toast would be really interesting to talk to.
that's why imo the most interesting content he takes part in is The Yard pod. There it's just a group of friends that shoot the shit about random stuff and funny stories. Also, the Miles ep might be single handledly the most I laughed in a podcast ep ever
"Most people are human" ok Lizardwig go talk to Zuckerberg
Theres a reason paymoneywubby has an 'LSF Banner' when he's talking about things that might be clipped. According to the new rules, LSF clips can't contain anything about LSF, so he's able to avoid being on there. Good workaround.
Who the fuck is that
@@araz196 Who the fuck are you
@@erdling3132 Who the fuck am I
@@Deadpool1804 Who the fuck are we
@@Chloelol fuck the we who are
Shoutout to Shake for syncing the audio and video for the conversation with Toast. The delay on stream was pretty bad but now it looks flawless. Big ups to him.
I feel sorry for Qt, I can't talk for her but from what I hear, she is having a hard time with the award show. I hope she is doing alright and tries not to take those negative comments to heart.
Well finally some one who just straight up explained LSF and just showed us how insignificant LSF ,big up Ludwig
connoreatspants been saying this for years now
When I go to channels like Charlie, Jack's etc bots are usually about edgelords who makes fun of dead people, meanwhile it's ph0rnn over here. I feel like they're targeting this channel to sht on because he now works on this platform.
@@helloworld2784 nah, this is happening all over CZcams
Paymoneywubby literally has a live tracker showing top LSF posts so he can’t be put on the subreddit.
@@helloworld2784 id rather have porn or stupid promotion of channels than dead people bots. The dead people bots always make me lose my faith in humanity everytime I see it. And I get so frustrated when people reply to those bots angrily because I know it just fuels them to continue.
"Even smaller streamers are in here" mouses directly over Atrioc 😂but seriously this video and the content you've been putting out on this channel has been really interesting and I think a lot of people have been enjoying the conversations started from these thoughts.
Atrioc is the CEO, COO, & the CTO of Nvidia, plus he has a 16" hog & every world record ever
think twice before you troll kids... you never know if that guy is actually an ultra-giga chad w/ registered weapons as hands
LSF is so fucking weird because I've seen how they have slowly turned on streamers after building them up, always paired with the _wonderful_ "we made you, how dare you complain about us and call us toxic" attitude.
There's also the whole "nOt aLL oF Us aRe ToXIc" thing they love to say. And while that's probably true, there's still a bunch of different circles who all hate different streamers so the whole place is just riddled with toxicity all the fucking time. Hate watching is real and I will never understand it. Hell, a lot of them don't even watch, they just see clips and join the hate. So weird.
LSF is just a toxic environment. It could be a great subreddit if it wasn't for very abundant amount of users favoring and hating certain amount of streamers. There were so many great funny clips that didn't get popular just because those clips weren't from favorable streamers.
Honeslty, this video was very unexpected.
I think LSF is great if you just go once a week, sort by most popular, and scroll through a bunch of clips without reading any comments.
This channel is more chill, feels like having a conversation about random shit which is just great
Thank you
Take your useless positivity to main channel. Only actual conversion here
Gotta admit, once I dropped reddit as a whole (about 90% of my feed was LSF) I've been a lot more chilled out and open minded with creator beef/"drama", I've also been looking at things from a more balanced perspective instead of whatever is copy pasted on LSF comments.
same, when the pandemic hit, i've been more online than ever, i have always been a lurker but then i began to engage with more people online like on reddit and twitter more than ever, then one day i noticed how negative and cynical i have become (and also the amount of dumb shit online, geez dont get me started) , idk what prompted it, so i started to distance myself and cool off a bit (i touched grass, if u will), and now im glad i did, im doing so much better mentally, im back to being a lurker tho i still enjoy reading comments and just leave positive and encouraging ones.
