Does Lionel Messi really need to win a World Cup to be considered the GOAT? | ESPN FC
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- The ESPN FC crew reacts to Lionel Messi and Argentina qualifying for the 2018 World Cup, and wonder if Messi really needs to win the whole thing in order to be considered the GOAT.
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Ok the debate ends... Messi is indeed the G.O.A.T now..
Yes indeed I was a cr7 man too. But to be the best in any sport you have to win that sports biggest prize which messi now has done.
So we gonna act like messi didnt carry argentina to the last world cup?
hypebeast official and choked in the finals as well as choked in penalties in the Copa America and wanted to retire
Actually Argentina's best player in Brazil was Di Maria. Messi was good, but not on his level.
Keak Da Hyphy and ronaldo didnt even played in the final and he get all the credit for portugal winning
HOW WAS DI MARIA BETTER THAN MESSI IN THE WORLD CUP WTF HE GOT INJURED 🤦🏽♂️ people are so stupid these days i swear
Jose Carlos Costa Argentina's best player in the WC was none other than Messi!
Who got the crucial late goals during the extremely defense minded and impenetrable teams like Bosnia and Iran?
One important thing to understand is that unless your difference in quality with another team in the knockout stages are drastic, the game will almost certainly go to ET and Penalties.
Skaka will be remembered for not calling Messi the goat, that's his identity now lol..
i respect Shaka for not being a sheep and not just agreeing for the sake of it
@@ruddock7 coming from brazilian fan..get out of here..
Shaka never saw pele play..haha
How can he be the GOAT when he played so lame in a different system. He's never won a world cup went to 5 or 6 international finals and couldn't bring the team over the line once. 0 goals 0 assist. He was In the perfect system at Barcelona, he took over 100 games to win one trophy with Argentina. He's no goat. GOATs dominate the game on their debut. Lets see how this season goes and the world cup. You fanboys are so ignorant to the game
@@jasonbrown2215 it's not about systems , just watch him play the game.. he's just different
It's wonderful to watch this video at 2:45 AM on 31st December, 2022 after Lionel Messi won the FIFA World Cup on 18th December, beating France in the final just about two weeks ago. Also, last night we lost Pele, who was 82 years old. Just a couple of years back, we also lost Diego Maradona, who was 60 years old. It seems so odd that at the time of this video, both Pele and Maradona were alive, the world had not yet been hit by COVID 19 and Messi had not yet won anything with Argentina. The only regret for football fans is that Maradona could not watch his beloved Argentina win the World Cup as well as the Copa America, which Messi's Argentina won in 2021 beating Brazil at the Maracana. Let this comment be a timestamp for future generations of people who get this video recommended by CZcams. "Time and tide wait for none".
Hear, hear! Happy New Year!
champion of the world ☝️🇦🇷🏆
Shaka logic is really flawed.
One) Yes, Messi has not dominated a World Cup tournament, however he was Argentina best player, by far, there was no comparison to any player on that team other than Mascherano. That being said the Copa America 2016, Messi had 5 goals and 4 Assist, thats darn close to Maradona WC86' of 5 goals and 5 Assists. Not saying CA and WC are on the same level, but to say Messi has not lit up a International Tournament is a false statement.
Two) Its stupid to say that Muller is better than Messi just cause he has a WC. Muller is no where near the level Messi is seen. Lets take a player who is considered an all-time great, Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho has won everything there is to win on a individual and collective level. He won the WC, be a key part in the team. However, subjectively, to me Ronaldinho is the most joyful, entertaining and most beautiful player to watch. Objectively, which has more weight, Messi has been far superior player than Ronaldinho ever was. Messi is ruled for over a decade, no other player has done that. Not Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Platini, Beckenbaur, maybe Di Stefano. Ronaldinho was once the best player for like 2 years, so this is far more comparable since both have been considered the best in their time.
My point is that stats, individual award and collective trophy dont determine is a player is the best, its the eye test. It sounds a bit crazy but there is a clear difference when it comes to being "Great" and being the "Best". Maradona may or may not be greater than Messi, but in terms of being the best which the basis of the ability on the field, no one has played the game better than Lionel Messi. Even when I said stats, personal and team trophies should NOT constitute where a player is, they just add more to Messi's name.
UyemaHD Brazilian Ronaldo is much more of an complete player than Messi if we are going to your eye test logic lol.
As far as pure ability goes, Ronaldinho was more talented then Messi. Brazilian Ronaldo too. And both CR7, Pele, Beckenbauer and Zidane have all been dominate over a decade as well.
