Thanks for watching - if this is your first video seeing the start of my vinyl journey can I please suggest you watch my first video see here czcams.com/video/ZPDaNTKQWT4/video.html - it will create a lot more context.
This is what an audiophile journey should look like. I am glad you are starting to enjoy vinyl playback. Congrats on your phonostage findings. From my experience, a good phonostage that has a good amount of gain is important. The second is the cartridge. When I went from a MM cart to a MC cartridge (Hana ML), there was a huge difference in sound and again the phonostage is just as important. Invest in a record cleaning machine and few other accessories. This will extend the life of your cart and vinyl records. But most important, sit down and enjoy the music. Cheers Terry. Great follow up video.
Hi Terry, interesting to hear your solution to the issue with the mismatch between the phono stage and the cartridge. If you haven’t actually parted with the whopping £950 which your good friends at Avid want you to fork over, I recommend trying a few better cartridges first. After all, if the cartridge hasn’t pulled the information out of the groove, no amount of fancy electronics will get it back. I asked a Rega dealer for advice on upgrading the cartridge on a friends P1, which by the looks of it is the same as on your Avid, as is the arm. Their recommendation was a Goldring E3 at £99. It’s a straight swap, being the same weight and height, however, they tell me it is a far better sounding cartridge and that’s from a Rega dealer, remember. I do know that the Audio Technica VM95E works really well with the Zen phono and that comes in a version with a more sophisticated stylus profile (VM95ML) for similar money to the Goldring. As regards clicks and pops, as you go up the ladder to a better arm and a cartridge with a better stylus profile, these unwanted noises will reduce significantly. Playing records on a turntable with no cover, on the other hand, is not going to help. Also, a record cleaning machine should be on your shopping list, I think you’re going to need one. Good luck on your continuing vinyl journey.
Thanks for embracing vinyl Terry! I am seeing a lot of young shoppers in my record stores along with us older enthusiasts, so very much appreciate your badly needed videos for the analog lovers.
I am 68. Vinyl in the 70s. MC cartridge, etc. I know the process. Dropped out for decades…Came back during Covid…built a $20K Digital Streaming/SACD/CD System..made a few mistakes, but have arrived at a very happy place. 🙂Have done a TON of research. My take: Digital is as good as vinyl, NOW. (BETTER for me)…but…I am REALLY enjoying you open-minded, noob journey into this 🕳 🐇 in the modern era. You are doing a great job and your humble honesty is FANTASTIC! (So far…you are also confirming "my" choices for "me" 😄). This is super interesting and fun and I hope that you continue…I'll be searching out good recordings in the meantime…😎
The one piece of advice that I took and ran with and found absolutely true - wet clean your records. All of em. Brand new ones, especially. The amount of crap in the grooves that needs to be flushed out is MINDBLOWING, and I saw by far the biggest improvement in sound from adding this into the routine.
Cheers Terry. I always immediately click the 'like' button as a course of habit. Really glad you're getting into turntables, they are extremely worthy, when set up correctly and they offer that physical connection that streaming doesn't have. The Origin Live Cartridge Enabler (about £25) helps to isolate vibrations coming back through the tonearm. It works, it really tidies the low to mid frequencies and brings better timing.
I am so glad that you are enjoying your vinyl journey. You have learned a huge amount in a short space of time. Some people I know still don't understand the importance of upgrading certain accessories. Unfortunately, once you get the bug, you may not know when to stop. As you saw when you went to Avid, their range of turntables go well north of 20 grand. Have fun. Oh and you will hear more detail, and better instrument separation when you upgrade the cartridge, turntable and tone arm. But where you are now is great. My first turntable was £150. Lol.
Perk of the job allows access to toys I might not have otherwise and definitely would have taken me a lot longer, Downside I have to keep making videos about them haha
The vinyl revival encouraged me to go get my gear out of the loft and set it all up again about fifteen years ago. I still had my Pink Triangle and Mission 774 arm, although the PT developed a fault after a few years and I had to replace the PSU and motor for a DC version. Right now I am using a Michell Prisma with the Mission 774 and Ortofon 540MkII. I got the Prisma off eBay a few years ago and love it (visually it is stunning). Even though some may argue is is a lesser turntable to the PT, I think it is just as good. There is just something special about vinyl; it encourages you to sit and listen to a side at a time and I think more care is taken over the mix and engineering for vinyl. Some of the latest vinyl by people like Jack White (check out 3rd Man Records) is really excellent, both in sound quality and performance. I was also fortunate that I also didn't sell my vinyl from the 70's and 80's, so have a nice collection to listen to.
One of the iFi ZEN Phono gain settings, MC High, offers 48db gain, the same amount that the Avid Pellar does according to the specs. The MC High setting also have 47kOhm load for the cartridge. This setting is intended for high output moving coil (MC) cartridges, but since that type of cartridge wants to see a 47kOhm load the setting also is suitable for a regular moving magnet (MM) cartridge that is a litte low on output voltage. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here :)
Hi Mikael, your totally right and I thought the exact same thing and tried it, but it didn't really solve my issue or make the sound better, louder yes but also more edgy. Its very possible I did something else wrong but I did try that too.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem This is a good point to suggest, in the future, to have a similar priced phono stage shoot-out. If you are able to collect some at some point.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Hi Terry this short video may explain the some of the traits you are hearing with the AT3600. My opinion with the lower end AT carts is that AT uses the AT3600 is many of their lower end turntables that have built it phono preamps and thus have have the capacitance of the tonearm wires only and not the added capacitance of inter connect cables and thus give a more rolled off top end. Check out the video. Cheers! czcams.com/video/hBxFgqn2JK4/video.html
Good point in the video. Say what you will about that cartridge. On that turntable it is unbelievably underrated. The player demonstrates how much better it can be as you upgrade the cartridge as you go forward.
Back in 1971 I got a turntable, speakers and receiver. All for $500. Turntable and receiver Made in Japan and speakers made in the USA. Cerwin Vega and Sansui. Incredible sound.
Congrats on your journey into Vinyl. I am old school and find it to be the most fun way to listen, it is my hope you will also find it a lot of fun. One thing to note records are the DIVA of playback media. If the pop and ticks are getting to be a nuisance, then I suggest you investigate how clean your records truly are. Not all record cleaning technologies are equal. I suggest taking a few records to your favorite Hi-Fi haunt and have them cleaned on whatever they are selling. Nitty Gritty, VPI, Audio Desk, what have you... and see if the surface noise improves over the method you are currently using. From my experience albeit you never really get rid of all the pops, most of the time they do not occur on a record that has been thoroughly cleaned. For me, there has been many of times, people have come over to the house and thought that I was playing a CD instead of a record. That, I suggest be a target goal if you get more serious about playing records.
First album i bought was Heart - Little Queen in 1977. I feel lucky now, i collected many many albums and my dad collected 100's of Classical and because he was a tech at Tech HiFi of Boston and Bose and he taught me about taking care of records early on . 13 years ago just before vinyl came back into fashion i struggled to justify $350 for an Oracle Delphi Mk2 , $175 for an SME series 3 arm and $350 for a Shure V15Vxmr cartridge. Sooo glad i got them when i did......
By the middle of my hi-fi journey, I was almost addicted to cartridge upgrades. But today I actually keep coming back to the Rega Carbon/Audio Technica AT 3600 L, the derivative of which comes with the Avid Ingenium. Today I'm actually standing at the AT91 with an elyptic, naked stylus (Analogis Black Diamond), i.e. the successor to the AT 3600 L. The system sounds simply fantastic and in my opinion surpasses Goldring G1006, Ortofon 2M Blue, Sumiko Rainier. If you have this Avid turntable or a Rega with the Rega Carbon cartridge, you should definitely try the Analogis Black Diamond stylus. The change is child's play. I can assure you that it is worth it.
Thank you for your update Terry - glad that you enjoy vinyl alongside digital too. My record collection more than doubled overnight after inheriting the vinyl from my late parents - so invested in a better turntable, cartridge and phono stage. To reduce pops from vinyl I found ultrasonic cleaning really made a difference. You can go low end - Hummingbird - or generic on the cheap, or Degritter at the other end of the scale. As for the mat: some turntables are specifically designed to be used without. It will also introduce a tiny change in the stylus’ vertical tracking angle due to the thickness of the mat. Avid have a real good reputation for their turntables of course. Keep up the great work - I enjoy your channel!
Yeah I would love a dergritter machine, but its overkill for the 25 records I own, Although if they wanted to send me one I would say yes in a heart beat
Terry, nice follow-up. Being so open about your missteps is great. I can relate to your thirst for knowledge. Keep up the insightful work and please share the even smaller steps in your vinyl journey.
Hi Terry, interesting video and a similar journey that I took a number of years ago. Your experience with upgrading your phono stage was similar to mine. Another improvement was an arm upgrade which can make so much difference and improve a budget cartridge no end, this bears out your explanation of a good base for the cartridge to work at its best. keep up the good work. Here’s another music recommendation for a vinyl purchase; Talk Talk: the Colour of Spring. It sounds amazing on my record player.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I've got the 2012 version. It has a cd with it also. I haven't heard the original version to compare, sorry. The pressing is very good, not sure if it was remastered though🤔....
The platter mat rabbit hole is never ending, everyone of them sounds different and everything you can come up with yourself as diy mats sound different. Can be a lot of fun but never ending.
Great video thanks Terry, having been a vinyl junkie for many years I think you were spot on with your findings and views. Enjoy the rest of your journey and I look forward to your next vinyl video
Great very useful video. That comment someone made about a phono stage being like,a DAC (either in analogous function or importance), is a strained simile. A phone cartridge is much more analogous to a DAC, while a phone stage is serving as the preamp. But i think we know that. The relative importance and affect of different cartridges are much more equivalent in their contributions to a DAC also,
Terry, I'm glad you're enjoying your journey. I'm only a few years ahead of you w/ vinyl, and I'm enjoying it, too. I have a Pro-Ject RPM 5, which came with a Sumiko Amethyst MM Cartridge. Probably reasonably similar to what you have. I didn't want to spend any more upgrading anything until I knew I was getting the most out of what I had. I chose to invest in an inexpensive cavitation cleaner and (expensive, crap I was surprised!) cartridge setup tools. My cartridge came pre set from Pro-Ject, but it sounded remarkably better after I did a proper static setup with a SMARTractor. Later I bought a copy of Analog Magik and did a dynamic setup and it was better again. Two years after that, I did upgrade the cart - to a Hana ML. That cartridge upgrade made about the same difference in sound as a really good setup had previously. But now I have the tools, and I know I'm getting the most out of my Hana ML, too. It's a good point you make about system synergy. For my start, I chose a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 phono stage to match my Pro-Ject deck.
