Thank you for all this information, well understanding.🙏🏼
Před 5 lety
Good to see that the Abranet disc (600, 1000) work well on the top coats. My main concern with this whole process is the dust created, so any device that minimises free dust is worth it. Also love the "sound" of the wet sanding at the end :-)
Robert, I'm using the Crystalac products for my first acoustic guitar refinish. Took the bad black paint job down to wood and sealed it first. Following your videos I'm now at the point where I've built up a nice top coat of gloss and ready for final leveling and wet sanding (?). Two questions: 1. Can I use a sanding disk on my drill to do the dry sanding? 2. I don't have a buffing wheel. Can I use a wool pad on my drill's sanding disc? Thanks for making such great videos!
Thanks for sharing how this base & finish work. Very interesting. Like to find someone in Australia who can put a new back on my Maton 12 string & fix a raised front, probably from some previous owner leaving it in a hot car, I don't know. Cheers from Oz
FYI! TCP Global makes a tack cloth, for use with the “Auto Air” waterborne finishes used in automotive finishes. I used their “Candy2o” translucent s to finish a guitar pedal. Their tack cloth, which they claim is silicone and wax free, worked flawlessly. I also used this prior to this with “Varethane”’s (I think) water based clear acrylic top coat on a walnut pedal board, also, flawlessly. I am about to coat an ES335 kit build with “Crystalac Clear High Gloss instrument finish “ and will attempt using these tack cloths on this. I have used them on this build on the sanding sealer and grain fill.
Geat video, and exceptional result. Would you still use grain alcohol again? I have been trying to finish a guitar using your methodology but with spraying instead. I am on my third spray gun - the first was too big, then i switched to an Iwata LPH-80 - 104G. Unfortunately the nozzle and aircap needed to be the larger version so I got the 124-G (I know spending too much lol). I am still getting orange peel likely due to novice error, but I think thinning the Brite Tone would help. You mentioned 10-20% grain alcohol in the video and comments below, as well you said Crystalac recommended straight water. I was surprised they didnt recommend the reducer/retarder they sell. Would you still use alcohol again?
Really appreciate your videos. Always happy to keep learning more on building guitars. I have decided to give this product a try and purchase the filler, sealer and topcoat for this guitar. One question. In this video you apply the wood filler before applying the sanding sealer. Several others suggest doing it in the opposite order. Is this specific to this product or does it make a difference?
I think I’m gonna try this on my 0-28 herringbone I’m gonna be starting on this fall. That’s a beautiful finish Robert,was that just the Luthiers Mercantile Crystalac products or did you fill/seal those billets before hand with something else?
I haven't had nearly as much success with this. I can't get rid of brush marks, even though I don't actually use a brush. I added the reducer/retarder, and it still flashes off and tacks up before it has a chance to flow out and level. Since subsequent coats don't melt through to the lower coat, defects in lower coats show through in the top coat. I do like the ease of use, and it takes tinting well.
Thank you for the videos Robert. You do so much for the community. You mentioned here that you used a LMI wood filler. I have seen you use shellac and wood powder to pore fill as well as a product called Zpoxy. Pardon the novice here but could I technically use shellac to seal the wood, then shellac and wood powders to pore fill, then would I still need to use Zpoxy before using Crystalac products like what you have shown? Thanks again! * By the way, you are my first guitar making teacher by the way via your online courses! I'm thinking if I should try to do this full-time but an absolute beginner now.
Thanks!! One question, what if I would like to have a light blue (aniline dye) maple top with high gloss clear coat? Is the amber tone gonna make it greenish sort of? The most easy solution to avoid its do the faster (faster to cure)?
I spray amber colored lacquer over color coats and it doesn't seem to both them. I think you would be okay but always do test pieces before attempting on your project.
Great video, Robert, which I looked at as Crystalac has recently become available here in the UK, and I will certainly try it. One question - at one point in the video you say you thin the Crystalac with ALCOHOL. Is this correct - you can do that with a water-based product? Thanks as always.
