The Best Worst Mechanic in Gaming
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 06. 2024
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Hey, the clock is ticking. No time for a description, just watch ;)
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Seriously, Opera GX is clutch (0:00â)
Try to relax... (1:26)
Time in a Bottle (2:37)
Attentional Control Theory (4:40)
"BuT tiMeRz doN't AfFeCT mE" (9:53)
Give this man a remake. (12:03)
The countdown that hurt me. (15:42)
Time, amirite? (19:16â)
â¶Games Shown
Persona 5: Royal (2019) - Atlus, P Studio
Fire Emblem: Three Houses (2019) - Intelligent Systems
Guilty Gear Strive (2021) - Arc System Works
Hollow Knight (2017) - Team Cherry
Super Metroid (1994) - Nintendo
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000) - Nintendo
Overcooked 2 (2018) - Ghost Town Games
Kirby Air Ride (2003) - HAL Laboratory
Super Mario World (1990) - Nintendo
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes (2019)
Don't Starve (2013) - Klei Entertainment
Pikmin (2001) - Nintendo
Minit (2018) - Vlambeer
Undertale (2015) - Toby Fox
Mario Party Superstars (2021) - NDcube
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door (2004) - Intelligent Systems, Nintendo
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII (2013) - Square Enix
Dead Rising 2 (2010) - Capcom
Minecraft (2009) - Mojang
Super Mario Galaxy (2007) - Nintendo
Disco Elysium (2019) - Robert Kurvitz
Metroid Dread (2021) - Mercury Steam
Xenoblade Chronicles (2010) - MonolithSoft
Pokemon Legends: Arceus (2022) - Game Freak
NieR:Automata (2017) - PlatinumGames
Celeste (2018) - Maddy Makes Games
Elden Ring (2022) - FromSoftware
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (2011) - Nintendo
Detroit Become Human (2018) - David Cage
Wario Land 4 (2001) - Nintendo
Haven (2021) - The Game Bakers
Star Wars: Racer Arcade (2000)
Final Fantasy VIII (1999) - SquareSoft
Melty Blood: Type Lumina (2021) - French Bread
Super Mario 3 (1988) - Nintendo
Neon White (2022) - Ben Esposito
Pandora's Tower (2011) - Ganbarion
â¶Media/Clips/Considerations:
âą TIMERZ
â¶Music Sources (in Order):
Hall of Hieroglyphs - Warioland 4 OST
Howling Wolves - Nyghttones ( âą Howling Wolves | Dark ... )
Celestial Valley - Kirby Air Ride OST
Sakura-Koi-Uta - Melty Blood Actress Again OST
Strange Visage - Kakegurui OST
Have A Short Rest - Persona 5 OST
Title Theme - Wario Land 4 OST
Hurry Up! - Wario Land 4 OST
Anima - UNSIGHTED OST
Brittle Hope - UNSIGHTED OST
Oath to Order - Majora's Mask Remix - Palindrome - aaronhotchocolate
( âą Oath to Order - Majora... )
Hall of Hieroglyphs - Warioland 4 OST
â¶Research Articles Cited
docs.google.com/document/d/1S...
#PsychofPlay - Hry
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Thanks again to Opera GX for sponsoring! What in-game countdown was make or break for you?
Valkyrie Profile's Ragnarok is kind of awesome
warhammer 40k mechanicus is pretty nice, and it has a clock ticking that I like.
Still waiting for a Daryl covers Magic: the Gathering video. Surely the most successful card game besides poker warrants a Psych of Play? *wink wink*
Spy Scam
Is there a way to add your videos to GX Corner if I already use Opera GX?
Stardew's timer stressed me out because each Day of a playthrough is unique-there will never be another Spring 1 of Year 1. Inversely, Majora's Mask always felt very relaxed because I could just redo each day, even if it was sometimes a bit of a time commitment. Even if progress and item counts reset, the accrued knowledge didn't.
Stardewâs timer stresses me out less once Iâve âbeatenâ the main game (gotten my evaluation from grandpa at the end of year 3), because I always want as good a score as possible. Once thatâs done, I feel like I can relax and take my time. Didnât get done what I wanted to in spring year 7? Thereâs always year 8, Iâll just add that to my notes and keep an eye on it.
Thatâs interesting. I always associate the timer in Stardew to be pretty relax because ultimately there isnât really an âend gameâ or punishment for not meeting a goal in a certain amount of time. Comparatively, a game like Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life, you only have a handful of years to accomplish everything on your farm before the game actually ends which I could totally see how that would stress people out.
Unless you try to save EVERYONE in one single 3-day cycle. Which is possible (except for mutually exclusive events) but one hell of a ride.
What you could just do it next year? Star dew was probably the most chill game timer Iâve played.
@@ApolloDawn85 dont you just continue as one of your grandkids if you die in a harvest moon game?
The scariest time limit of all is the ones in real life, when it comes to gaming.
I have 2 hours to play before hanging out with someone, or going to work, or exercising, or sleeping, or running errands, or going to an appointment, etc, etc. Some may happen in chains of events, for hours and hours at a time, I could leave at 8 in the morning, and not be home until 11 at night. Do I pop in a video game like Dark Souls? A personal comfort, but what's the guarantee that I'll get much done? Do I draw, knowing I can't do that for the rest of the day, assuming I'll start to miss it while I'm out? Do I play a game with quick rounds and easy entertainment, or will I feel as though I could be spending it on something else? Do I do something productive with my time, like Exercising so I have time later to do whatever I want? Do I nap for a while, because all this thinking is tiring me out and I need energy for the tasks ahead, while risking the feeling of having done nothing? The older you get, the more responsibilities you have, so you either attempt to maximize your time in some kind of optimal way, or you attempt to multitask, only stressing out your brain more.
...And by the time you start to come to a decision, you only have 1 hour left.
Same
same, it reminds me of that "life calendar" that counts the average amount of weeks in a human life. idk how people can use that and not fall into an existential despair every time they look at it. "oh i have 3000 weeks left in my WHOLE life, neat"
I relate
I think what's considered productive is sometimes not really productive. Sometimes games or hanging out with friends is productive, it can be a means to an end. Maybe you need to relax to do your job properly, but then you also need to make sure you put enough time into your work.
