Hello I love your channel. I am blind. I like how you talk when you are working. It brings these beautiful engines to life for me. The Lister twin sounds great at 1400 rpm. Keep up the good work. Rodney in Australia.
Who else noticed the gaskets were the wrong way round and the rocker box was loose. Sounds like you have a lazy starter motor, might need new brushes. Exhaust valve seals.
@@albinklein7680 Was not thinking seals as such but guides I know I said seals but was thinking guides I have seem them wear till they are oval on listers mind you the engine was forty years old and basically not been serviced in that time.
@@NorfolkMancave Recon from where, is it 24 volt and not 12 or was it just cleaned up from a junk yard, might be poor connection or dud batteries but that starter is not spinning as fast as it should, normally the they fairly zip the engine round.
There is a fly weight system in the front cover that should have springs that control the fuel rack. If those springs are not working correct they can restrict fuel flow when starting. Also you can hand crank engine with decompressors on and should hear a distinctive chirp as each injector fires. I notice no smoke coming from exhaust when cranking, definitely a sign of no or very little fuel injection.
I worked with an ava twin 20 years ago. Mounted to a post peeler with no proper exhaust! It was a beast of a machine and u certainly knew you'd done 8 hours on her
Definitely down to the fall on its side same if you tilt a lawnmower towards the exhaust side you'll get out it and clouds of smoke, and maybe look into conversion of the oil bath air filter into a standard filer
When starting mine by hand crank, I normally open both decomps, start cranking as fast as my old arm can get it, and release one decomp. When she begins to run, flip the other decomp. And away she goes!
I'd say ok, I think it could be the fall over, seems good compression to me , I'd say needs a good battery iv seen these turn over faster with elec start , thanks for sharing Adam !
I think your jump leads are not man enough to carry the current required to spin that engine over. You could also pair those batteries up to get more oomph
You may have glazed bores. My thought is to load it in some way, i.e. work it hard for at least an hour and see what is the result. There seems to be no problem with valve gear lubrication but those rubber type connectors will become hard in time. The answer is either to replace with more of the same or buy brass connectors 1/8 inch size fits.
I think your starting problem is just cranking speed, you do have a massive length of cable in circuit. A friend's 2 cylinder diesel generator has a 24v starter, not very convenient but if you decompress it you can spin it on 12v and put the compression back on once it is turning fast. (Yours is clearly 12v). A family member has a diesel boat with a tiny diesel, it drives me mad when they have to operate the starter for ages or use ether, I offered to get bigger battery cables and fit them for them..... nothing more I can do...not my problem!
One very common reason why Lister engines are hard to start is the wrong lube oil. They use straight 20 in summer and straight 10 in winter. Multigrade (Agricastrol) oil causes too much drag when cold, preventing the engine getting past cranking speed. Incidentally, the longer studs on the flywheel end rocker cover are for a lifting "clamp" originally fitted by the factory, it's made out of 1"×.25" bar bent into a "n" shape. The leak off pipe should be connected to the tank via the grommet on top, if it is blocked the engine will smoke. Another common problem with Listers is leaking internal fuel pipes which causes sump dilution, thinning the oil which then gets up past the rings. Is it possible that as your engine lay on its side lube oil migrated into the combustion chambers, filling the swirl chambers in the top of the pistons? A couple of teaspoons of oil would stay behind even after the engine was righted. This would cause hard starting initially as the injector spray pattern would not be correct and explain the oil in the exhaust. It should clear up after a short run.
I suspect that you know more about diesel engines than I do, however I have made enough engines to know that the gaskets were in the wrong way and the rocker covers were loose when you were taking primers. I would have cleaned off the grit from the outside first. If the last owners had the same way of maintaining it then there could be crud in the whole engine including the fuel lines and injectors. saying that lover your channel
The gaskets were on the right way. you can't really get them wrong. it's because someone has knicked the lifting eye off that cover, hence why it's got longer studs. That's why I had to add the washers as there was not enough thread. she's dry now tho. 😕
It needs a good run at moderate revs after a long stand as this clears the oil galleries and lubricates the engine and after a cool down a restart should start to free the piston rings and any governer springs and the fuel racks and once they begin moving you can work to fully free them and get the fuel racks in the correct start position to deliver full start fuel (excess fuel) and give good compression and I would rebuild the starter so the starter solonoid is cleaned and making full connections.
