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Tips for Mixing Dolby Atmos in Headphones
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2024
- Mix engineer Dave Stagl offers some tips for mixing music in the Dolby Atmos format using headphones.
◎ MIXING & MASTERING in Dolby Atmos & Stereo: www.staglproductions.com
◎ Training & Consulting: www.goingto11.com
◎ 5 Tips for a Great Dolby Atmos Release: tinyurl.com/y76pdt2u
Sonarworks: tinyurl.com/bdf4a7y8
SoundFlow: soundflow.org/invite?fpr=293i6
Waves Plug-Ins: waves.alzt.net/93xg4
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SOCIAL MEDIA
/ fohdave1
/ goingto11
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00:00 - Start
01:26 - Tip #1
02:56 - Tip #2
08:03 - Dolby Atmos Does NOT Emulate Proximity
09:41 - Tip #3
10:49 - Tip #4
14:30 - Tip #5
15:36 - Wrap-Up
Dave, you really are a great giver in tips. Always common sense approach and focus on where we can get a good mix using conservative but trustworthy strategies. Thanks for what you do.
Thanks! I'm glad you find them helpful.
Yes I support you , my workflow is usually to mix on headphones first despite having access to a certified Atmos studio and checking them later in our dub stage that has far field 11.1.10 for final tweaks , usually why I recommend starting on headphones is because of x - curve issues in studios in general . Loudspeakers are prone to acoustics and one has to shell lot of money into properly treating their space but on other hand headphones like Sony MDR MV1 which I currently using can decently help me translate my mixes to Theatrical with avid level of details to work with and especially very helping when editing the dialog or in this case vocals to spectrally clean something and mix cynically and Dolby binaural when coupled in a specific way works flawlessly . Also the other reason being , it's easy to optimise a mix for loudspeakers during the post mix if you pre mix on headphones, there by satisfying both kinds of consumers , however a mix started on a beautiful 9.1.6 loudspeakers often turns out to be conservative and usually the Binaural version right away might not necessarily sound great unless until the BRMs being modified , for most of the average consumer listeners it's difficult for them to hear a difference between a LR Vs Lw Rw in the case of up-mixes while sounding great on a loudspeaker system simply because we have offloaded the LR and thus increasing the intelligibility . But there is a learning curve if anyone wants to work on headphones . Because it's important to build mixes with the fundamentals of Loudspeakers imaging in mind and some knowledge about Acoustics and Psychoacoustics , but unfortunately everyone wants to jump right into headphone mixing without these pre - requisites and therefore attempts the problem of panning wrong sounds to surrounds . I won't claim mine is a trained ear but fortunately with some discipline I am able to translate my headphone mixes straight into Theatrical . But I have undergone hefty training and best practices to position objects in 3D and the kind of audio material that can be fed into them etc , before I am able to confidently mix on headphones . Understanding the binaural representation of a speaker and back and forth with a lot of iterations and eventually I developed a template that works for me with my custom surround configuration and set custom BRMs to approximately translate my mixes to Theatrical , however the limitations is that , it's an object - bed workflow with no dynamic objects and no traditional bed ( but I do NOT recommend everyone to follow me , my case is a peculiar one )
You're sort of saying Atmos is a headphone format first. IF the Atmos fold-down to 2.0 sounded better than the original stereo version, I'd agree it a speaker format first. but it never does. So it's really a headphone 1st format.
Really great and grounded advice. Things some of us peeps miss or don’t think about. Thanks!
Thanks! I'm glad you found it helpful.
Well I did my first atmos production on headphones only. The binaural result was nice and easy to listen to. Now I'm on a full 7.1.4 speaker setup and realized how many bad decision I made.
Way to back heavy, the main instrument (Native American Flute) was somewhere in space instead in front of you etc.
Yes you absolutely right, you have to check on speakers.
Lesson learned.
Another great video Dave 👍🏻
Thanks!
Okay , what's your experimental experience though ? Because I have experienced Dolby Atmos in Dub stages , my mileage is very different honestly . We were able to walk around an object - just like an audio hologram , meaning I could perfectly anchor an object at the mth row nth seat ! and was able to walk around it ( I won't claim that it's a perfect audio source effect if I compare with let's say a portable speaker located directly in that zone but more or less it is , if I get off too far away like more than 50 percent of the space to the walls then it breaks obviously ). But the fact you were saying this is surprising , because Dolby Atmos by design using the LBAP panning algorithm . Have you walked around an object yet !? Let me know your experiences . I don't want to mistaken you but it seems like you were confused between the traditional panner of a Bed Vs object panner of Dolby . Both pans signals differently . And in large movie theaters they will be auto de-correlated as well , it's all built into metadata . You could in general flip a pan between bed vs object and try to move around it and maybe you could then share us some of your insights . But again this by NO means , I want to encourage headphone users to pan signals where ever they like , sure it is a mess considering the fact that not all Theatrical or even home theater spaces are calibrated perfectly and the other problem is that , I don't want to encourage panning wrong frequencies ar wrong locations which doesn't add up to the experience . But overall , there is no harm to pan anywhere in between in object mode
I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that de-correlation is only applied when using the size parameter.
The format definitely allows any engineer to pan wherever they want, but that doesn't mean wherever is always going to work in all environments. I've heard phase issues in multiple studios when things were placed in static positions off the wall. It didn't matter if it was an object or a bed. And I don't think it's wise to treat Atmos purely as a headphone format for any type of content because it's not. Atmos is a speaker format with content that may be experienced in headphones. Perhaps one day it will be agnostic in terms of the delivery mechanism, but for now it's all about the speakers and everything that is happening in headphones is an attempt to recreate the speaker presentation.
