I've been watching your videos for about a year, and this is the finest sound of all those other woods I've heard. Not to mention stunningly beautiful. I can hardly wait to see the end build and hear the tones.
Thanks for bringing this beauty to us as part of your genuinely engaging tonewood series. I have to say, for me, that Madagascar Rosewood is simply in a class of its own! Absolutely, I can hear the similarities with cocobolo, but i think the Madi raises the bar even further. The sustain, note variety, clarity and projection is stunning... music to my ears. Every tap provides an alternative voice and additional experience. This is the exact encounter I had when tap-toning the Madagascar for my guitar build - a beautiful small bodied, 12 fret wonder. Paired with an incredibly tight grained Cedar, the guitar presents a beautiful tonal balance with crisp fundamentals supported by smooth overtones. The argument for acquiring and working with this beautiful tonewood does need to be balanced. The tree has been over exploited for many years and for various uses. Due to the growth timescale - some 50 years - a harvesting programmer is badly needed for sustainability. The practicalities of our generation benefitting from this is limited, but other generations will. So, should we be using it and adding to the problem? In very limited and controlled numbers, yes. If countries did not overexploit the harvesting then it would be manageable. Madi is used for many purposes - furniture in particular. However, I believe when it’s used to build a guitar it brings the wood/tree back to life and the wood itself continues to live through its vibrational and sonic frequencies. This, in turn, provides, not just incredibly engaging musical experience, but for many of us, it provides a vehicle for meditation and mindfulness, which transcends the boundaries of its physical presence. So, for guitar building, I think we need a measured and valued approach to acquire and use Madi in a limited and treasured capacity. Really enjoyed this episode Tom... cheers. K.
It is difficult to say - the cedar is warmer than the spruce and reacts well to a lighter touch - but it depends on the spruce you choose… one option is to consider redwood or sinker redwood - this will provide a nice balance between the warmth of the cedar and the brightness of spruce - worth considering. I would not put the visual aesthetic before the required tonal quality you’re looking for - an alpine spruce might be worth some consideration too? It really is a difficult decision and weighs heavily on your required tonal quality and voicing - go over your expected outcome with Steve and Balázs and see what they advise… The cedar on my guitar is very tight grained and often resembles a redwood in tonal quality - not an easy choice but the spruce will contrast well too😊👍
I bought a Sigma OM 28 Madagascar style guitar just recently. The sound is crystal clear and punchy if that makes any sense. My two high end Martin and Bourgois guitars are taking a rest in their cases right now. The cheapo Sigma is so inspiring that it led me out of my comfortable muscle memory zone right into new discoveries. The strings doesn't seem to dull out at all it seems. Very sweet w. silvery highs in the spectrum. I bought a similar Sigma w. Madagascar for a girl friend a few years ago. It was very nice sounding as well. I thought it was a lucky coincident, but now I learned that Madagascar RW is definitely the trick I love.
Hello Tommy, Been watching your woody reviews for years, great stuff! Question for you: is there more than 1 type/species of Madagascar Rosewood or is there just the one type that we guitar players are crazy about? Thanks, Craig
Love the complexity of tone of the one Madagascar I've played - and I applaud your efforts as a luthier to use old stock & educate people about the importance of saving this beautiful species.
Tom, thanks for speaking so directly about the sustainability issues with Malagasy industrial products. Let's hope meaningful and massive reforestation efforts can get underway and these bio-regions can someday produce sustainable crops of Dalbergia.
As a young new builder, I’d like to start my career with consideration of the sustainability of the worlds great tonewood. Your videos are helping me understand that!
Great video on the MadRose, Tom! I have a CS-Bluegrass-2016 that has VTS (torrefied) Adirondack top and braces, with Guatemalan Rosewood back and sides. It's a very resonant guitar.
Mind blown at 2:04 tap tone outta this world. All “wood lovers” should watch an episode of Curb your enthusiasm where Larry David gets accused of not being a lover of wood.
That Madagascar is beautiful but what I can't stand on any guitar is Sap wood going do the middle. How do you feel about using sap wood. I'd rather have the heart of the wood. I know it's been the fashion to use sap wood but it just winds me up when paying thousands. No more sap wood, 🛑. Beautiful guitar's to. Dean 🇬🇧 🙏 ❤️
I love MadRose myself and I'm planning to get a custom build soon. In your opinion, do you prefer it paired with Euro or Adi spruce for fingerstyle playing. Thanks.
