Why Greeks aren't called "Greeks" in Greek 🇬🇷
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- The Greek word for "Greek" isn't related to the term used in various Western European languages: greco, griego, grec - why are these so different from the Greek word for "Greeks": Hellenes. Do any other languages use the "Hellenic" root? What languages use neither? And why is it we don't use the "Hellenic" term in these languages? Is it a vast conspiracy against the Greeks?
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Intro and outro music: Overture of Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute) by Mozart
SOURCES
Greek: A History of the Language and its People, by Geoffrey Horrocks
amzn.to/3FXYedR
Parian Marble: chs.harvard.edu/chapter/2-tex...
Robert S. P. Beekes (2009). Etymological Dictionary of Greek
Aristotle, Meteorologica, I, 352b.
Homer. Iliad, 2.681-685
Pausanias, Periegesis, book 5, p. 136.
#greek #greece #ancientgreece
00:00 Intro
00:23 Ἕλληνες & Ἀχαιοί (Héllēnes & Achaîoi)
01:20 The Iliad's "Hellas"
02:05 Hellen and the Amphictyonic League
03:58 Why they're "Greeks" in English and other languages
06:05 Graikoí from Graea
07:00 But where is Graea???
07:31 Graea = Tanagra
09:06 Etymology of Graea
09:51 Graikoí as the pre-Classical term for "Greeks"
12:10 The Parian Marble
12:54 Shaka when the walls fell
15:10 Coptic for "Greek"
16:27 Greek Paranoia
16:38 Analogy with "German"
17:40 Greeks do this too
18:31 Turkey...yay!....?
19:07 Outtakes
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I have an idea of what you could do for a video. Can you do a video on vowel hiatuses? Or could you do a vidoe on the phonetic difference between glides aka semivowels and diphthongs as many people claim that diphthongs are simply just vowels subjoined by either the sounds /j/ or /w/ even I seem to agree with them that is the difference between /eɪ/ sound like in the English word face compared to the sound cluster /ej/? czcams.com/video/gtnlGH055TAb/video.htmlu
Luke, one question for you.
Only you can answer. If not you noone can:
Why almost the whole universe use the Greek word Πολιτεία for Police (polizei, polis, etc) but Greeks say Astynomia- αστυνομία
@@alexandroscomingaftermonke596
From Etymonline:
1530s, "the regulation and control of a community" (similar in sense to policy (n.1)); from Middle French police "organized government, civil administration" (late 15c.), from Latin politia "civil administration," from Greek polis "city"
Until mid-19c. used in England for "civil administration;" application to "administration of public order, law-enforcement in a community" (1716) is from French (late 17c.), and originally in English referred to France or other foreign nations.
The sense of "an organized civil force for maintaining order, preventing and detecting crime, etc." is by 1800; the first force so-named in England was the Marine Police, set up 1798 to protect merchandise at the Port of London. Meaning "body of officers entrusted with the duty of enforcing laws, detecting crime, etc." is from 1810.
In its most common acceptation, the police signifies the administration of the municipal laws and regulations of a city or incorporated town or borough by a corps of administrative or executive officers, with the necessary magistrates for the immediate use of force in compelling obedience and punishing violation of the laws, as distinguished from judicial remedies by action, etc. The primary object of the police system is the prevention of crime and the pursuit of offenders; but it is also subservient to other purposes, such as the suppression of mendicancy, the preservation of order, the removal of obstructions and nuisances, and the enforcing of those local and general laws which relate to the public health, order, safety, and comfort. [Century Dictionary, 1895]
Your ancient Greek is excellent. The "oi" in Greek sounds like "e" and it is plural of male subjects ending in "os".
φιλε μου σε ακουσα με προσοχη.αλλα δυστυχως αυτη ειναι η δικαιολογια που χρησιμοποιουν τα δυτικα εθνη για να δικαιολογησουν την λεξη Greece,ομως αυτο δεν ειναι ειναι αληθεια.
το Γραικος ή Γραικια ειναι ως υπενθυμιση για τους σκλαβους,κ ειναι υποτιμητικο.επισης ειναι μονο για ενα μερος οπως ειπες.
επισης υπαρχουν μερικες ανακριβειες μεσα στο βιντεο.
κ οι Δαναοι ενσωματωνονται στις 12 φυλες του Ισραηλ,αν καταλαβαινεις οι εβραιοι εγκατεστησαν την θρησκεια τους μεσω τετοιων μεσων καθως κ διαστρευλωνοντας διδαχες του Πλατωνα.
για εμενα στο παραδειγμα με την Γερμανια για εμενα ειναι Deutchland.
επισης οι κινεζοι μας αποκαλουν Si-La (ο αλλος μεγαλος πολιτισμος)
κ οι Τουρκοι μας καλουν Υunans=Ιωνες.
μαθε περισσοτερα.
Fun fact: Greece in Norwegian is 'Hellas', very different from most languages.
True! I omitted that cool fact since the video was running long.
Also worth mentioning that the people are called "grekere" and the language is called "gresk". There's also the adjective "hellenistisk", but it is only used in relations to Ancient Greece.
Norwegians are giving pick me kid vibes 😂
@@polyMATHY_Luke In Chinese too, the word for Greece is obviously coming from the word Hellas.
Μάνῃ Ρέττα, Magna 'Retta or Μάνια 'Ρέτσα, Magna Grea. A number of GRea's names with the epithet Magna. It means that Rea's dominion was expanded from the hellenic continent to the west, forming Greater Greece, and to the east forming Rhea Kybele's dominion. It' s pure geomythology of 2nd earth.
In Chinese and Cantonese, we call Greece as 希臘.
It is pronounced as "Hsi La" in Mandarin, and "Hei-Laap" in Cantonese. And they are much closer to the endonym words Hellas and Ellada.
