Theo Rants About Shadow of the Erdtree | EFAP Highlight
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Theo shreds Elden Ring's major expansion, Shadow of the Erdtree, and breaks down its numerous pitfalls and shortcomings.
ORIGINAL VIDEO: czcams.com/users/live3_KDVb-x...
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OUTRO MUSIC: “Last Stop” by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio - Hry
"you never played it, you suck ,you're the worst" thats true friendship.
"Friendship?! Again?!" - Shao Kahn
Okay Lewis
Metal to Theo: "Should I talk or do you just want to spit hot lava immediately?" LOL
Quiet, Rags. The adults are talking.
*makes the gesture*
i've understood that reference!
Yeah fr
adult's's's's
But it's time to let the children play?
@@seeinred I didn't understand this reference.. 😥
This was the most passion Theo ever showed, save for Unicron.
BLACKHOLE MIMICRY!?!
@@heikira438 Theo has triggered Calamity Hell
I don't understand how FromSoft seriously improved the camera in Sekiro, the way it could zoom out or pan up to match the boss, and then completely throw that out for Elden Ring. I distinctly remember fighting the Guardian Ape and how the camera would move up when it was about to throw its entire body in the last sword attack of its combo, then it would zoom in on Wolf after parrying. That's fantastic camera work that gives you visual clarity of the boss's movement, then immerses you in how strong the attack was by keeping Wolf in 40% of the frame, probably reeling from how much force he had to put not only into blocking, but not falling over immediately afterward. Fighting Ulcerated Tree Spirit for the first time in Fringefolk Hero's Grave, not having even opened the gate to Limgrave, gave me motion sickness.
And to the point about boss design, I was watching Theo's gameplay while still listening to what he had to say. I think Theo is too rigid in his gameplay style, but I understand his arguments to the bosses being too damn anime. Elden Ring is the first Souls game where I felt shields were fantastic to use instead of just throwing a Grass Crest Shield on my back and calling it a day. Theo is trying to play it like Dark Souls where you roll through everything because bosses were way slower. I will do that for magic attacks, but if I know it's full Physical damage, then I won't hesitate to throw up my Brass Shield, probably the best shield you can get immediately, because I have enough stamina to tank it and get a counterattack in. Guard Counter attacks do way more 'Posture' damage to open enemies to ripostes, and that drastically changed how I played the game by that point.
This is Metal's gameplay, not Theo's. I think there might have been one short clip shared by Theo to demonstrate camera wonkiness in one of the boss fights, but everything else was livestream recordings from Metal's playthrough.
In short, Theo sucks at the game and doesn't understand 80% of the mechanics at all...only valid complaint is the camera, it needs some fixing, everything else he bitches about is utter nonsense.
Something to add to the "anime" criticism, every fucking boss in the dlc either has 2 swords, spins unnecessarily and unintuitively, or both. It is a very cringe experience watching everything turn into a beyblade reenactment just because it "looks cool".
He's playing it like ds because it is ds
What shields were fucking beast in dark souls 1
“I have done shit that you people could not believe souls games”
I watched a guy play through all of dark souls 3 with bananas hooked up to wires as his controller, I guarantee you you have not done that
@@TheChilipepper77 legit saw some chick do a no hit run on a dance dance revolution mat, shit was funny af 🤣
You have not seen what I have seen
@@ViolentMessiah666I saw that too but thought the banana was more impressive
@@TheChilipepper77 never seen that one, might have to check it lol, all I know is that girls cardio was very impressive 😅
A guy coached his goldfish to beat Malenia.
I understand Theo’s frustration. But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t love the dlc
It's fine to like it, I just hope you(anyone reading) would have the self-awareness to identify the Quality of what they are playing, and this is Very bad
People had a lot of fun with the SW Sequels, it was very bad, its fine to like them, it's bad that so many people are insecure to admit the bad quality of them, and the same thing is happening here, people doing a nearly dogmatic defense of something of very bad quality that they happen to like, the Objectivity really goes out the window when their favorite thing is the target of criticism, and it's dissapointing.
@uneterostardust8233 I just think the people complaining about difficulty, just don't know how to make builds. Damage negation is very very important, not just vigor.
@@lustrazor44 My guy, you clearly didn't listen to any of his complaints.
@@MilkT0ast I just think anyone complaining about the ST are just Bigroots ~~youtube censor~~
I mean, if that's your argument, K, basically just another dogmatic dismissal, "everything is the player's fault and never the game's", kinda true for DS1, but the rest have issues of the game itself, DS2 my friend how hath thou damaged the games and community..
@@lustrazor44 TLJ is not bad, it's very obvious, did you not find the Lighspeed rush A-MMMaaaazing? it's Excelent. gosh gee them bigroots homophonics reycisms
/s, obviously
So we've a distinction between us, now.
The Theo who rages against Shadow of the Erdtree
And
The Theo that doesn't play Souls games
7:52
Skibidi tree fragments fucking killed me.
I’m curious what Theo thought abt Midra. Like Messmer he was a vos that I could easily get into a flow state, his attack strings weren’t very long and well telegraphed, and his openings were pretty plentiful.
Also on Messmer, his big anime snake moves are surprisingly easy to dodge; not obnoxiously delayed, and longer punish windows than normal Messmer
I don't mind Midra. I don't particularly love him, but I thought he was okay. I appreciated how readable he was, but he was also a bit simple, funnily enough. So consider that a non-disparaging 'he was okay', if that makes sense
@@TheottreeHey Theo, always great to hear your input. Love how passionate you are about these things, never change mate.
@@TheottreeThat was basically my experience with Midra. Hes the least offensive.
Theo ranting about things he hates is the only thing that gives me joy in life.
random things being the only thing that give people joy in life is the only thing that gives me joy in life
I love that this joke has become such a community fixture lol
The fact that this meme has become a community fixture is the only thing that brings me joy in life
@ViolentMessiah666
The fact that this meme having become a fixture that brings you joy is the only joy I have in life.
Honestly, Theo talking abotu stuff he's passionate about is just great, in Arcane coverage he is also very enjoyable, it just so happens that more often than not he is complaining about something
Ive never met someone who can be as reductive in one sentence and then hyperbolic the next as Theo
This comment being reductive and hyperbolic is perfect
@@-Azure.EXE-oil up
Maybe provide an example and explain how he's being reductive and hyperbolic? Because without those things, your comment can't be anything except hyperbolic and reductive.
Theo at least provided examples and explained his position. You've essentially just said nothing except "nuh-uh."
@@AlphaOmega1237 I haven't seen anyone provide arguments against Theos points. They're all vague statements about him being "trash" or some idea that he's just spewing contrarionism. No real arguments to be found.
But he does suck and he's playing a game he openly don't like 😂
Sekiro is indeed peak Fromsoft, Mauler. Thank you.
Sekiro is my 10/10 single player game. Fantastic characters, story and gameplay.
It is for the first playthouth. Other games are more replayble but that first one in Sekiro is miles above everything else imo. And i'm someone who nevery plays parry if they don't have to.
One of the only things I disagreed with Theo on in this video is how he implies Sekiro is actually not that good compared to other action games. I absolutely adore Sekiro and would need massive unpacking of that claim before ever agreeing with it.
@@OldyAlbert It does have re-playability. Sekiro has 4 endings, one of which is extremely different from the others including its own unique boss fight.
The boss gauntlets are challenging and fun.
There are different ways the conversations can go depending on factors like the Sake and ending you are committing to.
@@ThePetriaxI literally just get on the game, do reflections of strength, and get off. If demon of hatred didn’t exist I would give it a perfect 10/10, instead it’s only a 9.9/10
I use summons, ashes, and magic. Things die and I have fun.
Exactly. I domt understand these arbitrary limitations.
If uou are struggling use a summon. No shame in it
And all power to you friend
It’s almost like the game was designed around using them
@@brandondrake69 The base game no, the dlc maybe
@sebbo59 The base game definitely was but I think there were some oversights. Hilarious that Theo hasn't even tried summons in the DLC though - he'd know then that aside from Mimic Tear 90% of them get BTFO'd well before the boss actually dies.
I love the idea of the boss stealing your Estus and chugging it in front of you.
Obligatory "Hi Wolf".
I remember missing your channel dearly, great to see you're doing fine. Have an amazing day!
As someone who enjoyed the DLC while also being aware of its flaws, I'd like for Theo to tone down the hyperbole a little bit, because he's got a very good base, and is super correct on many accounts. He makes so many points that are absolute truth nukes here, like "There is now no longer any connection between the visual information presented to you and what your reaction should be, it's pure guesswork until you can memorize the timings." or "Souls game combat is really not that advanced", but for every point like that, he says something bizarre like "This game/DLC is basically Skyrim."
