20240311 Francis Lucille and Professor Donald Hoffman in Conversation
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- A discussion about science, mathematics, meaning and spirituality.
For information on Donald Hoffman’s theory of consciousness realism, see:
Scientific papers:
1. Donald Hoffman, Chetan Prakash: Objects of consciousness www.frontiersin.org/journals/...
2. Donald D. Hoffman, Chetan Prakash, Robert Prentner: Fusions of Consciousness: www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/25/1/129
Book (suitable for non-technical readers)
Donald D Hoffman: The Case Against Reality: How Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes ISBN-13: 978-0141983417
My previous interview with Donald on science and non-duality (for a non-technical audience): • Living in Not-Knowing ...
For information on Francis Lucille’s teaching: francislucille.com/
Francis Lucille's CZcams channel: / @francislucille
Francis Lucille's meetings and retreats: www.meetup.com/advaita/
The paper by Chris Fuchs on QBism that Donald mentioned can be found here: arxiv.org/pdf/1003.5209.pdf
Chapters:
0:00:00 Introduction
0:01:03 What can science tell us about reality?
0:06:03 Limitations of science
0:12:05 How science progresses
0:18:52 Great theories tell you their limits
0:24:50 New theory must include the old theory
0:27:44 Positive geometries beyond space-time
0:28:48 Consciousness and quantum theory
0:35:44 Energy, information, meaning and syntax
0:43:38 Einstein and black holes
0:47:39 Religions have commonality but are imprecise
0:52:30 The science of not-knowing
0:58:25 One consciousness - a theorem of Don’s model
1:10:19 Consciousness knowing itself
1:16:35 Why does Consciousness veil itself?
1:26:07 Science, mathematics and art as a beautiful game
1:34:20 Mapping from Markov kernels to positive geometries
1:40:14 Unanswered questions
Wow! Don +Francis very interesting,thanks for this meeting!
awesome great work Francis love this conversation!
Hoffman is a giant and most of us don’t understand the physics and math but intuitively we know he speaks truth!!
So inspiriring! Thank you Jenny 🫶 and of course many thanks to Francis and Prof. Hoffman 👏
Dr. Hoffman has one billion interviews online, and this is the first time some questions were asked. It’s great when that happens. Thanks! 🎉
What an interesting conversation! Thank you Μrs Beal.
1.25.14: DH "reality is what i am,when i let go of all concepts" Loved this.
PS:DH must have a very pleasing personality i think..
Yes - beautiful. Similar to Francis saying 'I know that I am, but I don't know what I am'.
Both are absolutely delightful beings, and it's a joy to be in their company.
@@jennybealRight!
Have no doubt about it..😀
Wish you the best. ॐ ❤ 🙏
Man, my two favourite thinkers and people talking to each other, that's an extraordinary treat.
Totally fascinating again. There is a strong relationship between the word whole and holy.Another connection between science and spirituality.
Thank you so much to all involved in this discussion.
Live long and prosper Don 😁
Fantastic from start to finish. Admiration respect and humility.
Francis nerding out more than normal. Wow.
Yes. Unusual to see this side of him. Thought he would talk the experiencing here even tho I knew he had a background in science. But damn, my man knows a lot more than I thought
Thank you Jenny - I deeply appreciate the service you are rendering
An amazing exchange thank you Jenny for your contribution and bringing to us these enriching pidcasts ❤
Good job just letting the conversation unfold.
Consciousness is the "order of function" in everything and everywhere. Consciousness and force cannot be separated. Consciousness is pattern, precision and regularity in everything
Excellent, so inspiring! Thanks, Jenny Beal! ✨🥂🌹🙏
Wow mind blowing conversation that dissolves the mind into the heart . So beautiful to be life playing this game .
The discussion above, vs. this Zen pronouncement: "Stop thinking, stop talking, and there is nothing you will not understand". Understanding is and must be a personal affair. Discussions about understanding are like a sedative in the face of the Infinite. The creation of a concept like The Theory of Everything must have really made God chuckle. At least I hope it was a chuckle...
Great! I will stop thinking and talking and become a trigonometry expert.
What a coup! Happy you pulled it off. Great synergy to move forward. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this! Got to see Francis' scientific mind in this conversation. Also, what a wholesome ending :)
A dream of mine just came true 😊
Brilliant! Both of them!
This is a beautiful dialogue! Deepest thanks!
thanks
The humility with which they present their views, only possible because of their spiritual background.
Don it is called "Leela" by the guru of Adi Shankara. Brshman plays tgis game
I am Interested to know what is beyond Brahman in this cosmology?
Not a video public😢please change public
Done that - pleased you like it.
Thank you - Was great to watch a new duet, may I suggest Donald Hoffman and Dan Winter? x
Thumb up to Francis from math and eng background but a spiritual teacher
I believe he used to design missiles for the French military
I actually disagree with Don when he says at 45:59:
“What the spiritual Traditions haven't yet had access to is this virtuous circle of taking your meanings and turning them into really precise pointers. Pointers that are precise enough to become your tutors - at least for a while.”
