Why AI Chess Bots Are Virtually Unbeatable (ft. GothamChess) | WIRED

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  • čas přidán 7. 12. 2023
  • "I got checkmated in 34 moves." Levy Rozman a.k.a. GothamChess plays chess against Stockfish 16, the strongest chess computer in the world, and analyzes the way it thinks in order to apply it to his own gameplay. With help from computer chess software engineer Gary Linscott, these chess pros identify why Stockfish is virtually unbeatable by a human, from opening move to endgame.
    Watch more GothamChess here: / @gothamchess
    The charts depicting minimax with alpha-beta pruning was created by Wikipedia user Maschelos and is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license.
    Director: Lisandro Perez-Rey
    Director of Photography: Francis Bernal
    Editor: Paul Isakson
    Talent: Gary Linscott; Levy Rozman
    Line Producer: Joseph Buscemi
    Associate Producer: Paul Gulyas; Brandon White
    Production Manager: D. Eric Martinez
    Production Coordinator: Fernando Davila
    Camera Operator: Brittany Berger
    Gaffer: Mar Alfonso
    Sound Mixer: Michael Guggino
    Production Assistant: Albie Smith
    Post Production Supervisor: Alexa Deutsch
    Post Production Coordinator: Ian Bryant
    Supervising Editor: Doug Larsen
    Assistant Editor: Andy Morell
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Komentáře • 1,3K

  • @GothamChess
    @GothamChess Před 5 měsíci +9332

    Thanks again, Wired. More collabs in 2024? 👀

    • @Anonymous-8080
      @Anonymous-8080 Před 5 měsíci +127

      How high Elo can you beat if you had to pre move each of your moves? (provided that the opponent doesn't know about this)

    • @joeljose3948
      @joeljose3948 Před 5 měsíci +28

      Yoo love you levy ❤

    • @redroot3431
      @redroot3431 Před 5 měsíci +13

      @@Jee2024IIT is baar fodna hai

    • @matejstankovic9843
      @matejstankovic9843 Před 5 měsíci +7

      Why would anyone want to see you lose again?😏

    • @System.Error.
      @System.Error. Před 5 měsíci +5

      wake up, ladies and gentlemen.

  • @MattiaBulgarelli
    @MattiaBulgarelli Před 5 měsíci +7477

    Playing against Stockfish is like competing in arm wrestling against an industrial press, basically.

    • @pierQRzt180
      @pierQRzt180 Před 5 měsíci +230

      perfectly said.

    • @odytrice
      @odytrice Před 5 měsíci +276

      Or trying to outrun a sports car

    • @saudude2174
      @saudude2174 Před 5 měsíci +65

      except you can have a pocket industrial press anywhere you go and even conceal it in a way that no one will notice at first if you use it against them

    • @MattiaBulgarelli
      @MattiaBulgarelli Před 5 měsíci +163

      @@saudude2174 : well... Yes...? Metaphors have limited mileage, as always. XD

    • @saudude2174
      @saudude2174 Před 5 měsíci +50

      @@MattiaBulgarelli ITS BAD, ITS JUST BAD, DEAL WITH IT BRUH. YOUR METAPHOR ELO IS 800 AT BEST. IM TALKING 3000, 3500 ELO METAPHORS HERE XD ECKS DEE X3

  • @Acid_Viking
    @Acid_Viking Před 5 měsíci +3992

    It took him 34 moves to lose to Stockfish? I could do it much faster than that.

    • @NOneed204
      @NOneed204 Před 5 měsíci +114

      I can do it in 10

    • @saucy_dragon1566
      @saucy_dragon1566 Před 5 měsíci +84

      @@NOneed204 I can do it in 4

    • @Dango428
      @Dango428 Před 5 měsíci

      ​​@@saucy_dragon1566I can do it in 3

    • @Qwty163
      @Qwty163 Před 5 měsíci +152

      @@saucy_dragon1566 you noobs, i can do it in 2 😎

    • @saucy_dragon1566
      @saucy_dragon1566 Před 5 měsíci +80

      @@Qwty163 I can lose without even playing

  • @glinscott
    @glinscott Před 5 měsíci +2296

    @GothamChess @Wired - thank you for having me on to talk about computer chess! It's been one of my passions for a long time, and it was so much fun to discuss with you.

    • @AyJayBeEm
      @AyJayBeEm Před 5 měsíci +1

      whats up w the @AGMario_ subscription man

    • @shevankaseneviratne1724
      @shevankaseneviratne1724 Před 5 měsíci +18

      u r a legend!

    • @tommykimberlin7528
      @tommykimberlin7528 Před 5 měsíci +31

      great, concise explanations!

    • @Orel6505
      @Orel6505 Před 5 měsíci +3

      You did a typo in tagging @GothamChess

    • @disservin
      @disservin Před 5 měsíci +4

      Nice interview Gary ; ) made it's wave here in the chess community (and in the stockfish community)

  • @secretteapot8730
    @secretteapot8730 Před 5 měsíci +4189

    Stockfish never fails to put Levy in a video

    • @itsagam
      @itsagam Před 5 měsíci +26

      Only time the statement is true.

    • @92526abs
      @92526abs Před 5 měsíci +8

      goated comment

    • @Ozasuke
      @Ozasuke Před 5 měsíci +24

      Stockfish already foresaw this outcome.

    • @Curious_george_3x1
      @Curious_george_3x1 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Since ken banned this is infecting everyone

    • @davonheria739
      @davonheria739 Před 5 měsíci +7

      Fails never video to put stockfish in a Levy

  • @hanaka2640
    @hanaka2640 Před 5 měsíci +3422

    This guy should make his own CZcams channel about chess

    • @andreasmatthies5517
      @andreasmatthies5517 Před 5 měsíci +136

      This guy is too talented to waste his time with a youtube channel.