You can sense the split in the community with this DLC, and bosses like Consort Radahn exemplify it. That boss is insanely hard in a way most people don't seem to enjoy, but if you try to break down why (constantly flashbanging you with particle effects, terrible camera that gets obscured by Mickey's hair, half of his attacks in phase 2 are extremely unintuitive as to how you're supposed to dodge them, etc.) you'll be met with a wall of "git gud" and "here's a vid of Ongbal no-hit beating him at RL1 with a USB steering wheel."
We could really use a reasoned, polite and well-argumented breakdown here. I hope Theo can keep his rage in check for his video and not go full CURSE YOOOUUUU, ELDEN RIIIIING like he did here, because if you open with "This was the most unpleasant experience I've ever had with a game," you'll instantly piss off most of the people who liked this DLC, rather than win them to your side.
Matthewmathosis, where are you?
Yeah like I think it's both hard for people in the souls community to take criticism as Game Journos and outsiders to the community typical crap on the franchise because it's "too hard", but also tough to take real criticism seriously when people say hyperbolic stuff like, "it's the most unpleasant game I've ever played"
What if it was tho
if you play the game trying to learn the move sets and not beating using craft/summon to stack ridiculous amount of power, its really anoying to learn anything in this DLC.
And theo needs to realize 90% of his criticisms can summed as "it's not simple enough for me." Well jesus wept guy, im sorry fromsoftware is the fastest growing video game company in the workd and trying new things. Maybe go back to dark souls 1 because simplicity seems to be his speed. I on the other absolutely ADORE being surprised by these boss mechanics. Makes me feel like im fighting something intelligent.
@@mrkennady So like my main criticism of Souls combat is that it lacks depth. This is a criticism of it being *too* simple. I would rather play deeper action games
In the next FromSoft Souls game, they're gonna have bosses that will raise their weapon and just stand there, occasionally making a mocking motion as if they're about to strike and then pull it back and say "Haha, you flinched!" and then after 10-20 seconds of doing that they'll oneshot you in half a frame.
Now that will be the next level of pattern learning, I can't wait to read the guides for that boss. "Ultermaximus will wait 3 seconds, after that the tell for his attack will be either him calling you gay, or trying to tell you about ligma".
this guy got stuck in the catacombs and quit elden ring
Stop fucking panic rolling and the game gets 10000x easier
@@nickh4354 who are you even talking about? Both me and Theo beat this game with the dlc. I'd bet money that I've beaten more souls likes than you've played games in your life.
@@He-who-wakes 10000x easier? By god, can this game made for casual shitters get even easier? What is panic rolling by the way, is that something you tourists to the genre do?
@@crimsonpotemkin explain how I'm a tourist in detail please. You knuckle dragging redditor
I find it respectful to defend your opinion with logical arguments against thousands of people on a livestream despite almost everyone disagreeing with your point. I'm not sure i would handle such pressure. I would probably conform to the norm or shut the fuck up entirely unless the truth is absolutely obvious and disagreeing is ridiculous.
Add "frantically lash out" to the list and that's my expectation for myself in that position.
Except Theo didn't use any logical arguments, he just sucks at the game.
@@AscendantStoic Well, someone wasn't listening...
@@AscendantStoicI don't know where u got this idea from considering he beat the dlc with heavy self-imposed restrictions. Are u sure you were listening?
@fabiof.8152 I listened and it was nothing but nonsense.
The main issue I've had is the performance of the game has been awful since the dlc came out. Used to get a solid 60fps now some areas are mid 20fps, my pc more than meets the requirements.
Yes that is an issue. I believe its because it has all areas loaded in so you can quickly jump from map to map. Strange trade off but thats what they picked
When was Theo introduced again? I recall them plucking him from chat while watching one of his videos I think. I've been wanting to rewatch that but I forget what episode it's in.
Was a Joseph Anderson episode wasn't it? One of the primordial episodes
EFAP #16
@@TheRedGauntlet Wait, was Theo the guy who wrote that incredible comment criticising Joseph Anderson, and they got him on for a chat about it?
@@NintendanGX Yes
It was Joseph Anderson being a massive.
Bed of Chaos is still my top pick for worst boss of the Souls series. It shouldn't really count as a boss, closer to an obstacle course.
@@rollandingo760 I'd still rather fight it 3 times in a row than go up against Ludd and Zalen.
@AdmarilDarius that might be the the worst boss run back ever. Having to go through the whole frigid outskirts for each attempt.
@@rollandingo760 Even today it boggles the mind that they made a run back even worse than the iron passage and Sir Allone's.
I don't think the first Dark Souls had any good up until the last one and the DLC
@@coltonwilkie241 Ornstein and Smough?
I'm sorry but if you did the Igon Questline and say you didn't feel anything well i really don't know what to say but to each his own. Damn but still damn
I liked Igon!
@@TheottreeI completely understand your perspective about how no other game could replicate the emotional highs of ds1 for you. I didn't have the same experience with it, but since it's pretty subjective, I can get where you're coming from with that. Sif and Artorias are just too damn effective, man.
As a side note, I genuinely believe fromsoftware has the worst fanbase in videogame history in terms of Stockholm syndrome, largely due to not experiencing the stand-outs in the genre. This comment section has been driving me insane.
Unicron's bs powers unlocked a passion inside Theo. I aprove of these rants.
Ill keep it real. We all like messmer cuz he has reasonable health lmao hes pretty much a glass cannon
He also has some far more reasonable punish windows
Idk if I’d call Messmer a glass cannon. He mainly appears that way because he’s the only boss that doesn’t feel bloated like the rest.
The most important thing is that sekiro is still the best souls game
Aye. Here is hoping that the next From project is something closer to that, rather than Elden Ring 2. I am just tired of this combat system. Dark Souls 3 was a fine sendoff for this kind of stamina-based system. ER really needed something better (bloodborne trick weapons + faster player speed probably would have worked well).
The part when they were saying that ALL souls games are pure memorization is complete bullshit. Most games in general require some sort of memorization, but never like this. In every souls game until now you could intuitively roll and react to attacks, sure some specific attacks needed to be learned, like artoris's ground smash that he would cancel into another one if you attacked him to soon, most will not see this coming. But in this dlc you have to memorize EVERYTHING, right down to the seconds it takes for the delay attack to come down, ive never had to do that before, even with fucking GAEL.
Based take, Elden Ring reminds me of DS 2 in the sense that its major concern is to kill you... It has the tightest openings, the most input reading, the bosses with the most health, the most stamina, the most poise, and weird combos that stop or keep going depending on your distance... this isn't to say that that Elden ring isn't without excellent boss fights like Radagon, Godfrey or Placidusax, even the DLC has fantastic fights like Midra, Mesmerr, and Rallana... This is to say that we have completely abandoned the idea of Hard but fair...
It’s almost like Elden Ring isn’t a a Dark Souls game 🤔
I wonder if we double boss attack speed and make it that every instance of damage is a 1 shot kill is it still balanced and a skill issue ? Some people will be able to beat the dlc like that.
Im asking what is the difference between unfair and a simple skill issue. If the answer is that its unfair as long as your not skilled enough gaming discourse is dead because i can add skill issue to almost any sauce.
You ever look up what a Kaizo game is? Provided you have are you going to be dumb enough to ask this question the same way?
Some guy will be able to beat it with a complex fruit network, therefore it's fair.
Ironpineapple beat the game on SL 1 so that means the game is fair.
@griffiththechad9483 is this sarcasm? If not: how?! Why?! When did humanity make you the standard for difficulty in games? You could be very good, you could be a liar, you could be stubborn, etc. That's just silly.
can't beat a hacker in (PvP game)? Skill issue, (Pro gamer 69) beat a hacker once
It's absolute brainrot
On the memorization of combat; I somewhat agree. Although I was able to beat a few of the bosses on a first try, most of the timings of attacks were so frickin bizzarre that you kinda just had to face tank fights until you memorized the combos (putrescence being the most agregious, in my opinion).
On the fragment upgrades; I think it was a good idea that was poorly executed. I wouldve preferred they were either far more abundant (like flask charge items) or were standardized with bosses like Sekiro.
On the over-indulgence of bosses; I also somewhat agree. There's not much of a contrast between the bosses when all of them fly around and shoot lasers like Goku. They probably should've reserved the crazy movesets for a select few bosses, as compared to everyone
I agree with you heavily on this
But you dont need to pick up the fragments again? I did a ng+ and my things stayed at their level
Exactly. He doesnt even know what hes talking about.
