A non-binary warrior in medieval Scandinavia?
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2022
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The modern re-analysis of a grave found in Finland over 50 years ago is challenging the traditional beliefs about gender roles in medieval Scandinavia. It reveals insights into how non-binary people could have been valued and respected members of their communities. -Medievalists.
A medieval grave in Finland that was thought to hold the body of a female warrior or ruler has revealed a surprise - the person buried there may be non-binary.
An archaeologist excavated the 900-year-old grave in 1968, finding inside the remains of an individual wearing oval brooches on top of woolen textiles - a style of dress that is "a typical feminine costume of the era," a team of researchers wrote in a paper published online July 15 in the European Journal of Archaeology. A sword was found on the left side of the individual, and another sword, likely deposited sometime after the person was buried, was buried above the burial.
"Since then, the grave has been interpreted as evidence of powerful women, even female warriors and leaders in early medieval Finland," the researchers wrote. However, new DNA tests have revealed that the person is anatomically male and had Klinefelter syndrome, a condition in which a male has an extra X chromosome. Each cell normally holds a pair of sex chromosomes - XX for female and XY for male - that determines a person's sex. A person with Klinefelter syndrome has cells with XXY chromosomes, according to the Mayo Clinic. This condition can cause breast enlargement, infertility and a small phallus. After finding this genetic surprise, the researchers said it's possible that the person may have identified as non-binary, they wrote in the study.
The fact that the person was buried with swords and jewelry suggests that people in their community accepted this identification and did not treat them as an outcast, the research team wrote.
"It has been suggested that, in the ultramasculine environment of early medieval Scandinavia, men with feminine social roles and men dressing in feminine clothes were disrespected and considered shameful," the researchers wrote, noting that the new finding casts doubt on this idea.
Because swords and jewelry cost a sizable amount of money, this person likely came from a wealthy and possibly influential family, the research team wrote.
"The individual could have been a respected member of a community because of their physical and psychological differences from the other members of that community; but it is also possible that the individual was accepted as a non-binary person because they already had a distinctive or secured position in the community for other reasons; for example, by belonging to a relatively wealthy and well-connected family," the researchers wrote.
Another possibility is that the person was a shaman or magic user. Surviving texts from the time suggest that some shamans and magic users were men who wore women's clothes because the Norse god Odin "was associated with feminine magic," the research team wrote. - Live Science.
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@@marcot4863 Yes, There Are More Than Two Genders!
talesoftimesforgotten.com/2021/03/16/yes-there-are-more-than-two-genders/#more-6205
Looking At Non-Binary Gender in the Greek and Roman World
eidolon.pub/the-body-in-question-d28045d23714?gi=b38bbdfe45b7
Sexing the World: Grammatical Gender and Biological Sex in Ancient Rome
assets.press.princeton.edu/chapters/i10377.pdf
@@marcot4863 I am unsubbing too. I can’t support a channel promoting mental disabilities.
Right I'm immediately unsubscribing from this horseshit
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Literally don't give a s*** how many genders there are. I've never wondered about the sex life of people in the past and I'm never going to. I'm somewhat offended that you thought this was an academic topic or something that would be of broad interest to people. Don't we have a right to go through our lives without hearing about other people's sex lives and experiences? I mean, I did take the opportunity to not listen to it, but beyond that, I mean do you really think this is a proper topic? Just to be clear I don't
Making the mistake of reading the past through the lens of the present. The one thing we can say for sure is that the person would not have seen him or herself as non binary.
A very fascinating video. I do wonder however if the ascription "non-binary" is applicable in this case or even be potentially anachronistic. The term, almost unavoidably, awakens modern notions of gender identity in which those who typically identify as non-binary view themselves as NEITHER male nor female. In this case it appears the person was buried with material markers of both genders, which perhaps would not indicate non-binarism but instead some kind of hybridity. The detection of abnormal chromosomal makeup (Klinefelter syndrom) indicates that however the gender ascription of the individual is understood, it was likely due to biological abnormalities. While rare, such abnormalities are nonetheless "natural" and it is fascinating to explore how cultures have historically dealt with such issues. As this video indicates, a definitive answer has not been reached. As always it is hard not to impute contemporary notions and debates about gender into historical analyses. But those who believe that historical societies did not also gear attention to matters of sex and gender have no sense of history, and are merely projecting their own notions onto the past.
Non-binary is simply anything other than male or female, including but not limited to, neither female nor male, and both.
Mainly directed towards the content creator, and this is meant as a genuine question rather than as an antagonistic or hostile comment: Is the definition of gender in the modern day basically in reference towards the cultural and personal expression based upon but not equated to sex-associated identities?
He is a part of the alphabet mafia that preys on children.
Yes, this is how it is largely understood to be meant within the field. Gender being the socialized aspects and expectations, often but not always influenced by sex expression (Male or Female genitalia). Gender throughout history does not always conform to modern mainstream expectations or duality.
@@kylewilliams8114 This is true. It is sometimes worth pointing out things that are very abnormal, but in general it's not interesting though. I've heard a great deal about the Romans and how they were culturally speaking and it does dive into this area but it's never been particularly interesting to me.
@@kylewilliams8114 thank you👍
@@deadend1041 appreciate the honesty, not every subject in history is interesting to everyone. I find gender history of passing interest myself and I don't seek it out. It's just frustrating seeing some people try to claim that we're projecting onto the past, even though the reality on the ground is that this person's role in society wasn't part of the usual two gender dichotomy. Maybe the high status of the person allowed them the freedom to do whatever they wanted. Maybe there was a concept like the dual spirit's in some traditional American societies. Who knows, but it's a question worth asking and debating for interested parties.
We need fuzzy sets even to categorize medieval warriors now
Could be that she was a great warrior enough that her community and her peers as a warrior. Nothing to do with gender identity
this has absolutely no factual basis...
You’re going to pretend they did not find the grave ?
@@seanfaherty 🙏
@@seanfaherty no I am going to understand they speculated all this and inferred something that didnt actually exist... they are telling a story for someone who can't tell their own
@@justinbayola Welcome to archaeology.