Terry, 2 things, get yourself a milty zerostat 3 gun for the crackles and pops. Not conclusive but makes an audible difference. Try a tube phonostage! I bought a relatively cheap pro-ject tube box s2 and battery pack and the sound is immense, better than my moon lp 110v2 and slightly richer sounding than the onboard phono on my moon 390. You'll have a whole new world of tube rolling to explore too!
I'm pretty sure the gain can be adjusted on the ifi Zen phonostage, might be worth revisiting the instruction manual. Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that certain Audio Technica cartridges perform better via the Zens high output MC input... 🤔
Terry, you are right where you need to be, your turntable and phono preamp is above entry level, but as you know you can always go well beyond what you spent. I consider entry level a project debut or debut carbon with a beginner phono stage from them or a Schiit mani or a beginner Ifi phono stage and please people don’t get offended because all of the stuff I named can still sound good. I think at this point you should spend your time and money on records and even a better record cleaning solution, which can help to get the noise out of the vinyl. After you decided that vinyl is really your thing, then experiment on cartridges, but for now just enjoy the music because you have a beautiful system there.
Terry great video. I certainly am not an audiophile in the true sense of the word, but I can tell you that listening to vinyl is an experience. I think the journey is worth it. Something about getting up to turn the record over, raising and lowering the tone arm all makes it different than digital. It really depends on your mood. Sure digital is easier, just sit and listen, but vinyl takes effort and I think the effort is what makes it enjoyable. If you are a baby boomer like me, hearing the occasional pop and snap of a record brings back great memories. Vinyl does have a sound difference, not so much better but different. To me it has a warmer sound, a sound you can listen to for a long time. Sometimes digital can be tough on the ears, so each has its good and bad. It really depends on your mood. I listen to both and enjoy both very much. Sometimes sitting in the dark, listening to a vinyl record from Hendrix or Pink Floyd is right where I want to be. So enjoy your experience and know that your mood will always dictate how you enjoy the music, whether it is digital or vinyl. Just enjoy!!!!
Glad to see the improvement in vinyl. I agree with the comment related to phono preamp vs the dac. The cartridge is very similar in that way too. It’s good to try multiple carts and preamps to dial things in. I found the best results with the 1/3 rule of thumb. This is from a price standpoint that the turntable , cartridge and preamp should all be in the similar price range. Value is found when something cheaper than the 1/3 rule works better. Just my $0.02. Cheers
there´s a point to be said, i hear vinil or records as we used to call it since i was 12 bought my first lp in 67 , my parents had a large colection of records ,today i have 5.200 in perfect condition, the LP i bought first was the beatles sgt.peppers lonley heart club band ,my second was a Joan Baez LP, then i met the yarbirds ,etc. etc. but why i still listen to records for the fact that records not modern vinyl as better sound than any cd and i have nothing against digital ,i bought my first DAT recorder in 87 from Sony, either than the reels it was the best i ever heard, my question is why selling a poor version of 80´s cd´s who were more resistant and the same price as today ,the reason why till 93 only had 7 cds, but i could record into a DAT cassette all novelties from a cd shop owned by a friend of mine, but rock records why cds sounded so bad well i was explained that the vibration and amplifier distortion on a digital cd it was recognised as noise, the reason why all rock bands of the 90´s only the final product was digital or the cd but if you heard those albums in a record they sounded much better or they sounded as they should
Thank you Terry, enjoy all your videos. I recently resurrected my old turntable, replaced the cartridge and am having fun. Bit shocked at the price of new records though!
I had a whole section of this video moaning about vinyl prices and the lottery of buying them but I cut it out as it was a bit too waffly. Yes buying records is easily the most expensive part of this for sure.
You may need to adjust your memory for inflation. The cost of records isn't much different now than it was in, say, 1970. For example, $4 in 1970 (a typical record price) is approximately $30 now which is not far off most new releases. Audiophile reissues do tend to cost a bit more.
Hi Terry, personally I think that TT should be on a wall shelf, I know it’ll mess with your aesthetics, however, if you’ve got solid walls, getting a nice wall shelf (Quadraspire make one to match your existing rack) you’ll reap some serious sound benefits. You’ll be amazed a just how much sonic vibration comes through the floor, especially with those two big subs.
Thanks Terry for this video. I have recently got back into vinyl so I am searching for a better turntable/record player at the moment. My current player is a cheap technics unit from 20-25 years ago. It works but I am ready to move up in quality. I appreciate the information on the AVID unit. I haven't really looked at those units. I have primarily looked at VPI, Dr. Feickert, and Clearaudio. I appreciate the honesty about the phono stage as well. I understand anything in the signal path makes a huge difference in sound quality as you pointed out in this video. It is quite overwhelming the number of turntables and even more phono stages. As you stated synergy is very important. Now I am even more concerned with picking the correct product. I appreciate you sharing your experiences with vinyl playback.
Fascinating !!! Conrad Mas and his team are a class act. I had extensive dealings with them in trying to come up with a system for my 'forever turntable'.. However, I wish they had a much better distribution network and support in the USA. They seem to be more focused on Europe and Asia. Love their products but am concerned about after sale support..
I’m using an Exposure XM3 Phono Amplifier with my Linn. The XM3 is £850 now, when I bought mine it was £700. I think that would be a great choice for the Avid.
Hi Terry, I use a Nagaoka MP500 moving Magnet cartridge, It’s a fantastic performer, With great detail, dynamics, etc. you’ll be amazed by it’s performance compared to the cartridge your currently using. I highly recommend it.
I have a Rega P3 that I absolutely love, it took me about two years to get the best out of it. I am often surprised just how good something like an Audio Technica AT-VM95E sounds, on a turntable that has been set up well and functions correctly. I found that turntable setup, keeping things absolutely level, and giving it a really good foundation to live on are very important, and should be maximised before upgrading anything. Then the phono stage, as you mention, makes a really big difference and there are synergistic relationships between cartridges and phonos, and those that are not. I use a much less expensive Schiit Mani, with the Swagman Labs power supply, and it sounds really good with the VM95E, but really gels with the Nagaoka MP200. I have settled on being a bit nuts, but now love experimenting with cartridges; I only have a half dozen or so, but it's so much fun to explore the sonic characteristics of each one. Have continued fun in your journey!
Rocking the Mission 770's. Good job guy. BTW, I'm a Vandersteen fanboy, in case you are interested. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but turntable cartridge is pretty good. Avid makes great products, not a piece of crap in their line up. No apologies needed.
I look forward to seeing more of your vinyl journey. As you mentioned, vinyl can be a lottery. A couple of weeks ago, I listened to an album I purchased in the 70’s and it sounded really good. I then listened to something recorded around 5-6 years ago and it sounded lifeless, with the digital version sounding better. Given the cost of vinyl, this can be a bit off putting but I still like the black stuff.
Something that was recorded 5 to 6 years ago is probably just a digital album basically a CD file put on vinyl. If you find old records in great shape they're all analog and newer albums from places like acoustic sounds are all analog and even some of them end up in Walmart occasionally with lesser packaging but still all analog from the master tapes... With older vinyl anything before mid-70s oil crisis we usually be higher quality vinyl itself because of the petroleum products used in manufacturing vinyl records... They got thinner and not virgin vinyl but recycled...
@@B1B904 That is what I had assumed. The more recent recording sounds better in digital so it could be the pressing rather than the recording. I have some vinyl remasters that are probably transferred from digital and some of these sound much better than the original analogue recordings. It really is a lottery.
I highly recommend Koetsu cartridges - and already the Koetsu Black could be all you ever want! It’s worth it, your Avid is the right base for this upgrade…
@@PursuitPerfectSystem well, it’s not cheap, but it’s def less then the rest of your TT system (around $2.400) and it will elevate your system like nothing else!
Awesome video! Your vinyl setup is great. Maybe you are still comparing digital sound to the vinyl sound. It probably takes a bit more time for someone who comes from digital to get used to the vinyl sound. To me, IMHO, listening to vinyl is more of an experience; an experience which has to be openly accepted and enjoyed rather than analyzed. The vinyl mat looks interesting because it sort of mimics the properties of actual vinyl record, and possibly providing more sonic benefits. The cork mat never really worked for me, it made the vinyl playback too soft/spongy with a lot less punch and definition. This video is very refreshing and inspiring to watch!! Kudos! 🤘😊
I strongly suggest investing in a cleaning solution of some kind to lower the noise floor and minimize clicks/pops if you continue to go down this road. An ultrasonic solution is best, but I've found you can get very good results with a 3D-printed item like the Squeaky Clean Vinyl product.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Pressing quality does matter quite a bit. It doesn't matter how clean I get some records they will still sound grainy, while releases from Acoustic Productions and other high-quality producers are dead silent straight out of the mail without any wash at all.
The Ortofon Red that came on my Technics 1500c amplified the ticks and pops to where I didn’t want it. Inexpensive cartridges can either amplify the lower treble to give more apparent detail or roll off and sound bland. Better to go up to the $250-300 range to get something worth listening to. I’ve had good results with the Nagaoka mp200 and Denon 301 mk2. Nothing to pricey but much better than the under $100 ones I’ve tried. I didn’t hear much difference between the Zen phono and the built in phono of the Denon a100 integrated. Both good.
The Red is fine and I have been using it on and off for over a decade - this company has been doing this for 63 years - safe to say they know what they are doing. I have no idea what your comment about ticks and pops was supposed to demonstrate.
I'm using the mofi studio phono with my ingenium guy's and I'm getting decent gain ( not as much as my dac but respectable) so a expensive phono stage isn't a absolute necessity. Also got the upgraded platter and running a goldring g1042....she's staring to sing now..lol...origin live zephyr arm next, although that'll take a bit of saving for.
Regarding the cartridge, I agree with most here that a good MC cart will sound better. However, the stylus does wear out over time (some peeps say somewhere between 1000 and 3000 hours). I would recommend that you keep what you have, and plan on an upgrade in a year or two (once your ears have adjusted fully to the sound) when you can pinpoint what you want a better cart to do.