/ɕila/ to be exact.
"hsi" actually got me thinking about the Sellanes/Hellanes one
@@eoyenh No, that's just the type of Romanization used in the spelling of Cantonese or Mandarin. There's about 3-4 main varieties and some lesser known ones. Do not confuse the sound of the Latin alphabet letters you may be familiar with from a Romance or Germanic language with the sound they represent in Cantonese or Mandarin. For example, another spelling under a different Romanization system (Pinyin) for the same word in Mandarin is Xīlà. Compare Deng Hsiao Ping with Deng Xiao Ping - same sound, different spelling.
yeah, I can never remember the word for Greece in Cantonese cause it's not the same as English lol
You mean "Xīlà", as it is written in Hanyu Pinyin.
I detest the Wade-Giles spelling, since "Hsi" gives an impression of a hissing snake.
You are right, we do that too. Galli for French people, Helveti for Swiss people, Ollandi for Dutch, etc.
But I don't think anyone in Greece is complaining about our exonyms! We love them
I love them too! We use mostly the same ones in spoken Ancient Greek today.
He likes to take jabs at Greeks & Greek History & tries to create BS to turn things into a Joke! 🤡 It’s a classic "Low-Psychology" Germanic Charlemagnic Roman-Bug-Boo Move! 👍🏻
Exonyms are cool because they show that you are well known around the World. We Danes have hardly any except that Greenlanders call us qallunaat.
Helveti *IS* the correct name for the Swiss! Have you ever wondered why the official initials are CH?
Not everyone. Speak for yourself. We are Hellenes.
We say "Hellas" in Norway like you say in the video, I think it sounds beautiful
I think a great example would have been how Iran was called Persia for a long time because that was what the Greeks called it.
An outstanding example
And even that name, just like Graikoi = Graecus, is Native to the Iranic Speakers as well: Pars
Of course this doesn’t include all the Iranic Speakers, it was a regional word, but Iranic none-the-less.
Farsi/Phars/Peres/ Pers + ia (land), is like calling England 'English-land'.
Persia was dropped, at the request of the Shah,
in response to German-land declaring itself Aryan
/Noble: what 'Iran' had always called itself.
@@differous01 Well, Iran is better, because with Iran, you solidify the nation as like the Center-Base of all Iranic Speaking Nations! And there are a few of them! In Antiquity there were even more!!! 👍🏻
The same thing for Palestine. Palestine its an ancient greek name as you can find in Herodotus books
My favorite exonym is the Swahili name for Portugal, which is "Ureno". The name comes from the Portuguese phrase "o reino", meaning "the kingdom".
Que interessante, não sabia disso
Now that's my favorite too.
My personal favourite is the Maori word for France: Wīwī. Oui, oui - get it?
@@marcasdebarun6879😂😂😂😂
Only the Greek-speaking people of Southern Italy call themselves "Greeks" (for Romance influence), and their language "Griko" in Salento and "Greko/Griko" in Calabria.
True! In this case, probably not directly from Romance influence. See the whole video for the explanation.
Though you’re right, in the sense that some modern Greeks use a /grVk/ word.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Oh yeah, I'm watching now! :)
@@polyMATHY_LukeActually there is a demotic poem from the Greek War of Independence, where warlord Athanasios Diakos refuses the Ottoman proposal to convert to Islam, responding: "Εγώ Γραικός γεννήθηκα, Γραικός θε να πεθάνω". Earlier in the poem, the hero urges his men: "σταθῆτε ἀντρειὰ σὰν Ἕλληνες καὶ σὰ Γραικοὶ σταθῆτε"
In Griko some words and are the same as in Crete island in the local dialect with many words still from ancient greek being the same
@@georgekiriak7027The real Cretan dialect spoken in mountain villages by elderly people is a lot more closer to ancient Greek than the common tongue (along with the Cypriot dialect)
In Korean, Greece and the Greek language are often called, 그리스 [gɨrisɨ] and 그리스어 [gɨrisɨʌ] respectively. But they have been also called 희랍(希臘) [hɰirap] and 희랍어(希臘語) [hɰirabʌ], old borrowings from China, which are related to Hellen. And the word 희랍어(希臘語) [hɰirabʌ] is still often used in college curriculums in South Korea, but often referring to the Ancient Greek or the Koine. An old borrowing represents an old stage of Greek language :)
And in biblical studies, 희랍(希臘) [hɰirap] and 희랍어(希臘語) [hɰirabʌ] in Korean, even though these words by themselves obviously mean Greece and the Greek language in general, often refer to the Ancient Greece and the Koine. 그리스 [gɨrisɨ] and 그리스어 [gɨrisɨʌ] aren't used in such a way.
Thank you
Actually, in Biblical studies, New Testament Greek will usually be called 헬라어 Hellaeo [hel.la.ʌ] according to the name for Greece used in the traditional Korean translation of the Bible, 헬라 Hella [hel.la]. 희랍어 Huirabeo [hi.ɾa.bʌ] for Greek language and 희랍 Huirap [hi.ɾap] for Greece (note that 희 hui is pronounced [hi], not [hɰi]) are mostly associated with the study of Ancient Greek as part of classical studies. Huirap is just the Sino-Korean reading corresponding to the common Sinographic name 希臘 which is Xīlà in Mandarin, Hēi-laahp in Cantonese, Hi Lạp in Vietnamese, etc.
And the Japanese use a very similar sounding word, don't they ? Girisa, if i remember correctly.
@@brianonscript 희 pronounced [hɰi] is one of the standard pronunciations :) 희 hui pronounced [hi] is allowed and pretty widespread especially among younger generations, but that doesn't mean that 희 pronounced [hɰi] is wrong. And the usage of 희랍 [hɰirap] and 희랍어 [hɰirabʌ] for the Ancient Greece and the Koine in biblical studies is old-fashioned but that also doesn't mean they aren't used in that way. Also I would like to note that 희랍 or huirap is not just a "reading" but has been a real word. Just like you can't say 외교 (外交) is simply "a reading;" it is a Sino-Korean word just like 희랍 and 희랍어.