@@OBrienGuitars Thank you, Robert. Regrettably my report that Crystalac was available in UK was incorrect. When I explored further, this was on a shill site with a false UK web address. However, there are one or two waterbased products here, which I will try the alcohol thinning method with. Best wishes.
Hi Robert. I tried putting some Lemon Oil on the finish of Clear Satin (on a sample piece of wood) and it really brings out the colour. Do you know whether Lemon Oil might damage the finish or am I okay doing that? P.S. I have noticed that, when Lemon Oil is added, fingernail scratches will show, though they will not penetrate the Clear Satin - so a further application with Lemon Oil removes the fingernail scratches. Really looks great with the Lemon Oil.
Hi Robert, Can I use it to add coating on top of guitar body with polyutrethane finish and without using sanding sealer? I already sanded my top coating and looking for a gloss finish.
I planned on doing a fabric top guitar. Would the sanding sealer make the fabric nice and hard before appying a crystalac top coat? Im needing it tonbe nice and hard on the guitat before appying a finish coat
really good video i goind to try the Crystalac, i have a question, what buffing machine you have Sir, is sen big, i going to buy one but is more tiny is 6" buffer 1/2hp, that is going to make a diference on the final look?
@@OBrienGuitars thanks so much for take your time to respond me message, i was having my doubts about buy or not, becouse it cost 69 dollar, i found some specially for guitar but really really expensive like 600-800 dollar, you know or can recomended a buffing machine for starting in this guitar arts to use and dont be so expensive ?
I brushed this product on my last guitar and found that if I don't level sand between every single coat that it separates into hills and valleys. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks
awesome video as always. I'm definitely sold on this product how much would you recommend to buy for one guitar? also will it work with your Lutherie Wax
OBrienGuitars sorry just one more question. I don’t have any lacquer so when it comes to pore filling could I use either a light coat of the sanding sealer or the top coat to seal the bindings and purflings
@@OBrienGuitars sorry I keep thinking of things later on since you were using a foam brush would it work the same way with a small craft foam paint roller?
Hi Robert. I have applied a top coat of Clear Satin; looks lovely. But I do have a few small air bubbles. Should I rub them back before allowing the finish to cure or after the finish has cured? The instructions say I don't need to do level sanding after curing. Do you agree?
I like for my final coat to go on with no imperfections. This way when I level after curing you have no surprises. If you were able to lay down a smooth level surface when applying the product you may not need to level after curing.
Hi Robert. Sorry to bother you again but the real point of this question was, as I'm using a foam brush to put the top coat on, if I get any bubbles in the final coat should I remove the bubbles before leaving the finish to cure or after the finish has cured. I ask this because I was thinking that doing it before curing would make the bubbles easier to remove (since the coat is still a little soft), but I'm a mere amateur and am learning as I go along using your video as a model. Thanks again for that.
Hi RobertThank you for this very informative and useful video.I have a classical guitar whose sound board I want to protect from nail damage but keep looking matt and feeling like the wood it is made of (I love the feeling of wood).Do you think that CrystaLac Sand Sealer would be robust enough to do this?I could use CrystaLac Brite Tone as a finish. If you don't think the sand sealer would be good enough, what do think the minimum number of coats would be good enough to protect the sound board and not diminish the sound?Thank you in advance.Tony
Nail damage is tough to prevent. I would recommend some type of thin clear pickguard. Crystalac is a good finish but don't count on it completely preventing nail damage.
Hi Robert. I have applied the sand sealer and am now starting to apply Brite Tone. One issue I have had throughout, is air bubbles. I started using a foam brush and then got a high-quality brush, but I still get air bubbles in the finish. Do you have any tips as to how to avoid this issue (I don't have a spray gun)? Is it simply a case of sanding back after each coat to remove the bubbles?
Robert, at time point 14:50, you refer to diluting the Top Coat by 10 or 20% with "grain alcohol". By "grain alcohol" are you referring to "denatured alcohol" (i.e. "wood alcohol"), or a special brew in the O'Brien family "still"? :)
I use grain alcohol that comes form my local liquor store. It is 95% pure alcohol with no additives. Some folks are not able to get this type alcohol and must use the denatured variety. I have talked with the manufacturer of this product since making this video and they recommend using just plain water for diluting.