I’d say there’s a fuel issue here - virtually no smoke when you’re cranking…. As someone else mentioned - injector nozzles. If you have a stuck needle or really crap nozzle that could give the dribbly exhaust too. And the blue haze. Or maybe there’s an issue getting fuel to the injectors? Leak, air lock etc? Or sticking delivery valves in the pumps? That seems like a lot of ether for a little engine…. If it’s getting fuel into the cylinder it should start on the first compression - even at that speed…. If compression is low or it’s very cold then a few squirts of oil down each intake should help. Maybe take an oil cap off while running to see how much ring leakage you’re getting? Good luck!
yes I will have to look deeper into this engine I think. I had it running for about 30 mins today. I had her set about 1800 RPM and I did remove the oil filler cap and there was next to no blow by and compression seems very very good. I'm thinking maybe it's fuel system and flooded with oil from it fall over. 🤔
Nice running engine Adam. About that hard starting i think your injectors aren't spraying like they should. Even when you're turning her over i can't hear the creak of the injector. I would suggest check the injector spray pattern in the next video. Thanks for sharing buddy!😉😉
Air cooled lister Listers will have a wet exhaust with no load. They need at least 50% load to heat up properly and burn the fuel properly. Your fuel pump/injectors could be needing a service too making it hard to start. Also fo you need a bung in the manifold where those primers come out?
Injector pumps faulty.... --No smoke when cranking when no knocking-fluid used, prolly had water in fuel/cloudy diesel. only takes tiny bit... Often, these were started by hand, so nowt to do with cranking speed. Pump wont deliver the high pressure until its spun fast--thats why this one needs extra fast cranking, or knocking-fluid,--Engine very slow to pick up when slowed right down also points to this--prolly even worse when hot. Most indestructible engines the Diesel,--Except the delicate ultra precision injection system. Get a tiny score or corrosion on a pump plunger, its stuffed....
Sounds nice enough? Them batteries are cranking it over to slowly ? I reckon that's pooled oil when it got tipped over ,run it again and get it really hot see if it clears .
Id say, its not having enough fuel. Are you sure the nozzles are healthy? Every lister this type I had where always with stuck injector nozzles. worth having a look at them.
yeah I think I need to remove injectors and test them. I can't hear them creaking when I crank it by hand. plus I got a gut feeling oil has got places it should not be.
Just a thought Adam. I wonder whether the oil bath filter has emptied through the manifold as the oil dripping looked well knackered. Another thought on the smoking. I used Kubota and Iseki tractors for thousands of hours weed spraying over the years and suffered from smoke which made working life nasty. One day I bought a Jerri can of red diesel as we always fuelled them with the vans and the smoking stopped. A chemist at an oil refinery I worked at said that road diesel, especially supermarket brands has a lot of fillers and additives. I go to Ireland a lot and many garages advertise that they dont put additives in their fuel in the warmer months as people have learnt this cuts down MPG.
I noticed the smoke disappeared when you blipped the throttle while it was dropping back down to idle. If it were blowby this would have remained so it looks like the fuel / air to me. Is the intake blocked full of oil/shite?
yeah I'm going to look at fuel system next i think. Once she had Been running for half hour today I dud remove filler caps. she was belting along about 1800 rpm. could see or feel no blowback at all.. my gut tells me this engine is mechanically good.
Yeah am going to check fuel system next for sure. when I crank by hand I can't here the injectors "creak" as they should. Once she is going tho it's so sweet.