The cult must insert its dogma everywhere.
Huttula? Same place as the ancient church
Someone w/this syndrome tends to have broader hips. Is that the case w/this person? Also were they taller than average people of the period? Readings also indicate they tend to be weaker so this person would have signs on the bones where muscles attach?
In history didn't societies tend to force folks into 1 bucket or the other? Do have any data from remote tribes in the Amazon Rainforest, that island w/the people living at the Stone Age level of tech or African tribes to indicate how uncivilized (less advanced? village dwelling? I'm concerned "uncivilized" might be considered insulting.)/primitive/hunter-gatherers behave regarding traditional gender roles to help us paint a picture?
2 genders: male and woman. always been the same and it was like before the modern era and it was like that up until the years 2010.
therefor any interpretation of gender specific roles or decorations that people wear is only bias by our own vision of our modern society.
gender specific roles come from natural common sense in nature. women are not as strong as man and are more important than men therefor they are culturally not the ones chosen first for fighting against a threat or an enemy.
some woman dressed like man and some man probably dressed like woman but in those days the clothes you were wearing did not change the fact that you gender is physical and not psychological and woman dressed as warriors were not considered man and they did not consider themselves man because of the clothes they were wearing.
clothing is based on fashion and woman use to not wear pants and when they started doing it no one started as seeing them as man and they did not want to be called man either they just wanted to wear a piece of fabric that covered their legs
Don’t care
@@Leah-vr7di than why did you read and reply?
Good video, thanks! As a Finn, I welcome occasional content on the Nordics.
While nobody knows for sure, I suspect that we are looking at a non-binary individual, much respected in his/her/their society. The terms here are modern of course, so let me dive deeper.
In the ancient Finnish/Finnic mythology and worldview the world is full of different väki-forces and -powers. Some of these forces are very special, and limited in their expression and occurance when it comes to their locale, associated beings etc. Some väki-forces on the other hand are elemental, like väki of water (veen väki), väki of fire (tulen väki), väki of ground (mannun väki), väki of air (ilman väki) and so forth.
The female väki (emon väki) and male väki (uroon väki) are also included in the catogory of elemental forces. What is perhaps significant for our discussion here, is that in the traditional folk belief of Finnic tribes, we don't see "pure" ecpressions of only one väki-force or the other anywhere in the world... Instead, nature (with humans included) exhibit an endless variety of mixtures of different väki-forces. These are often situational, and at times more permanent for various reasons. To put it simply, female and male väki-forces can co-exist in any one thing or being, and they can do it in an unlimited number of ways.
Thanks to this flexible and dynamic view of natural and social realities, I suspect that the Iron Age Finns had plenty of room for more than two gender identities. We don't know what these non-binary folks were called back then, but they were there.
Good example of this positive ambiguity is how in one of our sacred runic songs, the goddess of the forest called Annikki, has a beard.
Where does it describe Annikki having a beard ?
All through nature there is only male or female. There is no such thing as nonbinary. A manly woman with facial hair that loves women, isn't non binary, or a mixture of male and female, she's a butch lesbian that has facial hair. My God you nut jobs really reaching. Notice they say a woman with two swords, because they can tell a male from female bones. No one ever found bones and said, yes this is a gender fluid non binary individual.🤯
Done
Sounds more like an exception rather than a rule, imo. These kinds of genetic disorders are quite uncommon and the populations back then were low to the point where I don't really imagine generalized cultural responses to someone with such characteristics in most communities, or it really implying fundamentally different gender norms. I'd imagine it as more tied to individual agency than anything else, although that doesn't make it any less interesting.
This agenda a ridden speculation is an attempt to garner attention and approval by the author and is incredibly disrespectful to this ancient woman who had two swords buried with her. Although it could be assumed that she was a warrior or a leader or the items were precious to her for some other reason you cannot possibly speculate on how she defined herself or lived her life.
This is low brow intellectually impotent nonsense typical of the academia of today. The cardinal rules of historical writing are to do so without an agenda, to use only known facts and not to speculate. Never posit theories or imply something that has no basis in truth without proof. A thesis must be based on provable evidence not romantic speculation, an agenda or attention seeking by the author who has no scruples or cares for actual history and is in fact pushing an agenda. Archaeology has too long been the preserve of over active imaginations where speculation replaces facts and rather than admit they don't know archaeologists "interpret" what ever they find in an attempt to make themselves look clever and sucker in an unwitting public. This is disgraceful.
So, what exactly are you attacking?? The Klinefelter Syndrome DNA? Let me ask you this very important question: _HAVE YOU READ THE STUDY OUTLINING THE PROCEDURES AND HISTORICAL LINKS???_ If you haven’t, then your comments represent nothing more but a series of overly emotional knee jerk statements. If you have, then cite the parts you don’t agree with in your comment and back up your opinions with the research supporting your views....if you don’t have anything that I’m suggesting, _THEN YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING, EITHER!!_ I heard no hard-and-fast decision in this video....I heard a distillation of the different points of view, with information about other archaeological finds documenting Klinefelter DNA, and evidence of a Native American subculture, along with the other _speculative_ assumptions. After all, DNA _is_ DNA. Spitting out various kinds of angry epithets and denigrating the people you don’t agree with isn’t the way to get people to listen to you. And just so you know, I’m here to listen and learn.....I could NOT care less about who wins any argument, and I felt this was a very fair recitation of the facts (what was found in the grave) and the various opinions about those facts. And now, how the DNA fact impacts on the various opinions.
This actually reminds me of the historian who carries the banner for blaming the European syphilis infestation on the indigenous Americans, carried by Columbus’ sailors....he has scoffed at any research suggesting that the opposite is, in fact, the truth. This eejit kept screaming, “Show me the DNA!!! If you show me DNA, I’ll believe it, but until then, I AM RIGHT!!!” Well, I’m sure you guessed what happened! An English archaeologist found the evidence and showed it to the eejit, who (VERY predictably), said very loudly that he didn’t believe her evidence, thereby exposing his absolute fraudulent status as a historian and making a fool of himself, too! And since then further evidence has come to light elsewhere in Europe, most notably the skeletons of young children who died in Pompeii. My point is, scream all you like, call names, whatever....just realize that you’re damning your own position when you do, bc the truth does tend to come to light. Closed minds learn NOTHING.