Be careful diluting "Waterborne Lacquers" from any manufacturer with water. These products are a delicate balance of emulsified solids, alcohol, water and a dozen other additives that have to be in strict proportion to one another for it to live up to standards of clarity and toughness. The only time I add water to a waterborne finish is when evaporation has caused the suspension...and believe it or not, these products are an incredibly fine suspension, to thicken and then add very conservatively.
How many guitars do you think you would get out of a quart pot? I’ve fancied trying this but in the UK it’s almost £100 a quart. Having said that , if it works well it’s probably worth it especially if you don’t have a spray booth
I painted my guitar with an acrylic design. Impossible to sand down before applying crystalac. Will this adhere without the sanding? Also, dont have a sprayer so I would be applying with foam brush. Your.thoughts?
Would you use Crystalac Brite Tone for the soundboard? I have used this to finish my electric guitars and am familiar with it, but I was hoping to use it on my new acoustic build.
@@OBrienGuitars I was planning on using zpoxy finishing resin on the sides and back. Would you recommend this or go with the crystalac grain filler? I have used both.
For hand sanding I used Norton 320. When power sanding I used Festool paper 220 and 320 grit. I also used P600 and P1000 Mirka sanding discs. For final leveling I used 1200 wet/dry and then the buffing wheel.
Robert, I just finished a steel string acoustic using the procedure in this video. I wet sanded from 800 to 1000, 1500 and 2000. I buffed with Menzerna medium then fine. I cannot seem to get the glass-like finish that you did but I have always had that problem which tells me I'm doing something wrong in the process. Is there a common mistake people tend to make?
I’d never have attempted any finishing if it wasn’t for a clear and understandable tutorial like this. I sweat bullets because I’m about to do an African Blackwood guitar, but I don’t think that Crystal Lac waterborne should be any more of a problem than some people’s perceptions.
What product is there WITHOUT the amber finish? I really hate that yellow finish. Seems like the guitar has aged (in a really bad way... unless you are going for that weathered look or a nice sunburst). I'm looking to do a beautiful blue or purple and want to keep that "fresh" look. Thanks.
@@OBrienGuitars I know you are a very busy man, but I asked it it had a smell! I know that sanding sealer is amber, because I watched the video twice, paying strict attention. I know you didn't mention anything about odor. BTW- I have learned so much from you. Thanks Robbie!
@@wildwall só sorry. I read odor and my brain understood color. I didn't notice any foul odor while working with this product. I didn't even have a window open.
Lightly wet the wood to start with lightly sand it wont raise the grain while you are applying finish ask me how I know I used a lot of water-based stains and I refinished grand pianos for over 40 years also water-based finish will never be as good as a solvent-based finish and because of the EPA even those are not as good as they used to be but there is a product made by Sherwin-Williams called cab acrylic it is some tough stuff you can hit hit with a hammer you can debt the wood the wood with a hammer you met met the wood but it will not harm the Finish
Can Crystalac, sealer and top coat, be used over shellac? Crystalac says it is designed to be used on raw wood. Raw wood would mean unfilled grain. Their comment is a bit vague. Thank you.
I just bought this product just to try for back and sides of a classical guitar. Probable i will do by brush this is to expensive to use with varnish gun 😎
I am not having my Crystalac sanding sealer dry like yours. It appears to dry quickly but if you try to sand within 8 -10 hours it gums up and plugs the sandpaper. I have yet to get it to powder during sanding. I put it on much thinner than you did (with a foam brush) but it is not drying the same. I am heating house with gas heat and it should be drying much faster. This is my second round with this product. It did the exact same thing with the last tub of this material, that went into the garbage. The Clear Coat was a little better on the last round but I did strip it off because finish, in no way was close to acceptable. As we all know, a lot of work goes into building these guitars and to have to redo a finish on can really raise your anxiety level, not to mention refinishing it always shows somewhere. It is Hard to believe Crystalac made 2 bad batches. I am not interested in a refund from them, I just need it to work as described. Not very pleased with it, again. I am going to give it plenty of time to fully dry because I am determined to be done with nitrocellulose lacquer. I saw you used some water during the clear coat. Did you use some during the sealer application. Thanks for the great info!
