The DANGEROUS DURANGO (Random Stall, No-Start?)
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- Oh this is one weird and FRUSTRATING car.
Customer towed his 2012 Dodge Durango V6 from North Carolina, 10 hours away!!
He says that in the last few months the Durango has become DANGEROUS to drive.
It will STALL unpredictably at intersections, and will NOT RESTART for up to an hour!!
And it doesn't set any codes??
Parts cannon has been fired: TIPM, fuel pump, PCM...you name it!
Step 1: recreate customer complaint.
But after HOURS of driving, the Durango refuses to act up!!
How am I supposed to diagnose this thing?
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Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I owned a brand new 2004 Cadillac SRX and installed a "K&N" air filter in it. For years I kept taking it back to the dealer because it would randomly loose power during acceleration, etc. After several dealers and several appointments they had the GM master tech come out from HQ to diagnose. Turns out the oil from the air filter coated the sensors in the throttle body resulting in poor performance. Sometimes the car is just good BONE STOCK. You don't need these aftermarket components that promise 0.5% more horsepower.
Lesson learned!
Wow. They had to call the final boss to diagnose it.
@DonJackJohn - So the aftermarket K&N didn't void the warranty? Obviously, that K&N use "special" oil - silicone added,nor some of that, over time, causes all sorts of electrical gremlins?
I agree with you. As a bright-eyed young man, I used to put all the so-called fancy gizmos on my vehicles, and then as I got older and did actual research, I stuck with all oem parts. The only exception I would put to that is Gale Banks, but I've never owned a diesel before. And I know he makes items for gas engines also, but I've never had one of those models either. But I would trust the parts he makes from the research I've done.
I agree with you - K&N filters claim to be sensor safe but I cannot see how that can be because if you've ever worked in a vehicle with a K&N oiled filter you know how oily that intake tube is. It worked fine for me with my 1995 Jeep Cherokee because there is no MAF sensor, but to top it off, K&N filters are relatively unneeded and unnecessary for the majority of drivers who aren't racing! K&N high-flow are snake oil. I've cleaned neglected MAF sensors with the proper MAF cleaner and have felt the vehicles wake up performance wise, sometimes it was so bad that the transformation was day-and-night.
Had a friend that her job required very dependable transportation that had a 2012 Durango (lease) and she had this issue of stalling starting 3 weeks after she purchased. It was back to the dealer several times, and she had to get a lawyer involved in order to get Chrysler to buy the vehicle back. She got a Toyota 4 Runner and had no issues and has been leasing those since then.
Smart move on her part
Problem is Chrysler cars 🚗
Way back i bought a k&n filter for my 98’ sierra. I decided to clean it one day. After cleaning i grabbed the oil and started that process and i got to thinking, “hmm, is there enough oil on it? Is there too much? I wasn’t sure. To little oil and it won’t filter properly. Too much oil and it could gum up the maf and throttle body. I threw it away and installed a re-usable but non oiled filter and never had a problem. The only filter that should get oiled is a foam filter for a dirt bike or atv, imo.
one that has a carburetor
Removing the k&n garbage is the best advice.
Years ago, a very good tech told me to do a throttle body cleaning whenever dealing with an idle or stalling issue. That advice has served me very well over the years.
I was a little surprised that after the initial scan that you seemed to ignore the codes related to the throttle position. After your conversation with the customer and then the engine stalling when you were parking, that was the "ah ha" moment. One of the facts that I've always tried to decide with the help of the owner, is does it "stall" or "shutoff"?, the difference being throttle position. Good job on the diagnosis and repair. Great that you stuck with it.
As an aside, I've always been surprised by the fact that the OEM never saw fit to have their electronic systems monitor fuel pump signals. How hard would it be to have a code for loss of fuel pressure and loss of fuel pump current?
Nice comment!
I know, I was yelling at the screen. Problem is when you let the customer's history determine your thinking. Happens to everyone
good points
My thoughts on the first no start on a cold Christmas is the throttle blade got stuck in the bore because of the aluminum shrinking slightly 🤷🏼♂️ my only guess
I had a similar case in the shop. 2011 Chrysler Pacific T&C. Intermittent Stall but no codes. Saw the TIPM under hood and I thought well here goes another failed TIPM. It was hard to duplicate but when I finally did realized it never lost power to fuel pump. Don't remember how I got to the conclusion but replaced the TB and all was good. I just remember thinking I was close to replacing that TIPM lol.
