How to rebuild old Benz Diesel fuel injectors - "pop" testing
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2019
- OM603, 617 and other 1980's 4, 5, and 6 cylinder Benz Diesel injectors need to be pop tested upon rebuilding them. Here is how to do that.
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Thank you for actually giving us information and not just selling a nozzle with a tester and then adding a PDF on how to do it.
Thank you for your kind note. Good luck!
Yea his site says over $400 for a tester. Nozzles and download.
$240 just for the tester.
Silly.
@@w124mercedes7 Its well worth it imo. I'm also a professional diesel mechanic so I can use it for countless other jobs though. Made sense for me.
How much would it cost to pay someone else to do it?
135 bar pressure you mentioned is for turbo engines and 115 is for NA engines.
Thanks for video, it is very detailed.
If your injectors are original go by the numbers punched into the base. Good luck and thanks.
Very informative, thank you for making this.
Thank you!
Thank you for one of the most informative and detailed videos I have seen in a while. You made me remember a lot of info I had forgotten !
Glad it was helpful. Thank you for your feedback
that presentation shows how to avoid the leaks: czcams.com/video/TRanhSPmlhQ/video.html
Very informative video. Great job sir. Thank you.
Thank you!
This video helped me alot..
Thanks from Sweden 😃
Cool that it helped you. Good luck!
Very nice video! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much Sir!!!! Amazing how you did with one hand!!!
Yeah, that was before I finally bought a tripod :)
would be much better, if someone else would hold camere1
Such a great video! Thank you very much. You got yourself a new subscriber.
Glad the video helped you.
Nice video. Very helpfull. Big thanks!
Thanks!
Thank you very much for this informative video!
Thanks. I am glad it helped.
From India,you have greate personality,u r a blessed person, that's y u teach everything precisely in a nonselfish manner.
Thank you and I am glad this is providing value to you.
great video. Very helpful. Thanks!
Glad it helped you.
Excellent presentation .thank you
Thank you. I am glad you liked it.
excellent video. very informative
Thanks. Glad you liked it.
Thanks ! Putting in monarch nozzles from mercedes source now! Great info !!
Ahh, they are back in stock. Let me know how they work for you.
Did you ever do the nozzles? Was it worth it?
@@andrewcampbell5258 it was worth it and was not to hard just makes you nervous to not get debris in the injectors but improvement in spray pattern was quite obvious
Thanks so much for this!!
You're so welcome!
Proper diesel engine. Reminds me of my old Patrol 4.2 na.
😁
great video if you do decide to rise the pop pressure then just advance the pump timing for best results......more power less smoke.
That would work. Would it really noticeably provide more power?
thanks for your share!!! very helpful! I need to do this to my om605.960 and the process i think that the process is the same
Thx. If yours is the 5 cyl w/ inline Bosch mechanical injection pump and the injectors look like the one in the video then yes, the procedure is the same. Make sure to also inspect glow plug and look down into the pre-combustion chamber. The little ball down in there needs to be in good shape in order for the combustion process to be smooth. Good luck!
@@straybenzes yes it's the 5 cyl... I think that a need a major overhaul to the engine to restore all his Power... Mine is a w202 2.5td
@@albertomarques7831 Happy wrenching on your up and coming classic.
@@straybenzes besides om605 engine it's a tmodell sport model autimatic gearbox. thanks for your support and keep posting
@@albertomarques7831 Thanks!
Gooten tag Ralph. Can the injection timing be adjusted on these engines? The reason I ask is no one ever said anything to me about it when I had my Benz but the guy I bought parts from for the Peugeot turbodiesel I had before that was always telling me that I should do it on that car. He kept saying it was simple but sounded way to complicated to me.
You mentioned upping the pressure which throws your timing off so if you could advance the timing to compensate that would eliminate the white smoke you mentioned. I guess the thicker shim in the injector makes the spring tighter so ups the pressure.
Danke.