Maybe you need to talk to friends because that's still very important for you, and if you stay too far away from them, you will struggle in social situations and you might lose them.
@@jwanikpo fuck, yeah ur right
@@jwanikpo I need to get me one of those
My version of warioland 4 was broken on my gameboy sp as a kid, the save function was completely bugged. My brother and I had to beat the whole game without a single game over or we'd lose all our progress
That was one of the most memorable games of my childhood because of that I think. Beating the game felt like such an accomplishment
Oh that sounds awesome actually
That's really cool. Such a good game too.
That is a really cool story. Something that was unintended but made for a unique experience. Cool stuff.
That's how my copy of Metroid: Zero Mission was. Another time, I beat Pokémon HeartGold without saving because it was my brother's copy. I'd just keep the DS in sleep mode but never turn it off. You know how the game saves when you enter the Hall of Fame? Well I couldn't save because there was already a save file, so after the credits rolled, I was back at the main menu with all my progress gone. I felt very wistful.
I had a similar experience with warioland 3! The button battery in the game pack was dead so it wouldn't save the game. It was very stressful but it made me able to play the first levels so quickly and I knew exactly which chests I needed to get. Still one of my favorite games.
2:29 Actual footage of a Studio Pixel Punk meeting hahah
We're actually so glad you enjoyed UNSIGHTED and that the world and systems we poured so much into resonated with so many people! It's heartwarming to see that our design worked and that our little game makes people feel things!
Is Unsighted on Switch? I kinda wanna check it out now.
Not having heard about it before, to me it seemed like a great game concept-wise and one in which i could feel the passion from the awesome pixel-art. There just aren't enough pixely games nowadays. Definitely will check it out! ;)
@@beeingamazing there are a bunch of pixel art games though, itâs a very common indie game aesthetic. Not saying anything negative about this game though, donât take it the wrong way.
Sensational game, I had a terrible time with it and I loved every second of it đ
Thank you so much for having a mode without the timer, despite all the effort you put into the time mechanic. I'd have never played it otherwise and it's a great game.
For me at least I remember playing a math game as a kid and the timer pressure brought up so much anxiety I avoided that game altogether. I now have generalized anxiety on top of a procrastination habit lol
I donât usually have problems with timers, but timers on math tests specifically drive me up the wall.
Math tests is the reason I have math anxiety, which is a thing me and a lot of other people have.
EDIT: Hell, I made that comment without even knowing it's mentioned in the video at 4:20.
BRO SAME đ
Yup
That's a bad combo, hope it improves or you can find a way to manage it
The only timer that stresses me out is where I have to make a game altering decisions. Sometimes I stop playing the games for weeks to think about what is the right choiceâŠI probably have a problem lmao
Edit: I really want to play unsighted but just watching it from this video makes me want to cry :)
you have a problem
@@itsoracle indeed
@@itsoracle or they just have preferences
Unsighted is 50 times better if you just play on the mode that doesn't have a timer.
yep yep yep i just know that would mess with me too much
Hearing Outer Wilds being called a stressful timer and Overcooked being a non-stressful timer threw me for a spin. I've never been more stressed by timers than in games like Overcooked and Smithworks where I need to frantically get things done to meet a seemingly impossible-to-please que of angry customers, yelling at my friends as we fumble orders up. Wheras Outer Wilds' inevitability is actually ...calming.
Honestly just play Outer Wilds, the blinder you go into it the better! (And honestly you're still so lucky to not know too much about it.)
I thought the same thing about Overcooked. It was fine for the first couple levels, but as soon as it started getting hectic I completely stopped enjoying the game and haven't picked it back up since.
â@@JakobLogan if possible play overcooked always coop tbh its much more fun that way lol
âIf I show you a series of number then take them away theyre now sitting in your working memoryâ
My adhd: you underestimate my power
I also hate time limits, but I recently saw another really cool use of it! Psychonauts 2 has a brain that mirrors a cooking reality show, where you have to make a series of dishes at different stations using your powers and platforming. Each dish has a time limit, and they get smaller with each more difficult dish. It stressed me out! The first time I played, I made the first two easily, but I could tell in the last 30 seconds of the last that I wouldn't make it in time. I was worried about how many tries it would take me to get it done within the time limit. Until the clock reached zero and nothing happened. It had no actual bearing on the game. There is a "mystery box" you would open if you did, but revisiting the brain afterwards would open it anyway. It was just a way to mirror the horrible and debilitating anxiety of the person whose brain you're in!
Omg this level stressed me out!! And youâre telling me the timer was an illusion đđđ
me trying to figure out how an organ can resemble a...television show...
@@SnoFitzroy Psychonauts is, unsurprisingly, a game about people with psychic powers, including telepathy. Each level takes place inside someone's head, with the protagonist physically exploring their thoughts.
@@SnoFitzroy
In layman's terms, it's Persona 5 but you play as a therapist
That sounds awesome. I love doublefine
The subject being about countdowns reminds me of the DS game "Ghost Trick" which is an amazing (and very underrated) game that revolves around going back minutes in time to prevent specific deaths and accidents before they happen (by manipulating inanimate objects). I love the integration of the countdown with the gameplay, because in Ghost Trick, the player and the countdown kind of "cooperate" with each other to achieve certain actions. Ghost Trick is great, highly recommend.
Yes, Ghost Trick!!! Such a good game that deserves way more recognition, I adore it.
Dunno why they gave us TWO remakes of the Ace Attorney games (3DS and now Switch), but not Ghost Trick. I love both games, but still
â@@blakegrodecki1928 they are making a remake right now!
Another thing about Unsighted that I love is that, if the timer and moral dilemas stress you out too much, you have the option to TURN OFF the timer in the options menu, letting you play the game at your own pace. It's really nice!
i mean, i can't complain about a game giving you options, but it seems like it kinda removes the entirety of the purpose and theme of the game if you do that, doesn't it?
@@littleghost6102 thats the thing. i feel like casual audience dont care about that challenge. stuff like this happen for other genres too like fighting games. these people just want to win
@@Flufferpup That's their fault. Fun isn't the most important thing, at least I don't think so. I think what matters is that a game is made with a specific vision and themes and it commits to those things. Completely dismantling the entire premise of your game because some amount of people just want to have fun is, honestly, insulting. Sure, it's up to the player, but providing the choice at all hampers the experience. Just commit to your vision and accept that it's okay some people won't enjoy your game.