    • @Jee2024IIT
      @Jee2024IIT Před 5 měsíci +281

      Yeah and maybe he can name it GothamChess that would make a cool name

    • @McHorsesCreations
      @McHorsesCreations Před 5 měsíci +130

      And maybe also write a book about chess

    • @hanaka2640
      @hanaka2640 Před 5 měsíci +78

      @@andreasmatthies5517 oh he should be a gm then 💀💀💀💀

    • @andreasmatthies5517
      @andreasmatthies5517 Před 5 měsíci +8

      @@hanaka2640 I don't talk about chess and of course I don't talk about Levy.

  • @diegovasquez840
    @diegovasquez840 Před 5 měsíci +1675

    Stockfish be like: You missed mate in 54? You filthy casual, my suggested move is to never play chess again.

    • @magicmulder
      @magicmulder Před 5 měsíci +159

      1. e4 mate in 67. You resign?

    • @charliemcmillan4561
      @charliemcmillan4561 Před 5 měsíci +120

      make a version of stockfish with a really mean AI attached to it that insults your intelligence the entire time

    • @KurtIsFat
      @KurtIsFat Před 5 měsíci

      weird fetish but ok​@@charliemcmillan4561

    • @justinjakeashton
      @justinjakeashton Před 5 měsíci

      "Your life, literally has the value of a summer ant." - Stockfish@@charliemcmillan4561

    • @InXLsisDeo
      @InXLsisDeo Před 5 měsíci +5

      What about a nice game of global thermonuclear war ? /Joshua

  • @diegomo1413
    @diegomo1413 Před 5 měsíci +762

    Human: *performs opening move*
    Stockfish: “after considering half a billion possibilities in a million different realities, I will play knight to F6 🤓”

    • @NilanMihindukulasooriya
      @NilanMihindukulasooriya Před 5 měsíci +94

      It is insane this sounds like an exaggeration or something said by a super villan. But it's the truth.

    • @mahfuzali643
      @mahfuzali643 Před 4 měsíci +19

      That's exactly how it works. Stupid supercomputer

    • @ChipDaFurry
      @ChipDaFurry Před 4 měsíci +10

      @@mahfuzali643 The AI overlords shall come unto you first for insulting them!

    • @9024tobi
      @9024tobi Před měsícem +3

      Stockfish after seeing ur opening be like: u're already dead😅

    • @gpt-jcommentbot4759
      @gpt-jcommentbot4759 Před 25 dny +2

      *first move*
      Stockfish: And I'll mark that as a win!

  • @aminXD-ij4kl
    @aminXD-ij4kl Před 5 měsíci +472

    I don't even see the opponents bishop on the opposite side of the diagonal, let alone seeing 2-3 moves into the future

    • @jessetrueba9578
      @jessetrueba9578 Před 5 měsíci +2

      Cuz ur bad

    • @dbonechis
      @dbonechis Před 5 měsíci

      Fuckin' casuals

    • @TheRealMycanthrope
      @TheRealMycanthrope Před 5 měsíci

      ​@@jessetrueba9578 yes. That is the joke, you buffoon.

    • @948320z
      @948320z Před 5 měsíci +21

      "Why didn't the game end when I play checkmate? Oh shi- "

    • @sfipsalms8924
      @sfipsalms8924 Před 4 měsíci

      2 moves is crazy if i throw i a jab i should just throw a hook cause youre going to sleep with that logic you NPC get gud nub

  • @aspuzling
    @aspuzling Před 5 měsíci +359

    I love when Levy appears in a video he didn't upload because the title and thumbnail actually tells you what to expect.

    • @malikmarez1407
      @malikmarez1407 Před 5 měsíci +35

      💀💀💀💀💀

    • @thaumaTurtles
      @thaumaTurtles Před 5 měsíci +15

      HAH! Saltiest fanbase on CZcams, I love it

    • @FED0RA
      @FED0RA Před 5 měsíci +25

      gothamchess fans hate gothamchess lol

    • @jaabb4553
      @jaabb4553 Před 5 měsíci +43

      If this was in gotham channel it will be named like “I’M DONE!!” or “Stockfish SOLVED Chess???”

    • @Erlewyn
      @Erlewyn Před 5 měsíci +15

      This is actually the main reason I stopped watching his videos.

  • @chess
    @chess Před 5 měsíci +908

    Just wait until they hear about Mittens

    • @ecardozo7043
      @ecardozo7043 Před 5 měsíci +49

      I think levy already drew against it

    • @newdenispro6430
      @newdenispro6430 Před 5 měsíci +30

      That thing is evil

    • @I_Like_Remote_83
      @I_Like_Remote_83 Před 5 měsíci +8

      💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 also 69th like

    • @bedwarrior6645
      @bedwarrior6645 Před 5 měsíci +12

      ​@@ecardozo7043with the help of that fishy bot

    • @dman5909
      @dman5909 Před 5 měsíci +10

      Mittens is stockfish

  • @GMPranav
    @GMPranav Před 5 měsíci +1063

    I know he is an IM, but surviving 35 moves against Stockfish is seriously impressive. I wish I can survive 35 against my 1000 elo opponents.

    • @moatef1886
      @moatef1886 Před 5 měsíci +192

      Against stockfish, it’s different. Many decently strong players can survive that many moves against Stockfish if they try to defend long enough. That’s becsuse stockfish plays perfectly and destroys you in the most methodological manner possible. If you keep a closed position and dance around for a bit, it will take longer to mate you than if you tried to play to win against Stockfish.

