Fantasy Warfare: How to Write Thrilling Battles
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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In this video, I share a formula that can be used to tell if your fantasy battle scenes are working - or failing. This formula will also guide you in creating better fight scenes that grip readers and advance your plot in the most enthralling way possible.
⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
00:29 - The Excitement Equation
01:41 - Concern
03:12 - Making characters more interesting
07:35 - Making readers care about the battle
08:53 - Propulsive prose
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Honestly the most underrated writing channel I’ve ever watched. Every video is like a gold mine. Every concept is so well communicated and valuable for writing fantasy. Keep making this amazing content!
he does fine though has a stable job and getts free popularity and gets some dough with coaching but he dezerves 5 mill +
Thanks for the kind words
Bruh 100% - Jed has some of the advice that just feels so right, unlike sooo many other channels - his info seems realllly good. Perhaps in the future I'll know if my perceptions were right, as you actually can't know if something that feels right actually helped you ^*^
I literally got chills from the Gary Provost quote. Beautiful.
It's a killer
Oh my gosh!!! That propulsive prose five-sentence example paragraph thing was minddddd blowingggg
It blew my mind when I first read it as well
One of the easiest ways of upping the stakes and concern in a battle is to utilize the most important part of actual battles: Gaining territory. Most battle scenes are just "advance advance advance" and "kill kill kill". But nobody seems to care what positions they should focus on, what are good to prioritize to gain an upperhand. Typically these "last stand defense" battles are the most exciting because we clearly understand what the position is that is being attacked and defended.
Great way to up the stakes for sure
The battle of helm's deep in LotR is a good example of that.
Fantasy sieges are great for this reason by the way, because the city walls, gates, towers are easy to imagine. I would add that on a subconscious level they play with some of our deepest fears. When the enemy break the gates, it's a symbolic rape and that convey a sense of dread and horror.
And alas, the fact that this kind of warfare still occurs nowadays make us familiar with the stakes. A huge barbaric army rushing over a city protected by outgunned defenders, civilians fleeing while being targeted for slaughter, heroic resistance seemingly hopeless and victory through resolve, ruse and sacrifice ? That's Kyiv 2022, but that also sounds like a generic fantasy siege battle.
Meanwhile, a battle field located in the countryside will be harder to turn into a nail-biter. Who cares if the infantry retreat from the vineyards to enter the forest ? Unless that forest is Fangorn, of course...
I just wanted to say thank you. I was editing a novel I wrote 9 years ago, and I came to the final battle as I had written it. I noticed, thanks to the lessons on this video, that the tension wasn't built right for the scene. I have re-worked the entire ending of my novel with your assistance. Thank you, sincerely.
Awesome stuff!
I was just looking for writing battle scenes to spark my passion for writing fiction after a draining school day, and here I am, and here you are, a new Jed Herne video about exactly what I was longing for dropped! I can't fully express my exuberance via chat, but I can say this: You made me jump like a child in a way I didn't do for a worryingly long time, and I want to thank you graciously for all you did and do! ( I awarely risk sounding childish and kitschy at this point; I just love your content, which made me explode in joy, particularly today! )
Glad to know you're enjoying the vids!
I'm pleasantly surprised that someone on Booktube finally addressed the misleading advice about short sentences.
The greatest battle scene in modern English literature is, for most part, a single sentence: McCarthy's Legion of Horribles, from Blood Meridian.
One thing I hate about so many major battle scenes in fantasy is how often the huge pitched field battle is completely irrelevant as far as what actually impacts the plot. You'll have two forces just going at it; then the villain will unveil their trump card or just use their established powers and thousands of redshirts will get mown down without a second thought to show how he's serious business; then the battle just ends in a rout right there if the villain is supposed to win. If the good guys are supposed to win, then they'll find some way to unleash some magical power or the like to subdue the villain, incapacitate the monster he summoned, or call down dragons or something, and the forces of good will somehow rally from the catastrophic casualties that would've sent any realistic army into total rout, and roll over the forces of evil.