Klinefelter syndrome. It was a male.
So, basically, this is business as usual for archaeology. Makes me wonder why you felt it necessary to make such a long comment. You could have just said, "as usual."
8:23 XD
Why the non-binary classification?(edit: I was corrected below, it's not a statement it's a possibility)
Wouldn't the person be someone with Klinefelter Syndrome who identified* as a woman?
*and was recognized by her community, as seen by the way she was buried.
The title has a question mark, not a period. It's interesting that the warrior had both male and female aspects to it, so it's possible that the warrior was a member of a third gender, which isn't binary. Hence nonbinary. But we won't really know for sure but given how common third genders were in preindustrial societies it's not that far off.
@@ig-8887 First, you are correct in pointing out my mistake, it was not a classification, it raised a possibility. At this point I apologize.
Regarding pre-industrial societies' view of gender and the acceptance of non-binary people, the study itself put the fact as rare.(edited for clarity)
Particularly I don't know the Finnish culture to have an opinion.
My doubt is precisely why it suggests that there would be male and female aspects at the funeral. Just because of the weapons?
Other tombs in the region were found with (biological) women with weapons.
It's really funny that this video already has more comment then a normal one for this channel when it still has less then 1000 views
I wish it meant the viewers were open minded but some comments I’ve read have me doubting not only openness but intelligence too
@@angryatheist open minded, doesn't mean that any bull 💩 should be accepted.
This is critical thinking garbage!
I bet yall think the pyramids were made by aliens then hahaha
Very interesting and well written.
'Ongoing, fierce debate' is the key here. I'm sure our modern take on this will one day be challenged by some future view or insight. The video highlights aspects of our modern interpretation of gender, sure, but it's also important to see that various societies interpret gender roles differently, as the video states. Even a casual understanding of historical interpretation makes identifying the authors intent or degree of interpretation / speculation clear enough. I wish more of these 'outlier' examples were fleshed out to strengthen the speculative argument, but I think it's worth noting that such examples do exist and buck trends and conventional understanding.
"chromosomal sex is different from gender" yes because we made a up a distinction that previously exist, but we hadn't done it yet back then. Baring some kind of time traveling gender studies scholars i find it very doubtful that anyone identified as "non binary".
Odd the need to add a disclaimer insert at the beginning explaining the difference between sex and "gender identity"
It seems, from the information presented, this was a chromosomally male person, who probably developed a more typical female phenotype and became a warrior. It doesn't seem strange the culture would view and treat this person as a woman, and it doesn't seem like "non-binary" would be a likely label... Perhaps the swords are due to a mostly female but still slightly ambiguous phenotype.
agreed, it is odd that it should be necessary to explain that a persons sense of identity isn't dictated by the biology of their body - although body and mind are inseperable, this simplification just clearly isn't representative! but of course, many people still grow up believing that gender indentity and biological sex are simply the same thing, and any example of the contrary is some sort of disorder or illness. even if modern science, medicine, psychology etc have moved on.
This video should have premiered on April 1st, it's two weeks late.
Is that your birthday?
@@AurmazlZudeh
@@joemachine4714 That went right over your head.
@@lizardog
Word!!!
Norden and Finland, NOT Scandinavia. Sweden has officially denied that Finland could be called Scandinavian country in geopilitical sense in Nordic seminars.
Women warriors have distinguished themselves all throughout history. We've all heard of the warrior queens and that would strongly imply, that they were known as women. The title "Queen" is one that has only been given to women. It would seem to be the most likely explanation that this was a woman of high rank that was honoured as a warrior. There no reason to assume that the people of the time assigned her a new and third gender.
That she was beyond the binary of genders would be more likely the fervent hope of those with an agenda but you can't hope things into reality. The most likely answer is usually correct and that would be a woman that had fought with the men, as a leader, and was being honoured as a warrior. It's pointless to wish that it was anything else.
Just a point of reference. "Queen"
is a modern word, not an historical one. You are doing the vary thing you are ascribing to the authors.
@@torfinnzempel6123
"Queens" were mentioned in the Bible, and it's at least 2000 years old. Queens were also a part of ancient Greek mythology. Sounds rather historic to me. "Queen" is a word that we use to describe a ruling female monarch. They may have a different word for it, just like English and Polish have different words to describe the same thing, but the meaning is the same.
@@JackHaveman52 love how armchair historians can use the Bible to disprove a non binary theory
@@AurmazlZudeh
Are you talking about me? One doesn't have to be an historian to know that the Bible is nearly 2000 years old. Besides, I also referenced Greek mythology, which is even older than the Bible and also references female monarchs (queens). That means that the idea of a woman, who was also a warrior, wasn't unknown to the ancients....for example, Penthesilea, who was Queen of the Amazons. Queen Boudica, a Celtic ruler, led armies against the Romans.
These are all easily verifiable facts.
@@krystal7958 why bro? I'm cis!
They were a merit based society.
Ah yes, dynastic royalty is a society full of meritocracy.
@@kylewilliams8114 Ah, yes, you know nothing of our history.
@@KISEwun ok buddy. Keep watching Vikings on the "History" channel and thinking it's real
@@kylewilliams8114 well since kings were elected by a moot at this time, not hereditary, yeah, it was the definition of a meritocracy (at least at the time, not by our modern standards)
@@eyzmin a council of aristocracy picking who gets to be top aristocrat. This in no way suggests kings were chosen on merit. That's not a unique setup in the middle ages, nor is it consistent with a meritocracy. I suppose the Roman Empire was meritocratic since the senate "voted" on the Emperor.