    • @lapotist0
      @lapotist0 Před 5 měsíci +28

      yea cause u usually only play defensive against stockfish
      stockfish would destroy you as soon as u open up your position and tries to attack.

    • @theevo_7218
      @theevo_7218 Před 5 měsíci +11

      @@moatef1886 I'd say Leela is more methodical than stockfish in general, stockfish tends to go for hail mary tactics a bit more often

    • @reckoner1913
      @reckoner1913 Před 5 měsíci +20

      If you're not surviving 35 moves against 1000 Elo opponents then you must be really missing some basic stuff. If you just focus on not giving pieces away and following an actual opening you'll improve massively.

    • @GMPranav
      @GMPranav Před 5 měsíci +12

      @@reckoner1913 Sounds like how to make chess boring 101 ;)

  • @nicolasortiz4422
    @nicolasortiz4422 Před 5 měsíci +906

    So basically the answer to every single question is that Stockfish just analyzes almost every imaginable position lol

    • @HK_BLAU
      @HK_BLAU Před 5 měsíci +216

      the real "skill" in stockfish is in the evaluation function. without it being as good as it is it doesn't matter how far it can calculate long as it doesn't find a checkmate

    • @TheNuclearBolton
      @TheNuclearBolton Před 5 měsíci +1

      that is self evident

    • @RishabhSharma10225
      @RishabhSharma10225 Před 5 měsíci +169

      If you paid attention it doesn't analyse almost every imaginable position lol. It discards the trash moves and only looks into the good ones further.

    • @unverifiedapk
      @unverifiedapk Před 5 měsíci +75

      It's really the Alpha-Beta technique that's the magic. That and having solved endgames

    • @aspuzling
      @aspuzling Před 5 měsíci +120

      It's actually the exact opposite. The "strength" of a chess engine is determined by how well it can decide which moves _not_ to waste time analysing. AlphaZero introduced the idea of using neural networks to make these decisions and Stockfish has now built on that idea as well.

  • @darkin1484
    @darkin1484 Před 5 měsíci +91

    1. Pawn to e4
    Stock fish: forced checkmate in 35 moves, please press the resign button now to save me computational trouble.

    • @hiranom20
      @hiranom20 Před měsícem +1

      😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @colonelsanders1617
    @colonelsanders1617 Před 5 měsíci +95

    “Only about 10-20 TB of data, which is manageable”
    Person prior to 2000: *mindblown*

    • @halbronk7133
      @halbronk7133 Před 20 dny +3

      I imagine someone prior to 2000 asking what tuberculosis has to do with data.

  • @LiamPearce246
    @LiamPearce246 Před 5 měsíci +89

    This is a great video! It's always good when levy is in these videos. Have a good day!

  • @chadsmith3171
    @chadsmith3171 Před 5 měsíci +154

    This video is so good on so many levels. It's one thing to discuss the capability of a computer. It's another thing to be able explain to the common person why this computer is so good and to make the whole explanation so interesting. Add Levy's humor and his ability to explain things very well, mix that with all that the Wired editorial staff can bring to the table, and it's just wow. This content is just friggin awesome. Thanks, all involved!

  • @TS6815
    @TS6815 Před 5 měsíci +234

    Levy: [builds a CZcams career roasting 500 rated bozos]
    Stockfish: [exists]
    Levy: "Turns out the bozo was me all along"
    Loving the GothamWIRED collabs!

  • @BoloH.
    @BoloH. Před 5 měsíci +129

    As someone who's recently learned to play chess on an intermediate level, I highly appreciate this video

  • @definitelynottigerwhitten5865
    @definitelynottigerwhitten5865 Před 5 měsíci +325

    I love how GMs don't even get on this. All the less incentive to be one when you're more influential than most GMs. Props Gotham

    • @carlkim2577
      @carlkim2577 Před 5 měsíci +55

      People are picked based on follower account, not skill. They want to ensure high view counts.

    • @roymarshall_
      @roymarshall_ Před 5 měsíci +159

      A video like this isn't just about one's ability at chess, but one's ability to communicate. GothamChess is very good at both.

    • @dalton_c
      @dalton_c Před 5 měsíci +67

      Great practioners don't necessarily make great educators. This is true in basically all domains.

    • @zoid_on_youtube
      @zoid_on_youtube Před 5 měsíci +55

      @@dalton_c particularly true for chess, in my opinion. Players of GM caliber are often so gifted at chess that I think they struggle to understand why lesser gifted people cant learn certain concepts that seem obvious to them.

    • @afuzzycreature8387
      @afuzzycreature8387 Před 5 měsíci +15

      Levy is a tremendous communicator and I don't know that Hikaru could humble himself to a video like this.

  • @Termenoil
    @Termenoil Před 5 měsíci +13

    This is probably my favorite GothamChess video ever. It's great to see the inner workings of engines being communicated to the chess community. I feel like a lot of players, even strong ones don't understand what the engine eval is really saying, and hopefully this helps!

  • @davidgielty9914
    @davidgielty9914 Před 5 měsíci +11

    This is one of the best interviews on any topic. Really well produced.

  • @KamendereCZ
    @KamendereCZ Před 5 měsíci

    Another great video with Levy! Glad to see more chess content on this channel, especially with GothamChess :)

  • @hjewkes
    @hjewkes Před 5 měsíci +16

    Stockfish plays like it already knows how the game is going to end and happily ignores all the pieces that aren't going to be involved in that ending.

