Theodora's Greek: Civilization V. How is her pronunciation?
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- The Civilization game series has some characters that speak in ancient languages. How is the reconstructed pronunciation? Let's discover that together!
N.B. Sorry that the background music was too loud! I'll get it right next time. Thanks for watching!
#latin #civilization #theodora
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Music during the intro and credits: Overture to The Magic Flute by Mozart.
00:00 Intro
00:58 How is the Greek?
05:40 Middle Voice
07:12 Comparison with Italian
12:04 Love Story of Justinian & Theodora
12:19 papera
12:30 Justinian convinces Justin to change the law
13:29 Nika Riots
13:55 Theodora takes charge
Sorry that the background music was too loud! I'll get it right next time. Thanks for watching!
It's not that loud, brother, and I love Orthodox chants.
It's not loud enough, Hail Orthodoxy
Είναι ωραία η βυζαντινή μουσική, όμως όπως λέει και η ελληνική παροιμία: Το πολύ το Κύριε ελέησον το βαριέται και ο παπάς 🙂
No, no. It isn’t loud enough. Still, I could identify an excerpt from Παρακλητικός Κανών στην Υπεραγία Θεοτόκο. A question, Luke: Are the orthodox byzantine hymns in the background chanted by the orthodox monks from Vatopedi Monastery, Mount Athos and by the nuns from Ormilia Monastery? Where did you get that soundtrack?
And yes, you are Luke the magnificent magister and this is Polymathy, Greek is amazing and that music is stupendous. Greeting from Claudiopolis.
Hi Luke. No isn't loud. Thanks a lot for awesome video.
It’s nice seeing people appreciate Eastern Rome and not only classical Greece.
It’s actually my favorite part about Greek civilization
@@polyMATHY_Luke Me too. I wish more Greeks would get in touch with our Roman side. Unfortunately those who helped liberate us from the Ottomans in the 19th century, the same ones who razed the Roman Empire of New Rome to the ground, made it clear to us that they wanted Greeks with no attachment to the Roman tradition, since they claim to be the true successors of Rome. Which is nonsense. It's the same reason why the term Byzantine Empire is alive and well today, as its purpose serves to disguise the fact that Roman society and institutions survived after Rome itself fell. The brainwashing goes pretty deep. Some of us though have broken the chain, explored what "Byzantium" was and have come to the conclusion, that we are Romans. Long live the Empire.
Φίλε, είμαστε σαφώς Έλληνες αλλά οι πρόγονοί μας υπήρξαν και Ρωμαίοι. Είμαστε Ρωμέλληνες, δηλαδή Ελληνορωμαίοι. Κατιόντες γε της (αρχαίας) Ελλάδος και της Ρώμης. Ζήτω η Βασιλεία των Ρωμαίων
It is one of my favourite parts as well!
@@user-qz4go8pf8l
Μπράβο που τα λές όπως είναι. Αναρωτιέμαι όμως, που είδες τον όρο Ρωμέλληνες; Είναι εξαιρετικά σπάνιος. Τον έχω δεί να αναφέρεται στον "Πανηγυρικό εις Μανουήλ και Ιωάννη τους Παλαιολόγους", όπου χαρακτηριστικά γράφει: "το ομοίων ηρμόσθη τω ομοίω, και προστέθη, και γέγονε γενοίν εξ αμφοίν τοιν επισήμοιν γένος εν το επισημοτατον τε και κάλλιστον, ους και εις τις Ρωμέλληνας ειποί, καλώς αν είποι".
Luke has a very soothing voice, but not like Bob Ross, more like a villain.
Like this? czcams.com/video/H0c1QNWH1H8/video.html
@@polyMATHY_Luke this is so great!
There are no pronunciation or grammar mistakes Luke, only happy accidents 🐿
"I will teach you, for my own benefit, a lesson."
Lial Rovinov
Just a minor note: "Βασιλεία" was very rarely if ever used during the Medieval period. The most commonly used female version of "Βασιλεύς" was "Βασίλισσα" which is exactly how you'd say it in modern Greek as well. However, even that is somewhat inaccurate. The term actually used (officially, colloquially etc) in almost every occasion was "Αυγούστα", a direct adaption of the Latin Augusta. If one checks the mosaic of John Komnenos in Hagia Sophia where he appears with Mary and Jesus as well as his wife, the full inscription above the Empress writes "Η Ευσεβεστάτη Αυγούστα Ειρήνη" (=the most august "Augusta" Irene). And for the sake of completion, above John's head writes "Ο εν Χριστώ τω Θεώ πιστός Βασιλεύς και Αυτοκράτωρ Ρωμαίων Ιωάννης Κομνηνός ο Πορφυρογέννητος" (=the believer in Christ the God, Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans John Komnenos born in Porphyra).
You are quite right. Thanks!
@Basileus Rhomaion - (@3:23) is there attestation for an alternate (paroxytone) pronunciation of “queen” (βασίλειᾰ) that has a clear association with the individual ruler herself; and not with her "office" or “kingdom” (βασιλείᾱ)?
@@choreologychannel not who you asked but im greek and i can tell there isnt. Those 2 words still sound the same, but as op said, βασίλειᾰ was and still is practically never used to refer to a queen. You just say βασιλισσα.