Not only does it not equate to a meritocracy in comparison to contemporary kingdoms in Europe, but it takes for granted the idea that if a king is elected, ergo every position in the society was flexible and meritocratic. This says a lot more about the ruling class than it does about the society beneath them. Serfs were serfs, upward mobility (a key factor in any meritocracy) didn't exist for 99% of the population. Nice try.
for those without the extension installed its 180 likes to 171 dislikes
How do I get it lol?
@@Fuhrerious_Biceps its an extention to your browser, works for like google and fire fox. Called "Return CZcams Dislike
by Dmitry Selivanov & Community "
She was a female warrior Valkyrie. Hence a woman.... There is a great documentary about this amongst similar tombs in Norway.
So Tolerant
Absolutely stunning and brave.
Then everyone clapped
They didn't even get the sarcasm of your comment and 'loved' it! For such is the blinding power of self-virtue....
@@julesknight1511 No s*** I'm not listening to this c*** not now, not ever. But the cellphone of loving that comment is hilarious.
@@julesknight1511 im pretty sure he knows im a troll and just Harts me for shame or to thank me for views and activitie on his channel lol i mean in the end thats what matters amarite fellow capitalists
Nonbinary? Not y'all too? Sheesh.
So a man buried in a dress with weapons fits the definition and expectation of men in 11th century Scandinavia. Bold take.
Deeper insight than other videos on this that have seemed more clickbait-y. Well done.
Wtf is nonbinary?
Modern day gender bullshite.
Someone who doesn’t fall in the binary gender spectrum. It’s been around forever just not written about in history books much
@@Gayoinion because there's only 2 genders. everything else is bs or mental issues
@@tayalt2406 thanks all knowing one I’m glad you’ve got all the answers
@@Gayoinion some people have replied before you, then i've made my research. I could only find stuff about it on weiordo websites with woke people.
Interesting. Thanks for this.
She was a woman and a chieftain, wich was not between those barbarians.
I have battled transgender since I was very little still do I live with what GOD built me as but it feels like another soul is screaming to get out of my body that is not male sometimes I win sometimes it wins I just wish I could understand why I feel the way I do and if I could change it I would ,I've been ridiculed abandoned beat down by society so I stay away from people . I have nothing to prove to anyone but I think people would be a lot better off if they would just tend to their own business and be kinder to others.
As a trans person of faith: G-d loves you no matter what. He has also created your soul as it is, as a gift, not as a burden and a horror. Dysphoria is hell, but the Lord wants you happy. Perhaps He really wants you to be your real self. Perhaps this is not a test of faith, but a gift-realizing your true self and becoming it is the greatest one I've ever received. My body is my own as well as belonging to the Lord, and I know He is pleased with me as somebody who is free and happy and able to do good unto others because I am finally free of the pain of a gender that wasn't mine.
I wish you luck, love and safety. Things are hard for us rn, and if you need to remain safe then do so-but please, do not imagine G-d is an obstacle here. He is not. It is cruel people who are. G-d has created you as you are because you are inherently worthy of love.
@@elilass8410 truth I used to get the crap beat out of me for trying to be who I wanted to be so I've had to hide it .
@@jadams736 hugs. i'm so sorry, it's so hard. these people are the hateful ones, they are those who do wrong in the eyes of the Lord. I hope one day you can move to a safe place, in a community that will love and welcome you as you are. stay safe and hold on, and know that it is never too late, even if it takes years. and that you are never alone.
@@elilass8410 yeah I have found my peace with GOD I just battle it one day at a time I just get tired of people hating others that have never dealt with gender issues .
Thank you for this terrific history. This kind of evidence would not be presented or even considered by Victorian-style academic bias which persists with some. Like the case of Thomasine Hall, this would have remained erased history without evidence-based presentations like this. Great work!
I expect the comments section to be aflame soon. However I don't think it's controversial to say that some people in history defied gender expectations of their time. But people need to understand that these anomalous or culturally acceptable forms do not equate to modern conceptions of non binary and gender identity based concepts we have today. They are unique and their lives must be taken as such rather than typified unless there is sufficient numbers as such to see it as part of a significant part of that culture and time period.
By being the most effeminate man in all of 19th Century Scotland (indeed, possibly the entire planet); JL's great-great-great Grandfather, Séamus Macdonald, defied gender expectations of they/them's time.
@@rickrudd honestly the thought amuses rather than offends me.
@@rickrudd Though you must tell, why did you choose Scotland of all places?
@@JL-ti3us I appreciate the words of encouragement. It was a very thoughtful (yet juvenile) troll job.
I try to be as considerate as possible while baselessly libeling one's ancestors.
@@rickrudd only right way to do it. Its refreshing honestly, most don't even try to be witty and humorous about it.
What has disturbed me in those old news about the remains of the deceased has been the talk in Finnish media that the deceased was well aware of their nonbinary nature / identity and karyotype, which is unbelievable because the deceased lived in 13th or 14th century Finland, and here at that time it was not even known what a chromosome was or even binarity. And when it comes to Finnish ancient tombs in general, all the ancient tombs that have been opened have contained jewelry and therefore it is not at all strange, especially when it is believed that jewelry brings luck and protects from evil.
Next video "Scotland was founded on tribes of non binary warriors in skirts" 😏
🤭
Stop it. Just. Stop. It.
Stop what Carol?
@@AurmazlZudeh stop with the unscientific newage fuckery. There are only two sexes, and those are male and female. There are straight biological males and females, there are gay biological males and females, there are gay biological males and females who have body dismorphia issues , some of those biological males and females with body dismorphia might want to cut their private parts and identify as a potato for all they like. Just know that we know that they are not potatoes, and don't expect us to accept this unscientific newage fuckery.
@Vercingetorix damn you fell deep into the rabbithole.
This might be a shocker: there have been cultures that interpret gender differently than we do today. There’s tons of evidence for that.
So please be civil and let people live.
@Vercingetorix you need help.
@Vercingetorix I don’t do any of that. You’re imagining an enemy in your Head.