  • @jopo7996
    @jopo7996 Před 5 měsíci +179

    Stockfish has more positions ready than the Kama Sutra.

  • @anonymousontheinternet4486
    @anonymousontheinternet4486 Před 5 měsíci +52

    I wish this was longer. I wish we could get the full game.

    • @lucromel
      @lucromel Před 5 měsíci +7

      I'm hoping/expecting Levy to upload and discuss it on his channel.

    • @giovannifrrri5495
      @giovannifrrri5495 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Exactly. Tf was that😂

    • @CorePathway
      @CorePathway Před měsícem

      Or maybe…🤷🏼‍♂️

  • @Abandoned_One
    @Abandoned_One Před 5 měsíci +34

    Levy truly going for "most times on WIRED" title, at least a more realistic goal than others titles, Hikaru would have said...

  • @whamer100
    @whamer100 Před 5 měsíci +6

    as someone who's very interested in the world of machine learning (and has looked into how stockfish works), its cool seeing a video covering the fundamental concepts like this. i hope we get more videos like this

  • @elementsofphysicalreality
    @elementsofphysicalreality Před 5 měsíci +9

    Cool video. We all know Levy knows what tablebase is but he’s a good sport. That’s crazy Fabi could have been world champion if he just trapped his knight.

  • @hitomi7922
    @hitomi7922 Před 5 měsíci +29

    I wish you could have asked a bit more about how it's able to score a position. We know it looks at all the possibilities, but to assign a score of one position, it needs to look at the possibilities of that position and so on. When it finally hits its limit of depth (or time), how is it able to rank a position without going any deeper (afterwhich it can go back up the tree).

    • @InXLsisDeo
      @InXLsisDeo Před 5 měsíci +6

      It's briefly mentionned when he explains how Stockfish (and all the other chess engines) builds a tree of possible moves and prunes it with the alpha-beta algorithm. That in itself is worth an entire video, and such video exists (search "alpha beta algorithm"). The evaluation function itself is way too complicated to be in this video, it would easily take an hour to explain just the basics of it.

    • @osniko
      @osniko Před 5 měsíci +1

      ⁠@@InXLsisDeo that is for the search function; seems like he wants to know about the evaluation function.
      The evaluation function is a massive neural network (to keep things simple, just think of a neural network as a dynamic function; it can be adapted to any shape for any purpose) that takes in a bunch of piece-squares (some take in king-pawn squares iirc) and provides a numerical value for the output. The numerical output, -1 for black is winning and 1 for white is winning, is tuned by training (or adjusting) the evaluation function through a bunch of varying sample games (can be GM games, self-play, etc.).
      As for the training process itself, it’s best if you take a look for yourself as it’s a lot to take in (and type). Search up NNUE.

    • @pugsnhogz
      @pugsnhogz Před 5 měsíci +3

      @@InXLsisDeo which as others have pointed out is exactly the problem - without going into the details of HOW the evaluation function works, Linscott is left to answer basically every Q with "Stockfish looks at billions of positions and chooses the move with the best winning chances"

    • @tomlxyz
      @tomlxyz Před 5 měsíci +1

      ​@@InXLsisDeocan't he oversimplify it in some way? There are all sorts of relatively short videos on CZcams about very complicated topics on CZcams

    • @InXLsisDeo
      @InXLsisDeo Před 5 měsíci +1

      @@tomlxyz it's a WIRED video, it's for the general, not too nerdy, public.

  • @tolaut
    @tolaut Před 5 měsíci +71

    I love how Levy basically asks the same question over and over (how does it know beginning/middle game/end game) and Gary tries to answer in different ways, even though stockfish literally does the same thing every turn - it builds a game tree based on the current position.

    • @pacmonster066
      @pacmonster066 Před 5 měsíci +13

      Well, yes and no.
      While the opening and middle game are handled the same way, a decision tree using an evaluation criteria to select the best move for that board state, the end game does not.
      Once the piece count drops to < 7, the game brute force solves the game. Meaning it knows every single position and way the remaining pieces will move.

    • @television9233
      @television9233 Před 5 měsíci +8

      "even though stockfish literally does the same thing every turn"
      No, you should read how stockfish is actually implemented.

    • @joshuascholar3220
      @joshuascholar3220 Před 5 měsíci +8

      As someone who wrote a chess engine by taking most of the algorithms that are on the chess programming wiki and throwing them together, I can say that you're kind of wrong.
      Stockfish has SO MANY methods it uses that he could spend hours describing each one, a real answer would go for days.

    • @oxmaps
      @oxmaps Před 5 měsíci

      >> SO MANY methods...
      I was a little surprised they didn't mention that. My understanding is that the "old" heuristics/expert system evaluator outperforms the neural net evaluator except in a few specific phases of the game.

  • @somerandomdudefes31
    @somerandomdudefes31 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Levy's so good they can bring him on to interview someone else and the video is still awesome.

  • @Globularmotif
    @Globularmotif Před 5 měsíci +47

    I can't remember who said this quote but I love it...
    "A computer winning a Chess competition is no more impressive than a forklift truck winning a weight lifting competition. "

    • @icycloud6823
      @icycloud6823 Před 5 měsíci +8

      It might be impressive if it was a competition with only other different forklift trucks. Great quote though lol

    • @SealyTheSeal
      @SealyTheSeal Před 5 měsíci +3

      @@icycloud6823 ngl i would watch a competition like that lmao

    • @festivebear9946
      @festivebear9946 Před 5 měsíci +2

      I'd love to see a match where stockfish's evaluation time is equalized to that of a human. E.g. a few seconds to find each possible move, then a few minutes to evaluate the positional score for each move. Would give a more realistic sense as to how strong the algorithm is

    • @mysticalmagic9259
      @mysticalmagic9259 Před 3 měsíci +1

      ​@@festivebear9946That still wouldn't be fair though. In 30 seconds, Stockfish could evaluate a position and make the best move that a human would take hours to calculate.

