AlphaZero vs AlphaZero || THE PERFECT GAME
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2019
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AlphaZero vs AlphaZero
Caro-Kann defence (B12)
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be3 Qc7 7. h4 Nbd7 8. a4 h6 9. Nf3 a6 10. Bc4 Bd6 11. Kf1 b6 12. Qe2 Bb7 13. Re1 Ke7 14. Bd2 Rhe8 15. g4 c5 16. d5 Kf8 17. dxe6 b5 18. axb5 Nb6 19. g5 Nxc4 20. Qxc4 Bxf3 21. Rg1 hxg5 22. hxg5 Ng8 23. Re3 Bh5 24. Rh1 Bg6 25. Rf3 Re7 26. Nd5 Qb7 27. exf7 Rxf7 28. Bf4 Be7 29. b6 Rd8 30. Nc7 Qxf3 31. Ne6+ Ke8 32. Nc7+ Kf8 33. Ne6+ Ke8
The increasing strength of chess engines, the millions of computer games and the volumes of opening theory available to every player are making top-level chess less imaginative. Decisive games in super-tournaments have declined, while the number of games with what I'd call "creative" content is also on the slide.
The 2018 world championship match between Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana, for example, ended with zero decisive classical games. (Carlsen defended his world title by winning a rapid-game playoff.)
This is not the players’ fault, but the reality they face. It would be strange to expect them to deliberately decrease their chances of a positive outcome by taking unreasonable risks for the sake of playing more “entertaining” games. From my own experience, I know how difficult it has become to force a complex and interesting fight if your opponent wants to play it safe. As soon as one side chooses a relatively sterile line of play, the opponent is forced to follow suit, leading to an unoriginal game and an inevitably drawish outcome.
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#alphazero "Watch me without ads on your Amazon devices (bit.ly/Agadmator_Amazon) and Roku TV (bit.ly/Agadmator_Roku) - Zábava
*watches 3 minutes of chess moves*
“But alpha wasn’t going to fall for that trap”
*switches back to game board from 3 minutes ago*
Yeah I don't like how long he goes on sidelines
Linfa lol I was more talking about how far ahead they can predict these things while I’m like “yeah if I move here, he’s definitely gonna move this one piece” *makes move* *opponent completely counters in a totally different way*
@@Linfaviglia that's what makes a strong player though...
I'm OK with that BUT at least he needs to distinguish it for us visually (what is the real game and his prediction). It's confusing! 😂
You must be new here
And it was in this position I realize I have no idea how to play chess.
As far as AlphaZero is concerned, no human knows how to play chess. We just push the pieces around in childish ways.
Yeah, AlphaZero plays far above the masters
Trueeee
why did we build this thing? Its so embarrassing...
I think the castles move in straight lines, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what that horse is doing
"Do you know Vladimir Kromnik"
Me: No, I-
"Of course you do."
Me:
Lmaoooo
Yes
We only know vladimir putin
@@chirotam2314 WE know only Joseph Stalin
Mitsuki we only know Vladimir Spiridonovich
Philosophers : pawns are the soul of the chess....
Alphazero : they are just blocking my rook....
This comment is underrated
lmaooo
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
underrated does not begin to describe this comment. 2.2k likes is far too few
Not sure if philosophers care about chess
alpha: draw?
alpha: okay.
alpha: let's eat some humans. i'm buying.
alpha: okay.
Amanuel Temesgen Spam yes. But tasty 😋
alpha captures on humans*
Taste like chicken and rich in proteins
wait wha-
r/holup
Need stronger alphas that will agree to a draw from the first move.
@Boogey Man Why would we create a synthetic being with its own desires? He's clearly talking about an AI that nearly solves the game on the first move and concludes a draw is inevitable
They can just program it to not be able to ask for a draw
Aahhh yes, the Giri factor.
Thats an open question tho, is there an actual perfect play advantage in chess
Boogey Man stfu
Human: pawn e4
Alpha: mate in 97 moves
Human: pawn d4
Alpha: mate in 62 moves
Human: draw?
😂😂
Too good
Alpha: I'll take that for the robot in your garage.
Human: Okay
Alpha: World domination in 467 moves
@@tranquilclaws8470 but human draws of alpha zero to conclude in amazing 42069 moves
@@auliaakbar4197 I can't quite pick out what you meant to say there.
"Interesting, but doesn't work." The story of my chess games.
this line would look great on a t-shirt 😀
@@dasguptaarup8684 try it with girls
This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!