@@theredknight9314 I'm just confused cause Metal seems to use that as a point against the dlc when he clearly hasn't checked that
tbh i always play new characters not ng+ so i think he is talking about that
@@vaaaasa Huh, I never really thought of that. But I mean... exploring it a second time is far easier due to being a lot more familiar with the map, but even so the fragments aren't required to beat them if you really don't want to look for them again. They seem pretty on the path to wherever you are going anyway.
he was probably talking about starting a new save
ok so here's my solution.
1) two dodges, B tap is a sekiroesque sidestep, b 2x is a roll
2) blocks and perfect blocks. block holding drains stamina over time, perfect blocks have a meter for staggering
3) jumpable indicators. something to let me know I can jump an AOE because I hate how worthless it is.
that'd be great
Blocking shouldnt be changed, dedicated turtle builds should be able to turtle and poke if properly invested for that. However, the deflecting hardtear should just be part of the basic blocking mechanics instead of being locked behind a wonderous physic buff.
@@newwick youd have both. if you built total turtle, you'd aim for pure block power 100% defense blah blah blah. but other builds could focus perfect blocking at the cost of chip damage. that would also give a reason for stamina Regen builds.
I LOVED Elden Ring, but I kinda agree with a lot that he was saying. Something has been changing and I think it definitely culminated in this DLC. I can't wait for his video to drop.
I had loads of fun with the game back during launch, I'm a huge fan of the Horizon games (Zero Dawn & Forbidden West, not the racing games xD) and Elden Ring just completely took over at that time and made me abandon Forbidden West until a later date.
But in the last "Third" of the game, it started gradually becoming more and more unenjoyable. I had my vigor soft-capped and I was dying in 2-to-3 hits from basic enemies in Forts or Dungeons in the Mountaintops of the Giants area for example. And then at that point almost every boss had "anime sh*t" (its funny that I called it this too while ranting to my gf at the time who was also playing it, goes to show how it really is unfitting in the game lol)
And if it wasn't anime sh*t, then it was AoE, AoE, AoE and flurries after flurries of moves. It started taking away the fun and making me just.. straight up not feel enjoyment whenever I beat a boss. I still felt accomplishment when I finished the game but there was a hint of a feeling of having finished a chore. A game should never feel that way.
But there's this mentality within the souls community where complaints are unnaceptable. There's complaints I still did back then but it wasnt of the difficulty, it was of the open world design. A lot of "ArTiClEs" and YoUtUbErS" would post sh*t saying that FromSoft open world design should be the industry standard, and for other companies to pay attention as exploration was perfect in it, etc.
I do agree that having a screen cluttered with sh*t blips a la Ubisoft is terrible. But Elden Ring's lack of quest logs, direction, NPC locations, and utterly insane obscure triggers for quest progressions makes it that people have to open up guides on the internet to figure sh*t out to get specific endings or simply complete sidequests. That's not good game design at all in my opinion and saying it was always met with toxic feedback.
So I never really mentioned the "artificial difficulty BS" that was ALLLLL OVER this game's end-game areas. I kinda just sucked it up, took pride in that I finally beat it, and that now I could beat anything.
Now the DLC released and it takes the bullsh*t of that Endgame and cranks it up to 11. 🤣 And nobody can say anything because the community is so toxic and cult-like that nobody can criticize FromSoft.
Without this criticism, FromSoft may not learn that this direction they're headed is terrible and completely antithecal to the original design ideas of the souls series. Needless to say, I'm concerned about their future games, and UNNNBELIEEEVABLY GLAD that Sekiro was made *BEFORE* Elden Ring. I have a feeling it'd be caked with sh*t present in this DLC otherwise.
38:02 in what way is dodge rolling the “almost only” way of defense in Elden ring. There are multiple types of shields, damage negation spells, items, and consumables, your armor stats matter, summoning, and there is parrying.
I can agree with Theo on a few things about ER but when he says shit like this all it tells me is that he refuses to use tools given to him by the devs and only wants to play this game like dark souls which it is not.
Dodging in ER is absolutely the most optimal way to avoid damage. No amount of gimmicks and cheese builds is going to beat the 100% damage reduction at a single button press that can be done nigh infinitely.
@@TheBlastmeistershields can have 100% physical negation.
I finished the final boss sword and board, relying much more on blocking with a shield than rolling out of attacks. It's very doable, you just need the Greatshield Talisman and a strong shield.
Essentially what the other reply said. Dodging is fairly close to strictly better than blocking, outside of builds optimised to block that trivialise the game in a way that I don't enjoy. I don't want damage negation and defences to help me facetank, that's not my issue - I want to play ball with the boss and learn to avoid everything it throws at me. I want to master it. So I guess in that sense yeah I do refuse to use tools. But since my problem is not primarily the level of difficulty, and using these tools would not change the gameplay outside of making it easier, I don't think they would improve my opinions of anything I interacted with. Blocking is the only one I did use, and that was only when the game borderline forced me to by presenting attacks that cannot be rolled through consistently if at all.
@seafoam6119 good thing all bosses only do physical damage, right?
Oh shit. It's Theo!
I get Theos argument, and even agree with some points, but frankly I hard disagree on the idea that some of it is in any way objectively bad. Like for example he mentions the spear drag messmer does for a big attack, and refers to the follow up, drag, snap as a point of egregious delay. But for many, myself included, it was an easy to read attack. There are a lot of tells in the game that by his logic are bad because they delay in an abnormal sense but I never once felt it was bad or hard to predict. That’s just one point and on some of it (some attacks do have ludicrous tracking or unclear hitboxes) has merit, but for the most part I feel his point largely boils down to personal preference.
The point is that it's a stupid attack to have, why would messmer scrape his spear against the ground in a fight against you outside of the "meta" of it being a delayed attack.
@@BigGuy1989 not really seeing an issue there. There are plenty of exaggerated or impractical attacks in these games, heck, in media generally. It fits both for the visual appeal and the fact that yeah it’s for the delay.
@@CrispyChaos38 the problem is that it's immersion breaking. Instead of him doing attacks that look and feel like an attempt of messmer to kill you he's now doing the delay attack. On top of that it's likely something similar to Radahn's quintuple spin charge, in that when you see it, you just roll your eyes.
@@BigGuy1989 except it’s clearly not immersion breaking for the vast majority of people. And again by that same token of logic just about any fight in anything ever can be pointed to as immersion breaking. Besides wouldn’t the counter point be messmer was dragging his spear intentionally? That the entire point was fake out on purpose? I’m more inclined to believe Theos issue would be the idea of an attack with a set up followed by an unexpected delay, something which personally I see no issue with in that case.
@@CrispyChaos38 the vast majority of people also still pretend that FromSoft hasn't become a parody of itself, I wouldn't take their impressions on things for much in this case to be honest. I agree that it can be hard to define what breaks immersion to some degree and that this is up to the person, but Elden Ring specifically does it by overruling any kind of momentum you would think is logical for that sake of a delay. I've seen delays in other games and delays in general are perfectly fine for me, I would just like it if they had some fucking restraint, which is something FromSoft no longer has.
With regards to the "why is it reviewing so well" question, i feel Theo needs to appreciate that while he just wants a boss rush, the majority of players really enjoy exploration and the world.
the world in the dlc is disapontly empty compared to base game, a lot less dungeons and shit to do, plus lots of uselless upgrade materials (if i'm in the DLC, LV 150, why tf do i need a somber 2 or smithing 5) making the exploration boring after the first playthrough
unless you count killing drake nº 240582 with a reskin a meaningfull exploration
I find the exploration in ER to be far, far less interesting than the previous, tighter-designed games. It's beautiful, but my urge to explore is killed knowing that 9/10 things I'll find are recycled tileset minidungeons/ruins/fortresses.
@@Chasseur_dProserpina i could not believe my eyes when a saw another dragon in the dlc 😢
Thing is, I don't want a boss rush. I want quite the opposite; my favourite game in the series is DS1, the game with by no means the best boss roster. What I want is more focus on those other aspects or, if the games are gonna keep being really combat-focused, more expansion of what's going on in the combat.
And I can't exactly take away anyone else's enjoyment of the world for sure. But I certainly didn't enjoy the open world or the exploration of it; I felt it was very frequently unrewarding (I don't mean this just in a sense of 'I didn't find big powerups for my build' for what it's worth)
I love Elden Ring, but Theo has some very solid criticisms. He’s spot on about the camera having major issues (even after they handled it near perfectly in Sekiro), the over-the-top anime moves, and the garbage visual clutter of particle affects are way too common. My problem with other criticisms however is that they come across as hyperbolic and just ignores any positive aspects the game has.