I'm really happy with having lots of names for my country in different languages, it goes to show the cultural depth of our relations. Afterall, everyone has had some sort of contact with the Greeks in history
I was going to make this POINT !!!!
Excellent Comment!!!! 🇬🇷✊🏻
To complicate things even more, various languages (particularly Turkish) refer to Greeks as the entire ethnicity (rather than Greeks of Greece specifically) as "Rum" which comes from "Ρωμηός" (="Roman"). "Roman" was the predominant ethnonym for the Greeks for most of the middle ages and much of the early modern period. It remains an alternative ethnonym used by Greeks for themselves, and the Greek language (as well as various Greek dialects) are equivalently "Ρωμαίικα" (="Roman [tongue]").
They also call us, way more commonly, "Yunanlar", or "Ionians". Why? Because Greeks in Anatolia mainly derived from Ionian Greeks, who settled in the west coast of Anatolia, and then, especially during Hellenistic times, expanded throughout Asia Minor, and were to become known as "Ionians" by the Persians, the Arabs, the Seljuks and Ottomans, who all calls us as Yunan. [(Persian: یونان (Yūnān), اليونانية (Arabic), יווני (Hebrew)] etc...
@@Pan472 He says that in the video
Well, that's not that wrong, considering for the most part, greece was inside the Binzantine Empire, or should I say, the Eastern Roman Empire, thus being romans.
@@Pan472 Yup ever since the Islamic Golden Age the Arabs used both the terms Yunan and Rum when referring to the Eastern Romans or Byzantines as they are known in historiography.
@@AmodeusR It wasn't named neither Byzantine nor Eastern Roman but was called Rhomania or Basilia Ton Rhomaion. (Ρωμανία - Βασιλεία των Ρωμαίων). This is the term the Greeks used when referring to the Imperium Romanum for thousands of years.
I love that the exonyms are there. They show how people and history arent two disconnected things! The comment about Alexander was spot on also! 😂
Right!
There was nothing to Conquer in the West! Just backward savages!
The Easterners at that time were Rich & made the Westerners look like Peasants! 🤷🏻♂️
Greek nationalist in the Ottoman Empire often held debates on what to call themselves collectively as a nation before the revolution, some actually did propose using “Graikoi”.
Yeah the term was used sometimes in folk speech (even though usually considered earlier during Eastern Roman times as a western slur from their own Roman perspective), compare the words of famous Greek hero Athanasius Diakos before he was condemned to death after battle of Alamana: "Γραικός γεννήθηκα, Γραικός θέλω να πεθάνω" - "I was born Greek and I want to die as Greek".
@@researcher7578 υπαρχει και η εκδοχη οτι ειπε "ρωμιος γενηθηκα ,ρωμιος θε να πεθανω"
I'm not sure if that's true, that people holded debates about the name since in Greek throughout the periods the ancient term of Greece and Greeks was always Hellas and Hellenes (even if they had stopped using them). Having also the accounts of Greeks of that period, especially the ones associated with the Greek enlightenment is obvious that the term Hellas was the one that everyone used.
I often see such stories in the internet when irrelevant events became exaggerated and presented as "debates". We don't even have a debate or a conversation about the name of the country when the Revolution started, despite that all Greeks were still called themselves Romioì. The passage to the name Hellenes seems to have without any question or debate. We have no such account whatsoever.
But the name of hellenes was still widely used throughout all of greece. We can even see the last byzantine emperors referring to themselves as exactly hellenes
Έχεις ξεχάσει σκόπιμα την περίοδο όπου η λέξη "Έλληνας" δεν σήμαινε παρά έναν ειδολολάτρη, μη-χριστιανό;
Πρέπει επίσης να ξεχωρίσεις τις τάσεις που υπήρχαν ανάμεσα στους λόγιους διαφόρων εποχών και τον αυτοπροσδιορισμό του ίδιου του λαού.. Ο οποίος αποκαλούσε τον εαυτό του μόνο ως "Ρωμαίους/Ρωμιούς" κατά το μέγιστο μέρος της "βυζαντινής" ιστορίας.
Greece is 希腊 (xī là) in standard chinese, which is descended from Ἑλλάς! 😏 great video as always! (your Chinese pronunciation is actually surprisingly good :-) )
As a Greek I found this episode delightful! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@polyMATHY_Luke It was a real treat man, again as a Greek here, there was so much stuff I was ignorant about even though I'm really into history
Luke, Greeks dont care. We only care about the survival of the language. Please save the Greek language so the future generations will have the pleasure to find Greek speakers for the millennia to come.
Lets take Greece to the next millennium. This language survived 5,000 years, we should protect it, its living history.
He has an Americanized View of Modern Greeks from Movies like:
My Big Fat Greek Wedding
Hilarious! 😂
I do agree, though, about the preservation of the Language! 👍🏻
@@SpartanLeonidas1821We all agree about that.
@@vanmars5718
Yes, it must be preserved…if that’s what you meant.
As for the other thing I wrote: that’s why I asked him a question….if he even has ONE GREEK friend or acquaintance or even colleague. And if so, are they Diaspora Americanized Greeks that don’t know much about Modern Greek Culture? 🤔
As someone that has lived half my life in Greece & the other half in the Diaspora, I can see the differences & respect both.
Im so curious to see if I will get any reply back on this question, he usually doesn’t reply back to my questions because I also take the subtle jabs at him that he does on all Hellenes & ΕΛΛΑΣ in general…😏
@@SpartanLeonidas1821 Diaspora Greeks are honestly a really sad case. I've met even 1st generation immigrants who have absolutely no clue about how real Greeks are like. They're basically Americans at this point and it's also a problem for the rest of us as they terribly misrepresent Greek culture(s) to the rest of the world.