I had a random stall in a car once. Everything was good most of the time, fuel pressure would drop to zero when it didn't. Every time I was checking it out all was good. So replaced fuel pump twice checked wiring nothing seemed to work.finally took a very close look at the fuse which checked good before. It had a hairline crack which when heated would separate and shut off the fuel pump but then would cool and turn it back on. Replaced it and all was well.
I love these videos where you go through the thought process of troubleshooting.
Been in electronic service over 40 years.
Diagnosing intermittent problems was the most challenging but also the most rewarding repairs.
Excellent diagnosis. Here's my thinking: The engine is closest to stalling when at idle, and that there is some threshold that must be crossed for a stall to occur. The relationship between the throttle position and amount of air flowing is non-linear, so a small percentage change in TP can produce a larger percentage change in air volume. The system is therefore able to cross the threshold into stalling because the TP cannot compensate properly (due to dirt in TB in this case) to prevent stall when you take your foot of gas at low rpm with some load. Also, I wonder if a non/poorly serviced oiled K&N filter might exacerbate the problem by reducing air-flow.
For any idle complaint, the first low tech solution must be a clean throttle body. The danger these times is to start "Hi Tech" and work way down to "Lo Tech" A building construction always begins at base level and so should diagnosis. Nobody had the common sense, previously to do the normal checks and balances. Congrats on a successful outcome and not excluding the basics.
Further proof that k&n is not worth it and has negative effects that you pay for when buying it. I change my air filter once to twice a year and don’t have to deal with cleaning and oiling it. The only winner with k&n is K&N.
Nice job Ivan! The scenery in this video surrounding your house is amazing.
Well said. A false economy with these k&ns
I am very surprised on how little an air filter is changed. MY mom bought a new car in 2019, and has it serviced at a local tire dealer. 3.5 years later I did a service on it and it has the original air filter in it. It was absolutely filthy. I have seen this on many other cars as well.
This reminds me of my cousins 1975 Ford Granada with the 4.1 liter in-line 6. The thing would just stall; you might be in a turn and need to quickly shift to neutral and operate the starter to maintain power steering to complete the turn. HIs wife wasn't impressed. We checked everything we could think of: fuel pressure, electronic ignition, etc. Finally my dad said to remove the carburetor, so I did. He disassembled the ol' Carter YF carburetor and he took out the needle-and-seat and licked it, literally. We put the thing back in and reassembled the carburetor and that car never died again. We got lucky just like you did. GREAT VIDEO!
Quick personal experience. Jeep 2014 2.0L with a very lazy P0171. Vehicle finally went limp mode, torn down, found the following: PCV Valve failed (open pinion), flooded the intake with oil, Throttle Body TPS sensors destroyed by "snapping" closed throttle when entering limp mode, oil soaked MAP sensor, destroyed, intake gasket and manifold (plastic) shrank and was not properly torqued to head, so there was a lot of problems. The intake gasket was so loose that it was allowing air to transfer between cylinders (at times), but not setting codes. Everything is fine since repaired and replaced parts. Throttle Body, MAP, PCV, Gasket, Torqued and sealed, etc. Thanks Ivan for all the hard work, you do a great job, lots of people watch you and are amazed, so am I!
That's a crazy failure!!
I work for a large fleet and we had the same issue with other models with the same design, but something we found is the pins on the fuel pump connector back from their usual place making false contact and cause the same issues than the relay, changing the pigtail with the pump and the relay mod is usually the final solution. Is a Chrysler, can’t expect perfection.
The first thing I notice when opening the hood is any after-market parts! The K&N air filters are known to provide oil on the throttle bodies by their design. And you know that the system must be kept clean and dry! I 've had a few MAF sensors covered with oil and a few TB filthy from high mileage. Not changing an overdue air filter only forces more dirt into the TB causing idle and stalling.
I had a similar issue with a Jeep Liberty or Patriot where the intake air temperature sensor was getting a bad ground which caused it to say the air was like 450 degrees F and shut the engine down after a few minutes of run time. Someone had moved a ground wire and actually bolted it to the plastic intake so it had no ground at all. The sensor had to be replaced after relocating the ground to the firewall but ran fine afterwards which made the customer very happy since it was to several garages before I worked on it. Sometimes the smallest issues are the hardest to figure out.
