Why These Exist: KINGPIN 1080 Ti PCB Analysis
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2017
- Buildzoid analyzes the EVGA 1080 Ti Kingpin PCB & VRM, then explains why this card exists.
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Find the tear-down of this card here: • EVGA 1080 Ti Kingpin I...
Buildzoid's channel: / @actuallyhardcoreoverc...
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Thanks for watching! Previous Kingpin coverage is here:
Tear-down of Kingpin card: czcams.com/video/6aUBO7GRAmg/video.html
Interview with Kingpin: czcams.com/video/v0TQoMiq2X0/video.html
Buildzoid's channel: czcams.com/channels/rwObTfqv8u1KO7Fgk-FXHQ.html
I would love a giveaway. :0
He should have added, that gold bars on edge of the card are visible ground plane, to what anything can be connected :)
Other than that, awesome video - keep them coming.
Yeah, covered that in our tear-down of the card.
Gamers Nexus yujiro loves gamers nexus
Gamers Nexus Analysis ?? Where is rpm and temp in game 4k ??
have you guys ever considered doing pcb reviews of lower end cards and talk about the compromises made to keep cost down
This is a great idea.
We've done one or two of them on this channel: czcams.com/video/3EtiTDmuOb4/video.html
Gamers Nexus oh yea it was just s spontaneous thought, I was thinking about the "budget" 1080s like the Asus turbo series
It's a nice thought, I'd be interested too.
On a side note, the Asus 1080 Turbo isn't a budget card per say. It's actually deliberately made that way for small form factor cases. For example; The design of a Strix 1080 or Strix 1080Ti with the massive 3-slot cooler, is made so it dissipates the heat inside the case, that's why cards like those tend to be used in big cases with top and/or side fans for added air flow to allow the extra heat of the card(s) out of the case faster.
The 'Turbo' series from Asus (and any other manufacturer with similar design) is designed to take air from the front of the card (following the logic that the front fans work as intake) and then dissipate it through the rear exhaust of the card without releasing any heat inside the case causing hot spots, hindering the performance of card it self by thermal throttling or other parts like the RAM, HDDs/SSDs etc. These cards tend to shine in small cases were air flow and exhaust fans are very limited, that way the card can run at it's best. These cards though have a draw back, they are somewhat loud because the design of the fan is the weak link.
yea I understand the blower style cooler concept I thought it was more built down to a price than other cars but I stand corrected
Glad you noticed my rework job on this card :D I've put 3575's on memory too because it's easier to use same part in BOM. And 1VPEX is required to get Ti's over 2500MHz on LN2 ;)
Hi TiN! That makes a lot of sense, re: BOM. We're looking forward to studying the card further!
Does the PEX thing also apply to GP104? I have a 1070 that did 2468MHz core with 1.4V on stock PEX. For some reason the card also clocks worse on X99 than on Ryzen.
PEX voltage is powering PCIe transceivers in the GPU and few other things, and is used in GPUs since first PCIe cards :) AMD has similar rail, but i'm not very familiar how they name it. Last red card I've overclocked was X800GTO :D
Nice to see TiN here, keep up the good work ! Sure hope you found a way to keep efficiency per clock magic going like the previous versions
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love ur pcb analyses buildzoid. already subscribed to ur channel :) keep up the good work. these analyses are not just handy for hardcore overclockers such as urself but with the cheaper cards provide consumers a better idea in regards to quality of the parts manufacturers are using
"VRM for VRM" just perfect)
VRM/VRM would VRM again.
yo dawg, i heard you like VRMs, so we gave VRMs to your VRMs so you can VRM while you VRM
Yo dawg, we heard you like VRMs, so we put VRMs for you VRMs so you can overclock while you overclock
These in depth analysis are awesome, keep on doing them!
Awesome, and informational video. Thanks a lot for putting this together.
Love the work you guys are doing on ALL fronts. keep it up guys. Honestly I'm about to pull my patreon support from a different creator and put it on you guys, you've worked much harder for it. not because of this video particularly, been pondering that for a while now. thanks to all GN peeps!
WOW, the depth this video goes into! I'm in awe
You guys should try and get one for buildzoid so that he can go and break some world records.
that memory VRM is basically capable of a GTX 1060 VCORE
yep
smokeydops would you elaborate please? :3
that is fucking hilarious. He wasn't kidding when he said overkill.