@@gnas1897 Many of their Parnets arrived to their nations dirt poor from their villages. They kept many of the good aspects of some more conservative aspects of our traditions, but unfortunately also many of the bad ones, the closed minded views etc. They haven’t realized that Greece & the World has changed & they teach their children a skewed view on what being Greek should be today back in Greece. Maybe technology will bridge the gap or make it worse, who knows! 🤷🏻♂️
It is such a joy to watch your videos about Greece and the Greeks!
We all love you! Please don't stop!
Greetings from Athens!
Πολύ ευγενικός! Ευχαριστώ
Well in English Greece is officially "Hellenic Republic" . And in official athletic organizations the national team wear the "HELLAS" on the outfits.
3d Hellenic rebuild 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous
3rd Hellenic Republic*
I was hoping you'd make mention of the term Ρωμιός or Ρωμαίος we used, up until the 20th century. We also used to call our language collectively as Ρωμαϊκά . I wish you made more videos about Byzantine-Greek and on the Eastern Roman Empire, it doesn't get a lot of attention.
He can’t do that, Charlemagnic Germanism doesn’t allow that! 🤣
@@SpartanLeonidas1821 He is not the biased person you think.
@@camponotusinflatus9920 I understand that he has had his arguments with a few id!otic Greeks on this platform over the BS that they say. But his constant subtle jabs at anything Greek are quite obvious. He also misrepresents Greek History & National Sentiment & seems to feel that things Greek are his personal joke. I won’t even mention his trek record, from the videos I’ve seen, on the Romioi, also known to us today as the "Byzantines" & their Hellenicity! His Macedonia videos were also ill-informed & irresponsible as well!
Isn’t that name still in use among the Greeks of Istanbul, as well as the descendants of the Crimean Greeks in Ukraine?
@@joonaa2751 Yes!
Η λεπτομέρεια περί της αποικίας Κύμης και η σύνδεση με το αρχαίο όνομα των Γραικών, ήταν συγκλονιστική. Εύγε Luke!
In Georgian, Greece will be “Saberdzneti”, Greeks “Berdzeni”
Love Greece🇬🇷❤
From Georgia🇬🇪❤
Take a shot for everytime Luke says Greek
Haha. 🍻
@@polyMATHY_Luke Sköl 🍻
🥴🍻
BTW, a random note - regarding Włochy/Włosi - Polish calls walnut “orzech włoski” (lit. Italian nut) but of course Wal- in walnut (which is historically the same as ‘Welsh’) and Polish ‘włoski’ are cognates - they both trace back to Germanic *walhaz ‘Gaulish, Celtic, foreign’. So in the end both languages call the nut “Gaulish”.
In Turkish, Greeks are called "komşu" (neighbour), Yunan, Yunanlı, Rum and Grek. All those words have different usages .
I know this name wasn’t the central focus of the video, but the etymology of “Achaea” can probably be taken back even further, to the Bronze Age. In Hittite, “Achaea” was Aḫḫiyawā 𒄴𒄭𒅀𒉿𒀀 (aḫ-ḫi-ya-wa-a), and in Mycenaean Greek there is at least one possible attestation of this name in the extant Linear B corpus (but in the allative case), Akhawiyade 𐀀𐀏𐀹𐀊𐀆 (a-ka-wi-ja-de), which I guess (in my purely amateur conjecture) would be something like Akhawiā 𐀀𐀏𐀹𐀊𐀀 (a-ka-wi-ja-a) in the nominative case. Ultimately the etymology went from Akhaiwíā Ἄχαιϝᾱ (Archaic) to Akhāḯā Ἀχᾱΐᾱ (Attic) and Akhaiḯē Ἀχαιΐη (Ionic), after the loss of waû ϝαῦ /w/.
Not quite.
Remember, just as 𐀀𐀏𐀹𐀊𐀆 /AKaWiJaDe~Akawijade/ is declined in the Allative -𐀆 /-de/, so too is 𒄴𒄭𒅀𒉿𒀀 /AḫḪiIaWaA~AḫḫiiawaA~AḫiyawaA/ a Sumerian Locative "declension" -𒀀 /-A
@@ShangDiAboveGodhood Ah yes, you’re right, I did miss the context in which I found the word. That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
An older name for Greece is Iavan ( as in Ionian sea), which Greece is still called in some languages - Turkish for example). The Indian Yavana kings are Greeks.
@user-fj3ul1td3t: Were they not Graeco-Bactrian? Is the given definition of Yavana : a Greek or any foreigner?
@@karenburrows9184I think Indians called us smth like that back then?
@@Lisa-zi6hb I'm sure they called us all kinds of things back then, Lisa, all of them bad. Most of which I'm glad I don't know.
In Chinese, Greece is called “希腊”
Its pronunciation is "xila" or "sila" translated from Hellas.
In Hawaiian Greece is Helene and in Italian there is a poetic form of Greece that is Ellade.
Back in my 12yrs of basic education, i wish i had a history teacher like you.. what you do in this channel is a true gem! There was a time i actually hated history class, all i had to do was read and learn by heart 10.000 random old periods and references and act like i knew what i was talking about. You actually bring perspective based on facts!! Makes me wanna read history along with my children one day..
That’s very nice of you to say! Thanks for watching my videos.
Listening to your video while in vacation in Greece! Beautiful country!
I envy you there!
Most people call Greeks a form of Yunanis as you say. Greeks to the west, Yunanis to the east which is far more populous. We (Greeks) do actually call ourselves Greki ("Γρεκοί") occasionally even know and most of us know why. We also know why they call us Yunani, in the East. But my favourite word for Greeks is the Georgian name. We also used to call ourselves "Ρωμιοί" (Romans).