I also feel so bad for QT. Women always get a disproportionate amount of hate online, but it's so frustrating to see how critical people are of her, and how quick people are to villainize her. And it's not just randos, it is often the fans of her actual friends, which makes no sense! I once watched a clip of Miz where he was clearly farming QT for drama, and the comment section was absolutely vile. They were waaaaaay too quick to hop on the "QT is an evil horrible person" train for no good reason. Its just so unfair and un-called for
What!? That’s so infuriating… I hope QT doesn’t let those comments get to her so badly she doesn’t deserve any of it （；＿；）
They both farm each other. Miz just happens to have the bigger community. He even went with her to that oogie boogie bash thing when no one else wanted to go. The only time I’ve seen him actually upset is when she brought Emi into his and Mays breakup and that was well deserved. Don’t try to make him out to be a bad guy and her the victim. It’s the type of relationship they have.
@@fram24 no one is painting miz in bad light, read it again. It’s about streamers community and comments section
@@nicholas7679 Yeah I can see where you are coming from too. But you have to remember that Qt has called out streamers at times out of boredom to try to get on lsf. You can’t be upset when you have set this image up of yourself and people are quick to feel an emotion you have trained them to feel. I don’t dislike Qt, but I just understand why people jump on the train so quick to hate. The babbsitty incident along with the Emi one and always complaining about other girls streamers showing too much. It just seems that she is always complaining about something and that can come off as annoying after a period of time.
@@fram24 it can only come off like this if you watch 30s clips out of 8 hours stream and form your opinion about streamer on that. Those dramas you mentioned are so lame to hate for. Babbsissty incident for which she apologized and owned up to is literally average stream of xqc, t1 or soda. And people still bring this up after months. Emi drama is only drama because of miz and his paracosial community. Tamest drama ever
I just want to share my appreciation for you and your content lud, especially the mogul mail videos as of recent. The genuine nature coming from all the content on this channel is super rare to see on the platform as a whole recently. It shows how down to earth you are, while still being able to banter and create content for the main channel and podcast. I discovered you through twitch jeopardy with the conner and schlatt episode, and I've been enjoying the content since. This channel; much like schlatt's weeklyslap, is super engaging and it shows that the old ludwig never left. I know that you get shit for the "new ludwig" but the content has been so strong for quite a while now. While I wasn't a huge fan of among us, pretty much every other video trope and idea has been so genius that I can't overlook how much of a mastermind the content is; in its ingenuity. Thank you for providing content for us all and being unapologetically yourself; especially on mogul mail. : )
As a Hasan frog, I know personally how much LSF dragged down his content. It was so dogshit when you just wanna chill or have a fun stream and then you get such a constant flow of negativity into your community. I’m glad he got himself banned from LSF
It’s still like that in some ways. The himbo needs to take more breaks so he doesn’t get mad all the time.
i just starter watching hasan’s stream, how did he get banned from LSF? I just heard him saying he was glad that he couldn’t be there anymore
@@najota_4492 he told chat to brigade hate posts from destiny and just LSF in general and got banned within an hour
@@trixiblue4701 ohh thanks
@@trixiblue4701 It wasn't really that. It was the fact that most of the posts about him were just controversial. They didn't want that.
This channel is honestly my favorite channel of yours. I love the freedom of topics that are talked about here. It almost feels like short, digestible podcast episodes.
I remember when HasanAbi got himself banned from LSF - the quality of the streams improved and he was noticeably more happier to stream - it was extremely toxic for both Hasan and the viewers tbh, seeing everyone shit on someone you follow effects everyone
I guess you haven’t been watching recently because Twitter just becoming the new LSF for him💀
@@dotsanthonythai7328 sadly all social media is becoming this. That's why I've deleted most of mine because people get off so much to hating on things anymore it just feels gross. At this point social media needs to be shut down for a few months so people can realize they are acting like idiots
@@FailedNoName quitting twitter reduced my anxiety attacks by like 1000% its the best thing a human can do
Affects*
I remember when LSF created Drama between Ludwig and Hasan’s convo about reimbursement for that gun stream during Shit Camp
The convo, which Hasan asked for reimbursement and Ludwig reaffirms; a normal conversation between two friends got into LSF and made into a big deal
That hate thread was insane because, in that very clip, Hasan even says that it's okay if they don't reimburse him.