@@littleghost6102 I know three other people have said essentially the same thing as me, but I feel like elaborating on my point. Yeah, it kinda does remove it, but there are definetly a lot of people out there who would not want that kind of pressure while playing. The whole "time is ticking and you have to make decisions both for yourself and everyone else in this world" theme is lost, but if the person playing the game is still envolved in the story it's telling - or just having fun with the game -, then, at least in my book, that's a good thing. Games are ultimately entertainment, and if a game stresses you out to the point where you don't wanna play it, well, then that's not a very entertaining game, is it? Themes in a narrative setting are absolutely important, but Unsighted is still a game first and foremost, and if you make a game, you'll want people to have fun playing it. That's my take, at least.
@@Rasea611 While I'm of the opinion that a game doesn't owe anyone fun, enjoyment, an ending.. it also doesn't owe anyone a challenge. It's just as easy to say that if the mere option for someone to play the game differently diminishes the game for someone else.. that's their fault. With a choice, people who want the pressure can have it - people who don't can avoid it. The only person who loses out is the one who wants to take away someone else's ability to choose.
I played with timers on until I lost a few people. After I turned them off, I still noticed when peoples' timers would have run out. I experienced a lot of that stress and those feelings. I was grateful for the option to simply feel guilty for the friend I would've failed to save, rather than experience the utter failure of having to kill them when they ticked away.
Outer Wilds SEEMS to have a very punishing 21 minute timer that runs out in the blink of an eye. But when you realise that you loose nothing if it runs out it makes you forget that its timed at all. You actually have as much time as you could possible need to solve the game.
Outer wilds is the greatest experience Iâve ever had in gaming.
I had a similar experience in Majora's mask, sure you have a 3 day limit but you can always just reset it if you need to
@@Breezeezee Outer Wilds is even more forgiving though, the only thing gained in game is information that you never lose. In Majora's Mask you actually lose progress if you don't make it in time. They're similar but Outer Wilds handles it better than any other game out there.
@@Jay-sl9jo yeah I agree completely, I've played outer wilds and it's one of my all time favourite games. I just didn't think mentioning that would add much to the conversation haha
It's funny actually, because the timer in Outer Wilds is more forgiving the less experienced you are. It's only once you start becoming familiar and comfortable with that time constraint where it finally starts to pose as an obstacle to you.
I just started playing Majora and Iâve learned pretty quickly that the timer is rather forgiving once you know how to manipulate it to your advantage. Although the first hour or so was pretty stressful
this 100%
to be honest there's not much to do in the first hour.
I mean, you can just rewind the clock at any time. It's spicy enough where you need to do things in a timely manner for specific goals, but if you miss out, you're not permanently locked out of the opportunity. In my opinion, time limits pair perfectly in games with time manipulation.
I don't feel like the time you have in Outer Wilds is stressful at all, you don't loose anything on death, you will gain something though. New knowledge going forward into the new run, a new perspective, death is simply a means to your success in outer wilds and isn't at all deemed as failure. Really Outer Wilds isn't about being good at the game, its about experiencing it. Also if you read this, DONT SPOIL IT FOR YOURSELF, IT WILL RUIN THE WHOLE GAME. Outer wilds is too good of a game to be spoiled, if you are curious about it, then go play it (that's what the game is really even about).
Sometimes when I was at the end of the run, I would just stare into the sun going supernova, with the music and all. At that time I didn't feel worry, I felt the opposite. I was in awe, calm and even content with what would happen. Outer wilds makes me appreciate the universe and my time in it.
Itâs a little stressful in the last few cycles, where you have to finish pretty long strings or exploration/puzzles before the time runs out, but the only thing youâre losing is time, nothing else.
It definitely stressed me some times when I lost too much time to solve certain puzzles, like the brittle hollows inside and the caves of sand in the hourglass twins
Something I really like about Outer Wilds is that there's no visible timer. The game never tells you about it directly. You only find out about it through passing conversations, and the moment of realization is amazing.
@Chacroal Without entering into much detail to avoid spoilers.. there are several timers in written messages, counting down the number of minutes and seconds until particular events... But they are only available in few "late-game" locations.
@@SystemBD Oh yeah, there's also that. Kinda forgot about that for some reason.
i personally really like Stardew's timer - simply because it makes every day feel productive. it gives you a set time to get small, rather non-consequencial tasks done, and to me at least made those tasks feel more impactful. spending a day cleaning out my farm felt impactful, because it's something I got done in a meaningful amount of time. plus it let me divide up my play sessions, so even if every day was spent doing smaller things, I still felt like I spent my time playing well
I used to really like that too. Ever since I became an adult with my own apartment and more things to worry about besides school, I stopped enjoying games like that tho. I always feel like if I wanted to spend the mental resources of priorizing maintenance or organization tasks and put a chunk of time I can never get back into doing them... I could do it in real life, in my Apartment. I could spend the afternoon dealing with the papers and clutter on my desk, or finally organize all my downloaded class materials, or do the dishes I put off for a week ;-;
One âtimerâ I remember really hating was in Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions. If your team member got knocked out on the battlefield, theyd have a set number of rounds where if u didnt revive them before then, theyâd literally just disappear lol as in permadeath (or unless u can finish the battle before that happens). Even after the battle theyd be GONE gone. You could literally lose your best characters to not reviving them lmao and I just found that so annoying, especially at the beginning where I found the game to be quietâŠhard?? And with every one of your teamsâ turns weighing so heavily , sometimes using one turn to just revive a character can turn the tides over to the enemy team so quickly đ
that sounds horrible
@@Notllamalord It really wasn't that bad. It could be a brutal game, but you just turn the game off and start the battle again. I found Fire emblem more frustrating since when the character dies, there is no second chance to save them. Restart the battle immediately. Final Fantasy tactics ps1 (not so big on advance) was a really I fantastic game.
@@Notllamalord From the very beginning of that game you are given access to the Chemist Job which gives you the ability to revive characters with a low cost item. The time to "Cystallize" (permadeath) is reset back to a full 4 turns whenever a character is revived and KO'd again. Against some enemies that do heavy damage, an optimal strategy is sometimes to let a character get KO'd repeatedly to consume the most threatening enemy's turn as the single action to reset the timer is actually not as frightening as it appears with adequate preparation and understanding.