Terry, first I love your choice of starter turntable! Going with Avid is a bit like going with the lowest priced Ferrari for your first car. Second, Is that Avid cartridge a rebranded Audio-Technica or is it a true Avid in house made cart? I'd say that now you have a good phono stage too just get a really nice MM cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Black or Bronze or the new Sumiko Wellfleet and you'll be set for awhile.
Thanks, yeah I will look at cartridges in the future but its important I take steps slowly to appreciate and understand each one much more, otherwise it will be difficult to know what has done what down the line.
I made a bit of the upgrade path on my Project DC Carbon: acrylic platter, better grounded power supply, aluminum sub platter, swapped the 2m red for bronze. The cartridge made a huge difference, sub platter a real difference, the rest I couldn't tell? Phono stage is internal in my Naim Nait xs3. Sound is quite similar to digital tight and clear.
You actually convinced me with your first video on the Ingenium to pull the trigger on one. I now own a limited white one. I heard about its reputation as a really solid drive with a lot of upgrade potential. I am now using my Ingenium with an Origin Live Silver arm, an AT95 in the Shibata version, and the upgraded aluminium platter. This is hooked up to a tube phone stage slightly above the Pellar price range. The journey was the goal and every upgrade brought more listening enjoyment. It will be interesting to see how you will continue. I wanted a really solid drive and tonearm that sounds good with a more low end cartridge. I buy a lot of used vinyl and play lots of records, so I want the wearing parts (ie cartridge) to be decent but affordable.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem actually, no… on a standard Ingenium, my local distributor claims to run it with up to an Illustrious… with good results. My white unit however is I believe made with a dipping lacquer… so I had to sand down the hole for the arm to remove the lacquer… then the Origin Live arms fit like a charm. They use ”old Rega” fastening, not the ”new 3-point”. But there is an adapter ring from Origin that covers the holes and then you are at exactly the same height as with a Rega as well. So no guessing for the VTA, with pickups the same height as the carbon. So eg the Hana ML or similar would also fit with no adjustment necessary. And of course with the Origin arm you could adjust the VTA the way you need it.
Thanks for this explanation, some of this is a little beyond me at the minute but its useful to know what options might be available to consider, I assumed there might not be any
@@PursuitPerfectSystem there are options. I have to admit that it was hard to find out. Origin themselves were not sure, but then I asked my local distributor and he was sure. So I ordered the arm, swore not so silently about my dipping lacquer problem, but had the arm installed in an hour despite that hiccup. Sounds awesome. And the platter upgrade, exxpensive as it seems at first sight, is worth it. Still cheaper than e.g. A Transrotor Dark Star with the Ucello (Goldring 1000 series variant). We will see whether and where I go from here… Been in touch with Avid too - very nice contact. Lots of tips, I will let you know when I have employed their next performance tip. ;-)
Hello Terry, please consider this more of a message rather than a comment on your video. I don't want to come across as criticising your vinyl adventure, you are a very accomplished audiophile and this game is all about subjective opinion rather than anything absolutely objectivity, however, I have some concerns. I have been watching your excellent channel since lockdown in early 2020 and I've been impressed with amount and the quality of the equipment that you have reviewed over the last couple of years, you really do seem to know what you are talking about and you have a genuine joy and love for what you do. Vinyl is different and quite frankly at the moment you are trying to get high end results with entry level equipment and that is never going to work. Something like your Avid turntable, arm and cartridge plus phono stageI would partner with a £1000 integrated amplifier and £1000 pair of speakers, using them with a £5000 amp and £3500 pair of speaker plus pricey subs seems like a totally unbalanced system. Vinyl reproduction is all about front end; turntable, arm and cartridge first, phono stage second, amp and speakers third back in the 70's both Ivor Tiefenbrun and Rega founder Roy Gandy both came to this same conclusion. You are used to relatively high end digital sources feed great amps and speakers at the moment you're using a relatively modest set up feeding a great amp and speakers. Is the result ever going to be that satisfying? I use a Dr Feickert Woodpecker Turntable, with a VPI 12 inch arm and an Ortofon Cadenza Black Cartridge, these feed a Musical Fidelity Nu Vista phono stage into Musical Fidelity Nu Vista 800 into a Pair of PMC 2025i speakers. So my amp and speakers are of a similar level to the Leema/ Mission set up you are using but my front end is all together far more than the price of my amp and speakers. I also have invested in a Degritter ultra sonic record cleaner that makes a huge difference in reducing the noise floor Moving magnet cartridges are relatively noisy compared to moving coil, but to a moving coil cartridge justice you do need a turntable and arm that can cope. My advice would be at this stage to see if you could get a Rega RP10 package with one of their MC cartridges fitted in for review and see if you feel about vinyl after hearing it on a set up that equates better to your excellent speakers and amp. At the moment you literally have a Ferrari with Ford Focus engine. The reason I recommend the Rega is that they are relatively simply even for a novice, there's no VTA adjustment required or azimuth angle adjustment, simply align the cartridge, set the tracking weight and anti-skate (bias) and you are off. I would also recommend getting some means of cleaning your records, that can be as basic at the Disco antistat (about £100 all included) or if you are committed to vinyl now a a £400 to £500 vacuum cleaning from Pro-Ject. There's no need to go to expense that I've gone to to get great results, however a set up more akin in level to your amplifier and speakers will demonstrate to you the absolute sonic value in vinyl records, done well a good Turnable, Arm, Cartridge and Phono Stage will blow away any digital source and really get you back to the music. Please feel free to contact me if you'd like more advice or info. Best wishes Ian
Hi Ian, thanks for the comments I have owned a project record cleaning machine for a few years, cleaned all my records now twice actually because the first time I used the wrong ratio of solution to water. Turns out this time I used the wrong water so I will have to do them all again. Lucky I dont own many. I came into this with no expectations really, like I said this setup is sounding pretty good now, I am not expecting miracles but its important I am honest about my experiences, thats the whole point of documenting the journey. Its not a journey if you start at the end of it and most YoUTube videos will be by someone at the end not the beginning. Its also not the right time for me to make any big changes. I need to iron out all my basic skills first like cleaning records properly and even anti static them properly, I have been doing that wrong too. I need the basics down before I look to change anything. Otherwise I would not fully appreciate the differences between an A / B TT setup and I would report on it incorrectly. Reporting with honesty I think is fine, but trying to limit your accidental mis information I thin k is really important. I will get there just give me some time. Thank for your very kind words I appreciate them
Watching you video, it looks like there's one thing you may have overlooked. Cartridge break in. Its not like any other components break in period. Its much more noticeable. I've had brand new carts that I thought were defective they sounded so bad. You could literally hear a change from record to record. The first 25 hours, or so, are the most critical. Around 100 hours is usually plenty of time for everything to break in the way its supposed to. When you were talking about your initial impressions, that was most likely a factor.
Between my ifi zen phono and my high end (4000,- ) tube amp i placed a chinese fx audio tube buffer preamp (35,-) to power up the ifi zen Signal And it works very well for me.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem This little chinese Thing has a trible and Bass Tone Controll too, it ads alittle more 'tubiness also but does NOT deteriorate the Signal. It works. For many audiophiles, what i did is a kinda no go. But i would recommend a try for all, who can't afford an expensive Phono pre. Pin pint imaging, wide soundstage, pretty hollographic and the right amount of "tubiness 😉, Idler drive dynamics. Im using a refurbished dual 1219 another rule-breaker for the Szene. Fully automatic + ortofon 2m blue at the end of this chain (got another one with klipsch quartets) im using spendor 35/1 also known as Spendor preludes from the late 80's (Ls3/5 a Tone with Bass 😀 ) Its a mixed vintage and New System. The amp is totally high end New, german manufactured. Ok, long Story You are dringend a great Job. I really enjoy your channel and lernen a lot from you. Thanks a lot. Greetings from germany
The accelerometer based turn speed apps are always a little off in my experience. Use the stobe disk and a stobe app on your phone, or an actual stobe if you want it to be correct.
The phone app I dont think takes into account the phone weight which will be higher than a record and therefore spin a little faster with the record on surely?? The strobe set I bought cost me £50 and it does work, but I couldn't really see any adjustment iI was trying to make to know if what I am doing is better or worse
As good as that AT $10 cartridge sounds I would upgrade it immediately. With a proper HiFi-cart you normally run the stylus weight in around 1,5 g not 3 g.
I know it sounds crazy but the biggest leap in my vinyl experience has been learning how to handle it properly. Up until recently I would pinch it at the very edge to pull it out of the cover. After months of watching some pros like The In Sound and 46rpm audiophile, I've now learnt how to properly handle it. This in turn hasassively lessened the pops and clicks on those entry tracks of the record.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I'm sure you've heard of him but watch any shootout by Mike Esposito on The In Groove, he's a master at handling and once you overcome how unnatural it looks, it really does make a huge improvement. It's taken me years to figure this out 😃
Really strange you had a volume problem with the Ifi phono stage. Your cart looks to be an Audio-Technica ATN3600L which has a 4.2mv output. I do see the Ifi only has 36db gain for MM but with a 4.2mv output I wouldn't think that an issue. You weren't running a passive preamp at the time were you? Either way, I think it's always better to have a great phono stage and a lesser cart than the other way around. Some budget carts sound waaaay better than people realize once you unlock their full potential. You made a good move! Since you're a huge digital fan, you should try getting some original pressings of any older music you enjoy, back when everything was all analog, and compare it with a DAC setup. Would be interesting to see what you find the sonic differences are.
I had a whole section of the video talking about this, but I cut it out as it was a bit too waffly. Older records def sound different, more of their time compared to cd versions of the same music. I have bought a 1982 Thriller, waiting for that to turn up and the 1981 Tracy Chapman., I am trying but it takes times as its all expensive.
You really should move up to a better cartridge. Like Audio Technica AT-VM95 ML it will be a big improvement over what you have and it will work well withyour tonearm.
I'm keen to follow your progress as I'm going through a something similar (mistakes aplenty too). How are you levelling your surface? My floor is slightly off and my entry level turntable's feet aren't adjustable.
The weak link in your vinyl playback system wasn't the Zen phono preamp, it was the cartridge. The Avid cartridge is just a re-badged cheap Audio Technica. If you tried something like a Nagaoka MP-110 or Nagaoka MP-150 you would see and hear the difference.