I personally try to fight bosses without deliberately remembering attacks because I agree that memorization shouldn’t be a prerequisite. It isn’t what makes these games engaging. Memorization naturally occurs when facing a challenge repeatedly, so it’s going to happen naturally if you do.
People think this is what they enjoyed about it, but there’s much more to it than that. Otherwise, taping a picture of a dragon to a game of Simon would be considered peak design. This faulty logic basically became a meme and a repeated point of praise and I think From Software listened and incorporated this feedback into many of the boss and enemy designs with delayed attacks and bullshit like waterfowl dance.
There should be reasonable tells that convey to the player a general idea of what is going to happen and when it’s going to happen. The “skill” doesn’t come from remembering when something is supposed to happen and simply dodging, it’s about managing your resources/stamina and responding by applying your build or playstyle to deal with the threat.
However, the vast majority of attacks do not require memorization. I had no problem dealing with most attacks by reading tells and movements. Positioning is important too, so it’s not just about dodge timing. Positioning yourself for an opening to attack or into spots where bosses will need to readjust giving you time to regain stamina or heal is crucial. This is the vast majority of attacks in the games but there are also plent that are barely, if not entirely, unreadable before memorizing them.
Even with that being the case, I can see how this can sour the feeling of it entirely and it’s a legitimate complaint, but it also doesn’t mean that every aspect of the attacks and combat are fucked.
It took me a while to come to grips with the fact that it is not meant to be played like the Souls games. There are entire new mechanics to utilize like stance breaking, block countering, and jumping/jump attacks that all add new approaches to combat.
Another important aspect is finding openings within enemy attack chains / combos to get hits in rather than having a back and forth between being on the offensive and defensive as it would often be in previous games.
Realizating this made the seeming relentlessness of bosses feel much more manageable.
This, when combined with the greater emphasis on adjusting to enemy resistances and using consumables if needed, makes it a game where both skill and knowledge are equally important to success.
I’m also mixed on the open world and it’s design. It’s nice to see that they tried to experiment with their formula, but it had varying degrees of success. On one hand, it’s not as fleshed out or well-paced as the more self-contained area / level design from previous games and the implementation of some world bosses and the locations they inhabit is just awful, but on the other hand I can clearly see how many aspects of their level design were applied to the layout of the world and it resulted in in a design that, even with it’s faults, still greatly surpasses many other open world games from developers that had been doing it for a long time.
I would like to see FromSoft do something DS1 in both world design and tone again, and will happily support a push for that in future games, but I don’t let that paint my perception of Elden Ring because it’s own thing.
If I remember correctly, Miyazaki had said this game was meant to be much different because it’s about facing off against great deities and have a more grand presentation. Being different doesn’t make it bad, I’d be way more critical if it was Dark Souls 4, but it’s not for a reason.
Of course we should criticize and point out the problems we see, but we shouldn’t act like the entire game is a trashfire and every aspect of it’s design philosophy should be tossed because some aspects were handled poorly or didn’t work (especially when there’s a lot of good aspects as well) and because it’s different from a company’s past work.
It’s also just as awful to dismiss any criticisms without good reasoning. My enjoyment if Elden Ring isn’t hindered by acknowledging the flaws, but it is when I think about how people just seem to ignore them and refuse to talk about them. I want their future games to be even better, but they can only do that if we’re honest, both in criticism and praise.
I’ll end saying I’m not worried about From Software “losing their way” so to speak when it comes to their presentation. They still have that “soul” that helped make DS1 so great. Shaman Village in the DLC was powerful. The subdued, strange, and eerily somber track of Metyr and the Ancestral Spirits is reminicent of Gherman and Gwyn. The beauty and atmosphere of Leyndell and discovering the fate of the nomads in the Shunning Grounds below. The reveal and splendor of the rivers and Eternal Cities below ground. The central figure of the Erdtree looming overhead, both beautifully awe-inspiring and ominously foreboding. These are the kinds of things only the people who made Dark Souls could pull-off.
How often do you think people actually read super long CZcams comments?
Nah I’m not reading that sorry bro
Well thought out comment that actually addresses what Theo said instead of sperging out and saying "game too hard for you git gud". I still think the game's world is just stretched too thin, it was a bit of the problem in the base game but turned up to 11 in the DLC. The map is huge but with not enough content or fulfilling rewards to justify it. I think the DLC areas can mostly be cut in half and condensed so that you're not running on torrent for two full minutes just to pick up a glovewort. I hope this direction would only be continued in an Elden Ring sequel and not for the rest of their games in the future, especially with any Sekiro or Bloodborne sequels that may or may not happen. Either way I hate how people think Souls games are immune to criticism, because they only see any criticism as "game too hard" and the series has had a history of bloating the player's ego by going "oh this game is so hard, your average player could never beat this game" when in reality Dark Souls isn't the hardest game series out there. Oh well, maybe Fromsoft games need to just get even worse before souls fans can stop doing spins on Fromsofts dick.
All of your examples of why From had not lost its way don't have to do with gameplay, though. Few people criticize the presentation, design, art, music, lore, etc. But From has made a clear decision to move toward a gameplay design that favors heavily delayed attacks with combo chains, cancelling, hyperarmor, and so on; very long combos, many of which begin with or end with the enemy retreating from a punish window; very fast enemies/bosses while the player remains relatively slow. They have three variations on their formula, Souls, Bloodborn, and Sekiro, and they've tried to blend them in a way that verges on being annoying sometimes. I'm sure there's some sick freak who thinks the Curseblades are the greatest enemy design ever, but I'd bet most people don't feel that way. There are people who at least claim that Consort is the pinnacle of From bosses, but most people will point to that fight as the representation of everything wrong with modern From design.
I think there are a few bosses that you can get past without memorizing their attacks, Divine Beast, Midra, Romina, Bayle...maybe Gaius. But if you got past Rellana, Messmer, and Radahn with no memorization, hats off. I do not think I could've beaten Radahn without having his moveset memorized well enough to eventually get lucky in his second phase.
Heres a quick tip for any one struggling with the dlc.
Focus on "physical damage negation"
Use the Dragon Crest Great Shield Talisman (20%)
Use the Opline Hardtear in the Physiks Flask. (10%)
Eat Boiled crab (20%)
And cast Golden Vow (10%)
That's a total of 60% off the damage you would normally take. And this is NAKED. if you wear heavy armour, it can get up to 80%.
And all this for 25 faith. And 1 talisman slot and 1 physics slot.
Very very low investment for such a strong build. And if you don't want faith, just don't use Golden Vow.
I want to play my build the way I built it tho, I dont want to feel like I need to do these things just to get it over with
@@DozleZabi sure I get that. But the other builds are viable as well.
I have a sheild build that no enemy can bypass.
I also have a glass cannon build. Where I can one shot bosses, but they can one shot me too.
I also have a status effect build.
Where I can proc bleed, scarlet rot, frost and poison all at once.
And all of these builds are viable...you just gotta dodge correctly. And you can still get your damage negation up.
Golden Vow is an item you can craft now.
then stack 1-3 consumables that give damage, amulets that give 15-20 each and use mimic tear, Boss design? game design? nah man i will just skip using the stupid mimic tear/craft system
You can still have Golden Wov AoW on a dagger...yes its weaker but YOU CAN!! ;-)
People need to take advantage of stance breaking in Elden Ring more often; I had way more fun when I did a stance break build then when I was just going for a more "honest" build
Theo! Your bluff has been called: let's duel.
I wanna see this crazy shit you've done I've never seen before 😊
PvP =/= PvE
14:42 Dodging abstract art
50:52 Chugging your estus
54:56 McDonalds
I'm still baffled they haven't done an EFAP covering Lies of P. I'm curious what they all think about that game especially with all the conversations about Souls titles they go into when talking about FromSoft stuff. Unless they did talk about it in a different stream and I missed it.
Mauler did a lets play
@@SecundumMagnusStultus
Yeah I saw some of his streams but it would be cool to see the whole panel do a full discussion.
@@gregrothschilds8453 i guess I have nothing to add then, sorry
They seemed to like it but they'd rather talk about remakes instead it seems.
They made it to where people with a level 70 character and a character that's level 300 can have a fresh difficulty. If you explore then you'll likely destroy the last half of the bosses no problem.
Not true. I explored almost everything 1 level before max sacrurdtree blessing, last boss was a nightmare. I dont agree with all of theo's points but I think the game has issues.