So somehow them letting you prevent the perma death made it worse? So just do a nuzlocke and if they go down at all just donât use them or something.
Isn't that a pretty common mechanic in turn based RPGs? Xcom and Wasteland come to mind.
A subtype of timer I find very interesting is the purely psychological timer. The devs have set an incredibly generous time limit, easily double the time needed to complete your task at a reasonable pace, but if itâs your first time playing you wonât know that. The timer isnât there to mechanically impede you, itâs just there to stress out new players đ
They are completely different games, but Unsighted timer kind of reminded me of Pathologic. It's also on a timer and if you don't do well enough, key NPCs will die. And supposedly they intended for this to be unforgiving, and dialed it up in the remake.
Yes, very much so! In the original release, you can save every named character if you're good enough. In the remake, the lives of the NPCs is based on RNG so saving everyone in a normal playthrough is next to impossible. (You can meta game it if you look at the game code, but wheres the satisfaction in that?) Highly recommend playing them if you enjoy the moral dilemmas of unsigned but prefer an eastern european version that repeatedly kicks you in the balls!
@@nautil_us Does that mean one of the Changeling ending requirements is altered? I remember hearing you needing to save the lives of your ward and the other playable characters to achieve it.
@@dilbertbilbertcrabbert1868 the changeling route only exists in the original version (pathologic classic hd), where the win conditions are exactly as you describe. In pathologic 2, the remake/sequel, there is only the haruspex route (but they're working on the bachelors route and the art looks Stunning) and there the win conditions don't depend on how many NPCs survive
Warioland 4's timer just had a massive resurrection in the form of Pizza Tower, a love letter to Warioland 4's gameplay and highspeed platformers in general
I think my favorite timers in video games are the kinds of timers that can either be working for you or against you purely depending on the situation. Round timers in fighting games for example. Most rounds end long before the timer even comes close to ticking down in most games, but the ones that come down to the wire like that are very exciting. Calculating life leads, resources, and screen positioning to determine if you can win the timeout or not is exciting to me. Some of the most hype fighting game moments I've seen involved someone thwarting a timeout attempt with literally less than a second left on the clock because they did something crazy while the opponent was only thinking about how to play safe and maintain the life lead for another couple seconds.
oh yeah thats a rly good example!
I can safely say I've never felt anxiety as a result of a timer in a fighting game. I've lost rounds to the timer, but it's about the same level of acceptance as realizing you're in a kill combo. I think it's because the timer is just another win condition, rather than a time LIMIT; and in most games it's plenty of time to win by KO, it's just kind of a weird alternate win state that you achieve if things drag on for a bit.
Yeah, but seriously, why haven't you played Outer Wilds yet? It is an amazing game and it is also interesting from a psychological perspective. There is no quest marker, no mission, no intro cut scene telling you what to do. The game is purely fueled by your own curiosity and it's the only game that comes to my mind that does this. The game literally asks you in the beginning "hey, what do YOU wanna do first?"
Also, Outer Wilds explores (and makes you explore) several important topics that can be interesting to discuss in future videos in this channel... Although I fear there are not yet enough research in those fields to do a proper analysis.
Oh itâs absolutely getting played at some point. Itâs in the queue, just not next haha. Got a few others I want to play first
@@DarylTalksGames y'know, I think I've said that exact sentence many times before about games I've still never gotten around to đ but video games aren't my job so hopefully you'll have better luck lol
â@@DarylTalksGames if you enjoy exploration and mystery/puzzle solving it's such a special game
@@DarylTalksGames I suspect that when you do play it, you will regret having made a video about time mechanics *before* ...
One of my favorite timers is Deep Rock Galactic's timer when you call the drop pod. You can call the drop pod once the primary objective is completed, and a countdown begins while the drop pod comes to pick you up. But here's the catch: You don't know where the drop pod will land. It could be near you, but it also could be all the way at the cave's start. Although 5 minutes to run a hundred meters to the drop pod seems generous, the game also tries to kill you with huge swarms of enemies that really turn up the heat. Often, in higher difficulties, this mad dash back to the drop pod leaves just a sliver of time remaining for a huge rush of adrenaline. I really love this mechanic because it turns the final leg of the mission into an adrenaline rush.
All the better when Molly decides to take a path that literally goes up the wall and through the ceiling, which is pretty impressive given the dwarves frequently complain about needing better equipment.
The random Grabber or Cave Leech doesn't exactly help either, or when loads of Mactera literally appear infront of you, or the occasional larger Glyphid digging into view to wish you a good day.
Damn, Wario World 4 was literally one of my favorite games as a kid. Totally forgot about it, but you just brought back so many memories of sitting by the windowsill with my GBA and playing that game.
we recently had the final session of our D&D campaign and our DM brought out the dreaded hourglasses - we had a total of 90 minutes to stop a ritual and boy did that pressure weigh on us. the thing that confused me the most was that when it was others turn I could get their hit and damage total realy quick, but on my turn I struggled hard to add 2 numbers lower than 20 and 3-10 numbers lower than 8 together.
and looking back i feel stupid about it.
The way a timer was implemented in NiGHTS into Dreams was very clever and adds a lot to replayability. You COULD just head back to the goal after destroying the ideya capture and move on to the next mare OR you can keep doing laps and rack up bonus points with your remaining time while everything is worth more, but if you don't get back to the goal before time runs out you'll lose all those points you collected. You can still move on to the next mare but it forces you to consider your skill level and weigh the risks of going for one more lap.
Daryl my man, for the love of god, please play Outer Wilds. it took like two days and it changed my life.
Speaking of time and Persona, I was wondering what your take is on the idea of growing attached to people simply because of how much time you spend with them.
In my case, I didn't realise how much I cared about the characters until I realised the game was about to end. I was pretty lukewarm towards almost every character, but as soon as the credits rolled I kinda started missing them. Heck, I could probably say something similar about people I know IRL.
Ugh, that opening skit brought back a lot of unpleasant memories. Sleep problems and having to be a high schooler don't mix well. Great video as always. One interesting aspect on time that I've notice in myself is when a game keeps track of your play time. Sure, it's a timer that only goes up, but I still notice intrusive thoughts whenever I see one. I'm getting close to the average playtime, am I going to slow? Oh god look at the amount of time this quest is taking me. Things like that. It's like an inverse of what this video was talking about, but I believe the source of stress is still the same. Perfectionism and anxiety.