Hi Andrew, very much depends on the subtleties of your playing style but you can’t go far wrong with either for finger style. Euro over rosewood is a firm favourite here, the guitar ‘Elena’ I mention in this video is a good example of why I like the combo. I’d be happy to discuss this further with you. Shoot me an email, info@tomsandsguitars.com 🙌
Madagascar Rosewood is all stolen from national parks. It is not sustainable. It's not planted in plantations like Teak. The lemurs and other unique wildlife are severely impacted by logging. czcams.com/video/uRboa1fBf4s/video.html
I think we should work more on plantations, but not fast grow the trees, i know it will take ages for trees to grow but better w8 that much time then destroying such a magical wood
How does this compare to African Blackwood (which I am absolutely in love with)? I'm looking for a tone similar to what I hear from the guy on the left in this video but not at $10,000. czcams.com/video/EYNtmeQzeHI/video.html
Perhaps adding a £10-20K premium on top of your price to support bonafide efforts in Madagascar to grow, protect and manage this species. Judging from the tap tone this is going to be a rare and valuable instrument.
I have a more pragmatic view of rarer Rosewoods on guitars. In that, the boutique guitar market is not the issue and it is unlikely the big producers Gibson Fender Ibanez add which one you like here are about to be slapping Mada Rosewood on 10's of's 1000 guitars every year. The big issue and one that affects so many great countries is the grinding poverty with 90+% living on $2 dollars a day. Madagascar has the potential to be one of the most fascinating environmental tourist locations in the world but trying to win an election with a grand plan of turning your country into a thriving eco-tourism destination when on a small island over 1 million people cannot feed themselves is hardly going to happen and if it does it will be a generational thing. The huge issue with all Rosewood is the wealthy Chinese business population seizing on it as a symbol of wealth and power and coating their luxury homes and offices in ridiculous volumes of the stuff. Combine that with failing economics, politics, corruption and a little money means whole forests are chopped down and illegally loaded into containers. I also wonder how much of the retail price of mada rosewood for sale through luthier supplies see's its way back into the local population when even mediocre Back and sides are sold for £200-300 a set. So changing all that is really not a job the average guitar builder can affect by boycotting a product. So as long as the wood is obtained legally through Cites export then I would feel fine about using and owning a guitar made from it. The change can only be brought about and something like the more sustainable approach Bob Taylor brought about with the Gabon Project when a country can meet its primary needs of feeding its population until that time CITES regulation on import is the best we can hope for.
The population of Madagascar has more than doubled in the last 40 years and is projected to nearly triple in the next 40 years. The population is making their own problems by not using birth control. There is NO legal Madagascar Rosewood harvesting.The rosewood trade has been illegal for decades. While the majority of the rosewood exported goes to China (where else?), you still have to take responsibility for buying a guitar made of it. czcams.com/video/uRboa1fBf4s/video.html
You do not see many people wearing fur coats any more these days. Because they provide a feeling of embarrassment. Same will apply to guitars made from exotic woods of endangered species once a wider audience will become aware of the issue. Sound is not everything, and if a luthier or a guitar company cannot build great sounding guitars from more sustainable woods, expensive and rare woods will probably not help either.
Thanks so much for commenting! I'm not sure the fur coat argument is quite the right one to draw but I totally see what you're driving at. The majority of folk are well aware of the problems associated with deforestation, the issue is that it isn't happening 'at home'. Ultimately, the main reason for or causes of deforestation isn't the small shop Luthier. There are much bigger problems that need addressing, such as slash and burn practices for industrial agriculture, meat production and extractive industry. That being said, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I don't think the solution is to completely stop using natural products, especially ones which are fundamentally renewable. I think a balanced approach is needed and I think education is a key component. Regulation needs to be implemented and adhered to such as happens in India with rosewood and Indonesia with ebony. I believe there are sustainable options beyond outright bans. I agree with you that if a Luthier doesn't know how to handle their materials and produce a great sounding guitar then rosewoods et al won't help much. To many, myself included, sound isn't everything, but it IS a massive component, especially at the very top of the market. So, all things considered, it's complicated! the conflict is real and I will continue to find a workable, reasonable solution. Thanks again for taking the time to watch the video and leave you opinion, I do appreciate it!