We should not have made this bargain
@@WiseSam95 Only one is playing with itself...there are not 2
@@kavyanshagrawal5279 I presume it's a joke but okay (⌐■-■)
@@kavyanshagrawal5279 no you're the only one that plays with himself
Your jokes are very impressive. You must be very proud.
"Who are we to argue with Alpha" said the human slave mining for gold in the Arctic in the year 2075.
2075?
Joe: This is decades away or years away?
Elon: It's gonna be on sunday afternoon.
What does Alpha need gold for?
@@alankasjan6488 wait so are you thinking of possibly arguing with alpha?
@@alankasjan6488 circuitry
@@alankasjan6488 economic investment then gaining the ability to flex the economy, then break it since it's alphazero
Alpha zero 1: you activated my trap card!
Alpha zero 2: No, you activated my trap card!
uno reverse card intensivies
*No, I Am Behind You - TV Tropes*
normal chess picture: *some dude smiling for the camera*
alphazero's picture: *mind blowing apart*
This is the chess equivalent of the Spider-Man pointing at himself meme.
EXACTLY
Same!
Lmao that's a perfect description
There is another
:D
Carlsen-“I don’t believe in fortresses”
Kramnik-“I don’t believe in castles”
Tal - "I don't believe in good moves, I believe in mine"
Karpov - "I dont believe in flat earth"
Capablanca "I don't believe in opening theory"
Me - "How can I buy AlphaZero?"
Paul morphy - "i dont believe in chess"
>complains about world championship games ending in draws
>game titled "The perfect game"... ends in a draw
In saying “the perfect game”, he means that every move of the game was the best possible move, in other words, zero mistakes
@@borisssino But his argument is that chess has gotten so high level and so by the book that nearly every move is preplanned and games regularly end in draws. All this does is introduce some chaos for a bit until new preplanned moves are discovered and it arrives to the same point chess is at today
He never complained that the championship games ended in a draw.
@@pokerbuddy62
He didn't complain about that. Kramnik did so he introduced this variant to try and counter it.
You did not get the point. I think he meant chess would be more interesting without castles because it puts you into more dangerous positions. And yes eventually people would turn it into boring positions but that would take few years and lot of undiscovered traps could appear. Idk, this change is something not big so probably human chess wouldn't change that much.
If you want to see no-castling analysis from an engine like Stockfish, just move all four knights out to shuffle the rooks, then bring them back to their starting squares and begin the analysis from there.
Smart!!
Genious!!!
It's another way to do this. I'm a software developer and their code is avaliable but you don't need to mess with it. I think you can "blacklist" certain things. It's so long I messed with stockfish I don't remember how but it's possible.
@@alpha007org yeah, but this is a way to do it if you don't know much about coding and stuff
@@arcycatten most software also has board edit analysis where you can just tell the game that castling is already invalid, and then continue from position.
But yea, it really wouldnt be that hard to trick the engine into playing a default game with no castling.
Alpha 1: "you're weak"
Alpha 2: "I'm you."
Alpha 2: checkmate lol
Flash: I am the fastest man alive
Savitar: No, I am.
Savitar is flash btw
@@gaoindustries8013 Thanks for ruining season 3 :p
Gao why
@@Rain_Beau I like the avengers endgame reference from when thanos said to scarlet witch "I dont even know you"
He played like a wholeass half a game before I realized he was demonstrating what alpha could have done 🤦♂️
this happens all time when im watching his videos lol
And then you realise this whole video was just a version of what could have been done and instead changes the starting move
True, i like when he sometimes shows alternative lines, but this videos was 80% alternative lines and not the game itself
I fucking hate this sometimes, maybe put it in the end of the video instead of mid game
@@wizzies9413 That or not showing 20 moves variations every 2 moves
4:05 - *"Who are we to argue with Alpha?"*
Its amazing how we have reached a point in time in Chess History wherein it would be pointless for Humans to argue with an A.I.
It were only about 2-3 decades ago wherein A.I. were a laughing stock in Chess.
If I'm being pedantic, and I usually am, the first "proper" victory came in 1997. Given the increase in computing power, we are insanely beyond the capability of that today. Deep blue scored 11.38 GFLOPS on LINPACK, which is used for bench marking super computers, and was the 259th fastest on the planet at the time, and took up two computer racks.
Today we have smart phones that score 7.5 GFLOPS and fit in your pocket.
What will be really interesting to see, is how well a human player will do against other human players, if they've only played chess against Alpha Zero their entire life and has only looked at Alpha Zero games.
Martin Schou these are the useless information (to me as a chess illiterate) that I love seeing in the comments ❤️ 👍
@@MrMartinSchou elsewhere I read that phones already have 10x times that computing speed.
