Turntable cartridge setup 101 - let's debunk many of the myths with Arian Jansen! | vinyl
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 05. 2024
- We return with Arian Jansen of SonoruS audio for another episode! Today's topic? Debunking lots of high-end audio cartridge setup bullshido! Indeed, there is so much nonsense out there with regards to setting up your prized cartridge - no matter the price or model - that it's time we called in the big guns to debunk...
Cheers and enjoy the show!
To contact Arian for cartridge setup or his tape machines, you can email him through his website, sonorusaudio.com
To learn more about Arian Jansen and his engineering background, check out the following episodes -
Arian Jansen's Proximity Bass Controller - everything you know about bass is likely wrong!
đ„ âą Everything you know ab...
Arian Jansen's view on Stereo and HiFi playback in general - Stereo on Stereoids??? SHI from Arian Jansen!
đ„ âą Stereo on Stereoids???...
đż It's popcorn time!
00:45 introduction + Arian Jansen!
06:03 the fundamentals of cartridge setup
10:04 alignment methods
12:11 so many fundamental issues
14:18 the issue with protractors
15:43 $10,000 cartridges with 10+ degrees of error?
17:45 don't listen for cartridge setup, measure!
19:27 final thoughts
đ» Equipment currently setup in Studio A:
EINSTEIN The Preamp einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Last Record Player, CD player
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Poweramp, hybrid Circlotron dual-mono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
EMMlabs MTRS, solid state stereo amplifier www.emmlabs.com
EMMlabs DS-EQ1, optical cartridge "energizer" x 2
Meitner MA3, DAC + Streamer
Kuzma XL Air + Safir, turntable + arm www.kuzma.si
Bergmann Galder Signature + Odin, turntable + arm bergmannaudio.com
ReVox H1 Cassette tape deck
Telefunken M15A reel to reel tape machine x 2
Nagra IV-S reel to reel tape machine www.nagraaudio.com
Wilson Audio Sasha V www.wilsonaudio.com
Wilson Audio Loke x 2
DeVore Fidelity O/96 devorefidelity.com
SonoruS Audio proximity bass controller sonorusaudio.com
Tascam DA1000, A/D converter + digital recorder
HRS SRX rack, M3X platforms of various sizes avisolation.com
QNAP 8 bay 32TB NAS
Tidal, Apple Music streaming services
Audirvana Studio media playback app audirvana.com
eero Pro 6 WiFi network
đŒ Cables used in Studio A:
Black Cat Cable blackcatcable.com
Graceline L3, speaker + interconnect
LessLoss C-MARC Classic power cables www.lessloss.com
đ» Equipment currently setup in Studio B:
EINSTEIN The Amp Ultimate, integrated amplifier einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Record Player
EINSTEIN The Tonearm
EINSTEIN The Pickup, MC phono cartridge
EINSTEIN The Pure, crossover-less 3-way loudspeaker with ICE powered 10" subwoofer bass section
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
Nakamichi Dragon, cassette tape deck
SonoruS Audio modified, ReVox PR-99 Mk III reel to reel tape machine sonorusaudio.com
đŒ Cables used in Studio B:
Various looms of EINSTEIN cables, RCA, XLR, power
đ About SonicFlare
Danny Kaey is a 25 year veteran published audio and HiFi reviewer in both online and printed publications in the US, Canada and Europe. In the hobby for over 40 years, his tastes have varied through the decades, though now have settled for what music is all about: dynamics, slam, resolving power and tonality. DK believes that like many personally experienced tastes, there are many flavors to HiFi, though in all cases HiFi should aim to replicate music as closely as possible.
đ€© If you like this channel and content please help support me by liking and subscribing here on CZcams and Instagram.
đFollow me on Instagram: / sonicflare
đFollow me on Discord: / discord
đDM me with inquiries for future reviews or interviews.
#audio #music #hifi #stereo #records #sonicflare
Thanks for watching the video Turntable cartridge setup 101! - Hudba
We return with Arian Jansen of SonoruS audio for another episode! Today's topic? Debunking lots of high-end audio cartridge setup bullshido! Indeed, there is so much nonsense out there with regards to setting up your prized cartridge - no matter the price or model - that it's time we called in the big guns to debunk...
Cheers and enjoy the show!
To contact Arian for cartridge setup or his tape machines, you can email him through his website, sonorusaudio.com
To learn more about Arian Jansen and his engineering background, check out the following episodes -
Arian Jansen's Proximity Bass Controller - everything you know about bass is likely wrong!
đ„ czcams.com/video/yUO6vEvkLBE/video.html
Arian Jansen's view on Stereo and HiFi playback in general - Stereo on Stereoids??? SHI from Arian Jansen!
đ„ czcams.com/video/BXASb-8k5tg/video.html
đż It's popcorn time!
00:45 introduction + Arian Jansen!