@@Simonsavvi Thanks. My question is regarding the paroxytone form (βασιλείᾱ) in particular. LSJ cites a number of examples of the proparoxytone form (βασίλειᾰ):
queen, princess,
Od.4.770
ἦ μάλα δὴ γάμον ἄμμι πολυμνήστη βασίλεια
A.Ag.84 (lyr.)
βασίλεια Κλυταιμήστρα
Hdt.1.11, etc.
ἐώθεε γὰρ καὶ πρόσθε, ὅκως ἡ βασίλεια καλέοι, φοιτᾶν.
of goddesses,
Emp.128.3
“Κύπρις βασίλεια”
cf. Hymn.Is.I, etc.;
Ar.Pax974
ὦ σεμνοτάτη βασίλεια θεὰ
A.Pers.623 (lyr.)
βασίλεια γύναι, πρέσβος Πέρσαις,
E.El.988 (lyr.)
βασίλεια γύναι χθονὸς Ἀργείας,
@@choreologychannel None that I'm aware of. Note that the feminine form "Βασίλισσα" was the preferred one ever since the Hellenistic period which was the period of major boost to both the prestige and usage of the title. Before Alexander, a "Basileus" was an extremely archaic chieftain-type monarchical title that most Greeks found unfashionable and/or uncouth. The PR boost the title got because of Alexander and his successors was the reason it stuck, and by extension its various epithets, feminine form and other associations found later in history can be traced back to said period.
Greek is such a beautiful language
The most🇬🇷in my opinion
Not as beautiful as you 😍
and half of Greeks , we cant speak /write it properly
@@chockito13 this is no Greece, just Macedon and Macedonia 🇲🇰
That's really nice that people like our language 🥰🥰🥰 !!! Thank you!!!
I just love the background music (Orthodox Church). Plus, I also am a fan of Greek language. Salutări din România!
Well, on the contrary - I find the background music distracting and unnecessary. It's good music and deserves to listened to in its own right. As does Luke's monologue.
Yeah, I think the music was too loud. I try to listen to it on multiple devices but got it wrong. Thanks for the feedback.
Are Romanians the Latin byzantines?
@@polyMATHY_Luke nah let the music play it sounds like a mix from dark souls and opera
@@Michael_the_Drunkard no, we're an admixture of Roman settlers, Getto-Dacian peoples of the time and other migratory peoples that came through the ages and got absorbed into our ethnos, like the Cumans for example
There might have been Eastern Roman refugees that settled here after the fall of the Empire, but we don't have much proof of that beyond some dynastic families that reached into modernity
They probably gave her a script to read and she run with it, without objecting too much that it was wrong at parts :)
Native greek speakers would have picked up on those errors immediately because those are also the same mistakes in modern Greek.
Perhaps she knew it was supposed to be an old form of the language, so she didn't object to those errors thinking it was different back then.
@@piteoswaldo maybe she just didn't care enough and just wanted the money
Not necessarily. The ''φίλτατος'' mistake is easy to catch as a greek but the ''Τούτο δυσχερής'' mistake is more subtle and if you did not pay much attention in ancient greek lectures in school you would easily miss it.
@@roherian7203 In modern Greek we say "Τούτο είναι δυσχερές" not "Τούτο είναι δυσχερής"
@@roherian7203 these are wrong in modern Greek too. It’s δυσχερές and φίλτατε.
These videos are like honey and Greek yogurt for the ears
You only know if you've tried it!
It's all fun and games until you get to consume it while between two boats
@@bogdannarancic5763 Sounds sexual
@@omarabe26 Trust me, it is not.
@@bogdannarancic5763 Good
The voice actress has such a beautiful voice and intonation, it just makes for an experience so authentic-sounding. May also have to do with the fact I am a complete sucker for Greek, both modern and ancient. Must be because I'm Italian.. my heart forever belongs to Rome but Zeus damn if Hellas doesn't hold a close second place!!
that is the inverse with us.... yes we are Greeks but we don't forget also the fact that we are the last Romans.
Una faccia una razza
The most painful for me to hear was the "Filtatos" instead of "Filtate" T_T
Oh yes 🤦
Ironically this is a really common mistake for people who are now learning Greek.
As a fellow native user of vocatives, I understand your pain, φίλτατοι😂
Also δυσχερής instead of δυσχερές, which is also a transformation modern Greek would do too (like φίλτατε)
3:40 which is why in civ 6 Basil II refers his empire as "Rome"
More accurately "Ρωμανία" ("Romania") as in land of the Romans which distinguishes it from the city (Ρώμη = Rome).
@@rhomaioscomrade not to be confused with the country of Romania, being related to and from the latin imperial time of Eastern Rome post Fourth Crusade
@@mikeakersa8566 Makes total sense!
Roman Empire, HRE, Spain, Ottomans, Byzantines and Russians all calling themselves Romans.
@@hazelich9113 why Spain?
Theodora's story made my jaw drop!
I love when your videos not only covers linguistics, but also teaches the historical context in a deeper manner...
Love from Brazil!
She's probably among my favorite monarchs.
"The Royal Purple is the noblest shroud"
She's definitely a badass.
Me, a humble barbarian: I'm just here for the sexy words I don't understand. The lady ain't bad either.