A GTX 1060 needs IIRC about 120A on Vcore? Something like that. So basically if you took the KP's mem VRM and replaced a 1060's Vcore VRM with it it would work. You could even overclock it.
the vrm used for the memory would be capablee of powering a gtx 1060 core
So basically this card is meant for serious over-clockers.
For any peasant like me who doesn't do over-kill over-clocks it would like buying a Ferrari to plow a wheat field, it will do the job but you won't feel it really shines.
Dimitris Kepenos It sure would be pretty though. Batman Begins Edition.
More like a base model vs fully loaded sports car.
So a response would be great but is a 9614 a good overclock score on superposition... 1949 core 6200 memory 1080ti duke @70c
Love the crossover content. You're both great
Is it me or when this guy talks its a mixture of English and beautiful tech jargon :)
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GN, I don't get into the whole LN2 OC'ing thing, but this was mighty entertaining! Thanks so much for posting this :)
The word you were looking for at 25:35 is 'breakout' or 'pigtail', use the all the time in automotive with waaaaay more pins.
So there's absolutely no reason to get a Kingpin unless you're doing LN2.
well there's Dry Ice, phase change, and sub ambient water cooling... but I guess most people consider those the same category as LN2
Sahil Zubair Won’t the components be more reliable? That’s what I’m looking for.
Reliability is barely a concern with any of the 1080Ti boards. Even the founder's edition model is a great board. Realistically you get more reliability out of a 40Mhz underclock than you do out of any amount of hardware changes.
Based on the other teardowns, EVGA has really been overengineering their aftermarket cards. If I understood Buildzoid right, the FTW3 was complete overkill in terms of cooling and VRMs for water or air. Not to mention it's all under warranty even if you overclock and custom cool, so I highly doubt you'll run into problems before you need to upgrade. For the average consumer it seems like you just want to get the cheapest aftermarket card with the highest max power draw, and the company's reputation should tell you if it can stand up to it.
Anthony Lewis I’m talking a board with less coil whine and things like that. Better components, etc.
I greatly appreciate the depth you went into about the pcb and regards to how it'll act during LN2 sessions. That being said, how do you think the card will act with aggressive watercooling solutions?
I am quite lame in electronics but I could learn a lot watching this.. so, thank you mate...
Will you guys break down new power supplies and run through them in similar way. In specific newer all digital PSU' compared to analog power? Have a great day
I second that.
thank you for these...
I'm buying one. In 2019. Stuff 20 series. Thanks for the vids
Did you burb at 14:50 ??
Nice Video, like allways :)
you answered questions I had and more
i understand this video because of factorio lol. btw very informative and in dept video
so it is only a factor of if EVGA turned on Body breaking mode, and if that improves anything for XOC. If only the lower end cards like the GTX1050Ti had a VRM that efficient and well cooled, very impressive.
if a really good real 8-phase is better than a doubled 10-phase, why EVGA chose to go with the latter? EVGA could have gone all the way to a doubled 16-phase. It is the kingpin card in the end. nothing is overkill.
16 phases worth of PowIRstages are actually really hard to fit on a GPU PCB. It's why even the 980Ti Kingpin was only 14 phases for Vcore. Also I doubt 16 phases would help a 1080Ti clock any higher. Even on LN2.
#AskSteve Hey Steve and Buildziod, great video with analysis that was very informative. Curious of one thing though, if you bought the Kingpin card and used the dip switches to cancel any of the protections but you didnt use LN2 and just put it on a custom water loop would you see any moticeable gains over the other various 1080ti's on the market?
Potentially although not much probably. Once you start getting above the 120% power target the cards get really toasty in all of the wrong places. kinda like overclocking cpus. You might get 1mhz more with another .5v, but you are also going to add another 10c to the load temp.
With electrical components heat is your worst enemy. The hotter something is the less efficient it can be. This is why LN2 is used. It isn't about keeping the card below TJMax, but keeping it super cold for efficiency sake.
Good vid so far but one thing, using orange on a dark PCB with gold accents wasnt the best choice.
hey buildzoid are you getting one for ln2 overclocking ?
steve can you please answer with vga cards/mother boards come with a conformal coating other than gigabyte extreme gaming ?
I really wish they would make a card for custom watercooling that has the power and voltage limits lifted. I havea Founder's Edition under water and it will OC to 2088, but I still have a ton of thermal headroom left. I don't neccesarily need everything this card offers, but I could definitely make use of the limits being removed.
just get a waterblock for this and then use the LN2 utilities. It's not like the card checks to see if it's bellow 0C before enabling those functions.