Byron Katie has a process of questioning which is very much a virtuous circle of taking our meanings and turning them into very precise pointers of what we truly are. And these pointers very much become our tutors guiding us ever deeper to understanding our nature.
The distinction between what can be described (the phenomenal) and what cannot be described (noumenal) is important here. What we truly are cannot be described - noumenal. The answers we give to the questions form a virtuous circle becoming our tutors and take us to realising that to which we are not open. That realisation then becomes our tutor for the next level of understanding of what we are in the virtuous circle.
Very beautifully expressed
I've just realised an interesting connection. We can be fine with entanglement and accept that 2 qbits in Bell state will measure to the same without one 'causing' the other to the same state. Nor there being some hidden variable that would be the cause of both outcomes. But the assumption that life is classical and e.g. my thoughts are uncorrelated with thoughts of others traces back to the belief that there's someone here so if they were correlated one would be causing the thought of another.
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Hi guys I don't fully understand the smoke and fire inference and consciousness knowing itself.
Is it because you need consciousness knowing itself as your primary experience allowing you to connect two perceptions together given that a perception cannot perceive? We know perceptions that change against the background of consciousness that does not... Thanks..
Hi Nathan, Francis is saying that most people think we know we are conscious only through inference - not through direct experience. The inference goes like this: I know I’m conscious only because I’m conscious of perceptions e.g. I see a chair, so I must be conscious. In other words, in the absence of perceptions I wouldn’t know I’m conscious.
But he explains that this is faulty logic because inference requires prior experience. If an alien didn’t have previous experience of smoke being associated with fire, when he saw smoke, he wouldn’t immediately think ‘Oh there must be fire somewhere’. So to be able to say that I know I’m conscious (=I know there is fire) because I have perceptions (= because there is smoke), you must have had prior experience of consciousness (=fire). Which demonstrates that you know consciousness directly - not just through inference. It’s a proof by contradiction - very common in mathematics.
This is important as it shows that consciousness is self-conscious. And it opens the door to the possibility of consciousness without perceptions.
my head is about to explode. too complicated for me. For me, Nkosi is the best spiritual scientist.
You can look to spirituality for insight on where to look for the next scientific discoveries that go beyond the ones already understood, or you can look at it from the other side; and I think if you do, you will be met with open arms by the scientific community. While "round earth" doctrines in spirituality didn't play a significant role in causing the Copernican revolution, in the absence of the data and tools, scientist surely could have taken that route in another version of history or a possible world; meaning, if we extend the analogy of the Copernican Revolution to scientists today, then the parallel that can be made is that there is something in present day spirituality that is stopping scientific advancement. While the analogy is not perfect, and it doesn't seem to be a lack of technology and tools forming the obstacle - although, as I have said, there is no reason this is not it - it is the human experience of reality that is being upheld and maintained by spirituality upheld by social norms, culture, society and political and organized religion. What I am saying is that just like the spirituality stopped scientists from creating a theory that required the very assumption to be taken de facto that was prohibited by the spiritual practices of the day, scientist are today looking towards non-duality philosophy for critiques of spiritual practices so that their peers in the scientific community can agree with their new assumptions about the human experience of reality. In other words, when marijuana and psilocybin are legalized, which will likely happen long before enough of the public achieve a degree of proficiency in non-duality philosophy and awakening meditation, a sufficient consensus among the general public will be achieved regarding experiences about the "connectedness," "perfect patterns and beauty," and "synchronicity" of nature and the nature of reality, to provide the assumptions to base new theory upon that today our spirituality stops us from agreeing on. You can see that it is old spirituality holding us back or new spirituality providing answers, either way it is the same obstacle that history faced when the earth and therefore, humans, were the center of the solar system and their cosmology. I am not sure if this is true, but I just had the idea of the perfect parallel: what if while the Copernican revolution was about assumptions that would one day become common sense but at that time would put you in hell, if now it is about some assumptions that will put you in jail. What if it is somehow the truth was illegal, while back then, the truth was immoral. So if I am right, then it isn't religious authority at all that is the obstacle, but it is national and political authority that is stopping the scientists from being able to have the assumptions they need to base the theory and hypotheses on to make advances.
Multi verses (according to theories) are on this world but in another dimension. This meand they are closer than we think but simultaneously farther than we assume. Scientific "theory" of duality. Ying & Yang, per say (,I have no evidence of Ying & Yang, dont ask)
I had to laugh at Francis here. I sat with him once and asked him a question that involved quantum physics and his response was "I am not a scientist and not qualified to speak about physics..." Damn liar. He could hold his ground with anyone in physics I suspect :)
Couldn’t watch this. Nothing personal against Francis but I struggle to understand what he means and loose interest.
I like both speakers but I just cannot listen to Francis because of his heavy French accent
Mister Hoffman makes the following fallacy: A. "Human conception of reality i s finetuned to EVOLUTIONARY survival" and B. "Time and space are UNREAL human constructs" Contradiction:: EVOLUTION (A) CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT TIME, as evolution i s a PREMISS of time (B). Conclusion: Mister Hoffman's theory proved WRONG. Lukas Lukason, Denmark.
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