This is a scientific update about a study that someone did. This someone actually studied this topic and has a PhD in archeology.
Also nobody is teaching 4 yo about sex. And strippers in kindergarten maybe happened once somewhere and Ben Shapiro told you to get angry about it for the rest of your life.
All those things have one thing in common. They have nothing to do with the video. Stop trying to force science to confirm your narrow beliefs.
It’s ironic that you ask for self awareness while you are the person who tries to stop someone from putting out updates about scientific studies.
please spare me.
That's it, I'm getting cremated. I don't want some weirdos digging me up in a thousand years and declaring that I was a trans-purple demi-squirrel.
Unsubscribing. If you believe THIS , i have a pyramid made by aliens to sell you.
Revisionist history?
Did you watch the video?
bufoonery
All history is revisionist history.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 in other words, you're ok with distorting history to push your agenda. And this is one of the most disgusting things any historian worth their salt wouldn't dare to say.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 "All history is revisionist history, therefore let's make everything conform to current year fashionable ideology."
Any update on how Nick is doing?
Hey, thanks for asking! I am in a transitional facility with a focus on physical therapy. I have a long road ahead of me but we are moving forward as best as we can.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Hope your recovery runs smoothly Nick, to say you have been through alot seems a gross understatement, I just hope you can take the time you need to get better and emerge out healthy on the other side.
@@JL-ti3us I really appreciate your support and kindness, thank you history friend.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 much love nick hope you heal up!!! bless
lmfao
pandering.
No
Oh Jesus!!!!!! Not you too?!?!?!?!
Rofl he's been like this you should of known like 2 years ago with the Black Athena garbage and inviting genders studies professors as the history experts 😂
no such thing has non binary
Ya skipping this one
But still left a fart
@@seanpoore2428 i wish i could but my stomach doesn't work like that anymore
Probably they were women and gay men that were too good with the sword to mess with, so they left them alone and even honored them after death
For crying out loud!
A Woman with a Sword? - Weapon Grave at Suontaka Vesitorninmäki, Finland.
We are NOT saying that the individual was a hermaphrodite, homosexual, or even intersex. We are saying that sex ≠ gender. Regardless of anatomical appearance, this person (just as anyone else living at any time) could have identified themself anywhere in the gender spectrum. - Dr. Ulla Moilanen
In 1968, a weapon grave with brooches was found at Suontaka Vesitorninmäki, Hattula, Finland. Since then, the grave has been interpreted as evidence of powerful women, even female warriors and leaders in early medieval Finland. Others have denied the possibility of a woman buried with a sword and tried to explain it as a double burial. We present the first modern analysis of the grave, including an examination of its context, a soil sample analysis for microremains, and an aDNA analysis. Based on these analyses, we suggest a new interpretation: the Suontaka grave possibly belonged to an individual with sex-chromosomal aneuploidy XXY. The overall context of the grave indicates that it was a respected person whose gender identity may well have been non-binary.
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-journal-of-archaeology/article/woman-with-a-sword-weapon-grave-at-suontaka-vesitorninmaki-finland/33A89DB1D7E4900F017833D87C997D3D
Lol
The progressive liberals of the 21st century, who obviously made this video, are denying women their share in history in favour of the woke agenda of transgenderism. Now whenever historical evidence for women are found who were active in traditional male dominated roles, the progressive wokes immediately turns it into a thesis in favour of transgenderism. So history's warrior women, female soliders or even female adventurers are all interpreted today as non women. 🤦🏻♂️
50 years ago, liberals were fighting for women's rights. Now women's history is being rewritten with the help of the very same people.
How long till you preaching the non binary ai robot forward slash hibby zombies 5th does need a blood transfusion from u not consider human BC of RNA have more right than me born in the image the image now that could be god but I don't wanna blow minds here
gender/sex mean penis or vagina.. cmon now its a woman.. how you identify is different and can be acceptable.we can't change facts.. nothing wrong with gay or transgender people that's totally natural.. but this is like saying you fond a man with long hair and a brush he must be intersex/metrosexual... I really liked your page but between this and saying aryans weren't caucasian that came to India.. I mean look at their art, look at afghans own stories on cannabis and how it traveled some germany>Siberia>china, to afghan, to India.. both afgahns and Indian have this tale, look at the original depictions of shiva or afgans "baba ku".. we are all 1 human race that is very interbred and there isn't any sort of supremacy clearly just different cultural expectations.. but peoples sensitivities shouldn't re write history.. the nazis knew some of this, but used it for evil and filled in a lot of lies, rather then saying yup were all one big mixed family and even caucasians weren't always caucasians so yup lets end racism...
Damn now I gotta unsubscribe, this is quite obviously a modern ideological view on a long gone culture. Later ✌🏻
Excellent video on the subject! I am glad that history, archaeology and science are working together to help shed light on people who are difficult to see in the record. Truly a fascinating outcome to this puzzling burial!
Grasping at straws and finding needles in haystacks now?
“She” was a warrior. Period.
372 likes and 387 dislikes for you folks without the extension
And?
@@lizardog 448 likes to 477 dislikes now your agenda will always fail
475 likes to 579 dislikes currently.
503 likes to 663 dislikes
@@MrThebarron007 UPDATE
Kiss&Tell that's what the Falling angel mean you fell from the Arctic to North Africa around the
Equator . Frosty the snowman what you doing in the desert?
Oh I'm getting wicked , here have a disease !
Thank you guys for taking an even headed and factual approach to this topic. The comments section is as divided and idiotic as always during discussions like these, but I'm glad it's at least starting off at a good place thanks to you and your hard work
Way to lavish praise on a child predator.
Agreed!
A very academic and level-headed take on a surprisingly complex topic, well done! Ignore the hate, I'm willing to bet none of them have ever read an academic article
Is that the qualification for having an iota of intelligence?
Please stop with this idiocy.
Read your comment and take it to heart ❤️ matey
Are you really jumping on the trans wagon now? I’m willing to bet SHE was a respected high status woman with a swarthy complexion who was a warrior.