Long story short: it can be complicated especially when one does not have some of the special tools and instructions, but the timing can be adjusted. There are two adjustments on the Bosch fuel injection pump. Assuming the basic pump to crankshaft sensor timing is still ok, you would need to adjust the injection timing by loosing the three pump screws and then using the 10mm hex adjustment screw. If you do not have the tools I would adjust the injectors to the nominal 135Bar and call it a day. That assumes that the timing chain has not stretched and thus offset the injection and valve timing too much.
Hi Ralph. I have the 1986 300sdl in the process of replacing the fuel injector nozzle and heat shield. I don't have a pop tester. My question is out of the 6 fuel injector nozzle you replace. How many of the injector did you have to put in different shims.
Hi Chih. Get a test jig. Most of them are fairly cheap. The biggest draw back of the cheaper ones are the pressure gauges as they usually lack a dampening mechanism to allow better readability of the gauge when you reach the injection pressure point.
I am sorry to say that I typically need to change shims on all six injectors. Then again I am also very particular about getting all six of them as close as possible to the same injection pressure. It makes sure that you have plenty of power with minimum of black or white smoke, and with very little torsional vibration due to injection timing offset. Higher pressure delays injection and lower pressure advances it. Good luck!
Thanks for the video. I have two injectors on my 603 that are leaking between the upper and lower injector holder housings. What’s the best way to stop that leak? There’s no seal between the two pieces. Thanks for your help.
There is no seal between those two pieces. Make sure that all parts are perfectly clean and that the thread is ok. Then properly tighten both pieces. If they still leak you will end up replacing those parts.
Thanks for video takes the worry away after seeing how it’s done! I’m stoked and ready to do this on my 603 124 wagon. You used acetone solvent to clean, about how long did you keep the injector parts in that before the crud started coming away? Thanks
Interestingly enough I have been able to clean injectors with either acetone or electrical contact cleaner. That said, I have not worked on injectors coming from used cooking oil converted cars. That oil can leave nasty residue depending on how the car was driven and maintained. Good luck!
Thank you buddy. Does my ponton have heat sheilds too?
The OM621 did also have heat shields to my knowledge.
Hello, nice video
I just wonder,where did you buy these shims?
I got a shim pack from MercedesSource. You can also get them from the Mercedes Classic Center.
What pop-off pressure did you set them at ? I have a 350SDL
Sorry Jenson. I just realized that I had not clicked on sending this reply. The pressure for turbo engine nozzles is 135BarG. All the best!
Where can I get kit of those shims? Thank you very much for your videos, you are awesome!!!
You can get shims here. I have not found a shop that only sells the shims. All the other stuff in this kit is nice, but you do not need all of it. Good luck! mercedessource.com/store/variable-26-pc-diesel-fuel-injector-pressure-adjustment-shim-washer-kit
If you need a thinner shim, the professionals in our country patiently scrub the shim in circular motions over sandpaper wet with diesel fuel till they get the desired result.
Hi Ralf. I live a couple houses down from you. I picked up a 83 300D last November and have started working on it now that it's warmer. If you have time, could I have you look my car over and see what all's wrong with it? I want to know if it is worth putting money into. It's got two weak injectors (I think) and the transmission shifts super hard into 2nd but flares shifting into 3rd and 4th only when cold.
Well, that is too funny that we get to meet in this space and you live literally across the street from us. The needed repairs totally depending on how much of the basic stuff you may have done already and how much maintenance the previous owner did. Just hit me up over the weekend one day and we shall take a look at it - 6ft distance though ;)
Will do! This Saturday I'm hopefully going to EZ Pull in New Ringold. They are the only junkyard around that has W123s.
@@stevenwrigley9694 Good luck!
sooo i have a question.. if i plan on changing my fuel injectors, and buy rebuilt remanufactured injector(s) can i just replace the heat shield and then slap on the new injectors? would i have to anyhting to the rebuilt/remanufactured injectors before installing?
It really depends on who does the rebuilding. There is the good the bad and the ugly. As a minimum I would pop test them to see the spray pattern and if the pop pressure is similar (I get them as close as I can). Trust is good - control is better; You can luck out though. Sorry if I am not of much help here.
thanks for the video. Im have a old mercedes but I dont know about mechanic. Im interested in learn about it but my english is not so good. I think not to much videos about this topic. Could be very interested a subtitulated video where people could read (use traductor) the most important in the video. Thanks
Thanks. Good point. I will check into that.