@Parapa TheRapper he means barbarian as in the ancient greek 'βαρβαρος' which means 'stranger' or non greek
IF YOU FIND THEM SO SEXY TRY TO LEARN THEM I STILL HAVE HEADACHES BY MY OWN LANGUAGE
@@CaptAngryEyes the word βάρβαρος is used to describe people with no manners that are still stupid I would say and have old ways, like if someone torture someone to death we would say τι βάρβαρος τρόπος να πεθάνεις which means what a cruel way to die
@Parapa TheRapper well yes but savage is used different from βάρβαρος, βάρβαρος can also be read as cruel or cruelty someone that hasn't manners and is cruel and an idiot
@Parapa TheRapper THE THING YOU JUST SENT SAYS THAT BARBARIAN CAN BE TRANSLATED AS CRUEL YOU STUPID
Obviously, the one woman who is speaking is Greek or she's an incredible learner. The pronunciation of her is modern-like Greek and the modern Greek are looking a lot like the Byzantine Greek, so this could be a huge conversation(we are using many forms in Greek language. Not everyone is speaking the language the same way, like the Byzantine times)
*Roman times. ας το λέμε σωστά εμείς τουλάχιστον
@@xunqianbaidu6917
To call the Medieval Roman Empire as Byzantine Empire, just because New Rome was built atop the Megarean Byzantium, is the same to call the Ancient Roman Empire as Pallantine Empire, just because Old Rome was built atop of the Arcadian Pallantium.
@@xunqianbaidu6917
I am pointing out how absurb a name the "Byzantine Empire" is.
@@xunqianbaidu6917
Well, I do. I call them Iran and Iranian Empire, and specifice them as Achaemenid/ Parthian/ Sassanian Iranians. And it is right, since they called themselves Ērān.
There are situations where unfortunately this cannot really be helped, like the Hittites who called themselves as Nesians (Nesili) or Hattians (Hatti), and the Egyptians who called themselves as Kemets (Km.t). However here people would not understand what we refer to, while people know of Medieval Rome and the Iranian Empire.
@@kanenasithaki4669 φίλε, δε θα με μάθεις τώρα με τυπικότητες. Ιστορικός είμαι και αγαπώ ιδιαίτερα τη Ρωμανία. Η έρευνά μου σχετίζεται κυρίως με το Βυζάντιο. Byzantine, Roman or Greek it's not an issue if you read enough to understand that for this period it's pretty much the same, with different etymology and meaning, only if you use these words for a purpose. But if you call someone Roman, Greek, Hellen or Byzantine, in Constantinople, after 11th century, he would understand that you're talking to him. Before 11th-12th centuries the meanings of the terms were a lot different, but today, we should not make it an issue
Greetings from Greece!!! My mother's name is Theodora and my father's Konstantinos. I always call them "my king" and "my queen" because those names reflect the glory of the Great Byzantine Empire. What a great video. I am astonished with your knowledge and the level of your education. Keep it up. Can't w8 for more vids like this.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ!
Well, Theodora was Cypriot, from Famagusta, it would have been interesting if they employed a Cypriot-Greek actress to narrate the Greek part with the distinct Cypriot pronunciation and all that. Great video Luke, as always
The Cypriot dialect hadn’t taken form by then. Koine Greek would be the variety used in Cyprus at the time. It is also debatable whether she’s actually Cypriot, some eastern roman historians say she’s Cypriot, others Phrygian or Syrian. Cheers from Λευκωσία.
Είμαστε Ρωμαίοι, αδέλφια. Ως Γραικοί/Έλληνες έχουμε μόνο δικαίωμα να κυβερνάμε την Γραικία. Ως Ρωμαίοι είμαστε οι κληρονόμοι όχι μόνο του αρχαιοελληνικού πολιτισμού αλλά και όλης της Ρωμαϊκής Αυτοκρατορίας. Ζήτω η Ρώμη, πρωτεύουσα πάσης της οικουμένης. Θα επιστρέψουμε και επανακτήσουμε την Βασιλεύουσα λίαν συντόμως.
@@olbiomoiros True, the Cypriot dialect haden't taken form by then, but I'm thinking how to make more interesting the game, and give a historical hint of the empress' descend from the island. Regarding Theodora's Cypriot origins, well, one solid proof imho is the huge rebuilding project of Famagusta undertaken by Justinian shortly after he ascended to the throne, to the point that the Famagustians renamed their city Νέα Ἰουστινιανία (New Justiniania). If his wife wasn't from there, why did Justinian take the initiative of rebuilding and reconstructing an obscure city, on a random Mediterranean island? Why Famagusta and not Salamis (the Cypriot one), or Soloi?
@@user-qz4go8pf8l Τα 'πες ολόσωστα και πανέμορφα!
Exactly!
A movie about Justinian, Theodora, Belisarius, Antonina, Narses and Procopius would be excellent
Just don’t give that to Netflix 😏.
Loving the chants in the background. I’ve had the Greek, Russian, and Arabic versions of the hymn Agni Parthene on repeat on my phone for months. (but mostly the Greek 😁)
Agni Parthene is such a beautiful hymn, especially in greek but I like it in Arabic too
I love how, during the whole episode, there were orthodox chants in the background. I guess they are synchronous with middle age Greek language, thus proper for the occasion. Once again, congrats on these fine details that only show how vast your knowledge is!
Thanks very much!
I don't want a movie. A movie wouldn't do it justice. I want a full HBO show about Justinian's reign.
Make it so!
For sure the series treatment is the best, such as Band Of Brothers. When Hollywood tries to compress a large story into 2 or 3 hours you get a hot mess like Master And Commander.