Great Comment!!!
I think Loukas has an American: "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" viewpoint on the Modern Greeks & how we think! 🤣
Πού μένεις και αυτοαποκαλείστε Γραικοί;
@@rrealgr Griko stin Kato Italia. Graikos ston Mesaiona kai Metagenestera, alla oxi simerina..🤷🏻♂️
It's based on Ionia and it's derived from the old Persian pronunciation. That's why the people in the east call it Yūnān or Yūnāni.
We only call ourselves Hellenes(Έλληνες) and no we don't call ourselves Greeks. That would be the Greeks of southern Italy which also call their language Griko I think.
hellenic language sound so mystic ,so georgeous so facking cool ,like we are into a movie.same time makes me creapy by sounding it.Luke how the hell u learned that language ??so jealous seriously
Dude your content is simply amazing ! The best part though is that you even make jokes the Greek way ... with the same sarcastic smile and the use of "φίλε μου" before every pun ! Keep it up
Ευχαριστώ πολύ, φίλε μου! Είμαι πολύ χαρούμενος που άκουσα ότι πέτυχα έτσι. I hope to have more content for Greeks in the future.
I was trying to learn ancient Greek by myself in order to better understand the origin of some words in "Greko tis Kalavría" (Calabrian greek). Up until now, I've only found three verbs - I had to interrupt because of university - "Ερκομαι" = "Erkome" (To come), "Βλέπω" = "Vlepo" (To see) and "Γνωρίζω" = "Nnorizo/norizo/annorizo" (To know).
Azzalo video, se cheretao na mu ematthe tikandì cinurio. Kalì dulía.
όντως άτσαλο το βίντεο.
Hearing you speak the archaic pronunciation never gets old. I can't understand a word you are saying, but thankfully you have the text on the screen :)
My thoughts exactly. Great video but i am against of what he said in the beginning. The pronunciation of modern Greek with ancient Greek are the same. The point is that he couldn't pronounce the words correctly. Regardless this huge mistake the video was really pleasant.
Because Έλληνες sounds way cooler!
It sure does.
0:33 just because you spoke my language i am liking the video, nice pronunciation
Ευχαριστώ
Another fantastic video!! Keep up the good work
Thanks! Will do!
I am always impressed by your pronounciation, both in Ancient, but also in Modern Greek, which few people get right. Also, the most detailed explanation I have heard, or read, so far. Excellent work! BTW, the phrase "φίλε μου" (file mou) in Modern Greek is kind of "tongue in cheek" if you know what I mean. Unless you were doing it on purpose...
You should go to Greece and make videos talking ancient Greek to modern Greeks.
REAL
Hahaha...with Erasmian pronunciation!!! 🤣🤣🤣 That would be funny. We don't gonna get a word.
Great idea, but he must use modern pronunciation, or it will be a failure.
@@vanmars5718he should wear armor before talking to a Greek in Ancient Greek with the Erasmian pronunciation
@@vanmars5718 We wont get a word because the Erasmian pronunciation is a Frankenstein creation by a Dutch guy, meant for Germanic rich kids that were taught ancient Greek. Its impossible to speak like that, without breaking something in your mouth 😂
You have a great sense of humor, Luke! Love you and your videos!
Glad you like them!
Korea is from the old name Koryo or Goryeo, shortening of Goguryeo. Japan and Nihon are related, alongside Jepang, Riben, and Ilbon - all go back to Middle Chinese *ndjit-pon (yes, the Japanese use an exonym to refer to themselves).
As for the Germans, we call them mutes (Nemci) that live in mute land (Nemčija), but in Russian, they live in Germaniya.
And there is one romance language that refers to the Germans with their endonym - Italian which uses tedeschi which is related to Deutsch / theodisci, but the country is Germania.
Also Russia and Russians have some exonyms - to the Finns, they are Venelainen living in Venaja, in Estonian, they are Venelane living in Venemaa, and to the Latvians, they are Krievi living in Krievija (from the Krivichi tribe).
GREEKS ALSO CALL THEMSELVES , ROMEOI = ROMANS IN ENGLISH .
Me encantó tu vídeo. Lo explicas muy bien. :)
I can see why Alexander the Great would have wanted to go east rather than west. It seems like all the impressive civilizations and wealth were in that direction then.
You’re right of course, my comment was facetious
Συγχαρητήρια πολύ ωραία δουλειά
Ευχαριστώ!
Sempre video fighissimi, bravo Luchino, grazie dell'ottima spiegazione.
Grazie a te per aver guardato!
Wow, great video! I love it!🎉 Keep up the good work!
Very informative video. Great job!
In Neo-Aramaic we still say "Ionian". "Yawnoyo" or in eastern dialect "Yawnaya".
That’s amazing
In Turkish it is Yunan
As far as I know (and several people mentioned this below), a version of Hellas is used by Mandarin and Cantonese speakers (and Norwegians, but that's modern). But also by Vietnamese speakers: Hy Lap.
always wondered about this topic. great video 👍👍👍
Wow. very informative as usual!
your videos are really amazing. I admire your content. Greetings from Argentina!
Muchísimas gracias, amigo
Engrossing etymology! The Coptic one was especially mind-blowing. Lovely video!!!
Thanks, my friend! Yea, Coptic is very cool; it yields a lot of revelatory things with respect to Greek and Latin.
@@polyMATHY_Luke other examples?
New subscriber - was fun to watch.
Welcome! Thanks for the comment.
Great video, fun work.
❤thanks a lot ❤ from HELLINIDA
Also, I forgot to mention....I loved the quote at the end. Alexander going west instead east is one of my favorite "What If" situations as the world would have been a very different place had Greece conquered the west and held long on enough to either become the dominant culture....or...been the dominant culture when Rome started its expansion.