LeTrash Blew 5 Finals #Lavs 4-1 #Never Forget
Zidane had a much better international team...
You can say whatever but the bottom line is NOBODY would win WC with this Argentina team...Messi has carried Barcelona... Wtf you talking about!?
Messi most goals in LaLiga history AND most assists in LaLiga history HOW DOES THAT WORK!?
most goals AND assists in EL CLASICO history, even tho Ronaldinho / Zidane / CR7 / R9 played this fixture atleast twice a year...they each had a superior national team...SIMPLE.
you talk about Messi not winning man of match 2015 UCL final,.. Remind me who was the difference in the semi final???! Who was the difference in all the barca El clasico victories??? Who has been Barcas star player in UCL for last 10 years!??? In that case I can say Pele was carried by Brazil??
I can say Ronaldinho was carried by Brazil???
The only player out of these past greats I would truly call a hero is Diego Maradona.. But Messi is his mirror image and has done it for a decade,I'm no Barca fan..I'm not Argentine... But Messi is the best I've seen.
You Have you're opinion.
LeTrash Blew 5 Finals #Lavs 4-1 #Never Forget
not performed for them in UCL finals?
Who scored in both the finals in 2008 and 2012 CL?
Who thrashed Bayern in the Semis for their CL win in the final against Juve in 2015?
What point are you trying to make?
I'll tell you what, a completely asinine one.
+Electric Momentum7 If Cristiano could win the Euro with the limited talent he had on Portugal then there's no excuse Messi can't win with an Argentina team that has been ranked NUMBER 1 in the world for 4 of the last 5 years. Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, Marcherano, and Otamendi. Now about to have Dybala, Icardi and Biglia, his team is stacked and still somehow has come up with zero trophies and choking away every single final.
On Barca he's been surrounded by the best players in the world his whole career. Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez and Neymar are all Ballon D'or finalists. Not to mention Pique, Villa, Puyol and Yaya Toure he's also played with. And it's in a lopsided league where the competition outside of the Madrid's is at MLS level, he was supposed to win all those trophies on the club level. Yet on the International stage it's donut.
"You can't compare players of different eras." .... but let me compare Messi to Maradonna for my main point...
Padraig Murphy lolll 👌
no, he said, it is difficult to compare them at club levels, because there were no champions league for Pele... And the Maradonna C1 was different... The world cup is the only common element they all share... That's why he believes it is fair to then compare them on WC level... When actually, even the WC too is very different from back then, and please if you take Messi with his gifted skills, you bring him back to that time, removing the modern physicality, Messi would win you all the WC you want... Because when you see videos of Messi when he was a kid, there is no difference from how he played in his prime... Dribbling past players like they were nothing... So even if he were born at a different era, Messi would still perform because what he has isn't necessarily related to today's sport's level, I reckon...
@@marysophy3665 you agreed with what I said about Shaka about mid way through that reply. And I totally agree about what you said on Messi.
5:53 The only guy that makes any sense.
and u make sense
blind hater
@Greet Gysen lmao
He won player of the tournament in 2014 and he didn't even win it.
Matthew Beadle didn't deserve player of the tournament
True, Muller should've won it but it was close between the two.
Matthew Beadle you’re wrong James Rodriguez should’ve won it
cmon you act as if it wasnt debatable
But Rodriguez didn't make it that far.
Shaka forgot the fact that Messi led Argentina to World Cup finals
and lost....
“But he lost! By one goal! He can’t be the best ever!!
Yeah..he led Argentina to the World-Cup Finale 2014. We were a better team than Germany that year..
Which teams they met on way? Nigeria, Suitzerland (1 0) and a weak Belgium( 1 0). The moment they met a big team they lost. They scraped through quarter and semi just lucky.
@@dontbefooledbyjumla7869 you forgot the dutch
He has already proven he’s the best of all time. He has won it all except a World Cup which he almost did with a national team that struggled. Messi has been more consistent than any other player. What he can do on the pitch is unparalleled especially by poaching players that depend on strong teams to win.
Wanna give an update bro?
now he is the GOAT.
You legend I was waiting for this comment ‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🐐🐐🐐
Because messi is the greatest player of all time that's why.