06:03 the fundamentals of cartridge setup
10:04 alignment methods
12:11 so many fundamental issues
14:18 the issue with protractors
15:43 $10,000 cartridges with 10+ degrees of error?
17:45 don't listen for cartridge setup, measure!
19:27 final thoughts
đ» Equipment currently setup in Studio A:
EINSTEIN The Preamp einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Last Record Player, CD player
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Poweramp, hybrid Circlotron dual-mono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
EMMlabs MTRS, solid state stereo amplifier www.emmlabs.com
EMMlabs DS-EQ1, optical cartridge "energizer" x 2
Meitner MA3, DAC + Streamer
Kuzma XL Air + Safir, turntable + arm www.kuzma.si
Bergmann Galder Signature + Odin, turntable + arm bergmannaudio.com
ReVox H1 Cassette tape deck
Telefunken M15A reel to reel tape machine x 2
Nagra IV-S reel to reel tape machine www.nagraaudio.com
Wilson Audio Sasha V www.wilsonaudio.com
Wilson Audio Loke x 2
DeVore Fidelity O/96 devorefidelity.com
SonoruS Audio proximity bass controller sonorusaudio.com
Tascam DA1000, A/D converter + digital recorder
HRS SRX rack, M3X platforms of various sizes avisolation.com
QNAP 8 bay 32TB NAS
Tidal, Apple Music streaming services
Audirvana Studio media playback app audirvana.com
eero Pro 6 WiFi network
đŒ Cables used in Studio A:
Black Cat Cable blackcatcable.com
Graceline L3, speaker + interconnect
LessLoss C-MARC Classic power cables www.lessloss.com
đ» Equipment currently setup in Studio B:
EINSTEIN The Amp Ultimate, integrated amplifier einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Record Player
EINSTEIN The Tonearm
EINSTEIN The Pickup, MC phono cartridge
EINSTEIN The Pure, crossover-less 3-way loudspeaker with ICE powered 10" subwoofer bass section
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
Nakamichi Dragon, cassette tape deck
SonoruS Audio modified, ReVox PR-99 Mk III reel to reel tape machine sonorusaudio.com
đŒ Cables used in Studio B:
Various looms of EINSTEIN cables, RCA, XLR, power
đ About SonicFlare
Danny Kaey is a 25 year veteran published audio and HiFi reviewer in both online and printed publications in the US, Canada and Europe. In the hobby for over 40 years, his tastes have varied through the decades, though now have settled for what music is all about: dynamics, slam, resolving power and tonality. DK believes that like many personally experienced tastes, there are many flavors to HiFi, though in all cases HiFi should aim to replicate music as closely as possible.
đ€© If you like this channel and content please help support me by liking and subscribing here on CZcams and Instagram.
đFollow me on Instagram: instagram.com/sonicflare/
đFollow me on Discord: discord.gg/q3aWJwwCkT
đDM me with inquiries for future reviews or interviews.
#audio #music #hifi #stereo #records #sonicflare
Thanks for watching the video Turntable cartridge setup 101!
He didn't mention how to set the zenith angle correctly although he mentioned that a lot of cartridges have misaligned cantilevers. Most generic protractors from turntable manufacturers advise the user to align the cartridge body within a series of line segments at the 2 null points. This can create an issue if the cantilever is misaligned in relationship to the cart. body.
I don't know of any typical audiophile that owns a scope.
Test record with L and R channel output and a meter on the phono or preamp will do it. Or get the Fozometer(sp?). Thatâs all you need. And if the stylus is obviously off when you look at it, replace it.
The zenith angle error was discovered by WallyTools JR Boisclair using a very costly microscope. His cartridge inspection service analyzes and presents a correction gauge to achieve perfect zenith angle. Itâs easily audible. His work should be lauded not attacked. Buyers of costly cartridges are often shortchanged not purposely but because most cartridge manufacturers are at the mercy of cantilever/stylus manufacturers who allow up to 4 degree error specs and sometimes go way over that. If you spend thousands on a cartridge itâs worth $500 more to get a full report and align based on it.
@@Fluterrathatâs not all you need. Itâs Fozgometer. You need a carefully manufactured test record. The cutting stylus used to manufacture some test records can be improperly aligned in the chuck.