I have a video with a sound panning around the room both as an object and in the bed--it's probably in a video on choosing between using an object or the bed. I also have video with a microphone in my room demonstrating what happens when you bring a sound off the wall--I believe this is in a video on why we need speakers to mix.
If I pan a sound off the wall and toggle it between an object and a bed, there is no change in perception of that sound in my studio on my 7.1.4 setup because it is purely amplitude involved in the panning. There may be a difference in a theatrical environment, though, since sounds placed on the sides in the bed will be sent to the array rather than occur as a discrete object in the nearest speaker(s).
Dave, thanks a lot for your wonderful videos, although i am working in Logic for Atmos. Great tips !
Glad you like them!
Is there a hot key for opening the 3d panner? Your videos have been helping me so much! Thank you!
Thanks! I'm glad they're helping.
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure that there's a hotkey to open the panner window in Pro Tools. It might be something you can assign, though, because I know there are Soundflow macros to open it. I actually have a bunch of Soundflow macros that I use to do all my static panning.
I am working on a mix, in the PT session the 5.1 re-render measures -18.3 dbLUFS. Setting the Trim controls to 0dB for Surround and Height for the 2.0 down mix it clips, and measures -14.96dBLUFS. When I compare the binaural re-render in the same section as where the stereo mix clips it peaks at -1.74dB, and the loudness of the mix is -16.57. I am using the internal renderer. So I should adjust the Trim controls back down again, from 0dB? At the moment when this happens the signal is automated, adding height panning.
What meter are you using to measure things?
The current best practice is to set the surrounds and heights to 0 in the trims for music. You can do something different, but I wouldn't modify things if you don't have a way to check it in speakers.
Delivery specs are currently -18 LUFS integrated with -1 True Peak. The measurement is performed on the 5.1 re-render. It's also a best practice to make sure the binaural isn't going into limit so that the limiter on a consumer device won't have to kick in.
@@goingto11 In PT I am using iZotope Insight, and Nugen VisLM. As the 5.1 re-render was at -18.3 LUFS in PT I thought the stereo re-render on export would be ok. I am pushing the Height pan in the mix and that made it clip, so I would be worried that might happen on the user end. No limiting or dynamic processing is being used.
@@alan_gleeson Something I run into at times are momentary peaks in maybe one or two places that bust the TP limit. In those cases, I'll usually just address those parts in the mix.
Are you sure , Dolby Atmos doesn't have proximity simulation ? I heard many artists & engineers explaining that they are indeed experiencing those effects on loudspeakers
Yes. I would suspect their eyes are deceiving them while mixing because Dolby Atmos is strictly level based panning and level alone is not how we perceive the location of a sound. I have a video about this in the works.
@@goingto11 okay , what's your personal experience though ? Because I have experienced Dolby Atmos in Dub stages , my mileage is very different honestly . We were able to walk around an object - just like an audio hologram , meaning I could perfectly anchor an object at the mth row nth seat ! and was able to walk around it ( I won't claim that it's a perfect audio source effect if I compare with let's say placing a portable speaker located in that zone directly but more or less it is , if I get off too far away like more than 50 percent of the space to the walls then it breaks obviously ). But the fact you were saying this is surprising , because Dolby Atmos by design using the LBAP panning algorithm . Have you walked around an object yet !? Let me know your experiences . I don't want to mistaken you but it seems like you were confused between the traditional panner of a Bed Vs object panner of Dolby . Both pans signals differently . And in large movie theaters they will be auto de-correlated as well , it's all built into metadata . You could in general flip a pan between bed vs object and try to move around it and maybe you could then share us some of your insights . But again this by NO means , I want to encourage headphone users to pan signals where ever they like , sure it is a mess considering the fact that not all Theatrical or even home theater spaces are calibrated perfectly and the other problem is that , I don't want to encourage panning wrong frequencies at wrong locations which doesn't add up to the experience . But overall , there is no harm to pan anywhere in between in object mode
@@goingto11 Okay , what's your personal experience though ? Because I have experienced Dolby Atmos in Dub stages , my mileage is very different honestly . We were able to walk around an object - just like an audio hologram , meaning I could perfectly anchor an object at the mth row nth seat ! and was able to walk around it ( I won't claim that it's a perfect audio source effect if I compare with let's say a portable speaker located directly in that zone but more or less it is , if I get off too far away like more than 50 percent of the space to the walls then it breaks obviously ). But the fact you were saying this is surprising , because Dolby Atmos by design using the LBAP panning algorithm . Have you walked around an object yet !? Let me know your experiences . I don't want to mistaken you but it seems like you were confused between the traditional panner of a Bed Vs object panner of Dolby . Both pans signals differently . And in large movie theaters they will be auto de-correlated as well , it's all built into metadata . You could in general flip a pan between bed vs object and try to move around it and maybe you could then share us some of your insights . But again this by NO means , I want to encourage headphone users to pan signals where ever they like , sure it is a mess considering the fact that not all Theatrical or even home theater spaces are calibrated perfectly and the other problem is that , I don't want to encourage panning wrong frequencies ar wrong locations which doesn't add up to the experience . But overall , there is no harm to pan anywhere in between in object mode
How can I mix, bounce using the internal Dolby in protools
Bounce like if you were going to bounce a classic stereo file and change the setting of the format to BWF wav to BWF wav (Dolby Atmos)
tks .that's what I seen
Screw atmos. Record labels attempt at re-owning the market. Nothing more.