Not to mention when QT went to LSF herself to reaffirm again that they mutually agree on it. Some people were trying to convince QT that this shouldn’t have been done basically because she’s poorer💀
@@dotsanthonythai7328 oof that's just how most popular subreddits are when discussing real people tbh. They usually just listen to the most upvoted comment and take it as a fact, even if it's some overspeculative sht that someone with no social life makes up.
I 100% agree that more streamers and content creators in general need more of a way to have genuine discourse. In general, people on the internet as a whole really do.
The main website that people use for discourse, networking, meeting new people / contacting businesses and/or other content creators, etc etc is Twitter. You don't just run a youtube channel wtihout a twitter, because how else are you gonna contact / get contacted by other creators? And the thing is, the nature of twitter as a website doesn't really allow for that. It's designed to post a short message, maybe with an image or something, and get a bunch of likes and retweets and feel good about yourself (even if you really shouldn't from what you said), and a lot of people that use the website often can be very toxic towards other people. LSF kinda has a similar energy to me. Drama happens, then a toxic minority talks a lot and gets attention on these websites, people get hurt or insulted and it leads to a lot of just general toxic energy that, while it sometimes cancels people that really deserve it, can also hurt a lot of people that don't - even if their career remains in tact, because words do hurt most people, even if they don't show it, and they can still give people who didn't really care about someone a negative opinion of them for something that may not even be true - and it all happens in areas that can sort of act as an echo chamber of similar opinions that get guarded by a toxic minority that loves to attack people.
Like, do you realize how many times Schlatt has been cancelled for stuff that hasn't been true? Now imagine if that happened to someone that couldn't take it.
I don't use twitter myself, and I don't want to have to because of stuff like this, but if I were to get more properly into content creation I'm almost forced to at least partially engage with these environments if I don't want to cripple my own ability to succeed. (Sure, it could work, but it's absolutely a factor.)
I really feel like content creators and such need more of a proper way to contact each other, have genuine discussions, and learn more of what their fans really think that isn't some external site designed for something else entirely.
the toast chat was really interesting, especially considering it was completely un-planned thing in the middle of the matpat reaction. And yeah, LSF I think should be just fun for the viewers, and the streamers would be better off just ignoring it. But it isn't really fun for anyone at the moment, so I dunno
"that's just me. But most people are human" Ludwig alien raptoid confirmed
toast and ludwig are such real streamers. they ofcourse give what u like as content and such but a lot of the times they give what you wouldnt like and criticize whats wrong in the community which I love to hear
Very happy to see Ludwig and Toast - two content creators I look up to, discuss topics like this. Cc's are people too, yes, wealthy, but still people, with feelings that can be hurt like anyone else's. And as someone who's aspiring to be a content creator, to me it's very welcoming (?) in a way, to hear these things from the bigger people. I have noticed how negative certain streamer fan communities are, and it's kinda terrifying to think that some day these angry forever-unsatisfied people might find their way to commenting on my projects or my friends' projects...
And like if you think of philza, for example, he got the boost from LSF. I feel like something similar happening to someone else is quite unlikely now, because of the monopoly that's happening on the subreddit. It's nice to have a 'news' subreddit too, but idk maybe it should be a separate thing, and maybe 'fans' should try to be more supportive of those whom they give their money to...
I might be misunderstanding how LSF works, as I tend to avoid it. But as I see it,,, it's indeed lost its purpose (:
Hey Lud just wanted to say that since your move to CZcams I have been watching your streams almost daily while studying. The twitch app is pretty shit on mobile so as a student who only has 1 laptop and a phone I was unable to watch your streams since I use my laptop for studying and watching streams on Twitch mobile is a no go. So I am extremely thankful to your decision to move to CZcams
One of the reasons why I enjoy content on this channel is because it's refreshing to see thought out, rational, and interesting opinions on various topics. In my opinion, the difference between this and most other CZcams content is the way that the viewer is treated, as there is a sense of honesty that comes from not necessarily trying too hard to be entertaining. This really shows and makes the videos much more interesting, as it feels like I'm listening to a well thought-out and moderate approach to a topic that considers all stakeholders and viewpoints, which refrains from demonising one side and choosing an extreme. On a final note, I think that the level of self-awareness, reflectiveness, and transparency is what this a much more interesting unique channel than any others (that I am aware of).