I don't know if its simliar at all but I in general try to keep my games playtime legit. Like I don't want to go off to use the bathroom or go eat and just leave the game paused because it feels like I'm inflating my playtime , So whenever I have to do those things I just save and exit and then come back when I'm done. Only time I don't feel like have to is on a NG+. Then it doesn't really matter since I did my original play through already.
A timer similar in concept to the one in Unsighted is the one in the Pathologic games - particularly its sequel. The games go to great pains to remind you that the world is not going to wait for you, the player, to do your task, and if you don't complete your tasks, someone else will do it for you - and will do it worse, probably accidentally causing a tragedy and getting themselves harmed in the process. This, combined with the different survival meters you have to uphold (hunger, thirst, exhaustion, etc) suddenly makes an open-world game about being a doctor saving a plague a lot more harrowing, as every decision you make will now have a butterfly effect of sorts. Going to the grocery store to buy food is time you could have spent working on a cure instead - but would you have survived during that time if you didn't have food? Not to mention the opportunity cost of money.
It's a very dreadful and anxiety-inducing game of balancing opportunity costs of different actions, and although you can abuse the save/load system, the second game doesn't let you - if you die, you have a penalty applied to /all/ saves in a run. At best, the most you can figure out is how to save time by loading an older save (although this isn't recommended for The Real Experience). This culminates in a game that is horrifying without any real 'horror' elements, that can feel awful without directly telling you to feel awful, and conversely, feel /amazing/ when you manage to climb out of the depths and Do The Thing without telling you how amazing of a person you are. It's a difficult experience, but it's a genuine one. Easily one of my favorite games.
Shame they're both so janky though lmao.
That's the first game that came to mind when I watched this video. It's an excellent game, but an absolutely miserable experience. I get an aneurysm just thinking about it.
The explanation of working memory was excellent. I would also add the concept of psychological arousal. It helps engage us in tasks. Timers can draw us in. A repetitive farming task could be boring in isolation, but the timer helps draw our attention into the game and keeps us from tuning out.
Any mundane task with a twist thrown in while you have to keep doing that mundane task can play on your mind, especially when the mundane task by itself makes you take your eye off things, or is clunky enough that you can actually fumble.
Unsighted is the only game I have experienced where the time is too much for me.
Where I go out of my way to change the game just to suit my own enjoyment.
I played and will only play it without the timer. I am too afraid of it. Too afraid of my dozen personal mistakes affecting others or things besides myself.
Ahhhh Warioland 4 was one of my favorite games growing up. The timer aspect felt fair (even when they trick you into turning it on) and I found it less anxiety inducing and more an exciting way to finish the level. It always felt good to hop into the portal at the last second.
woh woh woh, hold on... 10:45 ?
Outer Wilds is extremely recommended by Me;
This interests me more than I expected. When I first played Pikmin, I was freaking out about the timer. Whenever I got handed a mechanic to deal with, I used it wrong, wasted the day, and tried to brute force my way with Pikmin numbers, leading to a Pikmin extinction.
A few years later, I tried Pikmin again. THIS time, I occasionally referenced the timer. I made a plan for what I was going to do from moment to moment, then checked the timer to see if I could make it. I got better at task management, because the time limit forced me to.
When I first tried it, the timer destroyed my already fragile reasoning, since I was scared of being wasteful. After a few years of maturing and toughening, the timer became a tool that pushed me to not be as wasteful.
Unus Annus
I think the timers I like best are the ones you can fight back against. XCOM 2 has a doom clock, but you can take actions against it to buy yourself more time.
I'm of the school of thought that there aren't any bad game mechanics per se. It all depends on which feelings you seek to evoke, and how it fits in the overall narrative you're trying to make work. *Intent* and *Context.* A good example for me is the probe minigame in Mass Effect 2.
The context is, you're trying to save the galaxy after all, going against an unknown threat, whose technology far surpasses yours, so you're gonna need to be on the cutting edge to match that. You not only get acquainted with some of the most competent people (and incompetent too) for the job, but resources isn't just people. You're gonna need stuff too. Lots of it. Welp, you're in the future boy, so you have the whole galaxy worth of resources at your disposal. No one said it's gonna be fun, and no one's gonna do it for you. It does become repetitive and menial, but trying to land as much resources as possible, see the dopamine element zero bar go up. You not being able to find the one you want so you have to move on to another one and you end up getting stuff for other upgrades so it keeps the loop somewhat rewarding. And then you hit a planet with a weird signal on it, and boom either extra rewards or even whole missions. That keeps things interesting.
Yeah it's menial and repetitive, but it wouldn't be any other way, it's rightly justified in the context of the story, and besides you get to enjoy the cool Mass Effect 2 music for hours on end with EDI overlayed saying PROBE LAUNCHED over and over haha! I get why a mod exists to remove it, but honestly I think it helps the experience more than it hinders the pace. I'd say it's a nice break in pace actually from all the talking and shooting.
This is a really interesting discussion to me, as Majora's Mask is probably my favorite game of all time, despite having really bad anxiety, and despising pikmin 3 when I tried it. And I think that has to do with that timers a having different meanings.
In Majora's mask, the timer represents a cataclysm, but it also means you have to start the cycle over which gives you another chance to learn about the world and the events that happen at different points, and gives you a chance to have a fresh start and plenty of time to take on a big challenege like a dungeon.
In Pikmin meanwhile, I never knew exactly what the timer was counting down to other than I assumed a game over that would make me replay the entire game over if I messed up too bad, which really upset my anxiety.
In Pikmin, the game ends exactly when the 30 days run out whether or not you collected every ship part. You get different endings depending on how many ship parts you collected, but if you wanted to keep playing after the 30 days, you'd have to restart anyway. But I think the timer is rather generous, so if you don't waste too much time, you shouldn't have too much problem.
I usually don't mind when timers are reasonable, but I hate it when they ask you to do things with ridiculously small time frames where you feel like it's only for speedrunners.