The smallest issue was on a dealer sign that said GM! 😂
That code “p2111 electronic throttle control unable to close” was key. Nice Diagnosis 👍
K&N filters suck (all brands that copy the same oil-soaked mesh design). It doesn't filter enough so it lets fine dust and sand through which not only wears out the engine but covers the intake system in dirt. Like you saw here. It will also dirty the MAF sensor.
I am not a fan of the K&N filter system either for two reasons. 1) It requires service/cleaning much more often than a paper filter. 2) They are known to interfere with MAF sensors, especially if they are over oiled or dirty.
Few people know, but in the late 50s/early 60s many auto manufacturers used a system similar to the K&N. They stopped using it because customers would not properly maintain it and even on carbureted engines, the restricted air flow caused problems.
Thanks Ivan. Aftermarket parts sure seem like a good idea...until they don't.
He sent it to you with a FULL TANK OF FUEL ⛽!!
Rare! Usually it's on E when you need to drive it 😂
@@volvo09 I know, right!
Thanks for taking us along on this confounding test case. Once again, I learned something new. Awesome job.
Get rid of the K&N (Kendra and Natalie) air filter, no trouble codes, clean the throttle body, no more parts cannon, no more 10 hours interstate tow bill. Nice work Ivan.
This one was definitely an interesting one sometimes it’s just the basics that cause really intermittent issues. Just thinking aloud but perhaps given that it had an aftermarket filter coupled with a dirty throttle body that it was flowing too much or too little and would cause the pcm to freak out. Just powers grounds inputs and outputs. The pcm only knows what it’s being told and compared to stored info. Great diag as always and the no parts required solution
Tremendous tutorial !
Thank you for sharing your knowledge . You are a dedicated coach !! Much appreciated mate !! 👊🏼
Its wonderful to get as much of a detailed history however it needs to be put into a timeline of repairs vs specific symptom .
Driving with the scope to rule in or out a particular component is very important.
It's easy to get sidetracked when you have so much data out of perspective.
Your approach was spot on and common sense.
Nice job
Great video again Ivan .
Persistent pays off .
Some times the little things can meant a lot .
I think with your knowledge and experience it pay off .
Please keeping teaching us .
God bless you and your family brother.
In 2019 my daughter's 2010 mazda 3 was doing almost the same thing when coming to a stop. No aftermarket air filter. Stock air flow. Went on line and everyone said to check the throttle body for cleanliness. It was very dirty. Cleaned and ran perfect after that after it re-learned the TPS position. Only took about a mile to re-learn. Thanks internet and youtube.
I had a problem with a Delphi pump that I chased for awhile. Intermittent stall, only after driving while under heavy engine load. I had just replaced the pump so I ruled that out being the cause. Ended up being the pump overheating and stalling, would restart sometimes right away, other times after 30 minutes. Interesting stuff electronics are lol
I saw the K&N logo early in the video. My mind went oh-oh!
I love watching your videos. I don't get into the electronics of our vehicles but you definitely raised my awareness related to electronic issues.
Nice video and diagnosis. Intermittent problems are the worst. I just had that with a Webasto boiler. It took me probably three weeks before I could recreate the problem and confidently replace the part that caused the issue.
IVAN,AWESOME diagnosing as always you always amaze me with ur thought process and analyze thanks for sharing as always.cheeeeeers
Great job again bro. Is cleaning the throttle body considered “cleaning the parts canon “? lol your notes and diagrams are awesome by the way. ❤
Great job Ivan. Shows that you should not get stuck in the weeds and sometimes just go back to the basics.
Great video Ivan. Those problems are hard to find!! I had purchased a used car. Someone had changed the fuel pump in my car before I bought it. Whoever it was should not work on cars. They only changed the pump not the assembly. They install a worm drive hose clamp to the fuel line but installed it to high on the barb. The hose partially slipped off and was leaking in the tank causing misfires after 10 miles, or after the car was parked for a short time. I thought it was a heat soak problem. I purchased a fuel pressure gauge and seen I only had 12psi and my fuel line was filling with air bubbles. I was surprised it ran at all. My neighbor who is a mechanic installed a new fuel pump assembly for me and the car has been running great since. You never know what you will find. lol
Great video as always Ivan!
hey Ivan I don't subscribe but I watch every new video you put out. I thought you may have done a cam crank relearn for the hell of it.
and maybe followed up on them APP codes
I really enjoy when you open up a part that has failed. just to see what broke. and what makes it tick
🇭🇲👍🤪🇭🇲
That's a very weird one Ivan. Blessings and great work always
One of the best starts to my Saturday morning. ,👍🏼
Absolutely crazy! Amazed that simple cleaning did the trick. With carburated cars, that was usually a problem, but never thought that it would happen in EFI car. Well done Ivan!!