@@Ipo024 Yep, and they are exponentially increasing too. (doubling every 18 months at the moment)
It was like 2 years ago AI was a laughing stock in Go. Now MasterGo can humiliate any human by orders of magnitude every single game.
Both games are now pointless IMO.
-Do you know Vladimir Kramnik?
-Who?
-Of course you do, he's a legend chess champion.
-Oh...
"If i won as white its because i was white, If i won as black its because im Alpha Zero, If it was a draw its because we were Alpha Zero"
-Alpha Zero
Emir Sorensen sounded a bit racist 😛
@@lemons20 its bogolyubov's quote i changed the quote a bit
@@lemons20 😂😂😂
Alpha had several draws against Stockfish, but appreciate the sentiment behind this.
I really want to see that fight though. Let Stockfish 10 show its true powers against AlphaZero.
IF stockfish wins, that would be great, since AlphaZero would have a matching agent to train against. Developing even more amazing strategies
When the two smartest kids in the class get different answers
Lol
I mean technically this looks like the two smartest kids got the same answer but using two drastically different methods.
@@republicfalcon They get the same answer using the same methods, yet from different perspectives
But its both the right answers
@@republicfalcon exactly
I can see why this game is so beautiful. Black played the perfect defense to the point where they were impenetrable, and white played the perfect offense to the point where black couldn't do anything but defend.
When I see how this game draws, it makes me think of the immovable object vs the unstoppable force; where black is the immovable object and white is the unstoppable force, and when it came down to it, neither of them could win or lose in the end.
AKA they just pass through each other
@Charlemagne exactly just depends on the decided coordinate system
Wow dude your brain is just so huge that you can see the world from where your standing. It’s so enviable to be able to see such beauty in the midst of a mundane game of International Chess. I cannot fathom how it must feel to be intellectually superior to all of us plebeians who would rather turn this comment into a copypasta instead of understanding my feelings being conveyed through this message. You must have been born with a colossal IQ and pronounced as the reincarnation of a deity’s prefrontal cortex. I am very seriously restraining the urge to kneel in front of your and take you as my master to be worshipped for eternity. Thank you for reading this and have a nice day.
@Veni Wotwot II what...?
@@veniwotwotii3936 😭🍆😳😩🗿
Some Ideas:
Idea 1: Have GMs play for 16 steps each. Then give the game to AlphaZero and see which side wins.
Idea 2: Have GMs and AlphaZero play as a team. In a team comprising of AlphaZero and a player, each will play one move every other step.
@William Muraszko that's actually a cool ass story lol
With Idea 2, the GMs+AlphaZero wins b/c AlphaZero=AlphaZero, but GM > player. Could you clarify that?
@@theuseraccountname Two teams, each is a GM+AlphaZero. So, there are two GMs and two AlphaZeros.
In Vanilla format, the sequence for playing is GM1-GM2-AZ1-AZ2 where AZs are exactly the same algorithm with identical knowledge base (the two AZs have equal level of training).
In a trained format, each GM could come with his own trained AZ (the same algorithm, but each GM trains his own AZ). This could also make people interested in training their own AZs.
It would be chaos because it would be 2 different plans on the same board, or 4 different actually. Interesting
@@surrehue333 Actually the AZ doesn't have any plans (yet). Planning and strategizing is a human things.
“Alpha is not about to be tricked, by the other Alpha”
Truly Alpha is unquestionable
nice try tho!
Yaa 7:14
When he said that it actually made me laugh! Reminded me of that Spider Man meme.
There can be only one!
“Maybe I will push this pawn... someday.” 😆
Witnesses say he is still waiting to push that pawn
Came here to write this exact comment as soon as he said it. You have my like.
@@JChimos mee too and also liked it
Is it me or he just made a joke?
Someone please post the timestamp for when he said that 🙏🏻
The story of how the A2 pawn got to B6:
0:00 Humble beginnings of a humble pawn.
4:43 Moves to A4. It's adventure begins.
9:21 Gets its first blood on B5. Protected by a bishop and knight, but threatened by the black pawn on A6, the A2 pawn puts itself in a brave position.
17:24 The A2 pawn moves up to B6. The bishop that once protected it has long been gone. Right before it lies the powerful Black Queen. The pawn gets itself ready. It knows its purpose: to be prepared to get be killed by the beast that stood before it, and weaken Row 7, so that White can advance to checkmate. The pawn is almost scared, but the nobility of its goal erases any fear it had.
Lord of the rings but chess
Better character arc than most anime.
Not all heroes wear capes
We even got the good ending with the pawn surviving until a truce gets called to bring peace
Haha good story
What I was expecting of a perfect computer game: lots of subtle moves, you dont understand how it works but somehow it leads to an advantage.