How can we make this happen? Which people do we have to convince? We gotta come up with a pitch
Totally agree! Maybe a petition ? So they see a bunch of people is interested 🌼
I'd like a whole eastern roman empire series. So when It ends with Justinian we get the another series about another emporer and the series ends with the fall of constantinople and the death of emporer Constantine Dragases Palaiologos.
Procopius sources are not trustworthy,he started saying how glorious and good were Justinian and Theodora but when he didn't receive the high position that was promised by Justinian he started to put dirt on their names.
Maybe he was a pagan all along
"Ανεπρόκοπος" he was
It's more plausible that he was paying homage while he was alive and left his version of the truth after he died.
Not trustworthy but also the most complete sources we have on Justinian and Theodora. Hard to ignore sources that have no alternative.
You are too harsh on Procopius. He was an excellent historian and a beautiful writer on a par with Thucydides. He is just not as popular in western Europe because frankly all of Medieval Greek history was detested traditionally by western Europeans all the way from the Middle Ages up to our days, hopefully things are changing nowadays. Procopius, yes he was not neutral but similarly Thucydides was not neutral either - note how he vilified Macedonians... wonder if Thucydides losing Amphipolis to Macedonians and his subsequent ostracism from Athens had anything to do with that, LOL! What is fascinating with Procopius is that, like Herodotus, he does not merely pass the historical events but also the rumours and popular opinions of the people of his days, and he states these clearly. His description of the Justinian plague is so precise and so wonderful in all the pain and misery him and his people went through, transferring to us the doom-day events and the dark atmosphere of the times. Procopius is thus a must.
I love this new series!
Never thought that Lex Luthor would be teaching me Greek language.
It's really weird how this guy makes you feel. He looks young but sounds like an old wise man. Proper nice content, mate.
Thanks, Jesus!
I’m not sure how he makes me feel but I like it
Smooth voice, very nice.
I think they just made them distinctly Byzantium to not confuse them with OG rome who is in the game too
aka rome2
@Wake No. Which also is not a good choice because Romania, could be the modern country of Romania, the Latin Empire of Constantinople or the Romance speaking areas of Europe in general.
What civ do you want to play? Rome or the cooler Rome?
@Wake No. and players would be wondering why theodora is saying romania everytime she greets them
@@vinicius2uiciniv i think the most correct one would be Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων. romanized: Basileía Rhōmaíōn
Justinian and Theodora deserve a well-done epic biopic, as does the Eastern Roman Empire itself.
I know, right???
I feel like there's still too little knowledge about The Eastern Roman Empire in the West. And even when there is, it's very negatively portrayed
@LegoGuy87 Parthia had become Persia, again, specifically the Sassanid Persians. He had enough problems having Flavius Belisarius defeat or cow them, before the Plague hit and killed half the world, including Persia and China (but not apparently the Arabian Peninsula), which put aside any plans for reconquest.
@@georgevieira6686 The Plague of Justinian (a Y.pestis outbreak) put an end to the reconquest of the West, by killing half the World's population (except the Arabian Peninsula, which apparently escaped the Plague's worst). The Muslims didn't boil out of the Arabian Peninsula for a generation or so later after Justinian's death, though.
The highlight would be when they killed 30,000 in the hippodrome…and then they were made saints…lol
I was a little confused when I heard the music start playing. I thought to myself: 'Did I forget to close a tab somewhere?' Great music, anyway!
As Greek I love these videos, but more importantly I love the way you explain things! I mean no disrespect to my teachers, but I wish someone like you taught latin and Greek back in gymnasium and high school, our education system makes learning to stale and difficult.
i'm glad to see someone other than me appreciate the way Greek sounds.
Great video, thank you. The Greek language (both modern and ancient) is the most beautiful and rich language to me.
czcams.com/video/-NtMCPmwtYI/video.html&ab_channel=CallixtusCallixtus
The only language has more beautifull words Empathy Filotimo Eusplahnia.Beautifull words.
@@goodlife2144 Well, I know that Messi is the best player in the world and i didn't see all the football players in action. 🤷
Advisors: "You cannot make a harlot into a housewife".
Justinian: "Then I'll make her an empress!"
Also, not a movie. A series showing how they met, the Nika riots, the Plague, and the Western reconquests. Everything.
Well they'd portray either her or Justinian as black, so I'd rather not have a tv series until wokeism ends.
@@dundartekin5007 she would be an empowered afro-american woman, justinian would be scandinavian white and the roman empire would have all races of earth walking around like its new york
As a classics major who really enjoys you content I felt proud of myself of finding the small mistakes you found, as well as the subtleties of the middle-voice. Great stuff, and I'd love to see a video of the Greek in Civ VI as well. Cheers!
Your quality of knowledge is divine!Πραγματικός απόγονος των αναγεννησιακών και αρχαϊκών πολυμαθων!
I’m returning to my Ancient Greek studies. I’m glad I retained so much of it, and I couldn’t be happier to have discovered your channel.
I love your work, Luke. It encourages me to keep learning both ancient Greek and Latin and know a lot more about the ancient culture of Rome and Greece. Greetings from Mexico!
czcams.com/video/-NtMCPmwtYI/video.html&ab_channel=CallixtusCallixtus
Be always well cheers from Athens!
The best part about this is the Orthodox chant in the background. Epic. Δόξα τω θεώ!
I’m so pleased you liked it!
@@polyMATHY_Luke and seeing your other comments, I do not think it is too loud at all. It hit just fine 👌🙏
What's it called?
No.