Hello, do you have any link to the pop tester you've used please ? Thanks
Something like this will work for starters. tinyurl.com/swhjjezb Good luck!
Hi. Very nice job and good that you have no smoke anymore. Anyway, the clicking noise is still there in the end of the video. Do you know why? Where from this clicking noise is coming?
Thanks
I believe the clicking noise you are referring to is completely normal when using this hand pump. It comes from the nozzle opening in combination with using a hand actuated pump. A hand pump does not offer 100% continuous flow - it is impossible to smoothly pushing down on the lever. Therefore each time there even the slightest slow down in flow the nozzle spring pushes the nozzle closed until enough pressure build up again and thereby making this rattling noise that stems from the nozzle opening and closing rapidly. Hoping that this explanation will help you a bit.
Hi!
Thank you for your quick answer. I'm currently working on my injectors.
The clicking noise that I was talking about on your video is at 25:18 min (the one when the engine is running, not with the hand pump).
Do you know where from this clicking noise is coming?
Has it disappear now? How much time after replacing the injectors?
Thank you
@@armandh9287 Ahh! I believe that I now know what noise you are referring to. That is simply a cold start with a pre combustion chamber diesel engine. This noise disappears within minutes of running the engine. If it continues even at operating temperature this could be indicative of another issue with the injector and / or the pre combustion chamber itself. Good luck!
@@straybenzes Thank you for your answer. Indeed, my engine was making the same noise during a cold start and the noise disappeared usually but since I replaced the pump delivery valves seals the clicking noise is permanently there. I removed all my injectors and pop tested them with the dedicated tool, they are all ok in terms of pressure (115 bars which is indicated on the injectors bodies), noise and spray pattern.
Your video has been very helpful for that! Thank you again!
As my clicking noise issue appeared when I replaced the pump delivery valves seals I just repeated the operation and changed these seals again (O ring + copper seals).
Currently the clicking noise is still there, but it will maybe disappear in few days... I hope.
@@armandh9287 Unlikely but perhaps it can happen. I would say that the pump fix you did has something to do with the noise you are hearing. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Wow
:)
Where do you get more sizes of shims? I ordered new ones from Pelican parts, but it's only one size. I want to have all my ducks in a row before I start on this. Google searches are no help
Try these: mercedessource.com/store/variable-26-pc-diesel-fuel-injector-pressure-adjustment-shim-washer-kit
@@straybenzes thank you!
@@DinahIsMyGal 😁
@@DinahIsMyGal 👍
I am pretty sure you got the air out of the system, before you filmed the start, it would of not just kicked over like that.. :D
Yeah, it does take a few pumps to get the air out. Thx!
Where is the best place to get pre chambers. One place wanted $1200 for prechambers on my 1987 300d. W124
Try this place (it is one of many): www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/6010103652.htm?pn=601-010-36-52-MBZ
Ok thank you. I just finished rebuildable my injectors with new monarch nozzles
And and new glow plugs on my 1987 om603. all 6 pop and chatter right at 2000 psi. But it has rough start and now smokes more than it did before. After it warms up it runs smooth and knock is mild but still smokes. It accelerates smooth but can't figure out why it smokes more than before. I pulled injectors and tested them again and still.pop at 2000 with good pattern.
Am I missing something 😕. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for your time in these videos. Robert
very informative but I have one of these engines that I've been trying to get started for a while. I can't seem to get a proper engine timing instruction. been researching and this engine just won't start. if possible can you kindly help. I really want to get this engine running.
Timing? Did anyone mess with the timing? When a Diesel does not start that typically has a few simpler root causes. When did the symptom of crank no start begin happening? When you crank is there any smoke coming out of the exhaust?
@@straybenzes the timing was tampered with. The previous owner did a head job. He said from then the engine doesn't start.