But true you need to win a world cup
kristyan gonzalez you just contradicted yourself lol
Martin Rosario I know lol but Messi is great but I don't think he will win a World Cup cause he gets no help and soccer is a team sport and when it counts he gets no one on the team to help him he puts the team on his back. Look at the past World Cup they lost to a complete team Messi can't do it all no matter how great he is
kristyan gonzalez he has some great help the problem is they don’t work as a team and it’s up to Messi to be a leader if he ever wants to overcome the last obstacle that’s why imo I have Ronaldo slightly higher because Ronaldo finally showed leadership when his country won the euro last year
Martin Rosario What did Ronaldo do that Messi didnt accomplish with his team? As far as I know Ronaldo didnt play the final, so in essence his leadership led the team to the Euros final, while Messi already did it 4 times (3 times consecutively) with Argentina.
Black dude was not trying to listen to any argument. The other guy was saying that Messi still outshines his teammates that were way better than any of maradona or pele ‘s
Black dude talk too much. U don't know anything about football.
messi has never lost a game..what were u saying?? see i can do it too
These pundits are ridiculous 😂😂😂. What Ronaldo did with Sweden was similar to what Messi did that game... No knowledge whatsoever... Ridiculous. Messi is the GOAT even nowadays Barcelona are carried by him. People will realise how good he is when he retires
Alex Brice Ronaldo's performance was greater because he did it against a better team. There's my argument where's yours? Because you literally just spat out your opinion and it was not substantiated.
Tadeo Catania when did argentina lose to Brazil in finals
Alex Brice
You can't compare Sweden with Ecuador it's incomparable!
That bitch bottled 4 finals and retired.....HE AINT SHIT
Shaka: Against a team that’s ranked 35th in the world
Dude, that’s still a good team considering there’s more than 200 teams
The Skip Bayless of fútbol
Lol Shaka is not a hater ! You guys are asking his opinion!!! lol y'all silly
Watch your mouth
Except Messi is the Jordan of Futbol and everyone knows this. He's the GOAT by every metric and it's really not even a debate.
Infinite Zest 😂😂😂 Jordan won 6 finals 6 and lost ZERO
Messi has lost FOUR finals and win ZERO 😭😭😭
🏆❌🏆❌🏆❌🏆❌
He's layed 4 real stinkers in the finals he's played
Who cares about the Olympic gold or his under 20
Rual Tevez Jordan doesn't have a World Cup so therefore not comparable. The Champions League could work as an example where has 4 but has lost a few.
Giroud won the world cup with France. GOAT Shaka? 😂
Lmfao
@Ivan Quintero How fast and strong were the defenders when Pele played with compared to modern football.
@Ivan Quintero Question if Pele played for that Argentina team Messi had and Messi played with Pele's team, who would win more WCs
@Ivan Quintero Obviously you aren't answering the question because the answer is so obvious. Messi is the GOAT. The defenders back then are not even close to the defenders these days and Messi is running through them like knocking bowling pins. Pele was just fortunate to be Brazilian otherwise he wouldn't be in the discussion.
@Ivan Quintero Using ur logic I could say Iniesta, Gotze, Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann are all better than Messi
World Cup is not even the hardest competition in the world. Both Messi and Cristiano proved to be Gods in the Champions League, which is by far the hardest. These national teams only train together a couple of times every three months, and face subpar teams in the world cup until the final 4.
+Haagen WTF are you talking about you idiot? The World Cup is only every 4 years! You only have 3-4 chances MAX if you're lucky to be playing for a great nation. The Champions League is every single year and you get a chance every yr, especially if you're playing for a top club. The World Cup is much harder to win. Cristiano, Messi and Robben have won champions league titles and none have won the WC. WC is also a one game knockout which makes it harder because anything can happen in one game, like going to penalties.
Haagen Messi fanboy detected
Achilles Caezar You for sure have a smaller chance to win the World Cup, but in the Champions League (including group stages) those teams have the best players in the world. In the final 2 it has the best 22 players in the world, and the bench guys on the teams more than likely start on a team back home. Make the Champions League every 4 years and that becomes a far greater accomplishment than the World Cup.
+Raul Vazquez can't be greater accomplishment because you have like 4 teams from each top league making the champions league. 4 teams can make it from Preimer for example. There's a bunch of very good teams with great squads but at the end of the day there's really only about 4 teams that can really win the champions league every yr. The World Cup is the same but much tougher not just because it's every 4 years but because it's also ONE and DONE. You don't play two legs and you are playing in neutral fields unless you're a host team. Messi, Cristiano, and RObben for example have won the champions league at least ONCE. How many of them have won the WC? None.