I can see why you would think that, but I changed the phono stage and this cartridge then sounded great, I think in that instance its fair to say its not the cartridge was the weakest link, it could well be me as the weakest link but as I explained in the video I tried everything I could
Great video and well explained. I personally think you’ve gone down the correct route with a MM cartridge. Rationale being that if / when you do look to move to a MC cart and high-end Phono-stage you will see a noticeable increase in performance. I recent moved from a Debut Carbon MM to a REGA P8 / Apheta 3 / Aria Mk3 and had a huge “wow” moment. Q please - what is the wooden isolation base you have under the TT please ?
Replace the cartridge on your Avid turntable with a Ortophon blue, an awesome cartridge and amazing for the money. It sounds like you're moving magnet cartridge might just have a low output closer to a moving coil but that's just my guess because I've heard really good things about the I-fi zen and I've never heard anybody having problems with low output unless the cartridge itself is low output... I like my turntable because it has the bayonet mount , so I can switch out between different pickups very easily. Love that avid turntable where is it made?...England?
the croft acoustics riaa phono stages good for £500 valve can't go wrong. and bias anti skate can have a big bearing usually slightly under is better! not keeping it to the weight of the cartridge should be adjusted with headphones or using a scope, same adjusting the weight of the cartridge usually heavier gives you stronger bass and vice versa. I would use a ball bearing to level the platter more accurate than the level has to be done on the hard surface not the mat.
Well I had to comment on your video. I have had an Ifi Zen phono and thought it a very good phono pre amp with more than enough gain. With the Audio Tehcnica AT3600 cart you should be running it on the LOW MOVING COIL setting on the Pre amp. You also need to use the shortest low capacitance cable you have. Also the little short cable supplied with the Ifi should not be used. This will smooth out the highs and give you lots of gain. Also I think you need to replace the cart, honestly almost any cart will will be better than the AT3600. I believe, if you want to stay with Audio Technica try the AT vm95en. For the price you can't beat it. Detail and clarity will be drastically improved and it is a lot easier to mount with its threaded nut inserts. Please upgrade that cartridge your ears will thank you. Cheers!
I did try using the other gain settings and that raised the volume some but it didnt change the sound profile issue I was having and made the sound more edgy and it didn't seem right to me. Its possible I was doing something else wrong though
Will no doubt notice a similar change in sound quality when and if you decide to upgrade the cartridge. Really is quite a difference between different brands and models and you don't necessarily have to go for a very expensive cartridge either.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Agreed. Just mentioned it in terms of "scaleability" now that you have a proper phono preamp. Vinyl is a lot of fun, especially when you get to the point you mention in the video where you can just sit down and enjoy the music. Enjoy the journey!
Hi Terry! Great video! How would You compare analog setup to digital systems so far in terms of the same cost and quality factors? I know that's subjective but could You say at this point which one produces better overall sound for the money?
Wash your records if the surface noise is that bad, even new records are dirty. This heipt me with the surface noise. Like the video's and enjoy jour records
Hi Mate. It is important that the tonearm / cartridge fundamental resonant frequency is between 7 and 9 HZ. Not all arms work with all cartridges. A high compliance cartridge in a high mass arm will not track properly. Same for a low compliance cartridge in a low mass arm. One way to ruin your records is not to thoroughly clean and vacuum them before the very first play.
I have been cleaning them all using a Project VTE machine, but I dont think I am getting them as clean as I could so I will look into it more, maybe I am doing something wrong.
..just thinking Terry, my platter upgrade and goldring g1042 with the mofi studio phono comes in at around the same cost of your Avid peller....a pity we don't stay close, it'd be a interesting comparison.lol.
I will be looking at the Platter upgrade next Mark so that will be interesting to see what that does. Have you seen there is also now motor upgrades as well, not cheap but it will get the performance closer to the DIVA II SP
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Just had a look at those upgrades the speed box and the psu, pricey, also that platter upgrade has jumped up £100, I'm glad I got mine along with the ingenium, both at the old price.
I work in the trade, I didn't get the TT through the usual dealer channels but yes your right they might gave suggested a different pairing but ultimately if I said no I want to go this route then its on me right
Next up, a record cleaning machine to eliminate most of the crackles and pops. Careful as well with storage, including eliminating paper sleeves for rice paper, and storing records upright and fairly tightly packed. Understand as well, the better the cartridge the less ticks and pops are apparent. The time will come when the advantage of MC cartridges will become apparent as well.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Okay. Whether you use a home brew or Project's fluid do a wash with distilled water after cleaning. Clean your stylus back to front with a stiff brush after every record, preferably after every side. The last thing you want is an uneven buildup of hardened dirt on one side of the stylus. At least once every six months use a stylus cleaning fluid, one without alcohol. Audioquest makes a good brush for your records. Tilt one row of brushes to the right to catch the dust while the TT is spinning, then tilt to the left on the unused row of brushes as you slowly bring the brush to the edge, then off of the record. Audio Intelligence makes a nice stylus cleaning fluid, as does Lyra, Last, and MoFi. I prefer the Audio Intelligence. Alcohol on the stylus will in time dissolve the bonding material of stylus tip to shank of cantilever. The voltage of the phono signal is very weak and delicate at only 0.004 to 0.005, and it's very sensitive to the type of cable use as the interface between phono stage and TT. I like silver cables (I use Nordost) because of their purity, speed and detail, but Cardas and Morrow make good cheaper cables.
Please get a better cartridge. Try the AT95 ML or SH to start with. I don't see that mat being of benefit with an Avid due to the platter design. With that pricey phono stage a MC cartridge should be your aim.
Yeah, AVID called me to say this matt is not really suitable for their TT designs. I think this one might be ok because its Vinyl so it would be just like I am using a thicker record but even so I will save it for the future when I get a chance to play with something different,
Sadly there are no beginners in LP now, especially after mofi controversy, gen z wouldn't be attracted to Vinyls anymore, so sorry to say but try to cover Vinyl for seasoned audiences and beginners digital setups for gen z.
Terry, if you want to remove as much noise as possible in your turntable setup, you should have a look at the Soundeck steel platter mat video on CZcams. czcams.com/video/KdZ8wMtDRwY/video.html Soundeck is a UK based company that makes many damping products for audiophiles such as damping feet, damping pucks. There's another video where you can see how their products are made and the business philosophy. It's very interesting.
I find it frustrating buying records. Most of them sound bad or avarage new releases come often with defects warpage. It's like buying a kinder bueno for + £20
Hi Paul, best is email please terryellis@pursuitperfectsystem.com I also have website dedicated to my calibration work www.diraclivecalibration.com Thanks
I have been there and done i and believe me you will constantly upgrading and spending monies and will never be satisfied with what you have until you realise you already have it.
There is a lot of snake oil and bullshit in hifi - perhaps nowhere more so than in vinyl playback. Rigidity is paramount, second to which are arm/cart set up and motor noise. I have an excellent digital source, but spend most of my time with vinyl. Despite obvious points about s/n ratio and distortion, it seems (to me) much more immediate and visceral in the midband especially. You will prise my Rega 8 only from my cold, dead hands.
Cant believe he paid thousands of dollars and ended up with whats essentially a bottom of the barrel AT 3600L entry level cartridge - understandable on entry level table (which this is not) but NOT on this level of gear.
Maybe you didn't listen to my detailed explanation about the sound quality of this setup, regardless of what you think this cartridge will sound like it doesn't on this turntable with this phono stage. This delivers way beyond entry level sound, a sound befitting the units price tag. I did explain this all in detail. No need to be pedantic in your comments because it reads as ignorance when all has already been explained
Records were great in the '70s then God created CDs. It is fine if you like distortion. To each there own. Records are distorted the day you buy them and get worse every day after that. Tubes are distorted also but I like that sound.
Thanks for watching - if this is your first video seeing the start of my vinyl journey can I please suggest you watch my first video see here czcams.com/video/ZPDaNTKQWT4/video.html - it will create a lot more context.
This is what an audiophile journey should look like. I am glad you are starting to enjoy vinyl playback. Congrats on your phonostage findings. From my experience, a good phonostage that has a good amount of gain is important. The second is the cartridge. When I went from a MM cart to a MC cartridge (Hana ML), there was a huge difference in sound and again the phonostage is just as important. Invest in a record cleaning machine and few other accessories. This will extend the life of your cart and vinyl records. But most important, sit down and enjoy the music. Cheers Terry. Great follow up video.
Hi Terry, interesting to hear your solution to the issue with the mismatch between the phono stage and the cartridge. If you haven’t actually parted with the whopping £950 which your good friends at Avid want you to fork over, I recommend trying a few better cartridges first. After all, if the cartridge hasn’t pulled the information out of the groove, no amount of fancy electronics will get it back.
I asked a Rega dealer for advice on upgrading the cartridge on a friends P1, which by the looks of it is the same as on your Avid, as is the arm. Their recommendation was a Goldring E3 at £99. It’s a straight swap, being the same weight and height, however, they tell me it is a far better sounding cartridge and that’s from a Rega dealer, remember. I do know that the Audio Technica VM95E works really well with the Zen phono and that comes in a version with a more sophisticated stylus profile (VM95ML) for similar money to the Goldring.
As regards clicks and pops, as you go up the ladder to a better arm and a cartridge with a better stylus profile, these unwanted noises will reduce significantly. Playing records on a turntable with no cover, on the other hand, is not going to help. Also, a record cleaning machine should be on your shopping list, I think you’re going to need one.
Good luck on your continuing vinyl journey.
Thanks for embracing vinyl Terry! I am seeing a lot of young shoppers in my record stores along with us older enthusiasts, so very much appreciate your badly needed videos for the analog lovers.
I love your approach to this thing Terry, keep it up, it's valuable content for those of us who have not yet moved to the vinyl world yet.