I guess the thing to do is give it more time to cure before sanding. Sand with low grit paper too. 220 or even 180 should be fine. Another suggestion is to always work up a sample board or two before trying any finish on your guitar or other project. This way you can dial in the process before do it on a project.
OBrienGuitars Thanks for the response! I will try 12 hours. Hate to go coarser with the sandpaper. Too late to switch to a different product. Thanks again! .
Yes but builders and especially manufacturers have finishing schedules that strictly delineate how much product goes on with each coat, how much gets sanded off between coating sets, and how many cycles of 3 coat/sand sets go into a finish. A Martin Guitar finishing schedule is a page long and results in an incredibly thin but perfect finish. Putting on any instrument finish is a control challenge when it is done with a brush. Spraying where the amount of air, the amount of atomization and the finish flow can be strictly controlled and reproduced on every guitar is the much better way to go.
I have worked with other water based finishes but not on stringed instruments yet but they tend to be harder more scratch resistant finishes. Some of the best hardwood floor finishes are water based polyurethanes.
@@OBrienGuitars Are you still using the UV finishes. I am about to pull the trigger on a UV setup for production work on another wood working business I am tooling up for. Do you see it as a good investment for your work?
Thanks Robert,another great product,I hope we see more videos
Great video! And really convincing results!
Gorgeous final product!
Thank you for all this information, well understanding.🙏🏼
Good to see that the Abranet disc (600, 1000) work well on the top coats. My main concern with this whole process is the dust created, so any device that minimises free dust is worth it. Also love the "sound" of the wet sanding at the end :-)
Great demo. I’m sold.
I hope the manufacturer has the sense to “comp” you a gallon or two for a superb endorsement
Lots of work but a very mirror like outcome, so nice. I’ll try that one of this days. Good learning video. Thanks
There is a reason they call it finish "work". It is a lot of work but the results are gratifying.
Robert, another great video. You are to Luthiery what Bob Ross was to landscape painting.
haha Thank you!! I appreciate the feedback.
Robert, I'm using the Crystalac products for my first acoustic guitar refinish. Took the bad black paint job down to wood and sealed it first. Following your videos I'm now at the point where I've built up a nice top coat of gloss and ready for final leveling and wet sanding (?). Two questions: 1. Can I use a sanding disk on my drill to do the dry sanding? 2. I don't have a buffing wheel. Can I use a wool pad on my drill's sanding disc? Thanks for making such great videos!
Thanks for sharing how this base & finish work. Very interesting. Like to find someone in Australia who can put a new back on my Maton 12 string & fix a raised front, probably from some previous owner leaving it in a hot car, I don't know.
Cheers from Oz
FYI! TCP Global makes a tack cloth, for use with the “Auto Air” waterborne finishes used in automotive finishes. I used their “Candy2o” translucent s to finish a guitar pedal. Their tack cloth, which they claim is silicone and wax free, worked flawlessly. I also used this prior to this with “Varethane”’s (I think) water based clear acrylic top coat on a walnut pedal board, also, flawlessly. I am about to coat an ES335 kit build with “Crystalac Clear High Gloss instrument finish “ and will attempt using these tack cloths on this. I have used them on this build on the sanding sealer and grain fill.
Geat video, and exceptional result. Would you still use grain alcohol again? I have been trying to finish a guitar using your methodology but with spraying instead. I am on my third spray gun - the first was too big, then i switched to an Iwata LPH-80 - 104G. Unfortunately the nozzle and aircap needed to be the larger version so I got the 124-G (I know spending too much lol). I am still getting orange peel likely due to novice error, but I think thinning the Brite Tone would help. You mentioned 10-20% grain alcohol in the video and comments below, as well you said Crystalac recommended straight water. I was surprised they didnt recommend the reducer/retarder they sell. Would you still use alcohol again?