I think The kingpin card is really good for watercooling because it is designed to fit in a single slot without chopping of a DVI connector like linus did :)
I realize that is possible (if someone releases a waterblock for it) but you are just left paying for a ton of features that would go unused. If previous cards are anything to go by this is going to be about $300 more that reference. Thats alot of extra to pay just for having power limit and voltage limits removed when i need literally nothing else. My point is simply that a manufacturer could make good money if they made a card targeted towards watercoolers
User Apego I agree, but remember with the 1080ti founder's edition you can do that too. My main request is for basically a card between Founders and Kingpin with power and voltage limits removed. I understand why it has not been done with the limits enforced by Nvidia, but I also wonder how EVGA got away with it here. My only guess could be that Nvidia greenlighted it since this card will be in a whole different price tier than almost all other 1080tis. In an ideal world I would love for all cards to come with the option to fully unlock them if you are willing to give up your warranty. They could do this with a piece of software that takes your serial number and basically turns on a permanent flag in the Bios that can't be over written. Similar to how HTC did with their Android phone bootloader unlock a few years ago.
how did you guys do the dynamic timestamp at the lower end corner?
Why you don't use liquid metal for these ln2 pot risers? Is it because it's corrosive to copper or silicon?
Is there another 1080 ti card that would perform equivalently 24/7 on a strong custom loop? I've seen a lot of talk of that this card should 'only be bought by ln2 clockers' but if it has higher out of the box power limits than other cards then this seems like the one to get.
Not really. You are going to hit other walls even without a power limit. Generally speaking the best you are going to do without exotic cooling is around 2100mhz, and that is almost pure luck.
Dunno man, It's a binned chip and if you don't need hard mod for +1.1 vcore then it's going to perform better than other cards. Maybe it's only 40mhz core and 100mhz mem clock for a 24/7oc, but you've gotta admit there's potential value to non-ln2ers/dicers here.
Is there an assembly that would allow you to cool it using the Little Devil LD PC-V10 Phase Change Cooler Base unit.
these are the tech videos that really matter
I'm going to buy this card and then buy a waterblock from ekwb if it's compatible and make myself a custom water cooling loop
I am not a hardware guy... but if I’m hitting this card 24/7 with terabytes of data in terms of model training, does all of this voltage regulation help in stability and longevity of the card itself. Another issue for large data modeling is flipped bits - errors generated by voltage micro-surges that are hard to catch. The reason companies pay a fortune for ecc ram.
why is there the extra sli finger? my guess is for being far enough away from the ln2 pot that it can still connect
yeah that was my intial thought but when I asked for confirmation I got told that they won't tell me what it's for.
if this was the model from computex then it may just be a preproduction unit, and wont reflect on the final product
Is there any video or guide I can read about this stuff?
It's interesting but i don't understand much other than the basic terminology.
why would you want to be on ln2? how long can a video card last with hot cold cycles?
can you do a PCB breakdown on asus Poseidon 1080ti because it killed clock speeds on Jay-Z bench compared to other 1080ti s
Maybe I missed this in the video or the comments but why do I count 12 memorychips like on a titanx instead of 11 chips and a blank space like other 1080ti 's have ?
Are the chips binned from the factory?
The sad bit is that most gaming channels never do enough low-mid/low end hardware, which tends to be stuff the vast majority of pc users actually buy or can afford. This tends to create the impression that you're not a gamer unless you use enthusiast hardware and overclock it, when enthusiasts/overclockers are in fact the vast minority of users, and some of them only do overclocking and benchmarks. All those enthusiast level hardware tends to be boring, since they are what you usually expect 10 times out of 10 anyways, which usually boils down to "Yeah, that's a very nice thing that I'll never be able to afford" thing for your ordinary user.
We just review the R5 CPUs vs. the i5 CPUs, we posted a round-up of $50 to $100 cases, we reviewed the RX 560 and RX 570 -- and, if you count it, the RX 580 -- and posted a PC build guide of the G4560. Oh, and reviewed the G4560 vs. i3 CPUs, reviewed an i3 CPU earlier this year, reviewed CPU coolers that were $20 to $50, posted coverage of a ton of $70 cases from Computex not one week ago.
prooves to me that you do get what you pay for and also I have no idea about overclocking. A stock 1080ti would probably be overkill for my purposes (running my balls off and constantly dying in PUBG, PCB layout in kicad, and 4K footage editing with Premiere Pro)
These are some great features but limits benchmarking to only this card lol.. so nice that they do it but sucks that it´s only a one off... if they would make an extreme overclocking edition of each card available then it would make a bit more sense.. then again to get the first place in benchmarks, hwbot etc.. you need the best overclocker.. and while these are great features.. they won´t be the deciding factor in buying. You would still get more points with custom volt modding a GPU that´s die was cut from the most middle part of the wafer and there is a ton more variations that messes with this :D kinda hard to explain.. but in short.. A nice card from EVGA but still kinda limiting :P
wonder if that "third" sli finger is to enable high bandwidth SLI with more than 2 cards?