Almost none of it comes down to anything like strategy, tactics, or anything actually done by the footsoldiers. We're supposed to care about this major battle when you can practically replace all of the nameless troops involved with just a scale showing which side is winning, and nothing would change, since there is no agency whatsoever on the part of the troops. As someone who has a significant interest in military strategy and tactics, I've just learned to stop caring about large-scale battles in fantasy settings, because they very infrequently come down to anything more than a meaningless meat grinder of mooks versus redshirts who take turns dying en masse because it's the easiest way the author can think of to communicate who's winning and why we should care.
I don't think it's too much to ask that, if you're showing a large-scale battle, something that should warrant strategy and tactics, then we actually get to see that. And "I'll now deploy my secret 'murder everything' trump card that wasn't featured in the story until two seconds ago" doesn't count as strategy or tactics.
Best comment in here. You are so on point. And in case you havnt heard of him, Ewart Oakeshot is the #1 historical mass battle writer among historians (this is the go to guy, when it comes to bringing epic battles in medieval Europe alive)
I think reward should be added to the equation. Readers really like when the protagonist is rewarded with something
Damn, those are some amazing writing tips, especially your bit on sentence length and spacing. Yours is a truly underrated channel.
I like this equation. Simple and helps in remembering.
Thanks mage!
Absolutely agree here. There is no value behind the epic fight if the reader doesn't have a reason to care. I do hear a lot about varying sentence length- I think it's important to note that doing this wrong could draw attention to the wrong things. Pauses are a tool. Make them happen when you WANT the reader to reflect on what you've written, and suddenly the profound impact of your battle will sink in between the lines.
Well said!
Hey man,
I just started worldbuilding with my brother and I'm getting into writing.
I love you're videos. They help a lot !
Hate to do it, but since you’re trying to be a writer… It’s your
@@mamba2242 😂 I did say “getting into”
Happy to hear that! Best of luck to you and your bro
So one thing I've seen as a reader with the grimdark subgenre is that a willingness to let your hero's loose, and let some of your secondary characters die combined with your protagonist getting their teeth metaphorically kicked in once or twice early in the the story let's me believe that your hero could loose, and that does a great job of building both stakes and concern for me as a reader. Conversely if your hero always wins and you have clearly granted all the good guys plot armor it can reach a point for me where you can't build concern because I can't suspend my disbelief that they might loose and the stakes go through the floor because again the outcome is not in doubt.
Loving seeing your channel growing and doing well Jed. You're encouraging a lot of people. Keep it up!
Thanks Kev! It's been great to have you here for the journey :)
Diversity of weapons and fortifications would be great
Most the time I just start with simple sentence then rework details several times later.
Example: He stood on gravel driveway, after being blow back by powerful hit. Standing straight, he raised his hands ready to fight his enemy.
Rewire; The villain came out nowhere with a high kick as he manage to block but, the blow fell him back on his feet dragging against the gravel a till he came to a stop. Uncrossing his arms, he looks up see mask villain waiting for him to make the next move. Bringing his fists to either side his face while widen out his stance becoming ready...
(Know it's not best but, under three minutes rewriting I wouldn't consider this to be half bad. Imagine what happens after time a week later.)
Hey Jed! I've been particularly stuck in writing an assassin battle seen at the beginning of my story and this helps so much! Thank you!
Glad I could help!
When you said "Hey Jed!", I misread that as "Hey Jedi"
I really enjoy when simple is made to fight against complex. For example, a master mage using a small rock to block a far stronger spell, a wind spell being used to blow away a volley of arrows, mud being used to trip a giant, etc.
How would one write a Zelda-esque puzzle dungeon in novel form? That is something I am currently struggling on.
Tip 4 has to get a comment from me. Excellent point. Went straight to my notes to write down 'PUT MORE SENSE IN BATTLES!'.
It's something I'd done for scenes, but hadn't though of the other sense for the battle too. Which is a rookie mistake! So thank you ☺️
Watched most of your videos now and they've all got some really good advice.