@@TomSandsGuitars Thank you for your long answer. I was actually a bit worried that my words might have been a bit too harsh or impolite. So, please excuse, no offence intended. I am living in Germany, and last summer, we have lost almost all spruce due to three years of draught and bark beetle plague. The forests of my childhood look horrible and it will take decades to reforest with less sensitive sorts of trees. We are used to take it for granted that woods of all kind is always and will always be available, and do not give lots of thoughts neither to climate change nor excessive exploitation and deforestation. It is shocking to see wasteland where once was beautiful forest. I have read a bit about Cites regulations and learned that they were mitigated recently on behalf of tonewoods. The argument is, if I understand it correctly, that the demand for tonewoods covers only a small part of the huge amounts that would normally go into the furniture industry. You are right that the small shop luthier is not the problem. It is okay to buy a guitar with Madagascar rosewood but one should be aware of its value. But I also appreciate it that some artists make a statement by choosing so called sustainable woods for their signature guitars that they play on stage. I have to admit that myself, I am not as consequent as I could be. I have started playing guitar again last year after 35 years or so, and I bought some new guitars that were not explicitly labelled as sustainable. I fact, the ones who were either did not please me or were not within my budget. Just recently, I have found your channel, and I follow the tonewood episodes. It is interesting for me as someone who currently rediscovers the acoustic guitar. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!
“Sound is not everything…”. Two issues here. What woods give the best sound and what to use and why. The vagaries of wood are such that we cannot always predict the sound in guitars. Luthiers eventually know and prefer certain combinations of woods. Customers end up having preferences, too. Most of the exotic and beautiful tone woods for guitar backs are endangered. Those of us who are lucky enough to own guitars of Brazilian Rosewood would never be embarrassed because the woods are endangered. If special woods generate the best sound then that is everything that is important to me.
Madagascar is a third world country with a low standard of living. Lots of problems exist there before any improvement is possible. When it comes to tonewoods I side with the notion that only musical instruments benefit from such woods because of the inherent sound qualities as well as being visually beautiful. Therefore, exceptions must be made for such tonewoods and luthiers should get preference to supplies over furniture makers. Seems to me acquiring more such wood would be a good idea. Most of us who own rosewood guitars do not feel any guilt for possessing such wonderful guitars.
When all the rosewood has been harvested, what then? Anybody who uses any Madagascar Rosewood should feel guilty. Lemurs and other unique critically endangered species are dependent on those trees. Why should luthiers get an exemption?
I've been watching your videos for about a year, and this is the finest sound of all those other woods I've heard. Not to mention stunningly beautiful. I can hardly wait to see the end build and hear the tones.
Just picked up a 2012 Martin Custom Shop 00-21 made with this wood. It's pretty killer in every way!
Yes!
Thanks for bringing this beauty to us as part of your genuinely engaging tonewood series. I have to say, for me, that Madagascar Rosewood is simply in a class of its own! Absolutely, I can hear the similarities with cocobolo, but i think the Madi raises the bar even further. The sustain, note variety, clarity and projection is stunning... music to my ears. Every tap provides an alternative voice and additional experience. This is the exact encounter I had when tap-toning the Madagascar for my guitar build - a beautiful small bodied, 12 fret wonder. Paired with an incredibly tight grained Cedar, the guitar presents a beautiful tonal balance with crisp fundamentals supported by smooth overtones.
The argument for acquiring and working with this beautiful tonewood does need to be balanced. The tree has been over exploited for many years and for various uses. Due to the growth timescale - some 50 years - a harvesting programmer is badly needed for sustainability. The practicalities of our generation benefitting from this is limited, but other generations will.