Almost started tearing up listening to DT talk about how LSF affects him. I guess I am also a weird one like you Ludwig in the sense that I don't let people's negative comments get to me. Since you've been getting more into the VTuber rabbit hole, something you might be aware of is the constant comparison VTubers get when you're small. For example, I can't talk about my health issues on stream without being compared to iron mouse and I even changed my avatar from pink to blue because of the constant comparison to her and Nyanners. I still talk about my health issues and I've played a good mix of my lore between my two personas because at the end of the day it's my content and I want to do what feels right, but for other VTubers and streamers I get sad seeing how much these kinds of comments hurt.
I also think toxic positivity is bad too. The amount of people who have come into my live streams saying "Mari you're so underrated you deserve more views" is just one of the few toxic positive comments I hear. From talking to other VTubers, this affects them too, especially if they are a smaller creator. I feel a little less alone knowing that even bigger streamers like you and DT deal with this same kind of treatment online as well.
If you don't mind, I would like to talk about this video in a video/livestream of my own to share with my viewers, I think spreading awareness of this issue is important, so thank you for the video.
I always say thank you to many content creators, to the editors, and people who work hard at what they do. For their major accomplishments on their channels. I may not always see their videos but, I can usually tell by the way they talk that they are a good person who loves to entertain others, to show what new is out there, and to show growth with in themselves with even the mistakes that certain creators may face if they are really sorry for that. Overall, love how they even bring light to tough subjects that should be addressed. I hope this message to Ludwig or any other person that reads this has a better day and thank you for your dedication to your hard work. Especially it can seem stressful especially if your feeling burned out. I always want a creator to take time to create much better work when they get back than, be miserable. Thanks again. Maybe one day I will get to talk to you Ludwig one day to thank you then.
I’m loving the mogul mail stuff latley keep it up man
It’s so weird that it feels like it’s the same people who take issue with the react meta and call it low effort that then turn around and complain when QT organises a super high effort award show
why does it 'feel' like that? I mean do you have an significant data to show that's even remotely so? I personally think there is valid and thought out criticism about the react meta. Even a lot of other creators see that meta as a problem. And most of the people I see (this also is only in my 'bubble' of course) arguing against react meta are especially positive towards creating own content, so why should they criticize something like QTs show? I think you're making the same mistake Ludwig spoke about, you listen to a loud minority. You're right though, there are SOME haters who don't like streamers in general or certain people in particular who will argue against anything they do, whatever it is. But saying it's the SMAE people makes it sound like the small minority who does that is ALL people that argue against the react meta. And I'm actually pretty sure that isn't the case.
I think they’re the kind of people who prefer Twitch to stay a gaming platform and don’t like the other metas
@@BoredMarcus I really don’t think complaining about the react meta is valid at all because if you don’t like seeing react streams you can just not watch them where as personally watching masterchef with 40k people and a streamer I like is one of the most fun ways I have ever consumed twitch content.
LSF really ruined a lot of what made 2013-2016 Twitch special. It’s way too militant. Plus if a streamer messed up (clicked a link they weren’t supposed to, etc) it was way easier to just delete the vod and move on, now there’s a guaranteed controversy --> streamer gets banned --> culture of everyone walking on thin ice.
I like that this channel is a place where you can share the perspective of being a streamer to us rather than the focus being on entertainment like in the other channels. There's no pressure to perform, and we get an unfiltered view from which we can base our actions in the community
that dream story being so high on the subreddit when it’s just almost entirely misinformation is so insanely frustrating
"Bu-bu-but, Dweam bad!"