Yep in some efi cars that use drive by wire if something's not right with the throttle blade it'll either not start or start up and run a default idle and become unresponsive to throttle pedal inputs cars without drive by wire you'd just get either stalling or a high idle.
Same thing. Low rpm. No air would stall it
Yes, crazy. I would have tried ether to see if it would restart. Had an 88 Ranger with a similar issue. Had spark and fuel pressure on the rail. It would start and run on ether but die. Leave it alone and it would start an run fine until a week later. I junked the truck.
That was tough!! Excellent persistence!
Good job! I have to say that I'm sure there's a number of mechanics that are envious about the amount of time you get to spend on these kinds of problems. I guess that's the advantage of being self-employed. A wage-slave would have to take a guess and ship it.
Outstanding work as usual!
Sometimes just a little muck some were,but there’s the skill,finding the muck.good video.
Putting a micro-relay on the TIPM was one of the worst ideas ever. That's too much current for a micro-relay. I have bypassed several of them myself.
If you’re investing your money in a Chrysler product. You’ve already failed yourself.
But that wasn't the problem and Chrysler took of the problem TIPM.
I just don't get it...why would an engineer put a mechanical relay in the tipm? Why not go solid state and use transistors? Or, here's a thought, replaceable relays like every other car ever....
@@xanderlander8989 Wasn't that the recall fix?
That was my reaction at first, so I kept watching. There is a reason to employ a pilot relay in some cases. #1 is voltage change - typically an integration move for automation incorporating disparate things like...a 24v PLC system monitoring devices already built/in service such as steel mill controls or what have you. Not the case with a vehicle, obviously. #2 would be to reduce wiring needed for higher amperage devices: either routing considerations [on account of interference], or limit costs. For a car, I would only think to do this as part of a master relay/lockout design, such as overrides needed to allow cranking the engine regardless of normal running inputs being absent [oil pressure, crank trigger, etc] with a short timer to prevent tripping codes. But still...for this Durango it seems they had an aneurysm. "silicon contamination of relay contacts"? I have worked on a bunch of IP65 equipment over the years and cannot explain how they managed to do this to themselves.
Years ago, I had a vehicle mimic the symptoms here - if the engine up was to temp it stalled out [roughly] coming to a stop, but only sometimes - turned out the MAF sensor was going bad. No codes thrown after restart on any occasion. Replaced that sensor and all good.
Having been a victim of mouse-chewed fuel pump wiring, I would have got under the vehicle and inspected wiring harnesses along the frame rails too, just to be sure.
I had his exact symptoms on the same exact car, another shop had already done the relay bypass and a replaced the fuel pump, only difference is the problem was a lot more frequent. What I found was the bulk connector going to the fuel tank, it’s Christmas treed onto the rear subframe, the pin for the ground side of the fuel pump in that connector was completely cooked and melting the connector so the fuel pump was loosing ground. I ended up cutting the wire on both sides of the connector and installing a male and female butt connectors. This was like a year or so ago and the cars been great ever since. I assume the original fuel pump is what caused the problem to begin with before it was replaced. If this customer ever calls you back saying the problem has returned I would recommend telling them to check that bulk connector
Hey Ivan, just wanted to share my experience with you about my 2013 chrysler 300S. At about 80,000 miles I thought my transmission was going. I had some hard down shifting from 2nd to first when stopping at a traffic light most times. Never had an issue with acceleration, just deceleration. I spilled and filled my transmission three times before i changed the expensive filter pan assembly which only improved things a little bit. Some time passed and @90,000 i decided to change the pcv valve and upper and lower intake gaskets. Lastly i cleaned my throttle plate and bore and whamo! Down shifting issued resolved! Throttle plate wasnt terrible but maybe just enough to keep the idle up high enough to cause the issue. It wasnt much but man it made a difference. The next week or two i changed all spark plugs and idle smoothed out even more and gas mileage improved by 3 miles per gallon.