Det ER 2 konkrete ting jeg HØRER og ser når det gjelder den Lister Diesel Motoren Twin i Videoen: Det ene der med at den bruker litt tid FØR den rekker å få opp turtallet tyder på dårlig kontakt et sted. det 2 er: Ettersom den er såpass tungstarta, så kan det være lurt å skifte dyser (Blårøyken TYDER på at den ikke forbrenner drivstoffet helt som den skal, mulig den også drar litt olje inn i sylinderne. Slik blårøyk er også en indikasjon på at den trolig FÅR litt for mye diesel) Men det der kan justeres. Ideelt skal diesel motorer ikke ryke i det hele tatt. M.V.H Frode Valderhaug
Yes 1 was loose. it was because somone had robbed the lifting hook so the nuts ran out of thread. putting them washers on solved that issue. they are both oil tight now 🙂
I don't think she's past it air fuel mixture could be to blame or even the injectors aren't working properly but it is still a good engine even if she is wore out I like some wore out engines they tell a story just don't start them as often 👍
yeah I don't think she is tired to be honest mate as once she us running she is sweet as a nut.. Think I need to remove injectors or even heads and see what's happening. 🤔
Hi Adam, do you think when it was on it's side the air cleaner emptied it's contents into the inlet tract and this drowned the engine (might explain why they thought it had seized) and the oil from this has messed up the injectors making it hard to start and if they were cranking with the starter motor for long periods could it now be a bit worn and becoming lazy, by the way if you're into Listers we've got some up at our yard (definitely some 2D's and various others) along with other stationary engine items if you are interested.
Hi ya Steve. you may well be onto simthing there as there is very little oil in the air cleaner. I may well pull injectors and give them a look over. yeah if you got any old Listers or and other old engines I'm more than interested as that what makes the channel. 😃
spray some washing up liquid and water at the gaskets you might have a bad gasket on the pots because its only starting on the easy start looking like its hard to turn try with the handle
My guess is her rings have been damaged when she turned mistress. if ya'll put new rings in her she will run 50 years. I think they got damaged when the beet truck turned upside right.
Yeah it could be rings. alto she got very good compression and when she is running hardly and blow by. This is a strange one as these engines are normally so reliabl🤔
She is not the best starting running engine in the world, but so what, you have time to sort it out parts aren't crazy expensive maybe a rebuild next year.
Hello I love your channel. I am blind. I like how you talk when you are working. It brings these beautiful engines to life for me. The Lister twin sounds great at 1400 rpm. Keep up the good work. Rodney in Australia.
Hi Rodney, I'm trying to get a HB2 and a HB3 going. Are you any good with these old Lister's?
Who else noticed the gaskets were the wrong way round and the rocker box was loose. Sounds like you have a lazy starter motor, might need new brushes. Exhaust valve seals.
I thought the starter motor sounded lazy as well.
Well that's not the original starter as that was missing. This starter is a recon unit I bought. or so I was told 🤔
Equiluxe; Those engines don't have valve stem seals. You can retrofit them but I think it's pointless.
@@albinklein7680 Was not thinking seals as such but guides I know I said seals but was thinking guides I have seem them wear till they are oval on listers mind you the engine was forty years old and basically not been serviced in that time.
@@NorfolkMancave Recon from where, is it 24 volt and not 12 or was it just cleaned up from a junk yard, might be poor connection or dud batteries but that starter is not spinning as fast as it should, normally the they fairly zip the engine round.
Super lesson on a beautiful classic, super job!
I am doing a top end service on my SR2 narrowboat engine and your videos have helped me no end. Thankyou.....
There is a fly weight system in the front cover that should have springs that control the fuel rack. If those springs are not working correct they can restrict fuel flow when starting. Also you can hand crank engine with decompressors on and should hear a distinctive chirp as each injector fires. I notice no smoke coming from exhaust when cranking, definitely a sign of no or very little fuel injection.
Thanks very much for the info. Will get to that in time.
I worked with an ava twin 20 years ago. Mounted to a post peeler with no proper exhaust! It was a beast of a machine and u certainly knew you'd done 8 hours on her
Yeah lovely old lump. Great sound. 👍
Definitely down to the fall on its side same if you tilt a lawnmower towards the exhaust side you'll get out it and clouds of smoke, and maybe look into conversion of the oil bath air filter into a standard filer
When starting mine by hand crank, I normally open both decomps, start cranking as fast as my old arm can get it, and release one decomp. When she begins to run, flip the other decomp. And away she goes!