Haagen you just gave the reasons why it is the hardest competition in your statements. Because you don't train or have chemistry with these players and have to perform regardless for an entire month till the final that's what makes it harder. That's what makes a great player, put you in a team and you have to perform with whoever made it into the National team to win a major trophy
No. He's already the GOAT.
Tadeo Catania how can he win the WC when the rest of the team is shit???? You shoult thank him that he carried Argentina in the finals.
NOPE
The funny reason why Argentina lose the FIFA world cup 2018 - czcams.com/video/0BZBivvPIKco/video.html
No he is not.
No lol he carried Argentina..
Kayleen Anderson to what
melokid99 did u forget Messi carried Argentina to the 2014 world cup final and he would've won it if Higuain could finish.
defence played good too.
Ronaldo is better. Carries teams with less talent the Argentina.
Celtics Nation no
Messi being compared to pele and Maradona just shows how great he is
My girlfriend watched Argentina and messi in the world cup. She said is that messi? He's not very impressive as people make him out to be."
Steve won the debate by just one phrase, " A decade!"
Steve is an idiot. Pele, Maradona, CR7 - also have a decade.
@@michaeltrumph121 CR7 never reached a WC final So Leave him out of the convo lol Pele was carried in most of his WCs Only Maradona can be taken seriously
@@thomasanderson2384
CR7 won a Euro with an average Portugal team. His international career is far better than that of Messi.
And Pele wasn't carried anywhere, he was instrumental in 58 and 70
@@michaeltrumph121 You’re just plain wrong mate. Messi has won player of the tournament multiple times with Argentina, something cr7 has never done. not to mention, he’s never taken portugal near a world cup final. And portugal was not average 😂😂
@@michaeltrumph121 yeah? Messi won The World Cup, Copa America, Finalissma, Olympic Gold with Argentina. Also won the player of the tournament in all of them. International Legacy Cemented. 🤫
Shaka's shtick is really getting old. He is embarrassing himself.
Nah I thought he brought up some salient points, managed to sway that dude sitting to his left despite the 3 whiteboys employing their mob mentality in the debate, didn't see anything embarrassing there personally.
@@voldmerot it is embarrassing he keeps repeating the same debunked point despite the other guys refuting it over and over at this point its an embarrassment
@@lighto6442 you're right it is embarrassing that Messi hasn't won a world Cup yet
@@voldmerot I agree its embarrassing to actually think a team like current Argentina can win a world cup but not as embarrassing as shaka
@@lighto6442 it's okay I'm sure your boy's got one measly World Cup in him, I mean he's supposedly the G.O.A.T. right? So if that's the case then I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch yet, just wait and see what the little guy can muster up on the world stage in the near future.
SHAKA,"PELE WON 3 WORLD CUPSSSS."
PELE 1ST WC doesn't win GOLDEN BALL.LMFAO
PELE 2ND WC: 0 MATCH PLAYED.LMFAOOOO
PELE 3RD WC NO GOLDEN BALL,NO GOLDEN BOOT(and he is a goalscoring machine).
hahahaha
messi played more wcs lost all, 1 golden ball, no golden boot. stfu
@Matthew Akuza Pele played 2 finals, Maradona played 2 finals, Pele won both, Maradona won 1 (1986) and lost 1 (1990), and Maradona lost the final bc they couldn't play their ideal starting 11 and he had played the whole tournament injured, even Messi's golden ball was sketch should have gone to muller imo
Pele played 2 games in 62, you moron.
Regardless if he wins a World Cup, we may never see a player like Messi again. He is the 🐐
Messi is the greatest of all time. I feel embarrassed putting ronaldo in the same sentence as him. Enough said.
Matheus Alves You should be the one getting yourself checked, he’s absolutely right, not just about Cr7 but regarding R10 amd R9 too
He is not. and you know in your heart that he's not.
If Ronaldo is better than messi how come they consider him the greatest of all time and say Ronaldo is only better than messi
Bro ronaldo invested many social tricks on his fans to involve their emotion to his place in football , he told them he had some enemies in football organisations that dont let him grow in football and booooom today u see his fans screaming to give his non-existed right back ! dont take them serious ;)
Ure a fool
Do I have bad memory or was Argentina not in the last world cup final?...I think luck plays a huge part. The dude been trying his best for Argentina
Just depends on how you label goat, if you count achievements Messi needs the World Cup. But if you are going talent and skill based only Messi is goat.
Talent and skills Ronaldo Fenômeno is the goat
Lol Ronaldo Fenomeno is not even the best player in Real Madrid in his time. he's at best only top 10 but barely.