This entire theme I think is very relevant to Xenoblade 3. Most of the connections there are in the story and reflect what you said very closely, and I won't go into detail there, but a huge theme of the game is that everyone only has ten years to live in the world. Along with that, they add in a fake mechanic where you're literally on a clock powered by life. If you don't fight monsters, the clock will go down, and the game puts this on you at the very start of the game to stress you out. It knows how stressful having an omnipresent timer can be, so when the story makes your focus liberating people from these clocks, you emotionally resonate with the idea a bit more from a player perspective.
What you said in the beginning about Stardre Valley..: thatâs literally me. I get so indescribably stressed by the presence of a timer to hyper-optimize every second of the day while my friends say itâs an incredibly relaxing game. Thatâs why my playtime of this game will forever stay at 15 minutes.
Majora's Mask wasn't stressful as much as it was a fun challenge, especially in its mid section. When u still has a lot to do but also you CAN ALREADY do lot you are stuck in this loop of "Will the next 3 days be optimal? Will I do, pick, complete, the max amount of quests, items, heart pieces, masks, that I can?". And it's so much fun because some of the variables attached to it are partially out of your control. Damn, it is such a masterpiece.
Wario Land 4 was the first game I ever played and I suspect the reason why my life has gone the way it has (studied programming in college and working my way into the game industry). I always knew the game was good but as a kid I couldn't explain why. Hearing you talk about the timer mechanic and how it spices the game out really was a treat!
Timers for the most part don't usually bother me, but I had to chuckle when you compared Overcooked and Outer Wilds because I find Overcooked way too stressful whereas Outer Wilds is one of my all time favs lol
What about Pathologic 2? The timers for their lives were somewhat unknown but the march into desperation starts quickly and there isn't enough time to be around for half of the events. Even happen at separate places but same times to drive home the fact you can't do everything.. One of the most stressful, but also rewarding games I ever played. Lol
Ironically, while playing Unsighted we are literally giving out our real life minutes of life away, and the won't come back either, which makes the game even more realistic.
Great, I needed some existential dread to go with my hobby.
Every 60 Seconds In Africa, A Minute Passes
That's deep
you made me replay some of these games and some start for the first-time awesome video!
When you get to outer wilds, you are in for one heck of a ride.
I just want to congratulate Mr. Yoshitomi, because Wario Land 4's H-HURRY UP! theme is one of the most perfect pieces of videogame music ever made. If stress made a sound, that's absolutely what it would sound like.
The great thing about ADHD is that I barely have any working memory to begin with. I absolutely cannot stand unnecessary time limits in games. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's just awful.
I watched a few of your videos by now, but this is the one that got me to sub. The Oath to Order being used in the background of a conclusion for the way time effects us and how our perception affects its "speed" is so... for lack of a better word, moving. I enjoy your video essays in general but this one really speaks to me - especially because this powerful conclusion followed after the story of a game where you are managing the time limits of so many. This is a beautiful video
I was intrigued with Insighted after your patreon post just by the visuals alone, but this video has me itching to play now. Great video Daryl, time and time again you deliver
Outer Wilds timer is very different from what I experienced in other titles, I strongly recommend that you give it a try.
This isn't exactly timer-related, but that effect of being so scared of losing that you can't focus on winning affected me SO MUCH during my first time playing Yolo Arcade in Sayonara Wild Hearts. I'd played all the levels a million times already, but as soon as I beat the final boss and the game transitioned to the very chill and easy "Wild Hearts Never Die" sequence, I was so scared that I literally face-planted straight into the very first obstacle. Then I just sat there staring at the screen for like 10 minutes.
Great video! As always a very interesting topic brought on the screen in a very entertaining and easy digestible way.
Man, ending the vid on that Oath to Order fadeout got me good
I think one of the best games I've played in recent memory with a timer has to be *The Sexy Brutale.* The only thing I wish the game had was a sort of "Save them all" gauntlet challenge of some sort where you are tasked to save all the characters within the confines of a single in-game day. I know why the devs didn't go that route but it would still be something I wish I could try in that game.
Yes!!! I spent a while plotting out the timing of each event in Sexy Brutale to see if it was possible, I was really looking forward to this kind of challenge at the end of the game. Ultimately I think a few events conflicted with each other... it might be impossible :( For anyone who hasn't experienced it, Sexy Brutale is an amazing (not-horny-at-all) time loop puzzle/mystery game.
1. My dude, thank you for each and every video. Meticuloulsy researched, well-written, insightful, and always interesting. I'm glad I found your channel.
2. I once tried playing "My Time at Portia" because I was looking for a relaxing experience. After 30 minutes I said nah, this isn't for me. The game's time-element gave me anxiety. :')
By comparison, I can actually relax and unwind with a game like Skyrim or Watch Dogs, or with pretty much any open-world game. I can find a nice vantage point, chill out, and watch the sunrise or sunset. I'm also fond of booting up Cyberpunk 2077, and driving out to the desert -- away from all the neon signage, the hustle and bustle of the city -- and just sit in one place. Enjoy the quiet, the stillness, and the minimalist ambient background sounds. That does wonders for me. Same thing in the recent Saints Row reboot. There is something about a desert environment portrayed in games has a really calming effect on me.
And of course, the irony being, the games I mentioned above have you going around brutally [deleting] people. XD
3. I never played Unsighted, but when you explained its countdown system, I for some reason thought of the anime, Mahoromatic (I did not read the original manga). A very upbeat, cheery anime series that hides a lot of sorrow and sadness right under the surface. And this is driven home by the message "Mahoro stops functioning in x days" at the end of every episode. Every time I saw that message I felt so bad for Mahoro, and as the episodes went on, I felt this impending sense of doom.
14:04 Fun fact: A Hat In Time references this song in their time limits stages, called collapsing time rifts.
only found your channel today, binged it a lot .. such excellent content
Pizza Tower does the same thing as Wario Land 4 with the escape sequences at the end of each stage, and arguably with an even better, even more stressful banger playing
Chick fil a fries being akin to âflesh of monstersâ makes a lot of sense here because of the companyâs very⊠strong, unfortunate stances against particular groups of individuals lol, well played if that was the intent
Best video essay I have seen in a while. A lot of scientific research, good audio visuals and great knowledge of games (specially ones less popular). Immediately subbed.