This guy doesn’t know what he’s doing.
I'd say ok, I think it could be the fall over, seems good compression to me , I'd say needs a good battery iv seen these turn over faster with elec start , thanks for sharing Adam !
yeah I'm going to give the fuel system a closer look and wire that starter better so it's not going through 10 foot jump leads..
Interestingly Bryan Adams had a hit inspired by the Lister entitled "Everything I do, I do ST2"
Hi Adam you need to put a bolt in the hole your primers came out of in the manifold, the gromets only block the air ducting cowl
Yes I'm going to do that before I start her next. 🙂
I think your jump leads are not man enough to carry the current required to spin that engine over. You could also pair those batteries up to get more oomph
Looking good!
You may have glazed bores. My thought is to load it in some way, i.e. work it hard for at least an hour and see what is the result. There seems to be no problem with valve gear lubrication but those rubber type connectors will become hard in time. The answer is either to replace with more of the same or buy brass connectors 1/8 inch size fits.
I think your starting problem is just cranking speed, you do have a massive length of cable in circuit. A friend's 2 cylinder diesel generator has a 24v starter, not very convenient but if you decompress it you can spin it on 12v and put the compression back on once it is turning fast. (Yours is clearly 12v). A family member has a diesel boat with a tiny diesel, it drives me mad when they have to operate the starter for ages or use ether, I offered to get bigger battery cables and fit them for them..... nothing more I can do...not my problem!
One very common reason why Lister engines are hard to start is the wrong lube oil. They use straight 20 in summer and straight 10 in winter. Multigrade (Agricastrol) oil causes too much drag when cold, preventing the engine getting past cranking speed. Incidentally, the longer studs on the flywheel end rocker cover are for a lifting "clamp" originally fitted by the factory, it's made out of 1"×.25" bar bent into a "n" shape. The leak off pipe should be connected to the tank via the grommet on top, if it is blocked the engine will smoke.
Another common problem with Listers is leaking internal fuel pipes which causes sump dilution, thinning the oil which then gets up past the rings. Is it possible that as your engine lay on its side lube oil migrated into the combustion chambers, filling the swirl chambers in the top of the pistons? A couple of teaspoons of oil would stay behind even after the engine was righted. This would cause hard starting initially as the injector spray pattern would not be correct and explain the oil in the exhaust. It should clear up after a short run.
I suspect that you know more about diesel engines than I do, however I have made enough engines to know that the gaskets were in the wrong way and the rocker covers were loose when you were taking primers. I would have cleaned off the grit from the outside first. If the last owners had the same way of maintaining it then there could be crud in the whole engine including the fuel lines and injectors. saying that lover your channel
The gaskets were on the right way. you can't really get them wrong. it's because someone has knicked the lifting eye off that cover, hence why it's got longer studs. That's why I had to add the washers as there was not enough thread. she's dry now tho. 😕
It needs a good run at moderate revs after a long stand as this clears the oil galleries and lubricates the engine and after a cool down a restart should start to free the piston rings and any governer springs and the fuel racks and once they begin moving you can work to fully free them and get the fuel racks in the correct start position to deliver full start fuel (excess fuel) and give good compression and I would rebuild the starter so the starter solonoid is cleaned and making full connections.
would it have started easier if you had used the decompression levers ?
I’d say there’s a fuel issue here - virtually no smoke when you’re cranking…. As someone else mentioned - injector nozzles. If you have a stuck needle or really crap nozzle that could give the dribbly exhaust too. And the blue haze. Or maybe there’s an issue getting fuel to the injectors? Leak, air lock etc? Or sticking delivery valves in the pumps?
That seems like a lot of ether for a little engine…. If it’s getting fuel into the cylinder it should start on the first compression - even at that speed…. If compression is low or it’s very cold then a few squirts of oil down each intake should help.
Maybe take an oil cap off while running to see how much ring leakage you’re getting?