I am 68. Vinyl in the 70s. MC cartridge, etc. I know the process. Dropped out for decades…Came back during Covid…built a $20K Digital Streaming/SACD/CD System..made a few mistakes, but have arrived at a very happy place. 🙂Have done a TON of research. My take: Digital is as good as vinyl, NOW. (BETTER for me)…but…I am REALLY enjoying you open-minded, noob journey into this 🕳 🐇 in the modern era. You are doing a great job and your humble honesty is FANTASTIC! (So far…you are also confirming "my" choices for "me" 😄). This is super interesting and fun and I hope that you continue…I'll be searching out good recordings in the meantime…😎
The one piece of advice that I took and ran with and found absolutely true - wet clean your records. All of em. Brand new ones, especially. The amount of crap in the grooves that needs to be flushed out is MINDBLOWING, and I saw by far the biggest improvement in sound from adding this into the routine.
Yes. I have a magnifying glass which I use before cleaning and after cleaning. Astounding what dust and gunk gets removed.
Cheers Terry. I always immediately click the 'like' button as a course of habit. Really glad you're getting into turntables, they are extremely worthy, when set up correctly and they offer that physical connection that streaming doesn't have. The Origin Live Cartridge Enabler (about £25) helps to isolate vibrations coming back through the tonearm. It works, it really tidies the low to mid frequencies and brings better timing.
I am so glad that you are enjoying your vinyl journey. You have learned a huge amount in a short space of time. Some people I know still don't understand the importance of upgrading certain accessories. Unfortunately, once you get the bug, you may not know when to stop. As you saw when you went to Avid, their range of turntables go well north of 20 grand. Have fun. Oh and you will hear more detail, and better instrument separation when you upgrade the cartridge, turntable and tone arm. But where you are now is great. My first turntable was £150. Lol.
Perk of the job allows access to toys I might not have otherwise and definitely would have taken me a lot longer, Downside I have to keep making videos about them haha
That was a good description of the issues you faced and how you dealt with them.
The vinyl revival encouraged me to go get my gear out of the loft and set it all up again about fifteen years ago. I still had my Pink Triangle and Mission 774 arm, although the PT developed a fault after a few years and I had to replace the PSU and motor for a DC version. Right now I am using a Michell Prisma with the Mission 774 and Ortofon 540MkII. I got the Prisma off eBay a few years ago and love it (visually it is stunning). Even though some may argue is is a lesser turntable to the PT, I think it is just as good. There is just something special about vinyl; it encourages you to sit and listen to a side at a time and I think more care is taken over the mix and engineering for vinyl. Some of the latest vinyl by people like Jack White (check out 3rd Man Records) is really excellent, both in sound quality and performance. I was also fortunate that I also didn't sell my vinyl from the 70's and 80's, so have a nice collection to listen to.
One of the iFi ZEN Phono gain settings, MC High, offers 48db gain, the same amount that the Avid Pellar does according to the specs. The MC High setting also have 47kOhm load for the cartridge. This setting is intended for high output moving coil (MC) cartridges, but since that type of cartridge wants to see a 47kOhm load the setting also is suitable for a regular moving magnet (MM) cartridge that is a litte low on output voltage. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here :)
Hi Mikael, your totally right and I thought the exact same thing and tried it, but it didn't really solve my issue or make the sound better, louder yes but also more edgy. Its very possible I did something else wrong but I did try that too.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem This is a good point to suggest, in the future, to have a similar priced phono stage shoot-out. If you are able to collect some at some point.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Hi Terry this short video may explain the some of the traits you are hearing with the AT3600. My opinion with the lower end AT carts is that AT uses the AT3600 is many of their lower end turntables that have built it phono preamps and thus have have the capacitance of the tonearm wires only and not the added capacitance of inter connect cables and thus give a more rolled off top end. Check out the video. Cheers! czcams.com/video/hBxFgqn2JK4/video.html
Good point in the video. Say what you will about that cartridge. On that turntable it is unbelievably underrated. The player demonstrates how much better it can be as you upgrade the cartridge as you go forward.
Thanks for showing us your turntable journey Terry 👍
Jim 🏴🙂
Back in 1971 I got a turntable, speakers and receiver. All for $500. Turntable and receiver Made in Japan and speakers made in the USA. Cerwin Vega and Sansui. Incredible sound.
Ah, Sansui. One of the best for its time. A shame they are no more.
Congrats on your journey into Vinyl. I am old school and find it to be the most fun way to listen, it is my hope you will also find it a lot of fun. One thing to note records are the DIVA of playback media. If the pop and ticks are getting to be a nuisance, then I suggest you investigate how clean your records truly are. Not all record cleaning technologies are equal. I suggest taking a few records to your favorite Hi-Fi haunt and have them cleaned on whatever they are selling. Nitty Gritty, VPI, Audio Desk, what have you... and see if the surface noise improves over the method you are currently using. From my experience albeit you never really get rid of all the pops, most of the time they do not occur on a record that has been thoroughly cleaned. For me, there has been many of times, people have come over to the house and thought that I was playing a CD instead of a record. That, I suggest be a target goal if you get more serious about playing records.
First album i bought was Heart - Little Queen in 1977. I feel lucky now, i collected many many albums and my dad collected 100's of Classical and because he was a tech at Tech HiFi of Boston and Bose and he taught me about taking care of records early on . 13 years ago just before vinyl came back into fashion i struggled to justify $350 for an Oracle Delphi Mk2 , $175 for an SME series 3 arm and $350 for a Shure V15Vxmr cartridge. Sooo glad i got them when i did......
By the middle of my hi-fi journey, I was almost addicted to cartridge upgrades. But today I actually keep coming back to the Rega Carbon/Audio Technica AT 3600 L, the derivative of which comes with the Avid Ingenium.
Today I'm actually standing at the AT91 with an elyptic, naked stylus (Analogis Black Diamond), i.e. the successor to the AT 3600 L. The system sounds simply fantastic and in my opinion surpasses Goldring G1006, Ortofon 2M Blue, Sumiko Rainier.
If you have this Avid turntable or a Rega with the Rega Carbon cartridge, you should definitely try the Analogis Black Diamond stylus. The change is child's play.
I can assure you that it is worth it.
Feels like we are coming along with you on your journey. Thanks!
That is the intention, I hope it turns out to be enjoyable and interesting thanks
Thank you for your update Terry - glad that you enjoy vinyl alongside digital too. My record collection more than doubled overnight after inheriting the vinyl from my late parents - so invested in a better turntable, cartridge and phono stage.
To reduce pops from vinyl I found ultrasonic cleaning really made a difference. You can go low end - Hummingbird - or generic on the cheap, or Degritter at the other end of the scale.
As for the mat: some turntables are specifically designed to be used without. It will also introduce a tiny change in the stylus’ vertical tracking angle due to the thickness of the mat.
Avid have a real good reputation for their turntables of course.
Keep up the great work - I enjoy your channel!
Yeah I would love a dergritter machine, but its overkill for the 25 records I own, Although if they wanted to send me one I would say yes in a heart beat
Terry, nice follow-up. Being so open about your missteps is great. I can relate to your thirst for knowledge. Keep up the insightful work and please share the even smaller steps in your vinyl journey.
Thanks very much, loads to learn and for me to share but one step at a time :)
Hi Terry, interesting video and a similar journey that I took a number of years ago. Your experience with upgrading your phono stage was similar to mine. Another improvement was an arm upgrade which can make so much difference and improve a budget cartridge no end, this bears out your explanation of a good base for the cartridge to work at its best. keep up the good work. Here’s another music recommendation for a vinyl purchase; Talk Talk: the Colour of Spring. It sounds amazing on my record player.
Phil do you mean a 2012 pressing or original 1986? Thanks
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I've got the 2012 version. It has a cd with it also. I haven't heard the original version to compare, sorry. The pressing is very good, not sure if it was remastered though🤔....
The platter mat rabbit hole is never ending, everyone of them sounds different and everything you can come up with yourself as diy mats sound different. Can be a lot of fun but never ending.
Great video thanks Terry, having been a vinyl junkie for many years I think you were spot on with your findings and views. Enjoy the rest of your journey and I look forward to your next vinyl video
Completely agree on the subwoofer. Made the biggest difference to me out of aaaaaall my upgrades over the years 👍🏼 got a Rythmik F12
Great very useful video. That comment someone made about a phono stage being like,a DAC (either in analogous function or importance), is a strained simile. A phone cartridge is much more analogous to a DAC, while a phone stage is serving as the preamp. But i think we know that. The relative importance and affect of different cartridges are much more equivalent in their contributions to a DAC also,
Terry, I'm glad you're enjoying your journey. I'm only a few years ahead of you w/ vinyl, and I'm enjoying it, too. I have a Pro-Ject RPM 5, which came with a Sumiko Amethyst MM Cartridge. Probably reasonably similar to what you have. I didn't want to spend any more upgrading anything until I knew I was getting the most out of what I had. I chose to invest in an inexpensive cavitation cleaner and (expensive, crap I was surprised!) cartridge setup tools. My cartridge came pre set from Pro-Ject, but it sounded remarkably better after I did a proper static setup with a SMARTractor. Later I bought a copy of Analog Magik and did a dynamic setup and it was better again. Two years after that, I did upgrade the cart - to a Hana ML. That cartridge upgrade made about the same difference in sound as a really good setup had previously. But now I have the tools, and I know I'm getting the most out of my Hana ML, too. It's a good point you make about system synergy. For my start, I chose a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 phono stage to match my Pro-Ject deck.
Terry, 2 things, get yourself a milty zerostat 3 gun for the crackles and pops. Not conclusive but makes an audible difference.
Try a tube phonostage! I bought a relatively cheap pro-ject tube box s2 and battery pack and the sound is immense, better than my moon lp 110v2 and slightly richer sounding than the onboard phono on my moon 390.
You'll have a whole new world of tube rolling to explore too!
I'm pretty sure the gain can be adjusted on the ifi Zen phonostage, might be worth revisiting the instruction manual. Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that certain Audio Technica cartridges perform better via the Zens high output MC input... 🤔
Terry, you are right where you need to be, your turntable and phono preamp is above entry level, but as you know you can always go well beyond what you spent. I consider entry level a project debut or debut carbon with a beginner phono stage from them or a Schiit mani or a beginner Ifi phono stage and please people don’t get offended because all of the stuff I named can still sound good. I think at this point you should spend your time and money on records and even a better record cleaning solution, which can help to get the noise out of the vinyl. After you decided that vinyl is really your thing, then experiment on cartridges, but for now just enjoy the music because you have a beautiful system there.