- nutjobs who are just as obsessed with hating Dream as the nutjobs who are obsessed with loving dream
I always really enjoy these genuine and thoughtful conversations and well thought out opinion pieces. Even though it’s not like I could relate to dealing with LSF in a streamer’s perspective, I can deal with a similar concept of having my own kind of LSF/social media. The idea of thinking about what people think of me, but them being such a small minority in my life that is so insignificant after the moment of speaking, is wild. Really puts things into a kind of bigger picture where for this person’s negative comment, there’s thousands of positive comments out there somewhere from someone and I really don’t gotta give a shit about this person that’s dogging on me for something stupid
Wow, Ludiwg was able to come up with content idea from a single statement in his conversation with toast yesterday 😂
Ludwig might have to make another channel with just toast lol, every time these two are together they make gold
That talk you had with Toast was great, really liked listening to you both just talk about something in general.
Could you send a link to the vod of the talk? Would greatly appreciate it :)
mogul mail is the weekly slap but with uploads
For the past 4 months, I have watched every single CZcams video of QT and most of the streams. I am genuinely excited to see the awards show.
I agree with Ludwig and Toast, it's such a small minority of people on LSF who mostly share the same opinion. I wish QT understands that LSF is not diverse pool of opinions. I read the thread specific to the tweet QT made about the awards. They claim that the awards show will be a circle jerk but what happens on those threads is also a circle jerk.
After reading many comments on that thread, it seems to me that community consists of OG viewers. Just like every passing generation that shits on the new cartoons or claims that when they were kids shows were better, the members of that community want to hold on to those previous concepts of streaming (because many of were making fun of baking streams which I very much enjoy). They want to maintain that "in group" and shit on the same ideas if someone other than their streamer does it. I honestly understand where they are coming from, but it must be depressing for the new streamers to read that.
dang
Yeah I almost always disagree with the main narrative on LSF for dramas, and I’ve been watching twitch for over a year at least now. It really feels like an echo-chamber catered to certain streamers or styles
Literally every award show is called a circle jerk. That's a really bad example.
@@StreamerBS Then what would be an alternative? Should QT not attempt to do an award show?
Lol how delusional are you 'it's such a small community of people who share the same opinion' dude if you go to the lsf comment section most of the negative comments get downvoted a lot. The posts are overal positive
You say it's such a small community lsf but the negative comments are way smaller. Ludwig just made a video because Qt can't handle a very small amount of stupid lsf comments.
Honestly found this channel kinda late and i'm so happy I did. It explains so much more on the life of a top streamer and so many good tips about how streaming and social media works!
I personally use lsf to watch clips, because I can't really watch streams because I live in Europe. when a stream had many good clips in it I will watch the vod
Not gonna lie, this channel is way more chill and I really do like the fact that people actually comments with ideas and opinions! I really love your main channel, but having video with real opinion is way more interesting for me. You and Toast are totally right when you're saying that humans are humans, even if QT is receiving a lot of great message, all the bad one around it will still make any human feel like shit and I've only been watching both of you for the last year maybe a year and a half and I can say that the greatest streamer is QT in term of ideas and making people come together! She is always on top of everything and I think it's what twitch need right one. Some way to get people together, no matter which platform they are on, no matter who they are and someone like QT can really do that and it's great to see you and toast and many more streamer support her in everyway that you can! I haven't watched most of your stream since you moved to youtube mostly because I don't have time, but I like your content, keep it going and this channel is really chill and I love it!
Ps: LSF is a toxic newspaper
At the end of the day, LSF is still /the/ cultural hub for streamers. I genuinely believe the subreddit alone is like half of the reason RFLCT turned out the way it did.
I respect lud being vunerable and real on the mail channel ..... Huge respect for the balls to do so... Very cool
Dude, people try so hard to be "the one who posted about * insert negative drama here * first" that sometimes it feels like they think they're gonna get paid for it or something, lol. I'll never understand why some find so much...I don't even want to say enjoyment, because no way they get joy out of it.....but so much *SOMETHING* out of tearing people down.
I think it's the Reddit Karma. I remember a Hasan fan posted the thread of Hasan getting banned for Cracker-Gate on LSF, and as it was blowing up, he deleted the thread, causing all the Redditors to lose out on their potential karma. The next thread posted after that was stickied by the mods and people on LSF were pissed that they lost out on Reddit Karma and the LSF mods banned that Hasan fan from the subreddit.
Just human nature.