What a weird case...😮 great job sir
Living in the UK if you can predict a warm day then buy a lottery ticket. When my friend who is a VW tech has a heat related problem he runs the car around to a mutual friend who has a paint and body shop. They put the car into the paint booth and turn the heat to max, with an extractor on the tail pipe he can run the engine for as long as it takes to fail. He says it works like a charm every time.
I do hope the dealers take not of what independent repairers identify as successful diagnosis and repair and put it in their diagnostic trees, and issue alerts to these new findings. It can not only benefit the technicians, but ultimately the owners of the vehicles through effective diagnosis, repairs with the flow on being reduced repair costs and the return of a vehicle that is actually repaired first time. Great work Ivan.
I have to argue with one of your statements. There are conditions that will cause the ASD relay to shut the engine down that will not set a code. I work for a technician assistance hotline and the first one of these I came across was a v6 grand cherokee that would intermittently stall only when stopped or during decel. The tech scoped the ignition signals and the asd relay control and found that every time the relay turned off was directly after #6 coil would fire. I advised him to move the coil #5 and the plug to #4 and the condition followed the plug not the coil. He replaced the spark plugs to resolve the incident. There were no codes setting no fishbites or misfires detected no glitches in the scope pattern for the coil no indication of what the pcm was seeing from this plug to shut the engine down. The relay shutdown event could bee seen and felt at higher rpm but it only made the engine stall at lower rpm. I have since seen several chrysler products have this same issue.
Had a very similar problem on a 96 ram and cleaning the throttle body and idle air control valve fixed it too. Dealer told me I needed to replace the common failure plenum gasket so I thought why not clean the throttle body first? Glad I did.
Sitting here watching your video reminds me of Chrysler/Jeep product i had the pleasure of working on years ago. It was about '10-'14 vintage 4.7 grand cherokee. The customer had purchased new and was only serviced at our shop. Owner never had any issues with the vehicle. We performed 100k service which included spark plug replacement. We replaced with Champion plugs, which is what it had in it since new. Vehicle developed a very random stall condition that would happen any time and may actually go weeks with no problem. I spent countless hours trying to diagnose with no definitive direction. Ultimately we purchased OE Champion spark plugs from dealer and the jeep never had that problem again.
That's insane 🤔
I watch your videos. I am sooooo glad I watched this one! I had the same thing. You fixed my car😊.
Haven't watched till the end yet. What was changed or done to the vehicle prior to Christmas?
Watched the rest of the video. WOW!!! 😮 ...to both the cause of the problem and that you thought to check and clean the throttle body. Good catch!!!
I had a problem with my wife's Hyundai ix35 SUV (200,000km) where it would fail to proceed after stopping at the lights.. the engine idled but would not rev or engage the auto trans from moving onward. I checked OBD2 codes with a cheap reader and found the Throttle Body motor current fault active.. a clean of the throttle body fixed the issue.
Love your technical expertise and clear critical thinking.. its a refreshing change from the untrained technicians at the dealerships here in Oz, it appears nobody wants to invest time or fund quality training for our young mechanics.
Excellent videos enjoy much
Crazy stuff. Thanks Ivan!
I hate those k&n setups. They will nasty up stuff. Thanks!
Great job Ivan when you know how things work you're better able to do the necessary repairs. Too much of our mechanics are relying on technology than actually knowledge of basic principle of mechanical systems
Anyone who worked in electro-mechanical telephone exchanges in the 1970's - 1980's would have been aware of the paranoia surrounding silicone (not silicon) contamination of relay contacts, it was a very real problem especially with low voltages. Silicone is present in some coatings so heating or overheating can cause the release of silicones and they migrate readily. It's the first instance I have come across where a car manufacturer has raised this issue but then again soldered in relays in fuse box circuit boards are something new. I presume that because this car has a motor driven throttle that there is no separate Idle Air Control Valve as sticking or fouled IAC valves exhibit similar symptoms.
As usual, an interesting and informative video Ivan, it looks like you need a multiple input compact A/D data logger with large memory that you can leave in the engine bay for days if need be and overcome the need to carry a Laptop computer around.