@@brendancoulter5761yeah I’m with you on this. There’s definitely something that feels off. Some further fine tuning and tweaking would be great. For starters, if the final boss stopped flash banging me with every move in phase 2, that’d be nice :D
Eh I would say people will cheese it regardless so just let people play how they want the blessing BS just takes away freedome of the players.
you realize that if there's no inbetween of either getting fucked by bosses or just destroying bosses with no problem, then the game is badly designed, right?
Which was a mistake.
Does Theo have a different CZcams channel? I clicked on the link in the description and it took me to his channel with only 3 videos.
That's the only one, he only recently started making stuff
I don't get the hate for it, had a great time, felt challenged, overcame the challenge, kicked Rellana's ass by smacking her with the big black knight great hammer like she was a piñata. I definitely think people's builds are part of why they have a good or bad time as well as expectations coming in, and not understanding the full breadth of the mechanics. Jumping for one is incredibly underrated and gets you out of many of the jams that rolling doesn't, there's also just understanding what makes a good build and a bad one. It's more complicated than Theo says, but not as complicated as some make it out to be. What I've seen is stubbornness contributes to a lot of headache and combined with having expectations for how you expected your character to perform, it can definitely lead to a bad time.
Stubbornness has to be at least 50% or more of why people call the game unfair.
If I'm struggling I try different builds and strategies. But what I hear other people say is, "If I have to change my build then it's not fair. I should be able to use my build for everything!"
But the problem isn't they can't use a specific build, it's that they aren't good enough to use it.
thats none of the points
I've had a great time too, but there is a lot that should be rightly hated. The power scaling of the enemy damage and health especially are so borked and the scadutree fragments don't "fix" that.
@@BaldorfBreakdownsthat part of the reason why they made point reallocation so easy in this game
@@Alpharisus Yep.
But these people refuse to engage with any mechanic that could, and probably would, help them.
Iron pineapple started the DLC at RL1 and only used items from the DLC and did fine, which while not a R1 run entirely really does show how it’s not “too hard” and people absolutely have the chance to do better. One thing I notice is 100% of the people saying bosses are too hard don’t jump over sweeps and stomps, and fast enemies they don’t parry.
Just to be clear, the iron pineapple example doesn’t really prove anything other than iron pineapple can do what he did. When criticizing the game design, you have to generalize to the average player experience. If there’s a solid percentage of the player base complaining about difficulty, then a solution to the given challenge isn’t being properly communicated by the designer. Games should be challenging, but fair. The argument against the DLC seems to be that if you handicap yourself it becomes beatable, but unfair. If you use all the resources at your disposal it becomes exploitable, and unfair.
@@BS-gk2cb Counter point: the average perso and by extension gamer is stupid and doesn't know what they actually want and trying to appeal to them only makes your game worse.
It is a good thing then because Theo don't argued about the game's difficulty in general, but the *way* it is difficult.
@@fastenedcarrot9570I don't know if I've ever read a more pretentious comment. It's always people like you who neber believe they're part of that group.
@@reactiondavant-garde3391Theo loves ultrakill, of course he doesn't hate difficulty. Fucking hell these people have never played anything outside of fromsoftware, they just don't know how much better gameplay can be for these genres.
No offence but there were a lot of bad takes in this video.
The double slash into X from rhadan is 100% avoidable but its rly hard, you gotta backstep first slash (pressing roll without direction input) and then you can roll the next two attacks there is no rng or position requirement its just simply very difficult to do.
I think Theo is right about the readability of attacks, particularly the partical effects and timings not matching the attack animation.
I feel that he is a bit stubborn, rufusing to change tactics to suit the different fighting styles of bosses.
I don't feel like timing has been an issue for me, but visual effects have been for many bosses. Doesn't help the game has such a narrow FOV... and i know first hand that widening can help since it's possible to do it with mods on PC, it's a world of difference dealing with tall enemies with a wider FOV.
I agree with soooo much of what Theo says, and Elden Ring is one of my least favorite Souls Games purely because of how much faster and more "anime" the combat is.
But it is absolutely a matter of stubbornness. Elden Ring is not aa game suited to my preferences- I can still beat it and do well, but I prefer Dark 1, Bloodborne and Sekiro. I prefer positioning and timing, and some of these Elden Ring bosses are just map-wide AoEs and eye-searing amounts of particles and effects and...
I just like the simpler times.
@@lustrazor44 he says he spam rolls...how bout trying to time them instead??
No more dances, just a make the bosses fast and hit harder, give them dumb anime moves so now every boss is sister friede in her third form
The stupidest looking move in this game is probably Godfrey phase 4 where this shirtless no armor dude try to do a stomp in slow motion while player character just beat the shit out of him
"they need a boss that reaches into your bag and chugs your estus" Kingdom Hearts 3, bro. Check it out
@@Coaltergeist yozora truly is the peak of funny in the entire series.
If Theo didn't want to play Elden Ring to begin with, why did he play the DLC?
I hope Theo's Homelander speech will stay as a meme.
Anyone else remember when that one player beat dark souls 3 on a slice of pizza?
I can't wait to link this to my Elden Ring friends who hated the DLC with a burning fiery passion.
Can't wait for Theo's video, I neeeed someone to be even the slightest bit critical of this dlc lol
@@qing7902 So check literally ANYbody else. There's valid complaints but they are NOT what Theo is offering. Look up Only Waifu, Ratotoskr, Youwy, people that actually care about the game and won't just complain that it isn't Dark Souls AGAIN
@@qing7902 yesss. Like I don’t absolutely hate the DLC, there’s a lot of good in it, but it was a really awful experience on many occasions. High highs, low lows, and I’d love to hear someone talk about those lows
@@totallyofftaskwhich ones? I’m curious to other peoples experiences cause i have yet to hit a low
@@qing7902there’s a few videos out that are critical. They’ve gotten lots of hate and disagreements but I still liked them.
0:15:15
So... could the Erdtree's shadow defeat Unicron? Or IS it a vestige of Unicron himself?
I sorta feel as though they could have gotten away without the Scadu system. Anybody who's above level like 150 probably should be into a NG cycle. I havent checked yet but I'm genuinely dreading if the blessing resets each NG cycle bc i dont think anybody wants to spend the same amount of time on requisite exploration each playthru.
Its a shame because, numbers notwithstanding, I friggin love it.
They don’t. Scadu and Revered ash carry over to NG. So you’ll be Regular boss fights latter on
52:50 What's worse is that that's an attack deliberately repurposed from Renalla in the base game, who throws it at you. The fact that it hits the floor is deliberately supposed to catch you.
So your complaint, is that it looks similar to another attack from another boss.
@@tevenpowell8023 It's not necessarily a complaint? I'm building on the comment that there are many moves where you really can't reasonably guess how to react until after you've been hit with it.
My point was that it goes further than that, because not only is it unclear how to respond, it actively is trying to trick you into responding how you would to Rellana's Full Moon attack, which is waiting for it to reach you before dodging. This attack however slams the floor three times.
Take that as a bad thing if you want.
@@qing7902 "I know that's what I implied, but since you caught me saying something I don't want to be held accountable for saying, let me retwist my words around so that I'm not held to any actual standards. I am very smart and not cowardly at all!"
Wow, so wise.
@@sparxskywriter2589 I fucking hate arguing about elden ring with people
@@qing7902 So you don't even fucking try
I do want to see Mauler play Armored Core. Likely not his cup of tea, but all the same I think he'd have a good time of it. As for Theo, I left a long comment in the actual video so I wont copy paste it here, but just to say, I think he brings a valuable view to things, and while I won't agree to everything he said, I do feel many of his points, such as the camera or the ever zany boss animations, timing, and weights. I really do feel like the series wants to move past the current gameplay systems to something faster and more aggressive, similar to AC or Sekiro, but retaining the feel of the souls game, and its starting to tear at the seams a little as the two visions clash without the extreme leap they will need to make in order to achieve that, and they likely don't want to alienate portions of their audience in doing so. Not a great position to be in, but we shall see in the next iteration of the series.
Now if we could only get that Bloodborne remaster in the meanwhile....
Many of Theo's observations and criticisms are valid and completely fair. But the fact he has such venomous hatred for the game is why he gets push back and why his takes are unpopular.
And he himself is the reason why he doesn't enjoy the game. He is not willing to engage with it as it's own thing, he's trying to play it like FromSoft's past games.
@@Kanaleah As they mentioned in this session, that its more of him ranting rather than giving measured responses and breakdowns. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and will await to see his own video on things to see exactly where he stands, as the issues people may have with him here will be likely addressed and very well may be already something he has accounted for in his criticisms, but did not convey well here in his frustrations.