Good luck!
yes I will have to look deeper into this engine I think. I had it running for about 30 mins today. I had her set about 1800 RPM and I did remove the oil filler cap and there was next to no blow by and compression seems very very good. I'm thinking maybe it's fuel system and flooded with oil from it fall over. 🤔
It sounds like woody woodpecker laughing when you try to start it.
Nice running engine Adam. About that hard starting i think your injectors aren't spraying like they should. Even when you're turning her over i can't hear the creak of the injector. I would suggest check the injector spray pattern in the next video. Thanks for sharing buddy!😉😉
I was then going to say that. I'm wondering if that water got its way into the fuel system at some point after its accident. 🤔
Holy heck you’re savage on equipment
Lol. Sometimes..
I believe man fromthemist is on to something with his suggestion 🇺🇸
Yeah going to do that before the next start..
Another great video Adam and I am sure with a bit of a tinker you will get her running as sweet as a nut.
Yeah I think I need to go through the fuel system more. don't think she is pumping diesel.
Maybe the head gaskets or a valve stem but it could be what you think.
Air cooled lister Listers will have a wet exhaust with no load. They need at least 50% load to heat up properly and burn the fuel properly. Your fuel pump/injectors could be needing a service too making it hard to start. Also fo you need a bung in the manifold where those primers come out?
Injector pumps faulty....
--No smoke when cranking when no knocking-fluid used, prolly had water in fuel/cloudy diesel. only takes tiny bit...
Often, these were started by hand, so nowt to do with cranking speed.
Pump wont deliver the high pressure until its spun fast--thats why this one needs extra fast cranking, or knocking-fluid,--Engine very slow to pick up when slowed right down also points to this--prolly even worse when hot.
Most indestructible engines the Diesel,--Except the delicate ultra precision injection system. Get a tiny score or corrosion on a pump plunger, its stuffed....
Sounds nice enough? Them batteries are cranking it over to slowly ? I reckon that's pooled oil when it got tipped over ,run it again and get it really hot see if it clears .
I think your onto something there Mat.. 🤔
Id say, its not having enough fuel. Are you sure the nozzles are healthy? Every lister this type I had where always with stuck injector nozzles. worth having a look at them.
yeah I think I need to remove injectors and test them. I can't hear them creaking when I crank it by hand. plus I got a gut feeling oil has got places it should not be.
@@NorfolkMancave for example what places that shouldnt be and yoy think is in??
Just a thought Adam. I wonder whether the oil bath filter has emptied through the manifold as the oil dripping looked well knackered. Another thought on the smoking. I used Kubota and Iseki tractors for thousands of hours weed spraying over the years and suffered from smoke which made working life nasty. One day I bought a Jerri can of red diesel as we always fuelled them with the vans and the smoking stopped. A chemist at an oil refinery I worked at said that road diesel, especially supermarket brands has a lot of fillers and additives. I go to Ireland a lot and many garages advertise that they dont put additives in their fuel in the warmer months as people have learnt this cuts down MPG.
Yeah I think I will get some cheery and try it.
I noticed the smoke disappeared when you blipped the throttle while it was dropping back down to idle. If it were blowby this would have remained so it looks like the fuel / air to me. Is the intake blocked full of oil/shite?
yeah I'm going to look at fuel system next i think. Once she had Been running for half hour today I dud remove filler caps. she was belting along about 1800 rpm. could see or feel no blowback at all.. my gut tells me this engine is mechanically good.
That oil could also be unburnt Diesel which is another sign of the injectors not spraying properly.
Yeah am going to check fuel system next for sure. when I crank by hand I can't here the injectors "creak" as they should. Once she is going tho it's so sweet.
Hi Adam, fantastic to watch you, I cant
stop watching, what lister model is it? Thanks bill
She is an ST-2 sir.