It is for the EVBOT voltage controller.
You can just frankenstein a bunch of high-bandwidth bridges together to enable >2-card SLI.
Are you ever going to review the GALAX 1080 Ti?
If I get my hands on pictures of the PCB
www.galax.com/downloads/1080TiHOF_G.zip They have high resolution images here. But sadly they're at an angle.
Shouldn't it have 11 memory chips? I cant find the missing one in this picture. Anyone see the empty space?
Release date?
Is this card worth getting if your not going to use LN2? Is it going to run better than the Classified or Strix for gaming as far as Overclocking / FPS?
Basically...no. Just about every Pascal card from nvidia overclocks to the same number. The difference is in cooling, seriously. Check out any decent review from any youtuber, they all hit the same overclock numbers, the difference is in the temps and noise, and RGB if that's your thing.
Yeah, that's what I figured but then what's the purpose of the kingpin except for LN2 overclocking? LN2 is expensive and not really use for long gaming sessions.
for the future when modders unlock the limitations built in to the cards with custom bios, these cards would really shine
For flatliners, just get the cheapest card with a decent cooler
Apparently, the Kingpin 1080ti is guaranteed to achieve a minimum of a 2050MHz base clock. So if you are going to buy it and just use the cooler that it ships with, then you know that you get at least that speed, on my FTW3 the 2037MHz is max it can do.
Okay cool thanks for the answers guys.
a 980 Ti pulling 1000 watts under load?
Have we heard if the Kingpin GPUs are binned?
AFAIK EVGA guarantees an OC of at least 2025MHz.
how can this thin 1mm pcb conduct currents in the spectrum of hundreds, meanwhile arc welder wires are 5mm copper cylinder at worst. also why arent gpus directly powered from the wall to save cost on first making the psu take 220, bring it to 12 v and then the gpu takes 12 and makes it 1v
Stepping down a 12V rail is much easier, safer and more space efficient than powering it from the wall (not to mention that it's modular). And the PCB has a few layers with thicker copper dedicated for power delivery so the actual copper volume should be sufficient
I was unaware Kingpin worked for EVGA. I have to question the validity of the benchmark ranking now. Do I want to see a corporate hack at the top of the list? No. The ranking should be for amateur enthusiasts only. Corps should be barred from submitting results, or should have a separate ranking to keep the playing field level and the process transparent.
and it has rollerblade wheels!
Ive never seen break-OC-record-card on Ln2, OCd so high and you play games with it? whatd happen? Do it increase about 50fps more than on air or something?
Just search CZcams for Exreme overclocking or Overclocking with LN2. There are different records for example, Just hitting the highest OC, hitting the highest OC while running X program etc. You can check out a site called HWBot.org and you can see all the various records and their OC values
I checked. Just couldnt find any card that on Ln2 for playing some triple A games :(
Yea, there is basically no card that is practical to use with LN2 to play games. It is simply for setting records and pushing things to the extreme. If you watch them using LN2 they are constantly having to monitor temps, voltages and many other things along with having to add more LN2 as the temps rise. So yea it wont be used during gaming.
I know i know. Im just curious, what kind of improvment(in terms of fps, i guess) on games running from those Ln2 card?
Could make gap 50fps perhaps?
Only if you could get the GPU and CPU to insane levels at the same time, but then most likely you would run into other bottlenecks like memory or engine issues. Some games even have a hard 200fps limit. A good anecdote to this is you could have a 10k horsepower car, but you won't be able to keep the tires on the ground.
I want to buy one just to save it from the torture these nutters will make it endure! ...and we can play minecraft together, on the cooler evenings, with the glow from my rgb lights glinting off the copper plated fin array.
hypothetically would a card like this be more efficient if underclocked and undervoltage to "stock" clock speeds just because the mosfets and vrams arent working nearly as hard as say a 1080ti FE? Or how about the GPU silicon being binned higher so it needs less voltage to run those "stock" clock speeds? idk just a thought.. kinda like grandpa driving a new Corvette 55mph on the freeway sipping fuel idling along at 750 rpms, 7th gear.. Gets like 34 mpg or something like that.. i need to sleep more
Efficiency, alas, doesn't quite work like that. Take power supplied for example, efficiency can technically be much worse below 20% utilisation. Usually isn't, but it can be.