You don´t know what you´re saying, mate. At 17 Ronaldo was already on the bench for Romário (at his peak) and Bebeto in the 94 World Cup winning team. By 21 he had 2 FIFA best player of the year. At the same age Messi was winning his first. Needless to point out that he lost 3 years of his career due to serious knee injuries. Still recovered from the first one, won a World Cup and got another FIFA trophy.
Messi is brilliant. Best ball control and precision maybe ever. But you can´t compare that to the crativity, raw talent, speed and strengh of Ronaldo. He brought so much more to the game than just control and precision. He was magical to watch.
Broke records in every team he played for. Messi has been playing in the same team and with the same people since he was 13. That´s why he´s not accomplished with his national team.
U say Ronaldo wasn´t the best in Real Madrid? Ask Zidane, that always said that Ronaldo was his idol, the best player he´s ever seen.
U must be pretty young. But don´t believe the hype, mate. Think for yourself. If u didn´t see any of Ronaldo´s games, then u have nothing to say about it.
this dude only know of r9 when he went to madrid,he don't know barca,psv and inter r9
Lucas Sales Messi is better than both Ronaldo's, Messi is more consistent.
Shaka : "wait you Can't say that"
Stevie: " I have just said it"
Shaka : 6:36😂😅🤣
Shaka should look at this video and look at his stance now 😂😂
There was a champions league when pele was playing,it just that pele did not play in Europe, and maradona has only 2 goals in it and never reached to the semi finals
Espn really needs to stick with the american sports.
amro ghaith you say that but none of them are American lol
Messi is the greatest player ever! 10 years of Incredible football ! Maradona had an Incredible World Cup 86 and a few incredible seasons with Napoli..
Logic: Pele isnt the GOAT because he had amazing teammates with which he won the WC, so he didnt need to carry them (but he did have the biggest impact)
Logic: Messi is the GOAT because his teammates on club level are better than anyone Pele played with (questionable but ok). And among Argentinians he is the best, but his country mates are not good enough to win the WC, but its not Messi's fault he doesnt carry them.
Conclusion: You cant have it both ways. And I agree with Shaka.
It's very simple. WC's are won by TEAMS, not individual players. Messi has done what nobody else has done in football terms. He doesn't need to win a WC.
@@piscesman54 what exactly has Messi done that nobody else has? Pele has more goals scored. More WC titles than him. Those are pretty much the most important things in football.
@@rollercoaster478 If you can't see it for yourself, there's no point in explaining it. Pelé played at a time when the pace of play was about half of what it is today and he never played in Europe. WC's are won by teams, not individual players. Messi's magic cannot be measured statistically.
So when Ronaldo scored a hattrick against Sweden to qualify for 2014 WC. Why wasn't there any GOAT debates???
Messi is the goat now!!!
This Shaka is so out of the conversation, how has he ended up in a talk show?
1.Messi
2. Pele
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Ronaldinho
Pelé 3 World Cups 1200 goals
I like Messi but I This should be the order
1. Pele
2. Maradona
3. Messi
4. Ronaldinho
5. Ronaldo
1. Messi, 2. Maradona, 3. Cruijff, 4. Pele, 5. Di Stefano..........Ronaldinho was amazing but his career was too short lived.
+Lucas Sales that's 1,200 goals including exhibitions, youth games, friendlies, charity matches, etc, etc, many goals which are not officially recognised and if you used the same logic for every player in history rather than just Pele, then many players would have surpassed 1,000 goals, including Gerd Muller, who would have over 1,400. In terms of official goals(which is what really matters), he scored 757 and in fact has less goals than Romario, who managed to bag 772 official goals during his career.
3 World Cups. Won his first at 17. Still, a whole lotta goals
Messi is not the greatest of all time! He needs to win the world cup or ANY international trophy to prove that he is the greatest. In Barcelona he was is surrounded by legends of the game like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Puyol, etc. He had these guys to fall back on in case he had bad days. Even in the international team, he has amazing talent dybala, Higuain, etc etc the list is endless in the Argentinian team. So Messi will never ever be the best in the world until he wins the world cup even with all this talent at his disposal!.
He did 🎉
"I don't think we achieve anything by taking merits away from Pele and Maradona in order to make the argument for Lionel Messi."