Det ER 2 konkrete ting jeg HØRER og ser når det gjelder den Lister Diesel Motoren Twin i Videoen: Det ene der med at den bruker litt tid FØR den rekker å få opp turtallet tyder på dårlig kontakt et sted. det 2 er: Ettersom den er såpass tungstarta, så kan det være lurt å skifte dyser (Blårøyken TYDER på at den ikke forbrenner drivstoffet helt som den skal, mulig den også drar litt olje inn i sylinderne. Slik blårøyk er også en indikasjon på at den trolig FÅR litt for mye diesel) Men det der kan justeres. Ideelt skal diesel motorer ikke ryke i det hele tatt. M.V.H Frode Valderhaug
Think it becuse it fell over and oil went everywhere, it needs a good clear out, get her hot
Yeah Deffo going to give it a better look over and give it a good run. 👍
you need proper battery cables them jump leads have too much resistance
Looked like valvecovers were still loose after your click click and grommet replacement,moved there
Yes 1 was loose. it was because somone had robbed the lifting hook so the nuts ran out of thread. putting them washers on solved that issue. they are both oil tight now 🙂
Simple answer is “if it’s hard to start, somethings wrong”.
Yep. 100% agree there. She was very tired indeed.
also your leak back pipe is not connected to the tank
I don't think she's past it air fuel mixture could be to blame or even the injectors aren't working properly but it is still a good engine even if she is wore out I like some wore out engines they tell a story just don't start them as often 👍
yeah I don't think she is tired to be honest mate as once she us running she is sweet as a nut.. Think I need to remove injectors or even heads and see what's happening. 🤔
Hi Adam, do you think when it was on it's side the air cleaner emptied it's contents into the inlet tract and this drowned the engine (might explain why they thought it had seized) and the oil from this has messed up the injectors making it hard to start and if they were cranking with the starter motor for long periods could it now be a bit worn and becoming lazy, by the way if you're into Listers we've got some up at our yard (definitely some 2D's and various others) along with other stationary engine items if you are interested.
Hi ya Steve. you may well be onto simthing there as there is very little oil in the air cleaner. I may well pull injectors and give them a look over. yeah if you got any old Listers or and other old engines I'm more than interested as that what makes the channel. 😃
Shame it’s chucking oil out and a pig to start but she runs well once it has started 👍
yeah I'm going to dig deeper into the fuel and air system Lee. 🙂
A hole lot wrong with this video. But thinks for sharing.
Nice on Adam
Thanks mate.
spray some washing up liquid and water at the gaskets you might have a bad gasket on the pots because its only starting on the easy start looking like its hard to turn try with the handle
yeah it's very hard to turn on the handle as it's turning it off the cam so it's geared down 2 to 1.
@@NorfolkMancave have ya got a email ill send a viid of a ST that sank and i cleaned it and i did the head gasket it fires on first pop
@@solwaysailing1692 yes mate. You can either message me on Facebook Norfolk man cave. Or my email is adamfenn2@yahoo.com. would be interesting to see.
My guess is her rings have been damaged when she turned mistress. if ya'll put new rings in her she will run 50 years. I think they got damaged when the beet truck turned upside right.
Yeah it could be rings. alto she got very good compression and when she is running hardly and blow by. This is a strange one as these engines are normally so reliabl🤔
She is not the best starting running engine in the world, but so what, you have time to sort it out parts aren't crazy expensive maybe a rebuild next year.
Hi I use the decomposition leaver to start my 3 cylinder if it's cold first start.
Yeah it don't seem to make any difference to be honest. I think I got fuel issue. ⛽️
Is that a p6 hiding under the cover at the start.
it is indeed. V8 aswell. 😀
@@NorfolkMancave very nice, bit sad I noticed it, is it all up and running. 👍
Rocker cover loose
As a Canadian it saddens me that Bryan Adams had a racist bozo eruption last year. Something to do with chinaflu…..🤬
That's a very random comment Dave. Lol
@@NorfolkMancave I’m a school bus driver, it pays to be random with primary schoolers.
Villiers is pronounced villers. Don't ask me why I know that.
lol. suppose it is. I never really thought about it.
تا اینجا که من فهمیدم تو مکانیک نیستی فقط شو من هستی
Yo creo que no sabe encenderlo,ni puta idea
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