Really appreciate your videos. Always happy to keep learning more on building guitars. I have decided to give this product a try and purchase the filler, sealer and topcoat for this guitar. One question. In this video you apply the wood filler before applying the sanding sealer. Several others suggest doing it in the opposite order. Is this specific to this product or does it make a difference?
You will want to do Sanding Sealer, then Wood Grain Filler after :) Same applies if staining. Stain first, then use grain filler, then topcoat.
I think I’m gonna try this on my 0-28 herringbone I’m gonna be starting on this fall. That’s a beautiful finish Robert,was that just the Luthiers Mercantile Crystalac products or did you fill/seal those billets before hand with something else?
Just the Crystalac product and their sealer under neath it.
Any advice on how to avoid tiny air bubbles when applying with a brush? (I stir gently, never shake.)
I haven't had nearly as much success with this. I can't get rid of brush marks, even though I don't actually use a brush. I added the reducer/retarder, and it still flashes off and tacks up before it has a chance to flow out and level. Since subsequent coats don't melt through to the lower coat, defects in lower coats show through in the top coat. I do like the ease of use, and it takes tinting well.
Thanks for your videos Robbie! Have you tried the Crystalac clear pore filler? Wondering how it compares to Aqua Coat?
Yes, I have experimented with it. It works well. Give it shot and see what you think.
Very helpful thanks. Any problem with so called “witness” lines showing up in the final level sanding and biffing?
I didn't notice any. I aggressively sanded while leveling too.
Thank you for the videos Robert. You do so much for the community. You mentioned here that you used a LMI wood filler. I have seen you use shellac and wood powder to pore fill as well as a product called Zpoxy.
Pardon the novice here but could I technically use shellac to seal the wood, then shellac and wood powders to pore fill, then would I still need to use Zpoxy before using Crystalac products like what you have shown? Thanks again! *
By the way, you are my first guitar making teacher by the way via your online courses! I'm thinking if I should try to do this full-time but an absolute beginner now.
Thanks for the compliment. I would use either shellac and sawdust or epoxy but not both.
@@OBrienGuitars Thank you for the advice!
Thanks!! One question, what if I would like to have a light blue (aniline dye) maple top with high gloss clear coat? Is the amber tone gonna make it greenish sort of? The most easy solution to avoid its do the faster (faster to cure)?
I spray amber colored lacquer over color coats and it doesn't seem to both them. I think you would be okay but always do test pieces before attempting on your project.
Great video, Robert, which I looked at as Crystalac has recently become available here in the UK, and I will certainly try it. One question - at one point in the video you say you thin the Crystalac with ALCOHOL. Is this correct - you can do that with a water-based product? Thanks as always.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Yes. I thinned with alcohol.
@@OBrienGuitars Thank you, Robert. Regrettably my report that Crystalac was available in UK was incorrect. When I explored further, this was on a shill site with a false UK web address. However, there are one or two waterbased products here, which I will try the alcohol thinning method with. Best wishes.
Hi Robert. I tried putting some Lemon Oil on the finish of Clear Satin (on a sample piece of wood) and it really brings out the colour. Do you know whether Lemon Oil might damage the finish or am I okay doing that? P.S. I have noticed that, when Lemon Oil is added, fingernail scratches will show, though they will not penetrate the Clear Satin - so a further application with Lemon Oil removes the fingernail scratches. Really looks great with the Lemon Oil.
I put lemon oil on raw wood, not on finished wood.
Hi Robert, Can I use it to add coating on top of guitar body with polyutrethane finish and without using sanding sealer? I already sanded my top coating and looking for a gloss finish.
I would be reluctant to do that. Adding one type of finish over another is not recommended.
@@OBrienGuitars Thank you very much.
I planned on doing a fabric top guitar. Would the sanding sealer make the fabric nice and hard before appying a crystalac top coat? Im needing it tonbe nice and hard on the guitat before appying a finish coat
I believe it would. However, it is a good idea to always do test pieces before attempting anything on your instrument.
really good video i goind to try the Crystalac, i have a question, what buffing machine you have Sir, is sen big, i going to buy one but is more tiny is 6" buffer 1/2hp, that is going to make a diference on the final look?