I know the video is mainly about LSF, but you touched a little bit on the Spanish speaking streamers and since I'm Spanish I wanted to say something about the community. The Spanish and Latinoamérica community has grown so much and is being able to do all this awesome content because the streamers have a sense of community, they are all in the same ship and if one grows everyone grows. I think we've always been more of a cluster than anyother language speaking community and now thanks to Ibai who makes big events that are very respected even by traditional media, Auron, Rubius, etc. Who make series of minecraft, gta or rust in which small a big streamers can interact no matter what their content is about so the community is closer than ever and because of that they have stopped looking at English speaking streamers to know what to do next and I think the community has grown to be equal or better than the English speaking community
This video a lot more relevant after QTCinderella had herself banned from LSF after the many negative and toxic comments after her Streamer Awards which to the public outside of LSF was regarded overall as insanely high production value and successful beyond many expectations and elevated the industry as a whole.
One gummy? Im gonna assume these aren't Haribo gummies.
Only time i went on LSF was to help clear up what happened with Valkyraes reflect stuff
Wow, thanks for bringing this to light ! Idk much about streaming as I’m just starting on this content game, but it’s important to hear from bigger creators this kind of red flag to look out for that we wouldn’t have otherwise been to keen on
I wonder how fast some streamers would fall off if LSF was nuked
Ludwig deciding to make deep dives of his own thoughts is his best content, he feels like your big cousin who works a weird job and has tons of stories, but he doesn’t think you’re cool enough to hang out with him and his friends
its interesting to hear about the spanish streamers having a really strong community because I've noticed that a ton in the latin american minecraft speedrunning community as well. They're all super supportive of each other and every time one of them gets a wr its like a wr for all of them
Kind of glad I'm not on reddit but at the same time feel like i have FOMO from what content creators i follow. its conflicting but a little freeing not knowing too much. Either way a great video.
If he does this consistently I feel like this channel can even match his main channel
Good point but not sure what you want to happen, there aren't many any other viable means for streamers to get "genuine" feedback from viewers. Also, you could argue that lsf was cultivated by the big streamers to be the way that it is now. It's definitely the fault of the streamers for giving it the power that it holds now.
I have so much love for this channel. Content is great, but you’re so well-spoken and articulate your ideas really well that I think encourages a similar level of response and engagement.
And he just talks through it, it sparks healthy and decent discussion. If it would be other channels, it would be a little toxic.
I personally only go to LSF to see popular clips because I don't know of another centralized place where all of the "popular" clips are discoverable. If such a place existed, I would have no reason to visit LSF at all.
Used to be an LSF mod AMA
Love these videos Lud, enjoy the sense of realism in these topics.
5:32 lmao Ludwig describing all of Reddit
I love the concept of this channel, I am subbed to the other channels for the laughs. But this one often makes me think about the other side of the coin (Content Creator vs Consumer) I certainty don’t agree 100% with all the points but I love a good conversation and thought process
Toast mentionned how the spanish streaming community is trying to improve as a group, i can vouch for the french community, they are all about that as well.
We have a lot of streamer talk shows, online events, irl events that just bound the community together and it's freaking awesome.
Zerator is probably the greatest influence in the french community creating events all year and gathering thousands of viewers irl for gaming competitions. I feel blessed to speak french and being able to enjoy this amazing content.
“When i read that shit I go schmeep, go play super auto pets eat a gummy and watch anime”
That YT atlas was sick
More and more big CZcamsrs are starting secondary channels connected to a hobby or passion. The second channel is more of the hardcore fans and smaller communities. One comes to mind is Starwarstheory has a gaming channel and the gaming channel is unflitered and hilarious. He says it's a throwback when the channel was smaller.
I don't think it's something that I ever thought too much about, but the more famous you get the more "yes men" you end up having in your close circles.
And especially if you don't have good friends or contacts that can be honest with you it can absolutely be hard on you, it almost makes all the strength and power you get from that higher status into a weakness.
I feel like with this angle I could actually empatize a little more with dream. I think this channel is probably good for you because you usually set up these videos in an "open question" kind of way, where you ofc share your opinion but you do make sure to reaffirm that it's just your opinion and you're actually interesting on listening all people and not just yes men.