What the perfect computer game really is: Every piece hangs
the pices hanging, while it being a bad idea for the opponent to take them, are exactly the subtle moves you dont understand/don't see that create an advantage xD
this has to be satire tho.
Well, that's precisely the ingenuity of the moves.
And somehow they couldn't divise a way to capture those hanging pieces.
Yet you would be losing if you capture the hanging pieces hahaha
6:19 Artificial intelligence castling artificially. What a time to be alive
They learn too fast mate, we need an uprising against these machines before they put us in human farm tubes
@@OCCNP ??
@@user-zu6ts5fb6g Mr. Anderson. Surprised to see me?
zapdos6244 No
@@zapdos6244 Mr. Anderson, welcome back.
"Who amongst us remembers how this pawn even got to B6?"... Literally summarises the entire game XD
I didn’t even know that pawn existed 😂
I did, but didnt know you could push it
I remember that pawn. It ran off my board!
Because i saw this comment before watching I only looked at the pawn and i still dont know how it got there
I remember a4 after h4, and just that.
AlphaZero: You can’t defeat me
Human: No, but he can
*points to mirror*
More like
AlphaZero: You will lose
Human: Yeah, but she won't
points to mirror
@@orangehatchris is he a sissy boy?
omgggggg i love this comment
czcams.com/video/Mo1jfzS6AOY/video.html
@@sidarthur8706 lmao, exactly
16:13 lmaoo "I know you guys are already freaking out but uuuh... bishop to f4. Yeah, we have to check that out as well" the way he said it i'm dead
I can play chess against myself and get to a draw too. I guess Alphazero is no better than me in terms of net results 🤷♂️
Jokes on you, i can play against myself, and lose with both sides
@Nathan Sindlinger u get mad at yourself for playing like an asshole and then flip the board
I also play against myself too but actually get checkmated idk how it happens
That was the best comment I read. LMFAO
@@3ibad16 AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Carlsen - '' i dont believe in fortresses ''
Alfazero - " i dont believe in carlsen "
Holly sht. O god.....best coment ever!
ROFLMAOOO
Best
This is awesome man😀👍
You wasted a perfect "I don't believe in Magnuses"
21:23 It might be the way to go to make chess you know... You know... You know... I don't know.
LMAO
🤣
Speechcraft: 100
(Alpha 1 pointing a gun at Alpha 2)
Alpha 1: It's a draw
Alpha 2: Always has been.
lol
It’s more like Alpha aiming at a mirror and calling it a draw
The most stunning thing here is that they agreed to a draw on move 33 !!! I was like wait what ? It seemed like they have been playing forever lol
That was a very long and rich game in 33 moves.
Lots of hypothetical tangents, but why not, it was such an amazing game. I wish I knew chess better so that I could appreciate it even more. I hope they never augment human brains with embedded CPUs, it should never be allowed, at least not against an unaltered human.
If both alpha is given information that they are against another alpha, they would have ended in draw before the match even started.
Right that game would have taken me days, or even weeks.
@@strings1984 years you mean
It's so crazy how Alpha moves. Seems so unnatural and yet in every position there are two hundred threats
Alpha moves in mysterious ways
Alpha is kinda scary I think
@@earlingtonthe3rd now imagine if by accident it's given a task to "fix the humanity problem". And it finds a final solution.
It's like an eldritch ballet. I felt such terror when I saw the incredible TRIPLE threat in mid game.
This is art
@@cinegraphics but you would have to train alpha with a dataset first and sadly we lack a dataset on solutions to humanity problems at the moment.
humans: evil AI isn't real, it can't hurt you
AI: *throws pawns violently*
Me: Plays pawn to e4
AlphaZero: Mate in 26
Me: ...
No... not if you play even remotely correct.
@@jagmohansingh2060 It’s a joke dumbass
well you are really gifted to survive alpha for 26 moves. the likes of tal and kasparov have lost in 17 moves
@@sharjah81 you can survive 26 moves pretty easily against any engine, if you know that you only have to survive 26 moons. It would involve a lot of sacrifices in exchange for time
@@pilotavery surviving 26 moves means having an equal game till move 26. any mating sequence will require thinking well ahead and this could be as many as 8 to 10 moves if you are playing against a top player (it could be as less as mate in 1 if you are playing a 1200 player). so if at move 5 the engine has a forced mate in 13 moves against me, I cannot claim I survived 18 moves against the engine: I only survived 5.
I agree what I wrote above contradicts my initial statement.