I had exactly same symptoms in a 01 grand Cherokee started out as a single miss going down highway it progressed to intermediate stall no start. Drove me crazy trying to chase cause down yes tried parts cannon unfortunately. Eventually started looking for a bad ground. Found it with pcm mounting screws takes 3 screws with threads coarser than wood screws. Changed them out with 3 fine threaded bolts and sanded firewall to make good contact with pcm. Solved problem did happy dance. No problems in 175k miles
I feel your pain..... I have a G-body GM that use to stall when rolling up to a stop light or stop sign. For months I thought it was in the Ignition but it turned out being a sticky Torque Converter Clutch activation Solenoid. It would stick on while decelerating to zero MPH, stall and when the Transmission pump pressure went to zero the TCC Solenoid would release and the car would start and run normally. It was a mechanical fault and those antiquated PCM`s would not register a fault. Driving it on an icy road gave me a clue. At Idle just before the stall I felt a back wheel slip. Great Vid. I will never purchase a Chrysler Product.....
Back in the mid to late 80’s while working at a Buick dealer, we had a lot of cars with stalling issues just like this. Mostly the new front drive park avenue, lesabre, century, anything with the 3.8 MPI engine and sometimes others, but MPI was in its infancy then. When a car would come in with this issue, one of the very first things we would do was a driveability report and scan, check and set the TPS, check and set the minimum idle speed, and clean the throttle body and plate. Almost every one of those cars was not perfect. One of the things that seemed to help beyond those fixes was to set the minimum idle speed to the upper limit of the spec, so even if the IAC ran all the way in (closed bypass air), the engine would have a chance to idle. I know newer systems are different now, but this issue has been around since the very early days of EFI.
@Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, hey Ivan, another great video! ^_^ I'm happy that the customer's problem seems to be fixed but who knows with Dodge/Chrysler products!😄Sad they've already spent $$$.... It does make sense that something to do with the air/idle management system can cause a vehicle to stall and not want to restart because without air, it won't! I'm not saying it's a contributing factor but I found it funny that you said they have one of those oil air filter elements and yet my one of my old cars '01 Taurus specifically states NOT to use such air filters. Idk about these Durango's, I assume they just recommend "MOPAR" parts but... I wonder if in their testing/calculation tiny oil bits eventually begin to coat the throttle body and other components like MAF sensor etc., after all, we know that those pistons can put some serious demand on those air filter elements, especially when opening that throttle up!
@Ivan: What about a dirty K&N filter? These have be maintained as well. Rinse it with their cleaning kit and re-oil the thing.
Are the plugs and leads still okay?
Measure the fuel pressure.
Although it seems a thermal problem: Are the valves still closing?
Secondary winding in the coils okay?
That was weird but sometimes you have to think out of the box good job.
Thankfully on intermittent cars like this we'll have our lube techs drive them while I have the scope connected. When and if it happens hopefully we catch it. Sometimes we just have to give it back to the customer and say we just couldn't duplicate the concern. I just don't throw parts at cars though. Id rather the customer be upset we couldnt fox it than be upset that they spent whatever amount and its not fixed.
Dealer?
@@R3YNZ No. I work at an independent shop.
Thank you for your diligence!
First.... I would love more than anything, to have my own shop, let alone at my residence!
Secondly, I'd LOVE to be as good at this as you are, and get cars towed in to me from MULTIPLE STATES AWAY!
WOW what a reputation!
You've become an icon!
Reminds me of a certain camper. It's astounding how sensitive some of these systems can be....... But I agree on the filter. Stock paper has been proven best.
The stall symptom and the codes on your health report immediately led me to throttle-related issues. My 2006 F-150 with the 5.4L 3-valve stalled out on me many years ago. I was driving about 55-60 MPH on a crosstown freeway and the truck stalled out at full speed. Luckily, I was able to get to the shoulder of the road (about 3 lanes over). The dash had lit up like a Christmas tree. I had my cheap code reader with me and found I had a stuck open throttle code. The truck restarted fine and I was able to get home. I left for the shop super early the next morning, so if it stalled out again I wouldn't have to deal with morning rush traffic. I checked my throttle body and it was very dirty. I cleaned it thoroughly, cleared the codes and have had no stalling issue since (that was about 4-5 years ago now).
Watching your videos reminds me not to be too bothered by the poor gas mileage of my 2004 Sequoia. Paid $4000. Owned it now for over 3 years. 179,000 miles. Bulletproof reliability, only thing I've done is basic maintenance. Have hauled and towed stuff, camped in it, and its 4WD has got me out of some very tricky situations.