I'm willing to bet you were not there, or a historian.
Yikes.
Just a respected warrior princess. With a penis.
Interesting video. Thank you.
🤡
You people are totally insane you know?
Having a HUGE problem with the continuous doubting, and inferred references to some weird (imagined) patriarchal overplay here, all the while ignoring her very importance to the utmost. Yes...the hilt could well have rotted away, more plausible still, it may well have been robbed off for reuse...as well, it could be personal ..she may have been one heck of a queen, and although granted her station as sent into the afterlife, relieved of any further ability to slash that sword (,cowards!!). I applaud your choice of topic, but shudder and cringe at your refusals.
Thanks!
It has nothing to do with wokeness. People were same throughout history and capable, intelligent and affluent persons made their mark on those around them as they do now. Their sexual orientation is even less important in a pagan society so they were able to lead their lives with all the privileges they were afforded by rank.
I hope you realize sexual deviancy was the most taboo and stigmatized offense in Norse culture. It was far less tolerant in ancient times and honestly they notion any society promoted or celibtated such is foolish.
"it has nothing to do with wokeness" and then you continue with the most woke nonsense I've heard in a long time 😂
Will you please elaborate? You disagree with the assertion that a a member of the elite has more leeway in how he chooses to live?
@@konst80hum Norse were not open about much, sure we weren't like the Christians but we were not lgbt friendly, and would not follow a leader that clearly was one.
Back then we followed a leader because he was a real leader, a feminine man would not be followed until much later in history 14-1500s, with the wigs, makeup and huge castle's
Vikings valued ability, physical prowess, bravery and ruthlessness. Non of which are gender specific. Would you tell to the 120kgs 6ft tall, bedecked in very expensive armor, warlord that you disagree with his sexual orientation after he's done sacking a couple monasteries, raped the monks and has showered you with gold?? Don't mix effeminate with homosexual, historically the two were very different things.
El-Choctaw-lord-de-AztlanMexicoCalifas ANTZ Holywater i Cali Mexifornia Mexicali Chicano Mexicano Mexican Amerru contentante Azteca empiro
Good for him/her or whatever non binary means
Firstly, try to use 'them' instead of 'him/her', as it's more inclusive for people who aren't comfortable with being called either 'he' nor 'she'
Firstly. Shut your mouth taly.
Anyone who has read Herodotus knows that female warriors did exist.
Agreed. It's disgusting how much apologetics twisting and corkscrewing the authors of this piece do to avoid simply saying that they likely have a warrior who identified as female in that grave.
Big time...
I also know from Herodotus that there existed headless people who had eyes on their chests
And in the end they find out that he was of Ukrainian origin. Is this science? Stupidity after stupidity.
Very well done!!! I’d love to see you explore similar topics in ancient China and India! They also had multiple genders that weren’t strictly binary. India’s culture of it continues into modern day quite openly.
They could not have more than male or female
So your saying there was a lot of mental illness around the world, no shit. Only Male and female, sorry delusions isn't a gender.
Nice job at revisionist history
rEvIsIoNiSt HiStOrY = History that I don't like because it goes against my wingnut political positions.
What a shame people can't be open to ideas and different ways of living. Our ancestors lived, worked, loved, played, and died just as we all do. Some were born differently, just like some of us are. Those that are so fervent in their 'it must be this way or it must be that way' skip over the important part. When this individual was alive, they most likely lived in a village with other people. When this person died, those people honored them, and clearly held them in high regard. Nature herself has shown through different species a gender fluidity, even swapping genders to help in reproduction. Why should this bother anyone? No one is telling YOU to change your gender. No one is telling YOU that this is a regular occurrence. It happens. Gender and all of the tropes that follow either or are just that, cultural tropes of expected behaviors by gender. It's a shame people get really bent out of shape about something that in truth doesn't affect/effect their daily lives. Educational and interesting video. Well done.
Well if you are against misogyny, cannibalism, or polygamy due to cultural reasons and pretend that you’re a cultural relativist, that’s pretty hypocritical
Altering and changing history to promote one's ideology and biases does impact our lives. For example here in the US there are millions of children who were raised believing only blacks were enslaved in the USA. Slavary mainly effected the poor and predominantly Scots an Irish blacks were a minority of slaves. At one point there was a movement to spend all back to africa the USA even created Liberia to do so.
So yes this is a serious issue as historical revisionism is outrageous.
@@tylerrobbins8311 this isn't revisionism it's viewing a person in history who doesn't fit one gender or the other specifically due to cultural stereotypes. This is sharing just one example out of millions of burials. There is nothing revisionist about this, however it's your anger and false comparisons that have nothing to do with this. Get help seek meds meditate or go pound sand. Your weird anger isn't warranted.
@@GwenWittig No it is straight revision as there is nothing to suggest how this person lived at all. Even suggestions that she was a warrior are assumptions (it is possible but the examination to prove it has yet to be done in this example).
If you want to argue such nonsense we do have examples you could use such as Charles d'Eon. Given even then you could argue it has more to so with being a spy.
If you're going to argue this political nonsense then it least have good arguments. I even have you an example you could argue with.
@@tylerrobbins8311 why is it those who say 'you're being political' are in fact being 'political'. I guess I don't get why people get offended by things that have nothing to do with any part of your life now. As far as revisionist, I don't see this as revisionist since it's only a presentation of what was found in a grave and why it wasn't 'usual' for the times. The only one making this 'political' is you.
Queer people have been around since the beginning of time and aren’t going anywhere get used to it
Stop putting people in your weird little boxes.
She was just a hermaphrodite that clearly wasn't looked down upon, even back then.
So stop crying all the time!
Push the agenda
Based on the title alone my finger is moving perilously close to the unsubscribe button. We'll see what's up with the content of the video
God give me strength.. 🤣
Ridiculing others while asking the imaginary Sky Daddy for help 🤣
Pretty sure they meant the strength to get through these comments oi vey
@@seanpoore2428 because you people deserve the ridicule. You laugh at the idea of God, but genders not existing, that’s definitely something intelligent to say 😂😂
@@seanpoore2428 That's why homosexuality is so disrespected 👀
?! Please explain
This is getting out of hand now. 🤦🏻♂️ What's wrong with you people?