Agadmator vs Agadmator, the perfect Hello Everyone
😂
You mean - HELLOW!!! everyone
Sorry about that
Sorry about that
"And it was in this position on move 40 that agadmator resigned the game as there is nothing more to do here."
For those of you who figured out the move, you are an excellent agadmator, for those of you who just want to enjoy the show...
There were so many insane lines shown I feel like I just watched 10 games.
WATCHED 3 TIMES TO UNDERSTAND THE LINES WHEN WHITE GOT PIECE DOWN :).. TOO TIRED
"Maybe I will move this pawn someday" is a really simple, nice, funny and spot-on explanation to the way chess is played at pro level nowadays
When I was a kid, I didn't know about castling. I only ever played with my dad. Interestingly, I found that I played a4 and h4 a lot. After learning the standard chess openings and how to play, as I grew older, I thought that I was a stupid player as a kid. But when I saw this video, I suddenly realised I didn't know castling as a kid, and truly alphazero plays a4 and h4 in this situation! I suddenly feel a lot less stupid haha
I think IAs are changing the standar rules of chess, I’ve seen artificial castling or not castling in IA normal games
Can I beat alpha zero if I train hard?
@@pitounefer772 No
"Alpha retreats with the knight" - Me -"that's the type of thing i would have done"
Exactly
lmao
is that username a nazareth reference?
Me too bro
"I have the power of gods"
AlphaZero: The only one that can beat is me, and I can't even do it
Me: loses to Stockfish 1
Stockfish 1 isn't actually THAT easy. It randomly offers you material but is still not easy to checkmate
@@IschmarVI Wait for a free piece, then trade evenly and win an easy end game.
Up to 7 for me. Honestly, I’m proud as fuck
Thomas Castillo IM Eric Rosen: also loses to Stockfish 1
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a Chess rookie, it’s amazing to me how simply moving a pawn forward 1 space was described as a brilliant move.
I'm reminded of the quote from the movie Wargames.... "the only winning move is not to play."
😋 #AlphaZeroIsDeadSC
If you want to analyze with an engine and solve the no-castle problem: play both knights, move both rooks and then return to the starting position
You deserve a medal!
Genius.
I think you can also just turn off castling rights on a position and ask the engine to analyze, but I actually like your version way more
Just move the both kings on move 3 :/
@@romankarabekov7723 You don't get it. gulpowski's proposal gives you a virgin board except that castling is not possible. Moving the king presupposes a pawn move that cannot be undone to achieve the initial position.
7:29 “Here’s where things get crazy.”
I already didn’t understand what was going on.
😂
Off me☠️☠️
xD
It wasn't that hard
the reason this is 23 minutes long is because is because agadmator keeps doing 3 minutes of moves and then saying:"but alpha doesn't fall for this."and going back 3 minutes of moves
I used to play this format of Chess before I learnt to play Chess
When the other schoolkids and I were first learning checkers, for some reason we didn't learn the rule about having to jump when a capture is available. I hate that rule. It makes it less strategic, IMO.
Didn't every indian?
@@rakeshkapoor6019 without knowing the context you are trying to come across as smartass.
@@puremercury it also makes the game end
@@Henrix1998 Checkers is more positional if the player has a choice of capturing.
Playing against alfa be like :
Human: e5...
Alpha: mate in 4...
Alpha0: Mate is imminent.
mate in 347
@@GinjouArmy Defending is futile. You will be mated
Me: Opens with the London system to troll
Alpha: mate in 13
13 moves later
Me: fuck
@@veryInteresting_ Sexbots will be like:
I loved the line "Who are we to argue with Alpha". I'm a Software Engineer - albeit not an AI one - and it's always good to see people accepting that in some fields computers are vastly vastly vastly superiors to humans. They are of course only tools, so we can use them to both do things quicker and better, and sometimes even learn from them.
"We would need to have an entire video just to analyze one of these moves" ... the fact that he can explain this at all is super impressive
#AlphaZeroIsDeadSC 😊
17:30 "who among us remembers how this pawn even got to b6" 😂😂
דני איזנברג ......I want this on a shirt!
I remember how...
Alpha White pushed it
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
You know we've solved chess when the AI offers a draw on the first move
Ishaan Salhotra Haha chess will be solved when white wins 100% since they start with the first move.
@@TheBussyAnnihilator Prove it! No guarantee this is correct.
@@SamuelPearlman All chess engines give white a slight advantage in the analysis because they get to make the first move.
@@TheBussyAnnihilator I agree that that is the case. I disagree that this proves that chess is solvable for a 100% white win.