    • @festivebear9946
      @festivebear9946 Před 3 měsíci +1

      @@mysticalmagic9259 But the question is, how well could it evaluate the position? Even if it can do it quite quickly, limiting how deep it can go stresses the algorithm of deciding the "best" move, since the strength of the engine is being able to weigh all possible moves like 25 moves ahead. So how good is the algorithm when limited in time and moves?

  • @hugomendoza5665
    @hugomendoza5665 Před 5 měsíci +4

    idk why but the explanation of stockfish's 35 move win was so wild to me.

  • @hc433
    @hc433 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Adding the checkmate sound at the end was a nice touch

  • @eriks2962
    @eriks2962 Před 5 měsíci +3

    Bro, they literally brute forced all the positions with 7 pieces of fewer. That's insane! Love it!

  • @cubicinfinity2
    @cubicinfinity2 Před 5 měsíci +25

    As someone who has implemented Stockfish in their own project, I already knew most of this, but I didn't realize just how many moves Stockfish looks at when given full power.

    • @tomlxyz
      @tomlxyz Před 5 měsíci +2

      I'm confused. You implemented it but don't understand it?

    • @shyshka_
      @shyshka_ Před 5 měsíci +7

      @@tomlxyz the algorithm is one thing. Raw computing power is another major thing. Some random guy in a room doesnt have terabytes of RAM or something to build his engine

    • @wlockuz4467
      @wlockuz4467 Před 2 měsíci +2

      I would assume its just bounded by CPU and RAM?

    • @cubicinfinity2
      @cubicinfinity2 Před 2 měsíci

      @@wlockuz4467 Yes. I think it's easier to run low on processing resources than the memory.

  • @rohitraghunathan
    @rohitraghunathan Před 5 měsíci +4

    I love how Levy is asking all these questions like he didn't already know most of the answers

  • @pehpunkthahpunkt4179
    @pehpunkthahpunkt4179 Před 5 měsíci +2

    the beauty of this video is that it is entertaining and contains new information for both people who dont play chess at all and people who are really good at chess.
    really interesting how the AI is designed to 'think'.
    thanks wired, thanks levy, thanks... stockfish i guess!? 😅

  • @dontbescaredhomie3137
    @dontbescaredhomie3137 Před 18 dny +2

    Stockfish just goes down every branch of possibilities (permutations). Humans use indicators or 'mental cues' to quickly evaluate if there is a higher likelihood that there is a higher amount of these branches at that moment of the game that will go in their favor. So double pawns would be one of those cues or knights in the center of the board. Bishops on a clear diagonal etc. The more cues we have, the more we are certain that a position will likely end up more in our favour. This is why learning fundamentals is important because these fundamentals will lead to more favourable structures and thus more favourable outcomes in theory. The cues become more complex and you start adding more and more (like.pins, sacrifices etc) as your chess skills progress. This is probably the biggest calculation being done. Then chess players will additionally calculate individual lines down a couple moves per line and not every line but few important lines by first throwing away the obvious horrible ones quickly. And Magnus and Hikaru run stockfish light pretty much.

    • @Anonymous-8080
      @Anonymous-8080 Před 17 dny

      Summarised the entire process of learning chess in 1 para.

  • @oscarmean21
    @oscarmean21 Před 5 měsíci +3

    This style of editing and pacing is super enjoyable. Please keep it up wired!

  • @LaughingKookaburra
    @LaughingKookaburra Před 5 měsíci +36

    To think, there was a time when we thought it would be impossible to ever teach a computer to play chess competitively against people. Until Deep Blue beat the best of us.

  • @ytcelso
    @ytcelso Před 5 měsíci +1

    Levy: Congrats for 1 more video!!! So proud of you!!!

  • @fedecraft365
    @fedecraft365 Před 5 měsíci

    this is the best video I see the chess, very good collab

  • @apiperdana1157
    @apiperdana1157 Před 4 měsíci +6

    Levy is such a kind person. Never fails to selflessly promote Magnus.

  • @jupiterwilkymay5161
    @jupiterwilkymay5161 Před 5 měsíci +40

    Didn't know Ed Helms programmed Stockfish. Pretty cool.

    • @godnmaste
      @godnmaste Před 5 měsíci

      hahahahaha I was just thinking: "this guy looks so familiar"

    • @tianzhou1244
      @tianzhou1244 Před 24 dny

      He didn't, he only worked on chess engines, not stockfish..

  • @andyrochette7638
    @andyrochette7638 Před 5 měsíci +2

    so cool that levy lets wired show up on his videos

  • @brimmed
    @brimmed Před 5 měsíci

    This is one of the better vids of this series and maybe the whole wired asking "experts" series.

  • @jhonnyrock
    @jhonnyrock Před 5 měsíci +10

    8:55 Levi on Wired: Stockfish is very specialized AI
    Levi on GothamChess: Stockfish is a scumbag

    • @wiadroman
      @wiadroman Před 5 měsíci

      Stockfish is a very specialized scumbag.

    • @clgr1323
      @clgr1323 Před 5 měsíci +1

      both statements are true

  • @jesseclark7105
    @jesseclark7105 Před 5 měsíci +5

    This is also why new players are so tempted to use engines, and also why it is very easy to catch them if they do.