@@davidenriquez1081 Yeah, that requires checking compression, camshaft timing, and injection timing. Here is a link to a site that has the factory instructions for OM602 and OM603 engines. The one in my video was a 603. w124performance.com/service/Index/602_603/07MechElec.htm
@@straybenzes thank you very much for the info. much appreciated. I'll try it out and let you know may progress
@@davidenriquez1081 👍
surprised that you did not have any leaks when you put the injectors back together without lapping the mating surfaces of the pressurized parts. Those BOSCH injectors are notorious for leaking out of the housing when mating surfaces are not pristine. Even remanufactured injectors from Volkswagen leaked because the mating surfaces were not lapped. Currently use a precision granite block to lap from 600 grit to 2,000 grit upwards wet using calibration fluid the mating surfaces, and no leaks any more
That is a new one on me. I usually fight irregular spray patterns with new nozzles.
I suggest you watch youtube presentation [Mercedes OM617 Rebuild - Part 22 - Injector Rebuild, pop test and Install] the problem is not irregular spray patterns, it is leakage between lower and upper nozzle holder
that presentation shows how to avoid the leaks: czcams.com/video/TRanhSPmlhQ/video.html
@@eablau Yeah, that was not the issue.
I wonder how much a garage would have charged you for doing that: cleaning injectors and replacing the nozzles. And how much new injectors would have cost...
I have a Hatz E75 on a dumper. It's an ancient monocylinder that had not been well maintained but can well. It starts with a rope around the pulley. Well I bought a new nozzle but left it open to the air in the workshop for over a year. It took on a film of rust-colour. Bathed in utrasound and have it some 3-in-1 oil. The pintle is a nice fit, comes out, goes in okay. Took it to a local garage in the village for a test and he said it needs replacing. I don't know if he is familiar with these old injectors and is more used to an almost horizontal spray rather than a conical one. I showed him a picture of the expected pattern but he still said I need a new one. Charged me nothing! I said I'd pay him in beer, and he laughed -- so a good guy. The diesel specialist in town had said a test would cost 30€, which is more than I paid for the new nozzle. I thought I'd clean up the old one and get him to test that but even after an ultrasound bath (25mins in water, vinegar, washing-up liquid at 60°) and lots of spray I can't get the the pintle (needle) out of the nozzle. It's well and truly stuck. Any ideas? (Sorry for such a long story!!)
Hmm. I think I would put the nozzle together with and without the spring assembly and pressurize the nozzle either with tester or if need be with the fuel injection pump to see if the needle valve comes off its seat.
@@straybenzes Thank you.
@@johncollins8304 :)
@@straybenzes Just an update for anyone with a stuck pintle / needle, whichever is the right word. I got it out by putting the little sticking-out but in the jaws of a drill. It won't drop in and out freely, and I've read the only thing you should work on is the tip; again put it in a drill with a little dab of metal polish or toothpaste on the tip and work it.
I've since ordered a pop tester £72 Amazon UK free delivery to France. And another nozzle (18€ + 8€ delivery). I hope to see the difference in the performance of the three nozzles -- if I can learn how to use the tester.
@@johncollins8304 :)
i have OM617A it has injection nailing sound
If the engine is hot and it still does it that is most likely one or more of the injectors leaking towards the combustion chamber. Taking them out takes a long socket 27MM and a pop tester, but then you will know for sure if that is your engine's problem.
I dont know where I have to buy de washers. I dont know if they are specials and If go to the Mercedes or hardware store. thanks.
Can someone tell me the meaning: " the diference between any two injections nozzies within one engine not exceed 5 bar positive" thanks. Second, my pression is 115 + 8, whats is meaning? I imagines the meaning is inyector can arribe 123 bars? thanks
Here is one source where you can order such washers. mercedessource.com/store/variable-26-pc-diesel-fuel-injector-pressure-adjustment-shim-washer-kit
The 5Bar pressure is a max differential from one nozzle to the other. If yours is 115 make sure that you do not have any that go above 120. I tend to be really picky and I try to have them match each other within 1 Bar. It takes more time to get that though. The engine does run smoother that way though as the injection timing is affected by the pop pressure variating. Your nozzle seems to be able to also be set 8 Bar higher, but again, you should have the nozzles pop at the same pressure. Note though that the higher the pressure the later the nozzle pops which means that you will need to adjust the fuel pump injection timing or you will smoke bomb your neighborhood with white unburned fuel smoke coming from the exhaust. Good luck!