I also have an '02 Sequoia. I've had it 6 years and 100k miles. Radiator and alternator went out and replaced a cracked manifold and steering rack. Those are all the big issues I've had with it. Engine still buttery smooth with 360k on the clock.
Who'd have thought. Interesting diagnostic.
Fascinating video!
I had very similar code list for a 3.6 in a dodge Journey. The 3 wires on the crank sensor were melted together. The car ran fine cold but once up to operating temp would stall and be a no start. The other shops didn't look at crank sensor because it was labor intensive to get to. Entire exhaust and AWD system had to be removed to get to it. What led to the problem was the schematics. The throttle body ,crank sensor, throttle pedal and a few others were all sharing the same 5v reference. Everything I could get to checked out fine. Got approval to dismantle everything and installed new oem sensor and pigtail. All is good. It was giving codes on throttle system only because of shorted wires. Nothing was wrong with accelerator pedal or throttle body.
Wow. I might have to check the TB on my 3.6 with 110k on it. That’s a pretty significant drop in % from a simple cleaning. Let’s hope it stays fixed! I need a Pico…and more ARs 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
In my opinion, Chrysler has been on what I call "The ragged edge" when it comes to technology.
They will bring out something new, but it seems like there's no compensation or "plus or minus" on either side of an operating program. There was idle/stall problems in the 1994 Dodge B350 vans with the 360 cu. in. V8. There was hesitation and stalling in the 89 B350 360 V8 engine. Replacing the Hall Effect pick up inside the distributor on the 89 fixed the problem. Go figure.
The 94 fix was reset the minimum idle as per Dodge's instruction.
Now it's TIPM's and we're back to dirty throttle bodies and minimum idle resets. Except with drive by wire you clean the TB, then if you can do the following, go into the scan tool and raise the idle if there is that ability.
Anyway, Good one Ivan!
Thanks for doing such a thorough follow up with this Mechanics nightmare, Because it's going to be VALUABLE information for someone, A few years ago I bought a 2005 Civic special edition Sedan from Chicago, It was originally sold in GORGIA, Anyways that would randomly not restart after running for 5 mins to an hour but would never shut off while driving in other words it was only a restart problem no codes ever, This was caused by a Green-corronded Crankshaft position-speed connection at the sensor, Someone obviously allowed coolant to get into this sensor when the timing belt and waterpump was replaced, Also someone had already replaced this sensor before I ended finding the plugs connectors in really 💩 shape after replacing both it never ever had a problem afterwards, I first found this problem while monitoring the Crankshaft speed while cranking in the no start episodes it was showing very little to no speed it was also frustrating to find because it was very random on only did it when say above 100⁰ F engine temps, Then sometimes it would take 24hrs before it would restart after not, This happened about 5 years ago now, And if course a teen ager crashed the Car a year ago or so but at least I got another 85,000 miles out of it before the crash, Car was Totaled out driver and passenger's a few air bag bruises without any known injuries, So everyone was lucky except the Car 🧐. Best Diagnostic channel on CZcams for Vehicles ... You're (Making Car repairs Great again ) 😁
Very good learning video thank you
So far so good , but can’t quite get My eyebrows to fully relax . 👍👍🇺🇸
Another weird case going Ivan's way! So, they replace a failed relay with a relay that fails in a way I never heard of - Silicon contamination in a mechanical relay? Where does the silicon come from? Is it a solid state relay that can't handle the load? Once you have to wait when it fails, could it be a temperature related problem?
And just a dirty throttle body caused that intermittent problem... Wow! Great analysis, Ivan!
Surprising result. I would have went with the fuel pump. I have experienced weird fuel pump issues one nearly drove me insane until I bench tested it. It had normal prime, good pressure and none of the normal signs/readings that would make you suspect it except the intermittent sputtering/stalling. Even on the bench it looked good until I hooked it up to a push button switch and gave it momentary hits of power then held the button down and you could hear a ever so quiet anomaly (wah wah wah whisper quiet) for 30 seconds and it would clear up. If it wasn't dead quiet in the shop I would have even missed that. I replaced it, the car is still running. Curiosity got the best of me so I disassembled the pump motor and could see nothing remarkable. Needless to say this is a readers digest version of what happened and I believe I came up with some new profane words in the process. Still bugs me to this day. Enjoyed the video and could relate to the frustration.😎👍
I think the original problem was the fuel pump relay in the TIPM, which was fixed by the recall. Since they also had the throttle body issue, the stalls due to it at low speeds/idle were mistaken for being the fuel pump issue.