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 How many genders are there my friend?
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Just a question: how is gender defined these days? The expected role a culture imposes on you based on your sex combined with self determination of gender role these days?
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 How many genders are there? You said there are more than two, so please tell us how many.
@@JL-ti3us It's not complicated... penis = male, vagina = female. Truth doesn't change just because people want it to.
@@CochinKerala hey it's just up to us to teached our kids nowadays modern era confirms this then become self sufficient as communitys this man be kick from the station if he don't conform ..alot of info going around CZcamsrs saying they changing there ways or speaking to lawerys at moment think new laws coming in more non human agendas
Woke history now ?
"a woman can be anyone and nothing determines if they are or not"
same woke professor
"she has a sword, then she's a he or at least a shim" 😂 🤣
Unsubbed !
I will join the unsub-club
I respect you guys. Please, don’t push liberalism and say this is proof of transgenderism being normal
Two definitions of liberalism:
willingness to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; openness to new ideas.
A political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
Now do explain how liberalism is bad……
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 fallacy of equivocation. I’m aware of the classical liberalism from the enlightenment compared to the modern view of it being SJW diversity garbage. Don’t try the linguistics game, that doesn’t change my point
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 damn you were cucked from the beginning
They never claim it to be normal. They make the case that there is crossdressing of dead people and this is a case of a genetic type having a high status and being respected after death. There are also female warrior burials. Clearly they had other views on the topic than the average modern Chinese. Maybe he/she was a priest or holy person touched by both aspects of divinity. It for sure wasn't beholden to the idiotic political views of US citizens on this topic.
@@chubbymoth5810 what are you talking about?
Pls don’t be misguided by the flood of intolerant people.
Many are screeching „unsubscribed“ while not realizing how childish that is. Their categoric disregard about this topic shows that their interest in history and archeology isn’t genuine.
I need a jacket. The snowflakes are pouring in! 😆
Thanks for discussing this burial. It fascinates me!
Yes, because defending human nature against a political agenda really is being a snowflake. I wouldn’t be surprised if you think children should see gay couples or gay parents
@@darklord7069 educate yourself, meet new people, get cultured my friend. No need for anger or worry, just enjoy your life
@@AurmazlZudeh definitely cutting your balls is being cultured. You people really are a new form of psychopaths for defending this. Man, humanity is lost
@@darklord7069 Why would it matter if children can see gay couples or parents? Being gay is genetic, which is scientifically proven.
You don’t turn gay because you ate too many grapefruits.
So then why can’t children see gay couples and parents?
@@darklord7069 yes, because gay parents exist, and so do gay children. I work with kids and I'm gay, and the kids are fine. So are my straight parents.
In the face of so much sexist backlash from contemporaries, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for covering history, and not just retelling the most popular stories. I've always been interested on where our culture comes from, what we are indeed made of. As a non-binary Danish person, these findings help me feel a lot more connected with the people who could have been my ancestors. My shared history. We need these stories to be told, or they will be erased and buried again and again. In a time when it seems many would like the entire queer population to be completely alienated, I know I am never alone because we were always here. Even after burials our existence will not be erased.
@@idontcare2851 do you know what you're talking about? Confusing comment
Narratives. You’re all getting caught in your emotions, preconceptions, and therefore personal narratives. This isn’t a case of self gender identification as a result personal preference it’s a case of dna fuckery that in both its genetic grit and physical materialization can be certainly interpreted as somehow a “gender” that has clear non conformity to either. Yes, anatomically there is just male and female the rest are (at best) cultural inventions but do we simply close our eyes and cover our ears when a female fetus is saturated in androgens and born with a schlong. Here we have a case where almost universally this person could have been interpreted as not being a normal male, in a time period that we’ve accustomed to expecting the rejection of such individuals. And yet it’s clear by the nature of this grave that the people of this specific cultural group still respected this warrior for merit beyond his non conventional nature. And the stuff in their grave contains stuff from both genders. So whatever this person thought of themself, whatever the people who buried them thought clearly wasn’t as black and white as shown in their other graves etc etc. That’s all that is too it. Just examine the facts for what they are. This isn’t some anachronistic tendril of modern lunacy infecting your beloved field of science, nor is it an indication that gender fluidity was such a societal norm at a time that preference perspective is all it really took, therefore legitimizing some of the stupidity happening today. This discovery suggest hmmm maybe the Fins had somehow warped their understanding of what males and females are in the presence of this figure, maybe there already existed an idea that these people exist or that there isn’t a hard line but a blurred one in their eyes between male and female maybe even because of others with this disease or similar ailments, but the fact that this all happens to align with the modern notion of sexuality “what ifs” when we thought those concepts revolutionary and inherently “modern” should not prompt you to draw lines between both and go well fuck this because it’s just modern snow flake blah blah. It’s being short sighted.
The fact you said its not black and white means you agree that it isn't a strict binary aka non-binary.
@UCx5w63RfOLL1iA7vkEguoyQ so historical precedents have no bearing on the conversations of whether gender non-conformity is a uniquely modern phenomenon and a disgusting aberration or not? It's not at all relevant to the narrative, that tradition always means two strict genders and that people such as this didn't exist?
This entire video is about how the burial defied the Modern understanding of how people were viewed a thousand years ago in Scandinavia. Asking these questions is an attempt to better understand the culture.
@@kylewilliams8114 ok, fair enough
You got be kidding me. This site has become a laughing stock.
So another strong woman categorised as non binary, why can't they just be strong women from history. I'm a great fan of this channel, btw who's actually running it at this moment? Because I like actual facts not gender BS.
Nick is the one replying to comments.
@@JL-ti3us nope, whoever is commenting isnt Nick - he was never contentious and snarky
@@julesknight1511 go look for my comment asking how nick was doing, the person who replied to it said they were nick and that they were in a recovery facility undergoing physical therapy.