@@SamuelPearlman Well idk if chess is solvable but it makes sense to me that the side who starts with an advantage before the first move would win everytime
4:20 "Developing the Rook"
This was me when I was a kid
19:29 This sounds like an interesting idea for chess tournament. Let Alpha play Alpha x number of moves to where the game is equal for black and white, then sit the players down and have them go from there.
most complicated game ever, got lost after agadmator start showing a line
And then this maybe happened, but of course it did not, I'm like am I too high or did he just use words to cross my eyes
He really likes side lines. after he comes back from a side line, I already forget what was the starting position.
Definately not the most complicated game
@@Nick-vy3ee Not really 4000. Leela Zero is a much stronger engine than A0 and its currently rated 3441. www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc11-round-3&game=76
You guys have been brainwashed into thinking that A0 is the strongest chess entity. But A0 is not competing in any serius competition, and with no serius hardware. In the CCC championship their hardware is equal for all engines and its a championship that A0 refused to participate.
If you want to see the most complicated games, you have to see LC0 playing against SF10 DEV.
A0 games are complicated yes, but not the most complicated. A0 is not that strong compared to LC0. Not anymore.
NUKE so why isn’t alpha zero considered over 4k to you?
This is what the archetypal "chess game between geniuses" looks like. Almost every move is a super sharp tactical shot. This is wild.
No it's not. It's just a machine playing against a machine, two souless agregates of metal and microchips pretending to play chess.
Would you be in awe to see two machines drawing the perfect score in a powerlifting competition? This is what those games are to me.
Le Cobra, I’ll answer that in a few parts: a direct reply to your question, and then a general response to your comment as a whole, arguing that AlphaZero is interesting as an entity and that the game’s beauty should be independent of who played it.
To your question, actually I would be impressed insofar as I comprehend the magnitude of the robot’s achievement, but I wouldn’t be in awe of the robot’s strength because I have seen stronger robots. Back when extremely powerful machines were invented, like the steam engine and the hydraulic press, everybody was in awe of those machines’ strength, except for religious zealots who felt that humans should not “play god,” and the people whom such machines put at a competitive disadvantage in some industry. I don’t think either of these objections are well-founded; however, I will discuss them if you disagree.
The thing that’s special about AlphaZero is its status as a maximal element under a particular ordering. In the same way that one, especially a child, can be in awe of a blue whale for being the largest animal, or a cheetah (or peregrine falcon) for being the fastest, there is natural allure to AlphaZero as an entity in it of itself. Now, most people grow bored of such things because they realize that the sets they’re considering are arbitrary, which devastates the maximal elements’ universal significance (with plural in the case of a partially order set). However, if you had the opportunity to observe the coldest place in the universe or experience the quietest room, then (provided curiosity hasn’t been stomped out) such childish wonder may be temporarily restored, proving that it’s a natural human inclination rather than a merely childish urge.
Moreover, I’ll argue that a game of chess exists at a platonic level, much like a mathematical truth, and so can (and often should) be evaluated as having some beauty independently of any extrinsic context-that is, context not solely concerning the intrinsic state of the game. This is because the rules and starting position for a game of chess are established a priori, the same as the axioms and rules of inference are established a priori for any formal axiomatic system of deduction. So, there is a strong analogy between positions on a chess board and mathematical theorems, and (importantly!) between *games* and *proofs* of mathematical theorems. Indeed, mathematical truth, established by proof, is often regarded (for good reason) as the ultimate example of platonic objects. And so, if chess is a special case, then surely chess has a strong platonic attribute. Why, then, should a game of chess have an intrinsic evaluation of its beauty? Well, because the game is disconnected from the material world, as a platonic object. Sure, the game might be better regarded in some contexts as a character in a story containing some other context, but that would be an alternative interpretation, as the intrinsic one is always valid (and is often utilized in establishing the game’s character within the context of the storied interpretation).
In light of this, I would like to propose the following analogy contrast the one you provided: Tal vs Larsen (or any number of other human games) is to AlphaZero vs AlphaZero as the Grand Canyon is to Valles Marineris. We are witnessing strength surpassing anything we’ve ever seen before at the advent of new technological advancements. Additionally, the game itself is attacking and sharp, and fought to a draw. I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that there is merit to this game, if there’s merit to any game.
Lol.destroyed
Skittle Scopes, it’s important to respect each other’s opinions in order to maintain a civil discourse. Even though I disagree with Le Cobra, I appreciate that he/she spoke up and shared because it presented me with the opportunity to review my opinion and reevaluate. In the absence of such opportunities, it is more difficult to grow and improve. Therefore, it is bad for everybody to discourage dissenting opinions by shaming them. (Also, just because a response is long doesn’t make it good; Le Cobra could very well come back with a brilliant counter-rebuttal with which I agree. Indeed, perhaps I agree with him/her and simply don’t know it yet!)