@trackingangle929 whatâs funny of course is that you have not addressed a single point that Arian is making; you are merely either spewing non-related âBSâ that wasnât even brought up in the video, or are shilling for WT or whom ever. Personally, I donât give a hoot about your opinions because they are mostly wrong, but thatâs a different discussion. Fact is, you sound really, really trigged by this video which of course is fun to watch. đ€Łđđ”
@@trackingangle929 I am not attacking WallyTools or any other proper protractor tools. The point of my story is that all tracking errors, horizontal, azimuth or vertical are compound errors that consist of stylus to cantilever tolerances, cantilever suspension tolerances, cantilever to internal motor misalignment and internal motor manufacturing tolerances. All standard protractor tools do not get further than mechanically aligning the cartridge housing and fully ignore all other deviations in the cartridge. Most other mechanical/optical tools do not get further than aligning the stylus in the groove but ignore all other internal cartridge deviations. By analyzing the actual electrical performance at the output of the cartridge you get the full picture of all compounded errors. Compound errors of more than 10 degrees in any or all three dimensions is very common. The fun part is that by analyzing the electrical output you can actually align every angle for maximum performance without compromise as long as you use the right alignment order. Last but not least, not all cartridges are properly designed (regardless of cost), but most of them are. In those instances an optimum cannot be found (especially VTA). In those cases it's up to the listener whether they like it or not, but it's not a real representation from what's in the groove.
Interesting, thanks for this content. Be great to have a second video where he can go into the detail of a set up process, measurement tools and show by example if he is willing to share. If he's not willing to share the details for free potentially something he can put to video and market.
Good point, next time I visit him, I will do just that!
Thanks Danny. A picture is worth a thousand words. A video showing what a term actually is referring to would be tremendous.
@KRay-km8hh agreed and point well taken!
If the cartridge is crooked, itâs not going to play âperfectlyâ đ
I would love seeing Mr. Jansen doing a setup video with the AP test record and an oscilloscope.
Next time I visit him, Iâll do that. All in good time!
@@SonicFlare Perfect, looking forward to that
So if iam correct I only need to put a cartridge in the headshell using a protractor and the rest with the Analogue productions test LP
No, you are not correct, it's far more complicated than that unfortunately... đđ€Ł
â@@SonicFlarehow complicated is it without being too complicated or turn off
could you give me a starting point and from there some steps to follow without getting lost in a rabbit hole of possibility
I also consider buying the Analogue productions test LP of which I assume necessary for the final measurements
It really depends on your skill set - are you comfortable handling the cartridge (I ask, because I know people who are literally terrified of it!); are you comfortable handling small tools and screws; then, I would spend money and get the Analog Magik software kit plus alignment records and an A/D USB converter - this will give you everything you need to get started. The alternative is to get a simple jig - protractor - and start futzing with it. The issue is that you canât possibly account for cartridge manufacturing errors because you canât measure them and you really could only see them from a cantilever and stylus side with a microscope. That would still not account for whatever crookedness the motor structure has or doesnât have which of course you canât see not even with a microscope.
So⊠itâs complicated đ
Two cents regarding electrically vs. optical alignment.
Aligning a cartridge purely with electrical measurements ignores the position and skewness of the stylus and diamond. For a spherical stylus that can obviously be ignored, but for sharper profiles in particular, and in the unfortunate but not rare event of a misaligned diamond, stylus and motor, electrical measurements alone will result in a skewed diamond position, which can harm your records. (Remember the super sharp van den Hul profiles in the 80s)
Optical alignments on the other hand: The simpler ones only consider cartridge geometry, which ignores diamond and cantilever skewness.
But even if you include the diamond position under a microscope, it will completely ignore the position of the suspension.
Hence, the best practice is combining both to ensure that a cartridge performs electrically as good as possible while staying geometrically in an acceptable variation.
Personally, I agree with that - even Arian uses a basic jig to set the basics up first. I think the point that was perhaps missed the most in this video - at the time of recording it, I didn't think of really honing in on that particular point - is just how awful construction of "high-end" cartridges really is. You pay $5, $10, $20(!)k for a cartridge and expect it to be designed and manufactured to some level of standards. In marketing speak, they all avoid this because they have to know just how awful some of these cartridges are made. In reality, the consumer is left holding the bag of kaka, and is then told that using a jig or alignment method will surely set the cartridge up properly when in fact it simply does not.
You would think that MF the MF or reviewers of his stature and reach would use their levers to educate people on this fact, but they simply do not and rarely, if ever, mention it and then only in some passing. So instead of manufacturers of stylus and motor structure being held to account and find ways to improve their QC and designs, they are left to do what they continue to do, which is produce awfully aligned parts for willingly submissive consumers who generally don't know any better.
Manufacturers of cartridges of course don't dare speak of this either because no sane person would spend top dollars for a premium cartridge knowing it's completely out of alignment.
What's the moral of the video? Use a scope and analyzer - or use something like Analog Magik - generally poopooed by many audiophiles - and your computer to find out how bad your cartridges are made. There's my 2 cents. Which is really negative 37 cents these days.
@@SonicFlare I shamelessly return every cartridge than not runs within spec. Funnily enough, you donât have this kind of issues with the cheap AT cartridges I tried. They run in very tight tolerances.