I remember reading somewhere that Justinian was the last Eastern Roman emperor to speak Latin as his first language, after him they spoke Greek primarily
It was,
Justianian I
Justin II
Tiberius II
Mavrikios
Mavrikios was Greek, from a Greek family in Anatolia, had a Greek name, and Greek as a first language.
The vocal actor is obviously a native Standard Modern Greek speaker who had no saying on the text she was asked to recite. Some of the errors pointed out would be obvious to any SMG speaker, even ones without any knowledge of older forms of the language.
The middle voice is one of the things that makes Greek language the most perfect one in the world
I would love to see a movie about Justinian and Theodora! And why not also a movie about Heraclius and the Persian Wars, or Basil the Bulgar-slayer, or Nikephoros Phocas and the retaking of Crete? And the list goes on. There's literally so much material in Roman (and especially later Roman) history that is not being used at all! Movie-makers are either blind, broke, or extremely biased against Romanίa. And by the way, @polymathy Luke, Thank you so much for stating the truth! That Romanίa is Rome, the Roman Empire, not Byzantium. I loved the comparison with Lutetia! :D And of course I absolutely LOVE the background music! I recognise the name of every track of it! I love your channel in general, and all your content.
Μπράβο! Πολύ ωραία παρουσίαση! Ότι μου είχε φανεί λάθος όταν πρωτοέπαιξα το παιχνίδι το σχολίασες. Χαιρετίσματα από την Ελλάδα!
Haha I adored the Byzantine psalms in the background. Amazing work as always 👍
Thanks, bro!
Very much loved hearing the Iperagia Theotoke in the background! Thanks for continually producing awesome content.
Thanks so much for being here!
czcams.com/video/-NtMCPmwtYI/video.html&ab_channel=CallixtusCallixtus
This comment isn't really relevant to this particular video, just some thoughts that came up after watching some consecutive videos.
I really admire your objectivity regarding the different pronunciations of ancient Greek and the insight that you provide. I feel honored (and even relieved, to be honest) by the pronunciation you use and by the fact that you don't "demonize" the pronunciation of native Greek speakers, as there are a lot of people who consider it "inferior" or whatever they want to call it (there is no arguing that the pronunciation of ancient languages have some exotic factors that make them really compelling).
I would also like to add that you are so knowledgeable that you can make speakers of any language feel proud of it by pointing out the various peculiarities of native accents. For example, I hadn't even noticed that native Greek speakers (among others) have a different "s" sound than English (or other) speakers until you pointed it out in some of your videos and this one also.
You do an amazing job, you educate people, you make them happy and proud, and your stance in the controversial matter of ancient Greek pronunciation seems absolutely objective, respectful, well informed and right on point ( εύστοχη , as a Greek would say) . Thank you and keep it up!
Ευχαριστώ πολύ, Στέφανε! Thanks so much for your kind words. I'm really grateful that my position on controversial topics like Greek pronunciation is generally well accepted, particularly by native Greek speakers! We non-Greeks can learn a lot of subtle but important details about the ancient language just through studying Modern Greek. Thanks for being here!
Amazing video . The term «φίλη του Βυζαντίου» maybe not that wrong . The word Byzantium (Βυζαντίον) which was the Ancient Greek name of the city was used in everyday quite often by the local population ( especially the Hellenes of the City ) . A good example of this is Theofanis the Confessor ( Θεοφάνης ο Ομολογητής) who uses the terms “ Byzantine citizens” ( Βυζαντίου πολίτες ) and Byzantine army ( βυζαντιακος στρατός ) when referring to the population and the guard of Constantinople.
For me it's funny that You explained what is vocative case xD. Thx god I'm Polish, and cases are natural to me hahae.
Thank god for Polish!
The -e ending is used for a few nouns in Russian as well as the Latin and Greek second-declension nouns.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Yeah, but I must complain aboout how Polish peaople tryies to destroy their language via prescriptivism (Polish dialects, I miss You xD (of course they are living, but most young people thx school and maybe internet and that natural process of pretending to sound like the bigest dialect xD, don't speak in it (only Silesian stays a little good, but many speakers of it think that this is language, not dialect, so maybe I cant count this to polish dialects, like Kashubian, or something xD)). Too many letter I wrote, and with too bad English, excúsó hahae.
@@pierreabbat6157 And we have -ie, e.g. Jakub > Jakubie. Of course -ie is just e, but with palatilization. I think in Russian is the same. And We both have Bóg > Boże as I remember (of course written in cyryllic in Russian) xD.
Definitely the actress speaks Greek with the modern pronunciation, but dear friend Polymath, let me tell you this.
For a non-Greek person, your Greek is absolutely great my friend!
You speak our language, almost like a native speaker.
P.S.: And yes "φίλτατε" is the right fall!
Ευχαριστω!
@@polyMATHY_Luke παρακαλώ!