I hope we can get more of this healthy and honest conversation not just from you, but from more channels, ofc without forcing anyone to forfeit their privacy (because being honest on the internet can be scary) and while trying not to get anyone lost in the parasocial sauce from all this personal stuff
Honestly, i have been wishing for awhile now that twitch would have it's own reels, tiktok, shorts for clips of their creators. It would keep people on the website longer and be better for twitches bottom line. If I had the know-how or time to invest, maybe I would make my own 3rd party site that includes CZcams streamers as well. I think it would foster more community, positivity, and people would really enjoy it. Twitch currently has no good way to share clips. It sucks. LSF capitalizes on this.
Never heard of you before your switch to yt but been loving the content since the switch solid content 👌
“Most people are human” real insightful there Lud
loved that conversation at the end with toast!
This is the right way to stand up for your Mrs and I respect you for this
would love to hear more about the spanish community and what they’re doing
15:06 Toast's response has me dying!! 🤣🤣
Someone posted a satire clip of me joking about how I hate miz and I called him mischief. And the community I got coming to my streams was rooooough. I had to keep explaining it was a joke.
Wow that dataset was incredible. Like the video was ok but that CZcams Altas thing was insane!
This man refuses to miss.
You and Toast are doing great. Listening to honest conversation is very therapeutic. Keep it up. I watch you a ton more since your move. It's been good. Thank you.
Sheesh I don’t like how victim-y Toast sounded. But I think that’s just cause I’m like Ludwig in that I can’t comprehend why these people care what people who aren’t even fans are saying.
Him saying he’d still be watching Naruto if it wasn’t for them was funny though, like lmao, “if people weren’t so mean maybe I’d still be stealing copyrighted content and retreating it” lmaooo
1 year later, LSF is mostly stream clips... from OTK members.
Every now and then some actual fail makes it to the list ... but outside of that every single day it's just the same 4 streamers.
I think when evaluating the ‘utility’ of LSF, you must consider the audience. It’s not for streamers - it’s about streamers. The content is created by and for people who consume streaming content. So, in that regard, the platform is fulfilling its utility. It’s a gossip forum, which exists for every genre of user generated content: from beauty gurus to commentators.
Now I don’t even watch live streams on Twitch. I do, however, enjoy the content some twitch streamers upload to YT. Which brings up a second audience consideration. Yeah, it’s a small pool, because realistically not many people can fervently watch live streams.
I have a full time job, a home to tend to, and relationships to cultivate. I don’t have time to watch an 8 hr livestream daily, or at the very least, frequently. I can imagine the LSF audience and it’s engaged users have a lot of free time and perhaps are obsessive, fixated. Maybe they’re younger than your overall audience, maybe they’re out of work. Whatever it is, it’s not a psychologically balanced audience.
I don’t say this to be derisive, but it doesn’t seem probable to me that the 1 million on LSF, and the smaller number who check it daily, live a balanced lifestyle. And this undoubtedly impacts the meta content.
Edit: they’re also probably really lonely. :-(
Lsf is literally just where people go to be toxic like
The amount of hate threads and fighting I see on that subreddit is crazy. I tried to follow it cause it's recommended from streamers but it was so horrible and people get mad at every little thing. A streamer could have a spec of dust on their PC and people in that sub would act like that dust killed their family or something
Honestly I rarely tune in to the top streamers at all, I only view them though Livesteam fails.
I feel LSF could be almost eliminated with a TikTok like clip viewing tab on Twitch.
I have only ever checked out LSF once or twice, just to see what the fuzz was about. Not only do i think streamers seem to value LSF's opinion too highly, I also think the community as a whole feels fairly elitist. Which is a shame, considering the concept of "live stream fails" is good and funny, but the subreddit just transformed into something that's basiclaly just pure drama and honestly judgemental people. I'm glad you get to see through it, I hope QT could be able to in the future as well. Or at least that her show will blow the haters out of the water. Godspeed.