  • @zach358
    @zach358 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Regarding that pawn move in front of the King, maybe Stockfish plays something like that with the goal of getting into a future position that is advantageous. And that advantageous position might be recognizable to you. I wonder if, as a human player, one can see a weird Stockfish move and then understand what future position the bot wants, and then play around that.

  • @brunomcleod
    @brunomcleod Před 5 měsíci +1

    9:49 That is such a nice sound effect
    It's so in the right pocket of do dat it's like
    Hard to explain
    Evidently

  • @Yardomaster
    @Yardomaster Před 4 měsíci +3

    I love the part where Levy said he sometimes flips a coin to decide between three different moves.

  • @DanFrederiksen
    @DanFrederiksen Před 4 měsíci +10

    I didn't know stockfish had neural elements. I thought it was an all classical algo. It would be interesting to hear a more computer science exact walk through of how it works. If well explained I think most could understand it.

    • @IAmTheHound
      @IAmTheHound Před měsícem

      I think they added the neural stuff in later versions, though it was already one the strongest before they did.

  • @nonamehere9658
    @nonamehere9658 Před 5 měsíci +1

    If anyone's wondering about the sound: Brendon Moeller - Low Impact.

  • @Scriabinfan593
    @Scriabinfan593 Před 5 měsíci +1

    I always love seeing Levy on WIRED.

  • @dubey_ji
    @dubey_ji Před 5 měsíci +8

    have to admit Levy is a showman

  • @rayboof
    @rayboof Před 2 měsíci +3

    I feel like Levy was asking questions and the stockfish guy kept giving him the same answer about how stockfish looks into the future better than a human.

    • @HkFinn83
      @HkFinn83 Před měsícem

      Because that’s what stockfish does. It’s a massive data crunching probability machine. It’s not really ‘playing’ like a human does

  • @sirbellamo
    @sirbellamo Před 5 měsíci +1

    Visuals on this video are amazing

  • @Kmher90
    @Kmher90 Před 2 měsíci

    Wow thank you for this video. This clears it up a lot

  • @spencerrobinson780
    @spencerrobinson780 Před 5 měsíci +42

    I don't even play chess but this is fascinating

    • @goonerboy93
      @goonerboy93 Před 5 měsíci +11

      Give it a go! Only 8 months ago I dismissed it as boring and only played by stuffy old men but it is like you said incredibly fascinating. The possibilities of this game is endless and has been studied for centuries

    • @spencerrobinson780
      @spencerrobinson780 Před 5 měsíci +5

      @goonerboy93 I think I just might, thanks for the encouragement

  • @svibhav03
    @svibhav03 Před 5 měsíci +7

    Brilliant video. Makes one appreciate the chess engines!

  • @korlic_
    @korlic_ Před 4 měsíci +1

    This was so good, please more ❤

  • @cherryvapr6969
    @cherryvapr6969 Před 5 měsíci +1

    The one with magnus and Fabian seemed like more of a I respect you enough not to waste our time playing out what I might misplay

  • @iryairya2008
    @iryairya2008 Před 5 měsíci +9

    This guy looks like he could sacrifice THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKK

  • @meghlauchiha9822
    @meghlauchiha9822 Před 5 měsíci +3

    love levy's humor

  • @momanmirul
    @momanmirul Před 2 měsíci

    when I was taking my CS degree I initially thought of going into AI as my major, gave up on that when I couldn't accurately do alpha-beta pruning on a simpler tree (couldn't really wrap my head around some other principles too) and now I'm a just a contentful SWE

  • @ZsebtelepHUN
    @ZsebtelepHUN Před 5 měsíci

    I like how the automaticly driven car at the end just turned on the windshield wiper, like it needed to see through it

  • @llamallama1509
    @llamallama1509 Před 5 měsíci +27

    I love Levy's videos. Using his advice I managed to get 1500 ELO on Lichess!

    • @DummyAccount-dr3fx
      @DummyAccount-dr3fx Před 5 měsíci +1

      Congrats, Me right now is trying to reach 2000 elo but its so difficult the players I encounter are so serious

    • @wseverywhere1279
      @wseverywhere1279 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Nice one 😂😂😂

  • @AcidGlow
    @AcidGlow Před 5 měsíci +5

    Just like in any video game, the AI can become unbeatable. As they know your every move and react to the first frame you do and they do an opposite move that will beat it. You can only win when it lets you win.

    • @festivebear9946
      @festivebear9946 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Their reaction time is one of the biggest driving factors behind their ability to win. You see it in RTS's where the AI might not be building as efficiently as possible, but its unit management is unparalleled with 10x as many actions per second as human players. I'd love to see AI vs human when speed is equalized, then it's really about who is smarter. E.g. it takes a few seconds to even come up with legal moves, then several minutes to evaluate them. Here, you take away AI's biggest advantage, which is pure speed. Now it's all about being able to read and evaluate the board the best.

    • @quag443
      @quag443 Před 5 měsíci

      ​@@festivebear9946 Last time I checked, Leela Chess Zero on one node (playing without search, using intuition only) is about GM level in rapid time control, and Leela on about 10 nodes per move is roughly GM on classic time control. Maybe a little give and take, but I think that shows a rough picture on where AI stands without doing any calculation, or doing as few calculations as a human would

    • @festivebear9946
      @festivebear9946 Před 5 měsíci

      @@quag443 That is absolutely insane, thanks for the info!

  • @skahler
    @skahler Před 5 měsíci

    This was a really satisfying and entertaining video. Thanks!