- Ale and Shaka while taking merits away from Messi
Messi has performed on the WC stage, he carried them to the final last time
Nope he carried them past d group stage
@@abdulbabatunde9151 he was talking about 2014 you moron
@@namedclaiming821 and i repeat what i said HE CARRIED THEM THROUGH THE GROUP STAGE.The defence and defensive midfield carried them to the final
@@abdulbabatunde9151 Messi was involved in all of argentina's goals except for one. Thats carrying. they wouldn't have made it past switzerland and belgium with out him. The defense carried vs netherlands and germany
@@epicfan1598 I'm not going to repeat myself again after this HE CaARRIED them out of the group stage,That's all he did period.the defense and defensive midfield carried them to the final.he had only 1 assist and no goals in the ko stage.THATS NOT CARRYING
Now Messi Won the world cup, Messi is the Goat 👑🏅🏆
For people that don't know. On the second WC that Pele won, Garincha was MVP of the tournament and Top Scorer.
I always tell them.. They hide Garincha bra.... At least Messi has a world cup now
This just proves that the most obstinate Messi detractors will die on their hill, no matter what. Shaka has said dozens of times on the broadcast that Messi needs to win a WC trophy to be considered the GOAT. Messi has won it now, but Shaka is yet to change his stance. Clearly, he has no intention to revise his opinion on the matter, nor did he ever have any intention to, either. If that’s not a lack of integrity, I don’t know what is.
Maradona,Pele, Messi, CR7. Everyone out of those 4 can be CONSIDERED the GOAT. You can never definitely say who is or isnt the best in a TEAM SPORT. Which one u pick is up to you, but saying Messi can't even be considered is ignorant beyond belief.
ddrdevildog CR7 can do nothing on the highest echelon of the league . Even Van Basten is better than him .
Many players have been better than CR7, if you're talking about goals then Ronaldo is up there with the very best but if you're talking about talent Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho, Romario are better than him.
Mopedsauce Chateaux even Neymar is better than cr7
you are so incredibly ignorant.
CR7 DOMINATED the premier league for 4 years, he could dribble past 3-4 players easily, scoring 34 as a TRUE WINGER at that time and changed his style once he became older at Real Madrid to become a goalmachine. R9 and Ronaldinho will never be as good as CR7 or Messi.
Maybe talentwise they were on the same level, but they peaked for max. 3 years (in a 15 year career), while CR7 and Messi have been dominating football for 10 years now. They both have won more CL, more league trophies, more ballon d'Or, scored and assisted more goals. The only thing those 2 brazilians have achieved in comparison is the WorldCup, CR7 even carried his national team to the finals, where he got injured (but was still crucial for the european cup). He also scored 5 goals against bayern (top3team), 3 againt atletico (nr.2 best defensive team) and 2 in the final against juve (nr. 1 best defensive team). If you really think that ronaldo/ronaldinho are even close to Messi/CR7 you are out of your mind. They had the brasilian flair and were super fun to watch but career- and statisticwise it ain't even close mate !
ddrdevildog dude I think the argument is about who is the best who played the sport and not who scored more tap ins or penalties . If we talk about talent then there is no place for Cr7 even in the best 10 .
Tie breaker? Messi is so far ahead at club level to Maradona, that this doesn’t get close to a tie breaker
I have been watching a lot of these espn shows lately and i can tell you that the only guys here who makes sense are the host guy , the english old guy and that Gab guy outside the studio
I'm sorry. Who is the black guy?
A critic with no credibility
Cali Sharp awww, nice comeback. Another keyboard warrior.
Jokes on you. I don't have a girlfriend. lol
Cali Sharp Saids the one talking about someone's women, grow up kid. 😂😂
Cali Sharp awww, ok buddy. Goodnight tho
Oh... So they have those people in soccer too
Just to those who say that CR7 never performed on world cup as good as messi let me tell you one thing guys portugal ended up 4th in 2006 and CR7 had one goal. CR7 has scored 7 goals compared to messi's 5. Yeah now you will say that messi made Argentina to the final but look at the squads of Argentina and Portugal. Huge difference
Por made one time to semis, two times to round of 16 and one time out of the group stage (while CR7 scored 7)
Arg made one time to the final,two times to the quarter finals and one time to the round of 16 (while messi scored 5) and now if you are unbiased you will also agree that Argentina had overall better squad than portugal in the last 4 world cups so that does make CR7 and messi's performance equal in the world cup
Pelé’s Brazil won the World Cup three times with all of its players playing in the Brazilian league, so it just goes to show how great and filled of the talent the league actually was
Cristiano Ronaldo, has done this already . He did it against Sweden in the wcq play off four years ago. So come you are saying no body in this generation has never done this before.