@@straybenzes thanks
@@307325 Let us know how it worked out.
@@straybenzes I bought the most cheaper pop tester, but it arrive to 8000 psi and is not too much precision..Difficult...Furthermore the pop tester fall diésel from weel presure gauge..I didnt know where I have to put the 3 washers which brings with the new pack (1 White plastic washer and 2 smaller rubber washer).
@@straybenzes Waiting company reply. Im from Spain
Please help me how can find tools to open prchamber mercedess
I got the new pre chambers from Pelican Parts. You need a deep 27mm socket for the injectors. Don't forget to get new heat shields and to remove the glow plugs before you try to pull the injectors out. The tool for pulling out the pre chambers out of the head you may get here: mercedessource.com/store/615-616-617-early-601-and-603-diesel-prechamber-collar-nut-torquing-tool you need the slide hammer as well: mercedessource.com/store/615-616-617-early-60x-601-and-603-pre-chamber-removal-tool-w-instructions
I made my own slide hammer. Note: Most chambers need some serious force to get them to come out of the cylinder head. Also, do not forget to take out the glow plugs first. The best of luck.
Did you see this video covering this topic?
Do you have WhatsApp
Hi. Thank you for this very nice and clear video. I have a Mercedes W124 with the same engine and I recently changed the washers of the fuel pump delivery valves. This solved my leakage issue but it seems that this brought me a clicking noise that doesn't disappear after few months.
So, I decided to check the internal leakage of my injectors by connecting each return line to a bottle (see example here: czcams.com/video/gEls-axWcu8/video.html). After few minutes of engine running the amount of gasoil collected was negligible (close to zero).
Do you think that this is normal to get so low level of gasoil in the return lines?
Could this low level of injector leakage mean that the injectors are good and that I don't need to perform a "pop test"?
So in that case I don't understand where from my clicking noise is coming.
Thank you very much.
Armand
Armand, there are a few things that are going on here. I do not believe that your injectors are defective. They appear to be in good shape. However, return line leakage is only one of a few reasons a pop test may be necessary. You have to pop test them when the nozzles were replaced, or the engine is starting to smoke excessively.
The clicking noise could be due to the fuel pump work that was done. Was that work done by a Benz shop?
@@straybenzes Hi. Thank you for your quick answer. Indeed, logically this should come from the job performed on the fuel pump which is the one related to the following videos (one which is from Mercedessource) : czcams.com/video/T9LmKDhbnNM/video.html and czcams.com/video/T9LmKDhbnNM/video.html .
I did the job myself with OEM parts, using the right torques and taking really care of the cleanliness.
As the clicking noise is still there I'm thinking that perhaps some dirt entered in the system and clogged the injectors but the good result of the leakage test make me think that there is no issue on the injectors... So, I'm lost...
If you have an idea, I would appreciate that you share it.
Thank you.
@@armandh9287 :Hi Armand. If there was dirt in your fuel injectors you would immediately notice that as the nozzles would get clogged rather than reduce the return fuel flow. The engine would start misfiring and / or start smoke excessively.
Diagnosing a sound remotely is difficult if not impossible. You could bring your car to a knowledgable Benz Diesel mechanic for further diagnosis. The best of luck to you.
@@straybenzes Hi Ralph. OK, thank you for your time and answer. I would study on this direction and think about bringing the car to a specialist.
I was thinking about clogged injectors because I tried to make a diesel purge (with Liqui Moly) and this temporarily reduced the noise (few miles).
Indeed, no other symptom except clicking noise and some random idle fluctuation when the car is warm (not systematically).
I will let you know if I find the solution and don't hesitate to come back to me too if you have any additional idea.
Thank you again!
Armand
@@armandh9287 The best of luck to you.