I also like it when the writer shocks with something that feels like realism rather than a nasty jump scare. Like, a soldier reaches for something and can't grab it, looks and realizes his arm is seriously wounded. Rather than parts of a body strewn here and there described in intimate detail. The first is about someone noticing something awful and noticing as much about it as he can bear to at the moment and carries the story forward, the second is a tour of some nasty wax museum.
This advice is amazing! I will definetly use it.
I will say that I have a very similar experience to the guy at 5:23. Your videos have been propelling my skills as a writer over the course of 2 weeks, that would've taken me like 6 months to develop on my own. I am definitely going to watch more videos of yours, you definitely earned yourself a hearty sub! ❤
Thank you so much! Super helpful.
This is an interesting concept because my main fantasy story is sci-fi. Most of the battle are ship-on-ship from within one ship. The quirk is that the captain is connected to the ship through implants which not only allow her to control the ship, but experience what the ship "feel" through its sensors.
This guy has the best writing videos!!
Like Conan the Barbaria in Robert E. Hoowards stories. He went from being a thief tp being the King of Aquilonia.
Superb stuff again Jed. Packed with great advice and so easily digestible and memorable. Keep fighting the good fight. ⚔️
Thanks Nick!
Absolutely signing up to that one on one coaching! I'm sure there's a lot of better writers applying, but dang it I am still gonna try xD
Wonderful. Love you Jed Herne. Especially what you did by bringing out that quote. Now it's getting boring.🙃
I have a fight scene where a main character gets injured. It used to establish danger of the quest. Here's the exert. *Elaine used her tail and struck Ariel and sent her soaring through a tree. "Now i can get that necklace and bring it to my master." She hissed. Elaine and Rendiel engaged in furious combat when Elaine managed to out maneuver Rendiel. In a flash Elaine's blade penatrated Rendiel's stomach. Elaine grinned madly as she reached for the necklace with her free hand when unexpectedly Rendiel grabbed the hand still holding the lodged sword. "Now I can make this a little more fun" Rendiel growled with a blood soaked smile that terrified Elaine who was met with several dozen punches she couldn't escape. Each impacting with a boom. Eventually she managed to catch the fist of Rendiel and prepared a counter with her tail when she suddenly felt pain in her chest. Looking down she saw her still beating heart being gripped by a hand through her chest and Ariel's vampiric snarl in her ears.* does this convey any excitement. Please let me know.
Actually seems like an interesting concept in a fight
Ill be genuine though and say that the excerpt has such poor grammar, dialogue, and sentence flow that I would not want to read the rest of the book at all.
The actual sentences that describe the action don't do their job very well. I can't visualize this in the slightest. What does "Elaine and rendiel engaged in furious combat" look like?
I'm sure it would be a decent story if it was properly edited and reworded
I think it would've been useful if you'd included or read out a few examples of great battles. It helps a lot to see theory put into practice in a way that lets your audience see exactly what you're talking about. This video put a lot of focus on individual matches and duels, but less so on whole armies clashing, be they modern or fantastical - which could be another video entirely, thinking about it now, but the title does imply that you talk about it in this video. The excitement equation is good to apply to conflict in general, but it teaches very little about the actual rhythm of a fight (goal - conflict - disaster), and making readers care about the battle and/or making characters more interesting is easy to say, but much harder to actually internalize. I hope you will include some practical examples in your next video, but I thought it was very imformative otherwise!
I'd reorder it. Conflict is always first so we know why they're fighting. Next is stakes, and add consequences at the end of formula. Action harder as you age because so much has already been done before. Everything else is set dressing?
Excitement = (Conflict + Stakes + Action + Consequences) * Investment
No one says they're concerned, they say they're invested. But it's good you realised investment is the most important.
Honestly, it's short-sighted to only apply this to only fights. Why not apply it to romance as well? Everything is action in its own right.
Thanks!
Thank you! I appreciate the support.
good picture of Lisbon's castle.
That thumbnail is, all your thumbnails are, freaking righteous mate
Hey your videos are awesome. I'm not writing any kinda novel but enjoy worldbuilding as a hobby and these always get me thinking about how to improve my world.