You should look at Basil II's Greek in Civilization 6
When I started learning Greek, the first thing we learned (after the alphabet) was the present tense of verbs in both the active and medio-passive voices. (Oh, that Luschnig text!) My first thought was the same thing Luke said here: "Now I understand why French and German require reflexives where English just uses an intransitive verb." While understanding the middle voice did shed light on the difference in constructions, there's a more important concept underlying things here which I think explains more things across a wider range of constructions. That is the idea of a verbal complement. That is to say, certain verbs require certain other words to complete their sense. For example, one can say, "John is reading." While a direct object is implied here, it's not required that it be explicitly expressed in order to make a complete sentence in English. On the other hand, one cannot say, "John put." Not only must the direct object be expressed here, but an adverbial expression of location is required as well. "John put it down" is a complete sentence, but leave out either the object or the location, and it doesn't work in English. In German, one can say, "Das Essen schmeckt," which literally means, "The food tastes," but idiomatically must be translated as "The food tastes good." English requires an adjective complement with the verb "taste" when used intransitively, whereas German does not. More broadly, there are many verbs in French and German (and other languages) which require a direct object complement, but their English equivalents can simply be used intransitively. Thus, "I bent over" must be translated into French as "Je me suis penché," and into German as "Ich habe mich gebeugt." (That is to say literally, "I bent myself over.") This one concept can dispell the mystery of reflexive verbs in some languages.
Theodora's voice is pretty sexy, in no small part helped by that retracted S we wax poetic about.
Yes !!!
When you know the language you just have a headache and dark flashbacks
@@crangel7405 lol what’s that supposed to mean😂Greek is beautiful ancient sounds great
@@andreastheo2019 no they do not they are just like
Yea that means the and this also means the and this also means the
Also there are always more than 2 ways to say something
Awesome! Thanks for posting!
I really appreciate your breakdown of middle voice. I’ve tried teaching myself grammar cases, etc., and some of these concepts are difficult.
Xαίρɛ Luke ! Great video, great explanations (Middle voice, for instance). Didn’t know that version of the game - already in love with Theodora’s voice !
Just a couple of days ago I was looking for some video of you analyzing ancient Greek in the media, can't believe you just uploaded this! Thanks man
Great timing!
I just want to say that using the nominative case instead of the vocative with the word "φίλος" (friend), is also common slang used in previous decades in modern Greek, and it sounds a bit street and a bit quaint at the same time. So to my modern Greek ears, her saying "Ναι, φίλτατος;" sounded a bit like she said "Yes, my dude?", which I find hilarious. I wonder if they sneaked it in as a joke or whether it was an actual mistake.
lmao
Indeed! Funny and accurate.
Honestly for the quality of these videos you upload pretty quick, props on the work ethic man
Thanks, my friend! Every Friday at noon (NY time)! That’s the goal.
Your explanation of the middle voice is the only one that made me finally get it!!! You are great!!!
I'm delighted!
the middle voice is awesome , it also gives an air of humility.
Like your idea about a movie. The whole life of Theodora and Justinian was a great story of Dark and Golden age of Eastern (and then even with Rome itself) Roman empire. It could be even series on HBO or Netflix.
Just stumbled upon your video by accident and honestly I’m so glad I did because I truly learned a lot in the video (I’m not even finished but I just had to stop by and comment hah). As someone who loves studying languages but also loves studying history, this is a fantastic balance of the two and with incredible references, examples and comparisons all throughout. Thank you for a phenomenal video and I can’t wait to watch more of your videos!
Thanks!
Another wonderful video! Thank you!
Thank you for the video! I didn't expect Byzantine chants in the background. That grammar lesson on Middle voice was truly interesting, although I hadn't learn it that way.
I was taught:
Ενεργητική φωνή: κάνω κάτι σε κάποιον/κάτι
Παθητική φωνή: παθαίνω κάτι από κάποιον/κάτι
Μέση φωνή: παθαίνω κάτι από τον ίδιο μου τον εαυτό. (i.e. κάνω κάτι στον εαυτό μου)
E.g.: Ε.Φ. λύω τὸν δεσμὸν/λύω τὸν Πέτρον
Π.Φ. ἐλύθην ὑπὸ τοῦ Πέτρου
Μ.Φ. ἐλυσάμην (υπονοείται: από τον εαυτὸ μου, i.e. έλυσα τον εαυτό μου)
That use of Middle Voice as in to "have someone something done" is new to me (that's what I understood of what you said). Could you suggest a book/paper etc. to read more about it?
Γιατί δεν περίμενες να ακούγονται Βυζαντινά άσματα; Βυζαντινή ήταν η Θεοδώρα. Από το 330 και μετά η Αυτοκρατορία δεν ήταν πια Ρωμαϊκή. Ειδικά μετά τη διάσπαση της Αυτοκρατορίας στα δύο, το ανατολικό κομμάτι ήταν 100% ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ. Η επίσημη γλώσσα της Βυζαντινή αυτοκρατορίας ήταν τα Βυζαντινά (Μεσαιωνικά) Ελληνικά.
I have to hear what you have to say for Pericles, Gorgo, Alexander, and Basil II’s Greek phrases in Civ VI
YES! been looking forward to this one
Thank you so much for your lessons. I have been learning french and latin simultaneously. And it has been a well journey. And mind you I am only 23 years old. And over this past year my pronunciation has doubled. And you have opened my eyes to the world. And I'm excited to tell you that when I return back to school I will be studying linguistics. Thank you so much teacher.
Adoro seus vídeos sobre Latim! 🤓
Saudações do Brasil!
Me gustó mucho conocer la historia, χάριν σόι φίλε!
Mate, I really do love your videos! Thank you so much.
Thanks!
I love your theatrical introduction and sauciness ... you make Latin and ancient Greek fun - which I can not believe I am writing!
Your recitation of Theodora's statement was so inspiring - wow!
That’s so nice of you to say. Thanks very much.