I would use one designed for lutherie. They ave a slower RPM and bigger wheels and longer shafts to allow for more clearance.
@@OBrienGuitars thanks so much for take your time to respond me message, i was having my doubts about buy or not, becouse it cost 69 dollar, i found some specially for guitar but really really expensive like 600-800 dollar, you know or can recomended a buffing machine for starting in this guitar arts to use and dont be so expensive ?
@@joserodriguez-uj9po unfortunately those machines are expensive.
@@OBrienGuitars thanks for your help Sir i hope in a future can be able to buy one
I brushed this product on my last guitar and found that if I don't level sand between every single coat that it separates into hills and valleys. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks
Apply light coats with a good quality brush. The brush marks are not bad and I only level between days and not between coats.
awesome video as always.
I'm definitely sold on this product
how much would you recommend to buy for one guitar?
also will it work with your Lutherie Wax
You could do a guitar with a quart and yes, it will work well with my Lutherie wax rubbed out to a satin. Let the finish fully cure first.
OBrienGuitars sorry just one more question.
I don’t have any lacquer so when it comes to pore filling could I use either a light coat of the sanding sealer or the top coat to seal the bindings and purflings
@@juliantaylor7663 yes, I would dilute it 1:1
@@OBrienGuitars sorry I keep thinking of things later on
since you were using a foam brush would it work the same way with a small craft foam paint roller?
@@juliantaylor7663 It would probably create a lot of air bubbles.
Hi Robert. I have applied a top coat of Clear Satin; looks lovely. But I do have a few small air bubbles. Should I rub them back before allowing the finish to cure or after the finish has cured? The instructions say I don't need to do level sanding after curing. Do you agree?
I like for my final coat to go on with no imperfections. This way when I level after curing you have no surprises. If you were able to lay down a smooth level surface when applying the product you may not need to level after curing.
Hi Robert. Sorry to bother you again but the real point of this question was, as I'm using a foam brush to put the top coat on, if I get any bubbles in the final coat should I remove the bubbles before leaving the finish to cure or after the finish has cured. I ask this because I was thinking that doing it before curing would make the bubbles easier to remove (since the coat is still a little soft), but I'm a mere amateur and am learning as I go along using your video as a model. Thanks again for that.
Hi RobertThank you for this very informative and useful video.I have a classical guitar whose sound board I want to protect from nail damage but keep looking matt and feeling like the wood it is made of (I love the feeling of wood).Do you think that CrystaLac Sand Sealer would be robust enough to do this?I could use CrystaLac Brite Tone as a finish. If you don't think the sand sealer would be good enough, what do think the minimum number of coats would be good enough to protect the sound board and not diminish the sound?Thank you in advance.Tony
Nail damage is tough to prevent. I would recommend some type of thin clear pickguard. Crystalac is a good finish but don't count on it completely preventing nail damage.
Thank you for that, Robert. I guess I should use the Brite Tone finish. How many coats do you think would be sufficient?
@@tonyvaughan3094 It depends on youtr application method. Keep it thin but thick enough to level and buff after your final coats
Hi Robert. I have applied the sand sealer and am now starting to apply Brite Tone. One issue I have had throughout, is air bubbles. I started using a foam brush and then got a high-quality brush, but I still get air bubbles in the finish. Do you have any tips as to how to avoid this issue (I don't have a spray gun)? Is it simply a case of sanding back after each coat to remove the bubbles?
@@tonyvaughan3094 try using less product with each pass. Usually the finish will flow out and the bubbles disappear.
Sorry accidently posted before i got the wording corrected
Robert, at time point 14:50, you refer to diluting the Top Coat by 10 or 20% with "grain alcohol". By "grain alcohol" are you referring to "denatured alcohol" (i.e. "wood alcohol"), or a special brew in the O'Brien family "still"? :)
I use grain alcohol that comes form my local liquor store. It is 95% pure alcohol with no additives. Some folks are not able to get this type alcohol and must use the denatured variety. I have talked with the manufacturer of this product since making this video and they recommend using just plain water for diluting.