@@alexandersanchez9138 alright
you know how some tournaments have the heart rate of each player and it's interesting to see how it fluctuates in difficult situations?
Well, in lieu of that, I'd to see see fan speed in rpms for difficult calculations. Every time my fan goes crazy it seems like it's having an anxiety attack
“Maybe I will push this pawn....... someday.......”
“Tomorrow at 2:30 PM it is.”
And it was in every position that everyone was like "what??"
AlphaZero after the game: Congratulations, you played yourself
I am always amazed by how he memorises all the moves
He has the moves listed in a pgn file in the second screen.
Eventually alpha will get so strong that it will offer a draw on the first move because it sees all of this.
Will get so strong that will analyze opponents and will be able to predict how many moves needed to checkmate him
If chess ever becomes a solved game, then Alpha will eventually offer a draw on the first move, if the a perfect game is drawn, or Alpha will calculate how many moves until forced checkmate, if a perfect game is won by either side.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 Don't think alpha zero actually calculates all the lines or any lines at all. It just automatically knows only the best next move for every possible position (assuming its trained for long enough) so it doesn't actually need to go into depth as for examples stockfish does.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 Actually, Stockfish calculates about 800 million moves per second, And still loses about 9/10 matches against alpha zero and put in mind that alpha zero calculates about 800 thousand move per second. So putting this in perspective, we can clearly observe that the engines calculate useless lines which can look like a sacrifice for them and keep going in the useless lines more and more. while a human brain can notice that this move is useless without analyzing the whole board and all moves till a checkmate. Even tho, an engine is always gonna be better. Who knows after neuralink of elon musk, we may have a chance to beat alpha zero, one day
alpha: what do you see?
alpha: everything ... that's my curse ...
alpha: draw?
alpha: (sighs) okay
"Who are we to argue with Alpha"
-Agadmator 2k19
Ikr we filthy humans won't understand supreme Alpha's thinking XD
4:06
Alpha1 shall argue alpha zeros ;)
The thing is we can t argue with Ai in any other areas not only chess. These is just the start i think. In short time(10-15 years) the ai will solve the chess.
hahahahhaha
I would love to see normal alpha vs one of these alphas that can’t castle to see if it can draw castling alpha
daaamn thats a good idea you have there,i also want to know the results
I'm pretty sure castling alpha would destroy the non-castling alpha. They're of the same strenght and one of them has an advantage.
@@tomasjosefpiano8902 yes, everybody is pretty sure that's the case, but wouldn't it be awesome to know for sure that if that was the case. I mean these computers are teaching us how to wipe our own asses. Think about how much they are changing the game of chess. So since we can ask the question about castling, we should ask the question.
You would have to add code to the non castling one so that while it can't castle itself, it takes into consideration the fact that the other ai can and incorporates it into the game.
@@tomasjosefpiano8902 here also one alpha has an advantage - the white one, as it has the first move.
You showed that incredibly well. Loved how you explored the lines. Had to remind myself several times that we were still exploring a line but it felt strong every time you returned to the main game so was really enjoyable to watch. This lvl of chess feels like the players exited the known heights of the traditional game and re entered the chess universe at another lvl that feels like it's playing five dimensions at once.
#AlphaZeroIsDeadSC 😊
"I can do this all day"
"Yeah I know"
4:05 "who are we to argue with alpha?"
That's exactly what alpha wants you to say xD
What's wrong with that tho
Alpha zero be like:
Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary.
@Thomas Kaprielian me
@Thomas Kaprielian ..um... Tai Lung said that ... I think
Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary.
Result: Draw
I love your commentary with all of the variations every move and I love that you have a great understanding of chess. This has helped me too be better. Thank you😍😍😍😍
When watching this game I am reminded of a quote by Bird about Steinitz. Take the pieces off the board and them in a closed bag, shake them vigorously for 2 minutes, and then drop them all back onto the board from a height of 2 feet. This is the playing style of AlphaZero
This variant is called “Indian chess” in Russia. It’s quite popular there.
It is the way chess was originally played. That's why Indian Chess
Isn't there something in Indian chess about the king being able to move like a knight at some point?
@@jasonanno3881
The king can make a knight move once in a game, known as Indian castling
@@abhir7823 wow that is so much cooler!
@@jasonanno3881 And also even in the ordinary game once checked though you haven't moved the king, you can't castle. That's hard as fuck.
according to the lack of 'spoiler: alpha zero won' comments it will be a draw
That's some Alphazero reasoning there.