Considering the Copy-Paste Policy of the Romans, the only difference would probably be that the Hellenic Language would have remained more prominent, if it took the same Historical Course, that is…
There is No-Way that Alexandros would go West AT THAT TIME, there was nothing of Value Civilization-Wise to take over, PLUS he was avenging ΕΛΛΑΣ for all the Wrong-doings against it. But, of course, he wasn’t Greek 🤡
Alexander would have never gone west for a number of reasons:
1. Lack of motivation in the united Greek army since the excuse for the campaign was retaliation for the Persian invasion of Greece 80 years ago.
2. A degree of fascination about the Eastern cultures as Greeks had travelled and had been spiritually influenced by India (i.e Pythagoras travel to india and his subsequent re-incarnation beliefs , even mythological references of Dionysus and Hercules having travelled to India)
3. A drive to spread and infuse greek values and paradigm to people already belonging in complex, sophisticated civilizations and cultures (To this end he built a record number of greek cities throughout the vast empire) .His dialogue with Diogenes the Cynic philosopher is indicative.
Going west presented no challenge in the light of the above and after all Greeks had explored the west since the Bronze Age and had already expanded through trade posts and city -states wherever they thought suitable (along the Meditteranean coast up to Gibraltar)
there are many ''what if'' cases in history.. if Alexander had gone to the west the roman empire would not have appeared..the reason why went to the east is that there was an excuse for what the persians had done before to the greek states and still did in the greek affairs in his time..also east was always more exotic and wealthy and more civilized that period..there were many things to give and take with the people of the east, at least in the fileds of knowledge, civilization, philosophy, military tactics etc etc..
❤Luca , thank you for your work on this channel, great video once again ❤
Ευχαριστώ πολύ, ὤριστε!
First of all congratulations for the video, you really seem to have studied and know a lot ,I learned a lot of things today! Also nice pronunciation.
I have an honest question though. How can we be sure how the ancient Greek was pronounced? I understand that we can make some assumptions but how can we be sure? Right now some words are pronounced differently in different parts of the country, how can we know how they were pronouncing everything in Omiros's times, Periklis time or the Eastern Roman empire period?
The Germanic tribes called Celts "walhos", which came from the name of one Celtic tribe - the Volcae (meaning "the Hawks", from Proto-Celtic word for hawk "ulkos"). The Volcae lived originally to the north-east of the Alps according to Caesar. That's were the Germanics fist came into contact with the Mediterranean world.
All in all, it was common to name the entire nation or ethnos after the first tribe you meet. So Busolt's explanation immediately made sense to me.
The constant 'File Mou' had me laughing 😂
Χαχα
Very nice! Educational and fun.
Super. Learned lots.
I've long been intrigued by the evolution of the Indo-European languages. I've particularly wondered about all those parallels that seem to exist between ancient Greek and Latin in "the West" on the one hand and their eastern contemporaries, especially Sanskrit on the Indo-Gangetic plain and (the less well-documented) Avestan of the Iranian plateau.
Any chance you could do an East-West comparison at some point?
Very interesting video as always , I will only add that in early 19th century Greek the French people was often referred as "φραντσέζοι " ( frantzezoi - Franks) while the Europeans was often collectively called " Φράγκοι" ( also Franks) 😏
Napoleon effect?
Είναι αλήθεια! The "Frank" term goes back to the Middle Ages, I believe.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Yes, alongside the term Λατίνοι for the Latin speakers of the West. Things went worse after the partition of the Roman Empire on the aftermath of 1204. And we actually named the entire period of Frankish rule as Φραγκοκρατία.
@@GranSinderesis maybe, I mean the Greek revolution was heavily influenced by the French one, many Greek intellectuals of the period was coming from the diaspora - spoke French and was often translating terms with a very literal way
Οχι φραγκοι αλλα κουτοφραγκοι 😂
Εξαιρετικός και πάλι! Υπέροχο μάθημα ιστορίας.
Marvelous and expertly explained episode, as always.
I ESPECIALLY enjoyed your🕺“dancing”🕺at the end, even though your movements were not synchronized with the music🤣😂🤣🥰
You know a lot.I am impressed.Keep going.F course i subscribed
Very kind. Welcome!
By far the best quality research on the topic done in this video. Please keep going focusing on greek culture where it all began
Very kind!
Regarding Homer, there is the heretic view that Troyans were also Greek, and that is the reason that the poet speaks not of Greeks but of the various tribes, because Troyans were also a greek tribe. This sounds reasonable, because the greek gods are divided among the two parties, the heroes speak to each other without the need of translator, and several more cultural similarities. Thus, the lack of the name Greaci or Hellenes at the Epics is reasonable.
The Trojans speak Greek in Homer in the way aliens speak English in Doctor Who. Convenience. In reality they spoke some variety of Hittite or similar.
@@Joanna-il2ur have you ever seen deities of one people support their opponents? Did Jupiter support Germani or did Osiris support the Babylonians? Did the Galatians have temples of Hekate? Yet in the Epics, they did. Hmm...
@@ArisTsag Because Homer if he existed lived 500 years later and made most of it up.
@@miastupid7911 Everything. Please don’t confuse mythology with truth. At the time the Iliad is set, the supreme god of ‘Greece’ was Poseidon, not Zeus. Apollo(n) was an Asiatic Plague god, not Greek at all, but was imported in the Greek Dark Ages through trade. As Apollyon, he appears in the Old Testament as a demon. Wilusa (Ilion) was a subject state of the Hittites, and did not speak Greek. Want to tell me what, apart from myth made up long after the event, Is Greek about Troy?