Damn, I had no idea that something like a "middle voice" had even existed in the Indo-European languages. Opens a whole wide new view not only on the languages, but on the ways of thought of the former people themselves.
When it comes to Theodore, I love Byzantine history and I am so glad you'd covered her story as well.
Carry on, brother, your content is so worth and fun to watch.
Edit: is there someone who could tell me the name of the background music?
Fascinating stuff. I hope you'll go on to cover all the Greek-speaking leaders in Civ VI as well. Between Pericles, Gorgo, Alexander, and Basil II, that game is a gold mine of Greek-related content.
Do they have different pronunciation, historical variant and dialects? That would be cool!
@@user-et8vm9cc3t Supposedly, yes. I don't speak Greek myself, but according to sources on the internet, they have Pericles and Alexander speaking Attic Greek, Gorgo speaking Doric Greek, and Basil II speaking some kind of Attic/Koine hybrid. I really hope Luke will cover them and let us know in detail!
Beautiful job! Πολύ προσεγμένη δουλειά!!
This was my first visit. I was thoroughly entertained and learnt interesting information. What more could I want?
In δυσχερής, I randomly said to myself "the neuter must be δυσχερές", and it was. I have literally no idea of Greek except for some roots in scientific names hahaha
well done, I learned something new. Thank you.
Ευχαριστώ!
@@polyMATHY_Luke Damn, you start to really understand how much influence Constantinople had on your culture ( I'm Ukrainian and it's so happens Constantinople was our main trading partner, cultural and religious influencer, and raiding victim, of course. Black Sea rules, what can I say.) when you can correctly pronounce some of those words just because you see familiar symbols. And being neighbors to Poland we can say Jakub Blazczykowski's surname without breaking our tongues, yay!
Fun fact. Our ancestors used to call Constantinople "Tsargorod" which means " city of a king".
you are brilliant and you inspire me to continue my studies of the classical languages. thank you.
You are great mate! Love the videos.
Great video, I love how you told her story at the end. Hope you do the same with Basil II from Civ VI (and the other four or so greco-roman leaders there as well)!
Great idea!
Can you do a video on Gorgo's Greek from Civ 6 next?
These are so great. I've been very curious about the accuracy of the language used in Civ 6. The use of ancient languages is such a great thing for games like this.
Thank you so much. I hope you get a chance to assess the Ancient Greek used in Civ6 too.
Amazing video, and as a native speaker (bilingual, as I grew up in the US), I absolutely loved your analysis! The chants in the background were very pretty too, and a nice touch. I also really love that you have an appreciation for Eastern Rome and not just classical Greece as most people do, even though your area of expertise is Ancient Greek. Thank you for all the coverage and praise you give to my beautiful language!
Theodora is now my historical waifu
She's Justinian's waifu tho...
@@AngraMainiiu She was many men's waifu
She may be be a Greek speaker but she's more Roman than any German from the Holy Roman Empire
Voltaire's joke was that the Holy Roman Empire wasn't Holy, it wasn't Roman, and wasn't an empire. He was right on all three!
@@davidfinch7407 Bro I've NEVER heard that joke before... ever!
The Germans wanted the dominium mundi that's why they claimed Roman rights.In reality it's like having Gnodomar taking Rome from Julian the Philosopher/Apostate and telling him "I took the city I am now the Roman not you" which is quite laughable.Despite their fat words and as far as I know, the only state in Europe able to cut gold coins was the Byzantine, the rest were forbidden from this and the H.R.E. as well, that of course up until 1204, the reason was that this was the privilege of the Roman emperor and by doing otherwise you put doubts on his rights, with few exceptions made to provoke the byzantines the majority of west was completely complying with it and so the H.R.E. as well.Its not a secret that the Germans tried to gain legitimacy by marrying into the Roman royal families or the closest relatives.It is characteristic even among the Germans that the true Roman heritage was very big thing in terms of prestige, for example Frederick the Quarrelsome(his mother was a byzantine princess) confronted the H.R.E. emperor as equal in terms of pride and he preferred to accommodate himself rather than accept the emperor's hospitality, something the emperor appreciated...Fredrick's pride on his surroundings was such that he did not hesitate to expand on his neighbours and he had a good military to join him on his efforts, he even smashed a mongol army on his borders, such a pity he wasn't born before the Crusaders sack Constantinople, he would definitely cause troubles upon the emperor's death and would not hide in his palace as the Hungarian king did despite the right to claim the throne, as he was for many years Caesar of the Romans and appointed heir up until the birth of the real son of the emperor.
In fact, the habitants of the Byzantine Empire did never call themselves like that, they called themselves Romans (altough in greek)
Exactly the Roman greekroman civilization survived In konstantinoupoli
the German took over Rome
They don’t have nothing to do with this tradition
You can see that in the answer to the Pope
Ofcourse and we speak Greek
Is not a foreign language during the Roman Empire
The way u pronounce certain words is so pure and soft......I would love to listen to you reading some acient Latin or Greek text. It's great that u bring knowledge about those some what forgotten languages. Because they lay in the begginings of many modern languages
Thanks! Check out my audiobooks store at LukeRanieri.com
The music in the background is really nice, I like the voice of whoever is singing a lot.
She's one of my favourite women in all history. I absolutely love her.
As a non native speaker of modern Greek with no knowledge of ancient Greek this was really helpful to improve my modern Greek. Because there are ways of saying things that seem to have preserved the middle voice and I always failed in understanding the logic behind them and therefore struggle to remember.