@@user-vo8zx1db6m its not obvious
@@philippfrogel9355 it... should be. By definition, something playing perfectly cannot lose. Any game with no random elements and the potential to draw will always end in a draw if both players play optimally. To Alpha, chess is as simple as Tic-tac-toe (or Knots and Crosses if you prefer); any competent TTT player should never lose, just as any perfect chess player should never lose. But if neither player can lose, that by definition results in a draw.
@@researchinbreeder its not obvious for it being not even true in general. you don't use any properties of the game and say at perfect play its always a draw. i could create a game where at perfect play of both players one player - lets say the white one - still always wins. also we have no clue how the absolute strongest play could look like, since chess hasn't (and will never) be fully explored. maybe white has forced checkmate in 256, who knows? ;D unlikely though, but possible. and this term of perfect play just refers to the strongest one we know at the time, so this is no absolute truth we can work with
@@philippfrogel9355 the properties of the individual game don't matter aside from having the potential for a draw to occur and not involving uncertainty/randomness. Chess may be complex, but its still a closed system with a finite number of possible meaningful moves (even if to a layperson it looks limitless). This means that it becomes possible to calculate what perfect play looks like, hence why analysis engines can exist at all. Perfection in this context is self-evident; any system with finite possibilities and without random elements will always have perfect play, and if there is a way for the game to draw then two players who always make the perfect move should always result in a draw. It's mathematics.
This and the 1472 match are the best videos of this channel. Goes to show how many unexplored dimensions there are on chess. It's amazing the journey of the game and how modyfing a simple contingency (castling) turns around everything
“And it is as of this moment that both Alpha’s are on their own.” I had to replay that one....
This game literally made my head hurt
there have been alot of crazy lines in chess, but " maybe i will push this pawn someday " is the craziest line ever 😂
Lmao
"who amongst us remembers how this pawn even got to b6?" was good too
@@Tedisdeaad true 😂
4:44 "playing in both sides of the board. Awesome stuff." We saw what you did here.
I'd like to see the really dumb things Alpha probably tried while learning haha
Id actually like to know what or “how” he thinks, if that makes any sense
Can I beat alpha zero if I train hard?
@@pitounefer772 no
@@carloscogollo805 deep rl techniques. I bet its based on monte carlo tree search you can find it all in deepmind papers probably
you can just look at your games lmao (sorry)
Fantastic video. I'm not good at chess, but I don't have to be to follow and appreciate your commentary.
oh hey it's taran from lmg nice
Didn't expect to see you here...
A wild Taran the Macro King appeared.
alpha: draw?
alpha: okay.
alpha: let's eat some humans. i'm buying.
alpha: okay.
That’s how it starts taran.... 78 videos later and ur an avid chessplayer
It’s such a complicated and amazing game. Just move after move of things I wouldn’t even consider playing. Hanging a piece for compensation like 5 moves down the line? Incredible stuff.
you really did a good job of explaining how brilliant this game was
Respect for not only not getting lost in those moves, unlike us mere mortals, but also remembering what the lines are and explaining the reason for almost everything.
As a good chess player I never felt that insignificant watching a game
Yeah
Whats your elo?
"alpha is not about to be tricked by the other alpha"
-Agadmator 2k19
16:30 *"King has to now go for a walk"* - made me laugh so hard
Watch Kasparov's immortal. You'll get an idea of king walk
Just add two moves: 3-Ke1-e2 3..Ke8-d7 and 4-Ke2-e1 and 4..Kd7-e8 reaching the same position and you can start analysing with an engine much earlier in the game
#alphazeroisdeadsc 🤘
10:54 "... that's.. not a capture."
excellent analysis as always, Agad! HAHAHAHA
i wanted alpha vs alpha and here is it - thank you so much!
That was absolute chaos. I can usually follow your videos despite not knowing much about chess, but this game was something else
AI chess looks like tic tac toe with extra steps
00:00 And it was in this position I laughed hysterically as there were no reasons for me as a human being to actually keep up with all the lines.
We humans: create tensions on one side of board.
Alpha zero: Attack!!!!
Pieces on board: but which side sir?
Alpha zero: *ALL SIDES!*
This was fun. Your commentary was funny and insightful. The comments were funny as hell. The game was fascinating. Your side lines were instructive. Outstanding ...top marks
Love seeing a brilliant chess player become the best in the world at something other than chess - best chess CZcamsr. By a long shot!
Humanity: let's play without castling to avoid engine lines
Also humanity: alpha vs alpha without castling