Glad you like them!
Sanderson’s beginning of ‘The Way of Kings’ had me on edge the whole time
9:51 THAT was impressive!
I think is might be important that stakes aren't always about who wins the battle. Examples of stakes for an obviously losing side are common, such as holding their position or presenting a threat in general for a certain time, or even just not giving up and dying with glory instead. For an obviously winning side, though... it is more about the quality of their victory. They can aim to make it a show, a political move, or win with as little casualties as possible, maybe on both sides.
So, my first fight scene consists of the main character saving these refugees coming into her kingdom but are surrounded by an army of demons. It’s to show the main character cares about people outside of her kingdom. It’s also to show off her abilities and skill. Is that enough of a purpose?
Now, what im getting is a fight scene between the main character and whoever is in opposition. Be it goals, ideals, etc. But what about scenes between two characters that while they may effect the main characters storyline, if indirectly, there arent any immediate consequences even though the reader may have the conceptualized idea of the importance of the fight in itself but as the main character is usually more limited in knowledge of whats happening broad spectrum story then the reader and might not in themselves realize the importance of the moment how d you then manage to create concern for the character? Its too easy to drop interest in a characters conflicts when we know whats going to happen but the character doesnt and as readers can say, "well he/she didnt know so of course that outcome was inevitable". How do you keep that concern when the reader knows more? While the stakes for the main character may be high, if we already guess the outcome its kinda hard to invest in the characters well being because we've already dismissed the outcome in our head. For instance when a character is killed off usually dramatically if we go famtasy route and some baddie is able to impersonate them to go looking for the main character. We already know that the main character is going to be betrayed by the impersonator so why should we care about the conflict when it occurs?
I don't have many big problems with what you said here (Yes I agree, we do need to care about the characters first). I just felt a little let down when you had to talk about sentence structure and paragraph flow. Obviously it needs to be said. I just wish we could stick to what I feel are the weightier matters like:
how to build action and suspense, or how to raise the stakes in a battle,
how to make emotional or tonal shifts in a battle, aka shifts in the balance of power, and how you can use it to emotionally affect the characters and the reader,
how to ground the action in consistency/believability, and how to avoid plot holes/logical gaps.
how to structure the events of a battle in a logical way, and how to keep track when going out of chronological order, or breaking up battles into multiple chapters,
where to change the pacing (speeding up or slowing down),
what kinds of descriptive details help a battle scene, and which ones bog it down, what to prioritize,
what cliches or overused battle tropes to avoid, or how to make a battle scene unique from others in a meaningful way,
how to elevate dialogue in a battle scene while avoiding overly cringey, hollywood-esque, heroic one-liners,
how to reveal character through actions in a battle scene,
how to execute a major plot twist during a battle,
how to handle character deaths in a respectful way, while still employing irony and other related story mechanics,
or how to make a conclusion for a battle feel satisfying.
These are just some ideas of what I would feel are more worthy of discussing than just simple writing mechanics like confining a paragraph to a single idea, that I already learned a long time ago.
I have one question. I have been working on this one specific story for nearly five years if not more. I've scraped definitely two versions and may have just tossed out the third because of certain changes. I was nearly done with the first draft of this latest version when I found that I was really struggling. It wasn't lack of inspiration or motivation, it was that I didn't want to let go of the scene that I was about to write. I have known about this scene for almost as long as I've been writing the book and I would like to sit and act it out over and over where I am my main character.
My question is, have you ever experienced this, or heard of people who have? If so, how do you/they handle this possessiveness over a specific scene or even the story as a whole?
I am currently working on a different book that is a prequel to the one I've been working on all these years, in fact I'm working on the story that the world for that story came from. Thank you, you have really helped me get back into writing again and helped me come up with a lot of new things to help me keep going almost every day.
Hey Jed, I’ve just moved to Perth from the UK, have you found any good writing/ critique groups here?