Lukie Henry 0 goals in worlds cups?
Jose Valdez Villa he has 2.
No one else from this generation could have done this? Ronaldo did pretty much the same thing against Sweden.
He is right that Messi should not be considered the best ever until he wins with his country. Pele, Maradona, C Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldo... None of those guys got a pass on the international stage. Why should Messi?
😉
Copa 2021
Even if Leo doesn’t win the World Cup he still the best ever of all times.....
So according to him the GOAT is Mustafi
"I DONT THINK ANYONE ELSE COULD HAVE DONE THAT"
Ronaldo did it 4 years ago against sweden with zlatan
Common i think messi is better,but these guys just ignore ronaldo
Messi fanboys have to ignore reality on a constant basis, ignore how much of a choker and flat track bully Messi is, ignore how talented Argentina is, ignore how ronaldo has been more clutch
I think they meant the way he did it, not just that he scored the goals
@@SI-cd7xs lol troll spotted
@@SI-cd7xs ronaldo fanboys ignore reality on a constant basis, ignore how messi won copa america by beating brazil in their backyard, ignore he won best player of the tournament 4 times including world cup best player, ignore he won the golden boot, ignore he has the most assists in the tournament, ignore and pretend that they don't know messi is going to win another ballon d'or.. all they know is their idol is going to wear a "no 7" just to honour messi's 7th ballon D'or... what a guy!
@@adarsh1184 I’m not a ronaldo fanboy he’s massively overrated but Messi did not win copa on his own, he was garbage in the final total choke job but the rest got the job done. Messi fanboys kill me acting like Argentina isn’t a top 5 team int he world.
Gab, I salute you. Your argument is truly understandable.
........And he delivered the greatest performance
For me, Messi is the best. I love to watch him play. And that's it.
4:41 “Pele won 3 world cups”
Since when did WC became a Brazilian league?
Pele did win 3 WCs although he wasn't brazil's best player in any of them.
@@viswanath6463 ARE YOU HIGH?
@@forshigity5000 he wasn't lol, maybe check history.
@@forshigity5000 he wasnt lmao. In 1958,his teammate alone scored 13 goals. 13 GOALS. By comparision,Argentina as a whole scored 7 goals in their run to the final out of which messi scored 5 and assisted 2. In 1962,Pele was injured and sent home in the group stage and Brazil still won. In 1970,Pele finally showed up and scored 4 goals and won a golden ball(same as messi) but guess what, his teammate jairzinho scored 7 goals😂😂🤔.Pele biggest fraud lmao.
@@quentinkubrick1018 that tell that to the greatest icons of his generation that played with and against him. The fact that you use the term fraud tells me your football IQ is low.
All South American teams are Strong, Powerful and Physical. Ecuador are a tough team to play against. They are one of the most strongest and physical teams in South America. Moreover, the Estadio Olímpico Atahualpa is one the most toughest places in the CONMEBOL. It is located 9,000ft above sea level where there is less oxygen available due to the high altitude. To go a goal behind and then get a hat-trick in supreme fashion, in a must win game, is absolutely incredible!!! His performance is very underrated indeed by Shaka Hislop!!!
Luis Suarez Ecuador was already eliminated and was playing a reserve side.
Messi is the GOAT for his club. Nothing more nothing less
LOL look how the tides have changed, messi HAS WON THE WORLD CUP!!! ,a copa America and he's won everyone in club level. There is no longer a debate, haters must concede to the fact he's the greatest to ever play 😂😂😂😂
What a load of crock. Just watch him play. Never mind the stats. If you know anything about football, you know Messi is the GOAT hands down, simply because, nobody can do what he does, game after game after game.
This is officialy confims that ESPN FC crew has nothing to do with football giving their stupid "points".
You only need eyes and a common sense to know that this guy is the greatest to ever play.
Yarin Shaked wrong
You must be talking about ronaldo
It's over right now...
he needs this he wants it and he knows this
Shaka’s logic is irrelevant...
Otherwise iniesta should be greatest in history of football. He won the world cup.
Whats raul fault that he wasn’t born in brazil? Ucl is much much harder than world cup.
Argentinians only feel that way because Messi went to Barcelona at the beginning. Simple as that.
Finally , someone who understands it . Maradonna went to Argentinian league . Messi actually left it. They don’t deserve him
Gab has earned my respect from this video
He needs to win at least something outside Barcelona
Steve Nicol hits it on the head, Messi has been at a higher level than anyone else for 10 years, Gabriele Marcotti also gets it right when he says that it's hard to judge someone based on a tournament that comes around every 4 years that consists of just a few games with lots of different factors within that 2 months of the world cup.....