And a corvette would be completely wasted at 55. It's designed head to toe to do better, at 80 and above it's juust starting to really hug the ground, and even get better effciency than lower speeds.
So really, while it may follow logically that these boards may be super efficient at underclocks, it may very well be the complete opposite as well, and an underclocked kingpin happens to guzzle more juice than an all AMD overkill rig...
that's an amazing 1080ti, take my money :D not that I will buy it because it would be totally overkill for my use...
actually hardcore power saving
Guessing they're going to charge $850-$950 for Kingpin 1080 Ti.
I agree, I was figuring $900 ish myself.
Is there actually 12 memory chips ? Like the titan?
From another comment:
One of those thermal pads is covering a blank spot on the board. All the 1080 Tis we've worked with are doing this now -- the companies still stick a pad on each VRAM location even when it's not used. That could be to prevent someone screwing up in the factory (e.g. skipping the wrong spot) or could be to prevent shorts/contact with metal where you don't want it.
I've seen a few of them with 11 filled and 1 blank. The ones where they used the same PCB as the Titan XP.
Gamers Nexus I have a strix 1080ti and as it is watercooled I did remove the cooler and saw that the empty place was covered also but on this picture it seemed that there was something under the pad, that's why I was asking...
But can it run Cry-oh, wait never mind.
Speaking about Kingpin cards. Anyone think getting a 980ti kingpin is worth $320?
No - Sent from Internet Explorer ! :)
best 1080ti
Ia ser melhor se tivesse 3 conectores de 8 pinos kkkkkkkkkkkkkk
kakaakak ai seria um mito branco kakakaka
debatable the 1080 ti hof might be better, it has a 19 phase vrm, and similar cooling.
Brian Khanzadeh
nope, the kingpin lineup always destroyed every other custom design yet
not tru the 980 ti hof was way better than the 980 ti kingpin
Isn't there one GDDR5X chip too much?
One of those thermal pads is covering a blank spot on the board. All the 1080 Tis we've worked with are doing this now -- the companies still stick a pad on each VRAM location even when it's not used. That could be to prevent someone screwing up in the factory (e.g. skipping the wrong spot) or could be to prevent shorts/contact with metal where you don't want it.
It's test ES card, it had 12GB put on before NV decided to make it 11GB :)
or is this one of your (xDevs) super secret surprises to make us overclockers happy, 12gb Pascal Kingpin ?
Well they have accidentally forgotten the thermal pads in the past, so may have automated their placement so it could never happen again. :p
they better exist because of the crazy dumb asking price
can i extend my pcie 6 pin to 2x 8pins power for 2 gpu? (its a 600w 80+ silver)
This one vs ASUS RoG Posiedon Platinum 1080 Ti?
the Poseidon is the same PCB as the STRIX
Actually Hardcore Overclocking Better chips could be picked for them tho.
Hey im sorry i dontt know if its me or you guys but i feel lithe these videos are far too long for me the consumer, what value does a 30 minuite video add to this chanel this could be summed up in 10 or 15 minuites
Once again, who the hell are these videos for. You use technical terms that nobody except hardware engineers know, and then you try to explain it like you're talking to an ignorant lamen. It's too technical for 99.9%+ of even hardcore gamers, and yet it's too simplistic and dumbed down to be useful for anyone who has any chance of knowing what the hell you're talking about.
good! Unsub now!
This guy has got to STOP making these videos. His calculations are
CONSISTENTLY incorrect. He is NOT an electrical engineer and has no
understanding of semiconductor operations. At 9:30
he states that this is the most efficient VRM of any 1080TI and can do
220A with 21 watts heat output yet in the MSI 1080TI Gaming X video
(posted a months BEFORE this one) he states that the msi card's VRM has
the same efficiency of the base model Founders Edition cards at 250A
with 15 watts heat output. So according to his calculations the MSI, or
even a base model founders edition cards have SIGNIFICANTLY higher
efficiency. Over 30% more efficient than this EVGA. According to him,
cards with fewer and higher resistance mosfets are 30% MORE efficient
than this VRM. He needs to STOP making these videos or get an education
in electrical engineering.