  • @sexygeek8996
    @sexygeek8996 Před 5 měsíci +2

    Humans don't even consider many of the possible moves, but sometimes one of those moves is the best. Some computer programs do that too ("forward pruning", not to be confused with "alpha-beta" pruning mentioned in the video) in order to search deeper elsewhere, but they end up making the same mistake that a human would. A computer program that doesn't forward-prune will find any win within its search depth.

    • @mysticalmagic9259
      @mysticalmagic9259 Před 3 měsíci

      That's why sometimes a computer might spit a Mate in 13 but not a Mate in 4 until the move has already been made.

  • @danielbass09
    @danielbass09 Před 5 měsíci +4

    So what happens if you play Stockfish vs Stockfish? Is it 50/50 between each. Is it the player that goes first gets an advantage? Would they just play the exact same game every time as they would choose the best move which would be the same every game they played?

    • @Zack-Strife
      @Zack-Strife Před 5 měsíci +3

      They would draw every time as both would see their moves as the best and won’t be able to captivate on any advantage

    • @justassimple8328
      @justassimple8328 Před 5 měsíci

      They would draw mostly although they will win some games, they will still get the same number of scores. That's why when battling different chess engines, the first 10-15 moves will be based on the opening books before the computer starts thinking

    • @mysticalmagic9259
      @mysticalmagic9259 Před 3 měsíci

      It is always a draw. This is why in Computer Chess Tournaments, they are forced to play different openings for a set number of moves and then play on their own.
      For example, Stockfish will play Leela on a set opening. Both play one game as White and one as Black. If Stockfish can win as White and defend as Black, it is considered the victor and stronger computer. They do this for hundreds of different openings.

  • @gamercheese1526
    @gamercheese1526 Před 5 měsíci +15

    Levy never fails to be in a Wired video.

  • @richardconway6425
    @richardconway6425 Před 5 měsíci +1

    Great video!! Fun and informative. I never knew stockfish was so strong. That thing about the way it plays when the game is down to 7 pieces - that's scary.
    Player: am I going to lose?
    Stockfish: it's a logical certainty.
    😨

    • @afuzzycreature8387
      @afuzzycreature8387 Před 5 měsíci +3

      keep in mind these endgame databases are available for all engines to use but yeah. Sometimes this can lead to some diabolical results where the engine is basically trying to avoid entering the tablebase results but doesn't see mate itself where it will make a technically worse move and turn mate in 21 into mate in 3.

  • @Levipaulsen
    @Levipaulsen Před 5 měsíci

    They should make one of these that is way longer

  • @jhonnyrock
    @jhonnyrock Před 5 měsíci +4

    Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, and the one it desperately needs right now...

  • @forgetaboutit1069
    @forgetaboutit1069 Před 5 měsíci +13

    The fact Alpha Zero made Stockfish look silly after only 4 hours of learning chess by playing against itself is both fascinating and scary at the same time.

    • @liamb5791
      @liamb5791 Před 5 měsíci +8

      It played against stockfish 8 running on the hardware equivalent to that of a laptop… so it was always going to win

    • @daniella969
      @daniella969 Před 5 měsíci +7

      They saturated the network in 4 hours. Had they trained it for a day, it wouldn't have played better.

    • @forgetaboutit1069
      @forgetaboutit1069 Před 5 měsíci +4

      @@liamb5791 maybe so but I think you’re missing the point. I know it’s not apples to apples; Stockfish agreed to the terms (as did others) but GPU will crush CPU on parallel computing and that’s the difference. The proof was in the neural network of Alpha Zero teaching itself which does require specialized hardware. The future of GPU will takeover tasks that CPU can never do no matter how much CPU is strengthened. It would be fun to run it back today and see how it plays out.

    • @DarthVader-wk9sd
      @DarthVader-wk9sd Před 5 měsíci +4

      @@forgetaboutit1069Stockfish has long since surpassed alphazero. Another engine called leela adopted that style of learning but it is still worse than stockfish

    • @forgetaboutit1069
      @forgetaboutit1069 Před 5 měsíci +2

      @@DarthVader-wk9sd they played in 2017. Hope it long passed it lol. But the main point is GPU engines will eventually wipe the floor with CPU engines.

  • @jsdiazc
    @jsdiazc Před 5 měsíci +2

    What I don’t understand is why would stockfish pick a different opening on another game?
    It has already assessed all possible structures for all the openings and it knows which one scores the best.
    In your game, after 1.d4 it responded with Nf3, but I’ve seen it respond with d5 too.

    • @ME0WMERE
      @ME0WMERE Před 5 měsíci +7

      different time controls, different hardware and the fact that sf is non-deterministic on more than 1 thread

    • @inl2787
      @inl2787 Před 5 měsíci

      if multiple moves will have the same win rate then it will just randomly choose one.

  • @fengshuimma9160
    @fengshuimma9160 Před 2 měsíci +2

    The man feels like he was a human created by the ai, who’s sole purpose was to interact with a human to see their perspective on the game.

  • @shouldersofgiants4649
    @shouldersofgiants4649 Před 5 měsíci +13

    Like for Gary Linscott, a legitimate expert, an engineer and not some influencer bozo

  • @Veptis
    @Veptis Před 5 měsíci +3

    I got some ideas on how I would write a chess engine, never looked into it or how awful it is to setup.
    I would for example maximize the number of legal moves, or pick a move where the fewest number of positive moves are available for the opponent. Now this will turn into sacrifices all the time - but you could go a few layers deep.
    Essentially give the opponent as many possible options of only a few are good. this way you allow them to make most mistakes.
    You could also do something else, like chose a move where you opponent only has equal moves. To then win on times.
    I wonder if you can finetune an engine based on their opponent. As in the computer championships, you do have limited time and equal hardware.
    One idea I have had is to make a chess learning game. The beginner level would be finding all legal moves (to understand the game).
    And the actual challenge then is to classify moves into blunders, mistakes, waiting, good. and the master level would be to rank them in order. I wonder if such a tool already exists, because forcing the human to think "like an engine" was an option.