@@JL-ti3us It might have been, however I've known him for years and he's always been civil and never argumentative, in fact he was curious and would ask questions of those who disagreed with him, and he did not push ideology over history. Whoever replied to me was not Nick, not only because they didn't recognize me but just the things they said and the way they said it I can tell you it's not him
@@julesknight1511 maybe you are right, can't really know for certain though.
Push the agenda! 🤡
Thought I'd come back to say that gender doesn't equate to biological sex guys.
Fascinating topic, and a great way of showing that gender has never been as cut and dry as some would like us to believe. Thanks for the history lesson!
Theres always been a lot of cultural fluidity of the world when people had to adapt to new circumstances. Eg from 1880-1920 in South Africa in the Witwatersrand Gold Rush around Johannesburg, there were so few women that African men often took newer African male migrants as wives and they took on female gender roles.
@@JL-ti3us that doesn’t change how that isn’t normal nor is it acceptable. Cannibalism and polygamy are done by different cultures, so what’s your point?
@@JL-ti3us interesting, I was unaware of that. Thanks for the information!
@@darklord7069 Normal and acceptable according to what cultural understanding? I am not an cultural relativist absolutist, but I do believe, at least to a certain extent, that cultural relativism does exist to be respected. I can still criticise cultural practices, but the way I see it, if you take a view which prioritizes freedom and individuality, how could one condemn historical people from finding their own avenues towards expression. Doubly, it is anachronistic to assume that all cultures held gender divides so strictly, besides I defining gender along the cultural lines usually expected along male; female or intersex expectations within cultures, not as a biological phenomenon, so there isn't a scientific gripe there. Intersex people were given separate categories both among certain Native American cultures and in India and were given religious significance. And Kings and Generals described the life of female conquistadors recently, one of which was a lesbian who dressed as a man and took a male name granted by the Spainish crown.
@@JL-ti3us it’s still practiced among Polynesian and Indian cultures. Since you admit for there to be certain cultural restrictions, why is it that it’s wrong for men to marry different women and also women having to stay home in Islamic cultures if you think everything is just cultural? Your very comment about how this is wrong to judge others for not accepting transgenderism is assuming that your perspective of morality is correct. A variety of cultures doesn’t mean morality is subjective or certain customs are okay. What Native American cultures? You guys love to mention us as if everyone in the Americas had femboys. The Aztecs would burn alive people for homosexuality, so taking a few tribes like the zapotecs who did have that “two spirit” view of gender and say all of us were like that is like saying Africans are the same for being black. Finally, I haven’t watched kings and generals video about the women conquistadors in full, but that wouldn’t even matter because there are moments when certain people are tolerated if it means success for the empire. The same way the Spanish crown raised taxation on the subjects of Castile without their consent despite it being illegal under medieval Spanish law for the monarch
With infamous warriors like ivar the boneless, I’m not surprised there was non binary warriors too we already knew Viking women were integral it stand to reason any capable willing warriors would have not only been welcome but desired
I will watch this when I have time, but if this ends up being some woke spin on history, consider me unsubscribed. We cannot take these new age modern concepts that have only been relevant in the last 5-10 years and suddenly believe that our ancient ancestors thought like this 1000+ years ago. Just like we can't look back on them and believe they knew what racism was. This gender identity stuff (~72 official genders in 2022) and skin color divisions did not exist among my Germanic tribal Heathen ancestors. I was once woke before it was called woke, but am very AWAKE to The Agenda and all the BS going on that's destroying Western Civilization today. Even using their term Non-binary is just more of "The Message" (being shoved down our throats) as Critical Drinker puts it on his hilarious youtube channel. I refuse to use their ridiculous terms like: person of color, BIPOC, LGBT123ABC, white privilege, white guilt, white fragility, so on and so forth. Awake. Never woke.
When I use these terms, I always use quotations, particularly when talking about “social justice” scholarship.
I think you should just watch the video before going on a rant. You may find that indeed it questions how people a thousand years ago would have recognised modern concepts of gender considering the archaeological record. Are you sure you're not just in a confused slumber?
@@chubbymoth5810 then do you agree with the ancients doing sacrifices, incest, cannibalism, and misogyny? Those were also a thing back then. Sure seems you like to be a cultural relativist unless it suits your beliefs
@@darklord7069 you high wtf?
@@hexapodc.1973 asking a rhetorical question. Such a great rebuttal
Let's understand a man is a man by xy (x from the mother's mother & y from the father's father) chromosome and a woman is a woman by xx (x from the mother's mother & x from the father's mother) chromosome
Anything else is a disease and against nature
dis·ease
/dəˈzēz/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
"bacterial meningitis is a rare disease"
Let alone The Way.
Without such mixes you would have stayed single celled. Well okay,.. could be true in your case.
Dont tell this fucker about intersex people lol
Unsubbed.
History and Archaeology isn't for everyone.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 like a Boss
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 it obviously isn't for you either. Way to play yourself.
@@justarandomname420 obviously we should all listen to TROGDOR420 😐👍 sounds edumicated
@@seanpoore2428 yes, I won't lie to your face and feed you poisonous rhetoric.
How utterly stupid to apply modern woke ideology & terminology to antiquity with little to NO evidence for the sake of clickbait. Trying to rewrite history to suit your opinion. This is gross.
How dare you label a "person" as a "woman" when you have no idea what it identified as!!!
This is sexest I heard that women was the mascot of the force back in the day ;) the bodicaa the Mercia women of the day..dam dont teach whity came from gibbons ffs might explain why our culture always one man one woman we do not need chimp harems always been the center for woman's right Vikings brothonic Brits Viking example when head house hold die man women was allowed the vote an rights of that house going all the way back an Nordic most anicent an Greeks germs base the anicent god's from them
They don't. The person had gifts associated with both male and female contemporaries and seems to have had Klinefelters syndrome. Obviously it wasn't an impediment to reach a high status.