@@ArisTsag Why the much later Greeks made this up, I can’t say, because I’m not a Greek. But there is not a jot of evidence from archaeology that they followed anything we can identify as Greek religious figures. You do realise this is fiction, don’t you?
Awesome video, Luke!
Thanks so much!
man your videos are amazing . good job
Γάλλος is pronounced the same as γάλος which is the masculine for the word that translates to turkey. 🤣😂
(γάλος-γαλοπούλα also known as κούρκος or τούρκος, how crazy is that)
There’s a Greek song called "Ένας Τούρκος στο Παρίσι".
Turkeys as a species didnt exist in europe, they were imported form America. The name γάλος for the bird has probably nothing to do with Γαλλία but with the γλου γλου sound its making
Furthermore, a word often used for turkey in Crete is "κούβα", which sounds exactly like the country of Cuba.
By far the most international bird.
@@joek600 would you wager to take a guess on how exactly they came to be known in Greece? Who do you think imported them 😉
There is διάνος (indian?) too. haha
Greeks call the French Galloi because in Greek Frankoi means "vile Catholic Crusaders," the 4TH Crusade sack of Konstantinoupoli which resulted in the short-lived "Latin Empire" started the era of the "Frankokratia" the "rule of the Franks" the collective term for Roman Catholic Crusaders seens as enemies and betrayers. As "France" would translate as "Frankia" in Greek and not wanting to associate modern France (a Greek ally against the Ottomans in the 1820s war) with the hated Franks Gallia is used.
Another great Point! 👍🏻
Context is great when talking about these things, rather than just some ignorant claims. Love that you wrote this, it makes perfect sense in the greater context of things! 💯
Molto interessante bravo Luke!! 😮❤
Grazie, Ilaria!
As a Greek, I would like to thank you for making videos about our history and language. They are extremely interesting! Thanks again my Friend ( φίλε μου) !
Ευχαριστώ, Ηλία!
Amazing video, greetings from Athens. Ευχαριστούμε! :))
Ευχαριστώ!
Wow what a video! Bravo!
As a Greek I even didn't know some things.
For example I just connected the fact that we were mentioned in Egypt a certain way that it's the same "way" that Turkish call us. (Yunan) 🤯
Ευχαριστώ!
Cool video, and cool place. Il parco degli acquedotti is a very nice park to take a walk
Superb, good job! Gratias tibi pro hac divulgatione.
[I really liked your hexametric recitation at 1:20 by the way...]
Grātiās! Then you’ll really like this rendition of the beginning of the Iliad I recently did on the other channel: czcams.com/video/UQyJGmAn3g8/video.htmlsi=wu2Y8Rgd34bHGhD4
@polyMATHY_Luke Yes, I saw this. It's such a mind-blowing piece of erudition and hard work.
I'm trying to recite here in CZcams some latin hexameters of the Aeneid too. Just ended the two first whole books already. Not easy to find the right rhythm and properly intonation though.
Interesting fact: Greece is "Yunani" in Indonesian pertaining to "Ionia"
Side note: more interesting the word refers to Ionia when the most well known historical Greek figure in South eas Asia is Alexander the Great
I found myself laughing in various occasions in this video when you reffered to modern Greeks teasing them. Im Greek as well. Cracking video and hell of a study, well done.
Ευχαριστώ φίλε μου! Όπως καταλαβαίνεις, είμαι φιλέλληνας, οπότε τα αστεία έχουν καλή πλάκα. Υπάρχουν κάποιοι Έλληνες με τους οποίους έχω ασχοληθεί στα σχόλια και δεν έχουν πολύ ανοιχτό μυαλό και ο «Έλληνας» («φίλε μου») που απευθύνομαι σε αυτό το βίντεο είναι μια καρικατούρα αυτών των ανθρώπων. Ευχαριστώ για το σχόλιο.
That was a fun episode!
Great video. Thanks
As an Englishman, I love exonyms. They remind us that every people are seeing just a slice of the rest of the world, and I think that keeps us humble. No group has a perfect understanding of the wider world and thus by calling a people something they don't call themselves in favour of a term your people picked up or observed, you are acknowledging and respecting the limited nature of cultural knowledge. Kind of like how we make jokes about ourselves to prevent us from believing we're above everyone else.
You could also say that you are demonstrating tribal loyalty by sticking to your culture's language even when describing out-groups, rather than going out of your way to sound like a member of an outgroup.
Our languages are all different and belong to the native speakers of said language, so compelling others to use your words is no different from robbing any other piece of their language. What your language call something or someone is a reflection of your history and relation to them, for example; the English name for Nihon (Japan) is based on the Chinese name because our culture interacted more and earlier with the Chinese, so as they acted as the lens through which we saw the far east, we adopted their word. Every time an Anglophone uses the word Japan, he unknowingly honours and thanks the Chinese for helping his ancestors learn about her.
I love the Deutsche people but when I speak in my mother tongue, they are Germans to me thanks to the valiant efforts of the Romans to build up where I live, and it's knowledge.
I love the Cymry but as I am English, I will always know them as the Welsh, as my people always knew them as foreigners but neighbours, thus we call them Wallax (foreigners).
I love Iran but because I am not one of their own, it will always be Persia to me, because the ancient civilisations of the Mediterranean have done a great deal more to teach my cultural ancestors about that part of the world than the descendants of the Aryans who live there now.
We use exonyms not as tools to mock those who they apply to, but as a way to honour those who made efforts to teach us of said people, either through peace or war.
I think Achaean sounds coolest of them all! I do wish we still used it at least sometimes 😢
Congratulations for the research and your spirit
Ευχαριστώ, Παναγιώτη!
Thank k you for this video. Excellent and very enlightening! I had often wondered about the origins of "Hellas" and didn't find any satisfactory answers - until now.
I would've liked to see your two cents on the third exonym there is for the Greeks, "Saberdzneti" in Georgian
Does it really mean something like: "The Wise Ones", or something of that sort?