Be careful diluting "Waterborne Lacquers" from any manufacturer with water. These products are a delicate balance of emulsified solids, alcohol, water and a dozen other additives that have to be in strict proportion to one another for it to live up to standards of clarity and toughness. The only time I add water to a waterborne finish is when evaporation has caused the suspension...and believe it or not, these products are an incredibly fine suspension, to thicken and then add very conservatively.
How many guitars do you think you would get out of a quart pot? I’ve fancied trying this but in the UK it’s almost £100 a quart. Having said that , if it works well it’s probably worth it especially if you don’t have a spray booth
You can do one guitar with a quart
I painted my guitar with an acrylic design. Impossible to sand down before applying crystalac. Will this adhere without the sanding? Also, dont have a sprayer so I would be applying with foam brush. Your.thoughts?
I would level the previous layers before applying the clear topcoats. You can apply with a brush but it is a bit more work than spraying.
I noted you didn't test it on a guitar though. What's your take on tonal affects of this finish?
If applied properly I do not see why it would be any different than any other finishing product on the market when it comes to tonal properties
Hi Robert, can I use this product to mix in with the colour paint to make it shinier
Color doesn't make it shinier. That comes from making it level. You can tint this product though if you want color.
Would you use Crystalac Brite Tone for the soundboard? I have used this to finish my electric guitars and am familiar with it, but I was hoping to use it on my new acoustic build.
When done properly this is a viable choice for a finish.
@@OBrienGuitars I was planning on using zpoxy finishing resin on the sides and back. Would you recommend this or go with the crystalac grain filler? I have used both.
@@docjoe1 Either pore filling product will work.
@@OBrienGuitars many thanks! Very much appreciated!
What brand/type of sandpaper are you using? Crystalac says not to use stearated paper but 3m and Norton are useless to find any grit over 400.
For hand sanding I used Norton 320. When power sanding I used Festool paper 220 and 320 grit. I also used P600 and P1000 Mirka sanding discs. For final leveling I used 1200 wet/dry and then the buffing wheel.
Robert, I just finished a steel string acoustic using the procedure in this video. I wet sanded from 800 to 1000, 1500 and 2000. I buffed with Menzerna medium then fine. I cannot seem to get the glass-like finish that you did but I have always had that problem which tells me I'm doing something wrong in the process. Is there a common mistake people tend to make?
When it doesn't get to a high gloss that means there are still scratches in the finish. I wold keep buffing and see if that works.
@@OBrienGuitars Until today I did not know that P grade sandpaper is more coarse. I believe that is the root of my problem. Thanks Robert.
@@jim9637 Glad you found the information useful.
What do you use to wipe the pore filler after sanding? Water, alcohol, naptha,...? Thanks.
Just wipe it with a paper towel.
not sure if you still have the sample boards,
if you do how are they holding up since the demo
I do and they look fine.
Would this product work over a solid paint base? If so, what type of paint would work?
I suppose you could put it over a base coat. It is always good to do a test piece first though.
I’d never have attempted any finishing if it wasn’t for a clear and understandable tutorial like this. I sweat bullets because I’m about to do an African Blackwood guitar, but I don’t think that Crystal Lac waterborne should be any more of a problem than some people’s perceptions.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching.
I didn't think you could dilute water based products with alcohol. Is it OK to do that with any water based topcoat?
Generally speaking yes but check with the manufacturer of the product you are using.
Robert, I bet your car is so waxed & shiny it blinds other motorists on a sunny day, lol
What product is there WITHOUT the amber finish? I really hate that yellow finish. Seems like the guitar has aged (in a really bad way... unless you are going for that weathered look or a nice sunburst). I'm looking to do a beautiful blue or purple and want to keep that "fresh" look. Thanks.
The sanding sealer has the amber tint but the topcoat does not.
I like it! Does it have any odor?
The sanding sealer does have an amber color.
@@OBrienGuitars I know you are a very busy man, but I asked it it had a smell!
I know that sanding sealer is amber, because I watched the video twice, paying strict attention. I know you didn't mention anything about odor. BTW- I have learned so much from you. Thanks Robbie!