@@jazzmetalaudiophile isnât that really funny? I mean itâs the exact opposite of course, but none of this will ever change until these manufacturers are held to any account. Then again, itâs hai-end audio⊠full of BS! đ€Łđ€·đ»ââïž
@@jazzmetalaudiophile PS: and good for you - money talks. BS walks. I remember Arian setting up a very expensive - $20k? - cartridge, I donât remember what it was, some Japanese unicorn, at CES one year. When he was done, the rep felt the cartridge looks so completely ridiculous in the head shell that they took it off and ran some inexpensive Shelter instead. Go figure.
@@SonicFlare the new old entry level shelter is insane. The big cantilever provider changed the diamond diameter silently. It improved the sound dramatically. For ~250 a steal
Where does one sign up?? đ
Haha! Email him, heâll fly out and do it!
@@SonicFlare Roger that. Just wanted to be the first commenter!!!!đ€
@StuartMcFarlane LOL! Classic. đ€Ł
nemeth
Ploner!!!
This is wrong. Simply because there is no âbestâ setup. Why? Because itâs impossible to perfect all the variables. Itâs a trade off. Thatâs why nothing beats listening, especially by an expert.
There is a best setup. Itâs the setup that corresponds to the optimal settings the cartridge is designed to perform under. You really think your ears or the ears of your âexpertâ arenât a trade off?
@@SonicFlare itâs really not that complicated: and often you have to compromise on one parameter because adjusting one will affect the others. HTA is set with a good protractor; tracking weight with a good scale, noting that the optimal weight is decided by ear, most cartridges will give you a range of weights, not one weight; VTA is definitely not set by tool and can make a big difference, especially with more âexoticâ stylus shapes; AS is definitely set by ear, and Azimuth is set with a test record and a L/R channel meter. Thatâs it.
@@SonicFlare No tool is perfect, first of all. So even that reference record is going to vary in terms of channel separation, eccentricity, and noise. There is NO BEST SETUP! You often have to adjust tracking force to get better dynamics, slight adjustments to VTA can make a huge difference. If you cartridge is so badly misaligned that it looks âoffâ, certainly return it and donât use it. Itâs ridiculous to say âit looked really off but it sounds goodâ. No, it doesnât sound good - itâs certainly not optimal if the stylus is not centered. TT Setup is actually quite simple. You need a protractor, scale, and a way to measure L/R channel levels (to verify Azimuth), thatâs it.
Nothing beats correct measured set up and then adjusting among the variables by ear.
@@Fluterraitâs not quite simple
Turn that machine off on the background! Itâs distracting us .
Just did!
If the cartridge is slightly out of perfect geometry, you will unlikely hear a difference after straining your neck checking this, that and the other.
Depends on the misalignment
that I agree with.
It all depends on a multitude of factors really.
Turntable cartridge setup 101?
Thatâs what Iâve been doing for decades.
@@trackingangle929 I guess this was a good baiting title, they hooked me in. All I learned was that he knows how to setup cartridges, good for him. As for me, I went to sleep just as dumb and Iâll most certainly be baited again. What I do gain from videos like this is empathy for our water creatures.
đŽđ€đŽ
Havenât watched fully yet but I Hope he is debunking the BS from the likes of Wally, and others. Their tools have so much error that you may be more off than without using them.
đŻ
Wally isnât BS you are. What tools have errors? If you are going to make such a charge clarify what they are. Itâs easy to come here and spew BS. Which of his tools do you own?
@@trackingangle929 join the next round table, bring Wally along! Should be a piece of cake for you two to dismantle Arian and his âBullshitâ
Did I use the word âbullshitâ?
@@SonicFlareWally died a few years ago. JR Boisclair now runs the company. Nothing he claims is disputable. Itâs all science based. It can be mischaracterized and distorted but it veracity cannot. Of course test records are imperfect but heâs measured most of them for azimuth and the Analogue Production one so far comes closest to perfect but of course every record you own was cut on cutter heads that differ in key ways. All of that is true and whichever geometry you choose encompasses compromises but so what? Choose where you want your null points and use it etc. thereâs really nothing to debate.
Cartridge/Tonearm compliance>effective mass? Bloody hell and you have a go at Audiophiles? Can't use your ear? Of course you can. Why not? If you have the basics down pat, you will get close. VTA? 120 gram LP vs 180 gram. There goes your VTA. This is Lol factor.
The difference in VTA/SRA between 120 and 180 gram records is negligible. LOL back at you.
@@trackingangle929 Exactly!
@@trackingangle929 Not to people who measure and adjust VTA in ridiculously small amounts it isn't. My point is, it doesn't matter. This guy was over exemplifying it.
Agreed - I think it's silly. I also think that futzing over SRA angles is really not the be all end all, because it depends on so many prior factors, including how well the cutting stylus was setup, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
The jokes you cut in are very annoying, sorry, I don't like that.
Triggered are we?
Stupid audio
Agreed, ridiculous!