U check da mass air flow sensor & clean it keep up da gr8 vids ur da best
I had a car like that, would randomly stop on warm days when the tank was 1/4 or less. Just learned to keep the tank full. Was a 2002 GM/Holden Commodore, Buick 3.8 V6. Cars also idle poorly or stall when the MAF hot wire sensor is dirty.
The customer stated this all started when it was very Cold, could ice in the fuel line cause damage to the id of the line? This could cause a very intermittent blockage. Maybe a dumb idea... thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
One thing I appreciate the most about these videos is learning what vehicles NEVER to buy. Yeesh.
I have spoke about a similar problem with my great uncles stepdaughters 1997 model Ford EL Falcon which runs their Australian built 4 litre "thriftpower" inline six.
An auto electrician wired In a new fuel pump relay for $280 AUD (rip off) which didn't Fix the problem.
I replaced the ECU due to a split resistor which still had continuity through it but the problem was actually caused by a crappy 25 year old engine immobilizer/car alarm which had high resistance in it so I bypassed it by rewiring it back to how Ford wired it up at the factory.
Over 1 year later it's still going no problems.
It had the same issue where the problem was very intermittent until the engine stalled every time the car was placed into drive,she had it towed to my dads place where I could work on it.
Believe me,I had a very difficult time finding the problem because it took 3 times for me to really nail the problem because I never gave up !
Not surprised if this does end up being the right fix on a car with K&N filter. Even though the TB didn't look that dirty it's possible the filter oil fouled up something in there related to idle air control. I had a similar problem on my 4.0 ZJ, random stalling with hard re-start when coming to a stop. Cleaned out the TB and IAC back in the spring, it hasn't stalled since. No K&N on mine, just 25 years without being cleaned, but it goes to show you it doesn't take much to stall the car in those situations.
Thanks for you vidéo 😉👍
Used to have an '06 GM product and a dirty throttle body was preventing the car to start when hot unless pumping the gas pedal. After cleaning it everything went back to normal starting every time cold or hot no problem!
Just goes to show, ALWAYS check the basics first !!! Lesson learned.
I guess the lessons here are 1) check the basics 2) maintain your vehicle. Don't know anything about how the throttle is supposed to react, but it seems odd that there's no roughness as an indication - it just shuts off. Given those TPS codes, maybe you bought some time but the problem is still there.
Insane find and fix if indeed it was the throttle body. Which I’m sure it was. Weird is right!
This video makes me feel soooo much better about my brothers car. It has had an issue for years to the point he just gave me the car and it has sat in my garage ever since. It's a diesel. Because of how aggressive the limp mode is on fords, it's almost killed him a couple of times. Cutting all power when he's been on the freeway with a truck behind him. Pulling out into traffic etc.
It will trip limp mode once every 2, 3, even 6 months and 10's of thousands of km's. Just once, if you cycle the ignition, away it goes again. It finally got to the point where it was doing it almost every time he drove it after many years of this. So he trucked it to me to have if I cab fix it. Now it's unregistered. I thought, "brilliant, if it's faulting, I can fix it!".
Nope!
I took it for a spin, drives faultlessly.
It sets codes each time for the high pressure fuel sensor range performance. But the dealer already shot the parts cannon multiple times with genuine parts. Pumps, sensors, injector tests etc.
So now I have to decide if I bother registering it to chase this issue to make it saleable. Or just burn it. The tech in me wants to nail it. The wise person in me just wants to crush it and save the hours I know it will take just to get it to fault. But as you had on the first stall. Do you drive thousands of km's with equipment attached or risk it faulting when you just have a scanner?
The silica on the bypass relay are plausible, but normally this only happends if the relay contacts are crap material or bad incapuslation.
DC relayes with high current contacts needs to be a good material, and the contactpoints have the right size. If to small the contacts will get pivited to fast.
Pink + Stripe color wires on Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram from late '90's up is usually a power feed from the ignition switch. It can even go through another relay and change to another Pink + stripe color.
I recently had a 2006 Explorer with the exact same symptoms. Occasionally appeared to have very minor interruptions in fuel control. Defective pcm. Was an interesting one!
Those Ford PCMs aren't the longest lasting. Leaking caps perhaps?
I had a very similar issue years back with a 2010 Grand Cherokee. It was the IAC valve