@@wildwall só sorry. I read odor and my brain understood color. I didn't notice any foul odor while working with this product. I didn't even have a window open.
@@OBrienGuitars I do this all the time. I read a query quickly, and answer a question not asked! Thanks Robbie!
Lightly wet the wood to start with lightly sand it wont raise the grain while you are applying finish ask me how I know I used a lot of water-based stains and I refinished grand pianos for over 40 years also water-based finish will never be as good as a solvent-based finish and because of the EPA even those are not as good as they used to be but there is a product made by Sherwin-Williams called cab acrylic it is some tough stuff you can hit hit with a hammer you can debt the wood the wood with a hammer you met met the wood but it will not harm the Finish
Can Crystalac, sealer and top coat, be used over shellac? Crystalac says it is designed to be used on raw wood. Raw wood would mean unfilled grain. Their comment is a bit vague. Thank you.
I like to put a coat of shellac as it helps with the wood color.
Is that the same brush all the way through?
yes.
What brand sandpaper is that?
I use Norton sandpapers up to 320 and then use wet/dry paper above 1000
I just bought this product just to try for back and sides of a classical guitar. Probable i will do by brush this is to expensive to use with varnish gun 😎
I am not having my Crystalac sanding sealer dry like yours. It appears to dry quickly but if you try to sand within 8 -10 hours it gums up and plugs the sandpaper. I have yet to get it to powder during sanding. I put it on much thinner than you did (with a foam brush) but it is not drying the same. I am heating house with gas heat and it should be drying much faster. This is my second round with this product. It did the exact same thing with the last tub of this material, that went into the garbage. The Clear Coat was a little better on the last round but I did strip it off because finish, in no way was close to acceptable. As we all know, a lot of work goes into building these guitars and to have to redo a finish on can really raise your anxiety level, not to mention refinishing it always shows somewhere. It is Hard to believe Crystalac made 2 bad batches. I am not interested in a refund from them, I just need it to work as described. Not very pleased with it, again. I am going to give it plenty of time to fully dry because I am determined to be done with nitrocellulose lacquer. I saw you used some water during the clear coat. Did you use some during the sealer application. Thanks for the great info!
I guess the thing to do is give it more time to cure before sanding. Sand with low grit paper too. 220 or even 180 should be fine. Another suggestion is to always work up a sample board or two before trying any finish on your guitar or other project. This way you can dial in the process before do it on a project.
OBrienGuitars Thanks for the response! I will try 12 hours. Hate to go coarser with the sandpaper. Too late to switch to a different product. Thanks again!
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Hi Robert,
I loved your presentation and I wish you were here in Singapore 🇸🇬. I have a guitar from USA is a bloody guitar looks ugly and horrible !
So many coats doesn't that dampen the sound ?)
You sand each cote down verry thin. After a nunber of coats you have a smooth and levled surface.
It is not how much you put on but how much you leave on that determines tonal aspects when it comes to a finish.
Yes but builders and especially manufacturers have finishing schedules that strictly delineate how much product goes on with each coat, how much gets sanded off between coating sets, and how many cycles of 3 coat/sand sets go into a finish. A Martin Guitar finishing schedule is a page long and results in an incredibly thin but perfect finish. Putting on any instrument finish is a control challenge when it is done with a brush. Spraying where the amount of air, the amount of atomization and the finish flow can be strictly controlled and reproduced on every guitar is the much better way to go.
How tough is it? on a scale of FP as 1 and 2-pack as 10? tks
Pretty tough but I wouldn't compare it to UV polyester.
I have worked with other water based finishes but not on stringed instruments yet but they tend to be harder more scratch resistant finishes. Some of the best hardwood floor finishes are water based polyurethanes.
@@OBrienGuitars Are you still using the UV finishes. I am about to pull the trigger on a UV setup for production work on another wood working business I am tooling up for. Do you see it as a good investment for your work?
@@jasonadams527 If the client asks for it I use a UV finish. I like them.
Thanks Jason - I'm going to give it a go but spray. See if it's better than the Danish oil polished out I use now ...
I'm very concerned. I want to make sure that it is also non-GMO.
hahaha gluten free!!!