Heart vs the mind and all that. More than happy to let someone vent when they seek an outlet, and this stream more or less acted like that for him. Now if his video on this is more or less the same tone and the like, then you'll likely have your own answer methinks, until then, benefit of the doubt is the better path methinks. No need to assume the worst intentions or motivations, we all have our ways of conveyance.
@@Kanaleahthis is exactly on point. He gets so mad because everyone points out how mad he gets from the souls games that he just is toxic to the community and the game developers. Like to say that people who defend elden ring are brainwashed into liking it is a really stupid take.
Sekiro is not aggresive, is defensive. AC6 definitely aggresive and fast paced. Elden Ring falls in between both gameplay styles and you can lean into one or the other depending on how you play, which is why some people struggle with it.
@@EatThePath-7 Im not so sure I would call Sekiro Defensive, when the player is able to be as aggressive as most enemies with minor exception, unless you mean that engagements tend to be more of a planned affair, with planning the amount of enemies you engage at a time and the like.
I’d be curious to hear what kind of takes the cast has on Armored Core games. I’d argue they’re the lesser known FromSoft games, and I’m heavily biased towards them, but I’d love to hear that discussion as well.
I kinda agree with Theo but not so harsh. The enemies do feel a bit bullet-spongey, I also dont like the way they handled power scaling with collectibles. But I do see why they did it, to encourage exploration as opposed to just running through the bosses straight away
I feel like if you're really good at Elden Ring (someone like GinoMachino, for example) the fights become more interesting again, there are a lot of not very obvious openings that can be utilized with good positioning and surprising ways of dodging with jumps and even by crouching. It's pretty cool to watch someone that really knows what they're doing fight some of the harder bosses (some of this stuff seems to practically require using a claw grip (which I refuse to use) to play without lock-on for certain moves and remain in control of the camera). But I don't even know if this stuff is intended by From or if it just happens to work because the players are so dedicated in getting to know the bosses.
But for a relatively casual player such as me it does sometimes feel like I'm just waiting for my turn to (maybe) get one hit in. And the delayed and unclear attacks annoy me. And while I like the visuals of elden ring a lot, I find the open world sometimes a bit too empty. And I know this is cliché but I'm still waiting for the day (that won't come) when they make a world designed in a similar fashion as DS1. I've always been drawn to From games mostly by the world and the atmosphere and even the story (not much of a lore person, though).
I've only started the DLC so I can't comment specifically on if it's worse or better than the base game, my first criticism is that I don't particularly like how i have to look for the buff items throughout the world.
I've been enjoying it a lot BUT I play with mods to make it easier because I suck and don't feel like stressing myself out to get good for a few months. In short, I hit harder, I take less damage, I have a lot more stamina and I can turn status effects off. So that drastically changes my interactions.
That said, I played the base game with the same settings I started the DLC with and I immediately found myself dying a lot more vs the base game. Even now with many fragments, it's still clear to be a lot "harder".
I'm not saying anything about whether that's good or not, just sharing.
Man I would love to sit down with Theo and have a chat about Elden Ring.
I really want a stream of metal mauler and theo going through their criticisms of bloodborne and dark souls 3 they dont talk about these games enough
Biggest gripe I can throw against SotE is that it shares the issue of base Elden Ring where the endgame bosses have been scaled too high damage wise. I dont think its fun to have vit pumped to hard cap and still get two shot by damn near every major boss. I said it when ER dropped that those endgame bosses are about as hard as you can make bosses while still making them enjoyable to fight. Phase 2 of final boss strays past that into cheap territory imo. Aside from that i had a lot of fun with the DLC. Enjoyed the lore revelations, the new gear, and a bunch of the new bosses.
Try using physical defense.
(Dragoncrest great shield / Golden vow/ black flame protection / boiled prawn and then a heavy set of armour
I have 87% physical negation. And now Radhans has to do 2 full combos to kill me. (Which is like 12 hits)
You should already have that endgame vigor for the DLC though and you have the fragments in the DLC.
@@fastenedcarrot9570 I did and I got up to 18 blessing level. The bosses still do metric fucktons of damage in their long ass combos
@@fenris5932 what's your "defence /dmg megation" for Physical?
@MilkT0ast I beat the game dude, it's not worth examining how I could minmax out more defense. My criticism is that I don't like that EVERY boss has 2 to 1 shot levels of damage and long ass combo strings , any two of which can kill you and also have swing delays. I'm just saying that Fromsoft doesn't continuously need to escalate their difficulty for their own fanbase because I think difficulty has diminishing returns on overall fun with a game of you increase it past a point and Elden Ring endgame reaches that point
Given that Theo's a big DMC guy, his complaints are actually perfectly valid; Fromsoft experimented with new active (IE, reflex-based) combat mechanics in Sekiro and then basically reverted to the tried and true, sturdy but simple hack n' slash they've been refining since Demon Souls when Elden Ring came out.
Now to be clear, the distinction I'm drawing is that DMC combat has systems, hidden systems, intended mechanics, exploit mechanics, and a level of commensurate combat complexity that the moment-to-moment of Elden Ring doesn't match. What I'm not saying is that Elden Ring's combat is bad, or that they didn't add new systems; it's just that few of them have to do with the things other action titles have explored, like juggling, form-changing, weapon-switching for unique attacks (Bloodborne touched on this a little bit, one of its cooler decisions), or basing combat essentially all upon your ability to successfully craft combos (This is because DMC usually has sparse defensive options, so you're attacking, dodging by running manually away from attacks, jumping for i-frames, hitting the Royal Guard button, or you're dead). In other words, the pace of combat is slower and has less room for player innovation, which makes sense because Souls games also just don't have the tone of a high-speed 3D fighter game like Bayonetta or Vanquish or any other "spectacle fighter" game as Totalbiscuit called them (Vanquish is a fighting game, this is not a debate).
However, Souls games have much more *broadness* in their mechanics - your total number of functioning strategies is much larger, and the content covers more things than just the combat mechanics; this also means all valid strategies must be balanced against one another for replayability, at least by the standard of the dev's attempts to do so. DMC, Bayonetta, these are games where you walk through a level that's basically a hallway and literally see a "level end" screen once you finish them, because every encounter is a tightly curated experience.
So while I definitely see his point, I also do support the argument that it's not a matter of effort on either team's part, but rather design focus. You're not learning lore in DMC, you're usually not exploring hidden areas unless they're hidden combat trials, and generally a spectacle fighter has a smaller roster of enemies that each have unique attack patterns and traits, while in a Souls game most enemies are magical humanoids or animals that slash at you or fire magic from afar and have a relatively standardized set of attacks and reactions. This template allows for good-enough combat across a large open map with curated zones, but also accounts for the resource drain players experience when their "level" is basically the space between Bonfires and thus variable player-to-player, because not every player will stop at the first next rest zone that they see, and not every player will take a totally linear path through exploration.
Both types of game are good, this isn't a discussion of absolute value, it's just that both have explored other strengths in their game design owing to their history of development (DMC was a Resident Evil game that got reworked after they found cool potential for combat systems in an early build, Elden Ring is descended from dungeon exploration games that focused heavily upon finding items and gear to fight simpler enemies who will damage-check you unless you're prepared) and that's why they court narrower (DMC) and broader (Souls) audiences.
Now I'll hand Theo this as well; Elden Ring is in sort of an awkward place, because From clearly wants to achieve something closer to spectacle fighter combat but also wants a big open-world game, so they're building a huge amount of combat around a simple combat system. In other words, his complaint about the "roll and wait to hit them" combat being overtaxed by increasingly shorter timing windows is also apt; you can't go into Witch Time to land free damage on the Lion boss, you can't pop your Devil Trigger to unlock a new moveset that can stun-juggle Old Radahn for a certain amount of time, and so the player's "cheat ability" that improves their odds in Elden Ring is basically just summoning adds. Elden Ring has cool summons, but they do ultimately exist to just divide boss attention in two directions as opposed to letting you cope with the boss's abilities with your player character.
TL;DR - Miyazaki just wasn't brave enough to turn the Malenia fight into a GoW sex minigame and that says a lot about the games industry in 2024.
You had me at sex minigame.
I think these games, DMC and Elden Ring exist in parallel but different genre's to be honest. I don't think it's necessarily comparing apples to apples here. I don't think Elden Ring or any Fromsoft game has ever been similiar to a DMC game. I don't even know if I would say that Elden Ring/Soulsborn games are hack and slash. You aren't trying to build up a combo meter or use super abilities to chain attacks and juggle enemies around or doing fancy insane moves and having quick time events. It's a much more bare bones combat system true, but that is what Fromsoft has designed it to be on purpose. It's supposed to be somewhat methodical, based on timing your attacks to openings that the enemy either present or you create and balancing risk and reward for each attack, dodge, heal, and everything else. I think they are just in two different genre's and so is God of War for that matter. Lies of P, Lords of the Fallen, even side scrollers like Salt and sanctuary are more like Darksouls. I wouldn't like a Darksouls game to be more like DMC, it wouldn't be a Darksouls game then.