Although Graikos -Greek is an ancient name of Hellenes too.
Indeed, that is what this video is about.
Does anyone even watch before commenting?
He says it in the video! The whole random: "Thanks to the Romans" quotes in the video are for Roman Bug-A-Boo Sensationalism, we gave you your names, but let me explain it later more in Context..😅
"You think you named the Whole World"…. A VERY DATED stereotypical view on Modern Greeks…which subtly & indirectly tries to diminish the Hellenes as the Graeculi that they are (& always have been). -But we need them because without them our story doesn’t make sense. Add them into our narrative, but take Jabs at them & never EVER refer to them as the ROMIOI…big NO NO by the Followers of the Millenia+ Old Charlamagnic Propaganda Machine! 🤡
@@dirtyharry1881 Yes it was me this one hahah. I feel enthusiasm whan i see a video from polymath and i am in a hurry up..
Ευχαριστούμε!
excellent humor 😊😉
What is this accent you are using when you read original ancient text? Is it accurate and if yes how do you know it?
Wasn't that the Star Trek episode where they speak solely in stories? Will pay money if someone can map all the classical and literary references they must have used throughout. ❤🤩 Thank you for catching the one!
That’s the one! Oh that’s a good idea. Maybe I’ll try that.
Most of them sound like Homeric type references, or Old Testament type.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Oh, yes, please!!
Ah the nostalgia! Sitting in a class having my Latin teacher at school explaining why the word Danaos was used in the phrase 'timeo Danaos et dona ferentes' - we had to translate it 'I fear the Greeks even bearing gifts' never Beware the Greeks.....
We have a feminine name " Danae - Tha na ee " in modern Greek, and it sounds and is a very beautiful name 😊
'Deucalion' is one of my absolute favorite masculine names, going all the way back to my teen years. My husband is a philosopher (by graduate and undergraduate degrees), and he had a long tradition of naming his pets after Greek philosophers (Thales, Sokrates). He's also an army officer (his specialty in philosophy is Just War Theory), so it took very little convincing for our latest German Shepherd to be named after a certain highly mythologized warlord (Dionysius of Halicarnassus doesn't mention a flood, so much as a wave of conquest). 🙃
Granted, our pup goes by 'Duke' in ordinary conversation (bit stereotypical for his breed), but he only comes running if we call him by his full name. 🥰 I think he hears it better.
When I was learning Greek in school, καθαρεύουσα και δημοτική, was what I learned. I remember using the Δοτική (κλίση οθσιαστικών) and we were expected to write in καθαρεύουσα. When in grade 6, we started learning Homeric Greek and studied the Peloponnesean Wars by Θουκιδίδης. Being the nerd that I am, I was facsinated by it all and one thing that was not only unique, was the polytonic orthography, in and of itself a history of the word right before your eyes. You never mention the effect of this polytonic system on pronounciation and phonetics. For example, the δασεία και ψιλή were there to denote a letter no longer used. Can you elaborate on this?
There might be another reason why we use "Γαλλία" and "Γάλλοι" for France and the French respectively.
During the Middle Ages, the name "Φράγκοι" (Franks) was used in the Byzantine Empire to refer not specifically to this particular Germanic people inhabiting what today is France, but to all Western Europeans collectively (it obviously helped - or didn't help - that all Western Europeans were Catholic at the time, in contrast to the Byzantine Greeks being Orthodox). So it was either Franks or Latins and it meant not only French, but also Italians, Spanish, Catalans etc. You can see it in the fact that the period following the Sack of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 is refered to in Greek historiography as "Λατινοκρατία" ("the rule of Latins") but even more commonly as "Φραγκοκρατία" ("the rule of the Franks"). And that sort of thing has persisted into fairly recent times: One of the most famous urban folk / "rembetiko" songs of the Interwar period is "Φραγκοσυριανή" by the great Markos Vamvakaris, literally "Frankish woman of Syros" - however, that character has nothing to do with France or even Western Europe, that term simply means "Catholic woman of Syros".
So I suspect that once Greece had gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire, it was necessary to come up with a separate term for the French, to avoid confusion with the more broadly used term "Franks" - or perhaps even to discard the negative connotations of the term Franks, who were always seen as those who betrayed / abandoned / ruined the Byzantine Greeks. Thus, we resorted to the name of the ancient tribe of the Gauls to refer to our new "friends" in France.
Just to be clear, it's just a theory. But I think it's an interesting one.
The term "Galloi" and "Gallia" has been used by the Greeks in the modern context for the Kingdom of France and the French since the 13th-14th centuries AD, if not earlier. It was just a classicistic / archaic / poetical name for the people, just like how we used to call Serbians as "Tribaloi", Bulgarians as "Turks", Turks as "Persians", Arabs as "Hagarenes" and "Ismailites", Croatians as "Illyrians" and Italians as "Ausonians".
@@paulmayson3129 Interesting thoughts, thanks
Another amazing video. The level of research is evident. And deep.
Thanks so much, Gregory! I am really grateful for your generosity. Indeed, I got so fascinated by the strange history, and ultimately that the "original" name for the Greeks seems an unsolvable mystery, that I kept researching for weeks until I hit dead ends. Still, a very enjoyable process.
Είχα "ξεχάσει" πόσο δύσκολα είναι τα αρχαία ελληνικά.
Ευχαριστώ για την υπενθύμιση. ☺️
Υπέροχο το βίντεο.
Πόσο χρόνο σου πήρε η ερευνα;.
Ευχαριστώ πολύ! Αυτά τα θέματα αποτελούν μέρος της συνεχιζόμενης έρευνάς μου, αλλά αφιέρωσα δύο εβδομάδες ειδικά στην έρευνα για αυτό το βίντεο.