So, should we be using it and adding to the problem? In very limited and controlled numbers, yes. If countries did not overexploit the harvesting then it would be manageable. Madi is used for many purposes - furniture in particular. However, I believe when it’s used to build a guitar it brings the wood/tree back to life and the wood itself continues to live through its vibrational and sonic frequencies. This, in turn, provides, not just incredibly engaging musical experience, but for many of us, it provides a vehicle for meditation and mindfulness, which transcends the boundaries of its physical presence. So, for guitar building, I think we need a measured and valued approach to acquire and use Madi in a limited and treasured capacity. Really enjoyed this episode Tom... cheers. K.
Thanks for your considered and detailed response, Kevin! I think I'm inclined to agree with your sentiments.
It is difficult to say - the cedar is warmer than the spruce and reacts well to a lighter touch - but it depends on the spruce you choose… one option is to consider redwood or sinker redwood - this will provide a nice balance between the warmth of the cedar and the brightness of spruce - worth considering. I would not put the visual aesthetic before the required tonal quality you’re looking for - an alpine spruce might be worth some consideration too? It really is a difficult decision and weighs heavily on your required tonal quality and voicing - go over your expected outcome with Steve and Balázs and see what they advise… The cedar on my guitar is very tight grained and often resembles a redwood in tonal quality - not an easy choice but the spruce will contrast well too😊👍
I bought a Sigma OM 28 Madagascar style guitar just recently. The sound is crystal clear and punchy if that makes any sense. My two high end Martin and Bourgois guitars are taking a rest in their cases right now. The cheapo Sigma is so inspiring that it led me out of my comfortable muscle memory zone right into new discoveries. The strings doesn't seem to dull out at all it seems. Very sweet w. silvery highs in the spectrum. I bought a similar Sigma w. Madagascar for a girl friend a few years ago. It was very nice sounding as well. I thought it was a lucky coincident, but now I learned that Madagascar RW is definitely the trick I love.
Hello Tommy,
Been watching your woody reviews for years, great stuff!
Question for you: is there more than 1 type/species of Madagascar Rosewood or is there just the one type that we guitar players are crazy about?
Thanks,
Craig
Love the complexity of tone of the one Madagascar I've played - and I applaud your efforts as a luthier to use old stock & educate people about the importance of saving this beautiful species.
Complexity is exactly the right word. Perhaps I'll set up a more detail oriented mics to capture the full effect in a future video.
Tom, thanks for speaking so directly about the sustainability issues with Malagasy industrial products. Let's hope meaningful and massive reforestation efforts can get underway and these bio-regions can someday produce sustainable crops of Dalbergia.
I really do hope so, I surely has to be possible!
Any experience with Dalbergia Maritima (Bois de Rose)? How does it compare tonally to other Dalbergia from Madagascar?
Thanks, John
Gig Harbor, WA
The holy grail
As a young new builder, I’d like to start my career with consideration of the sustainability of the worlds great tonewood. Your videos are helping me understand that!
So glad this is useful for you!
I own a Sigma SOMR28M,Adirondack top and Maddy back and sides.Only 12 we’re made,the sound is outstanding
Nice!
Holy Smokesssssss what a sound........Thumbs-up Tommy
I have a handmade guitar, Madagascar Rosewood and Torrified Swiss Moon Spruce and is just lovely
I'd love to hear torrefield moon spruce!
Great video on the MadRose, Tom! I have a CS-Bluegrass-2016 that has VTS (torrefied) Adirondack top and braces, with Guatemalan Rosewood back and sides. It's a very resonant guitar.
Very nice!
Interesting. My D28 is Italian Alpine / MadRose and it doesn’t sound like standard Martin dreads.
Where do you get your Madagascar rosewood? I can’t find any pieces like the ones you have in your shop. I’ve only found guitar sets from stewmac.
All over, usually I just Google search and something nice turns up. 🤩
Mind blown at 2:04 tap tone outta this world. All “wood lovers” should watch an episode of Curb your enthusiasm where Larry David gets accused of not being a lover of wood.
yeah its pretty special! I'll definitely have to check this out!
How can I get a qoute on one of your guitars?
Thanks!! I'm really curious about the black limba too =)
I've actually got Will's black limba guitar in the shop!
@@TomSandsGuitars redwood and black limba, so unique ❤️❤️❤️
You could build a guitar with a 3 piece back 2
Maple &1 mad rosewood in centre👍🎸
You could!