Defo some more records and will be looking at how I am cleaning them to see if I can make some gains there
Terry great video. I certainly am not an audiophile in the true sense of the word, but I can tell you that listening to vinyl is an experience. I think the journey is worth it. Something about getting up to turn the record over, raising and lowering the tone arm all makes it different than digital. It really depends on your mood. Sure digital is easier, just sit and listen, but vinyl takes effort and I think the effort is what makes it enjoyable. If you are a baby boomer like me, hearing the occasional pop and snap of a record brings back great memories. Vinyl does have a sound difference, not so much better but different. To me it has a warmer sound, a sound you can listen to for a long time. Sometimes digital can be tough on the ears, so each has its good and bad. It really depends on your mood. I listen to both and enjoy both very much. Sometimes sitting in the dark, listening to a vinyl record from Hendrix or Pink Floyd is right where I want to be. So enjoy your experience and know that your mood will always dictate how you enjoy the music, whether it is digital or vinyl. Just enjoy!!!!
Glad to see the improvement in vinyl. I agree with the comment related to phono preamp vs the dac. The cartridge is very similar in that way too. It’s good to try multiple carts and preamps to dial things in. I found the best results with the 1/3 rule of thumb. This is from a price standpoint that the turntable , cartridge and preamp should all be in the similar price range. Value is found when something cheaper than the 1/3 rule works better. Just my $0.02. Cheers
there´s a point to be said, i hear vinil or records as we used to call it since i was 12 bought my first lp in 67 , my parents had a large colection of records ,today i have 5.200 in perfect condition, the LP i bought first was the beatles sgt.peppers lonley heart club band ,my second was a Joan Baez LP, then i met the yarbirds ,etc. etc. but why i still listen to records for the fact that records not modern vinyl as better sound than any cd and i have nothing against digital ,i bought my first DAT recorder in 87 from Sony, either than the reels it was the best i ever heard, my question is why selling a poor version of 80´s cd´s who were more resistant and the same price as today ,the reason why till 93 only had 7 cds, but i could record into a DAT cassette all novelties from a cd shop owned by a friend of mine, but rock records why cds sounded so bad well i was explained that the vibration and amplifier distortion on a digital cd it was recognised as noise, the reason why all rock bands of the 90´s only the final product was digital or the cd but if you heard those albums in a record they sounded much better or they sounded as they should
Thank you Terry, enjoy all your videos. I recently resurrected my old turntable, replaced the cartridge and am having fun. Bit shocked at the price of new records though!
I had a whole section of this video moaning about vinyl prices and the lottery of buying them but I cut it out as it was a bit too waffly. Yes buying records is easily the most expensive part of this for sure.
You may need to adjust your memory for inflation. The cost of records isn't much different now than it was in, say, 1970. For example, $4 in 1970 (a typical record price) is approximately $30 now which is not far off most new releases. Audiophile reissues do tend to cost a bit more.
1 setting up from the mm setting on the ifi is stil 47kohms which may also work. Thats what I used with my mm cart when I had it.
Hi Terry, personally I think that TT should be on a wall shelf, I know it’ll mess with your aesthetics, however, if you’ve got solid walls, getting a nice wall shelf (Quadraspire make one to match your existing rack) you’ll reap some serious sound benefits. You’ll be amazed a just how much sonic vibration comes through the floor, especially with those two big subs.
Thanks Terry for this video. I have recently got back into vinyl so I am searching for a better turntable/record player at the moment. My current player is a cheap technics unit from 20-25 years ago. It works but I am ready to move up in quality. I appreciate the information on the AVID unit. I haven't really looked at those units. I have primarily looked at VPI, Dr. Feickert, and Clearaudio. I appreciate the honesty about the phono stage as well. I understand anything in the signal path makes a huge difference in sound quality as you pointed out in this video. It is quite overwhelming the number of turntables and even more phono stages. As you stated synergy is very important. Now I am even more concerned with picking the correct product. I appreciate you sharing your experiences with vinyl playback.
Fascinating !!! Conrad Mas and his team are a class act. I had extensive dealings with them in trying to come up with a system for my 'forever turntable'.. However, I wish they had a much better distribution network and support in the USA. They seem to be more focused on Europe and Asia. Love their products but am concerned about after sale support..
I’m using an Exposure XM3 Phono Amplifier with my Linn. The XM3 is £850 now, when I bought mine it was £700. I think that would be a great choice for the Avid.
Hi Terry,
I use a Nagaoka MP500 moving Magnet cartridge,
It’s a fantastic performer,
With great detail, dynamics,
etc. you’ll be amazed by it’s performance compared to the cartridge your currently using.
I highly recommend it.
I have a Rega P3 that I absolutely love, it took me about two years to get the best out of it. I am often surprised just how good something like an Audio Technica AT-VM95E sounds, on a turntable that has been set up well and functions correctly. I found that turntable setup, keeping things absolutely level, and giving it a really good foundation to live on are very important, and should be maximised before upgrading anything. Then the phono stage, as you mention, makes a really big difference and there are synergistic relationships between cartridges and phonos, and those that are not. I use a much less expensive Schiit Mani, with the Swagman Labs power supply, and it sounds really good with the VM95E, but really gels with the Nagaoka MP200. I have settled on being a bit nuts, but now love experimenting with cartridges; I only have a half dozen or so, but it's so much fun to explore the sonic characteristics of each one. Have continued fun in your journey!
Rocking the Mission 770's. Good job guy. BTW, I'm a Vandersteen fanboy, in case you are interested. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but turntable cartridge is pretty good. Avid makes great products, not a piece of crap in their line up. No apologies needed.
I look forward to seeing more of your vinyl journey. As you mentioned, vinyl can be a lottery. A couple of weeks ago, I listened to an album I purchased in the 70’s and it sounded really good. I then listened to something recorded around 5-6 years ago and it sounded lifeless, with the digital version sounding better. Given the cost of vinyl, this can be a bit off putting but I still like the black stuff.
I find the same thing, the fear of getting a bad one is a blocker to buying vinyl given the price and sucks hard
Something that was recorded 5 to 6 years ago is probably just a digital album basically a CD file put on vinyl. If you find old records in great shape they're all analog and newer albums from places like acoustic sounds are all analog and even some of them end up in Walmart occasionally with lesser packaging but still all analog from the master tapes... With older vinyl anything before mid-70s oil crisis we usually be higher quality vinyl itself because of the petroleum products used in manufacturing vinyl records... They got thinner and not virgin vinyl but recycled...
@@B1B904 That is what I had assumed. The more recent recording sounds better in digital so it could be the pressing rather than the recording. I have some vinyl remasters that are probably transferred from digital and some of these sound much better than the original analogue recordings. It really is a lottery.
I highly recommend Koetsu cartridges - and already the Koetsu Black could be all you ever want! It’s worth it, your Avid is the right base for this upgrade…
Pretty sure a Koetsu black costs about double what this whole TT setup costs, I am sure its great though
@@PursuitPerfectSystem well, it’s not cheap, but it’s def less then the rest of your TT system (around $2.400) and it will elevate your system like nothing else!
Awesome video! Your vinyl setup is great. Maybe you are still comparing digital sound to the vinyl sound. It probably takes a bit more time for someone who comes from digital to get used to the vinyl sound. To me, IMHO, listening to vinyl is more of an experience; an experience which has to be openly accepted and enjoyed rather than analyzed.
The vinyl mat looks interesting because it sort of mimics the properties of actual vinyl record, and possibly providing more sonic benefits. The cork mat never really worked for me, it made the vinyl playback too soft/spongy with a lot less punch and definition.
This video is very refreshing and inspiring to watch!! Kudos! 🤘😊
I strongly suggest investing in a cleaning solution of some kind to lower the noise floor and minimize clicks/pops if you continue to go down this road. An ultrasonic solution is best, but I've found you can get very good results with a 3D-printed item like the Squeaky Clean Vinyl product.
I have been using a Project VTE machine, maybe I am not doing it right, but on some records there is just more noise than others seemingly.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Pressing quality does matter quite a bit. It doesn't matter how clean I get some records they will still sound grainy, while releases from Acoustic Productions and other high-quality producers are dead silent straight out of the mail without any wash at all.
The Ortofon Red that came on my Technics 1500c amplified the ticks and pops to where I didn’t want it. Inexpensive cartridges can either amplify the lower treble to give more apparent detail or roll off and sound bland. Better to go up to the $250-300 range to get something worth listening to. I’ve had good results with the Nagaoka mp200 and Denon 301 mk2. Nothing to pricey but much better than the under $100 ones I’ve tried. I didn’t hear much difference between the Zen phono and the built in phono of the Denon a100 integrated. Both good.
The Red is fine and I have been using it on and off for over a decade - this company has been doing this for 63 years - safe to say they know what they are doing. I have no idea what your comment about ticks and pops was supposed to demonstrate.
i also have the red on 1500c ... it mostly pops with used vinyl ... which is more or less expected
Inexpensive bonded stylus’s are lower quality compared to nude stylus. Very simple truth. If you like it that’s all that matters.
I still have my original red (never used), just replaced my blue with a bronze and am loving the bronze.
I'm using the mofi studio phono with my ingenium guy's and I'm getting decent gain ( not as much as my dac but respectable) so a expensive phono stage isn't a absolute necessity. Also got the upgraded platter and running a goldring g1042....she's staring to sing now..lol...origin live zephyr arm next, although that'll take a bit of saving for.
Regarding the cartridge, I agree with most here that a good MC cart will sound better. However, the stylus does wear out over time (some peeps say somewhere between 1000 and 3000 hours). I would recommend that you keep what you have, and plan on an upgrade in a year or two (once your ears have adjusted fully to the sound) when you can pinpoint what you want a better cart to do.
Terry, first I love your choice of starter turntable! Going with Avid is a bit like going with the lowest priced Ferrari for your first car. Second, Is that Avid cartridge a rebranded Audio-Technica or is it a true Avid in house made cart? I'd say that now you have a good phono stage too just get a really nice MM cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Black or Bronze or the new Sumiko Wellfleet and you'll be set for awhile.
Thanks, yeah I will look at cartridges in the future but its important I take steps slowly to appreciate and understand each one much more, otherwise it will be difficult to know what has done what down the line.
I made a bit of the upgrade path on my Project DC Carbon: acrylic platter, better grounded power supply, aluminum sub platter, swapped the 2m red for bronze. The cartridge made a huge difference, sub platter a real difference, the rest I couldn't tell? Phono stage is internal in my Naim Nait xs3. Sound is quite similar to digital tight and clear.