One funny timer was in the original Ratchet and Clank game. If you play it there's a level called Blarg Station, it shows a timer counting down and it's mentioned in the cutscene, but if you wait for it to count down nothing happens. I wondered for a long time why this was the case, and two developers Mike & Tony eventually made a making-of documentary and explained that the timer made many playtesters panic and make simple mistakes they wouldn't normally have made, so they made it do nothing because it was hard enough.
uhhh, Excuse me WFT? 10:40 Play Outer Wilds! WHAT?!
My personal fav time mechanics are pretty much like both the ones in persona. One is the reaper and day to day life segments. I like the feeling that the dungeons can have after a while of "Oh crap I gotta get out here" it adds some spicy tension to what could become a tedious chore, which is something many jrpgs can fall into. The latter I just love cuz it gives me a sense of management that I find hard to implement into my own life. "I have to meet this person at that time and I need to grab that before evening. Oh, I also gotta make sure to read that book on schedule" those lil day to day duties are daunting and hard to fulfill, and as an adult as of last year I know that I this is how I should be thinking, but it just makes me tired and anxious all the time. So games like Stardew and Persona make me feel like it ain't so hard if I just gave it some commitment and effort. Then Monday hits and all the passion gets drained away after a full day of lectures lol
when i first saw preview pic and title i really thought that it is about character transformations. damn i'm not into those. i was surprised by it. so thanks for your hard work man! i had damn good one here! i also love some kind of epic towards the end which is present in like all your works. this inspires me. it serves like coma in sentence after which i don't really strive to find and watch something else on YT and for that thank you/ keep doing what you doing brođ
Woah, man! The editing is noticeably impressive this time. I think everyone can relate to this and that's what makes it a great subject (or maybe it's just you who do so, idk)
...also; "the end of Psych of Play is here"?
IMO, if the timer isn't apart of the story or basics, then it only limits how long you can enjoy sections and it makes you focus on the timer more then the amazing animations or music because if you don't you'll have to start over yet again.
If you prioritize the animation or music in a game why you playing games? You should be more focused on gameplay and story of game.
@@Mysticshosh42 I'm saying it's hard to appreciate aspects of a game when a clock is pressing against you. Like not taking in the scenery of Breath of the wild if it had a timer, or the music of Undertale if you had to finish in only a few hours.
In the case of stories, timers can also ruin that too. To save time, you might skip dialogue (or skim it) and entire optional NPCs because you don't want to start over.
@@jameswoodland2719 That i can understand I don't think i personally played a game where I didn't have the opportunity to enjoy all aspects of a game with a timer, But with the case of story if the timer is not stopping during a talk with NPC that's not good Majoras mask does it in a good way so you can actually soak up and read what all NPCs say if they don't do that to me it's bad game design as you shouldn't have to rush through dialogue to save time in story
@@Mysticshosh42 yeah, you know in Majora's Mask you can always rewind, so you feel free to explore.
@@jameswoodland2719 Definitely it's the best example I can come up with for a game with time as it's main mechanic done best
Timers are definitely a dangerous tool to work with. You always have to ask yourself if time-management and stress enhance the way your game plays, or if the game mechanics lead the players away/punish their fun for playing the game on a timer.
Really awesome explanation of how a simple mechanic - the Timer - can entirely change (and hopefully elevate) the experience and what's going on in the player's head. Of your many great videos, this was one of my favorites.
I think Pikmin 2's Water Wraith is an amazing time limit.
Throughout the game, you've been conditioned that before entering caves, you can choose what Pikmin to use depending on what elements exist in the cave. And inside the cave, you can take all the time you want to plan out what you'll do.
The Submerged castle, and the Water Wraith by extension, throws out all of this completely. You're gonna need all elements in this cave, however the cave is underwater so you can only enter with blue Pikmin. You must collect all treasure as quickly as possible. Otherwise the Water Wraith will spawn. Which in itself isn't a hard time limit. But playing without it chasing you is much more preferable.
I love the submerged castle. Amazing game design in my opinion.
I'm also someone who gets insanely stressed by Stardew Valley's time system. But I also can't even play horror games period because they give me too much anxiety, so there's that too.
It's remarkable how the biggest issue with timers is anxiety. Feels like there needs to be a brain rewiring when playing these games, not play it like other games with endless time but not stress over every second that passes (if the game is designed well) and somewhat plan your actions and adapt as the time goes and not wander aimlessly. I can see it being annoying if you just want to turn your brain off and play.
An amazing game which juggled this mechanic is Breath of Fire 4: Dragon Quarter. I was reminded of it when you talked about anima.
Near the beginning of the game you get fused with a dragon and you get % bar which rises very, very slowly over time, or in battle you can use extremely powerful dragon attacks that raise it a few percent at a time. When you each 100% itâs game over no matter what, and thereâs no way to lower the %. The goal of the game is to get out the underground and to the surface of the world, so youâve got these two timers working in opposite ways: dragon % counting up to a game over and distance to the surface which counts down until you can beat the game by getting there.
Spoilers for how to win the ending battle which has a really cool spin on the mechanic: you go up against a literally unbeatable boss when you reach the last room before the surface. The only way to beat him is to go against what youâve been taught and use your dragon abilities to go past the 100% mark by using the dragonâs continuous beam attack which ticks up the percentage every %. Itâs such a dramatic and cool ending where you finally get to use your full dragon powers without this guilt and anxiety. Such fantastic payoff.
I noticed the Wario Land 4 music during the sponsored intro and thought that was cool. But to do a whole segment on that game because of its timer? That was dope.
Wonderful video! I canât believe Iâve never heard of Unsighted, it gives me HLD vibes so much, and it has such smooth beautiful animation
It is forbidden by universal law to speak about Outer Wilds without having playing it. Hurry, go play that game before a horde of game critics come to get you. Oh, and also because that game is really, really good.
One game timer I vividly remember stressing me the frick out was the timer in the shadow realms of Zelda Skyward sword. In addition to the timer itself, once you ran out of time you would be thrown into an incredibly intense challenge that risked restarting the trial. I remember having to map out the little items you had to collect to refresh your timer as best I could so I wouldnt fail the challenges.
The timer fully immersed me and definitely is one that I will remember forever.