What a great show!
There's something magical about the Greek language - especially in song
Excellent work Luke. Συγχαρητήρια! I really enjoyed the video. Thank you for taking the time to do videos about Greek, a language that is very often overshadowed by Latin (in a historical sense).
Thanks so much for watching! Yeah, like you can tell from my little poster, I put equal weight on both languages
Love this channel
It loves you back!
Theodora is definitely one of, if not the, most underrated rulers in the history. She did a ton to keep the church from falling apart, she fought for women rights and made very, very important changes in that field that lasted for millenia, she kept the whole empire from breaking into pieces, or going into civil war, and generally, was an equal to the most powerful Byzantine emperor, yet I rarely see people ever talk about her.
I agree
Και πάλι συγχαρητίρια για το έργο σας !
Ευχαριστώ πολύ!
Gracias por otro excelente video, muy específico y con el rigor que merece el tema!!
Gracias amīcissima!!
Excellent. As a greek guy and a fan of the civilization games i love it! Keep making all this cool Byzantium stuff!
Well, Byzantine is also the term used for people from the city of Constantinople. Anna Comnena uses that term to describe people from the capital but still Theodora would personally have seen herself as Roman since this is a diplomatic consultation. It would be weird telling someone not from your lands that you are the "dear"one of just one city when you rule over many.
Che piacere, qui, e con tutti quanti. rr
The way you explained the middle voice makes it sound like it might be "you will be taught a lesson by me", at least to my ear. That feels midway between the active and passive voices to me. Things to look into!
Very well made video, thank you so much! :)
Thanks so much!
Hey Luke, great video! I can't help but wonder though whether the transliteration for διδάξομαι was wrong, and it was meant to be διδάξωμε instead, which would simply change the meaning to ''We will teach you''. Also about the explanation of why the middle voice was used instead of the active, as a native Greek I can say that for the most part your explanation about making it more personal was correct, and same thing is used in Modern Greek (We have medio-passive mood nowadays),but for this specific verb I don't think it is plausible? Anyway, great video and your points on pronunciation were really accurate and correct! Her intonation, apart from the pronunciation of the phonemes, is also quite Greek sounding and without a doubt the speaker must have grown up in Greece, or a Greek household.
I grew up bilingually, where one was german(ic) and the other was roman(ce)ian. meanwhile I'm speaking english, french and italian and spanish on holidays level. by interest I understand and can read scandinavian languages in good parts, baltics not so much, or better said not so swift. I just started learning - or better said diving a bit into - samskrti and koyne. I enjoy so much listening to your remarks, language in my head becomes three-dimensional. I perfectly understand the middle voice. I guess I would understand significant parts of real indoeuropean, proto-i.-e. is mostly a piece of cake to me. I would love to - and I will - get into semitic languages next. You are like a beacon to me. Big thanks.
That is why nowadays universities are stopping Greek lessons. Because the have stopped να διδάσκοντε (in purpose with an ε). It is truly amazing if you get to understand the endless depth of the Greek words. The meaning, the origin, the root.
Been here for the first time mister. Will stay here. Good job. Earned a subscription.
(When you say μάθημα try to hit the MA harder and θη with a little more open mouth ;) )
Ευχαριστώ. My pronunciation is Ancient, not Modern.
Fantastic Luke. You manage to keep raising the bar further and further with each new installment. Informative content, cinematographic quality, narrative and literary rhythm...This video is a treat, a real feast.
Theodora and Justinian. One of "those" periods in History. These guys made the Imperial Roman heart beat hard again in the Mediterranean, not only consolidating the Eastern Roman Empire but conquering allmost all of Italy, and other big chunks of the old Western Roman Empire. But with these two the Roman heart was beating from another city, Constantinople.
Constantinople. Byzantion. Interesting diglossia. The first ideal candidate for an Eastern Roman capital was Troy, seeking to return to the mythical origins of Rome as established by Virgil when the Empire began with Augustus, and Constantine even had the building works began, but the idea was abandoned because the magnificent natural harbour that had made Troy such a thriving city through millennia had already disappeared. Up North there was Byzantium, founded by Greeks from Megara in the 7th century B.C.; it wasn't where Aeneas had come from but it was good enough, dominating the gates between the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. So you've got this strong Roman dynasty and court, officially even talking in Latin, transplanted into the heart of the Greek world. And you even have one of "those" generals, Belisarius. All the elements are there to make this period of History interesting. You only need the author to chronicle it. Ideally a Shakespeare. Procopius sounds like a very good option. And like another treasure to enjoy for all those Hellenophiles out there who have already read quite a bit of Epic, Ionic, Attic or Koine (not to mention native Greeks, he, he...) Those seven Loeb volumes of Procopius's works sure look tempting. And intriguing. Five volumes of official History, war after war with the Persians, the Vandals, the Goths... and his scurrilous Secret History, the stuff "behind the curtains", the gossip... Vey juicy!
Anyway, there's no need to read Procopius in the original language to already enjoy this video :)
A film? Count me in. I'm ready to chip in in a crowdfunding or something. And yeah, we want everything, to hear 6th century credible Greek and Latin...Let's have a flight of fantasy...What about Metatron giving advice on armour and military? What about Ioannis Stratakis as Ioustinianós?? What about you as Belisarius??? Let's goooooooo!
Haha I’d love to act in it! As Belisarius or anyone. Thanks for the comments! I’m glad you liked the video.