Very nice system!😉
You actually convinced me with your first video on the Ingenium to pull the trigger on one. I now own a limited white one. I heard about its reputation as a really solid drive with a lot of upgrade potential. I am now using my Ingenium with an Origin Live Silver arm, an AT95 in the Shibata version, and the upgraded aluminium platter. This is hooked up to a tube phone stage slightly above the Pellar price range. The journey was the goal and every upgrade brought more listening enjoyment. It will be interesting to see how you will continue. I wanted a really solid drive and tonearm that sounds good with a more low end cartridge. I buy a lot of used vinyl and play lots of records, so I want the wearing parts (ie cartridge) to be decent but affordable.
Thanks for this, how did you install the arm, did it require any major modification?
@@PursuitPerfectSystem actually, no… on a standard Ingenium, my local distributor claims to run it with up to an Illustrious… with good results.
My white unit however is I believe made with a dipping lacquer… so I had to sand down the hole for the arm to remove the lacquer… then the Origin Live arms fit like a charm. They use ”old Rega” fastening, not the ”new 3-point”. But there is an adapter ring from Origin that covers the holes and then you are at exactly the same height as with a Rega as well. So no guessing for the VTA, with pickups the same height as the carbon. So eg the Hana ML or similar would also fit with no adjustment necessary. And of course with the Origin arm you could adjust the VTA the way you need it.
Thanks for this explanation, some of this is a little beyond me at the minute but its useful to know what options might be available to consider, I assumed there might not be any
@@PursuitPerfectSystem there are options. I have to admit that it was hard to find out. Origin themselves were not sure, but then I asked my local distributor and he was sure. So I ordered the arm, swore not so silently about my dipping lacquer problem, but had the arm installed in an hour despite that hiccup. Sounds awesome. And the platter upgrade, exxpensive as it seems at first sight, is worth it. Still cheaper than e.g. A Transrotor Dark Star with the Ucello (Goldring 1000 series variant). We will see whether and where I go from here…
Been in touch with Avid too - very nice contact. Lots of tips, I will let you know when I have employed their next performance tip. ;-)
Hello Terry, please consider this more of a message rather than a comment on your video. I don't want to come across as criticising your vinyl adventure, you are a very accomplished audiophile and this game is all about subjective opinion rather than anything absolutely objectivity, however, I have some concerns. I have been watching your excellent channel since lockdown in early 2020 and I've been impressed with amount and the quality of the equipment that you have reviewed over the last couple of years, you really do seem to know what you are talking about and you have a genuine joy and love for what you do. Vinyl is different and quite frankly at the moment you are trying to get high end results with entry level equipment and that is never going to work. Something like your Avid turntable, arm and cartridge plus phono stageI would partner with a £1000 integrated amplifier and £1000 pair of speakers, using them with a £5000 amp and £3500 pair of speaker plus pricey subs seems like a totally unbalanced system.
Vinyl reproduction is all about front end; turntable, arm and cartridge first, phono stage second, amp and speakers third back in the 70's both Ivor Tiefenbrun and Rega founder Roy Gandy both came to this same conclusion. You are used to relatively high end digital sources feed great amps and speakers at the moment you're using a relatively modest set up feeding a great amp and speakers. Is the result ever going to be that satisfying? I use a Dr Feickert Woodpecker Turntable, with a VPI 12 inch arm and an Ortofon Cadenza Black Cartridge, these feed a Musical Fidelity Nu Vista phono stage into Musical Fidelity Nu Vista 800 into a Pair of PMC 2025i speakers. So my amp and speakers are of a similar level to the Leema/ Mission set up you are using but my front end is all together far more than the price of my amp and speakers. I also have invested in a Degritter ultra sonic record cleaner that makes a huge difference in reducing the noise floor
Moving magnet cartridges are relatively noisy compared to moving coil, but to a moving coil cartridge justice you do need a turntable and arm that can cope. My advice would be at this stage to see if you could get a Rega RP10 package with one of their MC cartridges fitted in for review and see if you feel about vinyl after hearing it on a set up that equates better to your excellent speakers and amp. At the moment you literally have a Ferrari with Ford Focus engine. The reason I recommend the Rega is that they are relatively simply even for a novice, there's no VTA adjustment required or azimuth angle adjustment, simply align the cartridge, set the tracking weight and anti-skate (bias) and you are off. I would also recommend getting some means of cleaning your records, that can be as basic at the Disco antistat (about £100 all included) or if you are committed to vinyl now a a £400 to £500 vacuum cleaning from Pro-Ject.
There's no need to go to expense that I've gone to to get great results, however a set up more akin in level to your amplifier and speakers will demonstrate to you the absolute sonic value in vinyl records, done well a good Turnable, Arm, Cartridge and Phono Stage will blow away any digital source and really get you back to the music. Please feel free to contact me if you'd like more advice or info.
Best wishes Ian
Hi Ian, thanks for the comments I have owned a project record cleaning machine for a few years, cleaned all my records now twice actually because the first time I used the wrong ratio of solution to water. Turns out this time I used the wrong water so I will have to do them all again. Lucky I dont own many.
I came into this with no expectations really, like I said this setup is sounding pretty good now, I am not expecting miracles but its important I am honest about my experiences, thats the whole point of documenting the journey. Its not a journey if you start at the end of it and most YoUTube videos will be by someone at the end not the beginning. Its also not the right time for me to make any big changes. I need to iron out all my basic skills first like cleaning records properly and even anti static them properly, I have been doing that wrong too. I need the basics down before I look to change anything. Otherwise I would not fully appreciate the differences between an A / B TT setup and I would report on it incorrectly.
Reporting with honesty I think is fine, but trying to limit your accidental mis information I thin k is really important. I will get there just give me some time. Thank for your very kind words I appreciate them
Minimum moving magnet I would recommend would be an ortofon 2m black nothing less
Watching you video, it looks like there's one thing you may have overlooked. Cartridge break in. Its not like any other components break in period. Its much more noticeable. I've had brand new carts that I thought were defective they sounded so bad. You could literally hear a change from record to record. The first 25 hours, or so, are the most critical. Around 100 hours is usually plenty of time for everything to break in the way its supposed to. When you were talking about your initial impressions, that was most likely a factor.
Thats a great shout and very possible that I overlooked that
Between my ifi zen phono and my high end (4000,- ) tube amp i placed a chinese fx audio tube buffer preamp (35,-) to power up the ifi zen Signal
And it works very well for me.
Are you using it with the Ingenium or a different turntable?
@@PursuitPerfectSystem
This little chinese Thing has a trible and Bass Tone Controll too, it ads alittle more 'tubiness also but does NOT deteriorate the Signal.
It works. For many audiophiles, what i did is a kinda no go.
But i would recommend a try for all, who can't afford an expensive Phono pre.
Pin pint imaging, wide soundstage, pretty hollographic and the right amount of "tubiness 😉, Idler drive dynamics.
Im using a refurbished dual 1219 another rule-breaker for the Szene.
Fully automatic + ortofon 2m blue
at the end of this chain (got another one with klipsch quartets) im using spendor 35/1 also known as Spendor preludes from the late 80's (Ls3/5 a Tone with Bass 😀 )
Its a mixed vintage and New System.
The amp is totally high end New, german manufactured.
Ok, long Story
You are dringend a great Job.
I really enjoy your channel and lernen a lot from you. Thanks a lot.
Greetings from germany
Great vid👍🙏
The accelerometer based turn speed apps are always a little off in my experience. Use the stobe disk and a stobe app on your phone, or an actual stobe if you want it to be correct.
The phone app I dont think takes into account the phone weight which will be higher than a record and therefore spin a little faster with the record on surely??
The strobe set I bought cost me £50 and it does work, but I couldn't really see any adjustment iI was trying to make to know if what I am doing is better or worse
As good as that AT $10 cartridge sounds I would upgrade it immediately. With a proper HiFi-cart you normally run the stylus weight in around 1,5 g not 3 g.
In time, I cant run before I can walk, that not really what I am doing here
I know it sounds crazy but the biggest leap in my vinyl experience has been learning how to handle it properly. Up until recently I would pinch it at the very edge to pull it out of the cover. After months of watching some pros like The In Sound and 46rpm audiophile, I've now learnt how to properly handle it. This in turn hasassively lessened the pops and clicks on those entry tracks of the record.
Great advice, I am all over the place handling vinyl and I need to learn these skills as well
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I'm sure you've heard of him but watch any shootout by Mike Esposito on The In Groove, he's a master at handling and once you overcome how unnatural it looks, it really does make a huge improvement. It's taken me years to figure this out 😃
@@SpyderTracks i didn't know that chanel i will check out their work thanks
Your system rocks! The dual rel subs would be awesome for metal music
You need a good quality moving coil cartridge. It will move the sound up several levels.
I will get to that eventually but I need to find my base line before moving up so I get a proper appreciation for it all.
Sansui AU 717 amp. 4 leak sandwich 600's speakers. Garrard 401 turntable (SME arm. Works for me.
Really strange you had a volume problem with the Ifi phono stage. Your cart looks to be an Audio-Technica ATN3600L which has a 4.2mv output. I do see the Ifi only has 36db gain for MM but with a 4.2mv output I wouldn't think that an issue. You weren't running a passive preamp at the time were you? Either way, I think it's always better to have a great phono stage and a lesser cart than the other way around. Some budget carts sound waaaay better than people realize once you unlock their full potential. You made a good move!
Since you're a huge digital fan, you should try getting some original pressings of any older music you enjoy, back when everything was all analog, and compare it with a DAC setup. Would be interesting to see what you find the sonic differences are.
I had a whole section of the video talking about this, but I cut it out as it was a bit too waffly. Older records def sound different, more of their time compared to cd versions of the same music. I have bought a 1982 Thriller, waiting for that to turn up and the 1981 Tracy Chapman., I am trying but it takes times as its all expensive.
You really should move up to a better cartridge. Like Audio Technica AT-VM95 ML it will be a big improvement over what you have and it will work well withyour tonearm.
I'm keen to follow your progress as I'm going through a something similar (mistakes aplenty too). How are you levelling your surface? My floor is slightly off and my entry level turntable's feet aren't adjustable.