(edit)I probably misunderstood what you were getting at, and my comment might be more of a comment on what Theo had been saying and comparing the two games like he did, I don't know, but in general, I prefer DMC and Elden Ring/Dark Souls to remain seperate genre's of action games.
*cough* Nioh 2 *cough*
"Reverted to" Bro they've made two games since Sekiro and one was AC6. Elden Ring was a huge project stretching back from before Sekiro was started. The DLC isn't going to have a completely different combat system to the base game.
@@fastenedcarrot9570 Damn!!!!!!! Respond to the central conceit or I don't care, because you know that's not the core of my point. Nobody expected a new combat system for the DLC, it's stupid to assume I meant that in a post about Elden Ring as a whole. It's also pure waterbrain to assume that in a "huge project since before Sekiro came out" that nobody had resources or time to consider updating the combat like they did for - Sekiro - which you've already observed was a smaller project.
What's Theo's Channel name? I wanna see his piece on SOTET.
It's in the description on the section 'Featured CZcamsrs'
Is that Wolf on the closing part of the video? Good to hear his voice again... Great segment, everyone. Elden Ring is pretty much exactly as you described it.
Elden Ring is far from my favorite Fromsoft game but calling it Skyrim is crazy hyperbole.
Skyrim is way better.
@@shanecoyle8053 No lol.
@@that1guy375 Much like Skyrim I enjoyed Elden ring, but I can't help bit wonder why they retained all the bad design choices from previous games, while changing much of the good stuff. I can see the comparison like that.
It's so extreme that it's disqualifying. It's like when the Elden Ring gameplay trailer dropped and salty gamers said it looked like a PS3 game.
It's big and shallow just like Skyrim.
Never played any of the Souls games so im just enjoying the fire
My character is lvl 350 can’t wait to see how crazy it’ll be for me next month
says he has never had less fun playing a game.
Has he ever played fallout 76?
Sewerslide Squad? No mans sky? Gollum?
For those there was still entertainment value in making fun of how bad they are.
Meanwhile here it's just sad.
And the Souls like franchise is one he Cares about a lot so that may be a you ruined it kind of thing
76 can be fun if you have people to play it with, solo it's not worth it and just boring.
Gollum is funny in how busted it is.
No man's sky.... if it's release version I agree, if it's the new version then I'd be hesitant to agree but it'd have many asterisks and footnotes attached to anything I say about NMS.
Suicide Squad? yeah I could agree
I honestly can't take anyone seriously if they have this opinion. Is this his first From game? It sounds like the same critique ever From newcomer posts when they die one too many times.
@@phonepunk7888Not that I agree with that take, but if you watch this video you should know he’s played every souls game.
There are plenty of options to dodge other than the rolls, like jumping, blocking, and AoWs: the Sidestep and the Blood-Hound Step.
What highlights Theo's actual problem is that when frustrated of getting killed, he picked up the Noob-Spammer-9000, amplifying his damage instead of fixing his real issue: not being able to dodge attacks efficiently.
39:10 god slayer main here what helped me shred bosses was basically buffing with flame grant me strength, golden vow, flame/ oppaline tear with shard of Alexander and some good mitigation talismans and just ate bosses helth for dinner. Lvl 122 50 dex 27 Strength 30 faith. It's not even the best damage that you can get but for what I had it did me wonders i love the GodSlayer.... That being said trying to dodge with colossal greatswords is a pain but we knew that we signed up for that that's why we trade but trading is kind of hard and the DLC so what I suggest is trying to get more mitigation abilities, talismans your damage might suffer but you should be already doing pretty decent damage anyway at lvl 171 if you got the stats in the right place.
I agree with your criticism I think obviously things are on a scale. We don't want completely unreactive attacks that you either have to sit for countless amount of time to memorize or to cheese the AI in such a way that they do the attack that you want because that leads into less interesting gameplay. I'm not done with the DLC yet but I've gotten pretty far and I've done most things I'm a completionist and I'm trying to get everything. It's really weird to see people just say skill issue when there's a bigger overall conversation going on it's quite reductive.
And just so people can hear it in the back know just because people in a couple of months will be able to know hit the game does it mean the game was easy all along it just means there are people who sat there and took time and effort to cultivate a skill at knowing what attack there is or how to manipulate what RNG they want. There are people who can know hit run and speed run bad games that does not mean they are instantly good now these are not the same things and they are separate.
I miss being able to get in slap fights with bosses. It's my favorite way to play ds1 and is the only game you can reliably do that in. You and I are going to hit each other until one of us dies.
@@lolbuster01 you can do it in this game but to me it doesn't feel the same. I gotta go grab all these random talismans and tears and buff myself all the time to do it consistently. Why do all that when I can just get some heavy armor and a big sword and we can just go at it. Let's see who will last longer
@@themystikone that and poise casting from ds3. That's kinda it. No good old fashioned Tarkus style boss strategies.
I just beat the damn thig and overall, I really enjoyed it. That said there are 3 things I cannot defend. There are other things I personally did not find great but those are personal preferences like too many mobs having massively long combos for example.
1: The blessing fragments. On a 1st run, it was actually quite fun to be rewarded for exploring all the nooks and crannies but on repeat play, it will be a tedious chore of an easter egg hunt.
2: Abuse of VFX. Some bosses have WAY too much visual noise going on. At best it is needlessly distracting and at worst it makes it hard to see what the hell is even going on. Final boss is especially guilty of this.
3: Abuse of arena wide blast with no clear tells. Many bosses have these massive blast that cover the entire arena or at least a missive area. These often have long wind up times and no visual or audio cue for the player to react to. The only way to avoid them is to count the timing or run the hell out of there. Usually without a single quarter of a second to spare.
17:21 this fight can be better or worse depending on how you progressed the NPC quests. Depending on how thorough you were, it can be anywhere from a 2v2 to a 3v5
50:08 I really hope Fromsoftware creates a new boss Called "Theo Of The Erdtree" who amongst many other long bs attacks chains, has the ability to steal your heal elixirs when successfully grabbing you as an input-read heal punish.
For me, the glaring issues with the DLC is that a lot of cool areas feel barren, empty, with nothing to do other than embracing the atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, each section is beautifully crafted, it is like looking at an awesome painting, but it loses all meaning when there isn't anything keeping you occupied in said area. Second issue is the last boss for me, it ended up being the most unfun thing I've ever had to deal with on the entire DLC.
Oh god the amount of areas that amount to nothing but a small hole hidden behind 5 wooden planks and a single r1 spammer
The issue isn't whether the bosses are beatable in general, it's whether the bosses are reasonably beatable for average souls players. People need to start making the distinction between average players and hardcore players when discussing difficulty, because average players won't tolerate absurd difficulty just for the sake of it or difficulty at the expense of game balance and combat design.
ER and SotE bosses feel like Fromsoft are just reacting to and overcompensating for hardcore challenge runners. Fromsoft must NOT use the hardcore challenge runners as the metric to judge or escalate the baseline difficulty, and neither should the community. The hardcore challenge runners do not represent the majority of souls players and will get extremely good at any game no matter the quality or difficulty.
The baseline difficulty should be reasonable and challenging enough for an average player to beat. Extra difficulty should be offered through new game plus modes, boss selection and boss gauntlets. I'm surprised no one talks about ER and SotE not having boss selection.
Fromsoft must stop trying to one up themselves all the time and must stop trying to escalate the base difficulty to unplayable levels. Difficulty must not come before or at the expense of a games balance and mechanics.
Fromsoft must stick to their philosophy, but keep the average player in mind in terms of difficulty. Most people aren't interested in impossible difficulty, they just want a fair challenge, engaging combat and a cool world to explore. Extra difficulty is only considered by people who already like the game.
The combat in ER and SotE is too poorly balanced for me to take seriously. If Fromsoft want to make these challenging games then they must commit to the difficulty and not give the player items, weapons, spells and skills that will trivialize and break the games balance. That's basically creating an easy mode at the expense of game balance. Everything the player is given should be tuned appropriately for the games set difficulty. That's just not the case in ER and SotE. Ideally nothing should be too weak or too strong.