That Madagascar is beautiful but what I can't stand on any guitar is Sap wood going do the middle. How do you feel about using sap wood. I'd rather have the heart of the wood. I know it's been the fashion to use sap wood but it just winds me up when paying thousands. No more sap wood, 🛑. Beautiful guitar's to. Dean 🇬🇧 🙏 ❤️
I don’t mind a little bit of sap wood at all, it can be very pretty but I understand why some people don’t like it.
I love MadRose myself and I'm planning to get a custom build soon. In your opinion, do you prefer it paired with Euro or Adi spruce for fingerstyle playing. Thanks.
Hi Andrew, very much depends on the subtleties of your playing style but you can’t go far wrong with either for finger style. Euro over rosewood is a firm favourite here, the guitar ‘Elena’ I mention in this video is a good example of why I like the combo. I’d be happy to discuss this further with you. Shoot me an email, info@tomsandsguitars.com 🙌
@@TomSandsGuitars Thanks for your reply. Let me listen to Elena! I'll do a bit more research, and email you later. Thanks
Hi Tom , I have rosewood dalbergia from madagascar…can u help me looking for buyer?
Drop me an email, info@tomsandsguitars.com 👍
What would be the most sustainable rosewood as of now? How much time does it take for madacascar, mexican, and brazilian rosewoods to fully grow?
Indian Rosewood. At least the government controls the annual auction of Rosewood to only Bona-fide purchasers..
what Alex said!
Madagascar Rosewood is all stolen from national parks. It is not sustainable. It's not planted in plantations like Teak. The lemurs and other unique wildlife are severely impacted by logging. czcams.com/video/uRboa1fBf4s/video.html
Lutz Spruce at some point?
I haven't got any but I certainly would like some!
I think we should work more on plantations, but not fast grow the trees, i know it will take ages for trees to grow but better w8 that much time then destroying such a magical wood
indeed, but its not that simple
How does this compare to African Blackwood (which I am absolutely in love with)? I'm looking for a tone similar to what I hear from the guy on the left in this video but not at $10,000. czcams.com/video/EYNtmeQzeHI/video.html
I got wood from this :)
Lovely to hear!
Wenge next?
Its on the list!
Perhaps adding a £10-20K premium on top of your price to support bonafide efforts in Madagascar to grow, protect and manage this species.
Judging from the tap tone this is going to be a rare and valuable instrument.
yes perhaps! there are many programs like this in place, I will have to research projects in Madagascar.
I have a more pragmatic view of rarer Rosewoods on guitars. In that, the boutique guitar market is not the issue and it is unlikely the big producers Gibson Fender Ibanez add which one you like here are about to be slapping Mada Rosewood on 10's of's 1000 guitars every year. The big issue and one that affects so many great countries is the grinding poverty with 90+% living on $2 dollars a day. Madagascar has the potential to be one of the most fascinating environmental tourist locations in the world but trying to win an election with a grand plan of turning your country into a thriving eco-tourism destination when on a small island over 1 million people cannot feed themselves is hardly going to happen and if it does it will be a generational thing. The huge issue with all Rosewood is the wealthy Chinese business population seizing on it as a symbol of wealth and power and coating their luxury homes and offices in ridiculous volumes of the stuff. Combine that with failing economics, politics, corruption and a little money means whole forests are chopped down and illegally loaded into containers. I also wonder how much of the retail price of mada rosewood for sale through luthier supplies see's its way back into the local population when even mediocre Back and sides are sold for £200-300 a set. So changing all that is really not a job the average guitar builder can affect by boycotting a product. So as long as the wood is obtained legally through Cites export then I would feel fine about using and owning a guitar made from it. The change can only be brought about and something like the more sustainable approach Bob Taylor brought about with the Gabon Project when a country can meet its primary needs of feeding its population until that time CITES regulation on import is the best we can hope for.
Thank you for you thoughtful, intelligent response! I think you're spot on. Thanks for watching!