To level I have to adjust he spikes on the legs of the shelf rack. Its not as good as a solution built into the TT itself but its better than nowt :)
The weak link in your vinyl playback system wasn't the Zen phono preamp, it was the cartridge. The Avid cartridge is just a re-badged cheap Audio Technica. If you tried something like a Nagaoka MP-110 or Nagaoka MP-150 you would see and hear the difference.
I can see why you would think that, but I changed the phono stage and this cartridge then sounded great, I think in that instance its fair to say its not the cartridge was the weakest link, it could well be me as the weakest link but as I explained in the video I tried everything I could
Yes Lehman black cube se ii……one off the best phono pre Amps…. German made
Great video and well explained.
I personally think you’ve gone down the correct route with a MM cartridge.
Rationale being that if / when you do look to move to a MC cart and high-end Phono-stage you will see a noticeable increase in performance.
I recent moved from a Debut Carbon MM to a REGA P8 / Apheta 3 / Aria Mk3 and had a huge “wow” moment.
Q please - what is the wooden isolation base you have under the TT please ?
If your phono stage will allow you too..your next upgrade should be a good low output mc cartridge .. the difference will be night and day 👍🏻
Replace the cartridge on your Avid turntable with a Ortophon blue, an awesome cartridge and amazing for the money. It sounds like you're moving magnet cartridge might just have a low output closer to a moving coil but that's just my guess because I've heard really good things about the I-fi zen and I've never heard anybody having problems with low output unless the cartridge itself is low output... I like my turntable because it has the bayonet mount , so I can switch out between different pickups very easily. Love that avid turntable where is it made?...England?
the croft acoustics riaa phono stages good for £500 valve can't go wrong.
and bias anti skate can have a big bearing usually slightly under is better! not keeping it to the weight of the cartridge should be adjusted with headphones or using a scope,
same adjusting the weight of the cartridge usually heavier gives you stronger bass and vice versa.
I would use a ball bearing to level the platter more accurate than the level has to be done on the hard surface not the mat.
Well I had to comment on your video. I have had an Ifi Zen phono and thought it a very good phono pre amp with more than enough gain. With the Audio Tehcnica AT3600 cart you should be running it on the LOW MOVING COIL setting on the Pre amp. You also need to use the shortest low capacitance cable you have. Also the little short cable supplied with the Ifi should not be used. This will smooth out the highs and give you lots of gain. Also I think you need to replace the cart, honestly almost any cart will will be better than the AT3600. I believe, if you want to stay with Audio Technica try the AT vm95en. For the price you can't beat it. Detail and clarity will be drastically improved and it is a lot easier to mount with its threaded nut inserts. Please upgrade that cartridge your ears will thank you. Cheers!
I did try using the other gain settings and that raised the volume some but it didnt change the sound profile issue I was having and made the sound more edgy and it didn't seem right to me. Its possible I was doing something else wrong though
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Thanks for the response, always great to hear from the video creator.
Will no doubt notice a similar change in sound quality when and if you decide to upgrade the cartridge. Really is quite a difference between different brands and models and you don't necessarily have to go for a very expensive cartridge either.
I will get to that in time, cant run before I can walk as I need to document every step
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Agreed. Just mentioned it in terms of "scaleability" now that you have a proper phono preamp. Vinyl is a lot of fun, especially when you get to the point you mention in the video where you can just sit down and enjoy the music. Enjoy the journey!
Hi Terry! Great video! How would You compare analog setup to digital systems so far in terms of the same cost and quality factors? I know that's subjective but could You say at this point which one produces better overall sound for the money?
Now you e got the Pellar phono stage have you thought about going for a moving coil cartridge instead of a moving magnet?
Wash your records if the surface noise is that bad, even new records are dirty. This heipt me with the surface noise. Like the video's and enjoy jour records
I have been washing them with a machine, probably doing it wrong though
Hi Mate. It is important that the tonearm / cartridge fundamental resonant frequency is between 7 and 9 HZ. Not all arms work with all cartridges. A high compliance cartridge in a high mass arm will not track properly. Same for a low compliance cartridge in a low mass arm. One way to ruin your records is not to thoroughly clean and vacuum them before the very first play.
I have been cleaning them all using a Project VTE machine, but I dont think I am getting them as clean as I could so I will look into it more, maybe I am doing something wrong.
..just thinking Terry, my platter upgrade and goldring g1042 with the mofi studio phono comes in at around the same cost of your Avid peller....a pity we don't stay close, it'd be a interesting comparison.lol.
I will be looking at the Platter upgrade next Mark so that will be interesting to see what that does. Have you seen there is also now motor upgrades as well, not cheap but it will get the performance closer to the DIVA II SP
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Just had a look at those upgrades the speed box and the psu, pricey, also that platter upgrade has jumped up £100, I'm glad I got mine along with the ingenium, both at the old price.
When you bought your Avid TT which is not cheap, that seller should have helped you match your TT and price range with a phono stage.
I work in the trade, I didn't get the TT through the usual dealer channels but yes your right they might gave suggested a different pairing but ultimately if I said no I want to go this route then its on me right
Next up, a record cleaning machine to eliminate most of the crackles and pops. Careful as well with storage, including eliminating paper sleeves for rice paper, and storing records upright and fairly tightly packed. Understand as well, the better the cartridge the less ticks and pops are apparent. The time will come when the advantage of MC cartridges will become apparent as well.
I have a cleaning machine for a couple of years because I planned to do this at the start of lock down but it didn't happen.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem What kind?
Project VCE
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Okay. Whether you use a home brew or Project's fluid do a wash with distilled water after cleaning. Clean your stylus back to front with a stiff brush after every record, preferably after every side. The last thing you want is an uneven buildup of hardened dirt on one side of the stylus. At least once every six months use a stylus cleaning fluid, one without alcohol. Audioquest makes a good brush for your records. Tilt one row of brushes to the right to catch the dust while the TT is spinning, then tilt to the left on the unused row of brushes as you slowly bring the brush to the edge, then off of the record. Audio Intelligence makes a nice stylus cleaning fluid, as does Lyra, Last, and MoFi. I prefer the Audio Intelligence. Alcohol on the stylus will in time dissolve the bonding material of stylus tip to shank of cantilever. The voltage of the phono signal is very weak and delicate at only 0.004 to 0.005, and it's very sensitive to the type of cable use as the interface between phono stage and TT. I like silver cables (I use Nordost) because of their purity, speed and detail, but Cardas and Morrow make good cheaper cables.
It is obviously that analog sound is superior to any digital. However a convenience and price of digital sound makes most of us digital audiophiles.
So many really great British made phono stages new and vintage but you buy a Chinese one?
Listening to vinyl today is the greatest way of reminding yourself why the Compact Disc was invented in the first place.
Thats is a very grumpy approach to life
bs
Please get a better cartridge. Try the AT95 ML or SH to start with. I don't see that mat being of benefit with an Avid due to the platter design. With that pricey phono stage a MC cartridge should be your aim.
Yeah, AVID called me to say this matt is not really suitable for their TT designs. I think this one might be ok because its Vinyl so it would be just like I am using a thicker record but even so I will save it for the future when I get a chance to play with something different,
Sadly there are no beginners in LP now, especially after mofi controversy, gen z wouldn't be attracted to Vinyls anymore, so sorry to say but try to cover Vinyl for seasoned audiences and beginners digital setups for gen z.
I am not covering it for beginners, I am, the beginner. I cant lie and pretend to be an expert because I am not.
Not true. I had lunch 6 months ago with a couple and their two daughters (22-23 yrs old) both of whom listen to vinyl as do many of their friends.
Give the cartridge more weight and turn up the gain on the phono
I tried that it didnt work
what brand are those bookshelf speakers?
Terry, if you want to remove as much noise as possible in your turntable setup, you should have a look at the Soundeck steel platter mat video on CZcams.
czcams.com/video/KdZ8wMtDRwY/video.html
Soundeck is a UK based company that makes many damping products for audiophiles such as damping feet, damping pucks. There's another video where you can see how their products are made and the business philosophy. It's very interesting.
You have to ditch that moving magnet cartridge degrades the decks performance
Maybe check the more recent videos in this series
Clean records will help, but not eliminate clicks and pops completely. A good vacuum cleaner will do.
I find it frustrating buying records. Most of them sound bad or avarage new releases come often with defects warpage. It's like buying a kinder bueno for + £20
Yeah I am in that same boat at the moment, finding it a bit of a barrier
You’ll be blown away if you upgrade the cartridge
All coming in the future for sure, one step at a time
I just purchased the Sutherland KC vibe and quintet bronze very excited. I’m coming from a sumiko moonstone and emotive xps-1
Lehman black box..
Phono Stage?
Hi Terry , how do I contact you to do a Dirac calibration for me , many thanks Paul
Hi Paul, best is email please terryellis@pursuitperfectsystem.com I also have website dedicated to my calibration work www.diraclivecalibration.com Thanks
Thank you Terry I’ll ping you an email
I have been there and done i and believe me you will constantly upgrading and spending monies and will never be satisfied with what you have until you realise you already have it.
There is a lot of snake oil and bullshit in hifi - perhaps nowhere more so than in vinyl playback. Rigidity is paramount, second to which are arm/cart set up and motor noise. I have an excellent digital source, but spend most of my time with vinyl. Despite obvious points about s/n ratio and distortion, it seems (to me) much more immediate and visceral in the midband especially. You will prise my Rega 8 only from my cold, dead hands.
Which Rega arm is mounted on?
A Rega planar 1 arm with a Audio Technica AT 3600 cartridge, expensive TT for entry level gear
I'm sure it's a rebadged rb220
Ouch! He needs to upgrade that quickly!
Vinyl is nice to look at. But that's all.
Cant believe he paid thousands of dollars and ended up with whats essentially a bottom of the barrel AT 3600L entry level cartridge - understandable on entry level table (which this is not) but NOT on this level of gear.
Maybe you didn't listen to my detailed explanation about the sound quality of this setup, regardless of what you think this cartridge will sound like it doesn't on this turntable with this phono stage. This delivers way beyond entry level sound, a sound befitting the units price tag. I did explain this all in detail. No need to be pedantic in your comments because it reads as ignorance when all has already been explained
Records were great in the '70s then God created CDs. It is fine if you like distortion. To each there own. Records are distorted the day you buy them and get worse every day after that. Tubes are distorted also but I like that sound.