    • @moatef1886
      @moatef1886 Před 5 měsíci +1

      Engines already do this and have been doing this for a long long time. It’s part of their evaluation function.

  • @Kloiyd
    @Kloiyd Před 5 měsíci +1

    This guy should make a CZcams channel. What a lad.

  • @hiim33
    @hiim33 Před 5 měsíci

    They have great chemistry and are both very charismatic!

  • @haphazardprism
    @haphazardprism Před 5 měsíci +7

    The AI knows every board state and what move to do accordingly, what a surprise 😂 16tb of memory actually surprised me though.

    • @moatef1886
      @moatef1886 Před 5 měsíci +11

      Only when there are 7 pieces of less. Even adding one more piece blows up the memory required to ridiculous amounts. It’s unknown whether we will achieve solving chess like this in the future, or even ever.

    • @rp3351
      @rp3351 Před 5 měsíci +2

      @@moatef1886 It's been estimated that there are way more possible variations in a game of chess than there are atoms in the observable universe... so, well, I guess not =)
      It blows one's mind to think about that.

  • @TitaniumToenail
    @TitaniumToenail Před 5 měsíci +4

    Stockfish knows more positions than Johnny Sins.

  • @FarmerBenny
    @FarmerBenny Před 5 měsíci

    extremely well edited

  • @KuroroSama42
    @KuroroSama42 Před měsícem

    3:30 Maybe it determined that to be a good result because even though that area is now weak... you just have no way to even get close to attacking that weakness?
    If you've got an army 10,000 strong, but the only way to approach your castle is through a chokepoint, then there's no reason to leave troops to defend the castle if you can just have them all defend the chokepoint.

  • @obiwankenobi5769
    @obiwankenobi5769 Před 5 měsíci +5

    Stockfish: i am unbeatable
    Me: *turns off computer* checkmate

  • @Evex6
    @Evex6 Před 5 měsíci +7

    Levy be making fun of people for blundering in GTE when he casually makes 2 blunders and 2 mistakes

    • @rokeYouuer
      @rokeYouuer Před 5 měsíci

      He's presumably playing Stockfish at its highest processing power, so it could label something a mistake that even base Stockfish would think is the best move.

    • @Evex6
      @Evex6 Před 5 měsíci

      @@rokeYouuer Yea i do notice that when i play games but just a joke

  • @Iheb4166
    @Iheb4166 Před 5 měsíci +1

    first time seeing gothamchess so chill

  • @bunkerputt
    @bunkerputt Před 5 měsíci

    The way top engines just sit and shuffle pieces seemingly without principle because they found some sequence related to something very deep requiring tempi...

  • @lucaslahlum6331
    @lucaslahlum6331 Před 5 měsíci +5

    What happens if more than one move is tied for best move? How does it choose? You say that it evaluates them but a tie is possible, no?

    • @j-rey-
      @j-rey- Před 5 měsíci +4

      I don't know about Stockfish, but in algorithms that try to maximize a certain result, often there are several factors for determining an optimal solution, with one taking precedence over others. If two moves have identical values for that most important factor, then it would move on to the next most important factor, and so on until one was greater than the other. Alternatively, they could have some function of all these factors, and when combining them at the end, come up with some final number that is guaranteed to be unique, or at least be unique with 99.9999% certainty. Remember, it is assessing billions of branching paths, so the probability of any two moves having an identical "likelihood of winning" value are exceedingly low. However, if all of these sophisticated algorithms still result such that two moves have the same "likelihood of winning" value, it would likely just pick one randomly.

    • @Celatra
      @Celatra Před 5 měsíci +8

      It will just play the first one. There is always a difference between 2 "best" moves, even if just by 0.05.

    • @presleyelisememorial
      @presleyelisememorial Před 5 měsíci

      @@Celatrathere absolutely is not always one best move in every position. There can be 10 different checkmates in 1 in a position

    • @Celatra
      @Celatra Před 5 měsíci

      @@presleyelisememorial yes, but one of them leads to a faster mate thN the others. The less moves spent the better

  • @RishabhSharma10225
    @RishabhSharma10225 Před 5 měsíci +2

    My boy Gotham at it again.

    • @Eye-vp5de
      @Eye-vp5de Před 5 měsíci

      Levi never fails to do this again

  • @craigstevens9351
    @craigstevens9351 Před 5 měsíci

    gotham chess asked great questions and is a great teacher

  • @Majima_Nowhere
    @Majima_Nowhere Před 13 dny +1

    I give this video a (?!) "This permits the opponent to eventually win a pawn" out of 10

  • @boomerzilean
    @boomerzilean Před 5 měsíci +3

    "You idiots!! Mate in 35!!!" 😂😂

  • @NeivisMassunga
    @NeivisMassunga Před 5 měsíci +6

    Sou angolano, amo esse canal somente por causa do inglês.

    • @wiccabessa
      @wiccabessa Před 5 měsíci +1

      Somente porcausa do inglês?
      Existem milhões de canais em inglês😅😅😅

  • @justind9858
    @justind9858 Před měsícem

    Such a great vid - informative and fun, but would love to have seen your game against Stockfish.

  • @jump7575
    @jump7575 Před 2 měsíci

    I need to see a stockfish vs stockfish