The LSF community may be tiny, but it's extremely polarizing, you either love the post/content or you hate it. However, that also generates a sadomasochistic desire to browse it, seeing someone else get dragged into the mud is a relief mechanism and human brain overvalues negative feedback so even when a streamer gets dragged, they will still read it.
Basically think of a tabloid, flashy title, dumb as fuck articles, maybe a page for boobs. But it's addicting.
I agree with this take, but the amount of hate verses love that is actually seen is so widely outweighed. Yes, the top posts are the biggest drama/news posts. That's obviously going to be the case. Take QT for instance, for every 1 weird drama post, there 10 clips of her where the comments are nothing but positive. One of the top posts is literally just a thread to compliment Malena on Shitcon and it's filled with love and people that are so happy. People want to be excited and happy for things, very few people actively want to see people fail.
The problem is people focus on the negative, even though the negative is usually somewhat valid criticism followed by people who don't understand how to properly criticize and they turn it into hate posts. One from this week had to do with Esfand doing a subathon and they gave interesting points that even Toast himself brought up about the money aspect that I'm sure Esfand wasn't even really thinking of. Obviously there are weird examples that are usually brigaded by other groups like the Hasan stuff. But overall, people don't go there specifically to hate somebody. It just happens sometimes because a lot of people are streaming and are bound to mess up.
even on mogul mail you take a shot at big a? "even smaller streamers are in here" **moves mouse over atrioc** **looks up at the camera**
I definitely agree. There’s definitely a certain type of person who posts on LSF, which makes sense cause it’s a community. Generalising the whole twitch fanbase from LSF would be very inaccurate.
I also think the weight people/streamers put on it might be left over from before one or two years ago when the twitch community was so much smaller. People’s audiences have expanded so much from there. Sometimes I think LSF reflects the whole ‘gatekeepy’ vibe that some older twitch viewers have.
Edit: side note but I’ve really been looking forward to QT and Maya’s show along with a ton of my friends also in the twitch community!!
From what I’m hearing from Ludwig and Toasts’ conversation is that LSF is the equivalent of the popular kids in highschool: people who we believe we want to be and want their appraisal when in reality they’re a small group of people who’s opinion is equal to another’s. I think when we realize that it becomes easier to dismiss their harsh words.
Love the content, looking forward to the next discussion
Where can i find the CZcams Atlas thing it seems very interesting
The takes on the Spanish streamers and QT’s award show are spot on. It’s insane that the vocal minority will shit on actual innovative ideas, but will cream themselves when their favorite streamer streams GTA RP for the 100th day in a row
It’s that USA mentality of needing to be #1 in whatever content they consume, even though it isn’t and it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things
hey wierd question, what exactly do they mean by the part of the spanish streamers? i mean what exactly does he mean by the "a rishing tide rise all ships"? what exactly are they doing? im actually curios to know what are they doing to improve the site... since im from latino america and i dont really follow spanish content, so im very curious
@@andresjonhbalcazar i'm a little late, pero la cosa con los streamers españoles es Ludwig y Toast tiene la impresión que streamers populares como Ibai tienen ideas innovativos y albergan eventos en lugar de pelearse y difundir drama. La expresión es decir que cuando el nivel de agua sube, tambien los barcos en el superficie. Eses eventos traen más gente a la comunidad por los streamers más pequeños que hablan español y eso es todo que dicen lud y toast 👍
@@glassofwater2642 thank you
I watched you talking with Toast and these conversations that you have about streamer mentality has helped me personally more times than I can count. I'm like a 10 viewer Andy, and I so often compare myself to people who outgrew me, who upload more, just a constant comparison and a focus on negative comments. Even positive experiences turn negative, like the Day in the Life exposure now gets people saying I copy you.
I'm rambling but, just the mindset and reminders to keep in my own lane and focus on myself and my community will always be so important to me. Thanks :)
Everything u said is honestly so true. Its always the tiny minority with the loudest voices that make the biggest impact, and thats exactly was LSF is. So much toxicity and hatred spread through that subreddit. LSF got me so mad it inspired me to make a video on it since no one else did lol. Fuck that subreddit.