This video got me thinking about timers that count up too, I wish you'd covered more about those. Like, times when you have to do something for a set amount of time, rather than before it runs out. Stay alive for 90 seconds, keep shooting Flying Enemy until they stop spawning, etc
Good video. Sadly game companies now use the "timer"against you to manipulate you to play their game, in other words...."FOMO" (mostly in online mp games) makes me really sad
I used to avoid playing games with timers, until recently actually⊠but I like them quite a bit, majoras mask is actually infinitely forgiving with its timer, now letâs talk about dead rising if you like stress lol
As someone who struggles with insomnia that opening was too real. As far as timers go... I fondly remember Majora's Mask because of it; the time limit just really makes you think on what you can really do in that time-span and the game isn't so harsh as to not give you progression you can lose (songs learned, teleport points, or other information that you as the player will carry over even when you have to rewind time). Lightning Returns is another one where I found myself able to do pretty much everything I wanted to, some super bosses included.
I apreciate the Wario Land 4 music during the sponsorship
Majoras mask is the best 3D Zelda game in my opinion and a huge part of that is the phenomenal 3 day cycle. The constant countdown of time is used brilliantly and leads to the best implementation of time travel in a video game ever imo. I love how the impending doom is used as a foil for each character in the game, revealing as peers of their character as well as allowing the devs to create detailed schedules for each of them due to the limited amount of time in the loop. The impending sense of doom also enhances and emphasizes the themes of the game brilliantly.
A game series with a timer that I liked is Atelier series, specially the Arland trilogy. If there was no time limit, these games would lose some of their challanges, being too easy to grind and farm itens and level.
I have only played the Mysterious trilogy but I do wish the Arland trilogy would do like Atelier Firis and turn off the timer in the post game, main reason being from what I understand in Arland after you beat the game it just ends with no post game if I'm not mistaken, I like the timer but in a game like Atelier so focused on gathering I don't like the idea of starting over, I don't know much about it maybe it has new game plus to carry over items or something
I love the time limits in the Pikmin games. Iâve never gotten close to running out of days but the idea of it always keeps me on my toes. In Pikmin 1 thereâs some fun and cool hidden enemies or bosses that you are unlikely to see on a first playthrough since they only appear if you get to a late game area before 15 days which is unlikely to happen on a first go. I also like the idea of Pikmin 3âs adaptable time limit, especially in Deluxeâs Ultra Spicy difficulty, the more fruits you collect the longer you have to beat the game.
Wario Land 4 was my jam growing up and no one else seems to relate. I forgot how great that song was! Nice video đ
I dont get why people complain about majiras masks time when the game allows you to just slow it down by ALOT
Also you can rewind time if you wanna do a dungeon hit the owl statue there rewind time slow it down use the song of soaring to reach the owl statue easily its okay if you lose the arrows or bombs because youll get them by hitting the jar/bush there so it wont matter
SPOILERS FOR UNSIGHTED:
That anxiety throughout the whole game definitely works to rush you the entire time, but what I truly loved about it was that the game actually still *rewards* you for exploring to absolute completion. Due to the fact that there are multiple endings, there's a seemingly random plot point that actually allows you to reset time back to the very beginning, while still having all of your upgrades and everything else, giving you the chance to save everybody, but this can only be achieved by finding almost, if not absolutely, E V E R Y T H I N G. A total paradigm shift that creates a very intense and emotional moment, and urges you to seize the opportunity given.
Unsighted is such a great game. On top of the timer system (which can be turned off if you want), the game has so much replayability. Once you know the map and mechanics, you can fight all the bosses in reverse order. You can choose not to save the companion character at the start and play the whole game without her (this removes some key mechanics too. I think it was the upgrade chip system. The game is much harder without it.) Unsighted is so damn good, and deserves more love.
Love the song choice for the attentional control theory section.
I am slightly disappointed that you didnt talk about the _hidden_ timer in warioland 4 - that in boss battles after I think 90 seconds or 3 minutes pass a ghost will eat the treasures in the back of the boss room - and that these treasures determine your ending, but thats not important cause at that point we are Wario and all we want is that sweet, sweet loot.
the first time i noticed the treasures getting stolen like that I panicked hard and just made mistake after mistake -.-
I feel like it would be important to differentiate between resetting and non resetting timers.
Games like Majora's Mask or many platformers have a clock, but there are no permanent consequences for letting it run out. You may loose some progress, but the knowledge you gained should make up for some of that. These don't really stress me. I may stumble 20 times, but my final attempt will be almost like a speed run and I find that enjoyable.
On the contrary, games like Stardew Valley, Unsighted or those that limit your time for desicions offer no such opportunity for learning. An external distraction, my own lack of sight or any other factor may irrevrrsibly affect the game with no real fault of my own so I tend to avoid these games.
What a great video man! I gotta check out Wario Land 4 for sure!
@Hit me on telegram@DarylTalksGames get stuffed bot
Man, I have not thought of Warrio World 4 in over ten years, but you made me suddenly remember what an absolute blast it was. When I was an early teen this game made me pick up my GameBoy for the first time in years. And yes that timer was both really exciting and kind of stressful. I remember even after I completed the whole game there was some parts of some levels I just never got to because of that stupid timer.
The timer in Stardew Valley stresses me out, bc I always feel like I can never achieve everything I want to do in a day, because of the timer. And I can't really explore and figure stuff out, because of it. I've only played a few 'days' of Stardew Valley for that reason. It stressed me so much I had to stop.
Such a great video Daryl! I love your videos, and I hope you also have a damn good one today :D
The intro about feeling anxiety because you canât fall asleep is too relatable and I genuinely felt anxious just watching it. đ
NGL the fact that people feel that they have to "rush through" majora's mask due to the time mechanic makes me lose most hope for a lot of gamers and the fact that these people will avoid playing a game completely based off of a fundamental misunderstanding of how a mechanic works, rather than those who understand the mechanic they just don't like it.
like or hate MM, if you feel like you need to "rush" through the game, you're either a special type of gamer or you're beyond lost at that point
Agreed. The people who talk about how they're forced to heavily optimize everything in Stardew Valley make me shake my head even more, though. That game doesn't even HAVE a limited amount of time, and if you REALLY care about the game "scoring" you, you have way more than enough time to get everything you want done without worrying about cramming every day full. (Also you can repeat the scoring later so you can't miss out on that either.)
They may as well have put an actual 3 day-timer into MM and people would still complain that they just want to explore at their own pace.