The issues with the open world stem from its size. A game shouldn't be larger than the content it can offer, otherwise it wil feel repetitive and empty. I'd rather Fromsoftware split their larger games into multiple DLC's or just make smaller games of a size they can handle. ER and SotE would be so much better if they were smaller with the filler removed.
I played the dlc soul level 1and there are only 2 bad bosses if you have problems just use a fast roll
sound advice there fucboi
It was pretty apparent the Fromsoft saw the game was too easy, as people streamed multiple no hit runs and dance mat controllers, and said we need to make them cry.
Heck I saw someone, not 2 days after the dlc came out, beat the final boss with no armor and just a club.
Ironpineapple went into the dlc at level 1.
Maybe if Miyazaki wants to make it hard he should actually play his own games
@@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese I think it recently came out in an article that he played Elden Ring himself and said he is actually bad at it. Or hasn't been able to beat it.
51:34 you can roll them all if youre far enough away, and its simple to bait out. Nowhere near as difficult as that.
1:18:29 DamkSchmolls lore in a nutshell.
You love a good Theo rant
It's beyond silly that people keep pretending like Theo's criticism of the game is just him standing still waiting to get hit. Or that he's just endlessly spamming the dodge rather than trying to time it. Or that summons is a default playstyle that everyone should use rather than a secondary mechanic that he specifically pointed out breaks the game, making it too easy for him.
He's made it clear multiple times that his critique is that the bosses delay and aim their moves in deceptive, nonsensical ways too often for his liking. That the bosses are designed to bait you into dodging too early before hitting you while your unable to respond. That the delays are designed to be impossible to gauge when they'll drop without just getting hit by them enough times to memorize the number of seconds they hold for.
I don't even play Elden Ring, but the simple fact that you guys so consistently strawman Theo and anyone who agrees with his arguments like this leads me to think that Theo is correct. Especially when he and others have repeatedly explained that these strawmen are, in fact, not their arguments. You guys just don't seem to have an argument against his actual points.
Seriously. There's definitely stuff to love about the game, but elitists will crawl out of the woodwork if you say anything slightly negative. They act like everyone thinks and plays exactly like they did to enjoy the game when it offers a vast world, many weapons, spells and ways to level stats for many players to build the way they want. Funny part is, they act exactly like the elitists they think they're "owning." I don't understand this idea of not discussing with people the flaws of something they love.
You're not allowed to have that opinion
@@austin0_bandit05 "He has an opinion on Elden Ring. He's given up his right to kneecaps."
I must agree. (My enjoyment being sidelined in that respect). I acknowledge the issues with many of the games, but still enjoy the hell out of this franchise.
Although I personally have no problem and actually enjoy the big anime spectacles...I hate how deceptive the combos are, and how they straight up lie and fuck with physics. Also fuck tanky enemies that tanky for the sake of being tanky and wasting your time, also fuck enemies that never let you breath.
Anyways I hope you all have yourselves a wonderful day.
Knowing Theo's thoughts on the base game, it isn't surprising lmao. Like he said, it's Elden Ring turned up a notch
Speaking for myself, I had a lot of fun with this dlc. It was not the smoothest gameplay experience, but it felt great getting through this new addition to the game.
Did my first playthrough of it on a NG+ character and then recently with another base game character. Most of the critiques put out here weren't surprising for me to hear since I've listened to their Elden Ring episode of EFAP.
I understand a lot of the criticisms of this dlc, but it is still hard to hear Elden Ring get compared to McDonalds. If Theo wants to avoid the next Fromsoft game, then that's probably a good call for him.
If there was something positive for me to take away from this conversation, it would be that Sekiro is a very good game so I should probably try that one out.
After reading alot of these comments I can't help but feel a lot of these people disagreeing with Theo are not grasping the points he's trying to make. He's understandably frustrated after getting so many poor responses from people who don't seem to be listening. I am eager to watch his video on the DLC.
He is regurgitating the same critiques unskilled players throw at all the From games. I've seen the exact same arguments used against Dark Souls 1. Nothing he says is new or accurate, he is coasting on contrarianism.
I eagerly await theo’s video on the subject
PLEASE wolf, do more Theo highlights
56:52 same. Morgott is my favorite
If this is Theo's 'worst experience playing any game' I don't think he knows what a genuinely bad game is.
That's not to say I don't disagree with some of his criticisms, there are some legitimately awful experiences and bosses in the DLC, but I cannot agree with his overall hatred of Elden Ring when I probably share the same vitriol for Dark Souls 1.
I could have better experiences with worse games because it would affect me less. I don't make it a habit to play bad games, but I know for a fact I've played games worse than Elden Ring. Doesn't change the fact that this is the least enjoyable gaming experience I can recall. That's the operative thing here, it's my worst *experience* with a game, not the worst *game* I've ever played.
It's a good thing FromSoft has a great art direction going for their titles. It's easier to forgive game design decisions and conflicting ethos when you're enamoured with the setting.
It isnt buckling under the weight of bad design, constant glitches, and in-game advertising like a lot of games these days.
@@cdubsb3831 For sure
I would say going into a game I expected to enjoy only to not is a way worse experience than going into a bad game knowing you could likely not enjoy it.
I'm sure Theo wanted to like ER or the DLC when they dropped but ended up not. I'm in the same boat for my own reasons.
Judging by his complaints does Theo like souls games anymore?
maybe, fromsoft really need to fix the game design from Elden Ring, just for start wtf is a stagger system without a stagger bar, and why summons and crafted items so strong?
@@naruroGCStheres never been a stagar bar. Clearly you havent played a souls game in your life LMAO.
@@naruroGCS Every game can be improved and he has plenty of valid arguments like tracking is never fun especially when its just guys doing 360s because its lazy af, but a good portion of them were things in almost every other souls game I can think of like bosses baiting you to react and even big dumb anime attacks
I also vaguely remember the discussion on the base game years ago and his complaints where mostly the similar so of naturally you wouldn't like more of the same turned to 11 or 12 in his case. I might also be wrong but someone also said that they didn't like that the genre itself was getting popular and if that was him then of course Elden Ring 2: Electric Boogaloo never had a chance to be even remotely enjoyable and playing it would be a chore.
@@theredknight9314You can't read. He's saying there should be.
@@Alkalion69 why would they implement something that stupid? You dont need know when the enemy will stagger.
Theo is part of the problem when it comes to the Souls community's lack of meaningful discussion.
When you get this heated and angry it doesn't matter how correct you are because you've driven away the people who actually want to hear you out.
I agree with him on most points but God Damn does he make me wish I didn't.
Thats a fair point. Its the converse of the "git gud" mob. But to be fair he says his actual critique will be more level headed
So.... if we're just waiting for our turn to attack....
Does this mean it's just turn based combat?
That's the kind of argument I could see Theo unironically try to make.
as annoying as the scaling for Shadow is i felt REALLY accomplished beating Rellana with my dual greatswords (moonlight and a lightning ash sword) i was gettin so into it i even stopped jump spamming and it felt cinematic weaving through her swings. i am playing the game in a more roleplay-esk fashion though so one-on-ones against people whom the available NPCs dont have a thematic connection to will be fought solo with no ashs, chunky monsters get no such courtesy
lol somone in chat said " 'brute force' = play the game as intended" ....
not that the games can't have a different play style/meta, but it doesn't mean that just becuase it's new/different that it's good or enjoyable.
like mauler said, the majority of players (casual and hardcore) is a combinaiton of rolling a favorable moveset from the boss and ganking with a +10 mimic/'insert broken summon here'
Neither Mauler, you, nor anyone else can accurately say what the "majority of players" do because no one sees them do it lmao
Unlock more often. The bosses will lose track of you.
Locking on too often is a trap.
Who's gameplay was showing?
The first Elden Ring Stream was Theo sh*ting on the game for 4 hours then everyone giving the game a 7 or 8 out of 10 except him.
He dominates the conversation and is boring on this topic.
if braindead praise is what you want, you are on the wrong channel
Nope, he was actually clear and interesting in his points unlike fromtards, who can't ever be honest.
This is just not true, everyone talked about the game in leanght, yes, Theo was very dominant, but Mauler, Metal and others all put there's own points and opinions into the mix. In this case it is more true, because it is more Theo and Co., but it was not even a realy Elden Ring DLC stream anyway with it's dedicated roundtable.
Theo is one of the only people I've seen online criticize this game so thoroughly. Definitely not boring by my standards.
@@uneterostardust8233 Yeah. We're here for smart criticism like "It's just like Skyrim. Also the only viable way to avoid damage is to roll around." You might wanna consider the idea that there is such a thing as braindead criticism as well.