The population of Madagascar has more than doubled in the last 40 years and is projected to nearly triple in the next 40 years. The population is making their own problems by not using birth control. There is NO legal Madagascar Rosewood harvesting.The rosewood trade has been illegal for decades. While the majority of the rosewood exported goes to China (where else?), you still have to take responsibility for buying a guitar made of it. czcams.com/video/uRboa1fBf4s/video.html
brazilian is quite better at extreme frequencies than madagascar
and if it is not fully oxidized, it looks crappy. but the sound is worth it
You do not see many people wearing fur coats any more these days. Because they provide a feeling of embarrassment. Same will apply to guitars made from exotic woods of endangered species once a wider audience will become aware of the issue. Sound is not everything, and if a luthier or a guitar company cannot build great sounding guitars from more sustainable woods, expensive and rare woods will probably not help either.
Thanks so much for commenting! I'm not sure the fur coat argument is quite the right one to draw but I totally see what you're driving at. The majority of folk are well aware of the problems associated with deforestation, the issue is that it isn't happening 'at home'. Ultimately, the main reason for or causes of deforestation isn't the small shop Luthier. There are much bigger problems that need addressing, such as slash and burn practices for industrial agriculture, meat production and extractive industry. That being said, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
I don't think the solution is to completely stop using natural products, especially ones which are fundamentally renewable. I think a balanced approach is needed and I think education is a key component. Regulation needs to be implemented and adhered to such as happens in India with rosewood and Indonesia with ebony. I believe there are sustainable options beyond outright bans.
I agree with you that if a Luthier doesn't know how to handle their materials and produce a great sounding guitar then rosewoods et al won't help much. To many, myself included, sound isn't everything, but it IS a massive component, especially at the very top of the market. So, all things considered, it's complicated! the conflict is real and I will continue to find a workable, reasonable solution.
Thanks again for taking the time to watch the video and leave you opinion, I do appreciate it!
@@TomSandsGuitars Thank you for your long answer. I was actually a bit worried that my words might have been a bit too harsh or impolite. So, please excuse, no offence intended.
I am living in Germany, and last summer, we have lost almost all spruce due to three years of draught and bark beetle plague. The forests of my childhood look horrible and it will take decades to reforest with less sensitive sorts of trees. We are used to take it for granted that woods of all kind is always and will always be available, and do not give lots of thoughts neither to climate change nor excessive exploitation and deforestation. It is shocking to see wasteland where once was beautiful forest.
I have read a bit about Cites regulations and learned that they were mitigated recently on behalf of tonewoods. The argument is, if I understand it correctly, that the demand for tonewoods covers only a small part of the huge amounts that would normally go into the furniture industry. You are right that the small shop luthier is not the problem. It is okay to buy a guitar with Madagascar rosewood but one should be aware of its value. But I also appreciate it that some artists make a statement by choosing so called sustainable woods for their signature guitars that they play on stage.
I have to admit that myself, I am not as consequent as I could be. I have started playing guitar again last year after 35 years or so, and I bought some new guitars that were not explicitly labelled as sustainable. I fact, the ones who were either did not please me or were not within my budget.
Just recently, I have found your channel, and I follow the tonewood episodes. It is interesting for me as someone who currently rediscovers the acoustic guitar. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!
@@thomasgaida7174 not at all, i totally appreciate where you're coming from!
“Sound is not everything…”. Two issues here. What woods give the best sound and what to use and why. The vagaries of wood are such that we cannot always predict the sound in guitars. Luthiers eventually know and prefer certain combinations of woods. Customers end up having preferences, too. Most of the exotic and beautiful tone woods for guitar backs are endangered. Those of us who are lucky enough to own guitars of Brazilian Rosewood would never be embarrassed because the woods are endangered. If special woods generate the best sound then that is everything that is important to me.
Madagascar is a third world country with a low standard of living. Lots of problems exist there before any improvement is possible. When it comes to tonewoods I side with the notion that only musical instruments benefit from such woods because of the inherent sound qualities as well as being visually beautiful. Therefore, exceptions must be made for such tonewoods and
luthiers should get preference to supplies over furniture makers. Seems to me acquiring more such wood would be a good idea. Most of us who own rosewood guitars do not feel any guilt
for possessing such wonderful guitars.
I definitely think a sensible balance needs to be struck. Thanks for watching and commenting, Vince!
When all the rosewood has been harvested, what then? Anybody who uses any Madagascar Rosewood should feel guilty. Lemurs and other unique critically endangered species are dependent on those trees. Why should luthiers get an exemption?