Any thoughts on identifying different nonplayer characters so readers can keep track of them during a battle? Let's say your characters are in a fight with four different guys. How would you identify them? It gets pretty old writing "the biggest guy, the shortest guy, the guy with the beard, etc." Any thoughts?
If I was to write a novel on paper what pen would you recommend
Really great writing channel. If you apply for your 1-2-1 writing course how long does it usually take to get an answer back form you?
The response time very much depends on how many applicants are coming through. I've been quite behind with responding to people recently because there's been a lot of people applying - but I'm trying to get responses back within a week.
Amazing advice. I tend to have the problem that I make my paragraphs too short, like rarely more than 6 sentences. I just have this innate feeling that if two seperate things are happening, they deserve their own paragraph, and if the paragraph is getting too long, the thing happening is too. Do you have any advice/video on how to remedy that?
Its not a problem if your paragraphs are too long or too short. They are like chapters, if they feel like they should end, don't drag it out, just make a new one.
is giving my story safe, in coaching link i have trust issues in life
😅😅😅
Also, might you be willing to do a video on plot archetypes?
What do you want to know about?
@@Jed_Herne Specifically what they are and how to use them. I know they're really helpful in developing a story, but they've never really clicked for me. Hope that makes sense!
Archetypes are basically templates that structure your story. For example, the "Heist" archetype refers to a type of novel centered around stealing something of importance. Most commonly this refers to the main character doing the stealing, but it can be twisted to involve the prevention of a heist. Either way, the novel follows a theme, and a similar sequence of events.
Choosing an archetype isn't critical to decide during the drafting process, but it will very often come in when you're editing because the story will certainly fall into an archetype and will help you be deliberate in adjusting your sequencing, verbiage, pacing and flow.
10:31 Sorcery, I say!
Personally, the problem I have is that I want everyone to read and pay attention to the entire scene.
I know that people will skim, and I don’t want that, so what I do is I make too many paragraph spaces.
I feel like they’ll read it better if the subject matter is different with every paragraph, and it just seems like too much.
I finished forst book of my saga and started second book with siege of city. Vity life during city is a pain to write down😂😂
Hey man. I'm thinking about buying one of your books but I'm against Amazon on principle. When will you start selling on other platforms/bookstores?
I already do! My eBooks are exclusive to amazon, but my paperbacks and hardbacks are available on basically every other store. Here's Across the Broken Stars on Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/across-the-broken-stars-jed-herne/1135959023?ean=9780648681939
@Jed_Herne ah, but I couldn't find that on your website. Thanks anyway
Good video, but I disagree with you saying that short sentences don't create speed. They do, but you're not wrong either on vary sentence length either. If you have a five-word sentence followed by a three-word and then a seven-word sentence you are varying length. For speed, you need more than short sentences. Your example use of only short sentences even if you vary between lengths some will feel slow in a block of text. To have short sentences feel fast, you also need short paragraphs.
😮
Cool, but what if I don’t have a main character?
Personally I like how Tolkien writes the Battle of the Five Armies in a the Hobbit. 😂
A good example of a fantasy war that was poorly executed after all the build up is the final battle in the wheel of time but this is for a very specific reason, it’s way to long the final battle in audio book format is 13 hours and it’s one chapter. Theee is a massive number of story line tied of in that fight and the fate of the world is involved but by the end your just left thinking, “thank god it’s over” which sucks cause overall the series is great
*promo sm*
Don't give characters problems, give them dilemmas. So _always_ love triangles lololol.
This style of writing make me just skip the battle. some many fictional battle are so dull. Worse this type of battle are going into the visual media.
999 likes -> *click*
Bruh, the battle scenes in Game of Thrones aren't thrilling they are shit.
I'll be honest - if you need telling how to write things like this then you are probably not a Writer (yet). Sure come and double check with an expert but first go and write your own Thrilling Battle scenes etc and give your own slant on them.
No written words can be thrilling.
Excitement is impossible in a medium that you can put down
Further, sensory stimulation is necessary and the written word has none.
Words can only deliver information
The seven deadly words "I don't care anymore about those people" - Dorothy J. Heydt on Usenet