Yet the true goats did it.why can't he
watch messi vs iceland
they closed his strong foot and he was forced to play short pass or take a quick shot he is indeed limited
If 5 guys is behind one player den it will be difficult only n dey know very well tat messi is best
I will take O Fenômeno in each an every world cup
yes
To be fair Shaka was right, logically to be crowned the best you have to get the greatest accolade, and in Messi's case it's the World Cup Medal it's just a tie breaker in comparison to others and I'm glad he has it now-From a huge Messi fan.
I still can’t believe he did it man. Goosebumps.
Just happy Shaka has been humilated in his lame argument.
Shaka nailed it!
Neither trophy nor goals makes one the greatest..
Argentina was a minute from going to penalty shootout vs Germany. Messi is a midfielder although attacking style but is their all time leading scorer. He has to be their best passer and goal scorer, Argentinas strikers hasn't done much to help the team get the cup.
Do you know why Messi and Ronaldo can never be called the greatest of all time because both play in the same era N they're always back and fourth one year it's Ronaldo's year and the other year it's Messi's year so that's why I can't say neither of them are the greatest of all time
both play on the riches clubs in spain and in europe,so there team is always stacked
Hello and I am sure everyone knows why I am here
Messi has ever taken these guys to the world cup finals
Messi plays the game at another level
Xhaka, has messi ever moved the ball between your legs? or maybe you are a fan of real madrid?
Ronald the brazilian was Phenomenon but could he control the whole game? could he set the tempo? could he assist as leo does? could he maintain his best level for long?
barca players won a world cup without messi
messi won nothing without barca
What?
Patrick Nelson Maybe because they have world class players with a great manager.
Steryon91 he is basically saying that Messi's success is dependant on Barcelona.
another idiot
You can't be the GOAT if you've never won the World Cup, simple as that.
Carnage Kabuto cruijf never won a World Cup
10 years of consistency just went over your head. Lmao. Don't be a hater give credit where it's due. Otherwise you are just blinded by your bias
He played great in WC 2014...
When pele got injured Garrincha carried their squad but he doesnt get credit because of his personal issues
his barca teammates won a euro and a world cup he won nothing without them
messi is good but its really the barcelona help that made him shine
Gab is woke
Yes Pele won 3 world cups & his team was filled with quality players & all those quality players played in Brazil for essentially all their careers so the Brazilian league was very good at the time
messi has to win world cup to be a legend. world cup is THE top level. its where passion and pride intervenes and you see the real character of a player. it makes and breaks players. Messi is genious , probaly the best of his generation but a legend player is not only about his performance and inspiration and popularity, etc, it is also about success and achievement. and to bring success to your nation is surely the way to elevate you to legendary status. for me personally he has to win the cup, then no one can deny hsi place among the true legends.
So Johan cryuff is not a legend..
POV:You don't actually have a good argument.
hey he did it
Shaka hislop shut up. Messi doesn’t need to win the World Cup to became the best player of all time. It is a team play but the best player award is an individual honour, not a team play.
this a team game
Big Messi Fan here, But Shaka makes a valid point.
Best players in ball possession offense game since 2002 are goalies: Buffon (Italy), Casillas (Spain), Neuer (Germany), Lloris (France)
Messi is one man Argentina's football team is many men. The reason for Argentina winning world cups in the past and failing to win the ones they didn't is simply because of the entire team. To know the GOAT you must watch his individual performances.
That white guy said "Messi's supporting cast is wayyy better than what Pele and Maradona have had." Uh, that just makes Shaka's point. Messi has had a great supporting cast and still can't win a World Cup. Meanwhile, Pele and Maradona have accomplished WAY MORE with LESS on the World Stage. Pele won 3 World Cups.
exactly
To be fair, PELÉ was injured for most of 1962'. Plus, he played with teams that were stacked with talent in '58 & '70.
I'm argentinian
First diego
Second messi
Why? He won the greatest cup for us. If messi win in russia 2018 he will be at the level of maradona. Im telling you the thought of argentinian people.
Messi is overrated. D10 is miles better
Yes he needs to win it
Messi is the Greatest
I am a Argentina Fan...I consider Messi as best argentina player. Pele is not the G.O.A.T he is the best Country player. Thats it. Messi is the G.O.A.T.